speaker-0: A quick one before we get into it. Today's episode is brought to you by All Things Better, my own supplement line. So you already know I'm not going to bullshit you about it. I built ATB because motherhood rearranges you. Preconception, pregnancy, postpartum, perimenopause. Your body's asking for different things at every stage, and most supplements on the shelf are stuck in a one-size-fits-all model. Iron you don't need, fillers you can't pronounce, doses too low to actually do anything. So I formulated three products that actually hold up clinically: natal support, iron-free, methylated folate, built for pregnancy, and preconception and postpartum, stress and sleep support for the nights your nervous system won't switch off and better immune for when the whole household is coughing on you at 3 a.m. Every formula is vegan, gluten-free, and made here in Sunny Queensland and dosed properly. No gimmicks, no label claims. If you want to feel less like you're running on fumes, head to allthingsbetter.com. That's all things better. Links in the show notes. Welcome to Barely Balance, the podcast that's mostly healthy with a side of chaos.

speaker-1: We're your hosts, Catherine Hay and Shelly McKenzie, both qualified nutritionists and mothers, and around here we're all about finding the sweet spot between green smoothies and wine night, kids' lunchboxes and grown-up dreams, wellness hacks and real life mess.

speaker-0: Whether you're knee-deeping motherhood, navigating hormones, or just trying to remember where you left your coffee, this is your space. Expect real talk, expert tips, bally laughs and the occasional overshare.

speaker-1: So grab your matcha or margarita and let's dive in. Cappy, today we are talking about a recent event that has happened to you and happens to one in three women here in Australia. And that is a miscarriage you experienced. So we're going to talk all about the lead up to this. Obviously, we have shared a lot about your extended conception journey and unexplained infertility. So, no doubt this was a massive shock. So, can you take us back to how The fact this occurred.

speaker-0: Well, a man and a woman have to have sex. So I've just learned because I got pregnant with RBF. With Goldie. ⁓ okay, what a wild turn of events. Wild. And one I never expected to be in. I'm nine months postpartum. I'm breastfeeding Goldie. That's first and foremost. And I think when you get to about eight, nine months, you've Finally feel like you're not coming out of the fog, but I guess so. You're kind of coming out of that postpartum haze, you're finding your feet. I'm feeling a bit more confident in my body, my brain, my ⁓ physical, mental, and spiritual state, I guess. And we'd just gotten back from Noosa. It was Sunny's sixth birthday. We had one of our best friends' wedding. And for some reason, I wanted to do a pregnancy test because I was supposed to get my period while we were away. And I had spotting, so I thought it was coming. ⁓ but nothing really eventuated. Now I just have to preface with I have had sex once postpartum. Once. and which I thought was well and truly out of my ovulation window too. I didn't ever for a million years think this one time at nine months postpartum was going to lead to a positive pregnancy test, but here we are, or here we were, sorry. ⁓ so I did a pregnancy test on a Wednesday and it came back with a faint positive. I did another one afterwards Asha consulting with Hugh.

speaker-1: Yeah. You sent me the text. First it was the message, I'm going to do a pregnancy test. And I was like, not a chance. Out out of this world. This isn't even a possibility for you. And then you sent me the first one. I was like, nah, can't see anything. Yeah. You were like, is it in my head? Yes.

speaker-0: And then I sent you it again.

speaker-1: Yeah. And I was like, ⁓ you need to go get another pregnancy test

speaker-0: So I did another one which wasn't as obvious. And then I thought when I looked, re-looked at the first one, there was clearly a faint line there. And then I was like, you know what? I've got three tests, I'll do a third once I've held on to a Wii for about four hours. So that was my goal. So I did the third one on that same day, and it was positive. Now, in my brain, I started spiraling very, very, very quickly. How, what, fear? dread, confusion. It brought immediately back my secondary infertility air quotes journey so quickly to the forefront, which I guess for me I had never actually processed. Yes, I fell pregnant with Goldie and I had the pregnancy, but the whole pregnancy, as many of you know, you you you're pregnant. You're not thinking about your infertility journey. You're thinking about, I just need this baby to be born. I want to make sure I'm doing everything in my pregnancy to have a great pregnancy. You're not thinking about processing your infant infertility and air quotes journey. Goldie's born, you're in postpartum. Again, I'm not processing the last years of what it took to get her here. So when those positive pregnancy tests were in my immediate forefront of my mind, it all flooded in. And I just thought, wow, there's a lot of unresolved. Trauma in air quotes again. I don't think it's not massive, massive trauma, but it's definitely a trauma. because how in the world has this happened from one time out of my ovulation window, I am I am pregnant naturally. So me being me, I ordered myself a HCG and went down to local pathology place and got a blood test just so we could see what my HCG was doing. So I got those results back in 24 hours and it confirmed my HCG was at 14. So early pregnancy, positive pregnancy, but still in that range where it anything could happen, essentially, because we'd ideally want to see that doubling pretty quickly. So I did another HCG on the Friday. In between that time I felt so much fear. I can't even begin to explain the fear I had with a positive pregnancy test. One, I know my limits. This postpartum, I have honored my limits about my recovery, how I'm showing up to work, my boundaries, how I am as a mother to both of the girls, how I'm showing myself self-respect. Honoring my mindset work, my healing in different other areas of my life. I've really tried to honor as much as I possibly can. So when I got that positive pregnancy test, I I felt like this is not part of my plan right now. This is not part of my plan. I don't understand how or why the universe has decided this is part of my plan now. I'm not physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually ready. For pregnancy. But then the flip side to that coexisting at the same time was this is a fucking miracle. This is a fucking miracle. Nick and I are pregnant naturally from one time. We were having sex multiple times across ovulation windows for years, trying to get this pregnancy test. So there was this huge part of my brain too. This is the beginning of life, this is a miracle. Everything happens for a reason. I'm just gonna get thrown into the cha chaos of three children. But then that would quickly diminish and I'd go back into fear. I can't do it. That means new house, new car. I'm nine months postpartum. Is this the end of my breastfeeding journey with Goldie? Because at that point in time, she just started refusing the boob as well. She would be arching her back off me, ⁓ not breastfeeding. It's like she knew I was pregnant even before I did because she did, she did. She

speaker-1: Weaned the day or not weaned, sorry, she started refusing, wasn't it? The morning off before you went and got the pregnancy test. She started refusing the boob before you even knew you were pregnant. Yeah.

speaker-0: Which I was grieving that too. I was like, how dare this pregnancy rob me of my breastfeeding journey with my baby? Because I have been so adamant that I want to get to 12 months breastfeeding with Goldie. So that and my baby literally arching her back from me, screaming, not wanting to be comforted by her own mother when I am Goldie's comfort. She wants, she goes to me over anyone else. So that was devastating. So there were so many emotions all at once in such a pressure cooker. so, you know, there was a lot of conversations with Nick, and I think one of the biggest things that was really challeng challenging for me was his reaction to all of this. He's always been, I want two kids and and done. But having Goldie, we even said it, I think we said it on the podcast before. It was day three in the hospital. We said, ⁓ we'd have a third. But you know, you as time moves on, you kind of look at your situation and your quality of life as a family of four. And maybe a third wasn't in our immediate plan, definitely wasn't in our immediate plan, but maybe in the future, who knows? but he was really upset. You know, there's a lot of tears from both of us, but especially him, ⁓ a lot of what ifs, this is a miracle. silver linings of wow, we got pregnant, can we do this? The fear, the huge amount of pressure and our lifestyle change. ⁓ with a third, all of these feelings that we were trying to unpack whilst having our two little girls around having no really much time. The only time we'd have was eight PM after the bed bath and routine had been done, to have these conversations when we're both physically exhausted. And that even felt Quite, I guess, challenging to navigate because we couldn't sit down and just have a couple of hours on our own to really talk through what was currently happening. so then Friday came around and I went and did another HCG. And it was when I got home from that blood test, I put Goldie down and I went to the toilet and I wiped and I sent Q a photo. And you did, which is our relationship. Yeah. Nothing's TMI between us. No. I sent Shell a photo of the toilet paper because it was ⁓ light pink and I said, I think I think my decision's been taken from me anyway.

speaker-1: Yeah. And at this point we had seen that HCG reading of fourteen. And I remember saying to you, Cap, if this pregnancy goes ahead and for anyone listening who's looking at a HCG reading, Cappy was five weeks ish at this point. So it was a very low HCG. And I I remember saying to you, with a reading of fourteen, there's every chance this isn't going to be viable. Yeah. And then yeah, it was the next day, was it? Yeah. The next

speaker-0: Okay.

speaker-1: That you sent the blood and you were like, It could be implantation, it could be this and we we didn't know. But then more came.

speaker-0: No. No. Yes. So it took though that was probably around, I don't know, midday or somewhere in the afternoon, and then everything stopped. And then I

speaker-1: Sorry, just quickly. Again, anyone who's listening and I hope you're not if you're first trimester, but bleeding or spotting or having some pink mucus first trimester is also very common. Yes. It does not mean that a miscarriage is coming. Sorry, just to preface.

speaker-0: I guess we should probably say this episode comes with a trigger warning. Well, yeah. Yeah. so I had the pin spotting, and I also had that on the weekend prior. So that was evident to me. That's why I thought I was getting my period. So I wasn't really sure. I didn't want to, you know, go too deep into those feelings. But anyway, fast forward another five hours, I was standing in the kitchen with Goldie on my hip and I just felt this massive gush of blood. And This was the start of my pregnancy loss. And I remember sitting on the toilet and I showed Nick. And all I felt in that moment was relief. Was this sheer relief of Thank you. And I know I can talk from it now because I never in my wildest dreams thought I would ever feel this way going through a pregnancy loss in that first immediate reaction with my journeys to my girls, especially Goldie. and then soon as I felt that huge amount of relief, I felt shame for feeling like that. I felt immense grief for feeling like that, but then for also losing the baby, the pregnancy and the what ifs, the you know, you know, you do start mentally going, okay, so the baby would be due here and this is what this would look like. And you know, you do have those thoughts. You look at the future and you kind of pre-plan those things if you were to, you know, go ahead with the pregnancy as well. So I'd had all of those thoughts. I did not want the baby though. I did not want to be pregnant at nine months postpartum because I was not I'm not capable at this point in time in my life with everything else that is going on to feel like that baby was really wanted.

speaker-1: You know your limits. Yeah. You knew your limits.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. So it doesn't take away the pain of going through a pregnancy loss. It was horrific. I totally underestimated it. I remember bleeding and bleeding, and I thought, ⁓ it's fine. I'm an endometriosis girly. I could really talk myself out of it. This is what happens. This is a trauma response that I was saying, you shell, that I've realized that I that I do. And this started when my dad died six years ago. And it's only now been connecting the dots. When something traumatic happens to me. I disassociate, I leave my body, and I view myself as a main character in a movie, seeing things unfold. And I said to Shell, I've only just come back into my body two days ago. So this all happened probably last week. Last week. Yeah. So eight, nine days ago. So I

speaker-1: When Wednesday. Yeah.

speaker-0: immediately felt that feeling again like I was leaving my body and I was witnessing all of this take place, but I just downplayed. I'm all good. It's just another endometriosis bleed. ⁓ I can handle anything. I've seen horror shows with my period. I've had really bad period pain. I've had flooding before. It's all it's all going to be all good. Soldier on cap, soldier on. And I didn't really have the space. I'm got two girls at home and I've got a baby who is so reliant on me, who was refusing the boobs. So that was really stressful. so I was heavily bleeding for a couple of days and it wasn't until the Monday of this week that my world kind of came crashing down. I was day three of the pregnancy loss and I had to go pick Sunny up from school with Goldie on my own, isolated. I hadn't had any time on my own to process any emotions, but I was feeling a cascade of emotions very ferociously. quickly and to the point that's why I would leave my body and just have to witness myself as the main character because I couldn't process things in real time. I couldn't compartmentalize one emotion to another. Everything was scrambled. Everything was just happening at a really fast pace because I still had to move on with life and be a mother and show up to work. And there was no time for me to sit in whatever I needed to sit in. So Monday came along And I had to take Sunny to her OT appointment. I had to pick her up from school with Goldie. And I was walking into OT and Sunny's teacher had been messaging me about her being disruptive in the class. And the OT was there trying to take Sunny and she was talking at me and they were trying to organise other appointments for me in the OT. And Goldie's crying on my hip. And I just feel this almighty sharp pain and another huge gush of blood. And again, I disassociate, left my body, everyone's talking at me. I don't even really remember being in there. I said, Yep, whatever you need to do, just do. And I just walked out. I just walked out with Goldie. Sunny went to into her appointment, I believe. Called my husband. I said, You have to go pick Sunny up in an hour from our OT appointment. I'm feeling terrible. Something bad's happening here. And I got really dizzy, headache, thought I was gonna faint. I had to sit. get Goldie home and drive myself home. So I drove myself home and I'm bleeding out all over the chair of the car, all through my clothes. And I walked in, went to the toilet and I pulled down my pants and this is ⁓ quite a lot of information, but whatever I needed to pass from that pregnancy happened in that moment. And it's I have seen my fair share of bodily tissues and things with endometriosis in the past. This was just this just hit a different level. This hit and I just was dry reaching. Goldie's just standing, like sorry, sitting there looking at me in the toilet. I'm just a mess. There's blood everywhere. It was or it was horrific. It was such a horrific point. And I just thought that was then when I really acknowledged, ⁓ wow, you've just lost the baby. This was the tissue from that pregnancy. This this was this feels really big. This feels really big. And I just sat on the floor with Goldie. And I couldn't move. I couldn't move. I couldn't do anything. I was so fatigued. I was wiped. I was exhausted. And that's when I just felt the weight of it all and the immense grief. And so many women go through this in silence. So many women go to work and have to show up going through something so traumatic. So many people Don't get a day off work, or we have to mother and we have to show up to our children going through horrific events like a pregnancy loss. There's no time to process emotion. There's no time to understand the mental and physical burden of what's going on. not just even from the blood loss, but the f the other signs and symptoms: the dizziness, the fatigue, the insomnia, the anxiety, the dread, the all the myriad of emotions that you can feel in a split second. And Nick came and got goldy and took her out. And I just remember lying in bed just numb, just so numb. No a really emotion was present in that time. And all I wanted was a few hours on my own just to kind of sit with it and move through it, journal whatever I had to do to kind of move through that. ⁓ I should have probably have taken myself to ED that day, but I didn't. Because I soldiered on, like I always do, and which in hindsight was not the best move, but I did. The bleeding substantially decreased, so I knew I was okay. and yeah, I only stopped bleeding yesterday. so that was seven six days of blood loss. And I'm booked in for blood zinc scan next Tuesday just to make sure everything has settled, but you're not, you're dealing with so many hormonal changes as well. Breastfeeding, hormones, postpartum, like your nine months postpartum. And then obviously the changes in your HCG. So you've got pregnancy hormone there. So it's just a monumental cascade of events in such a short period of time. So many feelings all at once. and it was And it still is. I think I'm still in a level of of sh of shock. And I still have got a lot of processing and healing to do around this because of how much it ignited my IBF journey. And I I think I haven't processed that fully until this minute when this pregnancy was taken away from me. Even though I didn't necessarily want it, it was still taken from me. And it's just Really demonstrated to me how crazy the last week has been in life events in reproductive health. I feel like I have ticked every almost every single box in some type of reproductive journey that a woman can go through. And I got on my stories yesterday because the biggest take-home from me is I will not stop talking about women's health. es especially reproductive health because we are supposed to our symptoms or whatever we're going through need to fit in this neat little box by the medical profession. ⁓ it's just a miscarriage, you'll be right. Take some neurophin on your way. You'll be fine. ⁓ it's just pre-cancer cells on your cervix. Don't worry, have a let's procedure. You'll be fine. There's no days off for you. ⁓ you've got endometriosis. No worries. Take some period pain, go on the pill, shut down symptoms, suppress, suppress, suppress. Can't talk about first trimester of pregnancy because it's taboo, because if you lose the pregnancy, that's taboo. That's taboo. There's just so much stigma around all of these different events, whether you get recurring UTIs, trash, bacterial vaginosis, anything to do with women's reproductive health is so taboo and stigmatized. And I just cannot. I just can't sit still with that. I can't sit still and not be a voice for women. You and I have sat across the screen or room from countless women in this situation or situations that I've just spoken about, and they have not been heard, they have not been seen. Their symptoms are brushed under a rug and put in some generic box that we're all supposed to fit in by the medical profession. And we're just supposed to soldier on, carry the weight of the world on our soldiers, mother, parent. Show up to relationships, show up to work, and just get through the day. You can tell I'm passionate. I'm probably yelling through this microphone.

speaker-1: Good. Yell it. It's true.

speaker-0: It's just bullshit to me. It's bullshit. And if I can't be a voice for all the women, and I don't mean to gender stereo stereo gender, you know what I'm trying to say. Who's gonna be a voice for them? Who's gonna be a voice for anyone who's going through any type of reproductive health care at the moment, which comes with so much weight, so much weight on a woman and how she shows up in society? How she shows up in her community, how she shows up to herself, her children, her partner, her friends, her colleagues, all these areas. And I'm just sick of it. I'm fucking sick of it. And it's just another area of women's health that's not spoken about enough. And I just I just, yeah, get emotional, but I'm just not. Going to tolerate it.

speaker-1: Hallelujah. No, I mean, yeah, it's it's true. Yeah. It's true. I I shared a story with you earlier about when I experienced pregnancy loss, it was at thirteen weeks before Vam. And at eight weeks, I was extremely fatigued. Like so, so fatigued. And I had lost the baby's heartbeat at this point and didn't realize, but I had when I finally had the miscarriage, they said the baby stopped growing around eight weeks. Anyway, around that time I'd gone into work and I had a male boss in a staff meeting say in front of all of my fellow colleagues. And I should say that I was in the health professional working as a nutritionist and all of my colleagues were health professionals, including my boss. And he said to me, Shelly, what's up with you? You've just lost your spark. Like I don't even know why you're here. You're just not showing up in the way we want, you need to change this, or basically you're out. And at this point, I still thought I was pregnant. Mm-hmm. Hadn't told ever anyone because I thought I was just going through first trimester, not mentioning it to anyone. Because you're not allowed to. Anyway, ⁓ pregnancy ended in pregnancy loss. And so and that was at 13 weeks and it was traumatic. And I went into that boss and I said to him, the reason

speaker-0: Yeah, 'cause you're not alone

speaker-1: I have lost my spark is because I was pregnant, but I've actually just lost that baby. And he was like, ⁓ I'm so sorry. I was like, That's okay, I quit. Yeah. I was like, this is ridiculous. So I hear you. Like it's yeah. It's just it's awful having to go through these things. And, you know, Cappy, I guess for us. We have that responsibility of sharing these elements of our lives and advocating for women's health. So we actually do get to speak about this if we choose to. And we get to be that voice for so many women. But but as you said, like so many women are carrying this or carrying the angst of first trimester, terrified that this is the way it'll end. Even though, you know, it's one in three. But it's just it's so much for a woman to carry and and so many women have been through. pregnancy loss and never spoken about it. And they don't have that voice to speak about it. You know, it's just it's it's heartbreaking.

speaker-0: Yeah. It's so heartbreaking. And when I was vocal about it and finally shared my story the other day, my DMs were flooded with me too. This is how many losses I've had and I've never been able to articulate it. That happened to me in the first trimester and I lost the baby and I was eight months postpartum or I was five months postpartum. It's like so many postpartum mothers have fallen pregnant in that first year of postpartum and lost the baby because realistically our bodies are not ready. To carry another child. So it can be really common. And there's probably a a big statistic there of pregnancy loss in the first year of postpartum because of the major hormone changes. And I'm sure a lot of pregnancies actually make it full term as well when, you know, being pregnant in the first 12 months of postpartum. But it it's just it and again, that really highlighted that all the me to's, all the thank you. For helping me make sense of my situation, which I couldn't make sense of. But hearing how you voiced it and the mirror of emotions that you were feeling, because we're allowed to feel dread or or sadness or wow, this is too much. Cause of where I was at at that point in my time in life postpartum. And you can't just package pregnancy lost entwined with so many other elements to this is my story in particular, into one little tidy feeling. It doesn't exist. All these feelings coexisting simultaneously together is what I've had to sit with and be okay with that. Because I think when you hear of any pregnancy loss, people just think, ⁓ so much grief. And I have had grief, but I've also had relief. You know, and that's something that has honestly been the hardest thing to sit with.

speaker-1: No.

speaker-0: Because of the shame of feeling that.

speaker-1: I know, and I said to you when it happened, and you said, I feel so much relief. I said to you, and again, I don't want to sound insensitive to anyone, but I was like, This was right for you. This was what you needed to experience because you wouldn't well, not was what you need to experience, but it was right it was right for you in that moment because of the relief. Yeah. And I said that because I fell pregnant eight months postpartum with Lenny. ⁓ sorry. From Lenny's postpartum with Audrey, and it was an accident, a beautiful one now. But even though I felt overwhelmed in that moment of like, fuck, three under three, like how are we gonna do this? It never, it was a different, like you and I were feeling such different things, you know. And I wrapped my head around pretty quickly, because again, like I knew I wanted three, but also I hadn't struggled with infertility. So for you, it was just this very complex, struggled with infertility, didn't even know your body could conceive naturally, because Sunny was a miracle as well. Tried for so long with Goldie. Then Goldie's refuse in the boob. And then she started breastfeeding again just before you miscarried. So she knew you were pregnant and knew you were going to miscarry before it even happened, which was why. But there was just like so much wrapped up in it. And then that relief, I was like, even though this is so

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: hard and shit and so difficult to go through. It was right for you in that moment.

speaker-0: Yeah. And do you know the biggest relief was my baby's breastfeeding again? I the thought of that being the end with her was just tr I get teary thinking about it was just so devastating for me. It was. I didn't want that to rob me of my journey with Goldie. Yeah. And that experience with her because I never got to breastfeed Sunny past eight months. 'Cause she's self-weaned. So even getting to this point with Goldie was such a milestone for me and such a special moment to still have with her. So just knowing that that part I could still continue our journey together without it being, you know, cut short with such a positive out of something so devastating for sure.

speaker-1: Sure, but again as well, like you saw on the H C G that it was low and we had the conversation about this probably isn't gonna be a viable pregnancy. So you also knew that this was probably gonna result in a miscarriage, but you still had a baby that was refusing you. Mm-hmm and you're like, But what happens if this does result in a miscarriage and my breastfeeding journeys also ceased by then? Yes. Because that could have it's some women like will lose that heartbeat, like me, for example, and it could be five weeks before they actually experience that pregnancy loss. So you were kind of also like the but it was like so many what ifs if this is resulting in a miscarriage, how long is that gonna take before she's back on the you know there was a lot of emotion wrapped up in this.

speaker-0: It is yeah. And when I had that second H C G done on the Friday, I didn't get those results until the following Saturday, twenty four hours. So I'd started heavily bleeding by then. ⁓ haven't I? No. No.

speaker-1: I don't even think you've told me what those results are No already all they're at twelve because you'd already started bleeding by then. Yes.

speaker-0: Only dropped by two though, which was quite fascinating. Yeah. They hadn't dropped by much. No. No, not at all. ⁓ for that kind of significant blood loss. So that's why we'll obviously get another HCG ⁓ on Tuesday because if there's any retained product or anything like that, I hate that term retained product. I know. Bad like miscarriage. I hate that word. Yeah, I know. Retained product. Hate that terminology. Mm-hmm. That's why I try and refer to as pregnancy loss. But, you know, it is what it is with the medical terminology. But yeah, it was twelve. So again, we knew it obviously wasn't doubling. It should have been up in the hundreds by then. But it was just the complexities of those feelings have just really Yeah, they just destabilized me. And I think I'm I'm still it's still very raw and real right now. So I'm I'm definitely Not a hundred percent. I'm bone deep fatigued. I'm ti I'm so tired. The brain fog is extraordinary. I'm really trying to rebuild, nourish, nurture, and heal from this. And I'm still trying to make sense of all of this because of my infertility journey.

speaker-1: Yeah, and I think so much of it as well was why is the universe giving me like what's the universe trying to tell me? I reckon you said that to me maybe five times.

speaker-0: Did I? See I don't even remember. Yeah. What's the lesson here? What's

speaker-1: lesson here kept saying and at one point and I think it was after we got the HCG and I said to you Cap, maybe the the lesson here is that your body is not broken and you actually can do this. Your body can fall pregnant. Doesn't mean now needs to be the right time, but your body also isn't broken. Maybe that's just what this lesson is. Cause so much of you at the time you were like, but what's the universe telling me? It's giving me another baby. I must have to have this baby. And I think you were like struggling with the thought of the universe has given me this, so I should want this. But at the same time I'm breathing the breastfeeding and it was just it was it's just cop complex. It's so complex. And it is for everyone. Yeah. You know, and that's where I I just said maybe this is just the universe's way of showing you that this is possible if you want it to be in the future.

speaker-0: That's it. And having that glimmer was something that I've really held on to as a healing tool with my coping strategy. Because do you know what also happened to me? I don't even know if I've told you this either. So a week, so Wednesday just been. So that was the day so I'd been pregnant, found out I was pregnant a week ago on the Wednesday. So this Wednesday just been, where it's Friday here, the day we're recording. I get my IVF email from Monash IVF. Hey, Catherine and Nick, just your six-monthly ⁓ payment reminder for your three embryos in the freezer. All in the space of that week. So not only have you just gone through a positive pregnancy test, a miscarriage, and all those feelings that we've just talked about, then Monash IVF decide to send their email reminding me that I pay a fee every six months to keep. My other little babies in the freezer, they're frozen. And it's just like, don't forget about us. We're over here in the freezer. Hello. And that was just so crazy. It was like the domino effect. I was like, that's the third thing that has literally happened in the space of the week that my brain is trying to process the anomaly of everything. And then that email just arrives because in your brain, you're like, I just felt relief. I just felt this. I just felt this. And I've got these three embryos in the freezer at IBF. Should I what what what what should I do? Sh what what's going on? Am I playing God here? Am I playing God? I'm not even fucking religious, but what am I doing?

speaker-1: Again, at one point you said you brought up those embryos to me. Do you remember? No. So, and again, we'll cut this if you don't want me to talk about it. It's obviously a cloud to you. But at one point you brought out up those embryos to me and you said, But if I can feel relief for this, why should I still have those? And you hadn't told me about that money. So that was about that payment, sorry, coming through on the Wednesday. So that was. Prior to this, I had to say to you, no, Cap, these are two separate different things. Just because you're feeling relief in this moment doesn't have anything to do with whether you should keep those embryos or not. Yeah, like they're two completely different things. So and and like again, this is just like the enormity of something like this. It goes so much deeper for women and individuals than just the pregnancy loss itself. Yeah. You know what I mean? There's there was so much coming up for you in that in those moments. Yeah. Even down to the embryos you had on ice. Yeah. You were questioning almost if you were even deserving to have them because you felt relief.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. And I think with those embryos, I I have always thought if I was going to have a third baby, every part of that decision was going to be in my control. I would have gone into that with a strict preconception for protocol. I would have been fit. I would have been emotionally ready. I would have gone in and had a

speaker-1: Hundred percent.

speaker-0: transfer on my own terms when I wanted to. And obviously anything outside of that is out of my control. But it was going to be planned, thought out, spoken about in depth with Nick and I for probably months of 100% having really in-depth conversations, not an hour here on a Wednesday night when we've just found out we're pregnant, another hour here when the girls are asleep on the Thursday night. ⁓ I better quickly call him when he's at work. And I've got five minutes while Goldie's quickly having a nap. That's how our conversations were had in such a short period of time before I lost the pregnancy. It was just, it's all, it was all just too much. And it's in those moments where you just want to shut down, turn off everything, and hibernate. This is when I miss home. I want to go home. I am going home, going home next week for two weeks. Because I just, I just need space. I need some space away from my family. I need some space away just from my children for a few hours, just so I can really process, process, process and process, because I can't I'm so emotionally aware of my feelings and how they impact me, I guess, with a ripple effect later on in life. So I have to have that time and give myself that grace and that empathy to process properly. So I don't need to hang on to this. I don't this is a thing I always thought, ⁓ I'm out of that preconception. I'm out of my infantility journey. I'm done with that. That door has been shut. That's in the past. But this unraveled that. And I think there's a lesson in that that you've got to process these things. Yes, you've got your beautiful Goldie and she's here. And, you know, I'm just so besotted by her. And it's the best thing ever. But I didn't, I didn't process those years. I didn't process the IVF. I didn't process the needles. I didn't process that trauma. So this is. This time for me do that.

speaker-1: Maybe that's just a lesson in it all.

speaker-0: Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

speaker-1: Thank you for being so open and sharing your journey. And if you're listening to this and if you too have been through pregnancy loss, we truly hope that you have a support network. You're able to talk to people about it. Our DMs, we're always here. But thank you for sharing your personal journey and being that advocate for women's health because God knows we need it. Thank you, darling.

speaker-0: And if you're going through it, just know we see you. Yeah. We see you. Our DMs are open. ⁓ you're not alone. You don't have to be alone. You don't have to isolate yourself. You don't have to sit there in silence and try and make sense of it. 'Cause it none of it makes sense.

speaker-1: sense. And it won't. It won't it won't, you know. So yeah.

speaker-0: That's the thing, you try and look for these glimmers and these well, you know, silver linings. And I hate silver linings. If anyone's been listening to this podcast for a while, you would know that.

speaker-1: And I'm the queen of Souvalines.

speaker-0: But you do, because you're trying to make sense of it, but when you actually strip it back to its bare bones, it doesn't have to make sense. It is what it is. And we don't have to put all this immense attachment to outcome. But I think just being in the feelings, every feeling is valid. Regardless of the outcome. And you've got to go through those feelings. You can't just bypass them. Yeah.

speaker-1: Absolutely. So find your safe people and talk about it. Yeah. Don't go through it alone. All right. Love you. Love you.

speaker-0: Yeah, don't go through it alone. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much.

speaker-1: Listening. If you have enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave us. That way we can continue to inspire and educate more mamas around the globe. If you would like to get in contact, request a guest or a topic, connect with us on Barely Balanced Podcast Instagram page and send us a direct message. Otherwise, until next episode, stay sane, mama.

speaker-0: And leave us a review.