Scream Final: Alright, welcome back to another spooky season episode of Scene Interpretation. I am Dr. Sophia Murphy, a licensed therapist here in Arizona. If you've been listening to the episodes, October is my month. I'm obsessed with watching horror. And today we're gonna watch what I consider the OG, one of the best horror movies of all time. And first, I have my very wonderful, lovely, best friend Angel back. So she's been on here before. She's a pro. She's stepping into a new scary movie. Do you want everyone? Introduce yourself to our thousands of millions of fans. I'm Angel. I am not an avid movie watcher, so I could probably be on here every week. Yeah. And this was a great one to watch. So I'm very excited to talk about it. And I'm coming off a cold, so I sound a little nasally, so sorry. No worries. We're having some version of fall here, so I can only imagine. I think all of our bodies are trying to catch up to like 102 degrees two weeks ago, and now it's been like in the 70s and raining. So allergies and spooky season and fall, something's trying to take everybody out. So I mean, yeah, we're all just doing our best. But our Alright, so drumroll. Today we are talking about Scream. Yeah. And Scream was for me this movie that existed around and around. Because even in 96, for as old as I am, I was way too young to see it. So by the time I finally saw it at like a quintessential high school Halloween party, it was the scariest, best thing I'd ever seen. I can see that. I was thrilled to find someone who hadn't seen it yet. So I'm dying to know like what was your relationship to Scream and just kind of what was your overall. impression before we dive into all the questions. Okay, so my intro to Scream was scary movie. So the best. That was literally all I knew about it. I didn't even know who was in it. I started watching it and I was like, wow, there's a lot of like big names in this. And then because I had seen Scary Movie, that's what I thought the end result was of Scream. So the whole time I'm watching it, like, I know how this ends whatever. But like I didn't realize scary movie has the big twist. Yeah. And so I was watching for certain things, not realizing it wasn't what it was gonna end up being. So it was very fun 'cause at first I like, well I already know like what's happening and then when we got to the end I was like, Okay. You're like, not quite. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I guess just to confirm, because I've seen Scream way more than I've seen Scary Movie, and though I love Scary Movie, but the twist in Scary Movie is that it's Deputy Doofus. Yes. And Gale. Whatever her name is. Yes. So the whole time I'm watching them I know it's you. I know it's you. And then I guess then I'm like, it's not it's not. She's actually So that's hilarious to think that you're watching the movie thinking it's David Arquette The entire time. And he's so not that character. So I think I probably need to re-watch it with like the fresh lines of it's it's not him. Correct. I love that. I don't think I would have ever assumed that that specific part of scary movie would so much inform how you thought Scream was gonna go. Honestly, I think it's the only thing I really remember, like from the movie to be honest. That's just that. And I think what makes all the scary movies so great is they're pulling from like twenty five movies, right? So like the anchor of the original scary movie is obviously Scream. And they continue that throughout and they're pulling from all the best movies right ever being made. That's so great. Okay. So actually watching this movie kind of walk me through when you realize that yes, of course it's a horror movie and it's also so incredibly self-aware. Like what did you think about like the meta aspects of the storytelling? I just I really like the way they filmed everything because it kept giving you like bits and pieces of the history and then like coming back in. which I really appreciated because it wasn't like they gave you everything up front about like her mom and everything that happened. Right. and then just the relationships dynamics of everybody really really grinded my gears. so I can't wait for us to get into that. But yeah, I mean I I thought it was done really well and like kept your attention and kept you on your toes and stuff. Yeah, I mean I just love like from the first time I saw it to now that the movie gives you so many clues and does a really good job because it gives you so many clues it's hard to know like what is really the red herring, even though I actually forgot when I was rewatching it. There's a line when Randy's at the movie store and he's saying, I think her dad's the red herring and that is literally the red herring of the movie. So I just love how Wes Craven took like all the tropes and instead of fighting against them, put them right in front of you. And then that is exactly how the movie unfolds. Like it's telling you what's gonna happen. Which I think is why people don't expect it. Correct. It's because it's like why would they give you the answer up front? And it's like they actually did. Especially in the nineties. Yeah. You know, 'cause my memory was like I knew about like Halloween and Friday the thirteenth and I had never really seen those either. I was terrified of scary movies until not that long. COVID when the world ended. I always tell people that's when I really got into scary movies. But so I grew up with like Psycho. That was the scariest movie I had seen as a kid. And so seeing this movie, I was also surprised by how funny it was. Yes. So like talk to me about that juxtaposition of like I remember being terrified, fingers over my eyes, and then laughing hysterically. It was an emotional roller coaster the first time I saw it. Fair. How was it for you? I'm this age I don't really get scared. Ever fuck no not really. That's amazing. But I also don't watch a lot of scary movies. So maybe I would, but kind of same thing. Like when I was young, I saw The Exorcist way too early. That was my first scary movie. And then I didn't see it again probably till like high school. Like any scary movies. And then I saw like maybe one or two in high school. But then like my friends and I would go play like Manhunt after. And so like I don't know. I I find them more cheesy than scary. Okay. And even watching this one, watching the way like the guts bust out, or like the dead bodies took me out. How fake they look. It's so funny to me, like just watching it and appreciating like that's where we were and how far now we're That is so funny because I think. No, this isn't a thought, this is a fact. Even to now, the opening scene still completely makes my skin crawl. Like, I get so wrapped up in it, even though I know everything that's gonna happen, and just the scene of the mom coming out the front door and finding Casey's guts hanging out of her body. I like almost want to cry. I'm like, I can't imagine what that would be like to find your kid. Legitimately. There's just something about how that cold open happens that I think aged so well that I I don't know that I ever thought it looked fake, but again, maybe I saw it so young, it's like imprinted on my brain that it's the most horrifying thing I've ever seen. It's more when it's the bodies hanging. Yeah. If you look at those, those are the ones that look super fake. And part of it too is as I'm watching, like the narration in my head is literally like I'm thinking about it like, why would you not grab a knife as soon as they're saying they're outside? Why would you stand with your back to the glass door? Or behind that's how my mind is going. That's fair. And so I'm more like analyzing than being scared. Yes. That's also or playing this game. I'm like, I would die immediately because I don't know any scary movies. I I wouldn't make it past the first one. My boyfriend's gonna be dead in the backyard within two seconds. Like I'm so sorry, Boo. And I'm not sure they wouldn't have not killed her, even if she got all the answers. Because they're insane. Fair. But I would just wouldn't have been a quick one. That's fair. It wouldn't have been fun for them. They look like this girl doesn't know anything like god, we have to kill her so fast now. We really wanted to drag them. Yeah. They're like new game. Well and wonder again if some of that is just how it's aged, because I don't know, seeing it as a teenager, I don't think I had any wherewithal to think like what would I do? Right. And why would someone make stupid choices? And like why would you run upstairs versus run outside or what all the tropes are again now? Where so many movies have been made since nineteen ninety six that really address those issues and try to create, I think having a hero or final girl who is smarter. Right. Right, who doesn't fall for all the stupid Things people do in horror movies, and I just remember thinking, like, you're home alone. Clearly, they live out in the middle of nowhere. And again, 1996, no cell phones, right? Even when the parents come home, he tells the mom you to go to the other house to get another phone to call 911. Like to me, it was just the most terrifying thing that could happen to any young girl, probably as a young girl, yeah. Being home alone, because I was home alone all the time. Everybody was. You just didn't think of people breaking into your home to gut you. It was not on your radar. Now I think everyone's trying to kill me. Well, and that's what I was gonna say is like I think also to your point, now I think of it of the lens of I've had so many friends and like law enforcement and things like that. Where they've told me stories. So now I'm like super vig vigilant of like is the door locked, is the car locked, you know what I mean? Yeah, so definitely coming at it from a way different Lens than if I was like in middle school, high school, anything else? Yes, very, very, very true. so let's see, let's get into the meat of the story. So let's talk a little bit about the setting. I think that it also matters that it's this like small town in the movie, not in real life, but in California, right? So Woodsboro is the small town where everyone knows everything about everyone. the intimacy actually is the weapon, right? Because everyone knows the history. So, just kind of how did you feel about how the closeness the community? Community actually almost worked against Sydney, and like it wasn't a protective factor, like there was nothing safe about this small town at all. It really, first of all, I immediately picked up on like how long it took the news to break. Yes. Because like nowadays you'd know within an hour that something happened with like consultant media and everything else. And this was like the next day you're walking into school and finding out. Never in this day and age. Not just. Great point. you would know, unfortunately, that a classmate Correct. Your two classmates had been. That's a really good point. So that was like the first thing I clocked. And then the unseriousness of it immediately made me mad. Like then joking with her and then just like saying things about her mom. In c conjunction with the conversations. Yes. And I was like, are these her friends? This is insane. Yes. There was like no empathy, no tiptoeing, yes. Just nothing. A hundred percent. Yeah, that's such a good point, too, is it's almost interesting because we've had so much more violence now than we had back then, at least on a national scale where we can see it and have access to it. So part of me thinks that we're so desensitized no one would care. But then I think the other part of it is because we're so exposed. To it, we have all this new language that you're right, the school would be closed, there'd be like trauma counselors everywhere, like everyone would immediately want to check on Sydney because of her juxtaposition to this murder. It's almost like a the both and. Right. Or at least your friends. I would hope so. Like that's just that was so weird to me. Like these are not her friends. Yeah, and I think it's hard for me to separate that out too. Was that to put you on their trail as the killers or to not think that they were the killers? Right. the levity of it I think was part of the puzzle. Yeah. But even her female friend. Tatum. I understand she wasn't the one saying some of these comments. Right. But you best believe if my friend's man is speaking this way, absolutely not immediately in protective mode. Yeah, the nineties maybe this is where we jump into it. The nineties romantic relationship dynamics are wild. Yeah. I mean it's like all yeah. And the shows that were going on back then, like this to me is very of that Dawson's Creek era, like Buffy the Vampire, so like it's all in the same time frame. Yeah. And I don't know what we were doing. I don't know. I'm not a fan. What came up for you the most with the relationships? God, so much. definitely a lot of like women feeling guilty about especially for her like not putting out and how she comes off and making him wait and my gosh, the part that made me livid was like when she was talking about like, you're right, like my mom's death was a year ago. I should be over. I can't wallow in grief forever. My mouth probably dropped open. There's the horror it what is happening? Like this is insane. Yes. I understand not being, you know, slightly empathetic to stuff, but that was crazy. Yes. And even the scene where he first gets, I guess, released from jail and they meet at school and he's like, you know, my mom left. I got over it. I wrote that down too. Your mom your parents split up. My mom's in a coffin somewhere. It's like, yes, exactly. How is this a conversation? I think it's the both end of like he's so completely grotesque. And once you find out he's the killer, it makes sense. Yeah. But then you're just like, how did I not immediately think he was the killer? Right. When he is human trash. He's literally a psychopath. Literally. Those are conversations that a psychopath has. Yes. And again, like Wes Craven gave us everything. Right. Like he's so I guess maybe because of who Ski Oridge was at the time, like he's attractive. So it was kind of You wanted him to be the good boyfriend, and that there was a little bit of that that was playing in the background, but every time I rewatch it, I'm like, he is so gross, like from the jump. Yes. And then I just ended up thinking, like, he's just a trash boyfriend. Right. You know what I mean? Like not psychopaths, just like he's a high school boy that doesn't understand relationships. You know what I mean? Right. So that played into it too. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right though. Like, I do remember all gender role dynamic of when are you gonna have sex and who holds that power and the gatekeeping and I mean I'm sure teenagers today I feel for you because now you've got social media on top of it but like yeah that pressure of you're not a good girlfriend if right and like he's waited so long and he's been so patient and I think even Sydney and Tatum have that conversation like what guy waits around right for their girlfriend who's what's she say like sexually anorexic it's the craziest The terms are insane. But yeah, I mean I think it is a little bit of a time capsule in that way too. Just like the way that they interact with each other in my memory was very consistent and also so gross now. Right. And doesn't age well at all. And I would say nowadays, I don't know if it's true because I'm not interacting with youth as much, but from like podcasts I've listened to and stuff, it seems it's actually flip-flopped a bit where people are waiting longer and are feeling less pressured, both with sex and with alcohol. Like it seems like the younger generation isn't drinking and is not take your time sexually active. So it's like very interesting watching this where it's the complete opposite. Yeah. and even like I feel like when I was in high school it was somewhere in between. Like I don't feel like it was like this crazy, but I do remember there being like some pressure and stuff. Yeah. but yeah, it's just it was very the dynamic is has shifted, I feel. Yeah, I mean, I think that's great to hear that there's less of that pressure and people have more freedom to choose for themselves. It I do just remember like the late nineties, early two thousands seemed like that was everything. Yes. Like every movie, again TV show was about that same sexual dynamic. Like my mind just went to Clueless, which is one of my favorite movies and like the whole thing is about Cher being a virgin who can't drive. my god. The list is gonna you're gonna be on every episode. Like you said, once a month. This would be our new role. Angels are a reoccurring. Monthly guest for the new movie. Yeah, but same nineties time frame and it's just all about her but making that decision, right? boys or gross, how's she gonna decide? And she's like a junior in high school and that's all we care about was like who and when and so I think tying that into the horror element as well of like once you're not a virgin then you're not safe anymore either. Which is a a trope that had been in all those like seventies, eighties, early ninety horror movies, is that the people that are Basically unruly are the ones who get punished and murdered, especially the girls. Fair. And I think that was part of what made Was Craven so smart was he was using that again on its face, in your face. Like this is literally her life or death decision. Yeah, that makes sense. The other thing I thought about was just like him sneaking into her room and stuff. I remember thinking that would happen a lot more in high school. Like that's just because to your point, like in so many movies back then, that was just. I looked in the Sneaking in your bedroom 'cause you have to drive there. Well that too is like you had to have lived in a big enough house, yeah, close enough to other people and have had enough access that didn't include your front door. Yes. I grew up in apartments, so no one's scaling the side of a building to get onto your patio to come in through a sliding bus door. it just doesn't happen in real life like that. Like that was a g a great nineties, two thousands trail of like how your, you know, secret boyfriend or girlfriend's gonna like Come in and out of your property unknown. no. One time my boy boyfriend at the time tried to sneak in and let me tell you, the one time 'cause my stepdad was on the porch with his gun, like, somebody's trying to break into the house. I'm like, what? I saw this in the movies. I thought this would work. Little did I know. It doesn't translate into real life. Nope, sure doesn't. Don't try it though, guys. I love it. all right. So kind of to your earlier statement about like, wow, there's a lot of big people in this movie. One of the biggest things about it at the time was the opening scene with Drew Barrymore because everyone just assumed she was the star in the final girl. So the fact that she dies in the first, I don't know, 15-16 minutes is considered one of the greatest cold opens in horror history. So, what did you think about that? How much did you know that was coming? Like, how did that land? I knew nothing about anything. So, zero percent. and I also like kind of assume even watching it, I'm like, something happens that she survives, and yeah, and she's still in it. I could also imagine being super pissed if I saw this real time and thinking she's gonna be in it, and then she She's not. I know so many movies that that's happened and I'm like, what would I buy a ticket for? This is the person I wanted to see. Right, right. so yeah, even like I had no idea. So the part that I think was so cool getting into my cinephile nerd brain is that's the way that psycho works as well, which was many, many, many decades before Scream. Right. And so it was kind of like Wes Craven's, you know, ode to the classics was to cast one of the biggest young stars at the time and put her on all the posters and like have everyone I think she gets top billing too, because that's how psycho starts. Gotcha. And so it was kind of like the classic horror. switcheroo that Alfred Hitchcock had done was like now the movie has no rules. Right. So this whole idea that like if the star could die at the beginning, and it's a pretty brutal opening death, especially for back then, both of them being gutted, anything's possible. Right. Like where's this gonna go? And so I remember even having heard that she died, because I didn't see this movie for like probably three or four years till after, I still couldn't believe it when I saw it. Yeah. Like it's just so terrifying she's really dead. Yeah. This movie's gonna go off the rails. For sure. And so I just love that history of it too, that she's literally in it for a fraction of the movie. Everyone thinks Drew Barrymore when you think the original scream. Yeah. I mean, especially when she's like fighting I'm like, she found her way out of this. Yeah, she does not go down without kicking and screaming, which is great and also brutal. Brutal way to die. yeah, for sure. But I just love the history of that. And I think it did kind of revamp that cold open for future horror movies, too. Because again, like Halloween has got a lot of like history, but to me that's a very slow burn. Friday the 13th has a little of a cold open like that, nothing to that level. But when Scream came out, every Scream also has some of the best cold opens as this franchise goes on, even though the movies go really downhill. The cold open is often some of the Best parts of all the movies. I love that. I almost watched the wrong one, side note. I put it on and then Is it the reboot? That's just I don't know. I don't know. I think it was just it had a number and maybe I didn't see it like in the title. And then I watched the opening scene and the girls on her cell phone and I was like, this movie is old. I'm glad you caught it because yeah, I think the cell phone is also a tool, it's a plot device in this one, because nobody has phones. 'Cause there's a whole part where they're talking to Billy about him having a cell phone. He's like, well lots of people are getting them now. No. And it takes days to the point to get the call logs to see if he made the phone calls to taunt everybody. Yeah. Before we know there's two killers. And they're smarter than they look. Very much so. I love it. All right, let's see. Where do I want to go? so using the phone, kind of the fact that Ghostface calls before he kills and how that becomes such a staple in the franchise. The fact that there's like him talking and taunting and like knowing the person, it isn't really as random as it seems. Right. What did you think about this idea that the violence is kind of like his way of connecting, especially 'cause they're crazy young teenagers, but like there's a relational aspect to the murdering. It's just scary. that part is scary to me that someone you know can do that and show up in such a normal fashion on a day to day and have conversations with you. Yes. I I I that part is the scary part to me. That could happen in real life and does happen in real life. and so that just I mean, again, it's very well done and very scary. Yeah, and I think when I I was re-watching it too, the part that stood out was the planning. Mm-hmm. Right? Like especially once you know it's the two killers and it's so organized that they're at different places at different times. So that creates a built-in alibi. Again, the cell phone technology was in its Infancy. So it gave them a lot of leeway to kind of like mess with people. But yeah, the very fact that like everyone knew them, they were embedded again in this like small community, that was actually the danger, not the safety. Right. It was literally like the person closest to you is the person who's going to hurt you. Which is insanity. Agreed. And also, how they have such good service? 'Cause I lived in the middle of nowhere. Many years after that and let's My cell phone service was terrible. I didn't have Verizon. You weren't talking to anybody. Yeah, I don't even know who the cell phone carriers were in nineteen ninety six. That's actually hilarious. Yeah, I don't know. I guess it just worked because it needed to be as part of the plot device. my god. But it was just so well done. And that's actually when I started being like, wait, is it not the detective? Right. Because every time the call would happen, he was so close. Right. But also a scary movie. They had it like that too in some scenes. So it kept throwing me off and I was like, No, I know he's the killer. I just cannot imagine watching Scream thinking. It's David Arquette playing Dewey. Like that's blowing my mind because it never would have crossed my mind in the first place. No, and it wouldn't have crossed mine either had I not seen the scary movie. Yeah, I really love how they subvert even making fun of Scream by making it dewy paired with and I don't remember what the reporter's name is in Scary Movie, but the Gale character. Yeah. But yeah. It's perfect. What did you think about kind of that the two leads, right? So Sydney as the main character really wants Drew Barrymore's died. And then the Gale character is kind of like the two strong females that they have such an interesting competitive dynamic. Very just what did you think about that? I liked that they kept that the entire time and that they challenged each other, that changed each other's thinking. I thought that was such an interesting dynamic. Yeah. and I love that the conversations and the interactions that they were having helped fuel them figuring other things out throughout the story. Because they didn't have like that many interactions, but when they did, everyone was like super impactful to like moving the plot. Yeah, it as much as I think Gail's portrayed as like that ruthless, uncaring, unfeeling character, I do like how her conviction around Sydney claiming the wrong person killed the mom is actually right. Right. Like it does come full circle that she knew Sydney was wrong. Right. It obviously Sydney's traumatized through this whole process and it did create that little space of like it gave a another great plot device of what if there's something else going on here. Right. And this is actually tied to your mother's murder Wasn't as neat or as clean cut as we thought it was. And we don't ever meet cotton in the first movie. So if you stick with it, the cotton story is very interesting because it has a whole life of its own. Gotcha. I think the first three movies are actually really, really good before it gets absolutely insane. But it is neat to see how Gail's sort of like hard, cutting edge, unfeeling personality proves to be a really good balance to Sydney because Sydney's kind of like the softer, confused victim. In it all. And I like that they figure it out together. Well, and I think it's so funny with Gail's character because there are moments where it almost seems like she cares or is doing it for the right reasons, but then immediately after it re-reminds you, like, you know, I'm in this for myself. She's very manipulative. Like she's good at being manipulated. Yeah. It's very interesting how they did that, and I'm sure intentional. Yes, which also again plays a pretty important part in the movie. Over time. which I do really like how the characters evolve over time. yeah, so were there any specific scenes that did make you pause either because it just like surprised you or it wasn't what you thought it was gonna be, or maybe you started seeing the movie going in a different direction? surprised again it was more just the element of like the relationship dynamics that I was really stuck on. Like even the garage scene Is nobody checking on their girlfriends, their friends, that they're I'm like, my if my friend is gone for more than ten minutes, I'm going to look for my friend. Yes. Or my girlfriend. Like so that was shocking to me that she was gone for a very long time and no one was like Yeah, hanging from a garage door. That is the body I will say looks the worst. When it smooshes her and her face is literally just like a dummy's face. Yeah. That's a fair. criticism. That one has not aged well. But I did think for a long time that a garage door would kill you. And now as an adult, I don't know that it would kill you. I don't think it would kill you. I think it would stop. Correct. I think it would feel your b A I don't think it could lift a hundred and ten pounds. Whatever she's supposed to be. And I just don't think it would have enough, it's not like an elevator. I don't think it would have enough force to just completely come back to your body. Also, I don't think I've ever seen a garage that has a doggy door. I know I was thinking wow, is that just like I've just never seen it? out in the outskirts of California thing. So that had to clock as well. I was thinking that too. I've had this thought many, many times though, of just like that is an excellent, maybe unnecessary thing to add to give a way for her to get murdered in that door. Which also, girl, you could have fit through the through the hole. There was a lot of options. You could have made it through there. I I believe in you. Like the door doesn't move that fast. Even if you were halfway through you could back out. Legitimately. Push yourself forward and maybe at worst maybe scrape up your elbows when you hit the asphalt. Look, if you have a garage with a doggy door, let us know. We need to know these things. Leave comments 'cause that also just feels dangerous. I don't think I want my animal going in and out of the garage where I parked the car. That's not the room. Doggy doors in general stress me out because we have a big dog and so I'm we don't even use our doggy door 'cause I'm like a human could fit in here and I'm afraid to forget to lock it when we leave. So we're the fair. We don't use it. She would not get trapped in her doggy door. It is the size she's a full size human to be. She could run through it actually. See, when you pick it apart, it's not scary anymore. Totally fair. Alright. Any other fun things you had on yours as we're kind of popping back and forth? man, there was just like again, so many things. These men are boys in this movie. The principal. Okay. This is the second movie now that I've done a podcast. For with you, that I'm like, what is wrong with these adults in these movies? These inappropriate like actions that are happening. Yeah. They're so cringy. Like, I think the first scene that he's in with Cindy where they're doing the interview, and like, I don't know if he like kisses her head or something he does to her. I'm like, this is weird. Too fatherly. So crosses the line. He has the two students in there with the masks and he has they're not scissors, they're shears. Like what he puts up the mask first, and then he's like threatening the mask. I was like, this is insane. I'm pretty sure this is not legal. I do have to say though, maybe this is just a statement on where I'm at in the world today. I was like, yes. no, I didn't disagree with it. Let's be clear. Like you're not allowed to do that, but threaten their lives and expel them from school. I love They would get away with it and it would be a slap on the wrist. There'd be some consequences. A hundred percent. So yeah, that definitely stuck out to me for sure. And chalkboards. I haven't seen those in so long. The classrooms are so old. Even just like that campus of high school, like it's all a thousand years old. Like it's so so so dated. and the cops being at the party where there's underage drinking was sending me. Yes. Just like that whole dynamic that dropping them off and then coming back to join in on the party. I'm like, never in a million years nowadays. Well and I was thinking when I was re-watching it that it is so funny to me because Dewey is really portrayed as kind of an idiot. Right. And that's how the Doofus character comes about in scary movie. But the fact that he's really just trying to like show off for gifts and she thinks she's hip and cool with her like shiny gold. leather jacket that her outfits to me are the worst thing in all the screens. I mean Courtney Cox is fine, but like I don't know who decided Gail is so trashy as a character because her outfits through most of the movies are horrendous. Yes. And so I did think it was this odd thing where he's like trying to front and be cool with her 'cause she's a celebrity. Right. Terrible adults. And their flirting was so weird. And I couldn't figure out how old she was supposed to be because they were 25. Right. Because they were talking about the viewership and that age. And I'm like, how old is she supposed to be? And if you're supposed to be that old, this is just weird now. Like it's a weird dynamic. I wonder how old she was in real life in '96. Because this was like friends peak, right? And I don't know if you know this, not to mansplain, but they met and got married. Because of this movie. I didn't know that. Yeah, because she was Courtney Cox Arquette for a really long time. So this is like how their love story actually started. That's so. So the cringy flirting and everything is like real. She's like, yeah, I liked that. But I don't know what their ages are in real life. But every time he says he's 25, I'm like, stop it. Twenty-five where. Right. Twenty-five what years. Yeah. Not human years. but I don't know. She I feel like they both had to have Been almost 30 or in their 30s in real life. Yeah. Because I don't know. I'll have to make sense to me anymore. how old was Courtney Cox in 1996? That or five when they filmed it. Right. But yeah, their whole relationship was hilarious. Yeah, I would say those were the the main things I kind of noticed. Those news bands were also crazy. I mean, again, the technology, like she takes that giant camera in her purse into the party and like sets it up so. So you can see what's happening. 10 second lag or whatever. The teenagers, the 10 second lag is again a huge plot device. 100%. You have to run back in the house because you don't know what's happening at what time. I love that part though. I love the nostalgia of it, even though it's a dark, scary, funny movie. I love the simplicity of all that and the tech and everything. They did it well. It was very well thought out, planned, films. Absolutely. Ugh. Makes me laugh so much. Let's see. Alright. Right, so for Sydney, she spends her entire film being defined by something that was done to her, her mother's death, her mother's reputation, the way the town looks at her. What'd you kinda think about her as the final girl being the kind of I would say victim who has that arc to where she ends up like not taking any shit? Like she's pretty picked on and treated terribly up until the end where she is the one that saves the day. I mean, you had to, right? Yeah. Like you can't go through all that and just keep letting it happen. I guess you could have, but it would have been a very different movie. Yeah. but I just remember thinking throughout, I like, Wow, she's got a million lives. She's just That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think there is just something about it again, I'm I'm guessing kind of mixing documentaries and things I've seen, but like I think Wes Craven wanted to give us a lesser known actress and make her very like small and timid and have had gone through the worst thing ever to then come out victorious. Victorious and very strong and self-assured on the span of two hours, which I thought was pretty effective. I thought very powerful. Yeah. Taking taking back the power. I agree. And having to work together with Gail, who's like such that big presence through most of the movie. And I think Sydney's very like quiet. and I just in my mind I always see her as kind of like shaky and scared, and then she's really strong and like I'm not gonna be fucked with. Right. Like once she knows everything, she's just like, y'all. are sick. I am not going down this way. Legitimately. With everything she's been through. So kind of on the flip side, Billy and Stu are two killers. have created this whole narrative and this motive that they're the victims of consuming all the horror, but really about Billy's mom leaving because of Sydney's mom. Right. So just what did you think about their arc, the motive and even the like meta idea that the horror movies made them kill while we're watching a horror movie about killing. So there's a couple parts in that question. Yeah, I thought I thought it was interesting that they really only touched about his mom very briefly. Yes. Like because that was such a big part of everything that happened. It surprised me that it was only for like 30 seconds. Right. And then moved on. Very small exhibition or exposition. Yeah, which I'm sure was intentional. But yeah I I almost would have liked a little bit more, I think. Just a tad more detail. Yep. but yeah I was so focused on like the scary movie. And that relationship, which again, I think was just the dynamic they were trying to portray. And then I thought. funny too of just going back to the video store scene which that was very nostalgic. that's like my favorite part is I miss going to the video store on Friday. Blockbuster yes you get to pick out one for the weekend. Yeah exactly get candy maybe popcorn. But I loved how there were moments in there that I feel like then tied back to the end. Absolutely. So I thought they did a really good job of like tying everything together. And I wish I had better memory of the history, especially from a political lens, 'cause I was young then. But like what we were saying about how content impacts us. Like I remember that a lot older teenager in high school after Combine and this whole idea that like the music is making the kids sick. Right. And it was like we have to put the explicit lyrics like a thing on a CD. Like I remember when that happened and it'd be like, we have to warn them what's in the songs and like the songs are making them become mass shooters and I don't remember video games. Video games for sure, yeah. Video games and songs is really what I remember. Like late middle school high school. I don't really remember I remember us having these vivid conversations about watching a scary movie is gonna make you violent. Or watching, let me just say, watching violence in movies is gonna make you violent. I don't remember that as much. I don't remember that either. But I was also like younger. Same, same, same, same. Sorry, but I wasn't watching movies. Gosh, being three. Love that for us. So yeah, I don't remember that. So I guess maybe even since then, what do you think about the role let's say like a causation role of the content to actions or do we think it's more like unhinged people find unhinged material? inspirational. It's it's such a tough call. especially in this day of social media. Yeah. I think it does play more of a factor probably now. than back in the day, especially with how quickly things just travel and people like digging into everything and talking about everything. And then on top of that, people being less social than they used to and more hold up. And so I think people are more susceptible to creating their own realities now than they probably were previously and or maybe it just wasn't like getting around that that's what was happening because there wasn't social media. You know what I mean? It's so interesting because I do agree with everything you just said. And I think the part that has stood out to me probably the last like ten years at this stage in my life is I think something has happened where it's not just the content you consume, it's the isolation. It's the fact that I think Not just teenagers, adults as well have lost reality testing. Like I don't remember ever, and again, maybe it's because I wasn't on social media, but I don't remember ever meeting someone who watched Scream that like, Wow, that makes me want to go kill people. Right. It's like that's a movie. Yeah. It's not a blueprint. And the same with songs. Like I remember when there was up in arms about like you can't listen to these certain songs, it's too violent. It's got too much curse words, it's got violence against women. Like it's gonna make you act out. And I remember that. Discussion, and I also don't remember ever meeting anyone that's I listened to this album and now it's gonna make me want to go kill people. Right. There was always reality testing. People were able to separate media from behaviors, yeah. And obviously, people have done terrible things. It just I feel like the missing puzzle piece is the isolation is when you don't have friends, family, community, and you consume this, it's like that becomes your reality, and you don't understand the distinction. Right. Well, it's hard to Too because, not even just the movies and stuff like that. It is the same with like music and politics at this point, and especially being in like the dating world right now, you meet people, and you've heard some of my dating stories. I'm like, am I in an alternate reality? Like, this cannot be real life, and it is, and it just you're like, How did we get here? Yeah, this is insane. I mean, I do think that is another piece of it. Is because of technology, there is a harder process to test what is real and what's not. So I do think they've kind of fed each other where the fact that like you don't know that what you're consuming is real even when it's said it's real. Right. So I think it is harder to see fact from fiction and people live in like a wormhole, right? Like so yeah, you're gonna meet somebody whose understanding of reality. You're like, how can we live in the same time and space? I'm like, how are you an adult? That too. Like this is crazy. 'Cause nobody called you out on like You can't live this way. Unless you surround yourself or don't surround yourself with people. But Yeah, I don't know. It's just so fascinating because like the violence in movies has gone I mean just violence on television. Like I remember you know, this would have been like a movie that you could only see on HBO once it left the theaters. And now this plays on AMC in the middle of the day. Which this is gonna really make me sound old, but every time I watch a horror movie on AMC, they will bleep out bitch, motherfucker, goddamn and then show someone's entire innards get pulled out at like one o'clock in the afternoon. I'm like, who's deciding? This is cable yes, I still have this is cable television showing someone get gutted, but they can't say fuck. Right. I don't know how we decided what was more dangerous for young impressionable minds. Right. Stumbling upon cable television in the middle of the day, but I don't know. It's just I don't know that we've seen a one to one trajectory as the Exposure to violence has gotten so much worse that people are more violent. It's like violent people are violent people. I don't know that we can say the movies made anybody do anything. But I don't think so. It's just so interesting that there was a lot of that dialogue. And that's what the whole story is based in. Yeah. That they are this way because of their poor impressionable minds and what they're consuming. And that concept I think has aged well just in terms of a talking point. Right. And kind of thinking about it. But all right, so going kind of back to the meta aspect, what I think makes the movie stand out so much is Randy's character, right? So he is that voice of I think Wes Craven through the movie teaching us the rules of horror movies and there are rules that you have to follow and if you know the rules it will protect you. So what do you think about this sort of like internal part of the story that if you just do these certain things you'll be okay, even though we're supposed to be suspending disbelief that this is a real thing happening to real people. Right. And again, 'cause I didn't know First of all, didn't know the virgin rule. So like I'm like, this is weird. Like, what are we doing? but yeah, it was like an interesting way. I think I did catch on to that build-up, right? Of like, okay, so like something's gonna happen. She's no longer virgin, like all these little things. So that I did catch on to. so I thought it was an interesting way of like setting the scene, and again, you can pick up on it and believe that's what's gonna happen or be like it's too easy. It's too obvious. Right. So I'm vi I would be so curious in real time how many people did think the ending was going to be the ending. Yeah, that's a great question. I wish I remembered. Because by the time I had seen it, because I even remember my shirt, just the front image from the posters. Like I had a friend that had the soundtrack and it scared me so much. And the like image of Ghostface scared me so much. And I had heard, like, I knew there was the big opening and Drew Barrymore dying. And maybe I knew it was the boyfriend, but it's like none of that stuck because I was just so scared to finally watch the movie. So I wish I remembered how many people figured out that it was Billy. Maybe people thought It was one of them and not both. Right. That was part of the surprise. But yeah, I just remember being along for the ride and having no idea. So I'm sure I could find some neat critics' reviews from back in the day and find out what it would be interesting. Yeah. I just really love even when I rewatch it, like Randy talking about yeah, the dad's the red herring, maybe Billy's mad 'cause Sydney won't have sex with him. Like he tells you everything and then it still is unfolding so well. Yeah. That you just go with it. I love that. Say I'll be right back. Like everything was just like such a perfect setup. It really was. okay, so the film ends. Sydney does survive, she becomes our great final girl. She's not rescued by anyone else, right? She really fights back on her own terms, and we kind of talked about that a little bit. Like, what do you think about kind of the final girl trope and how it was executed in this movie? I was happy it didn't end up being Gail. because it could have been, right? Like had that gun but. It or the safety not on, I'm happy they let Cindy have her moment. Like I really feel like that that was the the bow on the ending of the story. I don't know if it would have hit as hard for me if somebody else had, you know, finished it off. I agree, especially again, like for being the first movie and something that became such a big franchise. And I remember her on Party of Five, that I didn't have a big relationship to her, and I think that anytime I've seen a movie where the less famous person ends up being the story, I it always works for me. Right. Like I think that is also a trope that is just a great device. Yeah. Where like if the main star dies, it's kind of 50-50 who it's gonna be, or you know, 25, 25, 20, like who are the main characters and who's gonna survive. And I just remember liking the fact that this actress I didn't know very well ended up being the entire story. Absolutely and again now it's launched like eight movies. So now it's kind of backfired. And I love going like someone that was a victim for s the entire story to the end of you know being the person. No more. okay so last couple more talked about this already too, but Scream really restructured at for its time the genre of a movie making fun of itself without the scary movie right there into the spectrum right without the spoof yeah so without the spoofs involved scream really restructured a movie making fun of itself from the inside. So like how did that part land and what did you think about that and just kind of like how common that is now I feel like that's also what gave it a good balance of being scary and not scary, and just made the story more interesting. it's just very enjoyable to watch. Yeah. Had it not had that I don't know if I would have enjoyed it as much as I did. Yeah. I love the balance of it. I agree. it made me less afraid to try other horror movies because this is something I think about now as I've gotten into like all my Cinephile things. Horror and comedy are so close to each other, right? Like there's a very similar emotional response of being scared and then laughing. Right. And so I love the intentionality of like, let's give them a laugh, let's give them a you know a really good scary jump scare back to back. Just my gosh, I'm totally invested in this. Also, I don't know if I'm gonna laugh or scream or gr gasp, you know. I think it's just such a cool emotional experience to have. Yes. And I think it also set the stage well of like again, just giving that you don't know what's gonna happen because there was just so much humor that came from so many different characters and different times that it just it really spun the story very well. Absolutely. okay, so is there anything that you think would have landed differently if you had been a teenager and seen this in the late nineties or early two thousands? I would have been scared, I think. I I I don't think I would have been as analytical with all the things. I wonder how I would have viewed the relationships too, if I would have been as appalled as I was. Now back then, I don't know if I necessarily would have been. Yeah, I mean really appreciate you highlighting that because I don't know that that was ever on my radar when I was younger. It just seems so normal. Exactly. Like that's just how it was. Yeah. which is crazy. It's so crazy. Legit. And it also like I feel like This doesn't land with me as something that could have happened because I wasn't home alone a lot. interesting. So like for me, it would have had to have been like you were murdering my whole family. 'Cause we were always home. Like There's only two times I remember my parents being out of town ever. Until I went to college. And the only reason I remember that is because I threw small parties both those times. When I say party, there was like eight friends over. Sure, sure. That's what I was like brave enough to do. Yeah. but yeah, so like even the the scary trope of this wouldn't have landed for me as being a realistic thing, me being by myself. wow, no, I think We were all latchkey kids. So it would just be like so many hours alone. Maybe not days. Like I guess her dad's going out of town for work for days. yeah, I mean, definitely at least six, seven, eight hours after school. So now that you're saying that, is that not weird that she's in high school and doesn't have another parent? Her dad's just like see in a week. I mean, I think it's Weird now as an adult, and I think that again it was just kinda like she'll be with her friends, like she'll be at other people's houses, and it's just like I I I kind of also think this is not the hill I want to die on as we're wrapping up. But there's definitely some interesting gender stuff in this movie because her dad is also really inept. So I guess maybe the argument like he's also traumatized, his wife was murdered, clearly she was sleeping with lots of other men. And he's just trying to like hold the family together. That's the way I think he's portrayed. Because even like Sydney's exasperation when he comes to the door and she's I know he'll be at this hotel. Like, clearly, this is common for them. Yeah. That she just takes care of herself. Right. So I do think there is this other part of the narrative of like he's a you know kind of neglectful, absent father, and she's this like girl who has to raise herself because even though her mom had problems. You kind of get the idea like that was their relationship and she's gone. Right. So like the guys can't handle it, the girls figure it out. It's kind of an underlying message happening in the movie. Even though Billy and Stu are very organized, they end up being pretty inept in the end. And even Dewey's way more inept than Gail. Right. Like there is this interesting the guys are train wrecks and the girls just get Legitimately. Yeah, so I'm sure leaving your teenage daughter alone for a week is not great. That was kind of not on my Especially with like no cell phones and stuff. I'm like, I mean, the things we did with no cell phones for a while. That's also fair till college was just like life. You just had to know people's phone numbers and everybody had a phone. Yeah. And it also wouldn't have been weird back then to go to a neighbor's house and be hey, can I use For sure. For sure. Nowadays I'd be like, I'm gonna fucking go into that person's house. Right. With a gun and shoot me. Right. That was the other thing too that I thought about is her answering the phone for an unknown caller. Yes. Was just normal. Absolutely not nowadays. I don't even think we had caller ID yet. Right. You just had to, you'd have a choice to see who it was. Right. Whereas now I'm like, no. It's a telemarketer, it's someone trying to scam something. Absolutely Yeah, you just had to answer the house phone. I mean, I guess you could let it go to your answering machine if that was They weren't doing that back then. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy. Alright, one week from now, what image or moment from this film do you think will live rent free in your head? Probably him sitting in the chair and the guts coming out. That was just it wa it was so funny to me. I'm not gonna lie, it was so funny to me because I'm like, how could he be gutted without seeing who like you don't see a body there and then the guts are just coming out? And how did he even do it in the way? It's dark. That's all you have to know, it's dark. So yeah, that's the same. What's yours? What is my scene? It's probably still always Drew Barrymore hanging from the tree. Yeah, that was wild. When the even though I know it's happening, I think it's shot perfectly. Yeah. And I remember one of the most terrifying parts to the movie to me is when the mom is on the phone and hears Casey being gutted. Yeah. And she's just like, Baby. Yeah. And then when she opens the door and the camera like does that crazy like up to Drew Barrymore's body. It was well done. Burned into my brain for life. I think it is still so effective. Of like freaking me out, and then you can kind of exhale and the movie starts and sits on her. It was well done. That was also well done. I love it. okay, so side trivia for you. This has nothing to do with screen, but has to do a scary movie. Do you know what the ending of scary movie is referencing? No. When Deputy Fist? I guess not. How could I ask that question when you thought that was the ending of screen? No, no, it's very, very famous spoiler. Alert if you ever end up watching it, twist for a very famous old movie called The Usual Suspects. Okay, I've heard of the movie because a soccer team in my sports league used to be called that. Did not know it was a movie. It is a very, very famous movie. And the character walking with the gimp foot, who then starts to walk normal, is the end of that movie. And it is a huge Character faking now. Okay. That's the ending. That's the lover. Yes. So not a scary movie. Not a scary movie, but a very famous, I guess you could kind of say a thriller. yeah. The hard part is that ending got ruined for me, so by the time I saw the usual suspects, I knew who this character was the entire movie. And it would have been one of the great twists of all time. Yeah. So by the time he does the like, I don't really have a limb like walk normal and I'm the character the whole time. Damn, that would have been great. But it already got ruined for me. Hey, Baparium. Alright, well, I love this. I'll just ask because I always do. Is there any scary movie that you love that maybe I haven't seen that you want to assign me as homework? Probably not, because I think I've seen like three or four scary movies. And continue. I'm keeping continuity on which ones they are. Even if the answer is no. Yeah, I can't remember. Even which ones I've seen. I know, because I sent you nine or ten on the list and you're like, I've seen most or I have seen most of them, yeah. You know what's a scary movie to me? I don't even know if it's technically scary. What the human sense feed one? You saw that? Mamma. I haven't even seen that because I heard about it and I was like, I think it'll make me sick. It would. It would. So there we go. How did you end up seeing that movie? Because someone was telling me about it and then I just kept hearing it and I was like, let me just watch it. I'm shocked. That's horrible. I feel like you should have a special bad. I don't think very many people have survived that movie. And that's really a whole I it is technically horror, but now we're getting into like slasher, disgusting. Disgusting. Yeah. The grossest I've gotten was terrifier. I went through that journey a couple years ago and watched all three, which that's that's rough. I love that you went past the first one after saying how rough it is. I got sucked in and I needed to know. What happened with Art the Clown? I actually recommend the first one because it was low budget, it's like a cool 85 minutes, okay, which is what a horror movie should be. Yeah, so and it's all practical effects. And I am always here to support directors, writers using practical effects. I love that. And then by the time it made a bunch of money, it was like a cult classic. By the time the second one came out, it was like two and a half hours long. And I was like, what are we doing? I don't need to watch people get disemboweled for two and a half hours. That's crazy. I recommend Terrifier one. want to watch good classic scary gory filmmaking, you bet. Love it. Or on your own with that one. Yeah, we've done it again. Thank you for coming and spending the time with me. Hopefully, it has expanded your horror movie repertoire. and for all my horror movie fans, we got to do a classic as this will actually be our episode to wrap up spooky season. So when this episode drops, Halloween will be tomorrow. So hopefully everybody's Enjoying it. Hopefully, Ghostface doesn't call you. and hopefully you don't know anyone in your life who would be Ghostface because that means he's a psychopath. So thank you again. please like, subscribe. You can find me on Instagram at dr.dotsophia Murphy. You can find the pod at C Interpretation Pod on Instagram as well. videos upload on YouTube. Would love to hear any comments. Again, if you have a doggy door in your garage door, would love to hear how that works because that sounds terrifying. to me as well. Hopefully you enjoyed scary spooky season and next we know it'll be holiday time. So we'll be figuring out some classic holiday movies that my friends haven't watched. But thanks for hanging out. Until next time. Bye.