speaker-1: Rage.

speaker-0: We are back and we're discussing possibly the biggest movie of the year and the biggest of Christopher Nolan's career, The Odyssey. And to help us along with this spoiler review, we invite Andrew Rogerson from Australia on. He is a slam poet, and you can follow his podcast and social media at ITink ThereforeISlam. Go check it out. Drew from Ragewell features there as a guest, talking poetry and movies. It's a really enjoyable chat. But let's get back to the show in hand today. Drew and guest Andrew discuss Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey. Reminder, we do go into spoiler territory, so only listen once you've watched. Enjoy. Welcome back, guys, to Rage Well. We know we haven't been around for a few weeks. We've had a little short break, ⁓ me and Drew have, and ⁓ But we've been doing we have still been watching lots of movies, but obviously today we're going to be talking about the big one of the year. Literally, there's nothing bigger than this film this year. ⁓ and today we've got a different special guest with us, not just ⁓ a Cinephile himself who loves her loves movies, especially Christopher Nolan variety, but is also a poet and friend of Drew's. His name is Andrew Rogerson, and he runs a podcast. And an Instagram page, so go and give him a follow called I Think Therefore I Slam, associated with slam poetry if you're not familiar with the term. Andrew, welcome ⁓ by the way, he's from Australia and it's what what time is it over there?

speaker-1: I woke up at five AM today and ⁓ can I can I just say Kev there there are very few things that'll get me up at five AM nowadays. ⁓ one of them is podcasting though and the other is talking about movies, so I'm ⁓ I'm ready to go.

speaker-0: I just can't believe it. At five o'clock in the morning I'd be half dead. There's nowhere I could have a conversation. and you'll get up at five o'clock to talk about a heavy subject.

speaker-2: But also that beaming smile, he just looks like he stepped off a film set, he just shining, shining with enthusiasm and health. It's

speaker-0: We really appreciate you making the effort 'cause it is an effort for you to get up at this time to to join us 'cause of the time zone difference. So yeah, really appreciate it. But yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself, man.

speaker-1: Yeah, no worries. Well, I'm gonna attribute the smile to the electrolytes that I've just down. So rather than coffee, I've I've just had a a full cup of electrolytes. So so that's me. Nice. And and can I just say, look, it's it's not lost on me, you know, how much trust you're putting in me with this episode because this is one of, if not the biggest kind of entertainment launches of the year until you know, Grand Theft Auto six comes out in a few months and Curb stomps it. So really looking forward to the conversation. In terms of myself, ⁓ yeah, that's right. I'm an Aussie. I'm based ⁓ down in Melbourne and I've been ⁓ writing and performing ⁓ slam poetry or performance poetry, spoken word poetry, there's different words for it. for about seven years now ⁓ around Melbourne. Melbourne has quite a a thriving ⁓ slam poetry community. ⁓ I've also been ⁓ podcasting for a number of years. I originally during the COVID years started a film podcast of my own with a with a friend of mine. So you know, podcasts like Rage Whale remind me of of how much fun I had doing that. And more recently, ⁓ yeah, the podcast is called I Think Therefore I Slam. Ha ha. And ⁓ it features. Thank you. Thank you so much. So it features ⁓ I I say that we feature the the best slam poetry and spoken word artists from Australia, but also beyond. I've been very lucky to to interview guests from all around the world. ⁓ including ⁓ Andrew Horner here, who I was ⁓ introduced to by a former guest. And we had a fantastic ⁓ discussion about ⁓ Andrew's poetry a couple of weeks back. ⁓ I'm also doing something new this season where I'm sharing ⁓ a bit more of my own work and the stories behind that. So doing a few small solo episodes. So I'm in the midst of season three. ⁓ it's available wherever you listen to podcasts and ⁓ and on Instagram, I think therefore I slam. So come check it out. Especially if you're curious about ⁓ If you've maybe if you've heard some of Andrew's work and and thought, ⁓ I'd I'd like to hear some more o of that or other people who do that or if you're curious about what exactly the whole deal is with slam poetry, ⁓ come check it out.

speaker-0: See the thing that I really enjoyed about the episode with you and Drew, so Drew will not be shy in admitting or be I think he might be okay with me taking the piss out of him a little bit as we're friends. I love Drew, but when we talk movies, we we ⁓ yeah, we we geek out, we can be really serious about subject, but quite often we can be very silly and immature and ⁓ Me and Drew mess up the way we speak quite frequently as well.

speaker-2: English tripped us up basically.

speaker-0: Yeah, but when I listened to your episode ⁓ of ⁓ you interviewing Drew, I'm used to my mate Drew, who's very capable but comes across very silly most of the times in our conversations, like like I do. We c we just have a silly chat. I was like blown away by how much you got from Drew, because Drew comes across as the most eloquent genius words and I know He gets most sentences wrong when we talk about a basic film and naming a a a director. But you got so much out of him that it was so ⁓ I I praised him earlier, but it it was beautiful listening to your conversation 'cause Drew comes across so amazingly. So if you're a fan of Rage Well, go and listen to I Think Therefore I Slam and look for the Drew episode, which was out June, I think. Drew is amazing in it and Andrew does an amazing job at interviewing him. I I can't praise it enough.

speaker-2: That's that's very kind indeed. I mean, I was saying, you know, it it's the host, man, the host that guides you. Do you know what I mean? I I I was so honoured to be a guest on there. And after we said about ⁓ RK Gandhi, Ravi, ⁓ the fact that he kind of ⁓ gave ⁓ Andrew a heads up and said, you know, get get Drew on that he might make an interesting guest. But I just thought Andrew and I had such an interesting dynamic and it's obviously ironic that we both have the same name, we both have the same kind of calling with poetry and storytelling. but I just want to kind of send the lift back down to Andrew, actually in the sense that Andrew's latest things were so inspiring hearing the episodes he's doing recently where he reads a piece of poetry, breaks it down, and then goes back to it and reads it again. It just is like a mic drop moment because it just y you get the plant and payoffs on the kind of similes or the metaphors or the analogies, and it has such a kind of such a deep element to it. Like I think it could really changed the way that people experience poetry, man. And so, Andrew, I'm so glad you're putting yourself out there more through your your platform, but also you know, interviewing really interesting poets as well in the slam scene, man. So

speaker-1: ⁓ thank you so much, guys. That's that's really, really ⁓ humbling to hear. And ⁓ if I can just gas up, you know, my episode with with Andrew ⁓ once more. ⁓ one other thing I appreciated about our chat is that we we really did get into ⁓ some areas of of passion for you, Andrew. I know we we spent some time talking about mental health, particularly men's mental health and kind of what the landscape of that is in the modern world. ⁓ And and ⁓ but also, you know, had had a a healthy amount of geeking out about cinema and your experience in the industry and and having a laugh there. So there's there's something there for everyone. If ⁓ if if you're more ⁓ of the ⁓ the movie side of things rather than the poetry side of things, you're not gonna be left out. There's gonna be ⁓ some some good laughs there. And ⁓ I totally hear what you say about ⁓ about ⁓ kind of we we fumble over our words on podcasting sometimes, you know. ⁓ One of the things I want to try and contribute today is that, you know, if we ever get in a in an area where we're trying to think of an actor's name or a title or whatever, I'm gonna try and do my best to kind of fill those gaps. I I I'm not perfect, but I used to work in a a video store and it it kind of changed my brain chemistry. I I feel like I have a I have a corner of my brain that is like kind of human IMDB. So I'm gonna try and put that to work today.

speaker-2: Dude, you can save us, man. You can save us.

speaker-0: A lot of people's names to remember in this film, that's for sure.

speaker-1: ⁓ I've got the bloody glossary open right now. We we need it, yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, I've got some things there just just to go

speaker-2: Just got notes on my phone, basically. But

speaker-0: So so that was the ⁓ licking each other's R section of the podcast over with. So

speaker-1: ⁓ sorry, I've got something on my nose. Hang on, hang on.

speaker-0: I mean it was appropriate. You you guys did a great job. So ⁓ it's worth it's worth going to listen to that, anyone who's listening to this. So but today, the Odyssey. Christopher Nolan, you don't even know need to know what the film's about. Christopher Nolan releases a film, people even joke, you know, no matter what he releases, people will show up for it. It's event cinema, which you don't get these days. But if we go to Andrew first, like before we go into that, we'll we'll break bits down and go and and tangents, but what was your kind of main takeaway and what was your main experience like in in cinema yourself?

speaker-1: Yeah, sure. ⁓ so quick history lesson. going back fifteen years, right? I I am a former Christopher Nolan evangelist, right? ⁓ by the time Inception came out in my last year of high school, ⁓ I was singing his praises, being like, He's the greatest living director, you know. I I came to things like the Dark Knight late, actually. And the reason why is because one of my favorite movies as a kid was Batman and Robin. And I don't know if you've you've given that a a rewatch recently, but you you reach an age as a as a young man where you kind of rewatch it and realize that it wasn't how you remembered and it was a little bit kind of I don't know, I'm gonna use the word a bit kind of kitschy and a bit a bit lame even. It's it's it's very corny, is what I'm trying to say. It has very

speaker-0: But still fun. Yeah.

speaker-2: Was that the George Cooney Schwarzenegger one?

speaker-1: Yes, with the nipples on the bat suit famously. ⁓ all that kind of stuff. So I think I avoided the the the Batman Begins and the Dark Knight because I just had that association. So ⁓ it wasn't until a couple of years after Dark Knight came out that I actually saw it. And then Inception was the one two punch. And ⁓ I will say that Nolan has been more of a divisive ⁓ name for me since then and I think it's just because I have very high expectations of him. So I went into the Odyssey with some trepidation.

speaker-2: Just a quick message to thank you all for listening to our show, whether it's through Spotify, Apple or YouTube. If you are enjoying, why not follow? Click to subscribe and leave a five-star review. Also, a reminder to follow us on Instagram and TikTok for fun clips from the show. We love and appreciate your support and thanks for sharing us with friends. This helps us to grow, improve and continue creating. Now back to the conversation.

speaker-1: And it had nothing to do with the casting or any of the stuff that people were were winging about in the lead up. It was more, is this director the right fit for the material? Now I've never read the Odyssey. ⁓ I'm not, I'm not even super familiar with the the broad strokes, which was actually probably helpful going in because I'm not precious about, ⁓ you know, they did this this way, they left this out, they they put this in, that they changed this, that kind of thing. But it turns out that ⁓ it was actually a a really, really good pairing between director and material because some of the the idiosyncrasies of Nolan, some of the things that he can be a little bit of a one trick pony about. ⁓ so what I'm referring to here is like his his stories are are so often about very stoic characters. His stories are so often filled with very very like male ⁓ melodrama. if you like, you know, these tortured male figures. ⁓ it turns out that that is actually a perfect pairing for, you know, a historical mythical epic. So much so that I'm like, yeah.

speaker-0: That's that's the thing a lot of people do say he doesn't write women very well, but I think there's not a huge amount of women in some of his films, but I don't think that's a fair critique unless it's a film about men and women. Like Oppenheimer going, ⁓ Emily Blunt didn't have much to do and it was wasn't very many women in it and that's not relevant for that story. Oppenheimer is about a man who built an atomic bomb. There were no women involved. All men were scientists back then, women were literally it was old school. They were back in the home. So yes, it's misogynistic, but that was the time. Can't just insert a woman for the sake of it. It's a biopic. It's meant to be maybe not 100% accurate but true to the material. And in this for sure there weren't many women, but the women who were there were you know were gods and goddesses and you know powerful and some of the most scariest parts of the film and even Anne Hathaway makes the comments that, you know I've been sat by the throne for twenty years, he's not coming back, but my young child is the only one that can take it 'cause he's a man. She's fucked off about it. She's fed up about it. Yeah, but that's probably not in the text. That's probably Christopher Nolan accepting or acknowledging that people are gonna comment about it, so he's made a woman voice that probably.

speaker-2: Salt in the wounds, wasn't it? But she had some of the stronger elements though, 'cause the fact that you've got Tom Holland's characters like, How are we gonna get rid of these people that are in my dad's house, so to speak? And she's like, Let's just close the doors and burn them all, and you're like, Whoa like giving her some really spicy dialogue. Do you know what I mean? It was it was really good to see see that. And it felt like this film of all of them had such a kind of punch to the heart on an actual kind of love level, if that makes any sense. Do you know did you feel that? Like

speaker-0: 'Cause yeah, he's not very good at doing love either, is he normally? Yeah. Whereas this.

speaker-2: This really played on the love element.

speaker-0: Bringing Matt Damon back and the love was making her hold out for him. So there was strong and I mean, Andrew, we kind of cut through what you were saying. Well maybe I did, but you you're saying like that this this sort of text is kind of perfect for Nolan because it is a a male centric story and it's three thousand years old whereas it's usually from a male's point of view, so he kind of is the right all his negatives are perfect for this positive.

speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. And to your point about emotions, like when I think about his filmography, they are not films that move me emotionally. but that is that is not the only thing that I enjoy in films. ⁓ they they are they are more kind of intellectual exercises, but I think Odyssey worked for me because I walked out ⁓ I walked out probably the most satisfied I'd been from a Nolan film since inception. Now, I know you're probably thinking, what about Interstellar? I know Interstellar is is is ⁓ is very precious to a lot of people. ⁓ very Interstellar Yeah, and Interstellar didn't quite land for me because I feel like it was trying to be both a hard sci-fi theoretical physics, you know, this is how this would actually look and function. And it was trying to be kind of fantastical and discussing, you know, love as a metaphysical force and kind of ⁓ was was reaching further than maybe Nolan could grasp with his yeah particular ⁓ particular set of ⁓ of he he's a bit like a human computer, ⁓ you know, in in good ways and bad. ⁓ I've just got a little fun fact for you guys. ⁓ I don't know if if y'all knew this, but the the 2004 film Troy, right, with Brad Pitt, ⁓ directed by Wolfgang Peterson. So partway through production of that, Wolfgang actually left the production to go and try and make of all things a Batman versus Superman film, right? And Christopher Nolan actually took his place. So Christopher Nolan almost made his ⁓ what's that, his third, well arguably fourth major feature ⁓ as Troy. And so he kind of helmed it for a little bit. And then ⁓ Wolfgang's project fell apart and he came back and finished it off. And funnily enough, Nolan kicked on to direct Batman Begins, ⁓ not long after that. ⁓ So he almost he almost kind of got to do this kind of story in the past. So it's really cool to take all his experience and all the the the technology that he's he's at the the forefront of. And I'm sure we'll talk about a lot of, you know, the behind the scenes trickery and and stuff that that he did and and really kind of throw his whole his whole might into it and it Rather than walking out of the cinema feeling, you know, a bit a bit kind of overwhelmed by the experience, 'cause it's, you know, like I said, it's quite an intellectual exercise. I felt very energized. I really want to see it again. I had a great discussion with my mate ⁓ for about an hour afterwards, after we saw it. And I think it's it's got some really meaty themes. So yeah, really looking forward to diving further.

speaker-0: I thought of my mate Ryan, ⁓ who listens. Hi Ryan. ⁓ that'll freak him out. is that what he said when it finished is that he felt satisfied because it wrapped it up and there was a happy ending, which notoriously is what Hollywood does, and then in the last twenty years they've tried to be surprising and give us different endings to the point where you it's always predictable that there's gonna be a negative ending or the bad guy's gonna win now more often than than it being nicely wrapped up in a little bow. But this film was epic, it was long, but it didn't feel as long as it was, and it did tie up nicely and it was a positive ending, even though there was some you know, the him being exiled as opposed to being happy, but he was happy being exiled 'cause that's kind of their their equivalent of going on holiday. They've he's got back. Leave the kid to it, we're going on a holiday type thing. That's watering down the the concept, but it was still positive and tied up and and it was full circle. You know, it was preempted at the beginning, that's what they wanted and that's what they got at the end. ⁓ reminder, spoiler conversation. Yeah.

speaker-2: They've escaped the weight of their responsibilities, haven't they? To not have to be king and queen essentially of that of that.

speaker-0: She was basically a prisoner. She was kept behind that screen because she couldn't be near the men and the men couldn't be near her except when they they were kind of doing the things but

speaker-2: But that that's what I'd say there's loads of themes. Again, I and I'm sure Andrew's gonna get into this. All the kind of themes and and s sub subtextual kind of plots and narratives throughout is really clever because prisoner is interesting that you say that. Charlie Steron's character. ⁓ he's

speaker-0: The wrong.

speaker-1: ⁓ true.

speaker-2: Yeah yeah. ⁓

speaker-0: When when I forgot she was in it when when she paired the beach, I was like

speaker-2: Yeah, she's like, Do you really want to go? And he's like ⁓ Yeah, but like everyone's kinda like trapped in their own turmoil, as it were, as well. The guys are kind of trapped on a boat, they're trapped feeling hungry, they're trapped having to follow a path. Like there's there's so many different traps.

speaker-0: In a Cyclops cave, you know, just your average Sunday.

speaker-2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I just think it's a really interest there's so many different themes going on throughout. It's it's really yeah.

speaker-1: Can I ask you guys, one of one of these kind of ⁓ things that has grated on me from Nolan, probably since the the the Dark Knight rises, is we've got to talk about the sound mixing. Now I'm not talking about, you know, the loud booming sound effects. I'm talking about where dialogue sits in the sound mix. I I don't know enough about sound mixing in film to know what is going on here. My best guess is that ⁓ He is mixing his dialogue mix for a certain environment, you know, probably the biggest environment ever, the the IMAX and what have you. And I mean it was most egregious in tenet. It is shit. I cannot hear your characters explaining your film to me, Christopher. ⁓ however, I have had a breakthrough ⁓ since since Oppenheimer because When I go to see his films now, I am very careful to go and see a closed caption session. And I want to know if you have these things in the UK. Can you go to a closed caption session and get one of these? Whoops. Get one of these little ⁓ closed caption machines that you kind of screw you kind of screw them into your your cup holder, and it's kind of like a little screen about the size of this mic where you can kind of ⁓ You know, manipulate it to to fit below the screen and it'll have the subtitles there just in case you need them.

speaker-2: That's that's amazing.

speaker-0: There are some cinema screenings like at Cineworld that say closed captions or you can ask for it, so but no, I've never asked for it. I've I've I've never been bothered by the sound mixing, but I do know what you mean. Tenant tenant was yeah, it was very loud, but Odyssey was really loud as well, but I didn't miss any words. Maybe it was the type of screen or where you're positioned, where you're sat, 'cause yeah, Nolan makes it for IMAX in the center in the centre. If you're on the ⁓ outside you might be too close to A loud speaker as opposed to a vocal speaker if that makes sense. So sometimes it's about positioning maybe.

speaker-1: The first time I I ⁓ sorry, Andrew, the first time I I asked for this machine, I remember I was asking, you know, some sixteen year old kid on the desk. He had no idea what I'm talking about. So, and when I tell people about it, like here, they go, ⁓ I didn't know you could get that. Because I'll I'll if I watch something at home, whatever it is, I'll have subtitles. That's that's that's just how I am now. ⁓ and I'm not saying I spent the whole of the Odyssey, you know, this this sumptuous visual feast of a film looking at a tiny screen. It was there when I needed it. A lot of the time I didn't, but it was nice to to have it there and it made the experience more enjoyable and more accessible. So if anyone's out there and has never heard of these things, see if you can find a a closed caption session and and see if you can get one of these things and and give it a go, is what I'm saying.

speaker-0: That's that's interesting actually, yeah. But yeah, no, I've I've not heard any I don't know, Drew, did your experience have any effect? I

speaker-2: Well no, well I I I think it's a really I think it's a really interesting point because a lot of people do talk about that with Nolan that sometimes the sound mix goes over the dialogue. But what I would say is this feels like the least amount of dialogue in an actual Nolan film, if I'm honest. If you if you actually cast your minds back to the movie, it's montages of just pure it's just we're seeing it rather than hearing it, which I think is really interesting. Characters aren't really talking in some of the most kind of dramatic moments. Do you know what I mean? There might there might be a few lines thrown in in that kind of third act, big battle moment when arrows are going everywhere and he's beating the crap out of people. He goes Jason Bourne in a in a kind of wi with a bow and arrow. But it's the moments it's like the silence to let th us digest the the dialogue in this film more so than's other ones. And then in the big epic moments with big loud music playing or soft music like the siren, there's no dialogue. I think that's what makes the siren scene. If the siren scene was to play on its own, that is almost like a little short film that could win awards just on its own. That one scene on the boat. His

speaker-0: Screaming when he's tied up on that mast is devastating. That's what that's when I went that's acting. I it's actually talking about it, a man screaming. But he does it so well, it's it's an impassioned scream where he looks in pain and an ecstasy at the same time. Yeah. It's a really confusing moment when you watch him and he's it's so amazing. He's left like floods of tears and stuff like that. It's so good.

speaker-2: Well well here's a question for you guys, both of you. Do you think this is ⁓ one of Matt Damon's best, if not the best, performance of his career so far?

speaker-1: Yeah, look, he's made I mean, he's made a career out of being this ⁓ I wanna use the word an everyman, but that is that is harder to do than it looks. And and you know what, I think this this is probably owed to his background as a person. You know, I know he's the the son of a a a teacher, ⁓ for example, you know, and ⁓ I I th I think the casting is great. I'm I'm really I'm really happy with casting and the and the performances across the board mostly. ⁓ but yeah, I think it's a lot of pressure on your shoulders to to carry a massive summer blockbuster like this. And I mean I feel like he he does it with ease. I feel like the you know you mentioned the siren the siren scene the the the pathos that is needed because ultimately this is a film about PTSD. This is a film about experiencing something that And and and being involved in something that violates all your personal values and then dealing with the fallout from that and wondering who am I now? Can I even go back to my old life after after doing this this war crime, if you like? ⁓ so yeah, great performance in my book. That

speaker-2: Can I jump off the back of that? Sorry, man. That's so powerful because I feel like everything going on right now in Gaza, you know, it it feels like Nolan has kind of hit the nail on the head. The idea of war, no matter what happens in war, it affects people. And this whole film is about, like you're saying, the PTSD, the aftermath, but how it destroys communities, people, ⁓ lives. Worlds, minds, like it's like nothing good ever comes from war. And I think that's such a powerful ⁓ kind of theme, I guess, for the for the for the world we're in now, where wars are constantly breaking out left, right and centre. I think Nolan's really good at finding the kind of zeitgeist of something going on in the world and and putting his Nolan stamp on it, but really taking us on a journey, literally, like he does with the Odyssey. But

speaker-0: Yeah. Well, like you guys obviously like poetry. Like the big the big phrase that is said a few times in in the story is don't look for gods in men. You'll always be disappointed. And there's other things as well. But which is really good because even when you're saying that, you don't even have to use the word gods. Like you could use politicians, you could use what you know, kings, w whatever it might be, or you know, ⁓ someone that's ⁓ got authority, you know, it's there's more to it than that. Like just because you run the cutting train and stuff like that, you're still moral, you're still gonna make mistakes and just 'cause you say it's right doesn't mean it is right. People easily follow and they shouldn't

speaker-2: was like the Zeus's Law thing, right? Which I thought was actually quite powerful when I watched this film a second time. The idea that they let in the kind of like plate lickers or the poor people and they bring them in and they say What a phrase. What a phrase. Well no, it's it's a quote from the film. But then it's like the idea of saying don't don't treat them like that, because they could be a god. They could be something beyond themselves. And it's that that idea that we're so but even in life I feel we're so presumptuous. You you might see someone in in like ragged clothes and flicks of paint and you go, ⁓ god, look at that bum in life or whatever, but then they might actually be a a multi millionaire that's just painting their house. There's that misconception we're so quick to judge people, I think. And ⁓

speaker-0: It's another third full circle again, isn't it? Because like don't let let Matt let Matt Damon in just because he's a ⁓ a beggar, he might he's like you think he's a god? Well technically he's as close to God as you can you could imagine, just a way.

speaker-2: Yeah. Yeah.

speaker-1: Talking to the I guess the world at larger, ⁓ one thing that struck me is that I never saw a character in this film read or write. So we're talking a pre literate world. And I was thinking about like the terror of a pre literate very analogue world where if you go out on a journey, all you have is your wits and how you think the world works and what your beliefs are about who you need to appease to to you know to to go somewhere and to get back home. ⁓ and so, you know, this terror of ⁓ turning up to a new place, a new island on the way home and having no idea and needing to eat, you know, and and being at the mercy of of the elements. And it really made me appreciate like ⁓ it really made me appreciate and understand how mythology might have developed in a world like this. where so much was unknown and so much was unexplained. And, you know, you might you might rock up and and and see something on an island, whether it's an animal or or a person that you'd never seen before, and it would change your entire worldview. And I think ⁓ it really did well to to yeah kind of ram home that yeah, just the the terror of of of ⁓ of of what that world must have been like for everyone.

speaker-0: It's good point 'cause they kept mentioning that ⁓ you've heard the songs, ⁓ you've heard the poetry, you've heard the the the rumors, like the all reported. Everyone's just there's songs, that's how they they hear things. And obviously they're you c you you can only take a certain liberty with these things 'cause they're embellished obviously, aren't they, as well. So

speaker-1: tradition.

speaker-2: I mean that sorry, that that goes full circle as well, 'cause like a lot of people saying they weren't sure how they felt about the intro, but after watching it a second time, I think it's fantastic because it sets up the literally the story, but also the the kind of the concept of the story that back then you would have people that would tell stories around fires or whatever. And even at the very end, I think ⁓ Penelope's character asks Odysseus w what what's gonna be how how's it all gonna go? And he says the songs are the ⁓ how they'll remember us from the past. It's the idea that we live we live through stories. And that's why I think it's really powerful that the way this the Odyssey opens up with the banging of the you know the stick and he's saying a man, a myth, ⁓ you know a a a a trick and all this stuff. And it it it's it's do and also I'd say that it's clever on a kind of like almost spoken word level, Andrew That it's like it's hitting the beat and telling the narrative of jumping where we're going. But also, when I watched it a second time today, I think it goes slightly deeper than that because a trick is played not just on the people of Trojan with the Trojan horse, but the gods are playing tricks as well. So they're putting temptation in front of people, they're putting challenges in front of people, and they're testing. the the kind of morality and the human elements of people and seeing how far they can test us like w w with our minds. It's like O Odysseus is tested by ⁓ sacrificing his his team, but in order to lose years of his life. So it's like there's all these little clever moments of tricks and traps and I think

speaker-0: That's it, 'cause th th men don't understand gods and it and that's what Athena says, played by Zendaya and and he 'cause Matt Damon is just but like why why do the gods test us so much? Why don't they let us know this is the best route? And she goes, They did. Don't you understand thunder? Don't you understand death? Don't you understand fear? And he's like, What? Just doesn't get it and sh they d it doesn't work 'cause it's

speaker-2: Yeah.

speaker-0: They think it's obvious but obviously humans don't understand that that premise, basically.

speaker-1: With the I want to talk about the the supernatural elements of the story for a second, because I again ⁓ I I come at this having not read the Odyssey, but I did think it was interesting that all of those elements were experienced specifically by Odysseus and his men. They they don't seem to be experienced by the other characters. And I wonder if there's this is probably not a new take, but I wonder if there's a read in there of like all of these supernatural events are kind of metaphors for the psychological journey that Odysseus went into after after PTSD, you know, and that perhaps the men were not necessarily eaten by a Cyclops, but they died of natural causes in in this in this dangerous journey or whatever. But but this was cool because those elements speaking of things that that I'd never really seen in a Christopher Nolan film, like this is new for him. And I think we have to talk about I think we have to talk about Cersei. I think we have to talk about the body horror. Because that was my favorite scene. I was disgusted. I was fascinated. And Samantha Morton, who's always great, is almost stole the film for me in a in a very small role, but a very important role. ⁓ yeah, what what did you make of that scene? What was your experience?

speaker-0: Well, Drew, don't don't you think don't y ⁓ wouldn't you think the beginning bit of what you said about their that why are they the only ones experiencing it, if you remember from the beginning, no one's left. There there's b there's boats and there's there's warriors that go out and do whatever they need to do, but people don't leave. All those suitors, they're all cowards. They've never left that island. That island is their sanctuary and they talk about, you know, the stories are coming to them like there's people from the sea that attack be wary. not realizing that the people from the sea are Odysseus when they're just going to get provisions and stuff. But yeah, there obviously there's no such thing as gods and cyclopses and stuff. So do we believe this is a fantasy story or is it a caution retell of how you should act and how you should look after each other and, you know, like you said, post traumatic stress, getting lost, getting a hit on the head, you know, there's there's Charlie's Thuron's not caring for you in a beach for seven years, he's he's probably been brain damaged from crashing. But it makes stuff up, you know.

speaker-2: Too many lotus plants. Could it also be karma? Because I really like what Andrew said about the idea that it's almost like a psychosis that through the trauma of war is making them see the monsters. Because at one point I w I was gonna try and write a poem about the Odyssey, obviously, but it it's it's so vast and so big task. It's really, really difficult. But at one point I was thinking of just the idea that it goes these these men have seen monsters and survived, yet they return with the monsters that still live inside their minds.

speaker-0: I'll I I'll take I I think you need to take that back if you think about it. You just watched it for a second time. Who's seen monsters? Who who literally was seeing monsters? But who survives? Who's the one that tells the tale of monsters? Only one man. Everyone dies. True. So we've only got one man story. Because even when you're talking about what's his name? Benny Safti. What's his name? A

speaker-1: We witnessed it.

speaker-2: ⁓ then.

speaker-0: Ag Agamemnon. So he returns after they've taken Troy. No monsters have been seen. He returns at that point. Everyone returns at that point. No one's seen monsters. The first monster is them on their journey home where they take the wrong turn and end up an island of Cyclopses. And that's the beginning of the monsters and the issues. So it's only seen by one crew and they all die. So did any of it happen, is it all in that demon's head?

speaker-2: That's quite cool. That's quite a cool part. But but ⁓ and that also explains why all of the men surrounding him know about Poseidon and they're the ones telling him they're almost like reinforcing his own beliefs and trauma.

speaker-0: He almost doesn't believe it. He's like, He's did you hear it screaming out Poseidon, we're now cursed and he's like, We're not. We're fine And every time something bad set happens and you're the bad luck, he's the one that saves them and he doesn't believe and he's the one that says about gods, he goes, I defy the gods. Yeah.

speaker-2: So he's in denial, isn't he? Like that's what's quite clever and again that's another that's another Nolan trope that characters are in denial.

speaker-0: Or into Amazon.

speaker-2: Nice, nice. But going going into the monst the monster territory, the idea of Nolan, we know that obviously Nolan blows up real planes. Like he he does things like fully to yeah, he's not gonna mess around with CGI or green screen. So the idea of having that 60 foot puppet that I'm sure everyone is probably talking about in their potential podcasts. But I thought it was interesting because I actually felt sorry for The Cyclops. And I thought it was very clever how he gave the Cyclops a kind of occupation or made it slightly like a farmer hobby. Yeah, a shepherd making feta cheese, right? Like he just wanted to make some feta. Didn't Yeah, and then they they took him into yeah, they went into the cave, they went beyond the point of no return. So they're breaking boundaries. And ⁓

speaker-0: Yeah. Vegetarian with no penis. The amount of penises we've seen in the last year from like twenty eight

speaker-2: He's like a Kendall. He's like a Kendall, like a sixty foot Kendall. ⁓ that gets poked in the eye, that bit where they heat up the thing and then they tap him with the s the sword. Can you imagine being kind of asleep and then they stab you? You wake up, they poke you in your one eye, in your only eye, with a hot rod, like

speaker-0: Mean the whole idea of a cyclops is pretty phallic anyway, isn't it?

speaker-2: Fair, fair enough. But yeah, that whole sequence, man, I thought was genius. And then how they tie the ⁓ the hay on the back so they have to escape. The tension and the horror, like Andrew was saying, like this is such a a new area for Christopher Nolan to venture into, and he does it with such grace and such skill. ⁓

speaker-0: thought that was better than I thought. I was t I was chatting to ⁓ my mate and I said that I thought 'cause from the trailer you saw the Cyclops, so the mystery was gone. I knew there's a Cyclops coming, which I thought was a shame 'cause that'd have been good to hold that back. But I guess you've got to tease something monstrous for the f for the for the average purse to go to the cinema. So when they first escape, I love the fact that Matt Damon jumped back in because I th when they escaped, I thought ⁓ that ⁓ it's just a short Cyclops section, but when you jump back in, all these people were in there and they had to spend the night with them. I was like, ⁓ it's not gonna be boring. This is interesting now. I like that. I like we spent time with them. But I do think I don't know what your thoughts, Andrew. We I don't think we spent enough time with each obstacle. There was a lot of the boat scenario, which is great, but w the sirens was just a little bypass. We didn't spend any time as I didn't see a siren really. just kind of shape shifting things on the rocks. The the the spider octopus rock whatever the hell whatever that was, that I thought we're gonna get a kraken. I thought we're gonna get a big octopus coming from underneath. We didn't I didn't get enough of that. I like the dead people and I like the giants. But again I didn't we didn't I thought they were gonna spend time with the giants make try and make friends of them and then something happened. They got pissed off and attacked. And did you know it was a woman a small woman playing Matt Damon's part dressed up as Matt Damon fighting like a a basketball player in a suit when it was the actual battle section.

speaker-2: Yeah, seven foot seven foot actors in the in the kind of giant ⁓ armor small like four foot, five foot women and

speaker-0: It wasn't Of it was camera angles to make ⁓ look bigger, but the actual fight of Matt Damon with that one, that was a a small woman with muscles.

speaker-2: Yeah, he said he loved her arms. He said th they're the best arms he's ever seen.

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: Peter Jackson would be proud, you know? Yeah kind of stuff. Yeah.

speaker-0: Well, those sort of things that the the best scene that I've seen where people look big and small is in ⁓ elf.

speaker-1: ⁓ yeah.

speaker-2: Yeah.

speaker-0: Where what's his name? Will Farrell's sitting at the little desk with all the elves and it and he's actually next to the camera and they're like thirty meters in the distance, but it looks like they're sat next to each other.

speaker-2: Will Farrell. I think they they shrunk the set though, so he's like he sat on a desk that would be like probably, I don't know, the size of a a car, a toy car. So yeah, it's five or six.

speaker-0: I thought that I thought that was great. Well so you were saying like Samantha ⁓ mortem is your favourite bit. I I I have to concur, I think that was strong. And 'cause I was curious why when he was walking up and he saw a lion

speaker-2: Yeah, Panther, a tiger, yeah.

speaker-0: It's a scared man in a in a furry costume, technically. ⁓

speaker-2: The way it's built up again, this is famous Nolan stuff. Like you've got Odysseus with his arrows, he's like, I'm trying to get some food for the guys in case they don't get any from the house. He's like fire where he does the bow, his famous boom, letting them know I'm gonna try and hunt you down. But then when he fires the arrow and then when they look over the cliff and he sees it's a bloke and he's like, Whoa, something's really not right here. And that's the reveal to something he's cooking in Denmark in that.

speaker-0: Clever when they've all turned into pigs and he sat there and he he he notices a glance at the crow and he just grabs the crow by its throat.

speaker-2: Yeah. Mother, sister, brother. ⁓

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: It it was good, but like I read that he was what he's meant to have done is that he was meant to be in love with her and he he had to be in love with her for a few years to get the men back. Obviously no one made it an afternoon because Matt Damon's that that charismatic, but real in the Odyssey book he stays with her for years, makes her fall in love with him so he can turn the men back in a

speaker-2: Did you did you notice in the dialogue that I thought was really clever, she goes, Go back into your disguises when she brings them from pigs to men, which I thought was genius.

speaker-0: 'Cause they are pigs. Yeah.

speaker-1: ⁓ Every time they go to one of these islands, you've you've got to think ⁓ speaking of the you know the people from the sea, it's like it's like they're invading someone's land, you know. They're invading the cave of the cyclops, they're invading the lands of the giants, they're in invading ⁓ Circe's domain. ⁓ this this motif of the of the the warning shot of the bow that Odysseus would do, I just thought was great because

speaker-2: Nice to her.

speaker-1: It seemed to be characteristic of of of a sense of justice or fairness for him. He would say, I'm do I do this when I hunt, because hunting is also ⁓ warfare or s or words for that effect. And then of course at the end of the film where we get, you know, the absolute barn burner finale, when he does it for the the suitors, it's no I feel like it's no longer about mercy and fairness. It's about this is actually the end of mercy and end.

speaker-2: Yeah, yeah.

speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, yeah, let's go. You know?

speaker-0: ⁓ but that you've seen that that's the beginning of I forget the production company now, like the It's T S D yeah, where it shoots through. Yeah, it's a very, very famous scene that it's done. But yeah, it it it does it made my spike I knew what was gonna happen, it was obvious, it was building up to that obvious, but when was he gonna take that cloak off and act? And then when it happened, you're like, This is gonna be badass And it really was. It was not a disappointment.

speaker-2: It's T S G.

speaker-1: That Cersei scene, ⁓ it's really cool because I think Nolan has paid lip service to his interest in horror more broadly. And even maybe that's that's something he might move into in the future. And I I'd I'd love to see that. ⁓ especially given his his yeah, his ability and his skill set and how he likes to show things. And yeah, Samantha Morton, I mean, people are talking about ⁓ Oscars and stuff, ⁓ we'll we'll see. We'll see how things go. I I I don't know if there's you know, you have to be in a a film for so long, but you know, people have Anthony Hopkins got it for, you know, 20 minutes of work. So ⁓ I think it's possible. And I will say, again, I I'm pretty happy with with the performances across the board. I thought Ann Hathaway as as Penelope was also great. I will s I will say, ⁓ and you know, it is not my place to say what people should ⁓ do with their you know, their bodies or their face or whatever. But I will say, ⁓ I did feel like it was a little bit of a shame that I just wanted, you know, the additional 10% or 20% emotionality from Anne Hathaway's face that I feel like, you know, whatever has been done in that space was kind of taken away from her. And I feel like Samantha Morton did that. Do you know what I mean? Like I feel like we got the full range. of kind of what you want from from an from an actor. Again, it's it's not my place to say, but I will say

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: And it's not it's and it's you know, it's it's men and women in in Hollywood, like it seems to be everywhere. And I do feel like we are we are losing something. We're losing some of our greatest greatest ac ⁓ actors and and actresses to to those kind of trends. So yeah, again, I think I I got I felt like I was able to see all of that on display from from Cersei and that's that's another reason why I appreciated it, I suppose.

speaker-0: Yeah. And that it it it did feel like that scene was like a little snippet of American Werewolf in London, the way she manipulated their faces and body to stretch.

speaker-2: Molds them, like yeah. Yeah. And that's that's not that's not CGI, that's all done in in house. I think everyone is gonna buy the Odyssey to watch the special features and everyone's gonna kick off if the Cersei scene is not on the special features of how he did everything.

speaker-0: Well I accidentally mentioned that, but like what like deviating slightly, did you guys get cool trailers? 'Cause I got I got some cool trailers, but the one that stood out was Werewolf, ⁓ Robert Eggers sequel sequel to Nosferatu. Did you guys get that trailer?

speaker-2: Yeah, yeah.

speaker-1: I I did.

speaker-0: That on IMAX is amazing because it's it's deliberately meant to be a bit shit, as in like quality. So

speaker-2: Correctly downgrained grain. Yeah, they made it square. Yes, ten four.

speaker-0: The square it was so grainy. It looked like it was filmed on a camcorder in the eighties. It was black and white and it was extreme angles and it just had it was it looked like the most depressing pri place on earth but so it's so exciting at the same time. Like I I cannot Nosferatu was the best film of the other year. Well, is it two years ago now, isn't it?

speaker-2: Yeah.

speaker-0: came out like Christmas on that crossover pipe, but it was so good. I'm just

speaker-2: Yeah. Yeah.

speaker-1: Well one of my ⁓ I ⁓ sorry Andrew, I mentioned at the the top that I had some kind of trepidations or misgivings going into the film. I I I want to talk about actually the trailers for Odyssey because I feel like you know they ⁓ obviously people were looking forward to seeing what the film would would be like and and obviously there were certain things that people were were were not happy with, ⁓ some of which, you know I don't think in entertains a a ⁓ a response. I mean, people saying, ⁓ you know, how is how is Lapita playing Helen of Troy or or having Elliot Page in it? Like that that's that's not what I'm I'm talking about.

speaker-0: Wing people have been fucking horrendous and horrible, but it hasn't had no impact, if not an anti negative, and it's brought more people to be curious. And everyone's gone yeah, Elliot Page shouldn't be playing because they everyone thought Elliot Page was going to be playing the Troy Brad Pitt character. Yeah. Because they're not, they're playing someone completely different. And when you watch it, you go, That's brilliantly played.

speaker-2: Yeah.

speaker-0: Whatever role it is, it's ⁓ it so your opinion has changed. All these people making opinions before they've even seen it is ridiculous.

speaker-1: And a very important a very important character who, you know, who, you know, highlights more about the character of Robert Pattinson, but but also, you know, another another person, another relationship that was burnt by what Odysseus did and and having that ⁓ we haven't talked about the the Hades scene yet, but again, another really stunning piece of of of of visualization of of what that was like. You know, far more than it would have been if it was just a generic kind of, you know, room on fire, flames in the air kind of thing. But I want to talk about the trailers in terms of I was a bit concerned about ⁓ the use of of language and particularly ⁓ Telemachus, you know, saying, ⁓ my my dad's coming back or whatever. I I'll be honest, I I was a bit like, okay, because obviously a choice has been made to use more modern language. And I was a little bit like I don't know if that's the right choice. But I will say, ten minutes into the film, once the ear adjusts, absolutely fine. It reminded me of of last year where I I went and saw the musical ⁓ Hades Town, speaking of of Greek mythology. And ⁓ they made a choice there to let some of the lead characters use their native Australian accents, which was weird, right? Because it's a big Broadway show. And again, first five or ten minutes, I'm like, okay, adjusting. But be once you get through that hump, you go, okay, it's a choice that's been made. And now my ear has adjusted and it's just part of it. And so, you know, when you go to see this film, yes, it is set in this, in this, ⁓ in this you know, certain time period, but it is it is more contemporary language. And I've seen some pretty kind of wild takes about. what that might mean, ⁓ you know, so far to say that, well, when you think about it, this whole film is actually analogous to like the US Empire and what they have done in the theater of war. I mean, you know, take that or leave that. I think that is an interesting take on things. ⁓ but them saying that potentially that was why, you know, everyone keeps their native accents and just kind of plays it pretty straight faced, if you like. Yeah.

speaker-0: Well that's it. In these sort of films, you get silly people picking on things like like those factors or, you know, race and gender and they're shouldn't even be part of the conversation. But it is interesting that it's out there and that the gr vast majority don't care and agree that we just can accept people for who they are, which is the right way to be. So I'm glad there's hate out there for the majority to tell ⁓ to shut the hell up. it shows a movement forward and progression, hopefully. But yeah, that's the thing you people people nitpicked about Travis Scott as well, who's not really an actor, he's just

speaker-2: He's great.

speaker-0: But he he's I didn't even know he was in it. I I watched it but it was Ryan that told me later that was Travis Scott. I like, was it? I don't know him, I don't I d I know of him, but but the thing is with films like this, you could nitpick to the point where 'cause people in on actual American news channels were having a go, like you said, ⁓ Lupita Nyongo being a black woman when she's meant to be a white woman. Like, what do you mean she's meant to be a white woman? It's a fictional story. It can be anyone

speaker-2: It could

speaker-0: Yeah. Get a grip. You know, yeah, the the the cyplux should have been blue. That's what it says in the book. Like shut up. Plus everyone's American. It's it's based in Greek. Like if you want to nitpick, everyone's wrong.

speaker-2: That's what you just said, ⁓ the Odyssey, it's all Greek to me. You know what I mean?

speaker-1: And and and the film wasn't even out. And also like we've seen this before, even in the realm of Nolan. I mean, I I thankfully I wasn't ⁓ you know, on on ⁓ chatrooms or whatever back when like David Bowie in The Prestige, you know, made fucking Heath Ledger in The Dark Knight. What you know

speaker-0: I mean that was weird when we heard about that before he was in it. Everyone was a bit like the rom com guy

speaker-2: Well it's because he's we he was like Heath Ledger's just ridiculously handsome was always playing the romantic roles. So

speaker-0: You would've worked for normal Batman, but because Batman beg begins had recently come out and everyone was like blown away by the fact it was dark and serious because Nolan didn't make it colourful and fun. We're like, but but how's Heath Ledger going into the dark one and then

speaker-2: Just completely one of the best performances. Yeah, yeah, you will never touch that performance.

speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓

speaker-2: Going sorry, just jumping back to trailers though. How clever was the ⁓ the misdirection of the scene? Talking of like bits where it's like you've got Odysseus saying, Let's go, and it looked like they were all with him and he was going to war saying, Let's go. But in actual fact, as Andrew said, it was taking place in Hades and all the ghosts are now running at them. So he's like, Let's go. So it's actually completely flipped. And I thought that the trailer was very clever. Because it always

speaker-0: didn't excite me, to be honest.

speaker-2: No, but I'm saying it's clever because there was so much misdirection in the trailer.

speaker-0: Well the opening of the trailer, the first trailer the teaser was him on a raft lying flat, which is the bit where he leaves Calypso, ⁓ leaves Charlie Charlie's Thuron. So it's kind of in the middle of him actually going home, whereas it looks like it's the beginning of him being crashed. That's kind of the premise of the trailer and it was wrong again.

speaker-1: ja

speaker-2: So that's the And also, I thought that Tom and John Berethnal were gonna go on a journey together to go and fight his dad. But that doesn't happen at all. Do you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, yeah, it's they'll do that in Brand New Day instead. But it's the fact that that he goes back to see him for a kind of small section in the film, but I thought they the way that the first trailer looked like they were talking at candlelight, going, We're gonna go find your father

speaker-0: in the cave because the bit where you get they go in the cave and the cyclops is there, it's them two chatting at the table, but I think in the trailer they made it darker to make it feel like in the cave. So I think like you say misdirection, I think literally that that because the trailer I thought was rubbish. It was just him floating on a bit of wood and then Tom Holland chatting to John Burfnor for like two minutes. I'm like what the fuck is this film about? I knew it was gonna be good, but I did think the trailer was crap.

speaker-2: ⁓ We can we just say that this is literally an amalgamation of all of Nolan's like work to date when we were saying that you think of scenes like ⁓ the Calypso is that right? I'm thinking of the lollipop ⁓ Calypso. ⁓ that that scene with Matt Damon is very kind of inception esque, Cobb lost, trying to get home, lost in limbo. Then you've got like totems of like when when Penelope gives him the the The Athena pin. Yeah. So that's kind of like a totem. But then you've got like the Trojan War stuff is very Dunkirk and and you know, Nolan loves his water and fire. ⁓ and then the the third act is very Batman. It reminds me of Batman, like hooded cloak stuff, ⁓ a masked figure like who is very Legal. Yeah, very Liga Shadows, yeah. And then when he returns and then strokes the dog and there's like a little element of your

speaker-1: League of Shadows, yeah. Yeah.

speaker-2: Then like when he's like, Nice jacket, nice jacket. But it's like stroking a a dog that then sadly passes away. But it's like all these little clever moments, and then the idea of doing the test reminded me of the Dark Knight Rises when he's trying to climb the prison sea. You know, when he's trying to climb the prison wall and he's You've got to do the test. And then even the way it's shot when when John Garuzio is against the the kind of the stone wall and he's lying on the bed. That reminded me very much of like when Bain is visiting Batman and he's in that cave and it's there's there's so man there's so much kind of echoes to a lot of Christopher Nolan's work in in in this particular film.

speaker-0: Yeah, and with what what I noticed about Christopher Nolan, what he does as well is that no matter how small the part, he tends to bring out the best in people. I don't know if it's just because it's it's him and it's the way it's shot, but he lets he lets the actors breathe and he even says that yes, he's got a script, yes, he wants to cover certain things, but he does encourage them to bring themselves to the table. So he's like, Yeah, I need you to run from there to there, but how you run is how you want to do it. If you want to scream, talk, say that's you, we'll film it and if it doesn't work and he he always comes in under budget and early. He had like I think three months or four months to film it and he he finished a week early. It's like what? Wow. Like that's no one does that and definitely no one on the budget this size does that.

speaker-2: Y you know, talk talking about what you're just saying, sorry, real quick, ⁓ l is it Le Pitignon? Lungo, sorry. So ⁓ she said in an interview the other day that because she's the queen, in in there's a scene where she's like doing loads of stuff and Christopher Noel in real life said, I want you to talk to all of the all of the extras, get them to do all the tasks you need. And then and then she it wasn't until later on she realized it went, ⁓ my god, that's so clever.

speaker-0: Younger.

speaker-2: 'Cause she was awkward trying to direct extras thinking this is so wrong. Like, who who the hell am I? But what he was doing was on screen, it's the queen dictating and saying, I need you to do this, and what are you doing? You get down here and do this. And then it was like she's she's the reason this He was getting her into the character of the Queen, but then I love the kind of double twist as well with ⁓ Agamemnon ⁓ I probably butchered his name there, like sacrificing

speaker-0: Film exists.

speaker-2: His his daughter and then got the Helen of Troy and their twin sisters and that whole thing was so clever, man. That's

speaker-1: Prestige. Brilliant. Huh? Twins. Prestige. Twins, yeah. Like yeah, it's everywhere. Yeah.

speaker-2: Yeah, and it's like she's she's so good, like you're saying, people that have four minutes in this film are amazing in those four minutes. I think everyone that has their time, like you said, Kev, he just knows how to bring the best performances out of people.

speaker-0: A person I love, I wish she had more to do in this film to be honest, but it's still great performance, but I know she's got more in her is ⁓ is Mia Goth. She's one of my favorites. I think she's incredible. And she didn't have much to do. I think she probably had the least romantic. But she still came across as a great servant who then double crossed and then she had that moment with Robert Pattson where she kissed him and touched his nose. It's like that w that

speaker-2: Yeah.

speaker-0: Nose touched, she added that. It's improved, yeah, yeah. That was a bit ⁓ but the way she did it was proper sneaky and stuff like that. It just it's just a small moment, but she still did the best she could with the little she had, I think. But I want to see more from her. But ⁓ like o on this on the small parts, like John I'm I'm not very good at saying his name, John Luguziamo. That pe people are saying this is the best thing he's ever done. And

speaker-2: He's amazing.

speaker-0: I thought it was a smaller role, but i in reality he's in it the whole way through. It always comes back to him.

speaker-2: Well he was amazing in Romeo and Juliet. He was amazing in Romeo and Juliet. We can't take that away from him. And and also in Moulin Rouge. But in this

speaker-1: He did the sloth himself.

speaker-2: ⁓ yeah, that's true. Sorry, my bad, my bad.

speaker-1: He's got a great body of work now, yeah.

speaker-2: Yeah.

speaker-0: But but yeah, no, he's he's great, but in this he's you f really feel for him. He's really he's really engaging. You believe him even though he's blind that he knows these he he can tell who's there and stuff like that, except his own master when he comes back. But but hey, but like the heartbreaking scene where the the people come and kill his dogs and brothers and stuff like that. It's pretty heartbreaking. When you see his eyes w wet from emotion, it's

speaker-2: And then kick it over.

speaker-0: Is r is real as far as I'm concerned. That wasn't acting. He was like in the moment we

speaker-2: Someone was saying the other day that Nolan can add such weight to like a a a prop or an object, but also a sound. 'Cause like Andrew said earlier, like when he pulls when he plucks that thing right near the end, you've got the the build up to it, that that pluck has such kind of weight and like resonates people's hairs like Spider Man. Hairs go up on people's you know, my spider tingled when when he did that.

speaker-0: Broom through the theater. Well I said we said like he wasn't he's never been good at the motion side of things, but I think on reflection, most of his films have some moments of emotion. Yes, it's not full on breaking down, crying except for maybe Interstellar, but there's still heartfelt moments and in this for me it was him just letting the dog die that's twenty years old waiting for that that's a famous painting, I'm sure you guys are aware of that.

speaker-2: Yeah, it's Argos Argos, Arragos is the name of his dog, isn't it?

speaker-0: Hope it's not Argos.

speaker-2: Aragos.

speaker-0: That's j just for the British. I'm sure you guys do does Australia have Argos, the shop?

speaker-1: ⁓ no, what's what's this?

speaker-0: this? Argo Argos it's it's what we had before Amazon. You basically you get a book with every item for clothes to to exercise stuff to toys to ever like trampolines and you walk into a shop that's small, type a little number in, give it to the person, they go behind and whatever you want of twenty million thousand billion objects, you get it. There's a conveyor belt and it just comes from

speaker-2: You got eight digits.

speaker-0: You know, some surprising place upstairs. Is it Argos?

speaker-2: It's Argos.

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: Some connection there, you know. Yeah. ⁓ but spe speaking to them must

speaker-0: Get us a trampoline, Argos.

speaker-1: Speaking to the the cast, ⁓ firstly, during ⁓ John Bernthal's ⁓ scene with Tom Holland, I will admit I was on the edge of my seat waiting to see ⁓ is he gonna say it? Is he gonna say his catchphrase? Is he gonna turn to Telemachus and say, Let me tell you something? Is he going to do it? And he didn't do it. ⁓ but I I would have loved

speaker-0: Every video is I'll tell you something. Let me tell you something.

speaker-2: There was rumors he was gonna say that though.

speaker-0: Just ⁓ it's not a literal catchphrase, but if you look at every film, he ad libs that

speaker-2: I'm gonna tell you something. Yeah, yeah.

speaker-0: Refilm says it. So like it's like a meme now.

speaker-1: Yeah. And with the casting, I mean, particularly s since Oppenheimer, I feel like I mean, I I I feel like he Nolan has so much pull that he can just cast whoever he wants. And I think he he wants to just stuff the cast sheet with like thirty or forty names. So you mentioned about Mia Goth, who is, you know, a very established name, has a tiny part in this. And it's it's all across the board, you know. You've got the

speaker-0: It's

speaker-2: Same with Zedea. I Zadea has probably five lines and she's in like four scenes.

speaker-0: She was the most pointless actor in the film. Yes, he's important, but that could have been anyone.

speaker-2: I think it's

speaker-0: For her to be on the poster and Himish Tel not is a crime.

speaker-1: Yeah, that's a good point actually.

speaker-0: She's bringing in people, I get it. I get why she's on the poster. The big names that everyone knows is on the poster, but it's not an order of importance or screen time or not like you said, Drew, yeah, like some villains have small screen time, but they add so much weight. I wouldn't say that Zendaya added any weight. She just brought some people into the theatre. Himesh Patel was one of the best parts of the entire film. He was One of the best parts for me. And he's British and put on an American accent and a Greek film. Yeah.

speaker-2: I completely agree, but also you could say the same with Samantha Morton's name is not on the poster and she's the thing that everyone's talking about.

speaker-0: I think she's the surprise. I think she doesn't need to be on the poster. She no one talked about that scene because everyone talked about Cyclops. You have to see the film to know about her scene because it's the surprise. ⁓ Himesh is a constant all the way through.

speaker-2: She's like the Gary Oldman part, you know, like Gary Oldman will just turn up and he'll like, ⁓ that that's

speaker-0: Slow horses when he's in five minutes of every episode.

speaker-2: No, no, no. I mean Nolan stuff. Like like in Oppenheimer, like just playing the president. You're like, what? So it's like it that's what Samantha Samantha Mortson was the ace in the hole in this

speaker-0: Exactly. The stuff you the one you don't tell people about, you got to see to experience it.

speaker-1: Speaking of surprises, I've got a question for you guys because I was talking about this with my mate. ⁓ so in the lead up to Interstellar, was it was it public knowledge that Matt Damon was gonna be in that movie? Or was that a complete surprise? Because I can't recall.

speaker-2: Huge surprise to

speaker-0: He's not credited. No, he's not credited in the in the credits. Really? It's an uncredited role. He phoned them up and said, Can you just be in this bit for a little bit? He knows jokes. It's uncredited. It's a day's work or whatever. He did somebody.

speaker-2: Not on the poster though.

speaker-1: He's not a

speaker-2: He's got paid for in the stella now, hasn't he?

speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. And and I guess establish that relationship with Nolan, you know. ⁓ I mean Nolan seems to like to to rework with people he's worked with before. But ⁓ yeah, I mean you've got you've got other, you know, names running around. Like you, you know, Logan Marshall Green is there as the as the the guy with the spurs who who gets. I mean, ⁓ Corey Hawkins is is one of these these plate lickers, ⁓ sorry, these ⁓ these ⁓ suitors, I should say. ⁓ and and Ryan Hearst as as mentor, which I thought was interesting 'cause Ryan is about to get to work on his own little Greek mythology thing. He'll be playing Kratos in the upcoming God of War ⁓ series. So ⁓ really cool to to see him kind of poke his head into Greek mythology for a little bit.

speaker-0: I thought that would be a great role for Paul Bullion. I thought I could see Paul Bullion doing that role where he's teaching Telemachus, Tom Holland, how to play and looking after him. ⁓ so ⁓ do you know Paul Bullion? He's he's Drew's friend who's in like Peaky Blinders and what's the other one?

speaker-2: ⁓ yeah, that would have been amazing.

speaker-0: The series. The Vikings, isn't it, or something like that?

speaker-2: There's ⁓ no no no The Witcher man, he plays Lambert.

speaker-0: The Wit that's the one. That's the one. The Witcher. ⁓ but he's also in Mission Impossible Eight with Tom Cruise acting alongside him. Yeah. ⁓ doing a small role there. So yeah, it's he he he's he's going places, but he's got that big bearded look. He would have been perfect in this film. Yeah, he looks like a soldier.

speaker-2: ⁓ isn't he? Well he looks he could look like a Viking, like he's an absolute tank of a man. Yeah.

speaker-1: When we when we talk about the I guess the climax or finale of this film, I thought it was so clever how its whole approach was not necessarily I mean, there is this big bombastic, you know, fight scene, but before that in the lead up, it very much kind of takes things down a gear because we have this this running theme of how, you know, Agamemnon got home from the war and essentially paid for his actions that he took to win the war, right? Sacrifice his daughter and was with him. And and that was me. Yeah. And when Odysseus found that out by seeing him in Hades, which was, I mean, another just a great moment in a f film full of great moments, the the intrigue that came from that going, What is this guy doing here? but so Odysseus has has this kind of monkey on his back going, When I get home, I've gotta I've gotta do this in disguise. I can't make this a big hero's homecoming because who knows how or if I'm going to pay for the things that I'm going to do, whether whether the gods strike me down, whether there's there's, you know, whether there's some kind of Trojan assassin that's going to come after me, kind of thing. So to go into disguise and to slip into his own kingdom, so to speak. I mean, we we mentioned emotionality. In some ways this was this was the most affecting part of it for me because of a because it mattered because of everything that had come before. You know, the fact that he had to walk so carefully. Even, you know, on the on the other side of a screen of the woman that he loved, to be like, Okay, I've got to take this one step at a time and I've got to I've got to take back my kingdom from these people, but I've got to do it right, you know, so that we'll

speaker-0: It's like what Drew said, that journey was learning and preparing him for doing that. And you we we we don't get to see the actual war in Troy. We get snippets and it's only at the very end when he's talking to Anne Hathaway when you get the full horror of what they did. They are the bad guys. They just come in and and tore that city apart and you can just And you don't see many men get attacked. You th th the bits that pull to the camera, there's like slashing in the background of swords hitting men randomly, but the bits that you see human faces of is like a woman being pulled out of a of a building and throat slit and a child ⁓ being cut down. The men are just getting hacked away in the distance, but the people you see forefront to the camera are showing us that this group of people are killing innocents, not just soldiers. Yeah. So And that's why Matt Damon is like not really getting involved and he's just in shock and it is horrifying. And I think we needed that 'cause at the moment I thought there were war heroes and he even says, ⁓ Odysseus the war hero talking in the third person about himself but then when he plays it back, he he doesn't feel good about any of that.

speaker-2: Yeah, casualties of war. ⁓ I was gonna say, how clever is that twist though, as well, with ⁓ Athena? Because you think before when you first see it, you think she's a god or she's there to remind him to get home, but then you realise it was actually a poor, innocent woman that gets ⁓ that gets ⁓ decapitated. And that in itself is powerful with the statue, is the analogy for what he can't bear himself to remember, which I think is very

speaker-0: The head comes off, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah.

speaker-1: And I guess in in in the same way that the MVP of ⁓ like, you know, Avengers Endgame was the random mouse that stepped on the keyboard to to bring back the time machine. The actual MVP of this story, I feel, is the soldier inside the Trojan horse who it and it's very quick, he wipes off the blood from the blade that gets stuck in the guy before it comes back up. If he hadn't have done that, did you did you notice that? If he hadn't have done that, it's all over.

speaker-2: That's the bit I thought was really weird though, because w if you stabbed a wooden object and you pulled blood out, wouldn't you be like, hey, ⁓ you like why did he wipe? Why did he clean it?

speaker-0: To get

speaker-1: No, no, I'm saying there's a guy in the Trojan horse who wiped the blood off before it was pulled out. So there was no blood on the

speaker-0: Came out there was nothing there.

speaker-2: ⁓ I see he did it through his t shirt as it kinda like well not his T shirt, his Yeah.

speaker-0: Actually, it cut his back and then when he pulled it out, they cleaned it as it went out and held his mouth so he couldn't make a noise. So yeah, it's is it's very clear. But again, that that's where the sound mixing and stuff comes into again because even to hark back to like Oppenheimer and emotion and sound again, that end scene in Oppenheimer where it's the the explos he's seeing the children die around him in that in that auditorium and the volume is so loud

speaker-2: ⁓ wow, yeah.

speaker-0: that was emotional and the stamping of the feet and the build up, that was ⁓ crazy. But in this film we had those two as far as I'm concerned, apart from the music being a constant build-up, which was incredible, kept you really going, but the two big screening moments with Lupita Nyongo when you remember that Agamemnon threw his toddler infant daughter into the sea as a sacrifice before he went sailing to be a sacrifice to keep him safe when he's you know, you have to suffer to able to get rewards is what he says, something along those lines. Yeah. So when he comes back, his wife just stabs him. But when she does it, she thrusts forward into his throat, screams that was so loud in in the IMAX theatre. Yeah. And then again at the end when Anne Hathaway screams at Tom Holland because she doesn't want to comply. Hidden them

speaker-2: When she says that world is gone. Like that line that they had in the trailer is she delivers that line so well.

speaker-0: Yeah, that scream was visceral. It was so it was so impressive and you just felt it. You kind of stop dead. You're when you're you're passively watching, and when you get certain moments like that, you literally go you sit back and kind of have to take it in. But yeah, I th I think it like we said before, it does wrap up nice and nice is the wrong word, but satisfactory, or all all the there's no kind of loose ends really, you know. can't really make a sequel really on something like this. Which you wouldn't want to either. But to fit a big story into three hours, it sounds like a long film, but how's a lot fit in?

speaker-1: Odyssey two electric boogaloo or whatever.

speaker-2: finished though, I I was like, I could have watched another hour of that. Like that's how you know it's that good. When it just

speaker-0: You've gone to see it twice, which is already in the first week. Yeah. And my mate my mate Ryan's gonna see it on Friday. He's I alright, we saw it a week late. I was the first human to book in the IMAX. It was me and my mate on on our own. I booked it, I pre booked it. When I checked it the day off, there was no seats left at all. Not one. Like who's sitting at the front with like a crooked neck watching that screen? Mental. But When we got out the cinema, I was I dropped Ryan back at his house. He was like, I'm off next a couple of days, next week. I might just ⁓ see how I feel and go and have a look at it. I'm like, I know it's only been like two weeks, but you probably need to book that today. And he messaged me today going, A book for like Friday morning at like eleven o'clock or something. It goes, I'm sandwiched between two people. That was the only spare seat near the middle. So two and a half weeks later, on a Friday morning during work hours It still done fairly got a seat. So to talk box office, and I've got a comparison which is gonna, if you don't know, is gonna shock you. So this is how what's the word to use? It's drastically outpacing Oppenheimer on its opening weekend. But we know the budget of this film is around two hundred and fifty thousand. So plus expenses, you need to make a decent amount back before you're even in profit. Opening weekend. Two hundred and sixty four million. So it's clear on the first weekend. So the next two weeks that's that we're in currently is just pure profit pretty much. Because he didn't do loads of marketing really. It was just a couple of trailers in you know, Zenday on Tom Holland on a red carpet. He didn't do loads of st doesn't need to. He is the event. But the comparison is How much do you think Disclosure Day did on its opening weekend? Did you see Disclosure Day, Andrew?

speaker-1: N ⁓ no I didn't. ⁓ Spielberg I mean like yeah, I I like Spielberg, ⁓ but I did I did ⁓ miss that one. Yeah. ⁓ how much did that one do?

speaker-0: Forty four million.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: And it cost about three hundred million to make plus a lot of marketing, whereas U ⁓ whereas Odyssey didn't do a lot of marketing in comparison.

speaker-1: There's a bit of a passing of the torch there, isn't there? You know, gener generationally for ⁓ for filmmakers, I think.

speaker-2: Wasn't he a he was advertising the Odyssey almost like a year ago, right? And people were already buying tickets a year ago.

speaker-0: Spend hundreds, if not a thousand pounds, to buy a ticket in the seventy millimeter screens, of which there's very few.

speaker-2: Which was almost last year if I'm if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, 'cause 'cause they were saying, How on earth is a director selling tickets to a film that hasn't even been released yet till next year? He's got his tropes because he always releases on July the seventeenth. That's his kind of go to

speaker-0: A year ago, yeah. Yeah. And that's the reason that I'm annoyed about Spider Man. They could have delayed Spider Man another week because I can't see an IMAX. It doesn't exist in IMAX. I've got to see Spider Man on a normal screen. It's out next week and IMAX is controlled only by Odyssey for probably a month and a half, I'd expect. Yeah, yeah.

speaker-2: Well, 'cause that's the other thing we know then he does it for a hundred days or something.

speaker-0: Well, ⁓ Doomsday was meant to be around now. Remember Doomsday was meant to be before Spider Man, both in the summer, and they pushed Doomsday to Christmas because of Odyssey. Because no one wants to go toe to toe with the Odyssey. No one will go toe to toe with Nolan ever.

speaker-1: Speaking of trailers that did nothing for me, Doomsday, like I I mean, I this is another thing that's changed for me in the last few years. ⁓ Endgame was was the end of of the Marvel cinematic universe for me. ⁓ I I feel like endings in in films are really important and we're never gonna see an end of it. And that's gonna affect how I feel about it. Like I just I just don't I don't care. I'll probably go see it just because everyone will be talking about it. I don't want to be left out. But like I'm just I'm not there anymore. Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah w I'm excited for the X Men side of things and a few of the other little bits and bobs, just ⁓ but it is just turning up to be like just just hire everyone and put put shit together. To for them to all have a significant role in the film is impossible. Yeah. Think about how many significant actors there were in the Odyssey. Even if you take away some peripheral characters, there's still there's still like fifteen people, maybe a bit more. In Doomsday, there's like sixty people that have got to get screen time. And how are we gonna fit all that in? Yeah.

speaker-1: And for what it's worth, guys for what it's worth, it's the same in Melbourne in terms of IMAX Melbourne is booked out, Odyssey is booked out for a month in advance. I I do feel like this is this this feels to me like the first film since ⁓ since maybe the Hobbit films, where there are so many different ways to see it. You might remember that they had like a ⁓ a you know a high frame rate, which I think looks rubbish, but you know, you you do you. ⁓ a high frame rate option for that and and all those things. Whereas here you've got ⁓ you've got the IMAX, you you've got seventy millimeter, you've got ⁓ we have some cinemas here that are like f they call them four D X where you know things shake and move and and that kind of thing.

speaker-0: You don't wanna see that in this that that's no.

speaker-1: What what's going on in the pig scene is what I'm wondering.

speaker-2: Yeah.

speaker-0: Twilight X was fun. I've been to it a few times, but never again. It was good for like a racing film or something like that. Otherwise it's rubbish.

speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ and and like, yeah, w when Nolan is doing well, the whole industry's doing well. So so I think we all know how important this film is. And I I think I read somewhere that the US domestic box office is on track this year for its highest taking since pre COVID, which is massive. And this has not just come out of Odyssey, it's come out of the runaway success of of independent horror session. Things that we didn't we we weren't anticipating this twelve months ago that would see That we would see these kind of trends. Yeah. It's it's really cool. Cool.

speaker-0: Ever.

speaker-2: What are your top five Nolan films? Shall we shall we jump in on that?

speaker-0: Why why don't we do what ⁓ an another another podcast does, but I mean it's a different way of doing it, but they call it ⁓ the Mount Rushmore of films, which obviously has got the four presidents on it. Odyssey's gotta be in there, so that's like a given now. Now we've got to pick the other four and we've all got to agree on the last four, as opposed to me saying four, you saying different four. We've all got to agree on the top four.

speaker-2: ⁓ okay.

speaker-1: Okay.

speaker-2: So Odyssey is is one of them and then it's the other three, right?

speaker-0: Four. So five in total. So Odd is one, pick four more.

speaker-2: Okay, who's going?

speaker-1: Okay, so it's it's yeah, cool. If five's five, we'll we'll we'll chuck one in there. ⁓ so Odyssey we're putting it on there, or I would put it on there because it feels like I mean, again, when was the last big historical epic? Was it, you know, the remake of Ben Hur that did nothing, you know, a couple of years ago?

speaker-2: I was gonna ⁓ I was gonna say ironically it felt like Lord of the Rings was the biggest

speaker-1: It feels it feels like a generational kind of of film in that way.

speaker-0: With the ⁓ with the skeletons running with the swords and stuff like that. In the Argonauts, yes.

speaker-2: The argonauts.

speaker-1: See, that was a big thing for like my father. He tells me stories of seeing that in cinemas and how that was a touchstone moment, you know. So so I think Sancho might might say

speaker-2: That's our version of this.

speaker-1: ⁓ look, I'm gonna say The Dark Knight. I I just think it is so it has such a strong identity. ⁓ you know something has such a strong identity when there's there's an absolute universe of memes about it. You know, you can't make memes about something that doesn't that doesn't do anything. But I think I mean, you know, and so much of it is Ledger's performance, but I think it it just it feels like its own kind of big Greek tragedy just set in a a comic book world, you know, these These larger than life characters and their philosophies clashing and ⁓ it's still I think it's still

speaker-0: film is it it's it's more than a comic book film and it's not just Heath Ledger like you say everyone does like you know from Gary Oldman to you know everyone nails and the style of it and the story and I I've revisited it a few times recently and it still holds up. I know it's not exactly old but so much has changed I think it was that 2008 or something. Yeah so much has changed in the world in the last fuck almost 20 years that that should be the outdated but Because Christopher Nolan doesn't over the egg CGI or anything like that, nothing can look dated because everything's practic when it's practical, you can't get outdated by technology.

speaker-2: And remember the opening was so exciting 'cause it was the first bit shot in IMAX, just that whole opening sequence.

speaker-0: ⁓ mate, that bit in the bank and the all those little touches. ⁓ mate, yeah, that gives me goosebumps. Just forgot all about that scene entirely there. Yeah. Dark night, hundred percent.

speaker-2: That's all mine. Yeah.

speaker-0: I I know Drews, so I'll say mine. I'll I've got to go for one I don't think anyone else would have gone for, Oppenheimer. I no I I know it's recent, but I went to see that three times in IMAX in ten days when it came out with the Barbenheim because I s I saw Oppenheimer and then straight after I saw Barbie ⁓

speaker-1: I did the same yeah.

speaker-0: I wrote a report about Barbie on Instagram going, What the fuck was that? I didn't get it and I was a bit dismissive of it. And then I had loads of hate and one of my friends, female friends, ⁓ who ⁓ live who's a guest on here who's especially quite ⁓ a feminist and I'm a feminist myself, but it doesn't mean I have to like a film just because of that. And I didn't get it. And she said, What? I'm really disappointed in you. There's more to it and I went I went and saw Barbie again Like a few days later, fresh. And because it because the Barbie world is so jarring that it's so weird to get your head around. But when you see it fresh, it is phenomenal. Barbie for me is a five star film. I was so wrong. But it was 'cause I just came out of a depressing, full on male centric epic into like a silly Barbie movie that's got deeper moments I didn't notice. But yeah, Oppenheimer, it blew me away. I had to see it three times. I don't think I could see Oppenheimer three times this week, put it that way, maybe a second time. Killian Murray just everything's amazing.

speaker-2: ⁓ the Odyssey. That wasn't mine.

speaker-0: I didn't think you'd say it as the main one for this though. 'Cause you're gonna say inception.

speaker-2: Yeah, yeah. Inception is my number one because just how I felt in two thousand and ten, like that was just

speaker-0: And twenty eleven and and twenty twelve and in twenty thirteen. And in twenty fourteen you felt that way as well.

speaker-2: Yeah, I always talk about it. Yeah, and actually in twenty twenty six I said Inception twice in my latest video talking about the Odyssey.

speaker-1: Yeah. I look, I I would put Inception on mine as well, even though I think I have cooled on it. because I remember how impactful it was to me the first time I saw it. I remember I remember what I wrote on Facebook after I saw it in twenty ten. I think I said Inception made sweet love to my brain. It's the film of the year or something like that. You know what I mean? ⁓ I think I've cooled on it because

speaker-0: But those are so cringy from that.

speaker-1: I just think my my horizons have expanded a bit in terms of what I look for in a film. I mean, I mentioned that none of Nolan's films move me emotionally particularly. And and I I suppose that is that is an area of my film palette that I I maybe value a bit more now, rather than just the intellectual size and the puzzle solving of it all. I'll also say that I made a bit of a faux pas where, ⁓ not long after Inception came out when it was on on DVD, ⁓ I think I went I went somewhere for a get together or I had people over and we were going to watch a movie together and I I put forward that we should do Inception and it just like it just wasn't the vibe. It just wasn't the vibe for like a casual get together with a bonfire. Like you you have to lock in. So that was my mistake. That was a bad choice. So I thought you absolutely, absolutely. I think I've I've been colored by that, but I still think, you know, as an as an original ⁓

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: As an original film, ⁓ you know, maybe inspiration from Paprika ⁓ notwithstanding, ⁓ as an original film, ⁓ still I I think was really gr ⁓ broke some new ground at that point. I'm really struggling with with my number four on the Rushmore. I need a little bit more thinking time, so I'll let I'll let you guys ⁓

speaker-0: So with exception, I saw it came out in IMAX last year, and I I saw it twice when it first came out, 2010, eleven, and never again. So it's just been in my brain of I can't quite remember what the confusing bit was. I know it was confusing, and then I saw it literally last year for the first time in like fifteen years, I guess, and it blew it was like seeing it for the first time. It it was so and I understood it more as a more of an adult, I guess, I don't know. But it it made perfect sense to me that that time, even though there was ambiguity in bits, but I loved it. it went it went from a film that everyone should like and yet everyone talks about to, ⁓ it is actually good. People don't just talk about it for the sake of it. You know, it's not I hate it when people talk about what was what's the phrase? That bro films or whatever. You know what I When it's all like a man film. ⁓ True, you said your top

speaker-1: A Jason Statham film, yeah.

speaker-0: quite that bad. Remember when we were in in Camden and you were like, ⁓ I don't let these films to come across as too bros whatever. Right too manly, like when people talk about ⁓ they just like it 'cause it's a man film but I don't think it is a man film. I think it's just a great film.

speaker-2: ⁓ yeah, Yeah, Inception's a great film. Inception's a great film.

speaker-0: Yeah, I'm guessing I r I'd reckon the fifth ⁓ obviously I know Mount Rushmore's four, but because you want to do five, I was like taking op Odyssey out of the equation 'cause that's a guaranteed. So the top four is Dark Knight, Oppenheimer, Inception, and it's I was gonna go Dunkirk, but I think it would be Yeah.

speaker-1: I'm having trouble big just because it's been like ⁓ Prestige was the first Nolan film I saw, I'm pretty sure. So so maybe that's it for me. But it's also been ages since I've seen it. So I'm finding it hard to make a good assessment. One thing I will say though is that we're talking about Rushmore. Tenet Tenet can be the bloody dude that I drop kick off the mountain. Tenet can get in the bin, as far as I'm concerned. I walked out of that so pissed off. And it's mostly because of what I mentioned before, which is the sound mixing. It was so egregiously bad, along with the fact that everyone is wearing masks. Like I thought I was off Nolan forever after Tenet. That's that's how much it pissed me off. So Tenet can get in the bin.

speaker-2: Strong. That's why that's why people loved ⁓ Oppenheimer.

speaker-0: Strawberry. Yeah, because the sound was incredible.

speaker-1: Yeah, and it was it was a bit of a a comeback film, I suppose, for those that had that thing.

speaker-2: Trying get your head around it. Yeah. That was actually something somebody said about the Odyssey. They said it's the most known but like unknowland film in the sense that it doesn't have ambiguity, it is wrapped up neatly, it's not a complete head fuck. It's like the most anybody could go into it and not go, ooh, what does that mean? Or what does that mean? It's kind of it it's got its own transparency of understanding, even though I think when you revisit it. It has deeper layers to it.

speaker-1: Mm.

speaker-0: I'm just trying to see who did the music for Tenet because I feel that the sound's been amazing, especially

speaker-2: It's l it's Ludwig.

speaker-0: Ludvig ⁓ Goronsson. Did did ⁓ did he do that as well?

speaker-2: Yeah, he did ten at yeah, he took over. He did ten at and then carried on.

speaker-1: Also, Kennis Branner, I'm sorry, he was in a different film to everyone else. And it was it he was so OTT over the top. ⁓ anyway, ⁓ let's ⁓ let's ⁓ don't don't let me run away and hate on Tennet too much.

speaker-2: Can I say though, if Andrew, if you're down with this, you wrote an incredible poem, ⁓ kind of about Barbenheimer, I believe, but it's got loads of little other kind of Nolandesque things in it. Could could you could you share that with us? 'Cause I know how amazing it is, but

speaker-0: I think it would be a perfect ending. Yeah. Take up your entire morning, man. It must like what, seven thirty, six thirty AM still?

speaker-1: I could love to. It is. I'm I'm I'm wondering whether I go and have a a quick nap before I start my my working from home day. We'll see. But yeah, more than happy to do to do the poem. And if we wanna, you know, if we wanna finalise the rushmore after that, I'll I'll leave that up to you guys. So yeah, this is a piece I wrote called Barbenheimer. I did the same thing as you, Kev, where I saw ⁓ the double feature, the Oppenheimer and Barbie, ⁓ with some friends. ⁓ it was a it was a great, great time. And yeah, this is a piece inspired by that. ⁓ There's a couple of scattered thoughts about masculinity in it. and also some fun little film references. So ⁓ I thought it would be appropriate for this. So I'm just gonna get some water and I'll jump into it. All right, so this is Barbenheimer. If people are out there and they've never heard of spoken word peace, this is just ⁓ one example. Hey adultface, time for some trubs. I've got an inner monologue so loud, I bet you can read the subtitles on my forehead. It tells me I wanna be in the room splitting atoms, the room splitting atoms, the room splitting the bill. In the restaurant, without the staff treating us like we're Hitler.

speaker-0: Thank you.

speaker-1: Just me and the boys transcending laws of physics, turning the world to glass, all the better to admire our reflections in. Are we men either great or nothing? And we've always fallen for them, those atomic blondes, because there's no chalkboard equation for the shape of her shoulders or the explosions in her eyes. We thought her a balm against the fallout of what we'd done, the founts of appreciation. But that's a box too stifling for her. And we've got our own packaging to break out of. Mine is like a mercenary vampire, but not in a sexy way. Because a mercenary is only out for themselves and a vampire, well, they don't go where they're not welcome. But we're vintage collectibles, dreadfully distinct, left on shelves within cells interlinked. We've all been pushed around. Well I will well I will we've all been taken for granted. Now I just want a formula for the future, one that doesn't end in a mushroom cloud. May I see it? Or like Aurora Borealis in your kitchen, is it all just smoke and mirrors and ash? And you mean to comfort saying only time will tell. But look at what you're pointing at. It's a doomsday clock. Thank you.

speaker-0: Jesus. That was cool, man. I loved a little bit of Matchbox 20 slipping in there from Barbie as well. That was good.

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. That was that was one of my favourite parts of ⁓

speaker-2: The blade I love the blade twenty forty nine interlinked with the with the can meets Goslin is

speaker-0: Genius. That was a performance. I like the fact you took a second, you're quiet. I was like, is he just looking for his notes? No, no, you're about to do a performance.

speaker-1: That was full of them.

speaker-2: He he does the slam. He does the slam part, man, so

speaker-0: Yeah, mate, Slam Dunk the Funk. That was great. That was great. You mixed up. It wasn't just a poem there was breaks, there was fast bits, slow bits, just the tempo. It was engaging rather than just speaking randomly as well. But Drew doesn't Drew speaks so so well and does so so many different cadences and those sort of things, like what you just did there was super engaging. You couldn't look away. So yeah, thanks guys. Thank you for sharing that.

speaker-1: Yeah, it wasn't. I told you dude I

speaker-2: Sorry, I was gonna say as soon as I heard that poem, well, read it because you sent it to me, I was like, man, we need to get Andrew performing this, because I was like so good. So good, dude.

speaker-0: Yeah, and reading it's good, but hearing it adds a different element for sure.

speaker-2: Yeah, yeah. I mean, when you read it you're blown away, but the performance, like you said, it's just psh next level, man.

speaker-1: And that's that's what ⁓ spoken word or slam is all about. It's it's writing to be performed rather than just read. So things like ⁓ yeah, the dynamics of the sound, how you use your voice and your body become more important. So that's what kind of ⁓ sets it apart from just not sorry, not just but sets it apart from from page poetry.

speaker-2: It's it's it's almost like monologuing as well in a in a way, right? It's like poetry meets a monologue in the coolest possible way. So it's got that theatrical element to it. It's yeah man.

speaker-0: I feel like if you're alive and standing up you'd be all you'd be very animated and all over the place, not just not just doing that. You'd be like all over all over. That's why Drew would be good at it as well as an actor as well. He's got he's got you'd be putting a lot of into it, into it for his body and his performance, not just his vocals. So yeah. So just a reminder, everyone listen out there, go and listen to the I think therefore I slam podcast.

speaker-1: ⁓ I am

speaker-0: especially to listen to the episode where our beloved Drew joins Andrew on the episode. It is genuinely brilliant. As I said, Drew comes across very intelligent. I don't know how he managed it. ⁓ but very funny and very charismatic as we know he is. So go and give that a listen. I will we'll put a link in the show notes as well. So go and have a little look. But yeah, thank you Andrew for coming on, especially between five and seven AM in the morning in Australia. That was Dedication. Super cool.

speaker-1: Guys, I've ⁓ I've loved this so much. Like I said, it reminds me of of of doing ⁓ film podcasts of your and and yeah, just really ⁓ really grateful that we were able to to really get into the grit of ⁓ what is a fantastic film that ⁓ everyone should go see.

speaker-0: Amazing. Yeah. Thank you very much, Andrew. And ⁓ I'll let you know when it all goes out. It should should actually go out tomorrow. I'm gonna do it pretty quickly, hopefully. I'm gonna edit now. All right. Thanks a lot for listening, guys. See you next time. Bye bye. Bye bye.

speaker-2: This has been Rage Whale. Thanks for hanging out with us. We hope you had a whale over time.

speaker-0: Thank you all for your continued support and please check out our back catalogue of fun episodes with many brilliant guests. Just to remind you, Ragewell is on Spotify, Amazon, Apple and YouTube, where you can follow and subscribe so you don't miss our next episode. Also you can find us on Instagram and TikTok for fun clips from the show. There are links there for Rage Well merch as well as our email address if you want to send us a question or your movie opinion. We always love hearing from you. Thanks again for spending your time with us. See you next time.