Scene Interpretation: All right, welcome. This is going to be the inaugural episode of Scene Interpretation. Woo woo! This is a podcast where I, a therapist, am gonna have a fun conversation with a friend a movie that ⁓ of the time they haven't seen, which I'm gonna be shocked by. And then we're gonna kind of talk about how that happened, ⁓ from that, and just kind of you know tee hee hee together about cinema. ⁓ ⁓ name is Dr. Sophia Murphy. I'm a licensed therapist here in Arizona, and I have been a Cinephile for as long as I can remember. ⁓ this has been a dream of mine to be able to believe. My love of therapy and just humans and how we make sense of things with my love of films. So if you want to introduce yourself, we'll talk about what we picked for today and then dive in. Alright, I'm Thais. ⁓ I am a project manager. I do watch movies, but I wouldn't consider myself a Cenophile, especially considering all the movies I haven't seen. Which makes you perfect for being a movie. So at some point we'll have to do like a movie night and ⁓ just you know walk A couple of movies back to back. Yes. And I will also caveat, careful what you asked for. Yeah. ⁓ because I think even when we were brainstorming, I gave you like 20 movies to choose from. At least. And that's basically how my brain and heart works all the time. So we're also really shooting for the stars with this first episode because you happen to choose my favorite movie of all time, Jaws. We'll talk a little bit about why that's my favorite movie, ⁓ just for context. I must yell at people on a weekly basis. Who haven't seen Jaws to try to understand how, when it is such, in my opinion, a fundamental cinematic classic. So I am thrilled to have you here to talk about it. I'm thrilled that you were willing to watch it. I would like to say that I bullied you into it. I was gonna say, like, was it my choice? I don't know. I mean, we're gonna go 50-50. I was pushing really hard, not even for this podcast, just as my friend, of like, you have to watch this movie because what are you doing without your life? What are you doing with your life? You haven't seen this movie. So all right, we'll dive into it. My first question has a part one and a part two. Okay. ⁓ So I guess just to start, we're gonna need a bigger boat is probably one of the most quoted lines in cinema history. So I'm curious, with it having such a reputation and knowing that it basically invented the summer blockbuster movie, how do you think that affected your initial viewing of it and maybe like any pressure about like how you were supposed to feel? So the first thing I'm gonna say is the phrase you we're gonna need a bigger boat, I did not know until just now that it came from that movie. That is so amazing to me. So news flash for me. Okay, so you knew it was a a very common phrase. Yeah. Okay. We just didn't know the origin story connected to it. I mean because it just seems like a logical phrase. Like it's like we just don't have enough resources. Whatever we're talking about. Whatever. Right. I love that. But not like, hey, we're about to land this giant ass shark. We're gonna need a bigger boat. Like that context was not known. That's good. Okay, so I guess in general speaking, then knowing that the movie was famous, how did that affect your first viewing or any ideas of maybe what you were going to feel or if you thought you should feel a certain type of way? So okay, so my ⁓ what do I want to say? I knew about the movie, but because the movie is older than I am, right? It it predates me. It was never on the radar. Interesting. Okay. ⁓ even though Like I've definitely watched movies that came from the seventies. I think they came from like The Exorcist is one of them. Yep, another classic. Jaws was never it was never on the radar. Okay. And so I didn't know a ton. I mean, I knew there was a giant shark. And you know, it it it ate people. And that was kind of it. Yeah. But I never got any of like the fanfare or anything like that because I think, you know, it was before my time. Okay. That makes more sense than two. kind of dives into like how you made it this far in life and you never saw the movie, it just wasn't in your radar. It wasn't kind of in your your sphere of influence, I guess you would say. So then the part two of the question is having met me and us becoming friends, having become travel buddies who went to LA where all I talked about leading up to this trip was my desperate, and I use the word desperate literally desire slash me to go to the Academy Awards Museum because the 50th anniversary Exhibition for Jaws was happening. So you were introduced to that through me. Yes. And me talking about it endlessly for seven days. How did that affect your first view of it? Yes. And any maybe thoughts or feelings of like, ⁓ my gosh, I'm gonna, I'm supposed to leave this movie feeling blank. Okay. so it's it's so funny to me because when you wanted to go to the museum, like I'm not a museum person, so I was just kind of like, meh, sure. Wants to go, I'll ride along. Fair. And you are very like go with the flow, I have for like whatever experiences on the docket. Absolutely. And so when we got there, like because it was a museum, like my expectations are typically very low in terms of museum. And I didn't know anything about the movie, so seeing like the props and you know all of the artifacts from the actual movie didn't really land. Got it. Right. But at the same time same time I also had like context going into watching the movie where I had a reference back to the museum yeah versus the other way around. So interesting. Right. So it's like you go to the museum and you think about the things you see the things and it's because you saw your references the movie. For me it's reverse right yeah I see them in the movie and my first experience of it was the museum. Yeah. So cool. I actually think that's kind of neat because you got to see it through basically an a A viewing of adoration, right? Like the fact that it even had its own exhibition speaks to the cultural influence this film has had since 1975. And then you're kind of going into the movie with that as your foundation versus when I was introduced to it, I was probably too young. I mean, I was like seven or eight. Wow. And it was because people in my life had seen it and loved it, and it was kind of like this is one of those movies that you have to watch, you're old enough now, you've got to see it. So it already had so much history attached. watching it over my lifetime and then, you know, it hitting this fiftieth anniversary. There's been documentaries made about it, books written about it, and then the museum experience. It's just so interesting to see that reverse of like I think I've been waiting my whole life for A the Academy Awards Museum to even exist 'cause it's very new in the last few years. And then B, it to not only hit this milestone so I could see it in the theater for the first time last year, but be able to then go to this exhibition. So yeah, you're right. I see these things and it reminds me instantly of the first time I saw the movie where you watch the movie and think of, ⁓ I saw that in LA. The first time I took a trip with Sophie. Correct. And that type of history as well. Yeah. So fun. Now I will say, like, as you were talking, I remembered something again, my references, the museum, and then back to the movie. Fair. ⁓ was like the keyboard where you could play the the notes. Right. I remember. Broken in history. but I remember like as a kid, like when we would play in the pool and we would pretend like we were sharks, we would be like, Dun dunno. Okay. Right. So Snuck in just your cards. Exactly. And I knew it had to do with a shark, but like I didn't think Jaws. And so going back to like expectations and watching the movie. Yeah. I have no recollection of hearing that in the movie. Wow. Like and I was listening for it. And I don't know if it was because I watched it like not on my T V with like the surround sound and all of that and maybe maybe I'm a little old and a little deaf. I don't know. But like I didn't hear it. Okay. And so like I was really disappointed at that. That it wasn't as prominent as I was expecting it to be. Okay. Well then I would definitely sort of challenge you to watch it again or at least part of it, even just the opening scene. With the sound up or Yeah, and really listen for how that music is used also as a way to let you know the shark is coming. Yeah. ⁓ which we can get into in a little bit all the problems that they had mechanically with the shark and how not seeing the shark adds to so much, I think, psychological impact of the movie is build up. And maybe that's why it wasn't hitting like as hard because I couldn't like I couldn't hear that iconic those two notes. You know, because I again I was looking for them. Right. Right. Right and I just like they weren't as prominent as I would have expected them to be. That's fascinating. So Okay. Something to think about. So then do you think there's anything in the movie that you would have understand differently if you had seen it as a kid and before meeting me and me gushing about it in the museum, etcetera? Understand differently. seen it as a kid, one I don't think my mother would have let me see that movie as a kid. Even though like it really wasn't like there were a couple of jump scares in there, but compared to some of the other movies out there, like it's it's relatively mild. Right. You know, it really is. Yeah. And I think that was one of the things I was also kind of surprised about is like okay how mild it was. Okay. In terms of like the scare factor and all of that. that. But again, maybe it's because I missed the two notes. I don't know. ⁓ I think that's actually a perfect segue then and to talk about like what was your first impression when the movie ended? What did you think like, okay now I've seen Jaws. So again, it's probably a little more colored from our time at the museum because I had more insight into like, ⁓ they had to build this big mechanical shark and just some of your perspective around how hard people had to work to make movies and special effects without all of the digital enhancements and things back in the day. So I think I had a really good appreciation right for the movie. So that would be one. when the movie ended, I felt like there could have been like I wanted a little bit more afterstory. Yeah. Right. Like, have a barbecue with the shark. Something. Right? Because when they killed the first shark that they thought was a shark, they strung it up. They were taking pictures. Right. There was all this festivity. And then when they kill the actual one, it's just like, and we're done. Yeah. This is true. I mean, those are definitely very different moments in the film. And I'm interested to see like How did you feel because you didn't think it was as scary? Because to me, I remember feeling like relieved because it had such a build, and the shark just kept coming, and yeah, it was so dangerous and it was so ⁓ huge, and it was gonna be this like, how are they possibly gonna overcome this thing that by the time it explodes? I think I've been holding my breath for so long, yeah, especially again as a kid, but even now, because I just love it so much, it's the exhale of like, okay, it's safe to be. In the water. Even when they're paddling back, it's like, ⁓ I'm not afraid of them getting eaten now because they blew up the shark, and it's like the music's lighter and the sun's up, and it has just such this emotional exhale for me. I I understand that feeling. ⁓ and I think there was a little bit of relief knowing that the shark was gone. Right. Right. And that they could kind of paddle back safely. But there was also so with movies that you know are pure fiction. Fair. There for some reason sometimes seems to be this expectation of people behaving realistically or things being realistic, even though it's pure fiction. Sure. Right? Yeah. And so there were some moments in there that like annoyed me. Fair. Yeah. And and I think that that sort of left me feeling not necessarily annoyed. Annoyed but maybe less relieved. Mm-hmm. Right? Because I was a little annoyed through the movie with like some of those things. Sure. For example, like when the guy Destroyed the radio. Yeah. Like why? Why? Why would you do that? And I don't know if you have any insight to that, but that's like one of the questions in my notes. Okay. Why did he destroy the radio? Other than he's ⁓ mean, okay, so my thought process from ⁓ the book ⁓ ⁓ every documentary that's ever been made and watching this movie literally more times than I can count, probably close to a hundred times since I was a kid. ⁓ think the whole ⁓ when they're drinking and he's telling the story of the Indianapolis and how when he was, you know, the no life jacket. Right. And how we had to see all of his fellow seamen be eaten alive and not know if he was gonna make it, that we're taking that to a level of he is so traumatized by his lived experience that he sees this as like his epic battle. So every time he goes out shark hunting, it's him versus this beast. Right. And so the idea that Brody would call in the Coast Guard to take this opportunity away from him was his character development around like you don't understand that this is like my rite of passage. Yeah. I got away from the shark once. It's him or me. Correct. Yeah. And you're not gonna bring in some armed, you know, military people. This is my fight. And basically, like you brought me into it. I told you I'd do it for whatever money. And he did say he wanted to do it by himself, too. So okay. Okay. supposed to see him as a pretty damaged individual. ⁓ hundred percent. He's even, you know, shown earlier in the movie when all the fishermen are going out on the boats to try to catch the shark, he goes by on his boat and just kind of watches them and is like very somber of like these idiots don't know what they're doing. Like I'm the professional. And so I've always interpreted it to be both yes he is in the means of like ⁓ damaged, traumatized and And he's not gonna let Brody take this opportunity away from him. Okay. Which ends up killing him. That that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. That doesn't make me right. Not necessarily. No, that makes that makes a ton of sense though. That's what it means to me. Yeah, I I'll I'll buy that. ⁓ I love that. So I guess with that, what's interesting is that, you know, Brody spends a lot of the movie knowing that something is wrong, this is a bigger situation than they can handle, but he's often silenced over and over again. Right. And he's really I mean, way back in those days to use the term, he's kinda gaslit, right? He's making a big deal out of it. ⁓ we can get into the mayor in a moment. With just this whole narrative around like they elected him to be their sheriff, but then he is doubted, gaslit, and silenced over and over again about something being really wrong in this need take action. And I'm just curious, especially 'cause they're all white men what do you think about that in this movie? So one thing that I Noticed so take ⁓ what's the fisherman guy's name? Quint Quint. So if I compare Quint and Brody, yeah, right. When Quint comes on the scene, he literally shows up with BDE, right? Like straight up. Like I'm here. This is what I take it or leave it. Yeah, right. And Brody does not have that presence, right? And so he ends up getting pushed around and gaslit and all of these things because he He doesn't give off the same vibes at right, Quint would have never been pushed around. That's true. He would have just done whatever the hell he wanted to do. That's true. Right, and so I think the like nature of his character being a little bit more submissive or ⁓ just not willing to like Go against authority authority. Right. Or what even if it's for even if he knows, which is crazy because he knows it's wrong. Right. Right. And he knows he's right. Right. And yeah, if he had just listened to his instinct and said, you know, screw the mayor. Right. Right. More people would have been alive. But the thing is you can't It's hard to like prove something that didn't happen. Right. That's true. ⁓ can only look back in hindsight and be like, Yeah, I told you so. But had he acted, then you know the beaches would have been closed and lives would have been saved, but then he would have been probably kicked out for canceling summer. ⁓ and that's the part where I it actually think I have some empathy for Brody is I think your point is correct. He is really the antithesis of Quint, or you could say Quint is the antithesis of Brody since Brody's our hero. ⁓ But think they're also trying to show show him is like he's the family man and yeah you know he cares about this position that he we're I guess assuming he's had to work to get to right to become the sheriff where Quint is very isolated and again clearly has survived a lot and drinks his life away. Yeah, exactly. And not a rule follower. And so I think there's an interesting aspect to Brody where he is trying to operate within the system. Yeah. Of this position that I think he cares about while also seeing how run ⁓ And how corrupt and toxic it is. I know have no ⁓ relatability to twenty twenty six from nineteen seventy five at all. but yeah, I think he's trying to navigate like how do I Stay true to myself but stay true to this role and stay true to this position that I've been appointed to. And also I would imagine we're supposed to think that he's being faced with something they've never dealt with. Right. So this isn't like Jaws too. Correct. Or that's just crazy that no one believes in that movie, which I could talk forever about the fact that he saved this town and still gets no support and they just act like he's an insane random person running around The yelling shark when he lives through the first one. Yeah. but yeah, so I do think it's interesting that I think that's where you have empathy for him is like he has to kinda overcome that timidness to survive. Yeah. Because if he w waits too long or he hesitates, the shark wins. Yeah. And he has to charge forward when before it was Quint doing that. Pretty cool. ⁓ so kind of in the same vein where we're talking about none of this is relatable today. I guess after watching this, have you related to maybe like being in an environment or being in a situation where like you thought things were one way and then you find out they're not, and maybe it requires like bucking the system or going along with it and like how how would you have navigated that or have you navigated that? been I really have to think hard. I don't know that I've been in that situation. I tend to mostly be a rule follower unless there's like like if there's no consequences to not following the rules then, you know, whatever. Yeah. but in terms of like bucking the system, like I'm probably like I'm not the one yeah, you know, to rock the boat necessarily. Yeah. ⁓ especially if there's like potentially real consequences. I I wish I was more of that person 'cause even when I think about things happening today, like people going out and protesting or like I'm probably not gonna be out there with you. Fair. But if there's some place I can send money, I know that that's my role. Yeah. You'll think when Yeah, exactly. I'll pay the ten thousand dollars. Yes. You're willing to do it, I'm willing to pay you. Totally fair. And I think about that a lot too, of like if I was the family person and had worked for this role and finally made it there and I'm again trying to operate within the confines of the system, like, I don't know that I would straight up go against them. 'Cause I think there's this part too, if I just quit, who becomes the sheriff in this little tiny town? And are they just gonna do what the mayor's asking them to do anyway? Is it Well, and it literally is just Brody. Like I don't even know if he could he has like his little deputy or whatever even more beta than he is. Correct. ⁓ my gosh, yes. And even the first time he meets the mayor, the mayor shows up with four of his goons. Yes. Like literally. And the meeting is on the freaking moves the cars back and forth. It's not even like giving him his full attention. Five grown ass men. Yes. Hop out of this car. Yes. One car. Yes. And a literal clown car. Literally a clown car. And like accost Brody and basically roll up on him like a gang. Yes. And like frighten him, essentially. Intimidate him for sure. Absolutely. And I'm like Where do they do mean, I don't know. Like I ha ⁓ so over the weekend speaking of movies, it's completely like unrelated but sort of related to I love it. I was at like a work thing and one of the people we were talking about movies and like movies we had never seen and someone brought up The Godfather mm and I was like, Yeah, I've never seen The Godfather And they're like, Thais, you've just gone from here to here and so that night I started watching The Godfather. Also a classic for sure. And so I didn't get through the whole thing 'cause it's really long, but it's really what really good. But it had like, you know, you have like The Godfather and then you have all of his goons. Yes. Right. And so like that when I watched it the second time, like having watched The Godfather, like that's one of the things that I picked up was like this one person and all of his goons just showing up and all this power. All this power and you know just throwing their weight around. Right. When I think in that vein too, I there's this interesting underlying theme about how Brody's not really one of them. Yeah. He's not an islander. Which also is interesting. Why would you make your share of someone who came from outside this little town? Like he comes from the city, right? Yeah. Anyway. In that vein, though, it's interesting how they use that to isolate him. You don't really correct. Right. That's part of the gaslighting. It's like you don't know how it operates here. You don't know how we've run this town for decades or whatever it used to be. like and back in the seventies like that part of the country really was like very white collar or excuse me blue collar now it's more much more white collar affordable family like it wasn't this huge tourist attraction that it is now where people have these homes that only the ultra wealthy can afford. And so this idea that like even though he's one of them he's not one of them. Yeah. And so he's also trying to like prove his status, prove his role and then even Ellen, his wife She gets those comments too of like you'll never be one of us, you're never gonna be an islander. Yeah. And so it's interesting to see how like he's trying to fit in as an adult. Not a kid, right? Like he's not a high schooler. But you can see those same sort of like social structures at play where the mayor seems like he's been the mayor for a very long time. He has these people that do his bidding and they all gang up against Brody even though Brody's trying to be the voice of reason. I mean that the mayor's basically the bully, right? And, you know Brody's the new kid that's getting picked on. Exactly. And adulthood is basically high school with money. You're not wrong. So not wrong. It's depressing when you think of it as like we're always trying to navigate those social structures and the hierarchy that goes along with it. So I guess, kind of again bringing it back to like how this applies now is the other theme is that the town of Amity itself is constantly trying to keep the beach open. We're talking about the mayor, but all the people that come and vote, right? Like people that own all the shops and the hotels, like they know a girl was attacked and they still want to keep the beaches open. So like when have we seen people, places, institutions prioritize comfort and status over the truth? What do we think about that? Yeah. ⁓ so I think the I want to make a comment about the first person who died. ⁓ yeah, because was she I'm assuming she wasn't an Islander because it seemed like nobody cared. It's a great point. You know what I mean? Like but when the little boy died. For sure. Right? Now all of a sudden, ⁓ we gotta find the shark, we gotta well and also there was three thousand dollars on the line. So I don't I don't know if it was because it was someone that they knew or the three thousand dollars or both, but it's like They placed different sort of value on life depending on you know whether it was the girl or the little boy or whomever, right? This is why I love having conversations because again, like I said, I've probably seen this movie almost a hundred times. I've never wondered about Chrissy's family or why no one came looking for her. No one came looking for her. And that is a brilliant point as to why they didn't seem outside of Brody again to care about this woman being brutally attacked. Even the boyfriend was just like, ⁓ you know, I kinda fell asleep on the you know, maybe she got too drunk. Maybe she she was like he was like, maybe she drowned. Like, he's not hurt or And maybe he wasn't the boyfriend, he was like a jump off. I think they just met at that bird. Okay. Fair enough. Not to defend the drug privileged young white man who doesn't care about the girl he tried to hook up With dying, but I do think in context he didn't know her. Okay. He met her at the party. She was that free spirit in the very seventies. But to your point, like where's her family? Where's her family? She went away for the weekend and never came back. Excellent point. I guess I always just took what was given to me, which was I really thought it was more because the boy was murdered in front of everybody. Nobody saw her die. That's it. They just saw the remains. And when everybody looks up and sees, you know, the squirting blood. And the raft get torn up. Well, and all their children were out there and it could have been their kid. Correct. That to me was always the storyline I just went with was like you couldn't deny it. Yeah. Whether you wanted to call it a great white shark or the smaller shark, you may not have to be a marine biologist to know that part, but what you know is something came out of the water and destroyed and mauled and ate this little boy in front of all of you. But didn't they still want to keep the beaches open after that? Yeah, I mean I think that's when they went after the smaller shark though. That's right. And so it was like within a day they caught the small shark. Okay. And it was done. Mm. And we were gonna move on with our lives. Yeah, so then you have like again, what was the the scientist guy's name? Cooper. Cooper. Cooper with an each. You know, people not like listening to science and listening to logic and listening to reason. Sort of going back to your question about like what are the things that we see, today. Yeah. Right. And people just like making up their own science. Or you know, like, ⁓ just use some bleach or a little sunshine'll kill it. Cure your right. Yeah. Well science is made up, so we don't really need to worry about these things. There is no virus. ⁓ you know, whatever. I think we see that all the time. But again, I think it goes back to what they did in the movie, which was prioritizing profit absolutely over people's lives. Unless like the people's lives actually impact the profit. Correct. Right? Like then they care. Yes. And that always stood out to me even when I was really young. Like, as much as the mayor is this like insane, you know, kind of egomaniac, needs to keep the beaches open, needs to keep his numbers high, of course, because he's a mayor so he's elected, the fact that it takes his son almost being killed the second time, not the first time. Right. The second time when the shark eats that nice man who's trying to help the kids in the boat. And his answer is, you know, my kids are out there too. It's like now you're willing to sign the paperwork for Brody. Now you're willing to hire the shark hunter. Now you're and that that to me is the most heartbreaking thing that I don't think has changed at all. Well and like why does it always take the extreme to listen to reason? Correct. Right? Like I have I could even think of like a personal story where I think I don't know if I've told you, like, I have a 95, almost 96-year-old grandma. Yeah. Right. She lives by herself. and like she needs more help. Right. And I keep telling my mom, like, she needs more help, she needs more help, she needs more help. And like my mom wasn't doing anything. Right. Right. And it took, you know, again, me like sending her like a video and like her going to the hospital, like all of these extreme. extreme things when it was very clear. Before that. Way before that. Yes. And I have been saying it over and over and over and over again. But because she wasn't here to see it. Kind of like the girl. Right. Right. Nobody saw it. Even though they knew it happened or they knew what was going on or they knew whatever. They had the knowledge. They didn't do anything for whatever reason. Yep. So I do think that's like this part of at least Western humanity. I can't speak for like other cultures. But there is this weird blind spot of like until it's in my face. Yeah. Or affecting me directly or threatening my family, my people that I care about directly, or even maybe my body, not even my family. It doesn't matter, or it maybe that's not the right way to phrase it. I can ignore it. Yeah. I can't argue that it doesn't matter to somebody, I don't know how they feel. It's like it's easy to ignore. There you go. It's like a avoidance to the max of like my comfort of not having to face it is what I would prioritize. Yeah. Over the discomfort of having to even explore what's actually happening. Even when you think about like people trying to organize boycotts and sure, you know, don't go to Target or don't go to wherever. like even personally, like I'm like, ⁓ actually sharp at Target anyway, so me boycotting Target, not a big deal. It's not discomfort. No, not really. But like what happens when I need that like one thing? Sure. Right? Does this twelve dollars really matter? Right. Right? Or is it just, you know, should I just like give them the twelve dollars because it's my conven you know what I It's easier. Or should I stand on principle? And yeah, it's it's easier to just go to Target. Yeah. And not, you know, try to be part Part of the change because you don't want to have to drive around and find another store to find this thing. 100%. Yeah, until everyone can sort of get out of that mindset and realize that no, it actually like every little bit matters. Absolutely. Then we're not gonna see change. I agree. And I think that that's so interesting that like a book written in 1974 that became a movie in 1975 so relevant today. Still hits on those exact points of like we literally had to see. A little boy be eaten in front of all of us before we would listen to the fact that something was up or something needed attention. Yeah, even now when we see the people being shot in the streets in front of our faces, right? Because it's on a screen and it's not at your feet. Correct. Right? Like you're some people are some people are rightfully outraged, and some others are just like, you know, not my circus. Not my city, not happening right here. I can again. And turn my eyes away and not have to deal with the truth. I'll just stay in my little comfort. Yeah. Which I just think is so fascinating. Again, like those are the emotions I think get really get evoked by using the shark as kind of the big bad thing. Yeah. As opposed to like the deeper capitalism and diplomacy and colonialism. And again, and I don't know that that's what Peter Benchley was going for in the 70s. I do think he was definitely speaking to the point of you know the comfort over the truth. And like keeping the status quo. I do believe that that was his point in the movie. Now, all the other stuff, I don't know. ⁓ I doubt, I actually don't even know if he's still alive, but I just think it's fascinating that a lot of that feels very relevant. Yeah. And I'm not even so sure in 2026, if we lived in a beach town and a shark killed a person, would we shut down the beach? We'd probably just say swim at your own risk. Probably. That's your problem, not our problem. ⁓ and I'm not advocating to go out and try to kill every shark in the ocean. ocean, that's what happened when the movie came out. But even the idea of Was that what happened? Yeah, that was one of the really unintended consequences is that people became very phobic of sharks. Wow and started hunting sharks almost to extinction in certain parts of the country. I should not know that. That's crazy. And so it led to a lot of people trying to educate about how really in reality the risk of getting, you know, attacked by a shark is so so low compared to just like driving in your car and right getting hit by another driver and that being fatal. Sharks don't really want to eat us, you know. It's an accident kind of thing. But then you wouldn't have the big scary movie that changed everything. But yeah. And all the subsequent shark movies to follow. I know. Which is a whole other thing I could talk about forever, but ⁓ yeah, so let's switch gears a little bit. What questions did you have or what maybe was something you wanted to chat about as something that you took away? ⁓ let me think. I did I did take a couple of notes. Okay, so we already sort of talked about like that expect my like expectation of things being realistic in something that's completely fictional. Sure. Right. And so like the thing that brought that up was like the opening scene of like the girl getting dragged around like the surface when she was being, you know, attacked by the shark. And I'm like, a shark's not gonna drag her around the surface like that. Like, you know, not that I'm like a marine biologist or anything, but I still believe ⁓ in my expert opinion. That would never happen in this completely fictional movie. I have no idea actually if sharks play with their food like that or not. That's true. but like so that was sort of like the first thing that I guess annoyed me. That's I felt like that was not realistic in this completely unrealistic movie. Okay. We already talked about the mayor and his goons. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ we talked about Quint and his BDE showing up and having zero flex to go. Saying this is just how it's gonna be. Yes. ⁓ one of the things that I wrote down are why are people so dumb? Yeah, let's unpack that one. And this had to do with ⁓ like the scene where all the people are like getting into the boats and they're like trying to go out there and catch the shark. And if if this shark is as big as people are s why are five or six of you getting in a little dinghy with fishing rods to catch a shark? Correct. I just don't understand. Like people are so but yet People are so dumb in real life. Yeah. I don't know that that part is changed. So my giving it a little bit of grace answer is a couple parts. I try to think of like the suspension of disbelief and ha again when the book was written and when the movie is playing out, if it's the first time you've ever seen it, it's also hard too 'cause Jaws has influenced so many movies since then. So to watch it now with everything that's come out since, you're already tainted, right? Yeah. From the first time something like this was made. And I don't know enough ⁓ my own cinematic history, ⁓ there really any movie where an animal attacks people in this way prior to Jaws? Okay. Yeah. I really I mean you had like the creature from the Black Lagoon and stuff like that, but even that was more of like an exploration of like a a a person-like figure ⁓ this sort of like longing to be with people than a creature that just like mindlessly kills. ⁓ I think of it from the perspective of by the time that scene happens, ⁓ knows. knows how big the shark is. That's Hooper hasn't arrived yet. Okay. And Hooper's the smart person who looks at the bite marks and tells us like the radius of this mouth is humongous, not this little shark that these guys captured. It's impossible. So I think about it just in like the context of we have information that the characters in the film don't have. We haven't seen the shark. We don't know how big it is yet. And again I think we're supposed to look at it from this perspective of nothing like this has ever happened in this town. Yeah. So they're They are dumb, don't they? Like a frenzy. Yeah. Mindless frenzy. Absolutely. And I don't know that they have much context to look at it from any other way. Fair. I also think there's a part, and this is me totally speculating that in order to also make Hooper look so smart, you have to give something a contrast. So you got these kind of like townspeople. Yeah. That I mean, even the way they like talk to him and the way he talks to them. And even Brody says, like again to his deputy, like, these are your people. They listen to you. Go out and talk to them. Like I do think there's a little classism there that they're highlighting of like we're supposed to see Hooper as you know, he is a PhD and like I don't think we're supposed to think any of them have education like that. Well it's interesting 'cause I remember one scene where I think they had caught the shark and Hooper is there and there's like a couple of guys and they're talking to him, but they're talking Really loudly. Yes. Unnecessarily. Yes. Right? And I'm like, why are they shouting at him? Right? But then going back to the whole class thing about like it almost makes them look like maybe a little low just because they're they're not good communicators. Correct. Right. And then you have Cooper who's relatively calm and like, you know, has a normal tone of voice and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, I I kind of see that, you know, that contrast, right, between the the townies and correct and those smart scientists from the oceanographic institute. Yeah. brings in 'cause I think we're also supposed to give Brody that credit of like he's recognizing what he doesn't know. Yes. Where the townspeople are kinda gonna double down of like you're not gonna tell us Right. You're not from there. Yeah. Right. How to sh how to fish and how to manage these waters and like we grew up here and kind of even that divide being relatable today is like when we're trying to work to a common goal we're still coming at it from a very divisive perspective. Yeah. Of like you're not gonna bring your smart, educated, you know holier than thou attitude in here and tell us how to you know keep our people safe. And it's like we're all in this together. Like all of us are food. So why are we arguing about the smart person versus like the fishermen? We all want the same thing. Absolutely. Yeah. That's and we don't have to jump into that yet 'cause I wanna know what else you have. But I think that really plays out when they're on the boat. And Hooper and Quint just cannot get it together. Mm-hmm. And you've got like Quint representing the ultimate, don't tell me with your smart educated self. Yeah. And then you have Hooper just being like, Why are you being so freaking dumb when we're all trying to do the same thing? Mm-hmm. And it of course comes to a head, literally. Yeah. No, 'cause I even remember the part where Hooper was like, It's not the shark, right? When he had and then it breaks the line and you know, now they're having this like, you know, like who's Who knows more. It's like a dick swinging content. It absolutely is. There was a lot of that throughout the whole movie. Yes. Yes. Which I think again they did a good job of showing that as like a con and not glorifying the like machismo between these three. They actually show it as a shortcoming. Right. Because like the more that they turn in inward and fight, the less they're accomplishing. And it isn't really like the strongest, most macho guy that wins. Right. It's the timid trying to do the right thing way in over his head guy who saves the day. Although when they were getting into their like scar pissing contests, right, that almost like brought them together. That is true. Versus And lots of alcohol. Yeah. I always think about like how they seem like three guys who got really drunk and shot that scene again. Like that feels very real. Yeah. And like that's how they could stop fighting for five minutes. Yeah. Was to all just be and I guess you could kind of say like Hooper has to come down to that not come down but like has to come to that level or like shift to that part of himself to finally have some relatable conversation with Quint where they're not at each other's throats. Yeah. Yeah. But I do love that scene though. Because again I think that's the first time we feel any empathy for Quint when you learn about the Indianapolis and yeah even that reference, having seen that movie so long ago, like that real story of the Indianapolis has come up so many times in my life since then. ⁓ really. And that's the first time I ever heard of it. child was in jaws. And learning later that that's true. So the story he told is actually true, like the people got eaten by sharks. Correct. Wow. That they were such a secret mission delivering the bomb that when they were in the ocean no one knew to come and save them. Wow. And obviously the fiction part of like him being one of them, but taking that real story in American history and making that his backstory. ⁓ it's genius. Was pretty brilliant. Yeah. To again humanize him when we've been saying that what you were saying this whole time is like, why is he acting like this? Why is he putting their lives in danger? Yeah. And then I think that was kind of like a very early exploration of like, Wow, this guy is pretty messed up. Mm-hmm. And this is him trying to make sense of that by again, me versus one shark at a time. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause when you go to the scene where they're in his like holdout, wherever. Yeah you have all the shark ⁓ jaws in there. Like clearly he's been like him and Hooper have both been having this relationship with sharks. Yes. In a very different way. For a very long time and in a very different way. That's such a good point. 'Cause I always f until you said that I forgot about how Hooper Tells his story to Ellen Brody at the dinner table. Like, how did you get into sharks? Right. And he talks about, I mean, clearly he comes from money, you know, he comes from a very different background about how he got this boat as a gift. Yeah. And he's out there and he gets attacked by a shark and he swims to shore and then looks back and watches the shark take apart his boat piece by piece. And that's his love and fascination of animal, where you have Quint who watched his friends be eaten alive and made it out by what. whatever you want call it, divine intervention, pure luck, whatever, and has had to live with that forever. Yeah. You have one person seeking sharks again is like, I'm curious, I'm interested, from the privilege of like I study them. Yeah. And then this other man who's like devoted his life to it's the sharks versus me. Yeah. A hundred percent. What shark is gonna pay for Yeah. All of them must pay. ⁓ Yes. So true. Alright, anything else that you'd written down? ⁓ what else did I have here? ⁓ And some of the stuff is just like stupid. ⁓ okay. So here's we talked about the dumb people. I think the mayor is a snake. Fair. ⁓ and the reason that I think that is ⁓ the scene where the mom whose boy died. Yeah, right. She's got like on her all black in morning and she comes up and she slaps Brody in the face. Yeah. And the mayor is standing right next to him. Yeah. And she's like, You knew two weeks ago that the girl died. Yeah. My question is, ma'am, how did you know he knew? Who told you that he knew? Because the mayor and all his goons also knew. You're right. So somebody had to tell her it was Brody, or they were like deflect you know what I mean? Like deflecting from the there were so many people that knew. You're right. But she blames him. That's true. Right? Which means that someone must have also you know what I mean? Someone else must have also blamed Him. Well, and I was wondering too, if like because he's like the quieter, timid person, and they're kind of both, I guess, law enforcement, that might not be the correct terminology, but they're both government officials. Right. Would she have ever slapped the mayor? Absolutely not. Right. So Brody's just correct. But I still think somebody probably pointed her to Brody. And I think it was probably the mayor or the mayor adjacent. Totally fair. Well, because again they They're not taking any responsibility. None. They're absolutely right. And even i even in that scene Brody takes responsibility too. Correct. She walks away and I think the mayor says something like she's wrong. Exactly. And he says no, she's not. Yeah. And so it's like even in that scene, the mayor is still ten toes down that what we did or didn't do was fine. And she's overreacting. Mm-hmm. And Brody has enough of a head on her shoulders to say, like, no, she's right. Like we fucked up. We dropped the ball. Well and I think he he said he's he took responsibility. Right? He's not even doing the we thing. You're right. You know? Which I think again speaks to his role in not his role but like his character's identity of like he seems to take his position really seriously and he seems to care and if anything he probably could have been more critical of the larger group and less self critical. Yeah. does seem to s take a lot of the blame, which again is his to take. It's just not only his to take. Absolutely. Yeah. Great. So I thought I thought that was interesting. Mm-hmm. ⁓ let's see. The last thing, ⁓ so we talked about why Quint smashed the radio. We talked about me wishing that there were scenes after the shark was killed. The only other weird thing that I notice is that the mayor has this stupid gray jacket with anchors on it. And it shows up in two separate scenes that are like days apart. Right. It's like his uniform. But like in between, he's wearing different ja and I'm like, this jacket is not cute. Like, and yet you saw fit to wear it multiple times. I wonder if there's like a. That's like a continuity like in shooting. You know what I mean? They shot both of those scenes with him in the same question. And then when they edited it, it just So what's funny is I think I always just assumed that that was considered a cool look because it's the seventies and it's that beachy, waspy, northern, western sorry, northeast look. For the time, I never even thought about it being a continuity or I always kind of looked at all their clothes, like even Ellen Brody's hair, like all that stuff is just like this is what they thought was ⁓ back in the day. And maybe he he or the costume department are both just really Really like that jacket. Now the only other thing that I will say, and I don't know if this was like intentional, but it has anchors on it. Right. Right? And I'm like, he kind of is the character that is holding Brody back. Right. Actually, maybe it is. And in both of those scenes, I believe they're you know, they're talking about like we're not gonna close the beaches or something like that, right? And so he's like hold he's being the anchor that's holding Brody back from like making people safe. I like that answer. I like it intentional because A lot of times we think of the anchor as a positive thing, right? Like it grounds us or keeps us steady. And in this example, it's like drowning them. Yeah. Like it's pulling them down from actually making any decisions, making any progress. That's fascinating. I did my homework. I love it. I want to do some research now of like was it intentional that the mayor wore that jacket twice in the original movie jaws? And see if I mean it so much has been written now. I wonder. I'm sure somebody's somebody else has caught it, not just me. I love it. I love that. I love that. Those are all the notes that I had. Those are great. I think I only had just a couple more. ⁓ just kind of going back to even the depiction of masculinity and the fact that like Brody defeats the shark despite having really no experience with this. He's the only person out of the three of them who's afraid of water. Yeah. ⁓ he has no prior experience of boating. and yet he's the one that overcomes. And so I'm just kind of wondering what you think about that choice being made and him having to go outside of his comfort zone to succeed. So I think that sometimes people look at like I think he was brave, yeah, right, from the perspective of you you continue to push forward despite the fact, yeah, right, or in spite of your fear, in spite of you you aren't the most qualified, you aren't the most experienced, versus someone like Quint, like I don't think he was brave. Right. You know what I mean? I don't think he was scared, so there was exactly There's no bravery. Yeah. And so, ⁓ whereas someone might look at Quint and think of him as being more masculine. And usually you associate bravery maybe with like masculinity and those two things would align. Yeah. And you might think Brody is less masculine, but he's actually more brave. I agree. Right? And so, you know, he's also like the family man and ⁓ it's it's so interesting that he he's almost like the depiction of the nice guy. ⁓ for sure. Or the good guy. Yes. Right. And when I think about like the type of guys that either like myself or like other people will go for a lot of times, like it's not that guy. Right. Right. But he's the one who ended up pulling through and saving the day. And so I think we have a very like narrow sense of what masculinity is. ⁓ for sure. Especially back then. ⁓ yeah. Definitely back then. And I would say even still now. Yes. Absolutely. Because it can it can come in so many different forms, but it's like ultimately he was trying to be the protector, right? Yes. Which we tend to associate with masculine, whereas again, Quint was just trying to like feed his own ego. Work through some of his demons and something and make some money on the side for sure. He found a way to capitalize on his sort of reckless abandonment with his own life. Exactly. Yeah. So interesting. And I think Back to again, like I know Roy Schneider, that's who plays Brody, had been in movies before Jaws, but again, before our times. But I think there's something very important about casting him. Because even though he was a recognizable actor, you're right, he doesn't bring that same sort of traditional stereotypical gravitas. Right. And I remember thinking when I was young and not knowing who he was, like I thought for sure he was gonna die. Like I just didn't know that he was gonna end up being our hero. I figured he would move the plot line along but for probably my own biases or whatever I thought it would be yeah the weathered fisherman guy went or the scientists. Okay, yeah. I just don't think I thought that like the timid, nice, really even just like not even physically intimidating. No, not at all. Man would be the one to come out alive against this, you know, never before seen massive man eating machine. And thinking that that was pretty cool. Yeah. And also I will never forget the first time I saw Quint get eaten on that boat. Like that changed me as a being of just like this feels so viscerally real. Mm-hmm. And having to wait so long to see the shark, I thought built up that psychological distress of just like, what are we really up against? I did not expect Quint to be eaten by the shark. Really? I didn't. Okay. And when it happened, I was like, considering his backstory, it was kind of like serendipitous, like Okay, this is like your ultimate yeah nemesis or foe or yeah. Yeah, exactly. And ⁓ the fact that like that's how he went out But it it took the ultimate correct predator to take him out too. So it was like a worthy opponent, which goes back to like maybe that's why he smashed the radio, because you know, you have like Superman and Lex Luther, like worthy opponents. Correct trying to take each other. Yeah, I think that that is also kind of a profound part of the story of like he dies doing kind of the only thing he could do with his life, which was like it was gonna And be some shark, probably eventually. Yeah. So why not be the shark that again no one had ever expected to encounter or have to interact with? And I just thought that that scene was so emotionally distressing of like and even just like all the blood in the water that like flows. It was very well done. It was very well done. Especially considering when you know back in the 70s. Like I thought that that was very like so visceral. Yeah. Like you could feel it after all these decades. Yeah, it was it was well done. And I will say, I mean, I think even though that was probably too gory for me at that age, that's what made me love this movie and really movies in general so much, was just like trying to figure out how they did it. Like I always tell people, I was young enough to understand I was old enough to understand it wasn't real. Right. But I was young enough that I was totally sucked in and like literally terrified. Yeah. And to this day, even though like you didn't put the Those dots together, I still hear the Jaws music in my head in the swimming pool. I still think there's some chance that a shark's gonna come up to the bottom if I go like night swimming and kill me. Yeah. Like it's one of those movies that fundamentally altered how I felt about certain places in the world. And like I'll go to a beach and only get in the water up to my knees. Because it's just like I know in my brain if I go out and it's dark water and I'm not able to hit the bottom, I'm going By a shirt. So it's funny. I remember a few years ago I went snorkeling. And so like you take you on a boat and you go out, whatever, there's like a little coral reef. And so where we went snorkeling, there was like where you could see the bottom. It was still, you know, like twenty feet down however far down it was. But then there was like this cliff. It was almost like in finding Nemo. Yes. Right. And then it was just like deep dark blue. Yes. Changed. It was so like just looking over there. Like I think I accidentally Sort of swam towards it one time. It was terrified. Yes. Right. And I don't know if it's necessarily like I think it's more the unknown. Right. Right? Like I don't know what's out there. I can see what's below me. Right. Right? Where it's shallow. And even some of that stuff was terrifying. For sure. To be honest. Probably could still hurt me. ⁓ absolutely. ⁓ and so yeah, I totally relate to like the deep blue, like, I have no desire to jump off of a boat in the middle of the ocean. None whatsoever. Whatsoever. No, I took this movie as almost like a cautionary tale for literally the rest of my life of just like I'm not swimming in the ocean in the nighttime. I'm really not swimming in the ocean in the daytime. ⁓ and I'm definitely not going out further than I can see the bottom. Yeah. And even though again, I know statistically the odds of getting attacked are so low, it just had such a fundamental impact on how I saw the terrors of what you can't see. Yeah. And again, like kind of coming full circle. even though I mean there's again documentaries about this, tons has been written tons has been written about the challenges of the mechanical shark. The fact that we don't see it for so long I think actually intensified that fear. Yeah. Right? Like even though I know you're talking about like Chrissy being pulled all over seem maybe not accurate, but I do think it was effective. ⁓ absolutely. Because you can't see what's killing her. But clearly it's not good. And it's so dark and it's so violent. And and there's no blood or anything, obviously, because it's nighttime. But just to imagine too. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. But just to imagine something coming up from below. That like out of nowhere. Correct. Like she's having this grand old time and the sun's setting and it's beautiful and she's met this cute guy and then it was just like Could that happen? Like that thought stays with me till this day. Yeah. And I just love how effective this movie was and is in that way of just like to me, that's what movies are. To get me out of whatever's going on and make me think about these things and affect me on such an emotional psychological level makes it kind of fun. Yeah. and like I taught I said earlier, like that relief that I feel when they kill the shark. Every time. I'm like, okay, you can be in the water now and you're not in being level. ⁓ I just think that this movie does it so well. And then everything else copied it. Well, and I think that's why people are afraid of sharks even to this day. Sure. Right? Even though I like to say sharks don't like dark bee. Well, I mean, I know this movie was made in the seventies, but I do wonder what it would be like with a black cast. I had that saying 'cause we ain't going in the ocean like that. It would be a short movie. Yeah. I wasn't planning on getting in anyway. Yeah. We're good. Movie's over. We moved away. Or we just don't go in the water. I don't think I saw I don't recall seeing any black people in the movie whatsoever, which would make sense given it's supposed to be almost like a Martha's Vineyard kind of thing. But yeah. Yeah, I've like actively looked over the years and when the boat I don't know what you would call it, the ferry arrives and brings the gr large groups of people before the little boy gets killed, there's like two. Okay. Extra nothing. So there's like maybe two that I've seen that are coming off that boat. And they might be like a family. But yeah, other than that, it's a very monolithic white cast just period. Which again, time and place, I think that kind of makes sense. But I do think on a deeper level, talk about being unrealistic, it just that's not really our culture. Yeah, especially back then, like what black family would be living in that area ⁓ taking their kids to the beach. Like if you remade it now it'd probably have to be a different part of the country to make that even still realistic. And it would be probably like the Brody character who like moved there for the job. Yeah. ⁓ because he's a you know a black sheriff. He doesn't necessarily an outsider. Correct. I feel like that would be like the way that it would be rewitten. But awesome. All right. So as we're wrapping up, ⁓ I'm curious, kind of a week from now, or maybe just in the future, what image if any might live rent free in your brain from this movie? definitely the image of Quint being eaten by the shark. Like that one definitely stands out to me. Or there was one where ⁓ I think where Brody was on the boat and he like sees the shark and it like pops its head up out of the water. Yes. And he kind of like ⁓ the shark is you he scrambles. Yeah, he starts scrambling. Like that one I thought was really, really profound. Like that one resonates with me too. Yes. Because like you said, you don't really see the shark for the good a good portion of it. And then when you do it's like massive. Yes. You know? Bigger is as big or bigger than the entire boat that they're on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean I think just remembering again like seeing it when I was really young and it was new. I think one of the scenes that actually really got me, which we didn't talk about, was when Hooper takes the boat at night with Brody to go explore the feeding area and they find that one boat that's already been attacked and he goes underwater and the head comes out. That that was a jump scare for me. That's still effective. Yeah. It doesn't matter how many times I've seen the movie, I know it's coming and I like tense up. I'm like waiting for the head to Even yesterday when I watched it again. I'm like, there's like this there's a body in there, isn't there? Yes, yeah. That still gets still gotten ⁓ for The the water and the shark coming up, and that's the famous line, you're gonna need a bigger boat. Yeah. Because he just backs up into the boat to tell Quint. Yeah, and then absolutely Quint getting eaten. Like I would honestly hold that up in practical effects, some of the stuff we do today. Yeah. Like it blows my mind every time. See it, and it's so long and dragged out and the scream that Quint gives. Yeah, it's just it's perfect in terms of effectiveness. Absolutely, absolutely. But yeah, all right, awesome. Any final thoughts on our first episode and talking about my favorite movie of all time? And no, this was fun. I did introduce to it. Yeah, I didn't really know what it would be, but it was it was a good time, and I'm glad I got to not only watch the movie but talk about it and even give you a couple of like different thoughts about a movie you've seen a hundred times. Literally I deep diving where was Chrissy's family and how come I came looking for her. And I am literally sitting here thinking, how have I never had this thought before? Like that was brilliant. And I don't think I gave that specific piece that much thought before. So I love that you did. That was great. Well thank you for watching a movie that is so near and dear to my heart and taking the assignment and spending time with me and we'll definitely love to have you back. I think I'm gonna end every episode. We'll see how this lands with this question. What's a movie that you love that you f and are shocked when other people haven't seen? ⁓ interesting. I can think of a movie that I love. I don't know that anyone has never seen it though. Like one of my favorite movies, I think we talked about this is Spike Club. Yes. ⁓ but I feel like everybody's, you know everyone's seen that one. Okay. And then another one of my favorite movies is Finding Nemo, which again everyone has seen. ⁓ those are the two that usually come to mind. Okay. So I think I'm gonna start incorporating that and see if someone can bring one to the table that I haven't seen. ⁓ okay. And kind of flip the script and then I'll take that on as some homework. Okay. I love both those movies and have seen them. Now I'm trying to think like what's a movie that I've seen that maybe you haven't seen. I'll have to think about that one. Okay. It could be a to be continued. Yeah. Because I'm thinking it would be neat for then me to have to take my own advice. Yeah. That a friend of mine really loves that has somehow missed my viewing. ⁓ I don't know about that one. Okay. Alright, well thanks for hanging out with us. ⁓ hopefully this was a a fun experience for you. I will be interviewing friends and colleagues and ⁓ maybe even other Cenophiles and see if we can stump each other. So thanks for listening to episode one and stay tuned because I have some great other movies on the horizon already. Alright, talk to you later. Thank you.