Scene Interpretation: Welcome back to another episode of Scene Interpretation. I am Dr. Sophia Murphy. I'm a licensed mental health clinician here in the state of Arizona, and I am probably I'm gonna say the biggest fan of movies because I just want to pretend that I am and I like using a little hyperbole. ⁓ and I have just been having a blast hanging out with cool people, talking about cool movies. And right now we're keeping the streak alive where I get the joy of talking to someone who's just watched what I would consider a classic for the first time. ⁓ and I think we're really Rockin' and rolling so far. This is episode eight, and I have found eight amazing people who have seen what I consider eight of the best movies for the first time. So today I'm hanging out with Tracy, and I am so thrilled because we picked, I think, a banger of a movie for today. ⁓ yeah, tell everybody a little bit about yourself and we'll just kind of get into it. So my name is Tracy. I'm a physical therapist, and ⁓ I also Do a podcast so I do I do the State of Healthcare podcast, which again I've annoyed people for guests and things like that, and I thought I love movies and I should pay it forward unless you know we do work out things together. I was like, I'll just message her and see if I can do this. And then when I was going through it was kind of fun to be like, what have I not seen that would be surprising? Yes. And let's talk about it. So yeah. So that's I love it. That's where we're at. And I feel so lucky 'cause I also want to definitely promote your podcast later on too, but just to have someone who's been doing this already, but then also like kind of switching the focus to a different topic. Right. And then yeah, filling my cup and giving you the opportunity to pick your brain for a little bit. So today, drum roll, da da da da da da da da we are gonna be talking about Fight Club. ⁓ this could go so many ways. I think it stands pretty high on my list just from a storytelling perspective and what it pulled off and ⁓ you know, I think there's just so much kind of lore at this point that if you've somehow made it to this point and don't know like really what the movie's about, it's just a fun ride. Like so much happens and then we can really dive into some of the pros and cons of messaging and what it's really arguing for or against. ⁓ but I think it was made for a podcast like this where we're combining like psychological aspects with cinema and again those pros and cons of like the power of what movies are communicating. Right. So I guess kinda just to kick us off, tell me a little bit about just like your relationship to Fight Club, what you knew about it, ⁓ and just kind of what you were aware of. So here's the hard part is that when Fight Club first came out, ⁓ then it was everybody's like we don't talk about Fight Club, right? Right. And then the problem was somebody gave the ending away too. It was Rosie'd. I thought you were gonna say the big news thing that happened. no. Personally. Okay. Yeah. So someone gave the yeah, we talked about it, but yeah, and so the f and I'm like, well, why am I gonna watch this? ⁓ wow, so yeah, I know it would be ⁓ and now going back and being like as I'm it, then I think I'm watching it from a different perspective. perspective of being like looking for clues of whatever to be like wait a minute You know, but I think also if I had seen it and then been like, What? Yeah. So I think for me I like, Well, why would I watch this then? I I already have all the lines, I know how this ends. You know. But I don't know if you've ever seen the movie ⁓ So All the Boys I Love before. No. ⁓ and so or actually, yeah, it is a movie. So I ⁓ in the movie it's kinda like they're ha they're putting together this fake relationship and she has a sixteen candles reference and he doesn't get it. So she's like, We need to watch that and he's like and he makes a fight club reference. And she doesn't get it, so he's like, Foot that down too. Like, so they have to watch each other's movies to understand the references. Yeah. And he's What do you mean you know? He's We don't talk about it like Fight Club, and she's like, What? And so I was like, ⁓ yeah. So then I always just thought about it. I'm well, I already know how that plays out. Yeah. And I thought, you know what? I should watch this and see what the hype is about. Yeah, and just maybe get the full picture, even though unfortunately I'm my heart breaks to know that someone's moving. I think one of the best twists of all cinematic history. Right up there, I think a little bit like Sixth Sense. Yes. I would say that too. Like that was a a mind blowing experience to see Sixth Sense in the theater. Right. And not have any idea where this was going. And all of a you're like, ⁓ shit. ⁓ Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So I thought you were gonna reference it was like very big news. Rosie O'Donnell had her TV show at the time and she was talking on the show about how for her, I guess it was very like disturbing and she couldn't sleep, and so she was basically telling her audience not to see the movie while it was in theaters. And gave away the twist on her show. And so it's like still, you know, considered kind of one of the worst faux pas that we know in like the movie world. ⁓ that it's someone with such a big T V personality and following obviously had no social media yet, but she had a lot of viewers. Uh-huh. ⁓ she just spilled it ⁓ right. there and I think it ⁓ might have been like right after opening weekend. Like maybe maybe it was Rosie O'Donnell that ruined it for me and I just don't remember. Yeah. So luckily I didn't have that experience and I was able to see the movie and not know where it was going. Okay. And I think this is one of the few that we've talked about so far. I didn't see it right away, not because it was made before I was born or not because I was too little, but just because I didn't think I would care about a movie about men who want to be in a fight club. Right. And I think part of the reason was because of how it was marketed. Yeah. And I remember when I was doing some research too, like this was really cross marketed with a lot of like WWE, UFC at the time, things that, you know, no offense to anybody but I don't care about. Yeah. And so it was just like, why do I want to watch guys beat each other up? Yeah. And so luckily I hadn't had the end spoiled so by the time I saw it probably in my twenties ⁓ when I was really kind of on my own you know, becoming a therapist journey, like learning about psychology. I just loved it for the pure ride. Yeah. Of like what a concept of this man's like psyche being split to try to find his identity in kind of the parts of the culture I was already pretty critical of. So like that's where I think there's a this interesting like love criticism relationship of the dialogue and the writing and everything just because I don't know really w what it stands for. Uhhuh but it makes some interesting arguments. Right. But I also have to say, like, watching it now is interesting for me. ⁓ this is probably gonna come out anti-patriarchal, and so I'm just gonna make statements. But in in a world now where we're confronting so much of men's loneliness, whatever crisis, right? And it's not that I'm unsympathetic, like again, I what I but again in so much of the men loneliness crisis and so much of the flashback and just all the things, and it's also interesting in a world we live now that this movie also has a anti-consumerism. Yes. And now we live in a world where we are surrounded by just billionaires and it's product stuff and the average person can't pay for things. Yes. And this message about we're not our stuff and like this and that. So I feel like the messages still apply. ⁓ for sure. And then I just and so again as I was watching it I was also being really s I was I was probably not as nice to the men. I was like look at these men just falling in line and just looking for someone to boss their ass around. You know? And so And then I'm like, this is how we solve the crisis. We just put ⁓ all together and let ⁓ train and they don't need us, you know. They just take care of each other. Yeah, 'cause the interesting part was there was a comment in there when They were like, I think it was Brad Pitt's character made a comment about like, Well, we were raised by women, so maybe we don't need any more women in our lives. And I was like, ⁓ you know, and I've definitely seen sentiments like that now. Yes. And so I'm like, Well, fine, just leave us alone, you know, like go in your fight club, beat each other up. I know. We're not gonna miss you as much as you think we might miss you. Yeah. So again, I think the problem now is I'm watching it with the skeptical eye of things. Yeah. But we're in a very interesting time. and space culturally. So I I think there's a lot of validity to that. And I think maybe how I've made ⁓ my own sense of the movie, which doesn't make me right, is I think it's a really interesting two sided coin. Of The criticisms of consumerism and capitalism are the parts I love the most. ⁓ Really? And so I think, you know, Ed Norton's character, I think we refer to him as like the narrator 'cause they're the same people. But the two sides of him, right? Is really struggling with this hollowness of I've accumulated all these things, like I've reached this certain point, I have a good life, I make money, I have the entire IKEA catalogue in my house and I I feel nothing. Right. And that part to me I think is incredibly applicable today. Right. He got the American dream. Exactly. And where did it get him? He's miserable, right? And not well, clearly, mentally well. And that part I think is almost ageless, and if anything, has escalated. Right. Because now it's not a tangible IKEA magazine. Yeah. It's social media, it's every streaming service, it's every ad that's just like pushed down your throat over and over again. To me the consumerism has only gone up. Yes. And the sort of mental health cost of that has only gone up. So that part I really love. Now, this idea that the only way that the men can cope is to go to their like primal violent instinct, is where I think it it falls apart for me to an extent. Like I get the idea that at least violence helps them feel something. ⁓ huh. And I can almost drive with that. I think there is this piece of like people want to put themselves in dangerous situations or take risks. Exactly. So just have something to grasp onto. The other part, I guess it's more like an Oreo, not two sides of a coin. The the other side though that I think redeems it is it's a cautionary tale of how easily people fall in line and a movement Really, maybe designed to give you purpose and connection, yeah, warps into something really twisted and becomes dangerous. And like you said, like they're just robots. Yeah. Like even you know, the narrator can't pull it back. Yeah. And so that's the sandwich of it, I think, that I really love. It's the middle that's a little ⁓ to me. Right. But I do think we're seeing this ramification of like you could argue if I'm being generous, social media was designed to maybe give us some connection to like again help us. In a certain way, and now we've created this monster where people are just like mindlessly scrolling and consuming, yeah, and believing and not even questioning. And also feeling bad about themselves constantly, because there's the comparison, yeah, the having to keep up. It's a lot of like constant on you, right? Absolutely. And so I feel like for people that they it just kind feeds you in a loop of feeling bad, yes, and being like, Well, I need to do this, I need to have this, and so it keeps you there. Right. I totally agree with you. you if I buy this thing then I don't feel the feelings and then I'll be better. Right. But really we just know we're numbing or masking the problem in less than ideal ways. Right. And that was kind you know, and there was one funny line when they were on the bus together and there was like a picture of a Calvin Klein model and Brad Pitt's like, you think that's manly, that's how you stay in shape. But then you see his physique and I'm like, Yes, really, sir. Right. Really? You know, look just like that. Yeah. So what are you supposed to take from? I mean, this is prime Brad Pitt time, right? Like him is and again, I gotta give Ed Norton his moment. He I finally like later he was smiling morbid, right? But like it was just funny that they were almost the embodiment of what they were mocking. Yes. And that's why I I try to give it some grace that that was probably intentional and again maybe a little highbrow. Yeah. and when again you think about like does the average person watching this take it as like a a recipe and dogma? Right. Or do they take it as like something they want to break apart and look at all the pieces and fine tooth comb it? Right. And that's I think the danger sometimes of making content like this is y you cannot control how it's gonna be interpreted. I think ideally your point is the point. Right. Is like we're presenting this but really we're making fun of it. Right. Yeah. Brad Pitt's got no short. And he looks just like the Calvin Klein model. He probably looked better than the Calvin Klein you know, but he's like, That's not manly and I'm like, Whoa You know, so I guess on some level it was it's interesting to me 'cause I feel like every man loves Fight Club or whatever. But then I'm like, are you just embracing it 'cause it's that you know, what reason are they in love with this movie? I think that's the key question. Yeah. So you kinda tied right into one of the things I was gonna ask, which is both that the film has been kind of widely over the years now, both celebrated as a masterpiece and criticized for glorifying the exact things it's satirizing. So I'm just c curious now that you've watched it, like where do you think you landed and how well do you think the movie maybe made a distinction? You know, I have to say like I I spent a lot of the movie kind of like annoyed at Edward Norton. Sure. But I could feel his thing, right? Like so I love what I do for a living. Yeah. And I know that I'm there's times I'm burnt out and there's But I understand how a lot of people are in like the you're in the corporate, you sit in the thing, you buy the things, you get in the wheelhouse, right? And again, I my life isn't perfect. But I I do get up and have joy about what I get to do. Yeah. Whereas, you know, and I spent a lot of and it felt like it was like at first I felt it like it was like that movie office space gone wrong, right? Like instead of him just being like, I'm gonna chill out with my friends and not go to work, he's like, I'm gonna turn this into toxic masculinity. A hundred percent. But again, I I what I was also examining was his whole thing with his parent parental relations. Like he didn't have a positive father figure role. Right. He's like my dad didn't want me, Tyler didn't want me, you know, like so he keeps seeing that and I think he's trying to create what he visions as this perfect man. Yeah. So I felt like it was sort of a criticism, right? Because even with these, you know, they show this men, they glorify this fighting, it gives him a purpose, but then it just starts to go very dark very quick. Right. Right. And so So I feel like if people watched it, and again everyone can interpret a movie how they want. Right. Yeah. And that's their right, right? But I felt like it showed then it just started to because even when he found this moment to be alive, he still wasn't happy. Correct. He was still ended up in the same place. Yeah, he was still constantly insecure about his relationship with Tyler. Yeah. He was still insecure about all the things. You know, and he'd kind of felt happy living in his little shithole doing his fight club thing, but then there was constant Insecurity, constant like so he never really until kind of the moment at the end where he like can find peace. Right. And then I did a deep dive into like the novel that it was based on. Yeah, which I've still never read and it's been on my radar forever. And the novel ends differently than the movie. Really? Okay. In the novel he actually ends up in a psych ward. So he's in the he it's like he visions that this happens but he's actually in the psych ward being visited by members of the Project Mayhem and then That's interesting. And then then there was a pair this is why I went nerd out style about it. ⁓ I love it. This is my favorite. There was a comic book release that was like a sequel. I didn't know that either. Now I want to get my hands on that. To fight it's it's like Fight Club Two, but it's told from Tyler's perspective. Fascinating. So and it's like him trying to ⁓ like ⁓ an Edward Norton's character is living somewhere else with Marla or wherever and they and he it's Tyler trying to get back into his life. Interest and take back over and he goes by s like the ⁓ Edward Norton goes by Sebastian now. So it's kind of told that way. So in my head with this I feel like I feel like they nailed it in the fact that like, yes, people are unhappy and you're trying to find a thing. Even if it's like what Twilight where Bella would put herself in this dangerous situation for advertising you know, just to feel something. Yes. But then it show ⁓ that what he picked was a destructive method. So ultimately I feel like the message of the toxic masculinity. Yeah. It also it showed that both systems weren't working. There needed to be something. We didn't need to be this ultra just follow the rules consumerism. Agreed. But to do the we don't listen to any because even this message that Brad Pitt's character gave, where he's like, you need to let go, you need to do this, but all that channeled into was wanting to control people. Well yeah, it basically just made them his followers blindly. Yeah. Yeah. And so he kept wanting Ed Nortman to just let go. Right. And but I'm like, you just want it it just wanted all these followers, right? They just had to submit. And I'm like, that's not an answer either. Like Right. Well and I I think your point is really key though, i at least in my mind is when we don't understand our distress or our malaise or our kind of longings, then we're grasping. Right. And I think you could make an argument that the toxic masculinity part is like the symptom of the issue as opposed to the issue itself. Right. So because men aren't taught many options, it's either this like conformity or this like hyper masculinity that spoiler alert ends up being conformity again. Yeah. It's still a prison. It's just a different prison. Yeah. So I like to look at it as like I think they actually did a pretty good job satirizing it. But I think you have to want to ask those questions to pick up on the satire. Right. To pick up on the criticism. Otherwise people just look at it as like a blueprint for, ⁓ this is the answer to my problems, is I just turn into the other extreme. Men need to be men. And I I think that's what we're seeing on a larger cultural level. too is like I try to balance both sides of that because a lot of my work is with men. Right. And I never planned to work in spaces where I only worked with men. And most of my caseload is men now. And I have fallen in love with it because I see the gaps and what they've been given as options. Right. And I see the prison of I have to either be this or that and I have no other choices. I'm either a pussy or I'm a badass. Right. It's like okay. And what else could we create? to give you actual autonomy and a sense of self efficacy and self esteem and like the full range of being a human. Right. Not these just two different prisons. Right. And so I think maybe it also lands different for me now because I wanna give them some sort of perspective of like conformism isn't the better option when it's just a different form of conformity. Right. Like you're allowed to pick whatever is gonna actually make you happy and be that person without this like reemergence of this toxic masculine shell that like we're back at this like influencer level, it just ⁓ it makes my skin crawl. Well it was interesting to me the part where it like also was weird that I was like Jared Leto made Meatloaf, what? Is this a movie? You know, and then when like Meatloaf's character gets killed and they drag him in and they're We don't have names in Project Mayhem. Right. But then he's no, this is just human, right? We have to remember. And then they're like chanting that. And he's like, No, you know, like, and just how much they had just like given up. Yes. So I feel like as humans, we all want a sense of belonging. Absolutely. We need a community. Yes. But I feel like women have found maybe more positive areas. And again, I'm probably just judging because I was coming in with my skeptical eye. But I also feel like for men there are less. less yeah, options. I agree. I think that is the consequence of them being given only sort of like two ways to exist. Right. They either have to be like the kind of loser guy who is looked down on or too nice or nice guys finish last. ⁓ they're kind of a pushover or they're that like hyper aggressive, toxic masculinity guy. And I I think that is the exact point is that like either one is is not the only option. Right. I I don't think they're socialized and raised to believe there are other pathways where I do think, I mean, even though trust me, women are pretty low on the totem pole, yeah. We are socialized to at least lean on each other and get that support and that to be okay. So it's a little easier to create those spaces and to create again like movements of, hey, we're more than just this word or we're more than just this role. And I think men have not had that opportunity and they're so behind in that. And I'd like to think that there's a little bit of that happening now. And not to like put it all on me and I'm blessed to be in spaces where I think there are those dialogues. Yeah. And there are those conversations of like, you know, you're a person too. Right. You're more than just this one identity that you were told was your only choice. Well, and I do feel like the Barbie movie tried to give that message. Yes. But I think the problem was is people were still like, it's anti-patriarchy. Right. You know, whereas I feel like I loved that movie. I love Ryan Gosling's performance. Do I think that maybe Margot Robbie should have gotten more credit too? Yes. Of course. But I there's our point right there. Right. Yeah. Once again, but do I think That the message was that one society or the other favoring hurt both. Yes, 100%. That's a great comparison. Each find their own thing. Yeah. Right. And so that's what I love that it wasn't like Ken was just there to serve Barbie or Barbie was there to serve Ken. They just needed their own pathway. And yes. And I'm just like, my cylinders are firing now. I love that you brought Barbie into this conversation because I I do think one of the key takeaways from that was that coming from the like hyper matriarchal. Barbie world into the real world, Barbie crumbles, and Kim thrives until he doesn't. Yes. Like suddenly he feels powerful and important and special in a toxic way. Yes. That when he finally has to confront it, they both have such a beautiful conversation around how she really wasn't treating him well either. Right. And his reaction to that wasn't better. Yeah. There had to be another option. And so I don't think I would have ever thought to cross-reference my club with Barbie. I really think you nailed it. That's like really powerful to me. Well, and it's interesting because as much as I feel like women, I mean, to be honest, I think part of the thing I realized what I've been doing when I talk about my podcast is there's so little research on women, right? And so just from a healthcare perspective, right? You know, someone just sent me something before I got here that a lot of menopause research have been done on men, and I'm Yep, the fuck. Makes no sense. Yeah, and so I'm I'm like, really? So as much as I'm like, I would like them to just get a taste back of what it's like, sure. That doesn't ultimately help anything either. Agreed. You know? Yeah. Do I want the things fixed for us? Would I like better research for actually dealing with women's issues? Absolutely. Yes. But I know that if I'm like at the expense of men being told, you know, tortured this way, I'm just creating a toxic environment the other way. Or overcorrecting. And I don't know if you're a fan of Brene Brown at all. Yeah. ⁓ I'm a huge fan. I talk about her in sessions all the time and I teach about her to my own supervisees and clinicians. But in one of her famous TED talks where she's talking about how famous she was getting. Right. And she was doing all these book signings and she had really like made a name for herself and she's, you know, at a book event and signing and signing, and this man comes up and basically says, I think it's interesting ⁓ that you don't talk about men. And she says something to the effect of like, Why don't study men? And he says to her, That's convenient. ⁓ And she talks about how that was such a light bulb for her that even in her own research, in her attempt I think, to even the playing field, she was doing all her research on women and writing about women. Right. Any of the consequences of the exact same system on men. Right. And his comments to her were like, You tell us to you know, you're preaching vulnerability and you're preaching connection, and he said, The books that you signed were for my like three daughters and my wife, and they would rather I die on my horse than ever see me fall off. So how am I supposed to use any of the things you're preaching when you haven't ever thought about how it would apply to people like me? And I think about that a lot to your exact point that like as we try to write the ship. And address patriarchy and the very, very real tangible consequences to people socialized as women, how do we not then just create the monster in the other direction? And I think that's such a good thing to think about. Have you ever read the book? It's called The Power. No. ⁓ so not giving away all the things. It was an Amazon series for a little bit, but essentially women at puberty start developing the ability to use electrical energy. ⁓ interesting. So then they start and then they can activate this gland in older women. So the power starts to shift because women can essentially just electrocute the shit out of you if they want to, right? And so it's told in this like weird historical perspective where it's like, can you b ever believe there was a time when men were in charge? And now it's it's a very much like it shows the evolution into a macr matriarchal society. Right. Because women hold all the power. But as they start to go, they become just as awful as the system they were fighting against. And to me I think that's where we can give this movie some credit is I I do think it was attempting that same argument. ⁓ and maybe not even attempting is fair. I think that was the argument it was making. Right. And it's not hard for again like a lonely group of men to see this movie and misinterpret it as again like this is what solution is the sort of anarchy fascist other extreme as if we haven't just now recreated the problem. Right, because you see how it was at red pillow men and all the things. That's happening now. The angry men online because again they don't have that guidance. Right. They aren't shown a different way. Yep. And it isn't working really for any of us. So we grasp at straws of like what the next option would be. Right. ⁓ this is great. I love it. let's see, where do I want to go? We just got into so much. No, I'm sorry, it took us on a belly time. Don't apologize. I love this. ⁓ So kind of in the space, after watching this, did anything shift for you and how you think about the relationship between masculinity, pain, and the need to feel something? You know, at first I was I when I first watched it because I was being skeptical of like why do men just have to fight each other to feel manly. Right. But again, I think sometimes people like we talked about, need to feel something. Yep. ⁓ there's like a I there's it's ironically a song with Aberlean where it's anything it's called like anything but ordinary and and she's like there's lines in there where I just need to feel alive. Yeah. And so for me with this, I just watching it, I was thinking they that they were embracing that stereotype that men have to fight each other and they have to be brutal and they have to get that and they just have to feel you know and I just and even the scene where he's like confronting his boss trying to get the paychecks when he just punching the shit out of him so upsetting, yeah. Right? And I was like and I'm thinking to myself, I don't know if I could do that. ⁓ you could not do that. And I was like, you know, but again, I I'm also at this point not in a crisis where I need to feel something, right? So I was like, what? ⁓ so I guess on a level I feel like I I think they took that but I like we kinda talked about that they took that stereotype and they showed like this is I think if you look at it, this is what men think they need. Right. But it just creates a worse world in the long run. Agreed. And I was thinking about it too from the lens of because men are socialized with such a narrow set of choices, not just an identity but also an experience. So I think a lot about like it's it's a stereotype and it comes out for a reason, which is like men are really only allowed to be angry or neutral. Right. And I even have like the feelings wheel pillow that I use in all my sessions and we know like there's more feelings than you can even fit on a pillow. But if you're socialized to think you're allowed to have one Right. What does that do to your range of experience as a human being? Yeah. And so I think a lot About like if anger's the only feeling you've been taught is valid, then violence is the perfect execution to feel anything. Yeah. Because instead of having thousands of emotional experiences, I basically have to just be like here or I'm full of rage. Right. And so it's like it's almost setting them up for failure again. Like it's the easiest pathway to the one way I've been told I'm allowed to be emotional. Well, and it's always interesting too, because I think we also approach people like if they're yes ⁓ being weird with you, you automatically assume they're angry at you. Right. But maybe they've had a shitty day. Correct. Maybe they're disappointed in you. Maybe they are sad. Maybe but we'll always and I I realize I do that to myself if someone's doing a thing I'm like, Are you ⁓ are you mad at Right. Right? Exactly. And I'm like, I don't realize that I don't give grace to people. Yeah. You know, the irony being as like I approach perimenopause is that I'm like, I'm I feel like I'm either like neutral or rage monster. So I was like, shit, you know, this is where I'm at. But again I do think that 'cause again it was like either Edward Norton felt nothing. Right. And he just went on. Even as he's seeing all these terrible things in his job, right? He had to confront that people were being like burned alive. he's like helping sweep it under the carpet. Yep, and doing his little just like paperwork assessment to like make his decisions for payout. Using like a freaking formula determining things about people's lives. Absolutely. And so he's probably storing all these horrors, right? And he's thinking he's doing all of the stuff he's supposed to do. Yeah. And you know, and he's literally just and it it's interesting that his first attempt was to go to support groups, right? To feel something. Yes. To have a connection with others. humans. Yeah. He had to fake a disease to go to a place where then he could find a pseudo form of connection and allow himself to cry. Right. Seeing other people's pain and trauma and then sleep for the first time in like six months. Right. Like what kind of commentary is that on a man's range of options? Right. Well and then it was just interesting that they tried to feed it in that the men actually felt better than when they were like beating each other up and all that stuff. Yes. ⁓ and then it's also interesting that Helena bottom Carter's character, her being in the support group ruined it for him. Yep. That like that was his thing, right? Correct. Yeah. And so, and again, it was all these dysfunctional ways for him to figure, try to find something, find a purpose, find a, you know, while he was battling essentially mental illness. Literally. Just trying to survive, but not being able to address any of the things that were really going on. Did you ever see the movie Joker? Yes. Okay, just from a mental illness. So dark. So it reminded me a little bit of that movie because especially half the time I'm like, is Helena Bottom Carter or like an actual character? Sure. Like, is she a figment of imagination? Yeah. Where, like, because even in the Joker movie, like he kind of imagined that that girl was his girlfriend. And for a while. Yeah. And for a lot, like in that, I also felt like there was this failure of this guy with his mental illness. Right. And so you know turning into a fascist anarchist leader, right? Yeah. And people just almost by accident. Anything he wants them to do because they're also feeling disenfranchised or left behind or insert word. And to be honest, as terrible as it sounds watching the Joker movie, he didn't really kill a lot of people in that him like and and you know, and I'm like, Well, Robert De Niro was kind of annoying, you know. So I was like, you know, he didn't kill the one guy because he just was like, you know, you were always kind to me and he left him. Yes, he just leaves him after scaring. Yeah, yeah. And so I was like, to be honest, you know, like he's not handling it too Terrible. What's those weird shades of grey because even in this story, Tyler, narrator, he doesn't really kill anybody. He sets up the scenarios to have these again foot soldiers do these horrible things by blowing up all these buildings and some people I'm sure were injured and killed. Right. Well, and even when he pulled a gun on that one ⁓ kid or whatever. It was to send him back to school. So you see where he had all the li like the driver's license and the stuff. So it almost felt like in his mind he was doing some good for the world. Right? I do think that's part of the argument. Yeah. Is that how quickly it escalated to again mayhem being kind of code word for fascism. Right. Where it's like maybe somewhere in there there was a kernel of a purpose that just got swept away by again unprocessed trauma and rage. Disenfranchisement and again feeling left behind or feeling unseen, that the only other option was chaos. Right. Well, and if you look at it, because it's essentially it was Edward Norton's character doing this. Of course. Right? Is that he probably was trying to free himself, so he probably thought he was helping other people. I do think that's part of the argument of the story. Yeah. And then he realized too late that he had just created a almost worse system. ⁓ absolutely. Even when he's Trying like call the police. Yeah. And the police you're like, Yes, sir, yes, sir. Like Project Mayhem. Like it's just like a code word now. And he's like, No, I'm trying to stop this. And it's unstoppable at this point. Once he's even sort of you could say, brought his two identities back together. Right. And he's able to recognize how basically he has been blacking out to cope. Yeah. He can't put the brakes on because what he's created is too big. Right. And it's no longer his goal. Right. Also interesting how many other lost people he's found in this process. Absolutely. They're just willing to come along. Right. Yeah, and so kind of at the end not at kind of at the end, I mean basically he's confronting having to kill himself to try to also kill Tyler. Right. To stop all this. So he's willing to destroy himself completely at the end. and I so it's kind of thinking about this idea of like having to burn something down before you can start over with your eyes open. And I kinda wonder what you think about that idea or concept. Well, I feel like they tried to do that with him and then what was happening in the outside world, right? Yeah. Literally like watching all the bombs go off. All the bombs go off because he can't stop it now. Right. And they're just holding hands and he's just watching and like what's supposed to be a reset of consumerism. Right. Right. So that was their his their whole message. Yeah. And there was like a Starbucks cup theme throughout the movie, you know, and like the you know, the ultimate thing of capitalism, right? They may have had well had an Amazon or like an Apple. If you could do it now, right? Everyone have an iPhone. Yeah, just something in there. But literally it's like him having like him shooting himself to like as the world is burning around him. Yep. And I guess we're supposed to take it as he destroys Tyler. Right. And now is really himself with his full awareness of what's happening. For whatever's gonna come next. Like he's present now. Yeah, and it's also interesting just we we talked a little bit about Joker and then you look at like the Heath Ledger Joker. Yeah. But they're like some people are just here watch the world burn. Right. You know, but in in this case I feel like this character was actually trying to help. I do think it started from a place of a solution and just kind of morphed. Yeah. ⁓ which was one of my next questions. So Project Mayhem we could argue maybe started as like individual awakening. Yeah. And morphs into group think almost instantly. Yes. And so at what point do you think a liberation movement stops being about freedom and actually becomes about control? ⁓ to be honest, I feel like it's stopped right away. Yeah. Like as soon you know, those people just waiting outside to get in when they basically sh I think for them as as soon as they shave their head, yeah. Nothing okay, again, it's nothing against people who serve in the military. I respect, I appreciate the freedoms that that has bought me. Sure. And you expect people in the military to have to just follow orders, but it's that almost that symbolic thing of like the head shaving that. Happens when you go into like basic training. Yep. It felt like the first guy when they finally got like they broke him. Yes. And then he shapes his head. I was like, ⁓ shit. You know, even when I was watching the movie, I'm like, this shit is on, you know, like, and then there's the next couple guys waiting outside to do the same thing. So I feel like it's not so much about saving that person because you just took their individuality. Well, I think you really nailed it because you can also criticize any sort of military structure. When it creates a system that people can no longer speak up and have to fall in line. I mean, i.e. Nazis. Yeah. I mean, like, we've seen the ramification of that same group think and mindset of just like you become part of this larger thing that you lose yourself and could end up doing something absolutely terrible. ⁓ and that happens all the time. Look at how gang culture works, right? Like most people who enter into a gang are searching for connection, community to be seen, right and very quickly becomes dangerous. And again, if you can't be a person anymore or speak up because you have this like ultimate hierarchy of control and it's the the gang or the group over everything. Right. You're probably gonna do some really fucked up things. And blame it on that. Absolutely. Or just not even blame it on anything because it's just the way we operate. You don't even think about the consequences exactly. Yeah. Well and I was just thinking about that even for like people who've gone into like cults or things like that. Yeah. Because I had one friend that we were talking about something and she was talking about this group and then she started using the we instead of I. Yeah. And I was like, ⁓ shit. Uh-huh. You know, and I was like, that's a dangerous slope right there. Yep. You lost your individuality. Absolutely. And so I feel like as soon as that happens. Yeah. So the hard part is is you weigh that with like a military thing, right? Sure soldiers to follow orders. But where you see all those tragedies happen is when nobody questions. Exactly. You know, like why are we doing this? Exactly. Why are we killing these? Are we allowed to question anymore? Yeah. Or will I actually be exiled or in trouble if I'm the one that's trying to go against the larger group. And that is my issue with military things. I do feel like someone you should be you know. Absolutely. And again, current times we're seeing a lot of things that from the outside we're questioning and it just seems like you either have to be for it or against it. Yeah. There couldn't possibly be any other shades of grey in there. Right. And that's that's very dangerous. Right. And that's unfortunately why we can't have discussions. Right. Right. We've lost a lot of that it's like us versus them or you versus me. ⁓ Yeah, and we just we just miss so much. Right. So I guess going back to some of like your impressions, walk me back into the moment. I guess you knew this going into it, but when you really saw it play out that you learned that Tyler wasn't who you thought he was. Right. you feel what did you notice? What was it like to maybe even see it come alive on screen 'cause you knew conceptually just like what came up for you. ⁓ you know, and I think probably because I knew I did start to watch the movie to see if there was those moments. Like was there moments when it's like mostly Edward Norton sees but or is it like is it are them separate or whatever, you know, so I think I was trying to watch for if there would have been clues. Sure. You know, but then when it's I think for me it was more just watching his realization. Yeah. You know, versus like Your own. Yeah. Because I was like, I think for me that was what it was of his moment of like, ⁓ crap. Yeah. You know, I've I have created this. Right. This is me. Right. Right. Like really having to confront himself and what he has been capable of. But he's also been chasing himself through the whole movie. Yeah. Wanting acceptance. Yes. And from himself. Yep. A hundred percent. And I also found it interesting, he found that book in the beginning where he was like Jack's liver. Jack's duodenum, whatever. And he would say it occasionally throughout the movie, like Jack's broken heart, Jack's whatever. Yeah. And so I feel like Edward Norton always just felt like never felt whole. He always felt like a part. Yes. And then he was always chasing self-acceptance. Yeah. And I think that makes total sense. And again, it's that whole thing if we learn to love ourselves and yada yada yada. But like again, it's not a downplay of that. But again, I think because he couldn't accept himself, he could Created this persona. ⁓ for sure. What he wanted to be. Absolutely. And even that persona rejected him. Yes. Which is interesting. Well, I guess we're it gets really trippy too if we're thinking about it like he builds up this say part of himself to be larger than life and its own person. Right. And then when he finally has to confront it, I don't know that he likes what he sees. Yeah. Right? And so there is this sort of like meta-psychological part of like once I actually confront. confront this other part of myself, do I want to keep it or do I need to destroy it? Right. 'Cause it's destroying me. Right. In the long run. And it's also he's watching what it has created. Yes. He thought he was making a thing better. Right. Because he's made this powerful man essentially. And you know, now and then Yeah. And then you have to be like, that's I don't want this. I need to get rid of this to be better. Because really I've like lost my myself in the process of this creation right that I thought was gonna answer all my problems and now I have very different new problems. Right. And I find it so interesting. Like he blew up his own apartment, like or his own thing and all of his stuff. Right. So he did make these big statements. Yes. Right. Yeah. You know, where he was smart. It's so cre interesting that he set the stage, right? He put the thing in his own lock, yeah the oven like and then went on a trip. Yeah. To come back and his craft had blown up and you know and again And he's just kind of like whoops, how did that happen? Yeah. And has like locked that away that he didn't remember doing it. Right. And also without consequence of what that could have done to other people. Well that's why I think it's interesting too, is like there is that line throughout fine line that we're kind of screwing throughout the whole movie is again, I don't know how many people are killed. Yeah. We're not really talking about that. I mean, obviously meatloaf, but I think specifically from the narrator Tyler Durden's actions. Yeah. Because even with the explosions at the end, it's just the end. Right. And I'm a assuming we're supposed to think that because it's like late night, early morning. These buildings are mostly abandoned and it's more like a statement. Uh-huh. It kinda reminds me like these are my biggest criticisms about Marvel is like if you're fighting and blowing up buildings Like debris is falling and like I just don't know that there were no innocent bystanders killed when he blew up his apartment or when they blew up all the buildings in the financial district. They have not important to the story. Well they had a whole T V show that she used to show the people who had to clean up all the shit and like find you know what I mean? Like I had to do that. But yeah, and again I think it was they were trying to make the point, right? Of like they were just trying to blow up this ball that would roll into this thing. Right, you know, nobody was supposed to get hurt when like Meatloaf got shot. Right. And he's You're literally wearing ski masks at night, like doing terrible things. Right. Why are you thinking of it? So I think it was trying to minimize the collateral damage, but you knew there were gonna be a cloud. Whether it's someone like cleaning the offices, that's what I think security. Yeah. Like if there's security at the front desk and the whole building collapses on them, like I just you can't imagine there's no loss. Well, and in the book when I read about the difference of the ending, ⁓ right. The the building Supposed to collapse the way he had planned Tyler had planned it. Yeah, is it was supposed to collapse over a library, which is interesting that he would take out a library and he was supposed to die in it as some type of martyr statement. Fascinating. And she actually really want to read the book. Yeah. So I was like, okay, you know, very interesting difference that didn't went that way. Yeah, it didn't happen that way. So I just thought I was like, ⁓ okay. Yeah. So how did you feel when it all wrapped up? Like, were you noticing that you felt maybe a exhilarated or sympathetic or implicated or even just like really unsettled. ⁓ you know, and again I have to say I had to pause the movie during parts, not to maybe the extent of Rosie O'Donnell necessarily, but sometimes I was like, ⁓ icky. Yeah. You know, there were icky feelings. Sure. Through this. So when it got done I kind of was like, Huh. You know, 'cause again I knew he would figure out he was Tyler. Right. But I didn't know how then it was gonna end after that. Sure. When it wrapped up I was like, did this Just give us like a happy ending, you know what I mean? What do we make of this kind of Holding hands with Helen Baumakar, and they're like everything, you know, and it could be like almost like they try to do a fake romance movie, you know what I mean? Where it ends in fireworks and shit. You're holding hands, I'm like and his face is like hanging off because he just shot his And he's like, I'm okay. I'm like, you're not okay. You need a lot of help. Absolutely. Right? And that's my thing was as I was finishing, I was like, those two characters are clearly very destructive and attention so are they actually going to get help or just continue this destructive back and forth relationship? I think that's a good point too. I don't know that I've ever sat and thought of as much about like what happens next. I guess the way I I made sense of it was that I I think it subverted, at least for the time, some expectations of like where it was gonna go. Right. Right. Because the chaos was building, the chaos was building, we get this giant reveal. Right. She tries to stop the train that it's already too far down the tracks. And so the only way to stop it is to at least end Tyler, even though we can't end the consequences of what Tyler, the narrator, had already set into place. So to me I think I was probably always leaning more into that satire of like he got himself back. Right. The ramifications we don't we can't even comprehend what they're going to be yet. Right. So for me when it ended, I was like, okay, but like there's still really ⁓ I mean, I felt a little sense of peace of like, okay, he got rid of that part, but you're still pretty messed up. Like a thousand percent. Are you gonna actually do something about this? You know, or yeah, that's a great question. Or are you gonna find some other way to and it was also interesting, like Helen Obama cartered, like I love her as an actress, just as a side note, and I totally again, this was one of those. Movies where like, I forgot all these people were in this. So many people stacked. Yeah, and I was I forgot, she's such a great actress. Absolutely. And then I forget, but I was ⁓ my gosh, but her character, like how much like she missed when he wasn't at the groups, like almost part of her thing was that antagonism, yeah, with him, yes, but also that like weird attraction. Yes, and I think I I interpreted it a little bit like they saw similarities in each other, and so So I was wondering too, like, and I don't have an answer for this, that I wasn't sure if Edward Norton didn't like Marla being there because it took away from his thing as much as he didn't like someone finally seeing him. Right. Even though what he wanted was to be seen. Right, but maybe not putting the mirror up and showing him what he was. Correct. That's how I've always read it. Was that this sort of push pull attraction with Marla was like, Wow, finally somebody actually sees me for all my you could say brokenness. Yeah. Right. ⁓ and that's threatening. Right. So this like split part of my personality has to connect with her. Uhhuh. Because I can't contain it or process it or tolerate it. Even though deep down I think what the ending is telling us is like that's really what he wanted all along. Right. champion her as like the ideal character to do that. Right. I think you could make an argument that her brokenness allows her to accept his brokenness. Right. Because they're basically essentially s very similar. Yeah. They're just so messed up. Like like you said too. Right. I do think there's this interesting piece of like because he's so just emotionally unwell, like she presents a mirror to him in a way that could be very cathartic and healing. And he has to use his s split personality basically to interact with her because he can't tolerate it himself. And that is that you know, because when they first when he first confronts her at one of the meetings, and he's like, I'm gonna turn you in, basically for faking. Yeah. And she's like, I'll turn you in. Right. You know, like you're doing the same thing. And they have to split what days they can grow and they go to and so it's just interesting. Like and then just I don't know how each of them kind of does their things but I know it's a very interesting point that he couldn't handle that even though he did want to connect. So we Yeah, 'cause I remember like trying to make sense of it when I had first seen it and had the reveal of like, so if Tyler was in the sexual relationship with Marlit, it was really Edward Norton the whole time. He had to become Tyler, maybe to think he could like be again that sort of like hyper sexualized, have the prowess, be able to satisfy her. It's like a very interesting again, like meta psychology of she's still choosing him. Right. It's almost he doesn't think he can be him with her. Well, and then it was that weird dynamic that you would see where he would almost be jealous, right, of like his other personality, but also jealous of her yes taking away from his relationship with his other personality. And then he would almost have the Tyler character telling him to tell her to go away. Yeah, 'cause she's the threat. Yeah. And so I guess the way I made sense of the ending was like maybe the happy ending part of it was at least Edward Norton, Tyler, the narrator, integrated back into one person. Right. And he was present. So like nothing else. Yeah. He gains a sense of being present with her and the consequences of his actions where he doesn't have to battle himself anymore. I mean he's literally killed the Tyler part of himself, and just kind of be there. Right. So it's like a very dark, happy ending. If the happy is like yeah, he's reintegrated into his personhood. Well that's a little bit when I was reading like about like the ending for the novel. You know, about just like that like it was almost like he had this like because they consider the movie the happier ending. That I guess that would make sense. Right. Being institutionalized. Right. Versus him still being like, ⁓ no and then Tyler might still be lurking. Right, like not having that awareness still. He's still fractured. Yeah. Yeah, that's so fascinating. All right, so man, we've had some amazing conversations. So I have a few more as we're winding down. Did you have anything just in notes or that you wanted to touch on specifically? ⁓ you know, I have to give Edward Norton credit. Yeah. With the art like again, it was like prime Brad Pitt moment. But like again and then it's also interesting, I didn't ⁓ like a lot of the Hulk movies before Mark Buffalo, but then Edward Norton going on play the Hulk. Yeah. It's kind of an interesting thing to think about because he also plays a fractured creature, essentially or person, yeah. Who then has a literally has a rage monster inside. And I was like, ⁓ look at you. You know, like that's such a good parallel. I love that. Part two, you've already done this, you know, like and you get to be a hero of sorts, right? Yeah, you get to do this whole thing part. So I guess I was when he was like doing the whole thing and I knew that he was actually also I was like, ⁓ you've already done it as a Hulk, you know. Or like later you go on. Yeah. So anyway, that's my just little sarcastic. I love that though. And I think that they're all phenomenal and all movie. Yeah. Especially again, I'm sad you didn't never got to see it not knowing. Right. But I I think it just landed so well of like these distinct people with these distinct personalities and roles and the challenges and then that like light bulb moment of these are again just like fractured versions of him. Right. And him trying his best to feel something and to come out the other side was so interesting. ⁓ let's see. Mm-hmm. think actually we hit most of the things. I think that we did such a great a great job at this. I guess so maybe kind of bringing it all together, is there anything you think you would have really understood differently if you had seen this much younger? So A and without the twist B. You know, and again I I wish I could have seen it without the twist. Yeah without knowing I I am the person who will if if someone runs the end of the movie I'm like, ⁓ whatever, you know, sure but I think in this movie because I wasn't as excited to see it. I just never put in the time. Yeah. But for a lot of things I'm fine if my friends ruin the ending and then I go in and still see them. But I think for this if I had actually probably seen it when it came out, there is a part of me who wonders if maybe I wouldn't Maybe I would have had it like not as skeptical and I. Sure. Yeah. Because now I think with the times that we're in, I'm like, ugh, toxic mexculin. You I yeah, I kinda had to a fair I had to pause and be like Yeah. Just watch it objectively. Stop judging. Sure. Stop getting annoyed at Edward Norton. Everybody's got problems. Like call me or try. Try to like rile up some empathy. Yeah. 'Cause I think when I first started I was like, You know, like that's totally fair. Which I know sounds silly. And I was like, where do we get to the fighting? You know, like where when is this? But again, I think they did a good job portraying just that mindless yeah. Thing that I feel like probably most people feel like they're in. I do think that's a fair observation is like it's hard not to feel averse to something that looks like it's glamorizing this with everything going on. I think it helps to be curious and try to lean into it. And I I do think you really walked away with that clear understanding of the satirization. but yeah, it's tough to kind of champion a a movie that seems on the surface like just completely pro the most toxic aspects of being a man. So whatever and then part of me thinks maybe younger me wouldn't have gotten all the things. Maybe maybe I would have figured some things out. But I feel like me I I guess on some level 'cause then there's a part of me that feels like for a while it was all about there was a whole thing of men getting in touch with their feelings and then I feel like the now is been the backlash of toxic masculinity. Right. And so I was like, where does this movie kind of fit in with that timeline? Fair with that 'cause so would younger me have appreciated or for me looking back, this almost like the satire of this, like, here's what this is, but this isn't helping anybody. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great point, 'cause all I really remember and I know we already talked about this was I was more just sucked into the ride. Mm. and the mind blowing moment of like, whoa and then wanting to go back it for the Easter eggs. Right. I don't know that I was quite at the age or the self awareness to want to dissect it that way. I just kind of similar to Sixth Sense loved being surprised. Right. And even Sixth Sense I rewatched recently, which hopefully I could do episode now if someone hasn't seen it. And it hit me so different now as an adult of the unprocessed grief and like this young boy and how scared he is in his relationship with his mom and like being so othered and outside of all of his friends. I just remember I probably watched a couple years ago and just sobbing. And I didn't cry when I saw a six center movie when I was young. I just again walked out like, Whoa, how did we write this? How did we not see this coming? Like and I think in my memory that's how I felt about Fight Club until probably the last 'Cause I've watched it many, many times. I think I watched it again last year just 'cause I was like, ⁓ I have it. I have D V Dz. I love all my like I'm not gonna judge, so do I. Tangible media, yeah. So I had like popped it in, hadn't seen it in a minute and it was I think it does hit different now because of context. Right. You're like, ⁓ I I don't know if this is pro or anti or Does that make me pro or anti? Like it's just I think neat to look at it at different stages. Right. Yeah. And again, that's why I'm like me I'm on a level I feel like maybe it's okay that I saw it now because I don't know if some of me would have got the things and then maybe I'd been like, ⁓ I've already seen that movie or whatever. You know? So looking back at it now, although I do have to point out the irony of him like making copies of the rules. So like I don't we don't talk about fight club and like a job. Yeah, we probably don't make copies on the coffee machine. You know, so they're just little weird humor things throughout like that I thought was funny and then also again as he is when he s just starts just first hanging out with Tyler a lot of the things they're doing are sort of like that juvenile delinquent stuff. Yeah it's almost like he's a younger version of himself. That he maybe never got to be. I think that's a great point. It's almost like a regression conversation too. It sounds like dad left. Yeah. He had to grow up. He did all the things it because you heard when he had the conversation where he's like I went to college. Yeah I did this, you know. I got a good job. Yeah, but I'm gonna go place. I'm not fulfilled. It was like you should get married, but I don't wanna get married. You what I mean? And so I just I feel like especially now because I feel like you know, there was always the pressure, like you gotta go to college, you gotta get a job, you gotta get married, you have to have kids. Whereas I feel like now people have much freedom of choice with that a little bit and a little I I think probably to your point, like there's a lot of previous decades now where people have done that and are contending with I don't know that it was really all it was cracked up to be. Right. So that the younger generations are maybe taking a step back and saying, like, well I've seen you know my parents or my older siblings or my aunts, my uncles, like people in my sphere. So they're how they're gonna sell it to me when I'm seeing their again, lack of happiness, lack of satisfaction. Like I don't know that that's the blueprint I need to follow when I'm not seeing a lot of evidence. That works. Right. So for him, I feel like when I watched it, it was like he almost went back to have the joy that he didn't get to have as a kid. Yeah. And then it spiraled because then it was kind of built if this would be that toxic masculinity teenager. Yeah. Going forward. Yeah. great, great observations. ⁓ I love it. So, okay, as we're winding down, if you flash forward a week from now, what image or moment from this film do you think might live rent free in your head? to you know again the epic scene of them holding hands the stuff is exploding is at the end. Yeah. Is probably to be honest I'm also like him Meatloaf holding him on his breast while he cries. I'm like, ⁓ well I won't be able to get that out of my head for a while. I can immediately conjure it up in my brain. Yeah. I was like that one 'cause they they it happened so many times, like again back to the I mean again I think it is just I I have to give it an iconic movie ending. Yes. Hands of Helen Avon Carter, just exploding. Yes. He's tried to reintegrate himself. He's tried to kill off like where he can like the bad character. Yeah. And who knows where we head from here. Yeah. I agree. I think that scene is just inseparable from the movie as a whole. And I even had looked up the song that plays because I don't hear that song very often. It's not super popular now. It there's no way I I could ever hear that song and not think of that scene. Right. Like they are just married forever. because it was quite a roller coaster of a movie. So like as it's ending and you're seeing this and you're hearing the like very bizarre ethereal type mm hmm vocals. Right. it's pretty iconic. Yeah. Like you're just kind of like, what the fuck did I just watch? Yeah. Because you're like, what do you mean he you know, if you had no you would like, what do you mean that he's actually Brad Pitt? Right. And then you're like you're still processing it. And then it stops exploding. And so I feel like that would probably be that scene because although I'm skeptical, there's a part of me that hopes. Yeah, I like that piece too though like maybe now he can do something with this information. Right. Yeah. I love it. Awesome. Okay, so one other way that I've been ending ⁓ all the episodes is I'm asking people what's a movie that like you love, love, love that maybe I haven't seen and I'm making a list. ⁓ I mean, well, to be honest, I guess I could be like you should watch Tell the Boys I Love before. I mean it's super je ⁓ right. I'm gonna preface with it's super jeezy. It's okay, like chick flicky girl thing. Okay. Whatever. based off a young adult book. ⁓ god, yeah. It's a YA it you know, but it has spawned like a T V series. ⁓ wow, how do I miss that? One of the other characters that's now had three seasons and some of the original movie characters are making appearances. Yeah. And it's kind of one of those, like even in some other shows they like pull this in. So I guess on a level it's one of those like fake dating relationship things that have two sequels and it's like a whole thing. But if you want just a little feel good sure movie like you know as silly as silly as it sounds something maybe complete opposite into the spectrum from Fight Club. I am open. Yeah. And you could be watching At me like what this is, you know. So if you want something less heart heavy that you can probably predict how it will end, just go with just go with it. Just go with it. Appreciate the cheese ball of all the things and you know and the references, and then when he's like, We need to watch Fight Club, you know what I mean? I love it. Okay, sold. Alright, well, as we're wrapping up, tell everybody where they can find you, your podcast, if you've got handles you want them to jump on. Yeah, so again, under my physical therapy ⁓ it's better fit therapy so if you follow that online and then that has a link To my podcast that's also on Spotify, which is the state of healthcare. And then also if you want on a personal note, then if you want to see my aerial adventures and all the things I like to eat and pictures of my cats, you can find me at AZ Cupcake Girls. But yeah, ⁓ check out the podcast and and see all the other things and ⁓ which is I love my podcast, but it's a little bit more like I'm like maybe not as fun. I was like I was really enjoying watching the movie, but I really appreciate all the people that have come on and taken the time for me. So cool. Well and I would love to come and crash your side too. Yeah, so look for more might be on mine shortly. So I think that would be a blast. So thanks for hanging out with me again. Hopefully you watched Fight Club before you listened to this episode. And we're not responsible for spoiling or anybody. Yeah. ⁓ my gosh. But yeah, you can ⁓ find me on ApplePie Spotify podcasts and YouTube, ⁓ at Scene Interpretation Pod on IG, ⁓ at dr.sophia murphy on IG. ⁓ please like, subscribe, leave some comments. And really honestly, like I think we got into some awesome content. So I would love to hear what landed with people, what didn't. ⁓ and hopefully you're just enjoying me hanging out with cool people, having cool conversations. Yeah. Well, until next time. Bye.