speaker-1: Hello and welcome to Agency, a conversation about social change with the people who make it. We come to you from the lands of the Kiro Wurrong and Paramunk people. I'm your host, Emily Reeves. Today we're talking about what happens after. After we've worn it, after we've used it, after its purpose has been served. Because right now, millions of tons of textiles end up in landfill every year, despite the fact that much of it could be recycled, repurposed, or completely reimagined. Joining us today is the inspiring Yesha Patel, founder of After, an innovative platform changing how we think about textile waste. Instead of seeing the end of a product's life as a finish line, Yesha has built a system that turns it into a new beginning. In this episode, we explore the scale of the textile waste problem, the gaps in the current system, and the bold practical solutions emerging to fix it. We hear Yesha's story, what it takes to challenge a broken system and chart a new path forward. This is a conversation about innovation with purpose. Thanks so much for joining me today, Yesha. I'm so inspired by your story and what you've been able to achieve. So thank you.

speaker-0: Thank you so much for having me here today, Emily. I'm super excited to have a really nice conversation.

speaker-1: Wonderful. So let's just start. I mean, obviously you have achieved some incredible things in what I would say is quite a short period of time, really a phenomenal output and impact that you're already having. But I'd just love to start at the very beginning. How did you get started on this path? What inspired you to look at this issue of end of life textiles and the problem that we see and think? I'm gonna do something about that. Yeah.

speaker-0: So it goes back to when I was a teenager, actually, I was a young teenage girl that used to just love shopping, love going to the mall. Probably every weekend I'd be going to the mall with my friends, just consuming and buying a lot and particularly fast fashion. So I was consuming a lot of fast fashion without really thinking of, you know, the follow on effects, the impact on people on the environment. So I just got up through from it. And as I grew older and when I moved over to Melbourne from New Zealand, it was in the middle of the lockdowns when I suddenly had a lot of time on my hands and I decided to clear up my wardrobe. And as I was clearing out my wardrobe, I had three piles. I had stuff, a pile of things that was good that I wanted to keep. of pile of things that was still good that I wanted to donate, give it away. So I'd normally just give it away to friends or family or donate it. And then third pile, which was not so good stuff that I didn't really want to keep. It was just quite worn out. And I think it was items that had been piling up for a while. So I had a fair bit of it. So I decided to look online and see what can I do? I didn't really want to donate it. Like I said, it was just quite worn out. So I didn't feel right to donate it, didn't feel right to throw in the bin. So yeah, jumped online and much to my surprise, there was just nothing there that took that category of clothing in a way that was transparent enough that I knew where it was going to end up. That wasn't just the bin or resold because it wasn't sellable. And that kind of led me down a rabbit hole of research again with the amount of free time I had on lockdown researching into textile waste and just how broken the system is in Australia and New Zealand. We're throwing away around 6,000 kilos every 10 minutes. We're one of the worst countries in the world, Australia, in textile waste production. We're consuming a lot. The statistics were terrible, and it was absolutely shocking to me. And I had no idea this was happening, and it really felt like no one around me also had any idea that this was happening. So pretty immediately after that, I decided to change a lot in my personal life. I stopped buying new clothes. I haven't bought anything ever since and wanted to become more mindful of if I am purchasing, where am I purchasing from? And can I get secondhand? Can I repair? Can I use what I already have? Can I do renting and clothes swap and all these other things? But I wanted to take it a step further. Like I said, the system seemed like it was really broken. No one was talking about textile waste, but we're one of the worst in the world. Why are we not talking about it? We all have clothes. We all can relate to textiles. So we're either dumping, you know, or it's just going down the wrong channels and something had to change. So that's kind of what prompted me to, guess, begin this journey of textile waste recovery and recycling is really just changing the way that we are disposing of our textiles. away from landfall and not donating textiles that are just not resellable or rewearable because not everything can be resold.

speaker-1: the problem there, aren't you? And it's one thing to say, I see a problem in my own consumption habits and take a step to change those, which is fantastic. It's another step to then say, I'm actually going to do something about the problem more broadly, which is another big step. And I want to come to that in just a moment, but I'm interested in, and you talk about your experience, which I'm sure many people can relate to the idea of going through your wardrobe and pulling things out and actually saying, Hey, look, look how much I have, look how much is crammed. And people talk about having their wardrobes crammed full of clothes. And we know that there's a lot of pressure, isn't there? There's a lot of social pressure to have the latest clothing, but more than that, there's also pressure in terms of things that are cheap. And when I say cheap, they're cheap in terms of the dollar amount that you might pay, know, t-shirts that came out or leggings would be a few dollars. It's nothing. But of course. The cost associated with those products is much bigger and that cost is born in a number of different places, both at the manufacturing end. So who is producing these clothes? What's the human rights impact? What's the environmental impact of the clothing? And then obviously throughout the life in terms of what damage has been done, for example, to the environment, microplastics, et cetera, through washing. And then the end of life. there is a... ⁓ cost associated with these products, which is so much more than the $7 that you might pay it at the checkout. But your description of consumption and then having clothes to then get rid of really echoes. And I'm shocked by that. I mean, I didn't expect Australia to be fantastic when it comes to textiles waste, but I certainly didn't expect us to be one of the worst offenders. Can you just tell me a little bit more about sort of that? issue, either Australia, New Zealand, or even more globally. So we have so many clothes and with push towards fast fashion, so much is ending up being in landfills. think we've all probably seen photos of massive piles in Africa, but can you tell us a little bit more about the wider problem of textile waste?

speaker-0: think it stems from the beginning of the journey of clothing, the manufacturing. We're not manufacturing much of our clothing anymore in Australia and New Zealand. But the infrastructure that we once had set up has all moved offshore and it worked great for a while. And I understand the move and why we needed to offshore all of that. The follow on effects from that was that we were then consuming and importing a lot of clothing and we still do. But then when it came to that end of life, we didn't have anything set up to take care of it because again, that lack of infrastructure. So we then had to export it back out or dump it back out to other countries' landfills. So there was the system that we once had disappeared and then these are the follow on effects of not having enough infrastructure to deal with that waste. Not even just the physical infrastructure, but I guess the skills. You know, in Australia, I spoke to a textile technologist a couple of years ago and she said there's only six of her in the whole of Australia. Six textile technologists. So that skill, that craft of textiles, it's dying, unfortunately. And at the same time, it's probably growing in other countries, but for Australia and New Zealand, it's dying. And that's why we don't have that. You know, that power, that human capital, and then that financial capital as well. We're not investing much in it. We're not really teaching, you know, the basic clothing sewing skills anymore. So all those skills are pretty much dying. So with all of this combined, it is obvious that of course we wouldn't be able to deal with our textile ways. How can we when we don't have anything available to us? It is just easier for us to just. ship it offshore to someone else's landfill.

speaker-1: Yeah. And it's that out of sight, out of mind in a way, unless it hits media and we see those images.

speaker-0: Absolutely. And just to add to that, like I think we also have a great culture in Australia and New Zealand of donating, you know, like on the weekend, heading down to your local Salvos or your Vinny's and got like a whole bunch of stuff in your boot ready to go and drop off. it's just like, know, a fun day out of it. It's great, but there's a really dark side to that, that, you know, what are we actually donating? How quality is it? Is it actually truly donatable, reusable? Most of the times that probably isn't. And that's something that I found a lot in the early days when I started after and I was speaking to people, people who didn't know me and I didn't know them, so strangers. And I was just asking when you donate, like, you know, what about the stuff that's not donateable? What do you do? And a lot of them did say that they, they donate it. They knew it was bad. They knew it was not okay. And they felt very guilty, but they just didn't know what else they could do. Like it was almost wish cycling. You know, they just wish that the The Salves and the Vinny's will be doing something with those unwearables. But the reality is, that they're a charity. They're low on resources and it's not, we should not be dumping that on them. It's not their responsibility. They're here to take on donatable goods. They're not a waste management company, you know, they're all in the second hand and reuse space and they're here to do good. So we should not be adding more to that by donating low quality items.

speaker-1: It's just handling the problem, isn't it? Yeah. And I get it. I at different times, you know, have gone through those periods where you say, we're going to sort of go through our positions and sort them and donate what we can and reuse what we can or give away or whatever it might be. But there are always those things, those objects that either they got broken somewhere along the line or they're no longer really functional. And it's very difficult to then think, okay, If it's tech, maybe you can put it at the local council into sort of tech recycling or, you know, find ways to reuse, but there will always be those things that, that no one can take them. And I can almost appreciate this notion, we'll just handle that problem on because I don't want to be responsible for knowing this is going into landfill, but ultimately you are responsible for that. And I think it's, you know, part of that accountability is in it of being consumers, these things that we purchase. And like you, think I went through a similar period and it was two things that happened at once. On one hand, it was this cleaning out of possessions and realizing that there are things actually that will go into landfill because they can't be reused or donated. And that was hard. really felt so accountable for that. And it made me think the problem is not now. The problem was when I purchased it in the first place. So it was, you know, that was a learning curve, I suppose. And the second thing that happened to me at a similar time was. I remember getting some photos processed at Kmart and it was the 23rd of December. I, yeah, so it's two days before Christmas. I'm in getting my photos done. And I just remember seeing what felt to me like a frenzy of people sort of charging through the store with trolleys, know, laden with gifts. In that moment, it just really struck me. was so obvious. I wondered of all these gifts, we've all done it, of these gifts, how many will be used, how much of the packaging at least, or certainly, you know, some of the items themselves end up in landfill. And I did a similar thing to you. I said, right, for the next year, I refuse to buy anything new. I mean, there were some exceptions, underwear, but, but not, just stop buying, just stop buying new things. And it really. just forced a rethink and so I no longer would go for a walk along the street where all the shops are because I had no purpose to be there. And it was a fantastic thing, but it was a real shift in my mindset and shifting my patterns.

speaker-0: is and honestly like it was hard for me initially. Like when I decided I'm not going to buy anything new and then I'd end up having to go to the mall to like go to the chemist or you know other errands and I'd see sales sales sales and I'm like ⁓ my gosh like should I just quickly pop in and see what's there but I'm like no and it was hard to stay away from that noise because it's so noisy like the fashion industry the sales the You know, the new trends, social media is probably the biggest culprit. Like it's super noisy and it was such a big transition. And I mean, I don't think it's a solution like, everyone should just stop buying. But I think like, let's just try to be more conscious of how much we're buying. Because when I stopped, it really forced me to look into what I already had and mix and match. And that's when I started to become more interested in styling. How can I follow more creators that talk about styling outfits in a different way that I may have not thought of? So using what I already have, but in a different way. And that was really fun. that started to become really fun and a bit of a project for myself to kind of make new outfits using what I already have. it's a hard thing to do. And in no way am I saying that that's the solution. But I think let's try think about how much we're consuming and where we're consuming from. Again, like, things that came out. Sometimes, you know, yeah, times are hard. And if that is what you can afford, it was what you can afford, but what can you try before that? Is there, you know, secondhand items that might actually be cheaper, you know, or another type of offering a gift? Like, is there another gift that we can offer that's not maybe physical? could be a service. I think trying to think out of the box as well, but also I'm very mindful of, you know, let's not bring each other down. Because I think in the world of sustainability, I just hate how sometimes it's so much about perfection and not really a journey. But to me, it is a journey. Like we should not be putting each other down. There's already so much going on in the world. Let's do what we can in our own way that's reasonable to us. That's how we will make change, you know? It might be slow, but we don't need to make drastic changes that we feel really, really uncomfortable with. Take it one step at a time.

speaker-1: I couldn't agree more. even sometimes those little changes, they do, they make a big difference and they add up that kindness to ourselves because, and we spoke about this on other episodes as well, we're all juggling multiple challenges. There's lots of financial pressure on people here in Australia, around the world. So yeah, it's what we can do. And I guess probably the key message there, and now I'm really keen to get onto talking about your initiative and your work. But I guess the key is really about being thoughtful in our decisions, because if we can stop things upstream, we don't have the problem downstream. That's never going to be the entire solution, right? There are always going to be clothes that we wear that eventually are done. I mean, they'll be with us in the garden for a few years with holes and dirt and what have you, but eventually they're at the end of their lives. And then what happens with them? And then this is where you've stepped in so wonderfully. I'm amazed in that you've gone more than just saying, I'm going to change my own patterns, but I'm actually seeing a gap. Where do these clothes go? What do I do with them? There's a problem here. There's a gap that needs to be addressed and you know, I'm going to step in and I can make a difference here. So what was that first step that you took? Was there a moment where you just said, and I know you said you did research and through COVID you were looking at the problem. What was the first step in terms of the path to doing something about this, creating a solution for Australians, for New Zealanders that's bigger than your own wardrobe, much bigger.

speaker-0: I think that's what I had to validate first that is this just my wardrobe or is this everyone else's as well? First time I needed to make sure that this is not a me problem. And I assumed that it wasn't a me problem, but I needed to validate it. So at the time I was doing analysis of entrepreneurship. So we were learning about business then, you know, how to talk to your customers and all that kind of stuff. So in line with that, I decided, you know, go out on Facebook groups and just talk to people. And again, I think COVID worked to my end because people had time and people wanted to talk to people and, you know, meet new people. And so I just went on Facebook groups and I said, I'm doing a project would love to just, you know, take 15 minutes of your time and just ask questions about what do you currently do? And I wanted to know what people just currently did. I didn't want to like push a solution or something in front of them. I just wanted to know what were they doing and how were they feeling? Like what were the emotions? And that's when I found out a lot about the guilt that people were feeling with the current. solutions that they were doing. And yeah, it didn't feel right to them, but they just felt overwhelmed. They felt like they didn't know what else was out there. So they seemed like there was a lack of education, a lack of awareness and just lack of the systems set out to take that. So that really informed me into, what's needed. And I wanted to kind of think about how can I test this out? because we do the doorstep collection. So I wanted to know like, would people actually want someone to come and pick up things from their house? Like, you know, not a council, but it's actually like, you know, a business in a way. So in my little five kilometer travel radius in Melbourne, I just went around a certain area, got people to sign up if they wanted to recycle some stuff. And then I just went around and picked up their textiles and I got to talk to people and then. That's kind of how it started to build out. then, yeah, we grew bigger and bigger. And for the first year or so, I was the one going out and doing those pickups. I was driving a barn and meeting people and just like, you know, just getting to talk to people. And then that's where most of my learnings came from and validated a lot of what I was feeling that I'm not alone in what I was feeling that heaps of others are feeling very similar and were facing the same challenges. So that's kind of how I built it out with. I guess with people, you know, and with the feedback I was getting. And the reason why I really wanted to do that doorstep collection piece was I wanted to also be realistic that like we are, we're humans. We want to do good. We want to feel good, but it also needs to work for us. It needs to be convenient. It needs to be easy. It can't have, you know, high barrier to entry. needs to be, you know, super just. easy. And that's why I thought if we meet people where they are, would they be more likely to do the right thing so that they don't need to, you know, go out of their way too much and be an inconvenience. So that's kind of where that doorstep collection came from. It's like, you don't need to be home. You just book your collection on the website, leave your boxes out at your front door. And then, you know, You can forget about it. We'll take care of it. You can trust us that we'll come pick it up and make sure it's responsibly recycled. So it's that kind of like, they can feel good and it's easy for them as well. So you can't getting both because the gender is so Yeah. Cause we didn't want to just focus on the feel good thing because I want, I want to make the scalable and reach more people. That means not just those that are sustainability minded or eco conscious, but beyond that, you know, cause that's how we're going to make.

speaker-1: you guys.

speaker-0: changed. Those that are already, you know, eco-conscious and have those values, great. We don't need to change them. We need to keep them and instead empower them, right? And they were probably the early adopters of this service. But I wanted to then reach those that weren't that eco-conscious, didn't really align with that, didn't know how to, didn't really do anything in their daily lives that, you know, was in line with sustainability. Those were the people that are little bit of masses, to be honest. So. That's who I wanted to kind of, you know, reach out to.

speaker-1: Yeah, fantastic. And can you tell us, ⁓ so for people, I on the sort of consumer side, if you like, it's as easy as it can be, right? You identify the clothing or the material, because it's not just clothing. And I'd love you to talk about that a little bit as well. Can you describe sort of the nuts and bolts? So someone has some textiles that they're done with and they book your service. So just talk us through the steps involved in that. What you then do with it and then where these textiles end up, what happens with them at the end.

speaker-0: So essentially how it works is you pack your textiles, your clothing, it can be anything material fabric based. So clothing, bedding, towels, pillows, curtains, carpets, scraps like from your sewing projects, off-cuts, socks with colors in them. Yeah, anything even like bags as well that's like fabric. Anything that's yeah, fabric based. and any material composition. So it can be mixed material. It doesn't need to be a certain material. It can be super mixed as long as it's washed and cleaned. We know it might be stained and if you've washed it and it's still stained, that's okay. But yeah, as long as it's washed and cleaned, figure out how much you've got. Then jump on the website and book a collection so you can select how much weight you want to book for. So it could be five kilos, 20 kilos, 50 kilos, whatever you've got. book that in and then on collection day, like I said, you can leave it outside and the safe space will make sure that it's collected. You don't need to be home. And then once it's collected, we kind of have different pathways for it. So where we've got a recycling partner that's based out of India that does recycling. they do, they take the material, textiles are shredded, the fibers are opened up and it's recycled into a thread form again. So it's a yarn and that's a wool material. that goes back into other products like home furnishings. like cushion covers, carpets, curtains, things like that. Then another side we have is upcycling. So we work with local designers, upcyclers, students, fashion students, a big one as well, where they take whatever material that they're looking for and they become really creative out of it. So they can create fashion, furniture. any kind of art pieces and turn it into something completely new again. So a lot of the textiles that we collect end up being raw material. So they're used to, to create something else again. Everything that we collect, everything gets recycled or upcycled. Nothing hits the landfill. And we're really proud of that. And it's a mix of this onshore and offshore. And again, going back to that textile infrastructure that we don't have in Australia, it's a mix of Also leveraging what's already happening out there, know, like I guess we're places in Asia and Southeast Asia and India, like they're already doing so much textile manufacturing and that's years and years of skills and art and craft that they have that we are, that's dying here, like I said. So why not leverage that and use what they're already doing. And eventually we will be able to bring that to Australia. You know, once we do have more. infrastructure set up here. Once we have more capital, we can bring the same thing here and keep it all in Australia. But I think for now, the textile waste problem is a global problem and we need to collaborate with others that we can learn from instead of trying to do it all ourselves because this needs to be here for the long term. And so it needs to work for the long term.

speaker-1: Exactly. That's right. think there's the what works now and potentially things will look different in the future. And hopefully we do start to bring back some of those skills. I'm keen to hear too, what comes next for you and for after, but we'll come to that in a moment. There's a few pieces that you picked up there, but one piece, so there is a cost. You've got the service available to everyday people as well as businesses and companies. Is that right? And there's a cost associated, but, but, but I think, you know, in, terms of, I think very reasonable for the fact that you're able as a consumer to say, I'm investing in doing right by the planet, ⁓ by ensuring that these, these, these textiles go into the hands of someone who's going to make sure that they don't end up in landfill. I think just talk a little bit about sort of what that cost is and who can access your service.

speaker-0: So yeah, there is a cost associated with it only because it does cost for operations and logistics and actually recycling it properly. If it was being resold, then this would be a free service because we would get paid on the other end, but nothing is being resold and we're not in that area. We're not in that market. And again, if it was going to landfill, there would also be no cost because it's so cheap to throw things to landfill. That's kind of why there is a cost associated with it because there's a team and infrastructure of people behind this that are making it work. So let's say like the smallest one would be around five kilos for $22. And because it's textiles, it's actually not super heavy. So you can fit in a fair bit into that, or it would be, you know, 10 kilos for around $35. So again, you can fit in a fair bit of 10 kilos. So, and as you said, we do households and also businesses. So with businesses, which is a really big one, can be textiles that like uniforms, for example, end of life uniforms are a big one. So from like schools, corporates that might have uniforms that need secure distraction, because they need to protect IP and branding. That's something that we would hop with because, you know, they want to make sure it's not in landfill, but they also need to protect their brand and that commercial kind of intention with it. Or, you know, we have manufacturers, so manufacturers of like furniture, for example, so they might have offcuts and scraps from their production lines, just really small, awkward pieces of material that they just can't really do much with. then because the manufacturing is such high volumes, they end up with such high volumes of that, then it's really difficult for them to store it for so long. So it's kind of helping with that side of it. And that's why it's more than just clothing. There's so many different types of businesses and industries we can work with, even like the hotels. accommodation, hospitality space, you know, think of all the linen that goes bad and with these businesses and that's where we make the real change because these businesses do have these standards that everything needs to be perfect. And that's what I guess consumers are expecting. know, most consumers do expect that level of perfection. So let's try not to change that too much. Let's try to change the other side of where it's going to end up, you know, because yeah, we can't shake the whole system up. That's going to take really long. So let's try fit into the current system and make change slowly, slowly from within, if that makes sense. So we've worked with some really cool businesses. Councils are a really great one as well. So we've worked with some councils that offer this service to their residents. So it's a really great way to have more, know, create more accessibility because it's been free for those residents. So when councils get involved, it's really ideal. We've had some businesses that had like staff clothing drives for their staff. So like they have a box in the office, they collect textiles and stuff for like a couple of weeks. And it's like a really nice initiative for a team to come together. Because then we send out impact reports to businesses. So that's something that they can have that we as a business, as a team have diverted this many kilos. This is how much water we've saved, energy we've saved. it's a shared win that you know, if you do something internally for your staff, it's a shared win that you can celebrate then and show off, you know, it is worth showing off.

speaker-1: Yeah. And being able to have that data, you know, that actually you can evidence the impact that people are having through their actions. That's fabulous. And what a great partnership because it really is just ⁓ a win-win. But you've built a model and we have to build a model. I think that that is sustainable. When I think about social change and campaigning, We're in it. We're motivated by the change we want to see in the world. Absolutely. often that's our sort of true North, if you use that term. But if we don't set up businesses or models that are sustainable, then it doesn't last. It becomes a good idea with a flourish of activity and then it can't be sustained in the longterm. And obviously that's what we need. We need solutions that are sustainable, that people can derive an income that can keep the company going and at the same time doing enormous good in the world. It's not an either or. And so I think it's really important that you've embedded that. And again, I think in terms of a consumer investment, you we pay a little bit of money and out the problem that we've created or the issue that we have, which is our unwanted textiles is taken care of in a really considered. evidenced way. And I think that that's a fantastic investment that we almost mentally need to build into consumption habits. So when we think about the things that we buy, we're thinking about not just grabbing it off the rack, but we're thinking about that full cycle and to have a company like After that can support you, that can offer a service that we can trust. is done so well and as I said in such an evidence-based way is a fantastic thing for us as consumers.

speaker-0: Yeah, I just, can I just add to that? think with the consumer side, think we offer that choice so that you can do something on your own. But ideally we want to get to a stage where it's the brands and it's the corporates that are taking this responsibility. So it's accessible to everyone, you know, ideally like fashion brands having take back services, but they take on that cost of responsibility recycling. their waste from their consumers. So that makes it more accessible as well. So if it's covered by the producer of the waste in a way, then that makes it even more accessible. But ideally I want to get us to a point that, you know, this kind of service is business as usual and not just added sustainability tick. You know, I think that's when we'll know that we've made a genuine impact.

speaker-1: Exactly. And that's where you get scalability too, isn't it? And this is sort of my, my next question was really where to for after you've got a model that seems to me, I mean, you're already scaling it. It's already growing and it is growing quite rapidly, right? I'm sure there are times where you all think, oh, things aren't moving as quickly as we'd like, but it's phenomenal what you've achieved in a really short period of time. And with anything, suppose we're looking for those sustainable ways in which

speaker-0: Round

speaker-1: A good idea, a good model can be scaled and often that is through working through sort of existing structures. So whether that's local governments or it's corporates. Can you talk a little bit more about what you like to see and what that next phase looks like for you?

speaker-0: I think more corporates and councils on board that can offer this kind of service to their customers, to their local residents, to their staff, so that kind of we go through the business kind of channel instead. Getting more of them on board would be awesome because that's how we can reach more people. I guess the overall goal for us for after is reach more people. So in line with that, also want to right now our household collections are only in Auckland, Sydney and Melbourne. So I want to be reaching more at least major cities for now across Australia, across New Zealand, particularly the households. How can we reach more regional areas? They're often, you know, under resource, they often don't have these kinds of services at all. So how can we reach those rural and regional areas? because there's so much potential there as well. And a large part of Australia and New Zealand have people living in those areas. I guess the overall goal is to just reach more households, reach more businesses and divert as much as we can away from landfills.

speaker-1: brilliant. Just listening to you talk now, it's really clear the level of motivation that you have and drive. mean, you don't get to where you have without having a really strong drive, a really strong commitments, but more than that, an ability to work with people, to connect people, follow a path, to set your own path really, isn't it? You are in a new territory, you're creating something that doesn't exist in your, you're doing it in your way that works for the local context. Because we're coming to the end of our time together, but I'd love to sort of as a, as a parting question to ask, is there something that, that drives you? Cause I imagine that this, there must be so many challenges along the way and things where you test and adjust. And when you're leading a company, when you're leading. a movement and organization, it can sometimes be a little lonely, right? That you're at the forefront of this. And so when you have those challenges or moments, what is it that keeps you focused, that keeps you driven to achieve great things?

speaker-0: I it's the community that we have. think the people that we've serviced and the feedback we get, it's incredible. Like that warms my heart so much. And I actually have like a little spreadsheet which has all the positive feedback that we've gotten or just little lines that people have said to me and I just write it down. when I, when I am feeling, you know, in those low points, which is quite often. That's something I can refer to and just remember my why on my purpose. And there are people out there that do appreciate what we do and are really supportive of it and are wanting to make a change in their lives. if, you know, if that's not impact than was, you know, I think that's what keeps me driven. It's the people that we get to work with and talk to. And even not, not even just the household level, but the business, the corporate, the commercial level as well. Like you do have people in businesses that really champion this. They, you know, they put an inquiry with us and they want to know all the information so then they can take it up to their, you know, managers and exec and they don't have to do that. It's probably not even part of their job description, but they want to do something. so it's like, yeah, good on you. Like, you know, we're going to be here and help you do that. So. That's really heartwarming when we get folks like that. And there's so many folks like that, including people like yourself. It's always really nice to hear that people are noticing what we're doing and that will keep us going. ⁓

speaker-1: Fantastic. look, congratulations and credit to you for what you've achieved. Yours is a story we will be watching. I have no doubt you've already achieved such wonderful things, but the trajectory you're on, I'm really excited ⁓ to see where you go next. Thank you again. It's been an absolute pleasure to learn more about you and your story and the wonderful work you do. And I'm very grateful for you sharing your wisdom and your learnings and your time. Yesha, thank you.

speaker-0: Thank you so much for having me. It was so nice to chat.

speaker-1: Thanks for joining us. Agency is produced by Agency International, an impact-driven advocacy communication and campaigning organization that equips change makers to achieve their goals. To find out more, visit agencyinternational.com.au. Thanks to Adam Weiss at Relativistic Media for our editing and post-production. And thanks to our listeners for joining us.