Ann: That's nice color shirt. I like that color shirt. It matches the color, the top of this painting.

Matthew Brooks: Sure. ⁓ thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I think I think this might be, you know, my color. I feel like I'm in autumn, but I feel like this

Ann: Like wait, are you talking about the the color matching? What's that called? Hi everybody, we're just jumping in. wait, what is that called? When everybody was talking about it for so long, you can go see somebody and figure out what your best colors to wear are. We're not we're not well versed in this, but it exists.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah, I forget what it's called. But I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

Ann: sure someone can tell me. okay. And Matt just said he's an autumn. Which I don't know what I don't know I feel like I'm an autumn personality.

Matthew Brooks: I mean I'm looking it up right now too, so Yeah. Undertone? Is it undertone?

Ann: No, I think that's just a word. Is that what it's called? No, you like go see somebody. People do this for a liv

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah, and then they put like a cloth on you and they flip it around.

Ann: Yeah, and it's like a lot of money. Well, whatever blue is like a dark blue is mine, I just know that. But I never wear it.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. No, you just wear black.

Ann: I just wear black all the time. But I tell Wait, I have two funny stories with that because we are gonna talk a little bit about like therapist horror stories, like the things that clients come to us from other like that share that they experienced in other therapies or whatever. But this is just a funny one. I had a kid, I might have even mentioned this report for my kid one day be like, Are you depressed?

Matthew Brooks: Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.

Ann: I just snorted. And I was like, I don't think so at this moment. Like why? Maybe should I maybe I need to explore this? Why do you think that? And they were like, Well you're always you always wear black. And I was like,

Matthew Brooks: Maybe Yeah. Mm.

Ann: So that really doesn't have to do with my mood, maybe a little bit of my personality, but mainly because if I buy everything in black, everything I don't really have to think about what I'm wearing. I don't have to I is the laundry done? Maybe. Doesn't matter. Whatever's clean will match. Because it's all black. ⁓ or various sh like

Matthew Brooks: Yeah.

Ann: Shades of black. Which is so funny because I do love color and fill my life with c but I just always wear black. And it's really just because of ease. It's just convenient. I I was thinking about this. I was thinking about you and me this morning, Matt, when I was driving to work. And I was thinking about some of the events that we have coming up that I don't think I can share share yet on the podcast, but I was like

Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓

Ann: thinking about what I wear to some of the book events or some of the podcast events that we have coming. I was like, I no longer have the desire we just I just had a book event yesterday and I was like, I no longer have the desire to dress in anything other than comfortable clothes. I've reached the point in my I mean I've always been that way, but like I reached a point in my life that like I don't give a shit what I'm doing. I'm going like I don't care if I'm

Matthew Brooks: Yeah.

Ann: presenting or if I'm going to a ball, there will be yoga pants or yoga shorts involved and a t shirt and a sports bra. Like fuck wearing anything that's uncomfortable.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Put on these heels.

Ann: And then I thought about you because when we had our book launch event, like that dress that I was wearing was super comfortable. But I wanted it immediately off my body at the end. And you looked great and we were matching with like our purple shirts, because my magic is like purple or whatever. But like your shoes were like, yeah, I'm gonna like wear this. And then I was like, we we both do that.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna like everything's comfortable. Maybe I'll just add a little pizzazz.

Ann: Yeah, I loved those shoes. You just owned those. Yeah.

Matthew Brooks: Those are great shoes. I love those shoes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes I do.

Ann: Yes, did. well I guess we can I just touched on a couple of things we're ⁓ talk about today, but I guess I did wanna speak briefly is that we are having some ⁓ book events happening. We just had another one in Pittsburgh yesterday that was just a fun little coffee shop story time reading.

Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm.

Ann: But the book is still happening and out there, Moon Magic and the links on everything if you guys are interested in getting our children's book. And we do have a second one coming out around the holidays, fingers crossed, if we have our shit together. which is big if we have our shit together for it. But it within the year. and that one is

Matthew Brooks: Finger fingers crossed, yeah.

Ann: obviously also written by us, but about a little boy who can't talk, communicates in other ways, uses the art. And so yeah, I think that we have some new listeners recently, according to our stuff that we look at on our site. What's that called?

Matthew Brooks: Stats.

Ann: ⁓ so I wanted to throw that out there again that we do have local Pittsburgh, maybe some local to Matt D C Virginia stuff going on, so keep an eye out for that and keep an eye out for the book link. But

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. And also for anybody who's new here, sorry. For us.

Ann: Sorry. Sorry for the randomness that you are experiencing. But I promise we do like we do like art. We do like art therapy. ⁓ but Matt, you had a story that you were telling me before you we s we started and I was like, Stop, share that. Because we were talk we're gonna talk about

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Buckle up. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Ann: We were like talking therapist Ic or like stories that we hear when we get new clients and stuff from previous therapy and some of them are golden. Matt's most recent one is pretty good.

Matthew Brooks: Yes. feel like I can't I can't remember if I sent it to you or not, but I wanna give them credit. That's why I'm like kind of looking up looking it up. yeah, I saw it, I came across it because now you know, a lot of people are talking about therapy in ⁓ yeah, therapy therapy with Kayla is the the person, the Instagram. But they were talking about yeah, the social media, all that stuff.

Ann: Well, was it you saw it, yeah. You're on the third. The social media.

Matthew Brooks: So they were talking about their therapist at one point told them to get on their hands and knees and roar like a tiger. and that kind of between Anne and I spurned this like conversation of like not therapy horror stories of like a therapist hearing something. from a client or an action a client did, but hearing about other people in the field and how you're like, What?

Ann: What it sparked for me, so like why I was like, wait, pause, let's talk about this in the podcast. Because clearly that account or that person is sharing it, because her getting all fours and roaring like a tiger in therapy was not a fit for her. Like, it would not she was sharing it in like a

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. No. No.

Ann: humorous but also what the fuck kind of way of like this is something that happened to me. Now another individual in therapy might wanna do that. Which is so crazy about the work that we do bec and which is so crazy why it it w what it's like to be a therapist because ninety percent of the stories that I think well fifty.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah.

Ann: I don't know, whatever. A a percentage of the stories that I hear that I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, that does sound awful is just because the th I feel like the other therapist wasn't reading the client well. ⁓ not because it's well, sometimes it's ridiculous, but not because like it just wasn't a good fit. Like if I walked into first session with a therapist and they were like, All right, we're gonna do an exercise, be a zebra, I would be like, What is happening? We don't match.

Matthew Brooks: Yes, yes. Yeah.

Ann: Like maybe in three weeks when you get to know my weird, I would find that funny and we would be zebras. Probably not. But like somebody else, that could be a thing. I don't know. Why'd I come up with zebra? That's the worst animal to be. What do they even do? They're just angry.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. How about this? Make the sound of a zebra, Anne.

Ann: It's a weird sound, isn't it? Don't they like not even sound like horses? No.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. They like like squeak or something. It's like a high pitched squeal. It is.

Ann: Have you Have you Have you ever heard a giraffe sound? Because I have children, we went down a path of listening to my ex-sister-in-law or sister in law went down a path of listening to animal sounds once and we were like what have you ever heard an aardvark?

Matthew Brooks: Yes. Yeah. Yes. And the the reason why is because my kiddo has like a book and it's like the Ardvark sounds like. And then it like does the real sound effect and we're like, whoa.

Ann: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, anyways, wow, tangent. Again, welcome everybody. ⁓ if somebody if I walk into a session, someone was be like, What's your s I think that I actually this would be I I think this is your spirit animal. Make the noise. I'd be like, I gotta go. I haven't finished my coffee yet. Like, I'm not ready. But for some people they might be super into that, but it's like about reading your client. ⁓ and sometimes it's just ridiculous. But clearly therapy with Kayla was read wrong or had a story about some read wrong 'cause she didn't want to do that. And then you there that's not a match. I had

Matthew Brooks: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. I

Ann: I had somebody ⁓ just recently who I've seen for years, like I've they've been a a long term client for a while, share a story with me then they were like, I can't believe I've never told you this. And I was like, Yeah, they had a previous therapist who was

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Mm.

Ann: fundraising for something for their personal life and was asking clients and set like it was it was occupying a the majority of the session. and they felt obligated to to be donating because it was their therapist and I was like, ooh that like that I don't like. But the things that happen are kind of crazy.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. ⁓ yeah, like I've had especially the intakes, I'd be like, okay, you've had if you've had therapy in the past, what was working for you with the previous therapist so that I can match and complement it and and see if we can go in that direction? And what were some of the things that didn't work for you? And that's kind of always opening the door for like some some wild things. They're like, ⁓ yeah, they used to eat lunch during our session And I'm like You mean like just like share a snack with you? It's like, no, they would bring their lunch in and just eat their lunch while while, you know, I was sobbing. And I was just like, ⁓ this is not sharing of something or like you know, even working with like kids and teens, like cooking something, sometimes like we would do different activities like that. No, it was just they were just having their lunch. And I'm like, Wow

Ann: Have you ever Have you ever eaten with a client?

Matthew Brooks: I've eaten with a client, like, you know, especially with some of the other ⁓ offices I've worked, like we've we would walk down to like the frozen yogurt shop, you know, and different things like that. Yeah, yeah.

Ann: Yeah, yeah. Like in a s like in a kid's like yes setting. I mean like in private practice have you ever eaten with

Matthew Brooks: Not in private practice yet, no. I mean they're snacks, so they'll eat, you know.

Ann: I in yeah, that's what I I have snacks too, so ⁓ my my ⁓ probably ⁓ my gosh, I think it's probably only been once in the entire time I've been in private practice. And it was recently. And I was so I hadn't eaten all day. Like I had back to back to back to back like stuff. And this now. The client, this particular client is a kiddo, always comes in with their dinner. Like we just it's an understood thing.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah.

Ann: But they're also on the go and they come in with whatever and they're eating their dinner. Now their Chick-fil-A or whatever is sitting there as they're like bouncing around and doing art, like whatever. ⁓ and they came in the other day and was like, Hey, I'm so hungry, like do you mind if I eat with you during this session? And I was like, I tip like I I don't do this. This isn't a a me thing.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah.

Ann: And the kid was so excited. They were like, ⁓ my gosh, yes! Like, I want like that's so cool, like what are you having? And I was like bean salad, like I should have planned something cooler. Okay, and they just and they just love that I

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But see, like that is like a discussion, right? Well yeah, that's that discussion. Yeah.

Ann: Well yeah, I yes. It was I wouldn't I wouldn't do it unless I like asked. But I I asked and she was so excited. But I still felt weird doing even though it was that setting because and why is like why? I don't know, but I still felt weird because they're doing their thing that they're used to and eating and bouncing and art and whatever and there's stuff everywhere. But I am always in the position and headspace of like talking, like

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Ann: recognizing, listening, talking, responding. and like I couldn't maybe maybe it's my focus, but I was like, I can't stand that I'm chewing right now. I can't stand it. I can't all I'm hearing. And I so it it I was like I'll never do this again. even if I'm dying 'cause I was that day. I was like, I'm gonna fall over. But

Matthew Brooks: Yeah, your blood sugar is dropping and

Ann: Yeah, it's like I'm gonna pass out, but I'd rather do that than hear myself chew while I'm trying to be present. Like I can't do it. I just can't I cannot do it. But yeah. So but s if it's a discussion, like cool like she was so excited. So

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that part of it too where it is like that that sharing of time or space. But yeah, if somebody's just like, ⁓ hold on my Uber Eats is here. Like, let me go down and get it. Like that's like, Wow, okay. That person's not eating and being vulnerable and you're just chomping away at your salad. Like, that's wild.

Ann: Pause. Let me go get that. I was in a actually this happened to me the other day. It wasn't my therapist appointment. Obviously she's amazing. This was a doctor's appointment. ⁓ because I've been having all these issues with my back. And I was in a office that had like the waiting area was all windows. And before I went in, I was out in the waiting room like filling out all the paperwork or whatever. And there was a there was a like u it was a big building, like a multiple offices. There was an Uber Eats person

Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm.

Ann: that I came up into the waiting room, left, was pacing around like I saw them outside in the windows, like looking, like what door do I even go in? Like they were a lost Uber Eats person. And I was like, that's must be frustrating to be whatever. Blah blah blah. I went into my appointment. The doctor, when I was meeting with the doctor and the nurse, because you know the nurse comes in first and they both come in, whatever.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ann: Somebody came in the door while during my appointment and just knocked and they were both like, That's weird and opened it up and they were like, Doctor da da, your food finally got here.

Matthew Brooks: Ha ha ha.

Ann: And they were like, thank you. Like it was like it must have been a thing that they were like so frustrated or he was so hungry or whatever. And he's like, I'm gonna go grab it. He didn't eat it in front of me, but he left for like two minutes and came back. And I don't imagine it was to pay because maybe 'cause I don't think people do that anymore.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's hilarious. I don't know. I don't order.

Ann: Do people pay at the door anymore? I don't think.

Matthew Brooks: But the other one that I thought of that was like that roaring like a tiger. And this is a it was a crazy experience at the time, but looking back on it and the person who was directing it, love, love, love, love this person. I will say that first. But it is Dana Elmendorf during class.

Ann: I I constantly do.

Matthew Brooks: ⁓ so it was like new baby therapists, like going through the training and everything and it it was talking about like holding space for clients, but when you're going through that, you have to also be vulnerable and hold space too. So we were doing I think it was like art therapy with individuals. I think it's like the the one class. But we were doing ⁓ an art directive. And we are following, I believe it was a like an burn C D, maybe, or even a tape, of Sean McNif.

Ann: There's no way it was escape.

Matthew Brooks: Like she pulled it out of somewhere. She had to go get a very specific like boom box to play this thing. and it was Sean McNif playing his guitar and like doing a guided imagery directive and we had to follow along and whatever was evoking the art, you know, from the guided imagery, we we do it. And it was like him sitting around I guess it was supposed to be like a campfire or something, so you heard like the crackling of the

Ann: ⁓ maybe it was a favorite.

Matthew Brooks: wood and everything and we were doing it all but then like after the guided imagery ended she's Dana was very much like, Okay, let's all make sounds to this image of what you made. What would it sound like and everything and this is us like everybody was self conscious and like they're like, I I don't know. So this was like the like tiger. Like we were all baby therapists, self conscious, like ⁓ this was like first or second ⁓ ⁓ you know, so we're just figuring out. I love this looking back on it because it was like everybody just went like you know, just like real quiet, you know, kind of a thing. And then Dana's like, ⁓ come on, like we we all know each other here. Let's all do it And she's like, We're gonna all do it together on the count of three. So then, you know, she counted one, two, three and everybody kind of just raised their pitch a little bit. So it was like a shh crackle, crackle, crackle kind of a thing. But God bless her. Dana was just like, like she was just going off. And for anybody who knows Dana, they're like, yep, that's her, you know, but it was like we all just started laughing because she just went so over the top that it just like relaxed the entire room. And everybody's like, okay. And then we all started making it. But it was like we weren't ready. We weren't there yet. And then she kind of like opened it up. You have something to say.

Ann: I have something to say. In my in my defense of Dana. Which we both love. ⁓ well yeah, she was teaching you that.

Matthew Brooks: ⁓ yeah, we love Dana. Yeah. She was a it was absolute absolutely a teaching teachable moment, but like when you're in it we're just like, What is this?

Ann: Yeah. I feet ⁓ my gosh. When you're in it, well when you're younger and this is a good topic because when you're younger and you're a therapist

Matthew Brooks: Yeah.

Ann: In any setting there's things you have to get used to. You have to get used to like that parent challenging you first or or overstepping boundaries or you have to get used to I don't know why this one's popping into my head 'cause it's wild. You actually don't have to get used to the this, but like a client threatening you or like I'm I went in there for a second. ⁓

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. ⁓ yeah.

Ann: Or like your own triggers coming up, or even just the conversation about payment. Like there's all these things that you have to face that you weren't even thinking that you would during your trade like school, whatever. But Dana did an amazing job. I mean, that's one example in the most Dana way. And I feel like people probably say this about me too, 'cause I'm

Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm.

Ann: have a personality. But I distinct. but in the most stained away she was like, Okay, I am going to effortlessly make you step outside of your comfort zone because I've done this so much that I don't care. I know that this is going like you're all uncomfortable. Of course you are. I've she's taught that class eighteen thousand times.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah.

Ann: So I'm going to make you uncomfortable and then push you to do the thing that really isn't a big deal. And isn't that kind of the freeing lesson that we all need to learn as therapists? But only takes experience. So in an educational setting, ⁓ making somebody roar like a tiger, you're like, Yeah, that you y I'm forcing you to gain this experience. In the professional setting, it takes so much time.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah.

Ann: To get over some of those humps. And honestly, today, as a 41-year-old human, but also human therapist, if I was standing in and this again might be reflective of my personality, if I was standing in Starbucks with my kid or even with somebody that I was caring for, supporting, whatever. Or just like and someone was like, let's I really just wanna yell right now or I really just wanna I would be like, Okay, that might set it off right now, but like do it. Everybody's gonna ha I'm letting you know everybody's gonna have a reaction. But if that's what you're gonna do, I guess we're gonna do it and then we'll just leave or like or whatever. Or I would even do it or ask

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ann: people to do it. I've I've now become super comfortable with uncomfortable shit. And that's like a weird thing about therapists. But Dana was just in the moment being like, yeah, I don't really care, but you guys have to learn how to do this. You have to learn how to be uncomfortable. And eventually it becomes Yeah, eventually it becomes super comfortable. but also makes us makes us socially

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah, there's no there's no ego. There's no ego. Yeah. And that's the thing, like Dana

Ann: A bunch of weirdos.

Matthew Brooks: ⁓ yeah. For sure. But Dana challenged me in so many ways that I'm so grateful for now, like looking back on it and like really, really stretched me. If there is one person that went like I went through the program with that really s like pushed me and I like when I was in it it was really hard. ⁓ but she yeah, she was an absolute gem with everything.

Ann: In the best way. She does she does so effortlessly though, which is the best thing. ⁓ she's retiring or she has retired.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, 'cause the s squeeure is closing up here, right? Yeah. Huh. Good for her. ⁓ but yeah, that was like I'm like, I think she hates me. And then looking back on her, I like, No, she was just challenging me, right? Yeah.

Ann: Yeah. ⁓ my gosh, no, when her and I met up, I told you whenever we did that, a couple months ago, she I was talking, like Matt and I are doing these things and she goes, My Matt? Our Matt? And I was like, I think so. I don't are you I think he's my Matt. I was your Matt too. but

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Given out of like what the three years of like classes, I was the only male. Like when was the next male? So it really is like my mat, 'cause and everybody would know it was me. Yeah. Yeah.

Ann: Yeah. I don't know. Was there one? Was there one? You're everybody's mat. You're everybody's mad at Seton Hill and at Children's and at Western Psych. Well there was there was males at Western Psych, but not art therapist. That's Dave. But ⁓ he was already there. ⁓

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. And that he was probably the last male that went through that program before me.

Ann: Well he didn't he didn't go to Satan Hill. No, no, no. but anyways I don't I don't even know who's at who the are well, Jenna's at Western Psych right now. Anyways, blah blah blah blah blah. ⁓ We were everybody's boss.

Matthew Brooks: ⁓ he didn't? I thought he did. No. Yeah. Well, I think the the other the other thing that I saw the come up on Instagram and then I sent it to you and I think you posted it was the Yeah, we're all social weirdos, right? Where it is like if you see a therapist like dancing on a table out

Ann: ⁓ yeah, 'cause 'cause I said that we're all socially weirdo. I love that.

Matthew Brooks: they're like, ⁓ wow, they're so crazy or weird and everything and it's like, No, we deal with so much shit that we like really take every ounce of joy and experience it. And I think that, yeah.

Ann: Absolutely. Well, what I loved about that, what it made me think of, is I think that we with experience as a therapist comes the ability to really understand what matters and what doesn't. And how anybody else is perceiving me in public. Now I'm not going around

Matthew Brooks: Uh-huh. Yes.

Ann: being an asshole or I'm not walking around doing something completely unacceptable. But I don't have attachments to that because it doesn't matter. ⁓ like I said, I will never not dress comfortably. I just we through experience of hearing so much heavy shit of so many things that people carry on the day to day. Yeah, I don't care what I'm driving. I don't care how I'm, you know, if I'm letting loose one night.

Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ann: ⁓ or or dancing or if I'm the social butterfly or if I'm having a solo dinner, which I love both. ⁓ but even solo dinners for me turn into somehow being social. But I'm like, ⁓ I'm friends with the waiter. Do you want to hang out later? but yeah you just you're your what you care about or what you see as mattering is

Matthew Brooks: Ha ha ha.

Ann: so different from the perspective of sitting with people's heavy, heavy stuff. Like, it just doesn't matter as much. And I think that that carries into parenting for me. ⁓ I'm not as

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. And No. Mm-hmm.

Ann: I was saying this to a friend the other day 'cause we're planning a trip. My got daughter's going to kindergarten and now I have to think about like school and we're planning a trip and they were like, Well, won't she miss school? And I'm like, I I didn't even think of that. But yeah. Like

Matthew Brooks: Yeah.

Ann: think that that's a big deal. I I don't I don't get hung up on those things. I get hung up on like crazy therapist stuff like does she know our family code word? Or is she does she know that does she know my phone number, address? Does she know how to set boundaries? Not like Yeah, not that Yeah, ⁓ yeah. Yeah. But not like what

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Does she know your first name? Like if she were to get lost, like it's not just mom. Yeah.

Ann: outfit is mad. I don't know. I don't know where I'm going with this, but it's just our perspective is different. And we do. We seem like crazy social creatures, but our weight is different.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Well a and I think the other part of it when we say we don't care, it is not this armor or shield that it's like somebody comes up and be like, I don't like the way you dress, or I don't like the car you drive, or I don't like you as a person. It's not that it's like, ⁓ whatever. It's that we process it so much quicker. We're just like, ⁓ okay, well that's your opinion. Anyways, just moving on because it it it's like it doesn't stick.

Ann: ⁓ yeah, or Let's talk about that for a second though. Isn't that a crazy weight that we carry? Like it's like a blessing and a curse. because the ability to have empathy for people that we don't really like. ⁓

Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm.

Ann: puts us in such interesting positions. And it's and interesting maybe is the perfect word for me to use because I'm genuinely interested. Like I I'm not interested in the fact that I'm trying to pull information from them. Whenever something like that happens where I have an interaction or even casual, like even this guy at frickin' the oil change place the other day got out of his car and was like, I was actually here first. So

Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ann: You need to and I was like, dude, I it's 8 a.m. I didn't see you parked all the way back there. But cool. Be first. And what I do in those moments is like I'm not offended by that at all. I just moved out of the way and laughed. But then my therapist brain is like, that was interesting. Like I would I would never get out of my car. I mean, if I'm having a bad day, I'd be pissed about it, but I'd be pissed in my car. Or I would I don't even know. I'd be like

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, ⁓

Ann: ⁓ they must have thought I wasn't in line. I don't know what I would do. But ⁓ I was like, how interesting that he felt the need to approach me. ⁓ and then we were sitting in that tiny waiting room the whole time together. And I was so intrigued by the fact that he was like

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. I I put that in the category of curious. Yeah. Yeah.

Ann: Just do it like fine reading his paper, like he was older. And then he said goodbye. He's like, Have a good day. And I was like You too, dude, like I wanna follow you. What who what else are you doing today? ⁓ Who I mean like you were angry. Yeah.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, who else are you gonna yell at?

Ann: So I I get intrigued by it. I get interested. I'm like, what ⁓ makes that work? And I don't know, that can sometimes be a flaw in our personal lives. Like well that way, but I really need to understand it. I just need I need to know.

Matthew Brooks: Yes. Yeah. Well and it it also it also Yeah. But it at the same time like that like it's this curiosity, like when things like that happen where we get Like we respond to it and we're like, okay, like you can go ahead of me in line. Sorry, I didn't see you. No big deal. Right? And I was like, You're clearly upset about this. I am not, you know. And then it becomes that like David Attenborough like like watches this male figure goes back to his car and like is angry and you know feathers are f you know, kerfuffled or whatever. And at the same time

Ann: Yeah, also. Sometimes I have.

Matthew Brooks: Because the blessing and curse of this is like we get hyper fixated on like when things are stressful, it's a hundred. You know, and you're just like, ⁓ this is really bad. And the other side of it too is the hyper awareness of everything. Like there have been times where either with the wifey in kiddo I will pick up on something and I'm like, hey guys, ⁓ we gotta leave right now. They're like, Why? What's going on? I like, Don't ask questions, like we're just gonna move from this part of the restaurant to this part of the restaurant. And then, you know, in the midst of the moving, you know, somebody is like fighting at the bar or whatever and they're like, Whoa, how'd you clock that? I'm like, It's a superpower. Like I'm just picking up on vibes and energy anywhere I go. You know, and it's just like, Yep, let's go.

Ann: Yeah. You yes, I do experience that. I get the spidey sense. But you and I differ a little bit in which I find myself underreacting a lot. Not when I'm with my kids, but when I'm by myself.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. If I'm by myself I'm like, ooh, what's going on over there?

Ann: Well, or I'm just like whatever. Like I there could be a immediate threat and I'm like slowly moving through it. And I'm like, this is not the right choice. But I I I underreact.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I ha I have a perfect story for that this for this example. I was living this was at our old place, still in the area, but it was more closer to like a city center. and in this city center there was a gentleman's club because it was right by the airport.

Ann: ⁓ you've told this Yes.

Matthew Brooks: On the on the podcast? ⁓ damn. Okay. But yes, like how these people are like, you just reacted so calmly and I'm like, Yeah. Yeah. It's just like I underreacted to all of that.

Ann: Yeah. Yeah. I've been in I've been in that I've been in those scenarios constantly where it's like this is the ⁓ which again, going back to makes us weird socially sometimes, but like not at the same time because we are we attract the people just as often.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Ann: Like th people also want to be social with us. Sometimes we're listening to their entire story when I'm like, dude, I'm buying eggs.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yep.

Ann: I am. It's a tattooed across your forehead that you're a therapist. I don't I when I was younger, I when people asked me I mean, I'm still very proud of what I do, obviously. If people would ask me, I would be like And now I don't I don't I wait a really long time till they ask me. And then I'm like I'm a therapist. And then I do one of these like

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. What are you gonna say?

Ann: What's happening next? ⁓ But I mean sometimes it's wonderful and I always obviously welcome the conversation. But yeah, we are both good because we're we're good at being social because we're weird, because we have our interpretations way abnormal of every single

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. It it's funny with that when when we say like I'm a therapist because for me and I'm I'm taking a generalization, but it was mainly I would say more when I was living in Pittsburgh than here, but when I said I'm a therapist, they're like, ⁓ like sports therapist?

Ann: ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. That happens to me all the time. Is that a Pittsburgh thing? 'Cause they're all they're always they they assume I'm a physical sometimes they often assume I'm a physical therapist.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. It's Yeah, physical therapists and everything. And I'm like, No, ⁓ like mental health and they're like, like that's a thing, you know, kind of and I'm like, Yeah. Yeah.

Ann: Or it's just an uncomfortable, like, I do get asked often what kind of therapy, and in my brain I'm like, what other kind what are you thinking of? What other kinds of the b the good one? The good kind. ⁓ that does lead me to something, Matt. I asked you for a video last week and you never sent it.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. The best one. Yeah. You did? Shoot. What was the video? That's fine.

Ann: I'm calling you out on the podcast. ⁓ I'm but I'm calling you out I'm calling you out because I wanted to this leads to this and I wanted to share about today. So I'm doing this social media video collab with several art therapists where I reached out to like peeps that I know to start and I was like, I I wanna know how you became a therapist. I wanna know how you became an art therapist and I'm I'm gonna share those soon. So check out social media soon. everybody that I asked immediately was like, Yes, they wanna be a part of it.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah.

Ann: Everybody hasn't sent me their videos 'cause we're all artists. ⁓

Matthew Brooks: And all our therapists have a little bit of ADHD.

Ann: Well, we're definitely all creative, so we're like, look what I started though. Literally right behind me. But look, I'm doing this. I forgot to send you the video. ⁓ You're one of those people, Matt. You haven't sent me the video. ⁓ if you don't, that's okay. ⁓ but

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yes I am. Yeah.

Ann: ⁓ several people did, so I'm like piecing that together and I'm loving hearing the stories and how many different paths there are to people that became ⁓ like are in our field. Just loving, loving, loving it and loving to be a part of it. But I also am getting to watch people that I know like personally or have met professionally.

Matthew Brooks: Mm-hmm.

Ann: People that I know as these like wonderful therapists and their stories behind it. And it's kinda great because some of them were like, I just kind of ended up here. And I'm like, That's so you, but you're such a wonderful creative like person. Of course you ended up here. And then, you know, ⁓ but it it we're all just quirky people that like art and people. Like there's these common things.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely a commonality of how people like the certain type of person that finds their way here.

Ann: Yeah. But we're all but I love I love them all and if I were out socially I and I didn't know them, I guarantee that I would connect with them. Because it's again, it's that like understanding we're socially we're good at it, but we're we have our little weird group.

Matthew Brooks: Absolutely. Yeah. That's where I always say, you know, for clients and stuff, I'm like, okay, if there's a party at a house, not some wild frat house party, but like a get together at a house and there's a lot of people, right? So where would you put yourself in that room? Would you be, you know, in the kitchen helping out, setting up food and everything? Would you be in the living room, like talking and and sitting on the couch watching somebody else? Would you be the person that's standing up like performing or like holding conversation with everybody? Or would you be in the other room with the like the coats and the dog? Or at the table eating the food? Like where do you put yourself in those kind of situations?

Ann: Are you asking me?

Matthew Brooks: Well, I just prompt it. It's not asking you, but it it's thinking about like where do the art therapists like where is the art therapist? Vibe? Yeah.

Ann: ⁓ I think they're in every room. Because I know where you're at. Well, I don't know. Where are you?

Matthew Brooks: Ooh, okay. This is good. Where do you think I'm at?

Ann: Now that I said I know where you're at. I mean You would be one of two places depending on where you're you were at that day. You would be with the dog.

Matthew Brooks: Okay. You are correct.

Ann: Or or you might be I don't know if you listed this as one, but like you might be in like the kitchen or one of the other rooms where there's a couple people socializing, but it's not the like you're it's not it's not the middle of the party.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah, you read that right. Yeah, smaller intimate conversations. Standing in the hall talking to people.

Ann: Yes. Yeah, but like engaged. Like you wanted to but and it would be dip that you would be one of those two places. If I had to find you, if I lost you. Okay, do me. Where would I be?

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Engaged. Yeah. Yeah. I think you nailed it. You would be everywhere. You would be moving. You would be like, hey, do you guys need more drinks? You good? How's everything over here? What's up? ⁓ we're doing stuff in the kitchen. Like, let me help out. Let me do this. Like, would you be sitting down? No.

Ann: Ha ha Absolutely not. The fact that you listed a room at a party where people were sitting, my brain didn't clock it.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're you would be just jumping around to every room and seeing it. Yeah. Yeah. Even at your own party that you had for your child, you were bouncing around and people would come in and then just sit and like talk and hang out, but you were like bing bing bing bing bing.

Ann: I was like, who's sitting at party? I did not have any awareness of that. I mean I I did. I knew people were sitting. I didn't hang out with them. I said hey. Love you guys. It's great that you're here. ⁓ Yeah. I hosting though, but that you're correct. That would be

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You would be hosting at somebody else's party too.

Ann: I knew you were gonna say that. I knew you were gonna call me out, and I was like.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I feel seen. But then your mom would be off somewhere just deeply talking to somebody in the corner of any room and they would be there for seven hours.

Ann: Yep. I mean in the best way. Hard story too. Like that woman, she's like, nice to meet you. Let me tell you about my great great great aunt who died and her entire life story and how that has impacted me. And I'm like

Matthew Brooks: Ha. Yeah. Yeah. As she's still holding the dish she brought to the party and still has her like jacket on maybe and just like I've gotten five steps in the door ⁓ I

Ann: Yeah, I can. Yeah. So are you talking from first Are you talking from personal experience? She's like, Hi, great to see you. I'm holding this pasta dish, but let me tell you something that's going to take approximately forty-five minutes. And you're like, put down the dish.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. And that was from the jump of you just introducing me. Yeah. Yeah.

Ann: Yeah. Put down the dish, Judy. You we have time. You need to get out away from the door. ⁓ parents. That should be a whole nother episode. How did we end up here? How

Matthew Brooks: Oof. Yeah. The reason we became therapists. Yeah. Yeah.

Ann: The reason we became who we are like maybe that's another video series. ⁓ my gosh. That would have to be a comedy. Tragedy. Comedy. I'm back. ⁓ that would have to be a that'd be a funny one. But like

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Titled You Couldn't Write The Shit. You couldn't you couldn't make the shit up. Yeah.

Ann: You couldn't stories from a therap stories from a therapist's childhood. ⁓ my gosh.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. I mean, every time pretty much every time I get to like a family wedding or anything where my aunts and uncles, who are hard Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, like Western Pennsylvania, blue collar people, they're the ones that would mainly say, ⁓ you therapist? Like and they would ⁓ just move their elbow and like point to it and I'm like, No, not physical therapist I'm like mental health therapist. And they're like, And then they would take a beat and then they would go, Well, you got a lot of on-the-job training already with this family. Yeah. And I was like, ha, I haven't heard that a hundred times from you at the last party we were at.

Ann: Yeah, the race favorite joke. That's the whole that's like, yep, yep, yep, yep. yeah, no, that's so funny. We could share those. Lordy, Lordy. so yeah. We we did not follow what we were gonna talk about then today. but I do love some of the things that we chatted about. I love that we gave Dana a nod. She really is wonderful.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. think we did it. Anything. Yeah. I I would love to carve out some space to have Dana on the podcast.

Ann: yeah. I that's what I was thinking. I was like why

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. Yeah. Dana would be we would have to clear out like two hours, probably.

Ann: She's been she's been very she's been really ⁓ busy though. In fact, I have to reach back out to her. In fact, she's on my list and I forgot. But anyways, okay. If ⁓ anybody else, I guess I'll throw this out there.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah.

Ann: If anybody else wants to 'cause I'm going to be doing a several part series with how did you become an art therapist because I the videos are so wonderful and I have a a c a couple of them, so or a lot of them. So I'm it it's gonna have to be a a few. Send Reach out. Just send ⁓ Just send ⁓ to my social media or the podcast social media if you want to be a part of it, 'cause it's so fun.

Matthew Brooks: Okay. I am curious because you just did a call to action for random people to send you pictures and videos from the internet.

Ann: What's he? Of shit. Art.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah.

Ann: You're thinking like a therapist. But ⁓ that has Yeah, so if you are an art therapist and you would like to share the story of how you became an art therapist, send me the video and I will include you on this little of you talking about how you became an art therapist. Send me the video and I will include you on this social media journey.

Matthew Brooks: Yeah. There we go. Yeah. Of you talking about how you became a heart therapist. Yeah. Yeah.

Ann: I will not be accepting any other kind of videos.

Matthew Brooks: that you cannot post publicly

Ann: Everybody gets it. Matt's pointing out that I didn't think about what I was saying. And social media is a scary world. So we're clear we're clarified.

Matthew Brooks: That being said, I mean I I guess we're supposed to do like a call to action, right? Like follow us on Art Therapy in Process Podcast, Instagram. Do we do those things? Do people still do those things? I don't know. I think so. I don't know.

Ann: Is that our broadcast handle? Art there be in Underscore podcast.

Matthew Brooks: A T impress? Yeah, something like that. You'll find it. It's in the link. Link in the bio.

Ann: Yeah, but they have to find our podcast to do it. Don't they? Art therapy and process underscore pod.

Matthew Brooks: That's true. Yeah, we're bad at this. There we go. Business people.

Ann: Found it. We're so good. We're killing it. Nailing it. All right. Thanks for hanging. Bye.

Matthew Brooks: Okay. Bye everybody.