Kat Thorne: Welcome to the Positive Habits podcast. I'm so excited for today's guest. Welcome, Winston, to the podcast. Thank you for making the time today. Thank you for finally fitting me into your very busy schedule, Miss Kat. This is definitely my fault that this is so delayed. I'm so sorry. I want to just talk about, before I get straight into the podcast, what a cool human being you are. I mean, we're going to talk about lots of cool things about you, but... But just because what I think the way that we got connected. So you and Stoyan, who's also a fellow motivational speaker, I don't know if it was both your ideas or if it's your idea or more his idea. So maybe we should clarify that before I get someone in trouble. Whose idea was it? Ooh, let me keep it at 50-50. I was going to say me, but let me keep it at 50-50. Okay, but you guys came together and you formed a speaker community. And when I met Stoyan and he told me about it, I just thought, how can this possibly exist? Aren't we kind of all in competition with each other? And I think that was quite early on in my speaking career. And I've realized, especially the last couple of years, how valuable it is to actually work together rather than see each other as competitors. Yeah, definitely. I think that's what Stoyan and I felt as well. Like we've both been a part of other speaker communities, so they do exist, but we wanted to do something that was the right word that comes to mind is probably more authentic and more like genuine and bringing people together who are not just speakers, but are people who like to serve others and support others. And like you've seen Kat from being in those meetings, like there's no gatekeeping that people want to share as much as they can, whether they have a year's experience or 10 years experience, like people are really kind and open. we basically created the kind of community that we always wanted to be a part of because the ones we'd explored previously didn't quite feel the same. Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. And I have only got joy and lots of amazing things out of it. So I thank you for creating that and for including me in part of it. So very excited to talk to you. So I've got to know you through this community over the last however many months. And I read something on your website that really stood out and I thought this could be a great starting point for our conversation today. And on your website, you have written, your limitations are an illusion. Yeah, that's honestly. Tell me about that. It's become like a bit of a mantra for me. And for me that came from a place of, and I'm sure we'll talk about my journey and my story at some point, but I think our voice, and I think this is relatable to a lot of people, there are things that we dream about, there are ideas that we have, there are big goals that we all want to achieve. Even when you write those things down, it could feel like they are so far away. It could feel like I'm never going to be able to start my own business or become a motivational speaker or get married or like have my dream body, whatever the thing is. It could feel so large in the beginning. And for me, your limitations are an illusion comes from when you start putting things, positive habits. That's probably what we're going to explore today. When you start putting in positive habits and positive steps, you can then look back and see evidence of, you know what, that thing that felt so big at one point. In my case, it was the speaking and getting married and starting my own family and traveling and all these things that felt near impossible at some point. I can look back and say, ⁓ actually, I'm doing it. that, that's the life I'm living. I'm living today. So I just use that as an encouragement. for myself, but also when I speak on stages and when I share my story, to empower people and say, just because the thing feels impossible or so far away right now, or feels like you're limited in some way to achieve that, I just want you to know that that's an illusion. Like you do get there by putting the right steps into place, if that makes sense. Yes. Okay. So let's talk about where does that... that mindset come from, because I'm sure like you, you have a lot, you meet a lot of people and a lot of people, I remember having this conversation some years ago with a chap I met and he said, I really hate my job, but this is kind of it sort of thing. And I was trying to have a kind of conversation with him about like, he could retrain, he could study, he could, this wasn't it. He didn't have to put up with this. choice that he had made. And he had convinced himself that it would be, it's almost like the devil you know, it would be worse to go somewhere else. What if he didn't like the boss? What if he didn't have some flexibility? So where does the mindset come from? Where does this mantra, where did this start? Have you always been like this or has this been something that's been developed over time? I think it's developed over time. I think for me, I suspect it comes from my own lived experience of having a disability. we didn't speak about it before, but I have a condition known as osteogenesis imperfecta, which is a mouthful. Basically means that I have a body that works a little bit differently. my bones, especially, they don't develop like the average person. So I am much smaller than a typical adult male. And with that as well, my bones are extremely fragile, especially when I was younger. I fractured a lot. I think we figured out that I must have fractured over 200 times in my lifetime, which, yeah, for anyone who's experienced any type of like fracture, you would know that that's a, it's a lot. especially to happen at that frequency. And so for me, I think Part of that mindset comes from having this body that would, especially when I was young, that consistently let me down. And at the same time, also having dreams and ambitions. I want to grow up and be a kid that initially you want to be an astronaut or you want to like drive a Formula One car or whatever, like be a footballer. Having these big dreams and at the start. But then looking at myself and thinking, wait, I can't even get through a week without fracturing something, right? And so again, I think through having these experiences where, and I think community was a big part of it for me. So initially that was my family. I think people encouraged me, hey, like it's harder. You might have to do things a different way. And then taking those steps. And then seeing that I was able to go to school, make friends, get a corporate job later on, start my own business, all these things, that is what began to reinforce that as almost as a way of life. Because I was able to look at where I started from and where it felt hopeless to actually work with some adjustments. There's a lot of things that become a possibility. I think that like you, can imagine when you were younger that it felt like all the odds were against you. So would you say that one of the profound things that helped you to discover that mindset were the people around you? Do you think people have played a really important role in you developing that mindset? I think people have. Yeah, just like I mentioned, you know, having that encouragement from people and having sometimes I say Like I say, being able to borrow other people's belief in the times when my own belief in myself was low, that's really important. I feel like that's something that many of us can relate to. We all have that teacher or that friend who has always believed in you, even when maybe it didn't make sense to, they saw you as a better version of yourself than what it felt at the time. So that's been big. But also when I think about it, I also did have like some, and I know you talk a lot about habits and cat, but I realized that yeah, there was just a couple of things that were helping me from a habits perspective. But of course, if you ask a five year old or a seven year old, like, what's your routine? Like, what are your positive habits? Like I wouldn't have known that these were there. But for me, ⁓ lot of that looked like. journaling and writing. I've always been someone who liked to just process my feelings and my thoughts through writing. And then I say also like my spiritual practices have been pretty big. So I grew up a Christian and that's been like another thing that's been a big part of my identity. And so even in the toughest moments being able to like use prayer or read scriptures, I found that was something that really helped me to find meaning in those moments of chaos. And some people use meditation, some people like to be outdoors. And for me, those were some of the things that kind of created balance and helped me to pick myself up, especially when I had all of those physical setbacks. And if you look at the world today, I mean, it's 2026, it's April when we're recording this episode. There's a lot of negativity in the world and I feel like a lot of people are finding life more and more difficult. It's interesting because in a way there are more opportunities than there've ever been. There's more technology advancements, there's more things available, but there's also this dark side with that readiness and that availability and that instantaneous culture. And that's a lot of doubt and lot of, like, as you say, limiting beliefs. So what do you think is holding people back? Yeah, honestly, it's a really tough time. And I feel like the technology and all the options that we have available to us, it's like a blessing and a curse as well. Yeah. The fact that we're able to have access to tools that would have cost probably millions of dollars just 10 or 20 years ago, we've now got them at our fingertips is wild. And, you know, as an example, having these tools, even like chat GPTs and things like that, that we all use. Okay, fine. They make us more productive. They make us be able to perform better in our roles. But what we find typically is that the more we're able to do, the more we keep doing, if that makes sense. And so people end up getting into this culture of just hustling and working and pushing themselves to the limit. And then also because a lot of these technologies need us to be basically hooked to our devices pretty much all day, every day, as we start to become more dependent on them, we're disconnecting from the real world. And this is something that even I've struggled with and I'm still trying to figure out fully because it's very easy. I remember when I was younger and even when I was in my teens and 20s before all the chat GPTs and the social media was the way it is today. I would speak to my friends pretty much every day. Like there would be a phone call. There would be a meeting at least once or twice a week. Even when we got into our careers and started working, we'd always make time for stuff like that. But nowadays, could easily go a month without speaking to my best friend. We would just be engaging by a text here or there, for example. And so I feel like that disconnection is not healthy. don't feel like humans were designed to be that way, to be outside of community, to be fully dependent on technology. And also with access to the news cap, I don't know if it's the same in the UK as it is in the US, but it feels like we just see a lot of horrible stuff in the news and in social media in graphic detail that... feel like we don't need all that information all the time. So that can't be doing people much good with their mental health. And yeah, like even with everything that's going on right now, know, at the time of speaking, there's wars happening all over the place and just a lot of challenging things that are happening that we all, it's very difficult to escape. So yeah, I guess short answer is that there's just a lot of tough things out there that we're exposed to right now. whether it's politically or technology, and a lack of community doesn't particularly help us to stay grounded during these times. So true. And I had this thought this morning and it reminded me, it took me back to 2020. So in 2020, I was a member of a different gym. And I talk about my gym story as part of a lot of my talks and workshops and things about how I've been going to gyms for, since I was in my twenties, so maybe 20 years now, but most of the time I've just been paying the direct debit and then not using them. And I remember going to this gym where I kind of just did classes or use the swimming pool and I didn't, I wasn't a regular member, but I remember going in COVID when it kind of was open again. But it was that very first few months where everything was very full on. They were reporting all the time about the number of cases and so on. And I remember like what a struggle it was to get out that morning, to get out of the door, to get to the gym, to do this class. And then how great I felt after. And walking into the changing room to be met with a blaring BBC News TV screen telling you how many people had died from COVID that day. And this morning I was also in the gym, like on my lunch break. And it's a different gym, but And I haven't been using it properly until recently. And I've only just noticed there are also TV screens everywhere in the gym with no sound, but guess what channel it's on? It's news. And I cannot for the life of me understand why in 2026 we still are projecting the news in public places where we actually can't control whether we you like absorb that information or not? Yeah, it's weird to me, yeah, guess there's, there's a part of it, whether it's news or like whether it's, I guess, stories that we see in the press and social media. It's like we have an addiction to bad news and like this is unrelated, but in a way related. So one of the habits that I have nowadays is, and my wife and I are ⁓ in agreement on this, like we don't take our phones to the bedroom. So when we like finish our dinner in the evening, it's basically leave the phones in the living room area or in the office. And when we go to the bedroom, like we'll just talk or we'll just like have some quality time. And then also what that means is when we get up in the in the morning, the first thing we're doing is not reaching for our phones. Right. But the reason that I bring that up is when we were not doing that, we'd get up in the morning, like probably like most people and no judgment. But the first thing you'd see after rubbing your eyes and opening them is your phone on the bedside table. And there's such a huge temptation, even if it's to just check an email for work. Right. And then all of a sudden you've gone down the rabbit hole of, okay, like, let me open Instagram and see. what's going on. And then there'll be like some breaking news story about something that's happened either in your country or overseas. And then now you need to find out more about that. So you go into the BBC website or Fox News, like whatever it is in your country, right. And before you know it, like you're still in bed and you've already like consumed like a ton of stuff that's raised all your stress levels. And so I feel like without having systems in place, we will keep reaching for that kind of thing because I don't know if it's like a survival mechanism where we feel like I need to know about every single bad thing that's happening so that I can protect myself from it, even though technically you can't like what's going to happen is going to happen anyway. So, so yeah, to your point about gyms, maybe maybe there's something similar there of like We know people love to know what's going on, so we're not going to have like feel-good music or like something positive playing on the screen. We're just going to give people what they want because they might feel disconnected if we don't offer that. So yeah, but counter-intuitively, feel like having that causes us a lot more damage than it helps us. Definitely, definitely. And in my house, I have a series of positive motivational quotes running up my stairs. And I often find myself, I mean, I've had them there for several years, but I often find myself just stopping and really looking and reading the one that I've stopped on. And when I've had people to stay or like friends, whatever, over, just said, like, I've never seen anything like this in someone's house. Most people would have photos of their family or whatever. And. I think it's really important that we think about information, especially when it's not in our control. I'm going to my gym about this and see like if they've, maybe if they've never, they've never thought about it. I maybe no one's ever mentioned it because it was like a thing, right? In doctors, surgeries, like just to have TV screens with something, like some content. Yeah, I just, I know what you mean. think that we still live in a world where bad news sells and I think it's part of human nature. But let's get back to the sort of the limiting beliefs and talk about that because I think people will listen to the podcast because they're looking for, they're looking for inspirational stories, of course, like yours. But really, I think we want to give people practical ways that they can. overcome their self-limiting beliefs. So we all have them, right? Whether they're around time or like we're not good enough to achieve something. How can we help people? Like what advice can you give based on your own like incredibly like inspirational story yourself, your own journey? Like how have you managed to overcome the things? Like for example, starting a family or like finding a relationship and finding somebody who would not judge you based on your disability. Like how did you manage to overcome that? Because I know you have a lovely wife and a family. What were some of the thoughts you had and how did you overcome them? Yes, it's, I mean, the thoughts that I had were what was probably programmed into me. not necessarily someone saying to me that, hey, Winston, use the wheelchairs. You're probably never going to get married because you use a wheelchair. But it was more around, I would say, the subtle messaging. For example, you don't really see people with disabilities represented in the media getting married or starting families and things like that. I read stories. of people with disabilities in books, having successful lives. Generally, when you come across someone with a disability, it's usually like a charity scenario, right? Like, how can we help you, right? Because your life must be extremely, extremely tough. So that was kind of like the co-work messaging that I was internalizing all the time, even though I had obviously my close circle my family and friends who were always encouraging and always pushed me out of my comfort zone. They were like a drop in the ocean compared to all the other like things that I was hearing from basically MRLs. And so for me, I guess the first thing to say like to make it practical is like you never get to a place where you figured everything out. And I think that that's one. limiting belief that maybe I had in the beginning that some people have reached a place where they have made it and and others will never make it in a way and so I kind of put myself in this bucket of I'm a write-off like I'm probably never gonna get to that level because they have all of these things going for them. So I'll say that's the first thing like everyone's on a journey even the people who appear to have made it. They're on a journey too, just because they are figuring out their career doesn't mean that they've figured out their relationships or just because they have their relationships, it doesn't mean that they've like figured out their health, for example. So everyone's on a journey in some area. And for me that became reassuring to know because it didn't feel unattainable. We're all working towards something. But yeah, as far as like overcoming limiting beliefs, I think for me, When I really break it down, it just comes down to having a process and then developing, taking the confidence from almost taking one step in your process. Right. So if we use my, yeah, my relationship, for example, I'm happily married, been married, it's going to be six years in August and in just a few months. for me, Initially, like I said, I didn't believe that that was going to be a possibility for me or I thought it was going to be, it was going to take a miracle, basically, for me to meet someone who saw me for me and valued me for the person that I am. And so that's not going to happen in a day. Like for me, the process was, okay, it's very, very hard. And hey, let's even say it's impossible. But let's say I was still committed to doing this, like what would be the first step, right? And for me, the first step I realized was, because I did have some previous relationships that never worked out. And again, that kind of reinforced the idea of relationships are not meant to work out for people in your situation. So for me, when I decided to do it differently was I started from a place of, okay, I'm going to work on myself and trust that. through working on myself and becoming the best version of me, then I will attract that person who sees those qualities, right? Because you could say that everyone thinks they're a good person, right? But what are you actively doing to work on yourself and improve yourself? And so I'll give a quick story about how this unfolded. So for me, working on myself was realizing that First of all, the career that I was in, I loved it. It was like paying me well, but it wasn't fulfilling for me. So I felt like the first step for me was to find my purpose with my career. And so that kind of eventually led me down the path of doing Toastmasters. I don't know if you've heard of Toastmasters. Yeah. Yeah, it's like public speaking practice. And then through doing that, I realized that, this... There's this new thing that's given me like a new lease of life, right? And so that was the first space where I started to share my story. And then now it's like, okay, cool. Like I feel like I still have my job, but I'm also doing something that's aligned, that's making me feel like I'm making the world a better place just through sharing my story. And so long story short, just through becoming more involved in public speaking, attending events. speaking as a motivational speaker, it was at one of these events that I met my wife, because she was attending the event, right? So there was like a networking opportunity at the event. it's actually a funny story because I was about to speak at that event, but at the last minute, they realized that they had double booked me and another speaker. So they asked me to not speak that time and they would rebook me for a future event. And I thought, okay, cool. Well, seeing as I'm not speaking, I don't know if I should go to this event. But in the end, I decided to just go anyway. And it was there that I met my wife because she happened to attend that event. And because I wasn't speaking on stage that day, I was in the audience and we got to connect and lo and behold, like six years married, have a baby, all of this stuff. So for me, and I know this is a very long winded story, but it just started off by Connecting to a desire, a dream, a goal that I had and then building a process which in this case just started with me finding more alignment with myself and trusting that through that I would attract the right person to be in a relationship with me. yeah, and I'm sure that could be broken down for any other thing that someone's trying to achieve. By the way, it wasn't a long way to the story. It was the most beautiful story and I loved hearing it. And I look forward to coming to Atlanta at some point in the near future and meeting your family because that's, it's really special and it's special, I think, especially because of the adversity and like it's, I think it's, it's a lot to, to manage all of those thoughts and, and, and someone, I guess. with a similar path to you could have chosen like the kind of poor me victim scenario. And I think it's really, it's really powerful to hear that you are now also helping other people to break through those beliefs. And it's also very aligned to what I do. And I think what makes me sad, I'll tell you a quick story. So when I was teaching, so I was really young, was young, I'm still young now, but I was really young. I was teaching a group of hairdressers maths and I was really, really enthusiastically teaching them and it was fractions and they didn't want to be there and I was trying to like encourage them to be there. They didn't want to be there. And anyway, one of them said like, why are bothering teaching us this miss? And I said, because if you're going to be a hairdresser, you probably need to know how much bleach or how much of this product to put in, et cetera, et cetera. And she said, nah, why are you bothering? We're just going to get pregnant and get a house. And when I tell that story to audiences, it creates a variety of reactions. Some laugh, some feel very uncomfortable. that experience, that day, that story has stayed with me for over 20 years. Because do you know what I actually felt when she said that? I mean, beyond disbelief was just sadness. Because I could see how much potential was in that young woman and in the room. and that a belief was going to be the trajectory for her life. Now, nothing against, like my best friend had her first child when she was 18 and she's a great mom and she's beautiful young woman. like, there's not judgment around when people decide to have children. But for me, that belief was not an informed decision. It wasn't an informed belief that was like, I've always wanted to be a mom. This is why I want to be a parent. It was coming from a place of like someone else or some, some other influence had said to her, this is my only option. This is my path. And, and I meet people all the time who have belief, self-limits beliefs. And like you, I'm very open as well about the beliefs. I'm also regularly working on myself and it's, it's such a shame, isn't it? But also create, it's exciting because These are things that can open up our potential ultimately. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's I run into people like that all the time as well. And in your case, it those ladies and yeah, I can relate to that feeling of sadness when you have a conversation with someone and it feels like the limiting belief that they have internalized has basically made them like give up on themselves. And I see that a lot, you know, with other people with disabilities, like you say, and, and, know, through genuine hardship or like pain or like the situations that they have to navigate, which are hard, they've just decided, Hey, you know what, like, I'm just going to live a small life because that's all I'm capable of. but I also think that We all have ups and downs, again, going back to the thing of no one ever really makes it, which is why for me, community is just so important. And I know we started off by speaking about community through that speakers mastermind that we were in together. But again, I feel like that's another practical takeaway is sometimes just removing yourself from your default environment and just putting yourself in a new space. where people have different ideas, different ways of thinking, or people are maybe doing some of the things that you would love to be doing. So in my case, like I mentioned earlier, one of my goals was to be a speaker. so initially just putting myself around Toastmasters, even when I went to Toastmasters the first time, I never wanted to be on, I didn't feel ready to be on that stage. I just used to go in and sit in the back of the room and hope. to God that no one had asked me to say anything. Right? But then eventually over time just through being in that environment, speaking to a few people, someone said, hey, would you like to one day like share something? said, you know, yeah. And that was simply from a change of environment. And then even like from a relationship perspective, a couple of my closest friends, they got married. really young, like in their early 20s, right? And I knew that's something that I wanted, not necessarily to be married young, but to have a relationship and a family and those types of things. And so even being around them was an inspiration because I could see that they had worked on themselves. They were like being intentional about meeting people and going to events because sometimes single people complain that they're single, but they don't actually go out to meet people. So even things like that and seeing what worked for people in my circle then became something that I could use as a resource when I was trying to build that kind of life for myself. So I think that's a couple of practical things that people can consider. And also sometimes just limiting the naysayers like and put in some distance between yourself and that person who is always discouraging of your ideas. when, for me, a test of a good friend is someone who, even when you come up with the most wildest idea, they'll be like, okay, cool. so how are you gonna do that? Like, they help you think through it versus someone who is always like, shut you down, wet blanket, oh no, I have someone who I have a cousin who did the same thing and they went bankrupt or they lost a ton of money or like it was really difficult, they became unemployed, they struggled. So it's just finding those people who are more like that first friend who uplift you and who encourage you. It doesn't mean that you're always going to be successful, but you're always going to be in a position where you want to try stuff and experiment and You know, life, I've come to realize in my old age now, a lot of it is about experimentation and using your gifts in different ways until you find a way that sticks. I don't know if that's been my experience as well. Yeah. One of the best pieces of advice, I guess, on the podcast that I've had from any guest was rather than thinking what's the worst that could happen. which is a quite and something I've lived by when I've had to make scary decisions. I've always gone right. Worst that happens, it fails and then I can do X and then I've got a plan B, a plan C and a plan D. But actually this guest shared something which is really profound and it's actually really changed my way of thinking. And it's what's the best that could happen. And when you start imagining the best, you sit in a completely different energy and frequency and you get You start smiling, you start getting excited, you start imagining yourself. And if you, if you listen to any of Dr. Joe Dispenza's stuff about attracting what you want in your life, he talks about imagining it's already happened, like how would it feel? And I think what you just shared is probably the most fundamental, valuable little piece of gold, which is anything you're trying to achieve or any kind of self-limiting belief you're trying to overcome or any goal that feels completely impossible, working on yourself is the first place to start. no, that's been my experience. And also, the other one I would add is just making your goals fun. So kind of moving away from like this goal is big and scary, like from fear to fun. And you could be working on something like really boring, let's say like a business plan. I don't know if people still do business plans nowadays, but like, can I make that fun? Maybe I like listen to my favorite playlist while I'm working on this, right? And that gives me like a little boost of energy, right? Or maybe I invite my best friend who's also working on something and we work together side by side and we have a laugh and a giggle. as we get these things done, right? So yeah, through working on yourself, first of to become the best version of you, but then also as you're working through different tasks that would typically be, let's say, not as exciting as you're building the bigger thing, finding ways to make those fun and make those feel like less of a chore, I feel like is jet fuel for what you're trying to achieve. Definitely. ⁓ Winston, I know we could chat all day. So I'm going to, I'm going to kind of bring this podcast episode to a close with the question I ask every single guest, which is what is your number one positive habit that you use regularly that keeps you in a high performing state? I would say my number one positive habit is... Ooh, there's a couple. Today I'm going to say it's probably visualization. Yeah. So whether I'm speaking on stage or about to have an important phone call or meeting, I like to visualize, like you were speaking about earlier, the best case of what that could be. And I find that when I visualize that scenario, whether it's me speaking on the stage and the message really landing, the message really resonating with the audience, people whatever it is, like clapping or all the questions that come afterwards are really meaningful. And I feel like they're making a difference for people. That really helps me to be better also in how I prepare. And then I would combine the visualization with a spiritual practice. for me, it's prayer. praying to God and almost praying over that vision and saying, hey, like God, make this vision a reality for me, like help me to prepare in a way that allows me to be equipped that I'm able to deliver that experience to my audience. whatever the thing is. I'd say visualization in combination with prayer. Yes. Love that. Love that. I'm excited to, I'd love to see you speak at some point. think we've all been talking in the chat about different events and it would be, I think we need to do an in-person meetup at some point in the not too distant future. Yeah, I'm going to be in the UK in a few months, I'll definitely let you guys know. Okay, okay, that would be amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with us, Winston. I think it's, I feel really blessed that our paths have crossed and look forward to following your journey and hopefully meeting you at some point in the near future. Yeah, no thank you for this opportunity as well and excited to stay connected.