Ann: Yeah, and like Matthew Brooks: buddy. yeah, it's the dog there. Ann: What'd you say, buddy? Because I'm white. the dog is here and she's like whining and I Hi everybody. Welcome. Matthew Brooks: Hahaha Ann: Welcome to the chaos Matthew Brooks: Hi. Ann: of what is currently life as a therapist and human, as are most of our shows. And today we will be we will be reviewing why I we had to cancel last week. But also I'm just gonna I don't know if anybody else takes their pets or whate you've taken your dogs to the office once or twice. Right? Matthew Brooks: Literally once or twice. I think twice and my dog hated Ann: Yeah. Matthew Brooks: it. Ann: So I bring her and pretty often and I've like have it cleared with the clients that are cool with it. There's some that aren't we she doesn't come those days. she won't go to the bathroom at the office. She's like the weirdest Matthew Brooks: Hmm. Ann: dog. I think because she came from the Amish farm and she was like just tied up outside so she wasn't she goes outside and at my house she won't she won't go to the bathroom on a leash. She has to like tied up. Someone's gonna message and Matthew Brooks: Hmm. Ann: be like, Did you take her to dog training? And I'm gonna be like, sure. I don't have time. But we're Matthew Brooks: You Ann: she does fine. We she just gets tied up to Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: go to the bathroom. She goes back inside, like whatever. But she won't go to the bathroom here, but she'll come and like beg. Matthew Brooks: Mmm. Ann: Like, I'm like, you have to go and then I'll go walk her around. Like all of Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: my business neighbors probably just see me like pacing with this dog for the fifteen minutes or like Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: the three seconds you have between sessions and she's just like, Absolutely not. Matthew Brooks: Have you tried just tying her up at the office? Ann: No, I'm so nervous because the road's so busy. You remember when she You remember when she just wandered out and my life that day. I was like Matthew Brooks: No, I get that. But even like, like tying her up and then... Yeah. Stop everything, call the police. Ann: St st I did. Dinah is our family's lifeline. Like we need her. I need her. She is my th my therapy dog. She is my child's. And so well no, I can I would not tie her up with this busy road. I would not do that. My house I can tie her up. It's a like she doesn't ever go anywhere, but she also has nowhere to go. So I'd be too nervous here. Matthew Brooks: Yes. Well, I just meant tying her up while you're standing there so she can go to the bathroom and then bring her back in. Ann: No, she's so weird about that too. Like I have to tell the kids I'll put her on the back porch at home. And I have to tell the kids like go inside. Dinah needs her privacy. Cause if somebody's watching her Matthew Brooks: Hahaha! Ann: Cause if somebody's watching her, she like runs to the door. She's like, It's we're hanging out, right? Like she won't go. She needs Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: to be like I mean, it Matthew Brooks: Isolated. Ann: would we would get this dog. But yeah, the day that she escaped the office, I sounded all alarms. Everybody knew in the area. You knew. Matthew Brooks: Yes. Yes. And then the best part is Ann: I was like Matt. You're like Matthew Brooks: you didn't, like you weren't, it wasn't that you weren't responding, but like then I think you had to go into like a session or something. So then everybody for like the next two to three hours are like, you set off this alarm and now you're not responding. Yeah. Ann: Everyone was like, and we're here to help you. Where did you go? which is similar to what happened last week. Maybe there's a trend that I need to focus on. Maybe Matthew Brooks: Mmm, is there a pattern? Ann: maybe it's me. Matthew Brooks: okay, so where should we start on? Well, first of all, you came, you came Ann: So today's today's theme Matthew Brooks: down to DC to visit us and we were going to chat about that. And then everything happened. Ann: my gosh! I did! That did happen. So Matt and I got to hang hang out. Matthew Brooks: Yes. Ann: And it was wonderful. We our kids got to hang out and play. We got to hang out together. We had this whole list of things that we were like, we're gonna accomplish all of this stuff for business. We did nothing. We just hung out and walked around and I saw your office and we took a picture in it and we went and took the kids to see art and we ate food and that's what we did. So Matthew Brooks: Yeah, I think in between there, there was small blips of us talking business stuff, but then all of our kids were like, the adults aren't talking. You talk to us. Like you don't talk to each other. Yeah. Ann: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They're like absolutely not. They got along so well though. My kids do better traveling. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: Everyone's always like, Why are you always on the go with your kids? You guys are and I'm like, It's easier. I don't know why. There's something magical about it, but They do better they Matthew Brooks: yeah, they do great. Yeah, they were amazing. Ann: do better traveling. But I literally showed up at your house like middle of the night, you let me in and I just flopped my kids into a random bed and they were like peace. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: And we just w I was like, that was the easiest thing that's ever happened. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: so Matt and I got to hang out in DC where Matt is and that was great. Matthew Brooks: Hmm Ann: and t tried to talk about all the upcoming things like us being at the conference and our next book and all of the things we have to talk about, but it really didn't happen. So then we just had to talk on the phone. So that was Matthew Brooks: Yes. Yes. Ann: loads of fun. And both of us had a ton of things happen while I was there and then after I left. So Matthew Brooks: Yeah. It was all like, we're all sleeping. We're all just falling asleep, taking naps. Ann: Yeah. Yeah. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: So a big theme of today's episode that I do think is a really important thing to talk about is when the helper needs help, when the therapist needs to ask for help or needs help to navigate through something. And Matt, who is always my helper, but I had to We had to cancel last week for the first time because Matthew Brooks: Mmm. Ann: I unexpectedly had to have my gallbladder removed. Like the the Matthew Brooks: Yes. Ann: day we were supposed to record, and I think maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but I think that this is a good example of how maybe a lot of helping profession people function. And I'm gonna put like Teachers, doctors, medical staff, therapists, like I think we we fall under this umbrella Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: that you were quite literally texting me day that I went to the ER to switch around our recording time and I was just responding her normal Matthew Brooks: Yeah, the best part was, I even saved it, is you posted a video that you were standing on a chair painting. Ann: I did that that day. That happened that day. Matthew Brooks: Yeah, yeah. I saved that and I was like, her gallbladder was exploding while she was standing on a chair on a stool of painting. Ann: In my defense. I do think that I have a r ridiculously high pain tolerance. It has come up before Matthew Brooks: most women do. Ann: in my life where I've it Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: has been questioned. Anne, how did you not know? And I'm like, Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: I felt okay-ish. Like I wasn't saying I was Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: great, but I wasn't falling over. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: And I actually thought that I like pulled a muscle or something. So I was like, I movement, you know, whatever. But yeah Matthew Brooks: My kids are large. Ann: Yeah. Like who knows what I did lifting them? Like Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Ann: I didn't think anything of it. And my kids I didn't think anything of my fever because my kids were sick. And I'm typically not sick. It wasn't until a really good friend of mine was like, wait, you don't have any other symptoms. Like you don't have the runny nose. And I was like, maybe the doctor's right. Maybe there's a concern for infection. And then it was like ding ding ding. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: So anyways, but it it is what we do I was just communicating with you there was no need for me to tell you that I was feeling a little uncomfortable because as far as I was concerned, I was completing my day. Like didn't have to do anything strenuous. We were gonna sit here and record and you had to move the time already. So Matthew Brooks: Yeah, I had a lot of stuff going on with the schedule, then we were figuring that out. Ann: Yeah, so I was like, Cool, we'll move the time and then I did Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: find this humorous after the fact. Cause then I was like, Hey, I'm in the hospital, we have to cancel. And you were like, What? and you were like, Why did you not You Matthew Brooks: Yeah, it was like a record scratch stop. Yeah, I was like, what? Ann: you responded, Why did you not tell me this earlier? with a lot of of Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: exclamation things. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: And I was like, I didn't have to earlier. Like Matthew Brooks: you Ann: it it wasn't on the list earlier. It is now Matthew Brooks: The fire was smaller earlier, now it's burning everything. Ann: on the list. And then you were like and I was like, I'll just make a post that it's cancelled. And you were like, What? I was like, what else am I supposed to do? I'm just sitting here for hours. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: Everybody was like, You're responding to emails and I Yeah, what do you do when you have your zero people sitting there just waiting? And I wasn't super uncomfortable. They just told me that I should be. I was like Matthew Brooks: Did anybody come? Ann: What do you mean? Matthew Brooks: Like, you went to the hospital emergency room, you were sitting there waiting and you're like, I'll just like mess around on my phone and stuff. Did you ask for anybody to come to the hospital to sit with you, to be with you? Okay. Ann: Yes. Well, not until later. Not until I knew that I was staying. Matthew Brooks: Okay, that was hours later. Helping the helper. Ann: Yeah. yeah yeah. But I mean alright. There's several topics Matthew Brooks: You Ann: to talk about here. Because there's being a parent. Like there's the parent hat, the single parent hat, the Matthew Brooks: I was gonna say there's a parent hat and then single mom hat. They're two very Ann: There's a Matthew Brooks: distinct things. Ann: there's yes, like helper hat, like and I think that I think that when you are a parent, but when you also your job is providing a service to people, you do have a list of things, if you're gonna be out, that are priority for you to even relax. Now, if it was like a mur like they like sent me right into surgery, obviously I wouldn't be Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: doing anything. But I, in order for me to be like, okay. I now know the plan that this is gonna be happening. Let me get things in order Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: so that I'm not sitting here stressed out that my kids don't have somebody watching them or whatever. The dog is gonna shit all over my house. Like I Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: had some things I needed to do. So that's what I did. And I also Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: think that there's a level of having worked mental health. Like we talked about this with Matthew Brooks: yeah. Ann: previous guests, but also together. When in when in crisis we're eerily chill. Now when not in crisis. Matthew Brooks: Which literally, yeah, I literally was talking about that with my therapist on Friday when I was talking with them because there's stuff going on in my life. I can't necessarily reveal right now, but I was talking with them about how like my partner is kind of freaking out. Right. And they will admit they are freaking out. Right. But I am. good vibes. Like I am making decisions, I am bing bang boom, like this is jazz, you know, and I'm just like really hitting every note and I like was talking about that my therapist was even like, that seems to be something there, Matt. What is that? And I was like, you. Yeah, I'm like, quiet, you stop. Yeah. Ann: Like are you having a trauma response? And stop talking. And so this is something to I would love to talk about this with other therapists too. I really would. Because you and I are so similar and I kind of know your head. But Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: Is the trauma response sometimes I even feel like is too heavy, but is the conditioned response because of personal history or because we have worked in so many settings that that's the norm? So Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Ann: when things are escalated, we are conditioned to respond and it for good reason, conditioned to respond like Matthew Brooks: Hmm? Ann: cool, calm, collected. Is it a combination? Because I will tell you that in when things are crazy, I am much more calm, organized, whatever. And I've talked, don't worry, everybody. I've talked about it with my therapist, with several therapists. We know we're good. But Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Ann: like, is my history why I thrive in this profession? Or Do I thrive because I have worked in so many settings that are super acute? And so now that is a norm. And I mean, let's all be honest, it's some sort of combination like it is for most of us. and I've done the work to be aware of that, which is the important piece. But it's Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: still your automatic response when you are in this field, when you are Matthew Brooks: yeah. Ann: used to that. My automatic response was like, Okay, these are the things that gotta get checked off. This is what I've gotta do. Now You I could be standing in my kitchen on a random Tuesday where nothing's going wrong and the coffee pot like overflows and I'm like, What the like Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: This is a complete inconvenience. I'm gonna lose my shit. And it's like, what is wrong with me? Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Ann: whereas I mean it's just different scenarios and I think that that is a helper brain. And I don't I it's a therapist brain, but it's it's a helping profession brain. Matthew Brooks: Yeah, and I think you talked about like you... Yeah. Ann: And so I was and you often get that. Like I got that at the hospital. They were like, You're really calm and I was like, I Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: feel like I need to share. I'm like, Yeah. I've seen some Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Ann: things. Matthew Brooks: Yeah, I mean, and I think there is a unspoken language when you do like, like even when I, you know, we've talked about it, but I hit my head and like knocked myself out, went on the ambulance. And Ann: yeah, yeah. Matthew Brooks: once I got to the hospital, I was like, like I'm a therapist and like I've worked and stuff, I've seen stuff and they're like, okay, we got him. Like discount on everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ann: Or even if you share like, yeah, I've worked in a I've worked yeah. Worked in a hospital setting. Like I I remember sharing that with them. I was I get weird like I was weird with the anesthesia, like waking up. Took me a Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: while and I was like cracking jokes. I was like, You guys just have no idea how long I need to nap. Like that's why and they were like, ha Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: ha ha but Matthew Brooks: Yeah. But then like Janice, who's been there forever, is like smoking a cigarette and be like, Ann: Yeah. Matthew Brooks: yes, I got you. Ann: Yeah. She's like just is totally fine. But even just sharing Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: like yeah, I familiar with the hospital setting, blah blah blah, Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: shared that, like and then everybody kinda like okay, I get it. You're fine. It is, it is a it's an unspoken Matthew Brooks: Yeah. okay. Yeah. Ann: language. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: this is a funny story. I was in grad school and my car caught on fire while I was driving it. Matthew Brooks: Okay Ann: promise this is related. a piss I hadn't changed the oil in like a million years and a piston shot out of it, I guess. And it like caught a fire and I pulled over. And I was getting a new car the next day. Like lined up. This Matthew Brooks: Nice. Ann: car that I was driving was already shit. We knew it was done. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: Like drove it to the ground. Which is why I wasn't doing anything to it. Matthew Brooks: Yeah, literally. Ann: Yeah. So the police came. I got out the car, I got my stuff, Matthew Brooks: Okay. Ann: and the police came and I got into their car and the c the police officer was like, I'm gonna review this with you. If your car catches on fire while you're driving it, it's an accident and it's your fault. If it catches on fire after you pull over, it's an accident, it's not your fault. And he's like, When did your car catch on fire? And I was like, After I pulled over. B. It's the correct answer. And he was like, Yes. And then we were laughing together and Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: I get in the police car with all of my things and he's like, You went back to the car to get your stuff out? Do you know you're not supposed to go near a burning car? And I was like, It wasn't. Remember what we talked about? Like it wasn't on fire yet. And we were cracking jokes. Clearly he knew it was, 'cause he just had Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ann: general knowledge of cars. Matthew Brooks: just looking at the thing. Ann: And he's like, You seem and he's like, You seem really calm for your car just catching on fire and us having to leave it here on the side of the road. And I was like I remem I'll remember my spot response forever because I was like, Well, I'm getting a new one tomorrow And he goes, haha. I guess that's fine. And Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: then I shared you know, we were talking and I Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: shared with him where I was working I was I was at Seton Hill at the time for grad school and I was working Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: at a like a community based center. Obviously the Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: police officers were familiar with and I was like, like yeah I'm in grad school going to grad school for art therapy therapy I work at this center and he he literally was like like it clicked that it was like you do that Matthew Brooks: Yeah, it just all clicked. Yeah. Ann: So that is why you're chill. Now again, if he if Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: that same officer would have ran into me at the coffee shop and they didn't have my order on a day that I really wanted my coffee, he would not have pinned me for a chill person. But it's just like when in crisis, we're calm. It's a weird thing. Matthew Brooks: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Did I tell you? So I had a similar experience without nothing with fire, right? But at the place I used to live in the area, this was when my child was six months old. Right? So it was still night feedings. I was up like in the living room feeding the baby and it had to be like midnight. Right. And where are it was like a neighborhood street near a busy highway kind of area. And. we heard a commotion and there was like one of those big diesel pickup trucks, like lifted kits, all the whole thing. And I was like, what is going on? And there's some screaming and banging around and everything. And I was like, so I'm like holding the baby and I'm like peering through the blinds. You know, I'm like, what's like, what's going on? And then I saw, cause we are on a hill, right? And then I saw two people walking down to investigate like what was going on while this truck just sped off into the night. And there was a woman that was down there. And you know, then this woman was screaming and everything. And I was like, what is happening? So then I go and wake up the Mrs. And I take the baby. I'm going outside, you know, and I go outside. Lo and behold, in the lake. We lived closer to an airport, I will say, in a general business-y area. So there was, of course, a strip club. And I Ann: yeah. Matthew Brooks: walked down, and this woman was thrown through a fence. Ann: You have so many stories about living near this strip club. Matthew Brooks: yeah. It was always adventurous, right? But this woman got, I guess, met a man in the strip club, and she was a stripper. Did I tell this? Yeah. Ann: You told you talked about this. Yes. Yes. Matthew Brooks: So then I was like super calm walking down and then these other two people were like, why are you so calm? Because I took care of it. I just got her in a car, like a cab and got her home. Ann: You and the other thing the other thing is hilarious is like you were like, Yeah, I gotta get out there Matthew Brooks: Yeah, I gotta get out there. I gotta help. Ann: I need I need to be part of this. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: so okay. Couple things popped into my head while you were telling that story but then when I was also talking about the things that we do that don't make any sense and how we sh therapists and helpers' brains should be studied. So we're and again, I'm making a jump, but I promise to circle back. We're gonna be at the conference, right? We're gonna be at the Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: American Art Therapy Conference in Charlotte in October. What? Fourteenth? Whatever. Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: And it is our job to like walk around. Not like it's our job to like amp people up talk about their experiences at the conference, get Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: like footage of like for people to get pumped about the conference, all this stuff. And we get to like interview and talk people and we're gonna be posting this opportunity for people to be a guest on the show while we're there soon. Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: But which was delayed everybody because I had to have my gallbladder taken out. everyone listening. But I'm like up with a list in my head of things that I would love to ask other therapists at conference. One of them being Matthew Brooks: yes. Ann: this crisis stuff. Because like I was saying earlier, and again I think we talked about it with Dave when he was a guest. We've had it we've had to talk about it more. Like there is something about Us therapists and the makeup that we have to not only get into this field, but then the experiences that we have working in the settings that we do pre-private practice, which we were talking about with Mary Ellen. Mary Ellen. We were talking Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: about with her how like it's really important that you do work those tough jobs before you go into private practice. What is it about that makeup that makes us respond differently in crises or have this kind of different outlook. And is it everybody? Because I don't Matthew Brooks: Is it everybody? Ann: have any is it all therapists. I don't have I'm thinking through all my therapist friends, like my people people, not even extended. But I think that I would man, I would have a dream team that I would call up in Matthew Brooks: yeah. Ann: If I was going into the most ridiculous, like aliens invaded Armageddon, I mean I probably have Around ten people and they are all professionals that I've worked with in the past that I'd be like, yeah, we'd handle that shit. So what is it? I wanna I want maybe that's something or Matthew Brooks: Yeah, we'd handle that shit and or how, well, how many of them would run into the apocalyptic fire that is going on first, like when that bomb drops. And it's like, well, I'm just going to go. Ann: I mean, I just just for those of you that are listening Yeah. I'm out. Just for those listening that are my near and dear loved people that I haven't worked with in the past, you would be there too. I just know who the team would be to handle shit and who I would be like Matthew Brooks: The captains would be, yeah. Ann: protecting and who I'm just like I think about working in that in like an RTF or an inpatient where you and I were and how you just have this unspoken language when shit goes down. And that's absolutely applied to our personal lives. And I wanted to I'm maybe at the conference so I need to ask people I don't know, is this allowed? Someone the co people Matthew Brooks: That would be very good questions. Ann: are Add's probably listening, like, we talk about that. asking people like, you know, not only what Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Why are you the way that you are? Ann: are you getting o out of the conference, but like What are some similarities in therapists that you're experiencing as far as crises go? Maybe that's something that people need to like present on or talk about, or we all just need to get together at the end of the end of the conference party and be like Alright, let's assemble our team. Therapists unite, Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: Power Rangers. Wait, who was the Earth Wind? What are those people? Matthew Brooks: Captain Planet. Ann: Captain Planet. That's who our therapists would be. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: We wouldn't be Power Rangers. We would be Captain Planet. Matthew Brooks: I mean, either Power Rangers because there's colors. I mean, Captain Planet had colors too. feel like there needs to be like a color team. Ooh, I don't, maybe as a white man I shouldn't be saying that. Ann: Yeah, we would definitely What superhero? What superheroes would our therapists be more aligned with like what group? I think Captain Planet. Is Ferd Ferd Matthew Brooks: I mean if you really want to get nerdy about it. Ann: Golly isn't a superhero group? Matthew Brooks: Yeah, it would be the Lantern Corps because that's connected to emotions Ann: I don't know what that is. Matthew Brooks: and colors. So every power is connected to a Ann: What's Matthew Brooks: cosmic spectrum of color. so, Ann: I tapped into your thing, Matt. What Matthew Brooks: yeah. Ann: Like actually I've thought about this. Matthew Brooks: Actually, yeah, so it would be the Lantern Corps. Ann: What's the lantern cord? Do I not know? Matthew Brooks: It's from like Batman side of stuff, not Marvel, X-Men side of stuff. Ann: I do love I love Batman, but that's where it ends. I just know that I like Batman. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. So there's like Batman, Superman, and then there's a guy called Green Lantern. And he's green, obviously. Ann: Yeah, I know Green Lantern. I thought he was bad. Matthew Brooks: No, he's good. It was a bad movie that Ryan Reynolds was in, but yeah. Green Lantern Ann: Wait. Matthew Brooks: is your strength comes from your will, like your willpower and how you feel. But then there's also red, Ann: I'm in. Matthew Brooks: which comes from anger. Yellow comes from fear. Blue comes from, yeah. Ann: So there's a whole lantern Matthew Brooks: Yeah. That's the whole thing. Ann: Well, you're the expert you're the whole thing. And you're the expert on it, and so that's I guess what our therapists would be. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: But maybe okay. Again, randomness, but maybe we need to add that to the list of things we're asking therapists at the conference. What superhero would you be and why? my gosh, Matt, that's your favorite thing. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. It is my favorite thing. Ann: You we need to come up with a list of are you writing this down 'cause I'll forget. We need to come up with a list Matthew Brooks: I write a ton. Ann: of of like prompts for to ask people at the conference. Just like fun. I don't know if this is allowed, people. We might Matthew Brooks: Okay. List. Ann: not be doing this. But Matthew Brooks: We can do whatever we want. Ann: Who are you as superhero and why? Who would be on your superhero team? Bring them over for our next recording. my gosh, wouldn't it be great if we could have everybody make make go to the art space, which is the assemble your team. Matthew Brooks: Yeah, Assemble your team, yeah. Ann: The art space at the conference is always so wonderful. That is where I always connect with somebody and end up chatting for like hours with somebody that I haven't talked to forever while we're like making something. But maybe we can give P like a Go to the open art area, make your superhero costume. We'll see you at the next Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Well, and I mean, this could be something because I did this in grad school with my cohort and there was one that was very significant, but it was like. a found object, what was it called? Like found object round robin or something where it was like you made, like we made bowls, right? Like a container. And then there was a found object to describe yourself. And then you shifted one to the left around the table with like your cohort. So everybody puts something in your bowl, right? To describe how they like perceive you or how they are connected with you. Right. And so then we all. at the end we all concluded with our vessel and the one came from a person who yeah I've chatted with and I was friendly with in my cohort and everything but this person at that point in time, lover to death, was a little bit more closed off not as like connecty to people but then they're like I like I saw there was a little like bean like a dried bean that was in my thing and I was like, what is this? You know, and they raised their hand and they're like, that's because like, I feel like what I see in you is you are helping me grow and you're planting the seed on like how we are connecting. And I was like, like this kid, was so significant Ann: Hmm. Matthew Brooks: coming from this person who was so like closed off to people. And I was like, my Ann: Wait. Matthew Brooks: God, I didn't even know that. Yeah, so was like one of those. Yeah. Ann: so many questions. So first of all, that's an amazing Prompt. I'm Matthew Brooks: Yeah, yeah, it was great. Ann: guessing that was it I'm guessing that was a Dana class. Matthew Brooks: I think it was, yeah. Yeah, I think it was a Dana class. Ann: Or no. Yeah. also she just retired. We love Dana so much. Yeah, that was a Dana thing. it was for sure a Dana thing. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah, because it was like a studio class, I think. It was internship Ann: And or Danny. Matthew Brooks: one, I think. Yeah. One of the internship. Ann: might have been nanny. Matthew Brooks: Yeah, it might have been Danny. It was great. Ann: Yeah. Both wonderful humans, but that's so good. Do I know this person that put the bean in? Did they have an art show at my office? Matthew Brooks: They may have. no. Because they were Ann: okay. Matthew Brooks: a year after me. Yes. Ann: okay. I was like that would be so sweet. Anyways, anyway. Art therapy. Small world. Big group small world. Matthew Brooks: I know, Yeah. Ann: no, I love that. wouldn't it be so cool for Matthew Brooks: It was great. So it's like. Ann: us to do something art related at Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: the conference? How do we do that? We're just coming up with ideas. We don't know. We don't know what we're doing. Matthew Brooks: Well, that's where I was thinking with like with the superhero like art therapist stuff is like if you would assemble your team Right? I think it would be really fun to create something where it is like people who are picking their team is like, I'm picking you and my team because I think your value and like who you are as a person would be vital to me in this connection that we have. Like you're giving them like, would give you this, Ann: Like your little vessel thing. Matthew Brooks: like you're my Superman because you are the aspects of Superman in this way and you are my Batman in this way. Right? So it's like if they would, it doesn't even have to be superheroes, but it could be that object stuff, right? And it's like, this is what you represent. And you're assembling your team and picking out. then it's you know, spreading where everybody's just giving each other things. Yeah. We're cooking with something here. Ann: We're mentally working on it. Something's gonna happen. Do do not be shocked if we hand you if you hate if we hand you something random when we are walking around the conference talking to you about the conference and our therapy. Don't be shocked. If we hand you random found objects. Sparkles, do we need do we need gems? Do we need gems? Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. I think at an art therapist conference, at an art therapist conference, no one will be shocked if they're handed random stuff. They'll be like, what is this metaphor for? Ann: my gosh. I love that I love that so much like art school, when it's like you're not shocked by walking past anything, like Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: I'll get ba I'll get back to that. That is what the art therapy conference is like. Like it's always like, yeah, that's happening in the corner. Totally normal thing. Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Ann: So yeah, we need gems. We need we we need some things. We need so many things. Matthew Brooks: We need like this Seton Hill art therapy found object cabinet. Like we need to bring that. Ann: my gosh. My found I think every program probably has a found object cabinet. I love found objects. I love I have a found object Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Ann: cabinet in my office. Mine I think was probably different than yours. Found object cabinet. Matthew Brooks: yeah, because like we were moving, we are in the middle of the new building. So like my first year too, I think first two years was at that random building in Greensburg, like in downtown. Ann: We were on campus. Matthew Brooks: Yeah, you guys were on campus. I was not. We were like the the Lost Boys. Ann: Yeah. We were on campus for the majority of it. Well we moved off at the we moved off at the very end. But we were on campus for a lot. But anyways. Blah blah blah. Now we have a plan. We're gonna be doing we're gonna be incorporating art. Yeah of course. Duh. Matthew Brooks: Yeah, of course we are, right? Ann: what I was talking about with art school so I went to my undergrad I went to Elfred University, which is an art school. Like well, they're Matthew Brooks: Yes. Ann: art and engineering, ceramics, whatever. But art is huge there. and so it was very, very normal. Like they would do shows. They would do senior shows, but they would also do like grad shows. And for that weekend, the entire campus was like random art installations, some live humans. Like I remember there was a friend of mine Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: and it was actually such a cool concept. She made a dress completely out of wax and attached, Matthew Brooks: that's cool. Ann: made all of made all of these wax balls that she had people like put their burdens in, and then she Matthew Brooks: Mmm. Ann: walked around upstate New York in the middle of fucking winter with like a wax dress. And like through Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: town and the town people were d didn't even blink an eye. They were like, there's an art student. Like totally Matthew Brooks: Yep. Yeah. Ann: totally normal thing. And there Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: was one day that I walked into the student center and somebody had like passed a whole like death scene. Like Matthew Brooks: Nice. Ann: g to the T, like movie level, like Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: makeup And everybody was just walking in, like going to get their chicken finger subs. Cause it was like clearly Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: somebody's doing an art project, not that there was a mass murder here. Matthew Brooks: Yeah, yeah. Ann: and it was like multiple people and they were like t but that was art school. So I feel like that moved into Matthew Brooks: Yeah, I feel like with with those college campuses though, like I'm not saying it but like there could be a mass murder and then everybody mistake ins it as An art thing for a couple hours Yeah You're like, this is weird wait Ann: I feel like there would be other signs. Like people you get close. Yeah. But like, yeah, we were wait. We've talked about this. Another level of how therapists and helpers respond in crisis. And then you add in creatives. Like you add in the Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: art piece of how weird Matthew Brooks: Yeah, it's a special breed. Ann: Of how weird our creative brains are and like the things Matthew Brooks: the end. Ann: that we accept are like outside concepts. It's like Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. It's like those, it's like the dogs who Ann: it's a shocker when we realize how normal people function. Matthew Brooks: have been bred too much, you know? Like that's our Ann: Yeah. Matthew Brooks: therapist. We're like, whoa, that's a really weird dog. You got a whole bunch of mixes in there. Yeah. Yeah. Ann: We're too far in. You got way too in there. You got way too specific. And now you got this. my gosh, that's hilarious. So anyways, I Matthew Brooks: Well, well, I think also like you brought in the the idea of like helper occup- like occupations people are in phase, but I think it is the both where it is like there is a certain personality that gravitates towards the helping professions. And there is a certain personality mixed with trauma that goes towards more specific helping professions, right? So I think we're all Ann: So I Matthew Brooks: built, we're all wired a little bit the same. Ann: Agreed, but I would I think that there's obviously and there's everybody has shared opinions on this, but I'm not necessarily fully in the camp that all therapists have experienced their own significant trauma. I Matthew Brooks: true. Ann: think that there's a lot of really, really s I mean like every human has experienced some shit. We've lived this long. And to get to the point where you have your license and you're practicing, you're at least of a certain age that some shit has happened to you. So like I mean shit happens to us before we're in school. So anyways, blah blah blah blah blah. I'm not saying ever we're trauma free or negative experience Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: free. But I don't think that everybody is everybody that becomes a therapist is deeply impacted and that's why they become a therapist. I think that that is a Matthew Brooks: No. Yeah. Ann: of an opinion that has some backing. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: I think that that is but I but I but I don't think that that's always the case. And I think that a lot of but I think that that's why our programs are That's why it's so important to go to a licensed professional. somebody who has gone to Matthew Brooks: Absolutely. Ann: an accredited program. Obviously they've gotten to the licensed professional. And again, that's why we're such a huge advocate as far as art therapy goes, like make sure that you're going to a board certified art therapist. It's the same process Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: as somebody going through licensed counseling profession. Like because the programs are designed. That is what grad school is. For you to be able to recognize your shit. Own your shit, work through your shit so that Matthew Brooks: process it. Yeah. Ann: you know your shit so that you can pr process other people's shit. Like in a nutshell. That's what it is. And it's intense. But I don't think everybody goes into it like super heavy. I do think, kind of like what Mary Ellen was saying, the experience that you have after shapes that certain characteristic Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: or breed that we all have to get in there in the first place to like separate out what kind of therapist you're gonna be. And I think you and I Matthew Brooks: absolutely. Yeah. Ann: You and I are similar and kind of in this podcast cater to or connect with a lot of people that also work in those super acute settings. Like we Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Ann: were that branch, but Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: the other branches can be very strong and not necessarily as They're not necessarily flies to a crisis. Matthew Brooks: Yeah, and I think it is a skill set or like I said personality like I could not Feel confident or comfortable in working in an addictions setting Right like that is not my skill set that like I was not trained. Yeah, so like I I don't think I could I could do it Ann: We've never talked about this. Have we talked about our no go's? Matthew Brooks: No, that's a good episode for next time too our no-goes Ann: So you're you you're Matthew Brooks: I'm gonna write that down. Ann: you're like I think everybody knows kind of like specialties, maybe. I don't know. But yeah, like you're you're not an addictions guy. You would refer out. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Even some of the ones that like if insurance is like, there's this person who's looking for help with addictions and stuff. I was like, I'm not going to take that one. Ann: Additions is so tough. Matthew Brooks: It's so tough and there are personalities that work very well in that and I'm not one of them, right? So it is like that filtering, like you said, with, you know, referencing Mary Ellen. So maybe that's the thing we'll talk about next time. Okay. Ann: Yeah. On the episode we're recording. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Tomorrow. All right, guys. Thank Ann: Tomorrow. No. You're getting all men. Matthew Brooks: you so much. We got to wrap up. Ann: Yeah. Big chat today. We're getting wrapped up. stay tuned. We don't really have any announcements except for sign up and go to the conference so you can hang out with us. Matthew Brooks: Yeah, you'll be seeing the announcement for the like, come find us at the conference and say the magic, say the secret word. Ann: yeah, I'm gonna post I'm gonna now that I'm back, I'm alive. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Ann: Anne is marked safe and alive. I will post that to tomorrow soon. Matthew Brooks: Yeah, she may not hug you because she'll be in pain. Ann: Well, not right now. At the conference I'll hug everybody. Just a heads up. Hugger. I like to hug Matthew Brooks: Yeah, that's what I was saying is at the conference you may be recovered by that point. Ann: I will be. And I will be hugging you if you are okay with it. So, okay. Bye everybody. Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Okay. Bye.