Scene Interpretation: Alright, welcome back. This is episode two of Scene Interpretation. I am Dr. Sophia Murphy, a licensed therapist here in Tempe, Arizona. ⁓ and I am a Cinephile through and through. And today I get to talk to a really great friend of mine about another movie that I absolutely love. Spoiler alert, yes, I have a t shirt because I'm obsessed. This is Lexi. If you want to introduce yourself, we're gonna be talking about The Matrix. Hi, I'm Lexi, and when Dr. Murphy had said You know, do people have movies they haven't seen? I thought I would be a good person because there's so many iconic movies I haven't seen. Love it. And this was one of the ones I like threw out there, and she was like, I love this movie. And after watching it, I also love this movie. Woo! Spoiler alert. Yes. I need to watch the rest now. So it was really cool. This is exciting. So what I'm hearing is you may be back because it sounds like you have a large repertoire of movies that people are consistently telling you you need to watch. Yes. So I'll ask Myself to that list. This is great. Yeah, so The Matrix is one of I would say the biggest cult classics of probably a generation. So what I would like to start with is given that it has so many references, the red pill, the blue pill, it's influenced pop culture in so many ways. ⁓ knowing that it was a classic, did you have any pressure on how you thought you were supposed to feel watching it? And then how did that compare to how you did feel watching it? Yeah, so I think I thought it It would be like more techie and I didn't think I would like it as much as I did. Okay. ⁓ yes, I saw like the red pill, blue pill. I was like, ⁓ that's like where that came from. Yeah. And then like obviously I knew like the defying gravity moments, like because they're iconic, so I've like knew that was attached to the matrix, but didn't fully understand it until I watched it. Totally fair. So that was pretty cool to be like, ⁓ okay. Yeah. So putting those feelings together. So it sounds like with Without even seeing it, you kind of thought maybe this wasn't gonna be a movie for you, but then having watched it, now it sounds like it was maybe better than how you had imagined it in your head. Yeah, absolutely. I did not know if I would like it, but when Dr. Murphy said it was one of her favorites, I was like, Okay, it has to be decent. Like and even my boyfriend was like, It's such a good movie, you've never seen it. He told me I was going to be confused the whole time, but I actually was not. ⁓ well that sounds like a conversation to take back today that you You actually connected with it. I'll have to figure out what made him think he would be confused. I mean, to be fair, that was one of the things that surrounded this movie when it first came out. Yeah. So I remember kind of very similarly I don't remember trailers and hype and things being quite as big back then as they are now. I mean I know as we were like in the Jurassic Park era, there's a lot of like cross-marketing with like fast food and things like that. So I'm sure it did exist. But for this movie specifically, I don't have a ton of memories of all this buildup to the Matrix. So when When it was like kind of being advertised and yeah, all that like green and black tech stuff, I was thinking the same thing. Like I don't really care about a movie about computers. But back in the day, because I'm old, when you couldn't buy tickets in advance, people would wait outside to get seats. And so I distinctly remember seeing people lined up, especially once it was gaining momentum, and I'm thinking like, what am I missing? Yeah. So I had a very similar experience too, where it wasn't on my radar, I didn't care about seeing it, then once it dropped, it was all people talked about. You have to see this. This movie, how to see this movie, it's mind blowing the special effects, it's actually really like deep and talking about other things. And I had a very similar experience of like, I don't think I'm gonna understand this because I'm not a computer kid, and then I loved it. Yeah, and I just remember sitting in the theater thinking, A, how did somebody come up with this story? Like, how is someone so smart to come up with this concept? And then B, how did they pull this off? Yeah, and like that was one of the things I commented was like, this was 27 years ago, yeah. ⁓ which is kind of crazy. Like watching it now. and when it came out in ninety nine I was only five. So that could have been a big reason why I didn't really it wasn't on my radar 'cause I was a five year old, so like I don't think many five year olds were watching the video. Yeah. So I'm like, maybe that could have had something to do with it, but I'm happy that I didn't watch it until now because I'm like, bro This is insane. Like those were like my notes. I was like, okay, I'm scared now. So that's actually a great segue. So kind of walk me through the moment when you were realizing what the matrix was, and how did you feel? So I felt a little scared, honestly, because they talk about AI. So I'm gonna go to my note of what I wrote. So I said, Morpheus finally explains the matrix, and humans destroy mankind with AI. What the fuck? This was 27 years ago. So I have never used Chat GBT. I have a smart brain. I prefer. With a smiley face. Yes. I don't know why I've always been like a little scared of AI. Not that like because I know it's so engulfed in our lives now. Like even if you log on to social media, it's AI now. Yeah. Like everything is AI, so it's hard to get away from it. But it was kind of scary. And then I put questioning why everything is AI. Clients tell me, because I'm actually a hairstylist, so I ⁓ work with people and very closely they tell me lots about their lives. ⁓ so that's what I mean when I say clients. So my clients tell me that their jobs are diminishing due to it. So I've had people tell me that about like 70% of their HR is getting laid off and getting replaced with AI, yeah. and stuff like that. So it was a little crazy, and I was like, okay, the Matrix came out 27 years ago. Why don't we learn from this stuff, you guys? Like, I'm a little scared. and I I think I put somewhere else too. Humans are no longer born, we are grown. We become crop, livestock, no longer top of the food chain. We've created machines superior to us. I think you nailed it. Yeah. I mean, honestly, just in that sentence too, you've described the entire play of the movie. But I have a very similar experience except sort of in the inverse. So when this movie came out, we had no AI and computers were very rudimentary, right? Like we were just kind of getting into that space. ⁓ I don't Remember exactly when like AOL came out and like chat and stuff like that, but it was kind of in that vein, right? Like, we're going into the 2000s, and I kept thinking, like, what a terrifying idea that we could create technology that would supersede us to then turn us into essentially food, yeah. And how could we ever allow that to happen? And so I think over the years, my fear of AI is actually very much driven by seeing The Matrix as a kid, seeing it as almost like a cock. Cautionary tale, yeah, and then watching us create and like almost bring to life the storyline with absolutely like seemingly no fear, yes, or care about the possible consequences, even though we had amazing artists creating stories around the dangers of this 27 years ago, to your point. So I think it's fascinating because I feel very similar about AI, yeah, and I get a lot of criticism of you know, you need to engage with it so that you're not left behind. And for me, I I feel very cautious, especially in my field. Very human driven, I don't want to feed into a machine that's negatively impacting human engagement and the human experience. Yeah. And like I have a lot of people, because like I said, I work with people, they use Chat GPT to even like create a text, a response. And that's what I mean when I say I have a smart brain. Because to me, I'm like, I feel like I can create my own responses, I can do certain things, ⁓ things like that. Even we see it like McDonald's. Donald's fast food restaurants, now it's like tablets and they don't really even have workers up front. Yep. ⁓ so again, like it's taking away from like humans in some sense. I do get like I shouldn't say I get, but I understand that people do have this ⁓ opinion that we need to just like go with it. Yep, but it can be a little terrifying because these computers are more intelligent. I don't know, also like iRobot, like there's a lot of movies. That we like foreshadow things and ⁓ yeah, I just feel like It's so accessible now that people are using it so much that they're not being as creative maybe as they used to be. On their own. Even like people use AI to like generate art, even. Yes. ⁓ like a lot of things I've noticed. so yeah, that's what I would say. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And and I have a lot of fear around again, not just the human relational piece, but the fact that we're not challenging ourselves anymore broadly, of course some of us are, but broadly we're sort of moving to the space where we're not challenging ourselves. On Chat GBT or Claude or whichever you know system we want to use, and the fact that now it's causing us to question what's real and what's not, which is what I think really gets to the heart of the story, too, right? Like now we're getting to a place where just because I see it on social media or on the news or whatever, is that real or is that AI? Absolutely. Are those even real people I'm looking at in this photo or in this video, or is it all computer generated? Yeah. And even since this movie, up until the very recent present, I was not questioning. what I was seeing as being real or not. Yeah. That's a very new phenomenon like the last ten years. And I think that's another part about this movie was that, you know, Neo's kind of living in this world. He's very unfulfilled. He's kind of a loner. And he has that sense that something's wrong and off or maybe just unfulfilling, but he doesn't know what. And so now we're kind of moving into this sort of space where we're questioning everything because it seems so bizarre and far-fetched. And the whole idea was that in the matrix they had created many, many versions over the years. And that when they gave humans this like utopia, they couldn't function and they would like break down. And so they had to wipe the matrix and start over. And they figured out that humans function best in this like state of misery and complacency, and that's the matrix. We're introduced to in the movie. And I kind of wonder how you see that maybe reflected in reality now of like we're kind of living in this weird drab, continually bad news laden, present reality. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I think that this is one of those movies that I would have to watch it a second time to get like all the messages. Sure. Certain things were picking up with me more. but It is crazy to you know, never know if what you're watching or what you're seeing is real or not. Pictures, movies, like even like you said, news articles. I mean, the AI is crazy now, so it's like hard to tell what's real, what's not. And similarly, like you were saying, connecting with the Matrix, there's multiple versions of like that reality. And like it's it was very interesting to see it all, especially like I said, twenty seven years later. and how accurate it kind of is. Yes. How terrifyingly accurate and applicable it seems right now. So I guess when Morpheus kind of talks about telling Deo, like I can only show you the door, you have to walk through it. What do you think about that when it comes to maybe our day-to-day lives now and like what we have to do to decide to make choices to either confront some of these things that we're talking about or go along with it? Yeah, so I think that very true. ⁓ information can be presented to people, but what they do with it is ultimately up to them. Mm-hmm. so I think that was kind of the message there is I can give you all the information, but if you don't want to utilize it and do something with it, yeah. There's you know, nothing that Morpheus could do to force him, right? It's like in Neo's brain, he has to do it. Yep. So I liked that because it kind of says two how I interpreted that is like sometimes I, you know, as a friend, as a mom, as a daughter, we try to guide people to what we see as an outsider, like, hey, this is like a really bad situation for you, or like, right, hey, this might not be the right move. And you can do that so much, but ultimately it's up to other people, like the choices they want to make. So that's also the message I was receiving when that part came up. Absolutely. And I think you said. It perfectly right, like that is something we encounter on a day-to-day basis, whether we're the receiving end, someone's trying to present us an option that we really still have to take the initiative, or we're trying to maybe illuminate an option for someone we care about while also recognizing they have to walk through that door. You can't drag them kicking out screaming, or you can, and it probably won't go well, yeah. so I guess if you were to have to choose between the red pill and the blue pill, what do you think you would pick? That's one of the biggest questions I remember coming out of Matrix. for decades. so am I Neo? Like, do I I don't know. That's so hard. Am I am I Neo or am I myself choosing it? Let's do both. Okay. I feel like if I was Neo I would choose the red pill, which brings you to the Matrix, right? Yeah, because he's had he has a super smart brain. And now I feel I have a super smart brain but not that smart. I don't even own a computer, okay? So like I'm not that like tech savvy. So if someone was like you can enter the matrix, I'm like, that's terrifying. I would probably just take the blue bill. Interesting. Yeah, I don't know. it seems like a lot and like fighting for my life and like stressful. So E yeah, I'm like, I like my life. I feel like I have a nice life. That seems insane. And I feel like my probability of like dying very soon would be very high. Yeah, I mean I think you also speak to kind of like that existential human, you know, kind of fork in the road is like, do I go with what I know and what I'm used to or do I challenge myself to put myself in a completely new foreign situation that maybe could illuminate a whole different way of being to me. 'Cause what's interesting about About I think that red pill-blue pill question is Neo's also being presented as like the key to everything. But clearly lots of humans in the story have taken the red pill and gotten unplugged to join the resistance to not necessarily be the one. Yes. And so I think about that in even current terms. There's a lot of things happening in our present day where I don't know if there's a one that's gonna like lead us, you know, to salvation. ⁓ and at the same time, like, do we want to be part of the resistance? Right? Very like Star Wars again, similar, like hero's journey coded messaging, or do I want to go along with what I'm used to? And I think you can phrase the red pill, blue pill that way too, is maybe you're not taking it to be the savior, but would you want to wake up if you found out that all of this was fake and we could unplug and be part of the resistance? See, in that sense, I always love like fighting for the cause. Like, yeah, I would want to fight for the resistance in that sense. I feel like I would just be terrified. Yeah ⁓ and also like I don't know like would I see my son again? Like things like that would be like hard. so that's why I'm like, if I was Neo and you know, like you said, his life wasn't much to want to go back to I think it's like an easier decision. But I would be like, can I like fight and be part of the resistance and then also like come back so like the the simulation like every now and again, you know, like can we do both? so it was very interesting. That's like the only word I have for it. Yeah. Just Like the whole concept and really makes you wonder like, are we living in a simulation? Like, what is going on? And would we want to know? Yeah. Would we want to be faced with what you're saying? Like that terrifying reality. Because also, and I think this is true again in a lot of stories that tackle like resisting against an oppression or an oppressor or both. That choice is also very stressful and very, you know, unsexy. I mean, like the real world when Morpheus finally shows Neo is completely destroyed. There's no sunlight, there's no No plants have to live deep underground, basically close to the core of the earth to live to be warm. So it's not a very ⁓ glamorous existence. It's really laden in doing like the right thing for the cause. Yeah. But the simulation at least looks like what we're used to thinking of as day-to-day life. Yeah. But then the argument is we're asleep and none of it's real. Yeah. So what's like the worse or the better choice of the two? Yeah. It is very it is it's a tough and And a trippy choice, right? Yeah. Which actually tied into one of my other questions, which was so Cypher's character, the one that really portrays them, chooses to go back. He wants to be plugged back in, he wants the simulation. If you remember that scene where he's meeting with Asian Smith and he's talking about I'm eating the steak and like my brain's telling me it's a steak and this is how it tastes, and he's the one that sets them up so they can capture Morpheus. But he's choosing after being part of the resistance to go back into the stimulation. I'm wondering what you think. Thought about that choice if you judged him at all, and again, kind of similar, like if you had seen both, what do you think you would do? So Cypher is the one that like unplugs everyone, right? Or like starts to unplug people at the end. Yes, because he's trying to kill them. Yeah. So okay, so now I'm confused, so maybe my boyfriend was right. so he goes back, but then he was unplugging them. So part of the reason he unplugs them is because he knows they're gonna try to stop him, because he's tr basically betrayed them. Okay. So he makes a deal with Agent Smith to put him in exchange to put him back in the Matrix, he's gonna unplug them. Basically his goal is to put himself back in the Matrix, he has to give them Morpheus. I see. But to give them Morpheus, he has to kill the people on the ship because they're gonna obviously try to stop him. ⁓ yeah. And I do remember the part about saying like it's all neurological, like your senses, what you're seeing, what you're tasting. I do remember that whole conversation. It's just you know, some things are back and forth. Sure. ⁓ So the original question was what I thought about him wanting to go back into the nature. Not the killing the other people. Yes, but just the desire to leave the resistance and return back to the simulation and basically be put back in the pod. See, I don't know. After that's the hard thing. I feel like after you know, it's hard to go back. And remind me, when he's presented the pills, he hasn't seen the bot, like how they're ⁓ how humans are yet, right? The red or the blue pill? Right. He has no idea. Yeah. So at that I feel like it's you know, you choose the red pill, you go that way. Once I would see it, I feel like I would want to be part of the resistance and stay part of the resistance. Yeah. But I feel like if I had a choice initially and I didn't know, I might just choose the blue because sometimes choosing things unknown can be scary, right? ⁓ so I think that that's why for me I was like, ⁓ I'd probably just choose the blue pill because I'd be ⁓ this is seems very overwhelming. I'm being followed around by Trinity and Morpheus, and random phone calls are happening. ⁓ ⁓ So that's kind of yeah, if I were to know what was going on, I don't believe I would put my body willingly back into that situation. And I think you make a good point, right? Like once you've seen behind the curtain, could I ever really choose to wipe and go back and make myself essentially again food ⁓ just so that I could have, I guess, that comfort of being asleep, being in the simulation, right? Plug me back in because the resistance. Is exhausting, or I don't believe in it anymore. Again, it's unglamorous. But and I think that ties into you kind of already answered this, but the movie's also grappling with the idea that some people just aren't ready to be unplugged. They're not ready to open their eyes and have that exposed to them, and and even I think tying it into current times. Like, what do we think about people who maybe rather kind of be blinded than be confronted with the reality? Yeah, absolutely. I noticed that too ⁓ when Morpheus was having a conversation with Neo. ⁓ And he said that he said something to that extent. Like we can't just unplug any person, you know, like you probably know what I'm talking about. I'm not gonna word it well, but I remember that happening and me thinking exactly that, like it's similar in the sense of unplugging people from what they are conditioned to believe or absolutely ⁓ so yes, I I understood that and sa whoa, sorry, and saw the similarities. Yeah, a hundred percent. All right, let's go back to some of your reactions. What else did you have written down? Okay. And we'll kind of pop back and forth. So this is really funny. So the very first part, Trinity is like dodging what would they be called? The resistance. So Trinity's part of the resistance. The people who are already unplugged, it's the agents. The agents, yeah. So she's sorry, I'm like trying to understand terminology. So I didn't understand at first like why she wanted to get to this telephone so bad. Right. And I literally put, why was the phone call so important? That was like my first note. ⁓ That's fair, you don't know the lore yet. Yeah. You have the world the world building. Yeah, I was like, what is going on? so you want to talk about some of my emotions? Yes. So Trinity finds Neo, lures him, seeking an answer for a question, and the answer will find you if you allow it to. Ooh, well said. So yeah, that's one of the things I remember is she's having that conversation really close in his ear, and she says something to that extent. And again, I think it's being open, right? ⁓ that's the bigger message is being open to that answer. If you're closed off to it, it's never going to come to you. You but if you're open to anything, I mean, being open to the idea of the matrix in and of itself is crazy, right? So you have to be pretty open that, like, this is happening, you're part of it, you're the chosen one. Otherwise, you know, the question he's seeking of like, what's my purpose is never going to happen. Absolutely. You actually tied into something else that I was gonna touch on, which this idea of like, do we really think that ignorance is ever bliss, right? So, like, if we're Stuck in these routines and we're not open to even what's being presented to us. Is not knowing ever the same as happiness, or is it just I don't know what I don't know? Yeah, I am not a fan of ignorance as bliss. ⁓ I don't really believe that saying to always be true. I mean, in some sense, like my grandmother, for instance, she was from the Middle East, she never spoke English. English ⁓ and she lived a very simple life. I mean, Middle Eastern women don't drive, they don't get jobs, like it's just not a thing. ⁓ and so my mom always used to say that my grandmother was so happy because she was ignorant. ⁓ yeah. And in a sense, because she was sheltered, ⁓ being, you know, just like she wasn't given much responsibility. She wasn't when she was here, she didn't speak English, so she didn't understand the news. She did understand football though. She loved football. ⁓ but But yeah, so and she was always just ignorant and happy and like my mom would say that. But for me, I would rather know the truth and have an opinion, have a say, have control over my destiny, over humanity, over you know. ⁓ that's just me. I feel like for me, ignorance would not be bliss. Yeah, I think that that's really well said. I that's kind of like an older trope of like what you don't know can't hurt you. Uh-huh. And I mean having kind of not kind of having dead My life to therapy and like helping people build insight, I actually really agree that what you don't know, I would argue, hurts you a lot. Yeah. Because this idea that just because you don't know it, it doesn't affect you or it's not influencing you, I actually strongly disagree with, right? So being ignorant or unaware doesn't actually shield you the way that I think we used to think it does. Yeah, absolutely. Like we're so influenced by just the world around us, ⁓ simulation or not, that the idea that just because I'm Not aware of it, it's not impacting me, I think, is actually kind of false and kind of dangerous. Yeah, and I think it kind of goes back to that, like you said, what you know doesn't hurt you. I always say that you know, lying to somebody, then they're gonna be mad about mad at you for two things. Sure. For the thing you're lying about and for lying, versus if you're honest, yeah, they can't say that you're a liar. You at least were honest with them. So I think that kind of ties into it is like ⁓ ignorance is bliss. it's like then you're kind of mad about two things you know you're mad about the reality and you're mad that it was hidden from you absolutely ⁓ versus being presented with it and given the option type of thing hundred percent all right what else did you have okay so this is really funny so his boss talks to him about being late at work if you remember that in the beginning I put that that's my biggest pet peeve is when people are late it drives me nuts. So I just had to put that because that was an emotion I was literally having was like annoyedness. Sure I was super annoyed and I like, I'm just gonna write this down because it's an emotion I'm feeling super random. When Neo says, Why is this happening to me? What did I do? I put I feel that a lot. ⁓ interesting. Say more. Yeah. So Neo, it's when I think in the big so it must be after Morpheus wants to help Neo. So he's on the phone with Morpheus, I think, and he's guiding him out of his office or wherever he is. Yes. And Morpheus briefly says into the phone, like, Why is this happening to me? What did I do? Mm-hmm. And I say that so much. I feel like sometimes I don't have control over what's happening to me in my life. ⁓ specifically like with my son and my son's father. It's just really challenging co parenting with him. Sure. ⁓ and so also having like Other things happen to me in my life where I'm just like, Why is this happening to me? Like when I was on vacation this weekend, ⁓ my friend had rolled down the window to look at the moon, and then my window just broke. And so it's actually at the shop right now. My boyfriend had to drive me here today. We had to tape it up and same thing. I was Why is this happening to me? What did I do to deserve this? Like, literally. ⁓ so I that's why I was like, I feel that a lot, like just that sense of like something instantaneously happens. Yeah, you don't do anything to warrant it, but now it's Like a wrench in your day or a wrench in your plan, and like I just resonated with him saying that for some reason. I appreciate you sharing that because I think again, like in that existential vein, that is probably an experience a lot of people have, right? Because I think there's these different schools of thought of how we make sense of our experiences, and one of them is that the world is very chaotic and things just happen, and there's not a lot of reason to any of it. We're just trying to navigate our way through it. But I think there is that other school of thought of like everything happens for a reason. So if something bad is Happening, there must be a reason that I just don't see, and I don't know what the right answer is. That I do think that's a very common experience where people are seeking out positive experiences because they do positive things, and then it's really challenging to make sense of the really negative hard things that happen to us when we don't understand what we could have done to make that happen or deserve it. And so it's kind of like interesting to think about like which train of thought maybe resonates more. Yeah, and then another thing I put was more. Morpheus said, a prison in your mind. And I liked that. I wrote like random quotes that I was like, ooh, I like that. Yes. because I do believe a lot of us are in a prison in our minds. ⁓ especially with social media and stuff. I've noticed I have friends that they'll delete their social media, they'll take social media breaks. Yes. ⁓ it's more common now, I'm sure people have heard of that, and they always tell me they feel so good. I have friends that never get back on social media. They're like, I don't know. It's just stressful, you know, especially seeing like all the things going on in the world today, like we were saying, and ⁓ it's like a prison in your mind that sometimes you can't get out of, and it really depresses you and brings you down, or even a prison in your mind in the sense of like if you allow yourself to overthink and be consumed by sometimes those bad things happening to you, right? Absolutely. whatever that may be in that moment, but you can feel like you're in a prison in your mind. So a hundred percent. And I think the idea again. Of like the matrix being the simulation, but the simulation looking like again what our understanding of the world was, because that's the perspective it was written from. And it is this sort of like drab day to day, go to work, do what you gotta do, and these routines where we get so stuck in autopilot. And so with social media, I think you make a really great point is like that's now become part of that autopilot. Like we hear this all the time. You open up your phone, you go on social media, you're scrolling, you don't even know what you're consuming. Yeah. It's just like part of what you do. Whether it's helping or hurting you. Yeah. It's like another version of the matrix of like, I just have to tap into this thing or plug into this thing. And I've not really stopped and thought about how it's affecting me. Exactly. And also, like, how I'm sure people are aware that a lot of what people post is all the happy stuff. Correct. So again, when you're going through this moment these moments of like, why is this happening to me? What did I do? And you see people like happy, happy, happy. Happy, happy. It's like it sometimes can amplify that. but the reality is people just post usually good stuff. ⁓ is also just as chaotic. I can vouch, like I said, as a hairstylist working with many people. Everyone is going through so much, they just usually hide it very well on their day-to-day. I think you're totally right, and I am grateful. I think we're having so many more conversations now around that social media reality. Faux reality, the impact on us, and hopefully, at least with adults, starting to slow down and recognize that yeah, I'm consuming all these things and I'm so tapped in, and none of it's well, very little of it's real. Yeah. Or the parts that are real are again completely ⁓ curated where anything negative or hard to balance that out is is not really shared. ⁓ yeah. People take happy family pictures, they're all like smiling, and I'll be like, ⁓ your picture is so cute. They're ⁓ I had to drag my kid kicking and screaming. screaming and like tell them they were getting ice cream if they smiled it was terrible. Like and so but in that picture you're like ⁓ happy little family but you didn't see the kid kicking and screaming to get to that picture and then like the whole argument in the car afterwards like you don't see all that right? Yeah or even the like 45 photos it took to get that one moment or the hundreds it took to get those five. Yeah you're totally right we've kind of created a different kind of prison where this little tiny computer in our hands also ⁓ Dictates so much of what we're measuring ourselves by. Yes. Like it's a fascinating reality, I think, to come up against at this point. Again, 27 years later, after this argument was made of like we're all asleep and we have no idea what's really going on. I know that's why I was like, this is a trip. Yeah. ⁓ another few emotions. I got chills when Morpheus breaks the chains when Neo and Trinity are like in the helicopter, yeah, trying to save them. Yeah, and the agents are there, and he like breaks the chains, like that part literally. It literally gave me chills. ⁓ and I think it's because I always love like that part in a movie, you know, seeing like t the rescue or the comeback. I always say that everyone loves a comeback. When my friends are like in low places, I always tell them, hey, this is the good thing is everyone loves a comeback. So like you're just gone, you're comeback now, you know? And so I just love moments like that. So that gave me chills and I put super sweaty palms. Literally my hands were like sweating because I get all excited. And I put, yes, Neo saves everyone. Literally, yes. I love it. Multiple A's, multiple S's, I love that pure emotional response. This is great. Yes. I got I like really loved when he saved everyone. I just feel like that protagonist in the story, right? I I just always love good endings. It was a really good ending. ⁓ and he was the one. That's what I put. I said I'm just tearing up at Tank saying I knew it, he's the one. Yeah. I like I said, I just get really emotional. So like I loved that part when Tank was like, I knew it, he was the one, because Neo had. Had that doubt, yes. ⁓ and I think even Morpheus stayed pretty true, but I could tell Trinity also had doubt because she said, like, didn't she say, or he said that the Oracle said he wasn't the one? Right. The Oracle told Neo he wasn't the one. Yes. So I think there was that doubt. And then he also told Trinity that, you know. ⁓ so there was like kind of this doubt in the movie like, is he the one? Is he not the one? You know, then they ⁓ like shoot him a bunch of times, and you think. Think he's dead and then he comes back. So when Tank said that, I don't know why, I just like started tearing up. I was like, I love this. Why am I crying on the Matrix? But I'm so glad you said that because I want to spend a little bit of time there because this is something that has always stuck with me. Is again like if you're following the story, we're told to see the Oracle as the all-knowing truth. And so this whole part of rescuing Neo from you know the Matrix bringing him into reality, taking him to see her, and then her affirming that he isn't actually the one and his doubts basically being reflected back to him that sorry kid it's not you and you're the cookie right yeah so what do you think is the reason knowing now obviously that he is the one in this spawned a franchise and there's a much bigger story being told what do you think the reason is that the Oracle told him he wasn't the one or affirmed for him that he wasn't the one? I have lots of thoughts too. You know, that's hard for me. Part of me wonders like, is the Oracle is the Oracle part of the resistance? Or is the Oracle a question being? Yeah. So I've read lots of theories over the years. I don't know that I have the right answer. But since the Oracle's basically kind of a a malfunction within the matrix, it's a computer program, right? It's part of the resistance and it also is kind of manipulative. Yeah. We'll call her she 'cause I think she's a she in the movie. But you're absolutely right. Like your gut is telling you, like, is she there to help or not? Yeah. So my interpretation over the years is it's both. Yeah. She has this knowledge because she's part of the computer system itself and she's been part of the reboots again of the ⁓ su the numerous matrices over the decades that we haven't seen since the world ended. So she has information. I do think she's there to help, but she also is manipulating the situation and those reasons I'm never quite sure about. Yeah. I wonder if she's manipulating the situation. It's hard because part of me wonders if Neo had to know in himself, not be told. And if she told him you're the one, then there might not be that same sense of like true internal belief. It's external, right? It's someone telling you rather than ⁓ against all odds, knowing in your heart what is true to you. Yes. So I think you nailed it, and you gotta go back and tell your boyfriend he was way wrong. It now again, this doesn't make me write. I did not obviously write or create this movie. Usually I'm really confused, but I think too because I took so many notes, and what's also funny is like there's the crops part I put, and then I put got chills at breaking the chains. He he wanted to read my notes this morning. He goes, You had no notes between that and that. And he's like, You had so many notes for the whole rest of the movie. And I was like, I was just so intently watching it at that point, yeah, absorbing it. Yeah, that I didn't write as many notes. ⁓ but I think I think it was because I was just so into it and trying to really like understand it. And I think also because I was asking, because I was like, why was the phone call so important? And I put, ⁓ the phone transports them. Like later I figure it out. So things like that were in the beginning, I may not have remembered even the phone call, but because I physically wrote it down, yes, it connected. It helped me piece it together better too. Yeah. Yeah. So what I think you said that nailed it though was that he had to figure it out for himself. And again, having rewatched this for so many years, having Having seen all the sequels, having read so many articles about it, I believe that version. Now, again, I don't know if that's what was intended, but to me that's what resonates. That if someone just tells you you're good or you're powerful or you're capable, we know this, right? We're very good at dismissing positive feedback and really good at latching onto negative feedback. And so I love the idea that maybe she intentionally didn't tell him for that reason, because the consequences of telling him he wasn't. the one may have outweighed any positives because he has to go on this journey and you could look at that as like a storytelling trope, you could look at that psychologically to get our buy-in too, right? Like if we know at that point in the movie he's the one, what are we watching the rest of the movie for? Yeah. So I really like that perspective that he needed to learn through action. He had to go through strife. He had to make that ultimate choice to save Morpheus thinking that he was gonna die. Because that is what the Oracle told him. That he would have to make a choice eventually. And so with that perspective, I like the idea that it forced him into his ultimate self-exploration of like, okay, I've built a relationship with these people. I know Morpheus is important. I'm willing to sacrifice my life to save him and through that process come to learn. No, I am actually the one and I'm capable of so much more than I thought possible. Yeah. Absolutely. back I guess to the oracle kind of telling him, you know, you're not the one. I it it does make you wonder like, is there ulterior motive or was it because yes, that was like part of the plan? Right. I guess though I view it as I think in some way it was like part of the plan. Like it all I I don't know, I just don't feel like he would have been as powerful in himself w like that self-knowing. I think there's a real power in self-knowing despite everything around you. And again, we see that with the resistance, like with even resistance in society. You know, people will tell you you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. ⁓ and sometimes there's instance Where we just know in our hearts that this is true. and there's a real power in that. I agree, and I think even just the idea that like you can cheerlead someone, kind of taking us back to your earlier point when we were talking about like you can show someone the door, but they have to choose to walk through it. You can cheerlead someone and be a support system for them, and at the end of the day, until they believe in themselves, it is always external. And it's not that the external doesn't matter, of course it does, but there is something about lived experience in And building a sense of self-efficacy and self-belief that I think is almost more powerful than just being cheerleaded. Absolutely. I think you need both. But I really was thinking about that and prepping to talk about it today is like I do think there's a manipulative aspect to the oracle, and at the same time, I really like the idea that it was part of his journey. He had to experience it to believe it, and telling him would not have made it made him believe it sooner. Well, also too, this is random and I don't know with all of your therapy if this is true or not. But I've heard, you know, people could give you twenty-five compliments, but if they give you one negative remark, it sticks with you. Yes. You know, like somebody can tell me a hundred times like they love my hair, but if one person was like, I don't like your blonde hair or something like that, it would make me constantly think, why'd that person say they don't like my blonde hair? So maybe it w there was some psychology to it because I feel like sometimes we focus on the negative or what we're being told we can't do. Yep. We push harder to defy it sometimes. Yeah. I agree with you. I do think that is just like part of the human psyche, is it's very hard for us to absorb those positives, especially in that ratio to one negative. Yeah. Like we are just so good at latching on to the one nasty thing that somebody said, Yeah. And we'll just sort of shoe aside all the lovely, wonderful, cheerleading things that people have said. Yes. So it made me wonder like if she had just told him that cheerleader thing, like, ⁓ you're the one. It just kind of gets brushed off, and he could just be ⁓ I'm the one. Okay, okay. But like, yeah, the sunglasses, but like, you know, then he starts defying the bullets and he starts like beating him up, and like, you know, then he goes into his body, and like so you can tell he really comes into his own in that point. ⁓ and I don't know that that would have happened if he believed he was the one. I agree. ⁓ Beginning. I wonder if what it would it have created almost a sense of complacency. Exactly. Where he wouldn't have had to struggle and question and challenge. And again, would he have risked his life for Morpheus if he'd been told and confirmed he was the one already? Yeah. Cause I also wonder, kind of to your point, with Trinity questioning whether he was the one, if his act of self sacrifice is that thing that clicked for her, because we think he dies, he gets shot all those times, and then she kisses him and says the order. Oracle told me I would fall in love with the one and I love you, so you must be the one. Yeah. But how much of that was also informed by his self sacrifice for Morpheus? Yeah. And it makes you wonder like, maybe the one was not determined until she fell in love? Like, is there like a now? We're getting really deep into love. It's the chicken in the egg. Which thing led to which or came first? And I that's why I love this movie is because it literally blew my mind as a young person. Like, this is like the most wild, beautiful relationship. Relatable, thought-provoking story, I think again, of a generation, and you just use computers as a vessel to tell it. Yes. And you know, the whole like using humans as energy. Yes. Like, and when he shows him the battery, I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, this is so like trippy and weird and gross. And to some sense, AI does need humans to function. They're not function with yeah, so, but you know, they need like the consumer, they need all this stuff. So yeah, it's like in some sense we are fueling them already. Yes. Even if it's not literally like we're being hooked up. Yes. In a sense, we do fuel that. Yes. So when I saw the battery, we are still the battery for AI. I mean, you're not wrong. That is pretty trippy. But think about how again we're you could argue we're creating our own demise. Yes. Right? Like we are fueling this technology that is becoming more powerful and more powerful, and we're trying to add sentience, which to me is the ultimate horror movie of giving these computers the opportunity to be thinking about what they're doing with this sort of hubris that that could never turn out poorly is also just a lot for my brain to make sense of in the here and now. Yes. Alright, anything else in your notes that we haven't got into yet? ⁓ not really. I think we got all of it. Okay. I've also put I got chills when Nia was setting up to fight again to keep fighting. Yes. I just love, like I said, those moments in a movie or even in life when people push through their breaking point and come out so much stronger. Like it's it always makes me emotional. It's always like a thing, like I'm a big crier. ⁓ I always cry happy tears. And then I put Neo as the one and it's like underscored in your notes. Yeah. I was like, ⁓ he is the one. Yes, absolutely. So it sounds like the emotions you had when it ended, would you say that you were relieved, excited? ⁓ did it feel more trippy, more creepy? Like what emotion word would you use kind of as it ended and you were like highlighting or underlining? This realization. I thought it was a really great story. It had a lot of different elements. It kept you on the edge of your seat because I was kind of in belief that he wasn't the one. And then especially like when he died, and then when he came back, you know, then I was like, you know, but there's still like the the sentiments that were coming in, or the sentinels. The sentinels, whatever they're called. Yeah. The sentinels were coming in, you know, and they were like waiting to do the EMP till Neo woke up. And so like it was a thriller. It kept me on the edge of my seat. He was really exciting. Honestly, I just wanted to watch the rest of them. ⁓ like I said, I just got back from a trip, like literally last night, started watching The Matrix, fell asleep. I always wake up early. I woke up this morning and finished watching it, so it's super fresh in my brain. And I was like, I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna watch the rest of the Matrix. Like, I'm so excited. Yeah. So it was it just made me want to keep watching more to continue to see where the story goes, you know? Absolutely. And it's a huge story, yeah. It ends up being an epic, interwoven, I think, incredibly written concept, which I love where it goes. ⁓ the graphics get a little wonky in number three. I'm not a huge fan of because the computers were also evolving and what they could do evolves. ⁓ but I thought they and I thought they brought it really back in number four. Yeah. Number four is much more grounded, ⁓ I think in in terms of the special effects. Yeah. So, kind of with that, let's talk a little bit as we're winding down about the cultural impact of the movie just in terms of what it was like to see it again it's a 27 year old movie what did you think about the graphics and the effects and how it hit you so in the beginning I noticed that yeah the graphics obviously were a little dated and stuff and I was like ⁓ is this gonna be like cheesy a little bit but I didn't mind it because the story was so good and I thought it got better like especially like with the sentiments it was like some of the fighting scenes you know they're a little like but it's 27 Seven years old. But as far as like the sentiments and like the when they show being plugged in and all that stuff, it was very good graphically, especially for what they had accessible at that time. Yes. ⁓ so I was very impressed by that. Like I said, when it first started, I was wondering like, am I gonna like this or not? Because I think it was in the beginning when Trinity was fighting the agents. Yes, and it's just all really fast, and like you know, I was like, I am confused, I have no clue what's going on, but I figured it out. ⁓ I think that's how we all felt seeing it. Yeah, this was the point. We're just along for the ride. Yeah. Like what am I seeing? Yeah. So, what was the question again? Just how the graphics and the graphics and the special effects and things hit you, knowing that it's so old. Yeah, so I mean, I thought it was d good though. Like in the beginning I was wondering if it was gonna be cheesy, but then I like forgot about it and didn't even care because the story was so good. Awesome. ⁓ and they got better, like I said, like when they were bringing out certain things and then when they're like using the EMP on his stomach, like all that stuff was not bad. Like it was pretty good for what they had at their time. Now it's like like we were saying, you can't even when they make movie graphics now with the AI and all the stuff they have. It's a little scary. It's so scary. Yeah. Well and I think that's one of the hard parts of seeing it so late is I'm sure just in your you know lifetime since then 'cause you were so young, you've seen so much CGI and so many advancements in technology in media that this looks old. I think that thing that I really cling to is when it had come out, I was not a martial arts fan. So I wasn't watching classic martial arts films. Like I knew who Bruce Lee was and Jet Lee and I just didn't have a lot of connection to that. So like seeing those fight scenes and to me was groundbreaking. Yeah. Especially 'cause they defy gravity, right? Yeah. They have these other sort of super set of skills in the matrix that allows them to, you know, free their mind and do all these things that you couldn't do in the real world. And to try to figure out how they did it always blew me away. Yeah. Right. And like learning again, becoming such a fan and watching and reading everything, like how much martial arts training they had to do. I think they all did a full four months of training before filming. And the fact that most of it was each of the actors, like very little stunt double work. And so I love the aspect of what they were able to pull off back then using a lot of practical effects. So I can't explain it. I'm not a tech person. I've read about it. And I've watched documentaries on how they pulled off the famous like defying gravity leaning back bullets and how they did all those scenes that apparently they invented some technology that now is very common to shoot it over and over and over again and then piece together all those images so it slows down and you can see the bullet like moving in time. Had never really been done before. Yeah. And so I love thinking about like what it contributed culturally and how it's been duplicated and replicated and spoofed. Yeah. Right? Like I always think of the scary movies. Yes. And how they, you know, made fun of those fight scenes and, you know, the flying up in the air to do the kung fu and all the different styles of martial arts. I just really appreciate what it gave us as a viewer too, not just the storyline. Absolutely. It was really cool. I will add to that. Like I did think all the backflips and stuff. Like I was like, wow, like that part was really cool. And I guess not thinking about it in that sense of like how they had to do that because I think I am spoiled. being as I've seen so much that maybe it was I shouldn't say less impressive but like less impressionistic. Yeah because like 31 now. But yeah like you said if I would have saw this in before 2000 when it came out it would have been groundbreaking. Yeah. And that's how I remember feeling again was like I I swear there was some like HBO special behind the scenes that showed you like they're all on wire. So like they're actually being lifted off the ground and like flipping around almost like ⁓ you know Cirque du Soleil style and it's so choreographed on film it just looks like they have this ability and like my younger brain trying to piecemeal like this is incredible like I'm so sucked into the story and then to see the behind the scenes of how they did it I just think that you can't underestimate ⁓ or you can't minimize the impact that what they pulled off really gave us. Yeah. And if you're ever bored and you get into like all the history of them trying to make this movie the Wikowski sister And like what they were able to do and how their budget was supposed to be like all this money and it got slash and they were still able to pull off all this stuff. It's really inspirational too to read their journey and like how this has now become one of the biggest franchises in movie history. Yeah. It was kind of like the little engine that could, and I love that part of it too. I give it tons of credit for that. Alright, so as we're wrapping up, just a couple last questions. ⁓ if you're thinking maybe like a week from now, what image or line from this movie do you think will be living? living rent free in your head. Like what's really gonna stick with you? I feel like I knew it, I knew he was the one. Like I just loved that when Tank said that. Like it was just so cute. Yeah. ⁓ I loved that I loved him in the helicopter. Like Neo, I should be more specific because him is vague. Neo in the helicopter, you know, with the Trinity flying and they're trying to save Morpheus. Like I love that part. It was very like I don't know, it just warms my heart. I love that. It's evocative. Yes. Brought ups and feelings. Yes, you have better ⁓ words than I do. so I really liked that. And again, like I don't know why, but like the wh why is this happening to me? Like you said that even though that's probably so small dialogue that no one really caught on to, maybe. It's the one that's it stuck to me, but it also made me think, like you said, sometimes it things might be happening for a greater purpose. Right. And try to find The good in the why, you know? Yeah. And really just sitting with like how we make sense of things, I do think is definitely a takeaway from this. Yes. Not that I'm again saying I have the right answers, ⁓ I just like the concept of the curiosity. Yes. Of like not just accepting what's being presented to you, but being curious about like what else could be true. Absolutely. That's a nugget that really stays with me. ⁓ and again like those really early on images, like I'll always be able to recall ⁓ Morpheus being rescued because I love that the sprinklers are going and so there's water everywhere. ⁓ and then of course, like Neo coming back to life and that like final scene ⁓ where he doesn't even have to try anymore when he's fighting Agent Smith. He just like turns to the side and he can like block all the fighting without any effort. ⁓ and then the scene where he doesn't take the bullets but he puts his hand out and they drop. Yes. Because there's a line, if you remember, way earlier in the movie where he asks Morpheus. So I'm gonna be able to dodge bullets. And Morpheus says when the time is right you won't have to. And that that has stuck with me my whole life. I love that. That he could get to a point where he doesn't have to be faster. He's basically using the matrix to his success, I guess that's not the word I'm looking for, but he's using it to his advantage. Thank you. In my brain, it's helping me. ⁓ and he just makes the bullets drop. Yeah. Like I remember that giving me chills. Yeah. And thinking like kind of you wrote Neo is the one. I was just thinking like, whoa, he's tapped in now, like what does this mean? Yes. And I don't even think I knew there was gonna be a second one yet. But knowing that this is the beginning of something, not the end. Yes. It was it was really awesome like when he did this. Yeah. And the bullets fell it. And then they got really scared. They were like, ⁓ shit. You were in trouble. Yeah. Something has shifted and it is not an army. But like I said, I think that's that moment where you know that he's tapped, like you said, tapped in. Like and I think that maybe the Oracle thing had to happen for him to truly tap in. Yeah, I love it. Awesome. Any last things you want to share about this now that you're a Matrix fan? Yeah, I mean I'm a super matrix fan. I think it was really cool. I think that if you haven't seen it in a while, you You should rewatch it and question how much you trust AI. ⁓ You're speaking my language now. I want us to question everything. I've never been like like I said from the beginning, I'm like, I don't know why, I just don't. Like I have people, they literally use AI for like dating advice, and they're like, Well, chat told me that this is what I should do. Chat told me that these are what they're feeling, and I'm like, that is wild. That is like wild that you like trust that and you like make life decisions based on like that, like it's craziness. I don't know. I don't I'm not behind it. So if you're one of those people, I'm really sorry. I'm not trying to be offensive, but like I just don't understand it necessarily. I'm like, I feel like I make better decisions for my life than like something that doesn't have emotions. Correct. Doesn't have, you know, a history of living life and having experiences in life and learning from experiences and seeing sometimes what can happen as a result of doing the same thing over and over, you know. Like so sometimes that's why it's like I get it for certain things it's great. Like if you want to do math, I think ChatGPT could probably do that really fast for you and that would be great. But like, you know, trusting it with big life decisions, trusting it with HR employees. Like so employees are just literally messaging AI and AI is supposed to solve their problems. ⁓ that's like a really interpersonal thing. So it's like to have not even a person behind that. I don't know. I just think it's kind of moving away from ⁓ humans being connected, if you will. I agree. And I was gonna say, I mean, I am biased because everything you're saying, I also just happen to feel that way. Yeah. Right? Like I am not a fan of anything that disintegrates human interaction. And to me, you know, social media really started that, even though it was meant to bring us together, supposedly. I think it's had really negative consequences on human interaction. And to me, AI is the next chapter of that, and I I am not a person. personal fan and I know lots of people are. I see The Matrix as a cautionary tale. Even though I know it's a fictional story, I think it we are making it more nonfiction and that is cause for concern. Absolutely. Alright, so the way I'm ending episodes now is and you might not have an answer in this moment. You can get back to me, but I will hold myself to this as homework. What's a movie that you love? like love love love that maybe I haven't seen and then I will take that on as homework. Have you ever seen the movie Enough? Is that Jennifer Lopez? Yeah. I have seen that one. ⁓ I think we've talked about that one. I was like, I love that movie. It was one of my favorites as a kid. Let me think. Yep. what other movie do I love? Have you ever seen Lord of the Rings trilogy? So you know I've only seen most of the first one and I fell asleep and I did not get sucked in. Yeah. That is one that I actually have FOMO because I Love being in on what everybody else loves, and I just didn't get that bite for that bug when I was young. Yeah. I tried. I so I felt like I never watched it, and everyone's you have to watch it, you have to watch it. So it was just a few months ago, and I binged it. Really? It was so good, and like the storyline is so good, and then I was like so sad, and then I tried to get into The Hobbit because it's supposed to be the spell. It's not that great. ⁓ so but the trilogy, I really liked it, and I would To work for the whole next week, and the first thing I would ask my clients when they sat down was like, Have you seen the Lord of the Rings? And people were like, No. And I'm like, You have to. I'm surprised you got so many no's. It was like a cultural phenomenon. I got a lot of yeses. One girl she rolls up her arm and she had a whole Lord of the Rings sleeve. ⁓ so she's a stand. She yeah, she had like Finn Elvish tattooed on her, like it's a language they speak. Yeah. Yeah, she she was very into it, and she was like, ⁓ girl, do I know Lord of the Rings? I was like, Yes! That's right. Yeah, I I became like a really big Lord of the Rings fan a few months ago. So I guess I would say maybe try to rewatch it when you're not as sleepy and like give it a shot if you feel up for it. That is more than fair. And I'm adding this to the end of like I'm gonna take these homework assignments. So I will rewatch the first Lord of the Rings since I have not seen it since it was new and see what happens. And then I would love to have you back to maybe even flip the script and talk about that movie and maybe another part of the four part matrix. ⁓ yeah. Story. Yeah, I feel like I'm gonna go watch The Matrix for sure. That's a definite. I'm like, this is so cool. I want to see what happens. I love the story, so I'm very excited to hear if the momentum stays for you. Yeah, but all right. Well, thank you all for joining us. Hope that you enjoyed ⁓ episode two, our deep dive into the matrix. ⁓ please subscribe and follow along. More episodes will be coming out. I have lots of great guests on the horizon, and can't wait to see you next time. Thanks, Lexi. You're so welcome. Thanks, Dr. Murphy. Bye. Okay.