DOC: Welcome back to another episode of Scene Interpretation. I am Dr. Sophia Murphy, a licensed therapist here in Arizona. And if you've been listening to any episodes or following along, then you know that I am your local neighborhood Cinephile. I'm having the best time watching my favorite movies and dragging my friends along. So today I have Jared, if you want to introduce yourself, we'll start talking about our movie. Good to meet you all, good to see you all eventually. Yeah, my name is Jared. Friend of Murph's and we work together as well. So yeah. Yeah. And one of the things you know is that I'm constantly talking about movies. I'm constantly asking if you've seen a movie. And now with the podcast I got to force you to see a movie that you've never seen before. And so today we're gonna be talking about paranormal activity. And this could go a few different ways. Because before we got on mic I got a little teaser of how you felt. And to me, this was one of the scariest movies when it first came out. yeah, I'm sure. So in celebration of spooky season, I picked it because I remember being terrified. Yeah. So kind of as we're diving into the conversation, just give me your general takeaways, your sense, what did you think of seeing paranormal activity finally for the first time? Well I've always wanted to watch it, especially like it came out when I was a kid. Yeah. So like but it was really good. definitely older movies. That's the part I was waiting for. So older movie for sure, but I mean I've seen movies like The Conjuring. Yep. Some of those ones. Those are scarier, but definitely just with the context when it was coming out, like true story and everything. So it definitely could play into it being like scarier. Yes. You know? So but yeah, it was good. It was cornyer in my opinion. But it was good. I could tell it was a for sure classic. Well, and I think the age difference of like when you saw it now takes a lot of that shock away. Of course. So one of the things I was revisiting is that the marketing campaign when this movie first came out, and I don't know if you read any of things about it, but it convinced people that this was real footage and that Mika and Katie were actually missing and literally people were buzzing and talking about it because we really thought like this was footage that the police had found and that Mika was dead and Katie was missing. And so people were even too scared to go see it. Right. And so I wonder, like, knowing that it's obviously fabricated and not true, how do you think that affected how scary it was, how it impacted you, how it landed? I think with that context too And I kind of looked at it from that perspective because I did a little bit of research on it. But it definitely has or would have an impact on you know how people are perceiving the movie or seeing the movie, especially at a time like that. I believe they were hidden away. Yeah, they like had to stay in a hotel, be incognito. Right. So with them being incognito like hidden in a hotel, and like it being actually discovered by the police, you know, that definitely would play into it. And I'm sure we'll get into it a little bit further with the movie, but like I think. There like Katie had like the bite marks and like all these other which would like terrify anyone thinking that it's a true story or actual photos. Yeah. And it almost it makes me really like nostalgic in a good way because it was right on the cusp of social media taking off. Yeah. And so it wasn't the type of thing where you were talking to anybody except the people in your immediate vicinity. For sure. Like if you knew someone who went and saw it, they're hyping it up and they're talking about how terrifying it was, and then the the fabrication is spreading around like it's real found footage. Katie's still missing, they found Mika's body and he was killed, and it worked so well. And you kind of almost felt like you're watching something you're not supposed to be seeing. And it was going off of word of mouth. Yes. Social media was just taking off, like it was it wasn't what it is now. For sure. Like now I don't even think you could do a campaign like this. Well, now it's like you could research it a little bit more for watching the movie, like you know, like actually doing your due diligence. But yeah, since was word of mouth, definitely all of it encompasses or plays to the part of it being you know a little bit more scarier and like terrifying. I picture now like someone would see Katie at Starbucks and like take her picture and it would go viral and be like, this is fake. Here she is right here. Ruined I know yeah back in the day like the old person that I am. It was just like unbelievable that this could actually I mean it was so believable. Because it was so unbelievable that this must be like the worst thing we've ever caught on camera. Yeah. but just I don't know. For me, Mika's performance, it was great. But with it being actual footage, I was like looking at from that perspective. Sure. If it was like, come on. You're not listening to Katie at all. my gosh. Absolutely. Okay, so that's a perfect segue. We'll get right into it. So one of the things that I think didn't age well, re-watching it for the tenth time now, was his refusal to listen to Katie at all. Right. He doesn't take her fear seriously. He almost treats her as being dramatic. Yeah. And he's not very empathetic. And he doesn't see any of this as like data of how bad the situation's getting. And it actually really poisons the relationship between them. And so I kinda wonder what you thought about his perception of her terror. Yeah, I think he almost he looked at it as a cool experience and like he became enthralled by literally like what was going on with the ghost or whatever with it. Yeah. But he was so enthralled by like what was going on or like putting powder on the ground and he and like even Katie was like don't go into the attic, don't go into the attic. Like feeding into it, like inviting it in. And he just ignores her and just like hold the camera. I'm still going regardless. Yes. Or like stop following me around with the camera. He keeps following with her with the camera. I know. So he didn't really listen to her and like it put her into that position that they ended up being in, but like inviting it in and like even the Ouija board, like inviting like she said, don't go and buy this and he went and didn't buy it. Right. Yeah. So definitely didn't care for her, care for her needs, what she wanted during that time. was just more so very selfish, you know, what he wanted and this he just became so yeah, encompassed by What it could be and like figuring out what it could be or what it's trying to say. So yeah, and I think something that really stood out to me this time too was that his response to everything is almost like to try to control it. For sure. Right? So he wants like more cameras, he provokes it more. he's so certain that he can handle the situation that that's literally the thing that gets him killed. Absolutely, yeah. And I just wonder like, what do you think about him, or even just like the type of character that responds to to a threat by trying to double down on power and control. Yeah, I feel like all of he wanted to be in control the whole time, but the one thing that Katie said towards the end was, you know, you're not in control, you haven't Anything none of the things you've done are helping. No for sure. In fact, you're like inviting it in doing exactly what you're not supposed to do. And I'm blanking on the same Dr. Fried Friday for or something like Yes, yes. So I think it was the psychic or the doctor, but when he came in the second time, he was like, I need to go. This is way worse. You need to leave, like this is way more. Get out of here. No, so I think that yeah, he just kept I don't know, the answers weren't what he wanted to hear. Yes. And he like she was like, put the camera down so then he will go around into the room with the microphone trying to like honor it and like provoke it. Yes. To again and like further piss it off and like try and it was just making matters worse. And so like his desire for wanting power and to be in control and to mend the situation in his head was making it worse because he was looking for what it was trying to say, what it was going on so he's inviting it in instead of okay, how are we going to resolve the situation and like you know, cater to Katie's needs, which were which were to leave and get out. No. But I think the doctor's also saying that Even if you leave, like it's not gonna help and this, that and the other. So but I still think he was making it worse. I agree. And it I do think they did a good job of adding that other layer of whatever that doctor I think it like a parapsychologist that came or something like that. And his feedback was that it's not the house, it's her. And so I think the part that them writing that into the story made it harder for them to leave. Like I do think that was a good plot device. And at the same time though, what I think is interesting is it kind of Clearly highlighted issues that were in that relationship because he never really seemed empathetic for her until the very end when she was basically almost like catatonic. Right, and I think it was her she was clutching the cross and was sitting like her back against the wall downstairs, and that's when he actually realized, okay, this is bad, something is wrong. and then I've had her show, I think, like the bike marks as well. That's when he was realizing, okay, this isn't good, but that. That was after he provoked her or provoked it into continuing to elevate and heighten the attacks or what the situation. Yeah, and it was almost like he had a sense of hubris, right? Like no matter what was gonna happen, he was gonna be able to handle it. It's like I don't know if he just in this story if we're meant to believe that he didn't believe it could be deadly or if he literally thought there was nothing it could do that he couldn't handle. It almost came across as just Like he half realized the magnitude of the situation but didn't really fully like grasp okay like this is serious until the end until it was too late. Right. So like that's when you kind of see the shock more so when she's actually, you know, barely like awake, barely cognizant, you know. So I think that's when he really started to grasp and realize, okay, like something is genuinely wrong. But a hundred percent. A little too late. A lot too late. how did you feel about just the Found footage gimmick. I mean, I'm sure at this time you've seen other movies like that because again it's much more common now. But just kind of what did you think about that being such a maybe fear-inducing trope for the time? Absolutely. I think it definitely made at the time I think it made the movie even like more appealing, more like better. Like it definitely would grasp audience attention and like put that instill that fear factor into you know the audience. But I think like it was kind of Looking back at it or just watching the movie from like a different perspective or lens, right? You know, like that's where I was like, okay, like that makes more a little bit more sense. But I think I don't know, I don't know this, but maybe it was like the first time that they were actually using it as like you know, the fear of like actual found footage, but now you see a lot of like those horror movies, like you know, saying actual footage or actual audio, or like putting that in like the credits and stuff too. So I think that it's kind of been overusing. I know, yeah. Because it's not really your first introduction. A hundred percent. Yeah. Right, right. But no, I definitely think that it helped like the movie, like kind of k like for pushing it from that perspective or from that agenda. Yeah, I kind of like I mean, 'cause again I have so much emotional connection to my memory of seeing it when it was new and then seeing it again now. But to me the reason I like the fountain footage aspect is because it's very slow, it builds up a lot of dread. Yeah. And And some of the scary things happen in pretty brightly lit spaces. And I like the fact that I think it's harder to predict when the next like big jump scare is gonna happen. Sure. And like especially when they were panning like at night time, like like for some of those scenes, and I don't even remember the exact nights, but there were certain nights where it was like, not that much happened. It's very slow. Okay, like covers just pulled, and that's okay. But it's terrifying as well because like you also put yourself in that situation. you know like okay w what if what if that was like me in that situation or like you know if you know like if you feel the covers move or something twitch at night or hear a door crack or well you know something happened so like again putting yourself in that space or whatever like if I were 'cause I remember when I was younger when it first came out, I think probably like middle school or something like that. Same but no, like at that time everyone thought it was so scary. I remember that. And So like it definitely was something that, I don't know, you put yourself in those shoes and in that situation. I think you said that really well. I think up until like the big moments of the movie, like the bite marks or her getting dragged out of the room obviously her killing Mika, it feels very relatable. Right. Right? Like you hear a noise in your house. Everybody's had that experience. You're wondering if it's like the air conditioning or just the house settling. your keys aren't where you thought you put them the night before. Like I like how relatable most of it is. And I wonder what you think too about so much of the movie takes place in the bedroom. Yes. Which is where like we all want to be our most comfortable, right? Like you have to sleep, you have to relax, like it's your most vulnerable place pretty much in your entire house unless you sleep in a different area, maybe like your couch. What do you think about the fact that most of the scary parts take place in the bedroom where we would see ourselves as most vulnerable in general? Yeah, 100%. I'm glad that you brought that up because that was the one thing I was like, no, I'm terrified of that. And like even select back home, like my grandparents' house, like it's older. Yes. It creaks, it craps so like when I would be like staying there sometimes and like you know hanging out of grandma's house. Like you hear, like you're laying down in the bedroom, but just hear like the the wood crevicing and like house shifting. Like that is terrifying. Agree. In an older home. So yeah, that part definitely resonated with me because like a bedroom is supposed to be like where you're like you can like actually lay down, be comfortable, relax. It's everybody's sanctuary ideally. Yeah, watch a movie in there too. Like so that's not yeah 100% like closet doors open. Like they had their Bedroom door open. Like that was I got I I can't do that. I actually had this thought. I'm so glad you said this. It's kind of like the chicken and the egg, what came first. I can never sleep with my bedroom door open. And so I was wondering when I was re-watching this, is that because of this movie, or did I already sleep with my bedroom door closed before I saw this movie? Yeah, I I have never been able to do that. Like I need the door closed, like cracked a little bit. Like, if anything, I need to hear it click. It needs to be closed. Because I need to hear it click if someone's coming in the room. For sure. Like closet door closed, everything bathroom door closed. Closed. Like I can't do that 'cause if I wake up in the middle of the night and I'm looking in there, you start seeing things. That's my biggest fear too. A hundred percent. So that was one thing that I'm not gonna say pissed me off in the movie. I'm like, why do you have the door open? You know feel unrealistic. And again I I'm trying to remember like did more of us sleep with our bedroom doors open till this movie came out and then we were so traumatized. That was a big fear of mine from the jump when I was going to so I couldn't do that. I'm like, I gotta have the door closed. I know for sure. Just to feel comfortable or like we talked about like a safe place, safe space. You know, so that part was interesting to me 'cause it's supposed to be a comfortable spot. And what did you think about I mean again like very low budget and kind of just the use of sound as part of what's so terrifying because it's so two questions. What did you think about the low budget and the use of sound as mostly the threat versus like they never built like a demon or a go we never saw the actual bad guy and I really appreciated that it relies on I think you filling in the gaps. And so I'm curious like how that landed for you. Well first I'll start with the like it kind of seems like the unknown and the unknown is scary. So you don't know what you're dealing with. You know, but with the low budget, it was just it made the movie relate more to the audience because it didn't do anything like over the top. It just seemed normal. So it definitely seemed like a normal house in San Diego. Like they didn't do anything to like it just seemed like they're normalized. Yes. And I think that also tied into the fact that you know it was real found footage. It wasn't anything that was you know a mansion or you know something that was just so over the top like I said. But no I I like that aspect to it 'cause it definit Definitely made or when you're looking at it from the perspective of when it came out, made it resonate with the audience for sure a lot more. So yeah, I mean I even love like so much of the footage for like the first thirty minutes is their mundane lives, right? Like she's washing her face, they're brushing their teeth, they're making eggs for breakfast, and I liked the sort of normalcy to set the stage for this really abnormal thing that we're starting to sense is happening before it really goes off the rails like the Ouija board bursts in the flames when they're not home. Like, yeah, maybe we need to do something different by that time. Yeah, yeah. a hundred percent. So Katie has known that something was following her or something has been wrong and she spent her whole life trying to kind of just like normalize it and live with it. So I I was curious what you thought about like we don't get a ton of backstory. Yeah. But just the idea that this is just something she's had to live with and now she's met this great guy and they're moving in together and it becomes almost like this third aspect of their relationship. Like you can't outrun it. No. No. It's just like following you around. I thought that was I don't know, I thought it was interesting and it added to it for sure, but like it tied into the whole movie because at the end it was still even with the doctor that came over, it was like you can't leave, like it's not gonna help and he knew that as well, especially when she had conveyed that to him, I think when they first had met. Right. So but I think it's like it definitely tied into the movie and like the fear factor of it because it was like regardless of where you go or what's going on, it's still gonna be right there with you. And I think even when Mika had gone into the attic and found that old picture And it was setting. Right. And it was supposed to be like this was supposed to be burnt down. Or like burn with like the house when it burned down. She was a kid, yeah. Right. So I think it was like still like you can't run from these past issues. And it was still coming back. She couldn't believe she was in disbelief that like the picture was there. And with the real footage aspect of the movie, just with like the burn marks on the picture as well. I know. It's like it had been moved from the original house to the house. To where it was and like I also liked how the key was like he brought the camera into the attic and it was like I can't really tell what that is. Like don't go in there. Don't go in there. Hubris Point, you should not go in the attic and here we go. Hundred percent, yes. With powder marks leading up to the attic stairs and you still go and Yeah, it was so interesting too because I guess the other part that didn't age as well was the inability to work together. Sure. So it's like she's giving you all this information about her life. He still thinks he knows better. They bring this doctor over who's giving his professional opinion and Mika's making fun of him, yeah. As if he knows better. And the fact that Mika and Katie they can't ever work together to attack this thing or to try to protect her again ends up being the thing that gets him killed. a hundred percent. didn't listen to her. A that was the first thing I said. He didn't listen to her at all. And even when she was like, you know, we need to call, we need to call the doctor again, we need to call, you know, a few of the people that, you know, he had given to them as resources. right, the other doctor, the technologist was like out of that was out of out of the country at the time. You know, so and they had the chance or the chances to reach out or call or try to get the help and she never did it. And then it was like, well now he's out of the country and that's even worse. So now it's like a helpless feeling like what do we do now? Right. You know? And then they were left to fend for themselves 'cause the doctor didn't want to step in or even step foot in that house. Yeah and again Even Mika's approach was just like doubling down and tripling down on okay, well now I'm gonna do the Ouija board and now I'm gonna do this. And it's like if we're not gonna get the help we need, I just kept thinking, I wish they could have worked together. I wish she could have listened. I wish she could have taken a step back. No, they were not a team. And you had mentioned a little bit ago just about like the like the sounds and like the audio effects and stuff. Yes. It was great because a lot of the time you couldn't see anything going on, like there weren't flights. slickering or anything like that from the jump, but like either like scratching or like a little thud or like, you know, I think later in the movie, like the picture frame on the wall His face was smashed. Yes. 'Cause he was provoking it, you know, to continue going. So no, that part was also I thought a good touch. Just 'cause it it played into the end though. Like what is that? we keep hearing that scratching, a thudding, even like the the visual from like the chandelier swinging was good too. Just those little subtle touches I think is actually what made it so scary because again, I'm sure you've been in a room in your life where like of you know, the light goes on and off or a Again, like something moves, and you're like, it's just the AC, or it's just like the wind. Like, we're so used to that. So, just those little like ratcheting up the tension, ratcheting up the tension. I just think it's so well done with so little effort. Like, you really start to get in your own head of how bad could this get. Right, right. And even in like, even back home for me, like in my closet, I have my shoes that sit up above. Uh-huh. And there was one day I was sitting in there and like the Shoe got knocked down and I'm like by what I turned up and it's shy by getting sitting up there where the shoe was. But see, like little things like that, you don't even know like what's going on or like just little movements or little sounds or anything like that. Yeah. You know, play into it. And I just love the idea too that you're just kind of sitting there and you're trying to figure out, well, did that move? Did that move? what did you think about the nighttime footage? How it like speeds up? And again Mundaness of just like switching from side to side while they're asleep until there's a moment where like the sheet lifts up on its own or it looks like it's touching her leg. Like I'm just curious how that all landed with you again as another plot device. For sure. I think the nighttime footage was really good. And I think they set it up for like you know, they're just sitting there and you know they show like the timestamp, but you know, the time is just rolling and rolling, and it's like the unknown again, like you're on edge, like okay. Okay, what's about to happen? Like something about to pop out, something like that. but there was one scene where Katie had gotten up out of bed and just sat there for like an hour, didn't do anything, just sat there and just staring. and I was like, my gosh. And like if I had watched the movie at first, like when it first came out, I'd have been terrified. You know, of like waking up and seeing someone just staring at you. Yes. But no, terrifying, like for her to just stand up and just kind of sit. there and then even at the end of the movie when she had gotten up and then was kinda moving around and then like pulled the sheets off and was standing on his side of the bed. that's the worst to me. And then went downstairs and started screeching. It was a screech. I don't even want to call it a screech blood curdling. Yeah. Yeah. But terrible. But even I think when that happened too, you still didn't know what was going on. Right. And to the sound effects, like you heard like her screech, her scream, and then he go Mika goes downstairs and you know, you just hear a thud. And didn't know what was going on. But then even in the dark when he was thrown up the stairs. Yes. That's what I wanted to ask you was how you felt about the ending because I think I remember thinking that all this was building up to her Being the victim in my mind, this has been following her whole life, it's tormenting her, she has the bite marks. So I remember being genuinely surprised that she kills him and absolutely terrified the moment his body comes crashing into the camera. I thought it was gonna kill him and not her, or I don't know. Well, it technically did true, it used her to be Right, used her. Yeah, but no, I didn't know what was gonna, I thought she was gonna be. killed. I thought so too back in the day. Yeah, since it's been following her around in like it sounds like she's been pushing it away, pushing it away, pushing it away. F like not failing to but choosing to not acknowledge it. But then you know, it like now being invited in is like I think like the game changer which then allowed for it to use her to kill get to him, kill him. I know it made me wonder too, like since she's lived with it her whole life I wonder what would have happened if he had just left it alone. I know. And I think like she had been f I'm not gonna say fine, but fine to an extent, like just pushing it aside, not acknowledging it, going forward, but then it's him prodding it, you know, provoking it, inviting it in. Also treating it like a joke or a game. Like a joke. And so then invited it in, and you know, obviously to his demise. And it escalated if you think about it, I don't know how old. She's supposed to be like 30 or 30 it seemed like yeah, mid-20s, thirties. And this was what two weeks, three weeks. I can't remember what night was the night that Mika dies, like night twelve or something. Yeah, something like that. I thought it went up to like night fifteen, sixteen, or maybe even eighteen. I don't even know. There's a span of time when nothing happens because it jumps from like you know, night one, night two, night three, and he has a sentence around like when they're talking, it's been kind of an uneventful week or something. So I think you're Right, I think it was two or three weeks. Yeah. So if you think about those, she's made it let's just say thirty years for even math, and then in three weeks three weeks span becomes completely possessed and kills her boyfriend. it kind of went off the rails quickly. So I'm I'm gonna blame Mika for that. No, it's for sure Mika's fault. He provoked it. But yeah, no, it was so interesting yet that she had been living with it for so long and then all of a sudden it just came to a head. Right. And really just unfolded and And unravel so quickly. Yes. But yeah, there was a couple scenes where he just started walking around the house, provoking it even more, and just like full-blown conversations with it. Yeah. He had told Katie at one point in the movie, you know, fine, whatever, go hang out with your friend upstairs. And it's like that I thought was interesting too was again how they start to turn on each other. And he even has a Somewhere around how like, hey, to be fair, you didn't tell me about this before you moved in here and you know, that's on you and you brought this with you. So I was like victimizing himself. But and blaming her. He's the one that's digging all this up and making matters worse. Correct. So yeah, it was so interesting that he played the victim. Yes. You know, when he was the one that was like trying To dig deeper, dig deeper, dig deeper. And Katie was trying to. I think they were butting heads because Katie was trying to, you know, truly prioritize her safety and well being. Yes. And he was so infatuated with what it could be, what was going on, gaining footage. He got the camera, started gaining footage on it, like microphone, trying to get it to talk, you know, thinking he found some stuff on that. You know, so it was just so interesting because they weren't, he wasn't educated. And she was, I'm not gonna say crying out for help, but pretty much pretty much, you know. Like Yeah. And I kind of felt like she was trying to educate him of like, I've lived with this for so long, like this is kind of how it's happened. This is I guess sort of what's worked. Yeah. in terms of like just keeping it manageable. And if we don't do XYZ, then hopefully it doesn't get worse. And then he would go and literally do XYZ. Just do XYZ. But she had literally said, like, please stop. making it worse. Yeah, she was like, Yeah, don't buy this. Goes and gets it but doesn't buy it. Like he's finding his way around. Yeah, you know, he didn't adhere to anything she was saying or any, you know, cry for help essentially. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, I just think it's so fascinating too, cause I mean I don't think this is like a super deep story. I just like like on its surface level it's very creepy. It creates like that sense of dread. But you could kind of imagine it as like a metaphor. Like what are Are the things that we ignore that follow us right into our present. That's true. And then what does it say about someone who has to be right versus like collaborative? Like I feel like both of those could actually go pretty deep outside of a ghost story. absolutely, absolutely. I definitely think that's something that you know we see just the constant need for certain people to want to be right. But in I mean we all have certain moments too, but you know, it makes you second guess to yourself. You know, but no, definitely. he did he prioritized wanting to be right and wanting to truly uncover something rather than actually care for his spouse or his partner. Yes. So and again, I just think it's so interesting that he seemed to never feel threatened himself right until the very end. And it again, it's like a low budget, scary old movie, but I wasn't sure how much of that was intentional. Like we're supposed to see him as sort of that maybe more. traditional macho guy where he's the protector so he couldn't also be threatened versus like the reality of hey if we're a team this is a threat to both of us. Absolutely. So what are we gonna do to try to keep it at bay or again keep the status quo if she's already been living with it and managing it on on her own. I just think it's interesting that he thought he was gonna do something that she hadn't already done and it was gonna make it better. Absolutely. I think that in this 'cause I had said selfish Yes. He I don't feel felt in danger until the end. Right. But she was in danger in his perspective as well the whole time. But he was just so infatuated and just loved, you know, tr the pursuit of finding out what it could be or what was going on around the I like the word pursuit. Yeah. So he he never cared for her because she was in danger, but he didn't care. You know, he was he it's because he wasn't in danger. That's what I think it is. It's because I think he didn't feel threatened. It made it harder for him to care that she was actively being threatened. Which is kind of fucked up. Yeah. He didn't feel threatened, so then he was just like, well it's not me, it's her problem and well she also brought this in. So she brought this on me. So you know, it's really her fault. Yes. You know, so that's when I think he wasn't adhering to her needs truly and like listening to the different boundaries that she was trying to set, like don't do this, don't do that. I know. And she even said promise me and he promised. And he promised. But that you found a loophole around it in his head, you know, so with literal dire consequences. Exactly. So he he he literally invited it in and made matters worse. So that's why I said from the jump, this is his fault. I know it was funny because I think I was definitely less empathetic to him watching it this time and maybe that's just a state of me not caring about men that can't listen to women. To their own demise as well. Right. but I think I felt less sad, like it was less of a tragedy where in the beginning you're thinking like, what a tragedy. This young man was murdered and she's missing and we have no idea what happened to them. And again, this is this horrible crime footage that we found. This time I was kinda like, Bro, you only have yourself to blame. I don't know that I feel quite as sad that you got killed by a demon. He put himself in that situation and then that hole. Because it i if you didn't invite them in or it in Right. It wouldn't have gotten to that point. So that's the way it seems, right? If she's made it this far, the only different I guess variable was they moved into the house together and he wouldn't leave it alone. Right. Right. And and yeah, he he just would always scapegoat her and just again try to play that victim. I know. As, you know, well, I'm not the one, it's not my fault, you brought this on me, but really he's the one bringing it on her by provoking it. A hundred percent, yeah. If we go kind of back to the little like deeper side of it, I was thinking about too, like you could look at it as like a metaphor for like the unresolved traumas that we carry with us from place to place. Sure. Because it makes you wonder if like as a little girl she's experiencing, I guess you would say, like this haunting. That would be terrifying. So as an adult, having to bring that into her new relationship and her adult life, like you could kind of look at it as like a darker again metaphor of like the unresolved trauma. That follows us as we grow up. For sure, for sure. And I think if you don't put certain I think sometimes certain systems or certain things into play or measure, you know, that's when you kinda see things to spiral or unfold or to be carried into other aspects of your life to transcend into other aspects of your life. But and this isn't me blaming Katie. She tried to but I think a lot of times when you bury things or dig things down, they're gonna come back up at some point or just still follow you because you're not acknowledging it or trying to you know actually resolve what's going on or like the root of the problem. So Yeah, I I was kind of like letting myself think about it in that like deeper psychological way of like what you resist, you know, kind of shows up when you don't address it. And I think in her case, it kind of made me wonder like what kept her from telling him sooner. And I wonder if she was afraid he was gonna do exactly what he ended up. Exactly what he did. Yep. Yeah. So either he was gonna break up with her or he was gonna treat it like a joke. Right, like it would fall on deaf fears, which is exactly what happened. And that could also lead to why she was just so frustrated yeah with his ac or inaction actually in action but in action in action unhelpful action right to her needs and what she needed and or just resolving the matter and resolving the situation in the best possible way which wasn't you know what he did. my gosh, no. It was literally like poking a invisible bear. Yeah right and then thinking that you're gonna have no consequences. Exactly. And it's kinda like what did you think was gonna happen? Please don't leave me, right? Stay or at least be with her. Yes. And not leave her by herself when she's the one being terrorized by this thing. She's the one that feels in danger. But again, he's so and like I don't even know if it's admi admiring it, but just so enthralled by That's good word. Wanting to pursue what it could be, where is it? You know, trying to find it, you know, instead of like actually like, are you okay? Right, you know, like making sure she's good and then trying to figure out what's best for not only her but the situation that they're in. I know. And I didn't remember this before re-watching it, but I think it's interesting. There's at least a few times when she's legitimately terrified, and he's telling her she needs to calm down. And that's the parts that I thought like didn't age as well. where I'm like, what guy maybe now that I'm saying this is gonna tell his girlfriend calm down when literally th your house is being haunted. Like you have all this evidence, even for you was your idea to record them at night. You have all this evidence of her like standing up, you have the blankets moving on their own And your reaction to her is calm down. I think calm down first of all is the worst thing you could say. To anybody who's in distress. Yeah. To your partner, to your spouse, to yeah, anyone in distress, calm down is not gonna help. Terrible. Yeah, horrible device. It reminds me when you said tone deaf a few minutes ago. I think you really nailed it. I think it was just shallow as well. Like he didn't truly care or try to seek, you know, her feelings or what like was going on or like wrong. 'Cause I think the stuff where, you know, she I think had like finally dug up some the stuff where she realized, this is something I dealt with at a young age, like this is something, you know, that's followed me, you know, th those were all things that, you know, he could have dug deeper into and actually tried to like see what was going on, different things she was feeling, and actually come up with the plan of attack for like how can we, you know, resolve this thing or actually, you know, figuring out other things. That may she may not have it even realized, but he didn't because that's not what his central focus was. It wasn't like win, yeah, right. You have to like win against this invisible force that is wreaking havoc in their lives. Right. So, yeah, no, it was it was I wouldn't say frustrating performance for Mika. Yeah, I mean I it was harder, I think, to watch it this time and see him just like ignore her and lie to her and again almost. gaslight her of like you need to calm down it's not that serious. It's like it's pretty freaking serious. No, a hundred percent. And even in just like at this age and versus like if I were to watch it at that young age, but at this age, just in my profession and everything, you know, now being in a role where I'm, you know, truly selfless and caring for others and serving others. You know, now like telling someone to calm down. That's just not you know, that's not what you do, you know. Right. Like definitely, you know, trying to dig deeper and try to f you know, pour into, you know, the men and women, the individuals that we're working with. It's just it's so interesting looking at from that perspective just because that is like the guide of what not to do. You're not wrong. It's basically a guidebook of like this is the worst way you could try to support someone you love who's going through a crisis basically. Like you just Treated it like a circus performance. A hundred percent. What can I get out of this and how far can this go? And like how crazy can it get? Because again, there couldn't possibly be anything bad on the other side. Yeah, that is what not that is how not to handle a crisis at all. A hundred percent. So I'm curious, were there any specific scenes that maybe hit you differently than you expected? Either they were scarier or they were enlightening, or just kind of like what were some of the scenes that really stood out to you? This is an underrated scene. It was when I think it was the second time that Katie had invited her friend over and they were sitting on the couch and Katie was truly distressed and Mika was just tone deaf again and had the camera and she had asked I think multiple times like can you please get that camera out of my face? And I'm blanking on Katie's friend's name, but Katie's friend was like Mika, what is your plan? Like what what are you doing? Right. And he couldn't even answer it 'cause he didn't have a plan. That wasn't his focus. His focus was you know, trying to figure out what it was and trying to like almost pursue an encounter with it, you know, and try to like see it and like actually happening in person. But I think that was really interesting. the scene where she was outside on the swing, out back and just sitting there swinging, I thought something was gonna pop up or happen or or a jump scare or something, but I think that's also the unknown that was a great part of the movie and I think also just she didn't even realize I thought she was somewhat waking up when she was in the swings. But she didn't even realize what was going on until she got back to the room. And she's like, I'm cold. Why are why am I standing here? Where you know, like, why are you have the camera? Absolutely. She was not present for any of it psychologically. I think that was another good scene and then another one scene that really caught me was well it was like the powder but well the powder and then like the Ouija board because she was furious yes with the Ouija board and like the flames like had came up and like it was like moving around and everything but you she was just so terrified and like He still brought that in and he just you know, even the smirk on his face, you know, because he knew he was in the wrong. Yes, a hundred percent. Right. And he he it didn't matter to him, it didn't care. He wanted to do what he wanted to do. Yes. Not what was best for her. And she was the one that was terrified and actually, you know, struggling with it. but with the powder as well, when they woke up and she rolled over and saw like the footprints in the powder. So scary to me. And then he followed the footsteps up to the attic. And she's begging him, like you said, please don't go, like leave it alone. And he again, deaf, fell on deaf ears. Yes. Still just wanted to do what he wanted to do. So those scenes were ones that really caught my attention. And then the chandelier, of course, which I mentioned earlier. I know. Yeah, I think that the powder one really stood out to me because on one hand, I loved again the plot device. Of now we can actually see something's going on that we can't see. So I'm a big fan of that kind of like ingenuity from a filmmaker standpoint. I think as the person watching the people, you're thinking, like, what is he doing? Right. And he's pushing and pushing and pushing, and it's like, come on. And so I think again, my memory is I kept being surprised that it wasn't her that died. Yeah. Because it's all the focus is on everything worsening for her. So I think the film almost reinforced. Enforces his like invulnerability and all the scenes where you're worried about her keep him off your radar. Right. I think also, and this is a very different perspective, but like he was the one he was part of the problem. Like he was part, he was the root of the problem as well. For sure. You know, not just the the ghost or whatever you want to call it. But the demon. Yeah, right. But he it's almost like finally. in the end he didn't listen to anything she was saying like any of the like the caution or like the worry or you know and that he was the one that ended up getting killed it you know in the end it was like the root of the problem is now gone. Yep. You know at the same time. So it was interesting to see it like unfold like that when you think about it from that lens. Yeah I mean I think in hindsight after having seen it so many times like that is the foreshadowing is that his huber Mixed with his almost like disbelief and his need for control, he has to be the one that's kind of like ultimately pays the price. Right. Because he doesn't think he can. Yeah. Or he doesn't think he will. And so I think that is kind of the point is that he's the one that has to die because he's made so light of this whole situation up until the very end. 100%. And he's bringing so much attention to it. Right. You know, inviting doctors in, like spanning the flame, basically. Right. And that is the last thing that. That it wanted. god. And basically by the time she gets bit, it's like the possession is done. It's done. So yeah, it's it's it's sad for Katie, but you know, it's definitely his fault. And the last thing that he should have been doing was bringing so much attention to it and inviting it in. And I always think it's funny in any sort of story, and I think this happens in real life all the time, where like you bring an expert in and then you don't listen to anything they have to say. Like again you just Brush it off, assume you know better. It's like what was the point? And I guess you would argue like Katie brought the expert in, so he was, you know, pretty skeptical about it, or Mika was skeptical about the expert. And at the same time, like at least he gave you some options and you did the exact opposite of every option he told you to do. The exact opposite. The exact opposite. And yeah, like I don't know Why yeah, I don't know. I think it was also pride. I think pride was a good point too for him, you know, and he felt like he could have been the one to fix everything and he was gonna be like the you know, the knight in shining armor and I think that is true too. There is that gender piece of an older movie. Yeah, and in fact he was not the knight in shining armor. You know, he was actually just making matters worse. And that's why the pride he couldn't put his pride down 'cause he never could admit that he was wrong until he actually realized that, okay, her life is in danger, like the big bite mark, the you know, she was bleeding, barely conscious. So yet he just it's almost like he ignored every red flag or caution, you know, caution. Out there and just kept going and kept going and kept going until you know it was too late. Yeah, I think pride is the perfect way to put it. Like he couldn't admit he had misstepped or maybe didn't know or didn't understand or couldn't possibly have all the answers. He had to double down, triple down, right, and basically almost turn on her to prove how not wrong he was. A hundred percent. Like to the fact that like I said earlier, he had told her, you know, go hang out with your friend upstairs. Like he You know, arguing with her over her not being heard, yeah, feeling seen, and then also just not feeling protected. You know, you want to feel protected by you know your spouse and your partner like they have your back. And that's actually the last thing that Mika was doing or had, you know. No, you're totally right. And then she killed him. The demon killed her. Right. Killed him through her. all right. Any other notes that you took or observations you had as we're winding down? Like there were a couple of things that I wrote down but like think there was like Mika had said, you know, cool, we got it on tape. And like that shows you every bit of his like not only intention, but just like where his mind was at. Yeah. Was like, you know, I wanna get it on tape, I wanna capture it. You know, this is cool. Yes. And that is the last thing that Katie even thought it was. Like she didn't think that was cool. She was terrified it's something she's dealt with and struggled with her entire life. Right. You know, and especially with her house being burned down. I know, like how unempathetic can you be this is this is maybe like missing the mark, I don't know. But with her house being burnt down and with that also being like tying with you know the issue she was struggling with, you know, with it following her around, you know, he lit the fireplace and like it was just like fire in general, like and it didn't necessarily show it from Katie but You know, fire could be like a sensitive thing for her, and again, like that's why it's like, you know, tone deaf. I'm like Yeah. That was one scene that especially on the rewatch, I didn't really understand. Like I didn't know what his motivation was to burn the cross. Yes. Because I was reading it like she reached for the cross because she's at her wits' end, you know, this is all coming to a head. And so I thought it was so odd that he would burn it. Because to me that almost seems like more dangerous if you're going in the the demonic realm to burn the cross that I thought she was grasping for protection. Yeah. Like what yeah. Like the one thing that was making her feel safe or grasping to it. I would think. That's kind of how it's depicted, right? So like he wasn't paying attention to like anything, you know, any cues. But no, those are really the big things for we touched on everything. Nice. You know, from these from this movie, but it was so interesting, you know, just the point like how we can connect it to just even like my profession and or like just where I'm at you know at this stage of my life, like you know, just the exact opposite of, you know, what I'm doing in my line of work and our line of work. You know, like it's just you know, it's just laughable almost, you know. Fair. It's just like every last thing you shouldn't do was carried out. Yeah, no, I I do think you make a really good point that seeing it at this point in time, I found his almost like obstinence to be such a turnoff and almost over the top. So I really had to keep putting my brain back in like two thousand nine or whatever year it was of we're Supposed to see them as I think that tuned in, right? Like I think it was supposed to just be like here's a snapshot of two everyday people, like you said, right in a very normal home in a very normal part of the country, just doing their thing, and this threat growing and growing, growing, and unfortunately not handling it well. Yeah, and it literally ending up in him being dead. I think it was harder to stay in that place now because I just kept thinking, like, he's awful, why is she with him? How come he doesn't listen? To her, this is gaslighting. Like it was just more like girl, leave him, even if you can't leave the demon. I know, yeah. And like he's like caught off guard when Katie's upset, like over like he's shocked. And I thought it's it's it's almost laughable. Like I said, I'm like, you're caught off guard that she's upset, but she's trying to convey all these things to you, you don't listen to it, and then once it's too late or like almost it can't. Be ignored, right? You know, then it's like a shock. Right. Caught off guard. You know, so yeah, you just totally I think missed the point of being a good partner. so you kind of talked about this a little bit, but kind of as we're wrapping up, what do you think would have landed differently if you had seen this when it was new? Ooh, definitely would have related to it more just from it like the normal sea, like it's it seems so normal like a normal home. San Diego and you know, it just seemed like just a normal couple as well. I definitely think that would have played into it. I also think like being at that age, if I had seen it when it first came out, just the fear factor of, you know, it's real footage, like that just like, you know, it's an unsettling feeling when you're going and watching it, you know, in theaters, you know, or even from home. But I think yeah, if you're watching that from home too and at night, like that's gonna be something that's terrifying. But yes. think yeah at that age it would have just been, you know, the fear factor of it being real footage. and then swept up with the rest of us. Right. You know, I think like and everyone did, like the audience did, you know, swept up into the It was very effective when it was new. Right. So I think and credit to, you know, the directors, producers, everyone that made that movie That that's definitely something that would have, you know, hit home for me. Yeah, I think it just felt so relatable. And again, like because we didn't really have any social media, it was so much in its infancy, you could go a pretty long amount of time before anyone was really gonna burst the bubble. Like it was very easy to get caught up in the lore and That's what sold it so well back then. Yeah. And I am glad that I got to be a part of that because I remember being terrified and then sort of like the okay, it is just a movie, like he's alive, she's not possessed and the world goes on. And I used to be deathly terrified of horror movies. I'm not afraid to admit that. So Hey, same. This is a new journey for me. That's why it's so fun. I used I couldn't watch it, I couldn't watch trailers, like I'd have to like dip my head away, like I couldn't watch it, like it was just terrifying 'cause 'cause it's so unsettling and freaking and if it's good and does its job, you're supposed to be scared. Right, right. But now like once I got a little bit older I was like, all right, I can watch it but you know and like there's some movies where it's like the conjuring and all those other you know movies that like really are get to you get to get still get to me but like I could still watch that kind of stuff now but yeah you know it doesn't really throw me off too much but more than fair yeah you know but I this was it was good to watch it from that perspective of okay if I were that age it's a classic you know or what the audience was thinking at that yeah at that time. It's crazy that it's closer to being twenty years old at this time like it's why they said like what two thousand six two thousand five? or something like that in like the later 2000s before 2010. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, for sure. So the early aughts. So one week from now, what image or moment from the movie do you think will live written free in your head? What's really gonna stay with you? Ooh her outside swinging. Yeah. It was like so unsettling. Unsettling it was night and just like the quiet sounds of her like swinging. That was like something that was really, you know, terrifying and caught him off guard, caught Mika off guard as well. But I'd say either that or definitely her being dragged out of the bed and down the hall. That really works. You know, but I think the there was like a really good jump that cut it was kind of at the end And where being thrown up the stairs. Yes. I think though that that those three little scenes would definitely resonate or not resonate but just kind of sit with me. They stick with you. You know, stick with me for Yeah, I mean I think for me it's still always the ending because even though I've seen it so many times like that dragged out part of her being pulled out, him going after her, the scream and then it's like silent is so long and all you can see is the darkness in the doorway and like you know something's gonna happen because the movie's over. There's only like so many minutes left in the movie. Right. And I remember like even re-watching it for this, I could just feel the tension and I was like covering my eyes, like I know it's happening, but when, when, when, when. It's it works perfectly at the end. And it's almost like the clock's running out. Like you see the movie's about to end. Like you know, so you know it's something's coming. Okay, something's about to happen, like what's about to happen, what's about to go down. But no, that that aspect too kind of gives you like that tension with that anxiety. Yes. Okay, what's on that? Yes. You know. For sure. Awesome. Well, thank you. You've now seen paranormal activity. If you get the bug, there's like a six or seven of them at this point. And the second one yeah, the second one was good. I think the third one was good and I think I fell off after that. Because it does start to get into their childhood, when she was young. And a little bit more about much it's haunted her and maybe where it came from and I thought that was actually pretty cool lore for a scary movie. So I end every episode asking if you can't answer now that's okay you can text me. But I'm trying to have people challenge me with a movie that they love that I haven't seen. So it doesn't have to be a scary one, even though we did spooky season for your episode. But what's a movie that maybe I haven't seen that you love and day we could do this episode in reverse and you could ask me all the questions. I'm gonna go off of just today's climate or like world, but I don't know. I think you may have seen this movie. Okay. Maybe we've talked about this, but Black Klansman was it's fantastic. Absolutely love it. It's a really good that's a good movie for me and just makes you think. Yeah, just makes you think and just again putting yourself into like that scene or Or just like that time frame and just irrelevant. Right. And even how you be perceived, you know. But no, that that would be a movie that I recommend to anyone to go but I don't have anything off the top of my head because you have watched so many movies before. I watch a lot of movies. Okay, well that'll be your homework. Yeah, but I'll text me, and then my goal is to do these episodes at some point. My flip the script where we're gonna have my guests come back and then you're gonna teach me about a movie that you love. So we'll be doing that in the future. I'm having so much fun doing spooky season right now. So thank you for joining us. Hopefully, you if you hadn't seen this movie, highly recommend. Recommend it if you have. It's a great rewatch. But if you are following along, please like and subscribe. Recommend get some more people on the scene interpretation pod train. you can follow along on Instagram at scene interpretation pod. You can find me at dr.sophia murphy on Instagram. episodes drop on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube. So until next time, bye. Shout out to Dr. Murphy. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming by. Thanks, guys.