Kat Thorne: Welcome back to the Positive Habits podcast. I am very delighted to have the wonderful Captain Pete on today. Welcome. Good morning, Kat. How are you? Yeah, I'm not too bad, thank you. Good. I'm really excited to share your story and I know you're probably feeling a little bit nervous and I feel a little bit emotional, I think, about having this conversation with you because obviously I know you reasonably well now. And actually, think we met before Men Who Plunge, we met through another sea-dipping group a couple of years ago. What's your opinion? I mean, it's June, right? It's Men's Mental Health Awareness Month. What do you think is actually going on with men in the world today? Because it seems to me in the work I do with both Plunge, but also The Morning Gamechanger, that a lot of men especially are struggling at the moment. Yeah. What's your thoughts? One word? Yeah, go on. Disconnected. Disconnected. And that's disconnected from every aspect of life. disconnected in love, relationships, in the workplace, in public, on social media, there's a complete disconnect. Okay, so let's get into that. What do you, what's causing people to be disconnected or men that we want to talk about men specifically in this episode, what's causing men to feel disconnected? I believe it to be historical, which stems from the past hundred years. So we've seen two world wars and numerous others. So if you think like my grandfather was in the war and he had to man up, he didn't have a choice. He was drafted in and had to go to war. Didn't have a choice. When he come back, where was he going to offload all of that trauma? So he had to find a way to deal with that. And I think that has progressed through the generations of men. So we don't talk about what's going on for us. We man up, we get stuff done. And the disconnect is that there's nowhere to talk about how we actually feel or what's actually going on for us. We can't talk to other men about it. We can't talk to for fear of being ridiculed or laugh that or told we're weak. And we can't do that at home. because the family looked to us for that strength and that leadership. So to open up with what's actually happening for us is a sign of weakness. And I think it just means we just bottle it up. So we're not connecting in the right ways to the right things. So we're connecting in other ways, alcohol, drugs, and all the bad stuff really that none of it doesn't really serve anybody. Has this been your experience as well? Have you spent some of your life holding now? you happy to share that on the blog? Yeah, I'll be 51 next week on the 9th of June. Yeah. 51 next week. Okay, so you're 50. Yeah. Have you spent some of your years feeling disconnected? I would probably say my whole life. Wow. Even as a kid. Even as a kid? Yeah. Why as a kid? Because I think Growing up for me ⁓ was not a great experience. My mum and dad split up when I was very young. I don't really remember my dad being at home. But my dad's very much like a hardened man. I mean, give him his due before going any further. He's lined up a bit. Obviously, he's like 68 or so now. He was 18 when he had me. I think my grandfathers were a lot like that. That's how men were in my life anyway, in my experience as a kid. My mum, on the other hand, was very, don't want to deal with that. We're not talking about it. So I couldn't speak to my dad because for fear of being told off or shouted at. Couldn't speak to my mum because mum didn't want to know. Well, she didn't know how to. She didn't know how Maybe she didn't have the capacity to deal with them. yeah. And then because my family life was was very strict. I felt disconnected at school because my mum was strict. I had to be in at a certain time. My friends were allowed to stay out later. So there was a disconnect. I felt odd. I felt out of place because they were the cool kids because they were allowed out late. They were allowed to do this. They were allowed to go to this park and I wasn't and stuff like that. So I always had that disconnect. I felt like I didn't really couldn't really be who I wanted to be. It's a bit weird. Yeah, I just didn't feel great as a kid. But that changed, I think, for me when I hit about 15, 16, when I started smoking and I started drinking. And then I connected. That's so interesting. With other people that smoke and other people that drink. And then did that give you some sort of sense of I guess some kind of community in a way, when you look back now, you might not have seen it at the time, but you felt like you had something in common. Yeah, because what I think I just became when I got, I mean, I'm guessing I don't want to judge people or assume, make assumptions. But for me, having that drink enabled me to be the person who I wanted to be. The weird thing is, is it wasn't. I wasn't actually being the person I wanted to be. It was more the person that I thought they wanted me to be. That's so interesting. So I was the one that was always standing up last, getting drunk. I was always the one instigating the party. I'd be the one, if someone said, let's get four cans of beer, I'd be like, no, I'll get four, let's get eight. And then we'd get a bottle of vodka. I'll be the one that would be the one dancing on the table, making a fool out of myself. The one. Acting stupid around girls, showing off and stuff like that. And that gave me that connection because people wanted to be around me then. ⁓ he's a royal laugh, his old Pete Neville. ⁓ Looking back, I was actually an idiot about it. But the problem with that was that it just escalated and escalated and the real me was getting buried further and further and further. So what's the bit between then and 50? What happened? How come now? I I look at you now and I think, wow, this man is a member of a huge contributor to a lot of men's communities, especially men who plunge. Someone in the community who is very inspirational, someone who other men and women look up to as somebody who's actively working on themselves to be a better father, to be a better person. So what happened between then and now? I just got tired. I got really tired of having this mask through ultimately alcohol, I My first suicidal thought was at about nine years old. I was stood in front of a mirror, brushing my teeth, promising myself that when I was old enough and I knew how to, I would kill myself. Bearing in mind that at that time we didn't have internet, so there no way for me to Google how to commit suicide. And then there was kind of like a cycle of every, I guess, seven to 10 years, say, where I'd go through these real bouts and I would make attempts. I got once, 12 was the first, and then sort of from sort of 18, I had numerous attempts onwards. And then The tiredness, I think, came in 2022 when I was nearly 15-stunned and I just knew I was a fat, lazy drunk and my daughter wanted to play with me and I was like, no, because I was getting hot and sweaty and exhausted and I thought something's got to Something's got to change. So, 1st of June 2022, I got to... the gym at five o'clock in the morning. I had no idea what I was going to do. I just got on a treadmill and ran for 30 minutes. And then I got out the next day, went to the gym, had no idea what I was going to do, lifted weights for an hour. And I did that every day for a year. I lost a stone, but I was still drinking. Still not really eating very well. And I felt really stagnated. I liked where this was going, but I just, I'd stagnated. So I got a personal trainer. And within three months, lost another three stone or more, got down to 10 and a half stone. I did a photo shoot. You can see my results on my Instagram. I just got through far enough. And yeah, it was a good experience. But that was a big turning point in my life because in order to get into that shape, I had stop drinking. My meal plan included no more than two beers a week. And it included the takeaway. but I used to share my takeaway rather than eat like countless tubs of curry. I would share it and just drink two beers. After about two months, I'd sort of got fed up with beer and I was like, you know what, I'm just going to drink Pepsi Max. So I started drinking Pepsi Max instead with more curry, all my Chinese. But what happened then, I never foresaw because I'd constantly heard that if you're feeling down, you're feeling depressed, go to the gym. get that aggression out, get that, do something with yourself and it'll make you feel better. Well, yeah, it does, but also it doesn't. Not if you've been relying on alcohol to subdue your feelings and emotions for 40 years like I had, because now I wasn't drinking, had nowhere to hide. So all of those thoughts and emotions were just bubbling away inside and it became too much. So I think between 2022 and 2024, try to take my life twice. and I was in a bad way. I eventually, initially I thought I could deal with it myself. Took me, so January 2024 was my last attempt. Took me a good few months to realize that actually I can't do this on my own. I'm gonna have to get some help. So I self-referred for therapy, but guess what? Three month wait. ⁓ my God, what am gonna do? I don't think I can last another three months. So I... A friend of mine had mentioned the men's club. So I went on to Google and searched for it. And what I was actually looking for was Andy's Man Club. What I actually found was a sea-diving group in South Sea. I don't know if I can say the name of the group. You can, swing. So it's a group called Man Mind that doesn't exist anymore. But there is a new one called Tribe South Sea. Yeah, so my thought process was that of no one's... It sounds really cliche, no one's going to help me. And if anyone is going to help me, I don't think they can. And so I just got up one Saturday night, I Googled it, found it, took it away from going down to seafront in the morning. And I left at seven o'clock that morning and went down to the seafront. There was a bunch of men down there and I got out of the van, stood there, just to the side. I was a mess. And one of the guys looked over, saw me, came over and said, you don't need to say anything. I know exactly what you're feeling. You stick with me and we'll do this together. And I'm going to shout that man out. His name is Dan Harris. I went down to the beach and sat next to Stu Benfield. This is so lovely. This story is so lovely because I know they're really good friends of yours. And we just... There was another guy called Craspy and Mark and they got me in the water. I actually went down with none, with just the clothes I had on. I did the breath work and I ended up thinking to myself, you're on the beach doing breath work, you might as well get in now. Could you just get in? I got in, I had white boxer shorts on that went see-through. Fee! ⁓ And I had a conversation with June and one of things that come out with that conversation was he recommended a book to me called The Chimp Paradox. And so I went home and bought that book and started reading it. And that made me realize that book, anyone, my first advice to anyone that's struggling with inner forces to go and read that book, because that was the book that made me realize I'm not broken. I'm not psychotic, I'm not a monster, I'm just a human being with a really aggressive, active chimp. Yeah. And it helped me to really understand how my brain was working. I also, before I met any of you guys, I also read The Chimp Paradox. It was one of the first books I read and it also changed my life and I recommend it to everyone. I think it's... out of all the books I've read over the years, it's the one book that I would always say, read. That's just, sorry, and I think it's just still on the old white boxes, but wow. mean, wow, Pete, that's just incredible. That whole story. And then that person who we know and love to be Dan Harris, just could see you. And maybe there was something in him. maybe he was feeling similar or he had, for some reason he could just see. He saw you. He saw you. Yeah. And that could have completely changed the trajectory of your life had you not had that realization, not gone there, not met those people. So they were the foundations of it. What I then found was that the more I went, the better I was feeling. And I ended up buying an ice bath for a... excuse me, at home. So I was doing the sea dipping on a Sunday and then every other day I would do an ice bath. And at the time, at this point as well, I was then doing our CBT therapy, which was every Saturday morning. And as soon as my call ended on a Saturday morning, I would shut my computer down, go straight downstairs and get my ice bath for 10 minutes. Because that enabled my mind to go completely blank and not fester on what I'd just done in my therapy. So it gave it like a... It was like empty the bin and then come back to it later. Yeah. And that really helped. And the more I went to Mad Mind, the more I found, I think I then started to the Dan Harris, where I would see men that were struggling and I'd be like, I see you. Like, this is what we do, come down with me. And the more I spoke about it, the more I spoke to them. about them and about me, if they asked me, then it just relieved, it just gave me a release and it helped me to become mentally stronger. And then what happened after that was that one of the other men was a volunteer for a band of brothers, which is a mentoring charity, and he invited me to an open evening. And I assume that because of the way I was conducting myself within the Manmind group, he could see there might be some value in doing the same with Abanda Brothers. And so, yeah, long story short, I ended up with Abanda Brothers, which is mentoring young men, providing them with positive masculine role models. And with that, we do a lot of work on the sort of past traumas and stuff. A lot of it, I think some of it's sort of CBT-based. The stories we tell ourselves, inner beliefs and stuff like that. And because I have to do the same as the mentees, obviously I got a lot of value out of that as well. So a lot of work was done on myself. So I gave up the alcohol, but what I didn't give up was my gaming. And because my alcohol had gone and I'd lost that way of masking, I was then gaming more. And when I just before went on to my residential rice capacity weekend with a band of brothers, I was gaming like... As long as I was awake and I was in my house, I was gaming. I would stay up till four or five in the morning, gaming and get up for work at seven and go to work. So this is kind of, you've given up our core, you've lost the weight, you've had the personal trainer, you found these guys, you found this sea dipping, you found Banner Brothers, but yet you're you're battling with this gaming because this is the one thing now that's taking you out of your head. Yeah, it was an escapism from reality of having to deal with real life. Do you think that's because... And I think this goes for men and women. We're not really taught how to deal with things. I feel like you're just thrown into this world sometimes and it's given all these expectations like you should go and get married, you should have a good job, you should buy a house, you should have children and live happily ever after. And then all the stuff happens in life. Yeah. So an African proverb from a of brothers is, if we do not initiate these young men into the village, they'll burn it down just to feel the heat. So the point is, is in indigenous tribes, when the young man gets to a certain age, and I believe they do it with the women as well, but in a different concept, the village needs that man to contribute to the village. So they'll take that young man off and they'll show him how to hunt, how to kill, how to build, how to cook, how to hold the conversation, all aspects of life, how to run their life. And then when they're taken back to the village, they're told they're given a role and responsibilities. And during that time, once they're given that role and responsibilities, going forward, they meet up weekly or daily and they ask what went well, what didn't go so well, and what do they need from the community? It doesn't matter whether you're 16 or 32, when you leave education, you're in the same position. have no idea how to run a household or have a family or what's expected of you from society. You have to make it up based on what you see nowadays online or what you're taught from your forefathers and foremothers. And the world was a very different place for our forefathers as to what it is now. So we don't stand a chance. A lot of young people are written off before they've even given a chance. And part of that is because they don't know what to do. And also going back to what you were saying about your thoughts and the Chimp Paradox is we also don't know which thoughts are serving us and which ones are sabotaging us. And the brain is so powerful. Yeah. Yeah. And when you think that ultimately suicidal thoughts are thoughts, like when somebody gets to a point where they feel that they need to take their life because they have no other option, that ultimately that is a combination of lots and lots of thoughts, isn't it? And what I want to say is that when I said earlier, like, if you go to the gym, it'll make you feel better. If you eat better, it'll make you feel better. If you do this, you can, you know... I think what people need to be able to do is have inner awareness. If you just go to the gym and you don't have that inner awareness, the likelihood is it's not going to serve you as well. And the reason I say that is because for me, if I'm feeling angry, I'll know that perhaps I'll need to listen to some music, calming music, or go for a run. If I'm feeling particularly like... anxious, I might have an ice bath. That awareness to know how I'm feeling and how to deal with it. The problem is, is that there's so much social media in our lives. If I'm feeling suicidal and I'm online, what do you think I'm going to see? Stuff all about suicide, not stuff about how to help me stop feeling suicidal. Like, why is that even a thing? And you can look at that with every aspect of your life, whether it be a relay. If you're having a difficult relationship with a parent or a loved one and you're online and you're feeling a bit down because of it, you're going to see why you shouldn't speak to your mum no more. You're going to see why your mum's a narcissistic old bag that you shouldn't even give the time of day to. So then the question is, how do you create self-awareness? Because you're right. It's that... I talk about this all the time because one of the reasons that I had such a catastrophic... life explosion was because I had no space to create any awareness. So I was literally like living in autopilot. And I think a lot of people, especially men, are also doing the same. If you think about it, when a typical day in the life of a man, let's say someone like you, who's in a trade, you're Pompey born and bred, as you told me the other day. So when you wake up, maybe someone snoozes their alarm for a bit. They check their phone. They rush around getting ready for work, getting kids ready or whatever. They work all day. They get home, they're exhausted. They have cooked their food, do the washing, whatever needs to be done. And then it's like on the phone or whatever and then bed. And where's the space to even know how to go about creating awareness? How do you even do that? For me, like my space was always when are we going to the pub? What time are we going? Which pub are we meeting at? now and that goes back to what a man should be in society. That's what everyone thinks, like assumptions and judgments. for me growing up, a man was go to work all week and then go to the pub on a Friday. To do the things that I do now would be seen as a bit odd, a of a bit out there, a bit fluffy. A fluffy, yeah, was trying to think of a politically correct word. Maybe even a bit feminine. Yeah, so I just opened my mind up to just trying different things. So the C-dipping was obviously the first one, but also like I've been to a sound bath. I'm not sure what I made of it, but I gave it a go and I did get something from it. Meditation, like to me like four years ago meditation, I was like, what do need that for? That's just for like weirdos or hippies or whatever. But I got a lot from it. meditation with sound and music. I think you can get frequency meditation, which is what I've been doing, and 9D breath work, which is another really good one. I'm yet to try that one. I found myself recently looking for a dance school. And I'm watching videos of this dance school and these guys are not my type of guy, but that's a very judgmental side of me from before. So, And that's what keeps us unaware because we create these judgments based on what? Based on what we've been taught, based on what we see online, make your own judgments. But in order to do that, you have to put them to one side and just do what you feel you want to do, have some fun in life, you know? And so, yeah, so we've got a going to another men's wellness retreat that's been being organized for the end of June. And there'll be I've never done yoga before, not properly. I'm going to try that. That might be something I'll get into. and then what suddenly what you find is that there'll be aspects of all these different things that will help you to tune into who you are and what actually makes you tick, what calms you, what agitates you. I don't know. just gives us, just trying all of these different things is just enabling me to recognize when I'm starting to feel emotional in some sort of way, how to deal with it. Yeah, I think that's so important. if there are people inevitably, there are to be people listening to this who maybe feel like you used to or have done maybe on in your journey, maybe as serious as having suicidal thoughts or just feeling not great in their life and they don't really know where to start. Would you say looking for a community like you found with Manmind or Manyplunge or Panda Brothers or one of the, would you say that would be a good place to start? Because I think I've always, the purpose of this podcast was always to talk about people's stories, but then not leave people with just all of this information and then know where to go. I think it's so inspiring to hear your story and I really appreciate you sharing it and it wasn't easy for you or for me. But actually, now someone's listened to this. where do they go? Where do they start? Because like you, they might have thought about therapy and they might have rejected it or they might have gone down that road. And I think that's a whole other complication anyway. Where do you even start? And then even if you did get, like you did the referral, you can't wait three months. So what could people practically do right now? So I think community and connection is definitely the one. The first thing I want to say is that because it's easy for me to say, ⁓ you should do this, you should do that. But I came up with my own mantra, which is, what are we, W-A-W-I. So the W, the first W is what, why, and that's my why, which I can share with you in a minute if you wanna know what that is. But the what if is, and this is a fairly recently thing, recent thing that I've come up with, and it's what if I smile, when no one else is smiling back at me? What if I love when no one else is loving me back? What if I run when everybody else is walking? What if I walk when everyone else So doing the complete opposite. So you do things without expectation. Give love. Like if I'm walking down the road and you're a bit annoyed and you're coming the other way and you look like you're angry. Two years ago I had walk past or three years ago. Four years ago, I'd walk past you and thought, what's the problem? I'm now carrying some of your negative energy because I'm now cheesed off because you give me a dirty look. Then the next, I don't know, little old Doris is walking along, morning. And I'm like, out of here, old bag. Do you see what I mean? if when you first walked past me, if I just kept smiling, you, one, I'm still smiling, so I'm feeling better. Two, you may be feeling a little bit lighter now. And Miss Doris is going to be over the moon because when she says good morning to me, I'm like, how are doing? You're all right? What a beautiful day. So the point of the what if is why live your life based on other people's reactions, actions and expectations. So what if you just go down to the sea on a Sunday morning and get in the sea with a group of men you've never met before? Because actually that could be the turning point in your life. Yeah. And do you know what, have to say this because it's one of most powerful things I think I've ever heard is what is the best that could happen? Yeah. That we always default to the worst, but what's the best that could happen? They could have a similar experience to you. It could save somebody. It could change their whole path. Yeah. And you get one life. And I think what I find really sad, really, really sad is to see so many people suffering. Yeah. And some of that suffering is isn't necessary. So going back to your original question, what can they do? So hopefully if you can take the what if. So what if I go down to the beach, you can go to South Sea or you can go to Leon Solent and men who plunge, eight o'clock on a Sunday, what's the worst that can happen? I mean, I guess the worst thing that can happen is you turn up and decide, I'm going to go, but I'm not going to do it. We do get some men turn up and they don't want to get in the water, but they still turn up. some of them come for a couple of weeks and they're sort of weighing it up. But the first time I got in the sea, I had men supporting me. I've never had that before. The second time I got in, the third time, the fourth time, I had these men around me. We then went to a local ice bath venue and there was an ice bath set at two degrees. I think the coldest I've done in the sea was about seven. And being like the sort of person I am, was like, I'm getting in the two degrees. So I got in the two degrees and I did two minutes. I then did 10 minutes sauna. Then I did two minutes in the two degrees again. So I the two degree tub four times on the trot. No real, I mean, I'm lying if I say with no trouble, I was in trouble. It was freezing. But I did it. I didn't realize the impact. of the community until about two months later, I'd been regularly ice-bathin', regularly going in the sea. When I say ice-bathin' at home, I don't have a chiller, so was generally the same temperature as the sea. I think the coldest more tub at home got to was about six degrees. But one afternoon, I had no work, I was quiet, and I was feeling a bit low, and I thought, you know what, I'm gonna go over to this place, and I'm gonna spend an hour in Nelmiot. So I went over, and... I can believe it. I was literally on my own. There was nobody else in there. When I thought I'd be on my own, I thought it'd just be me and then it'd be some other people, but it was literally just me. Do you think I could do two minutes in a two degree tub on my own? I barely lasted 30 seconds and I had to get out. I went in the sauna for 10 minutes to warm up. Then when I came out, I went back to the two degree tub, paused and found myself getting in the four degree tub. I barely lasted 30 seconds. I had to get out. The third time, six degree tub barely lasted 30 seconds. And then the fourth time, they got four tubs, two, four, six, 80 degrees, and I couldn't last more than 40 seconds in any of them. And I was on my own. And that just shows when we're doing something hard together, you can go further and faster. It's incredible. Yeah. That's a really good example of why that's so powerful. And then the more that I've attended these sea-dipping groups. So eventually I stopped going to the sea-dipping in Portsmouth and then started attending Men Who Plunge in Leon Solent. I had a number of friends from Portsmouth that were attending that one, Stu Benfield being one of them. And it's just having that community, like that support getting in the sea carries over into everyday life. Like I regularly get messages from men, from men who plunge, the members via WhatsApp, Instagram, Facebook. Like I've only literally got to put in there like I'm feeling low today and ⁓ I'll get messages, phone calls. ⁓ I love that. And I think other men get the same back as well. I don't think that that's not just me. And it's just like... I just wish, like, I feel like my life in the last two years has been more enriched than my entire life. Wow. Because of community and connection. The community and connection I had up until four years ago was embedded in alcohol. And what I will say is that two or three months after, so March 2024 was probably one of the last times I spoke to my 40 year old friends from school. I don't hold that against them, but I told them about my suicides, suicidal thoughts and attempts, and I'm going to suggest that they didn't know how to deal with it. But it also, to me, it highlighted the fact that those friendships couldn't really progress any further because they were always based on alcohol, womanizing, smoking, and just being stupid. And Dapper Laughs, if you're listening to us you don't know who Dapper Laughs is, definitely follow him. His Menace to Sobriety podcast talks about this a lot, about how a lot of his friendships were based on alcohol. And when he decides to go sober, he found it really lonely because a lot of those people were in his past and he couldn't connect with them. I remember one thing he said once when he was so in his heyday of doing drugs and alcohol, he said, He had this family at home at the time and he said all I wanted to do was be in the pub. And now he's sober, all he wants to do is be at home. It's funny because I look back, I never thought of myself as an alcoholic or alcohol dependent until after I stopped drinking. And then I was able to look back and I thought, you were an alcoholic man. You were a down and out alcoholic. your life focused around the pub opening. I mean, I wasn't basing it on pub open times, but it revolved around the pub and alcohol. Like weekends, like, I mean, one thing I would, like I wouldn't go to a pub that's shut at 11 o'clock if it was a Saturday night, because I wouldn't want to be in that pub when it's shut and I would have nowhere else to go. I'd have to make sure I was in somewhere that I'd open until two, three in the morning way before that, so I knew I'd be in there until two, three in the morning. But Monday, I've had a really rough day the other day, let's get some beers. Monday went really well today, let's get some beers. Tuesdays, I used to have off, and then I to drink Tuesdays. Wednesdays, it's midweek, we'll have a drink. Thursdays, I'd always used to meet my mates at the pub, they'd have four or five beers up there every Thursday from the age of 18 to the age of 47 every Thursday. Unless one of us was off dying and ill, then we wouldn't go, but generally speaking. Fridays, it's the end of the week. Let's get some beers on the way home. Saturday, takeaway. Got to a few beers with my Chinese. Better have bottle of vodka with that. I'll tell you what, we won't have vodka this week. Get bottle of red wine instead. Sunday, football's on. Only got two beers left in the fridge. Better go have a shot, get another six, in case I run out half time. No football on Sunday, no reason to have a drink, is there? Yeah, there is, it's sunny. We can have a barbecue. This is your chimp, like, coming up with all these reasons. So, pee. You are quite incredible and I really, just want to say how appreciative I am of you sharing this quite difficult story of your life. found it hard enough for it's going to be. Yeah. So I'll quite openly talk about it because it's a bit of a taboo, isn't it? Yeah. And there's a lot of damage caused by not talking about it. Yeah. But I think everything that you are saying and everything that we as individuals and as part of communities are doing. If we don't talk about these hard things, what messages are we sending to other people? And that's why I was so pleased that you said you'd come on today. So my final question, or just last to round up the episode, I just want to understand. So you're who, how disconnected do you feel now? How are you now? Because I also think it's really important not to pretend that everything's amazing and you're living this 10 10 life because you've got rid of alcohol and you've curb the gaming and you've joined all these communities because life is still very challenging, isn't it? You've got kids, you've got a wife, you've got your own business, you're spreading yourself thin, supporting all these other people. Yeah, there's a lot of pressure, not just on me, but on everyone. Life is hard. It's, yeah, I do get tired of it sometimes. Sometimes I do just think, you know what, I've had enough of this. Let's just sit here and eat donuts all day. Let's not go to the gym. Let's not go to plunge. Let's not get that. ⁓ no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't like the cold, I hate the cold. But what does that, I have to remind myself what that brings. And that brings hurt, pain, not just for me, but for the people around me. It brings misery. People react to who you are, how you're acting. Let me rephrase that. People act to how I am, how I behave. affects how they behave. And that's probably one of the hardest things to keep control of. But have to always bear that in mind, you know, we can have an off day. But with community, when you've got like, I'm a member of like four men's groups now, there's probably, I would probably say I over 100 men now that I could probably call up right now and go. I've just done this podcast and I'm in bits. I'm emotionally drained. And they'd be like, let's go for a coffee. ⁓ that's wonderful. have that, it's that that keeps me going. That's what keeps me turning up for work. That's what keeps me smiling to my customers. That's what keeps me connected with the people, other people that matter. Because in reality, life isn't always just about me. Because without realizing it, I'm impacting other people's lives as well. I'm taking for granted that if I come home moody, that's affecting my daughter somehow. ⁓ It doesn't mean I don't go home moody. I'm not preaching to say, you shouldn't go home moody because it's affecting. I'm just saying that people might see me as this like, ⁓ you've done amazing, but I still struggle. The only difference is I'm more resilient to it. I can deal with it a little bit better than what I don't have like these dark thoughts anymore. My life is worth so much more than going down that road, but I still struggle. And I think that's really important to say, but also I think one of the things I can hear in what you said in this whole episode is that you are aware. And I think you've gone from maybe living in this autopilot, this chaos of numbing to it's hard, it's hard to be sober. It's hard to be, because you're feeling all the feelings and all the emotions, all the things we want to push away and distract ourselves from. But because you are aware, you can hit, you can feel and you can notice when you're slipping or when you don't feel great or when you've snapped or... And that is, I think, the ultimate goal. the goal is now to stay aware. And also, like, some incredible things have happened because I've stuck at it. Like, I've climbed Ben Nevis. Which is no mean task. And I did it with a half broken back. I injured my back at the gym the week before. And somehow I made it up there. I did a 24-hour limitless run. food jets, gym friends, fighting cancer rates, 1500 quid for them. Amazing. Just these little events like we've been camping with the men from the sea dipping. We've been to Penny Fan. These things are not what I'd be doing if I was in a pub. This is true. And I think one of the things that's really important to kind of highlight here is that joining a community, whether that's like a running club or like obviously we're involved in plunge and I know you're a big fan of many plunge, but it's not just about the act of I ran Women Who Plunge. It's not just the act of the Sunday morning of getting in the sea. It's this army of this community of people who have got you 24-7. And I think friendships have been made. I also know for a fact that lives have been saved through these communities. And I think it's much greater than this one difficult act that we do together on a Sunday morning. And so I would really encourage anyone listening to this to do what you did as a first step and find a community local to you that becomes an incredible source of support. Yeah, I mean, I had best friends for 40 years of my life and that's been completely replaced with 40 best friends for the rest of my life through a community of men. that want the same thing, which is to be able to be seen, be heard without judgment and just be a human, not a man, just be human. We have this like, oh, you know what it is to be a man. No, what is it to be a human? What is it to, you don't have to be a woman to be compassionate and caring. You can be a man and be compassionate and caring as well. And yeah, I just think it's like you said, like, Would you still be going down to the sea if those women didn't turn up? You might get a little bit of value out of the cult. You might get some personal validation and clarity from doing it on your own. But the real power comes with the support that you get from those people doing it with you, experiencing the same thing. The biggest connection between people is when it's relatable. How reliable is it to get in the same temperature cold water? that you know they hate just as much as you and you're still doing it together. You still do it every week, you still turn up and you still smile about it. Yeah. And it's one of the big reasons now why we have seen such an important opportunity for the plunge truck, which is the mobile ice bath and sauna, to go out to companies. Because I think it's, if we only wait for people to come to us, I think we'd be doing a disservice to people who really need it. And we've started to see some traction with companies, whether that's in more male-dominated industries or not, I don't think it matters. think everybody can benefit from the power of community and doing hard things together, especially cold water. I think the corporate side would really, what's the word? It would be invaluable for some of these companies, I feel. Because I think the workplace, For a male, certainly, I don't know about women, but from my point of view, as a man, the workplace can be just like the pub, but without alcohol. You've still got the bloke in the corner you don't like, you've still got the one that you always get on with, you've still got the one that, I don't know, always makes the tea, and the one that always doesn't. You've always got the one that's like, I mean, in the workplace, you've got the one that always seems to be doing everything, and someone else is doing nothing. And I think that having community and getting that connection where suddenly a group of 10 men become one, all going in the same direction. imagine the possibilities of like the level of output, the working environment. you've got, I mean, I'll know for a fact, if there was a failing company, let's just say it's a factory floor, they're not getting enough boxes out the door. Because you've got John's always in the toilet, Bob's always having a cigarette break. He can't be bothered. He's always a coming in sick. Well, let's get all them out. Let's get the 40 men from men who plunge in, let them run the floor for a week. I bet you they'd get twice as many boxes out that thing because we've all got each other's back in the sea and we'd all have each other's back in the workplace. That's so true. That's so true. Pete, thank you. can't, I mean, this is definitely in the two years I've been doing this, this has been one of the most emotional episodes, but I think one of the greatest ones. I can't thank you enough. I share my why as a closing statement? Yeah, do it. So my why, my why, my why and what if. So I shared my what ifs. My why is that I believe that one conversation, one act of support and one person showing up can change the course of one life. And so for me, I stand beside people until they can stand stronger on their own. Thank you. Thank you.