Aaron: Welcome back to the Izzy Right Though podcast where we have today's guest on, will be a Metropolitan Police Officer. Correct. 20 years and one year in Queensland Police. Her name is Lauren Cogland. Thank you very much for coming today. Thanks for having me again. Again. Yeah, that's right. We've already gone through this once. We're going through it a second time. We've gone through some really in-depth things that are on the Instagram handle, which is the Izzy Right Though Instagram handle. So anyone wants to check those out, ask any questions, we can go about that from there. We will touch base a little bit more. We'll go right Right over your background, right through your, I guess, metropolitan police experience, and then you'll move to Queensland. So again, thank you for coming on. Firstly, we're gonna go into the fact that you are, and I detect that British accent. However, Little Birdie tells me that you may well have been an Australian-born resident. I am, yeah. Tell me about that. born here, born and bred, True Blue Aussie, as my father would like to to refer to me. The only Australian born in my family. grew up in Sydney, moved from there and left in nineteen ninety-seven. No ninety seven. So you were still in your schooling days then? What were you a teenager? Okay. And then that dreaded move to and I say dreaded because you have a friend network. I moved at a similar time myself, from the country to the coastal lifestyle, but still in Australia. You're moving all the way overseas, which is a dramatic change, especially as a teenager. We're talking in a day and age where we didn't have social media, mobile phones. So the ability to keep in contact with your friends and that network, make it that that little bit more dreaded to a degree. Well, it was pen and paper. Yes. Yeah. Pen pals. Yeah, pen pals. Yeah, that's all you had. And that took a lot of time and effort, let's be honest. So after a a while that drops off and you unfortunately you pick back up when Facebook You unfriended them in the world before Facebook. Yeah. Yeah. Accidentally. I would have kept in touch, but it was just yeah. It was long. And especially sending no doubt the letters overseas and that extra bit of delay and then sending your response back to another day. I mean, by the time it got there, it was like six weeks later and so much had changed since then. It was really a little bit pointless. Yeah. Yeah. I got it. So what part of was it England London? Where did you move to? So I I left the Hills District area of New South Wales and moved to initially I w I stayed with my auntie and my little cousin with my mum. It was just me and my mum at first. my the rest of my family stayed here for I think six months and we moved to a place in North London, Islington. And that's where we tried to get me into a school that it didn't really work out too well. And by not working out, just it just wasn't what you were used to, your type of fit. Well in the nicest term to put it, I was definitely a minority in that area and it was quite a new thing for me to understand. So When I turned up it was this particular school next to Holloway Prison and there was barb wire around the outside, C C T V cameras, very confronting from someone who'd come from a a normal, average Australian high school and yeah, I'd never seen anything like it and turned up and I was definitely the only white female person there that I saw when I was on a a walk around of of the school and I remember a group of girls sucking their teeth at me and saying, What are you looking at, bitch? And I was like, please don't send me here, I'm going to be killed. So very intimidating. Yeah, it was intimidating. I mean, I was so far from that sort of lifestyle growing up initially. but I I'm super grateful that I did have that experience of being in London. now that I look back at it and think, what a what a life that that's has changed for me. so yeah, we didn't go to that school, we went to another place and that was in an area called Essex. Yes. And that's where I ended up moving to. Gotcha. Okay. And that was like our permanent place that we we lived in. And you I guess made that friend network there, a lot more comfortable and went through that side of things. Yeah, I went to school there. Okay. Yeah. Explain to me or describe to me how you would do explain yourself as a teenager, as a schooling person. Were you an academic, sporty? Where were you at there? Sad to say I wasn't anything. You weren't anything. I wasn't emotional. I was I mean, I had my group friends, but I was like one of the middle of the row kids. and I think I've always kind of been that. I wasn't like super smart. I wasn't super sporty. I struggled when with eyeball coordination if my i it like if if I remember yet. is that the what is that the term? my god. I was just terrible. I was Yeah, not good. I wasn't one for knowing for known for my sport and ability. Okay. But I gave it a good go. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then we progress past schooling. And we get to the end of schooling for yourself. Where did you want to go from there? Did you have an idea this is the career I want to hunt down and do and fulfill? I want to go to uni, I want to go to things. Tell me about that next process. Okay, so what I did next was I went from secondary school, which is that term over there. and I I think I only did two years. So I've like remember high school was quite a different stage of life. And at the age of 15 that's quite difficult. especially me turning up completely different to anyone else that that goes to that school with an accent. Because so I I did have an Australian accent when I arrived and I was called Skippy for a for a long time. Which was strange 'cause now I've reverted back and I haven't got that accent. But from that period, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do 'cause th th the school system's completely different to here. but I had the choice of going to your local college to do A levels, they're called, the the like your higher level exams, or you can do diploma courses. Okay. And initially I chose to do a travel and tourism course. and then realised it wasn't really for me. from that point I joined a course for it was a diploma in public services. So I did all to do with the government and all emergency services, learning about military, all that sort of thing. It was it was good. Right. So you went down that path, had a little bit of a I guess a taste or an idea of what it was potentially going to be like and decided You know what? Policing might be Well, kind of. First I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I I did an exam, an entrance exam as part of my course for the Navy and then flunked that and I was like, dear, that's not good. These I thought these abstract reasoning questions are quite difficult. So I I gave it a go, but initially I thought, maybe I wanna be like a communications technician on a submarine, but then I realized no, I get C sick, so that wasn't gonna be it. and then I thought I wanted to be a firefighter, but there was a guy on our course that he was the fittest person I knew and I thought if he if he didn't pass, then I wasn't gonna. So I got a bit d like deterred from that. and then it wasn't until we had a trainer, one of our mentors, he was a an actual working police officer. He worked for Essex police service and he was really, really good and and said, look, if you don't want to go to uni, you don't want to waste a load of money, you know, incurring student loans, then you can join the police service and they'll they'll actually fund some of your courses that you want to do, whether it be criminology or or anything like that. And so that was the path that I actually chose and and something did work out for me. I did do some studying alongside the police whilst I was in that. Okay. Yeah. So we've decided that's the way to go for it. Now before we go into the I I guess the process of that, I need to step back considering you've come from Australia. Mm-hmm. You've moved over that way. Let's talk in your language football. We call it soccer here, football. You were correct in how you said it. Okay. Yeah. team that you supported. Okay, who's listening? My dad? no. I suppose if I'm honest with myself, it was all it's always gonna be Spurs, Tottenham Hot Spur. I worked in Tottenham for a long for a long time. He used to go and watch the games there and Yeah, I used to enjoy support in Tottenham. However, you did just say depends who's listening. So there's a bit of something going on here. So we got a secondary team, do we? No, no, no, no. My dad's a lifelong Chelsea fan. So when I growing up, when I first started school, I had I had a Chelsea bad actually sewn into my blazer. Ooh, okay. Because you had to wear blazers and ties and stuff. And I remember in the inside pocket I'd sewn a Chelsea badge to show that, you know, my allegiance to them. Right. But then boys came along and that's when everything changed. Gotcha. So if we go back to the Chelsea days, yeah. Can you remember a player specifically that jumps out at you from that time or error? Yeah, and put you on screen. Okay, okay, okay, you are old guy. Bald guy from Chelsea and that's all you've given me. Nobody was really putting me on the screen. Not someone in the fullbacks with the initials JT that might be. John Terry, yeah. Okay, I'll help you with that one. All right. So let's move forward. Let's jump into the Tottenham team that you're mentioning there. Yeah. But you also mentioned boys. Bo yeah, boys were a problem. Boys because they went for Tottenham you decided you'd go for Tottenham. Well I had a boyfriend. Gotcha. He although he supported many teams, his main one was Liverpool. but we used to go to Tottenham matches. Yes. So Tottenham was my team. I think I I went on my eighteenth birthday because I remember vividly having the Spurs shirt with the number eighteen and Loz on the back of my shoulder. Oz. Yep. And that was a nickname you were given at school? Yeah, for my little brother actually. Along with Skippy and Skippy, yeah. Potentially smart. Okay. Yeah. Now I'll put you on the spot before we move forward as well. I've got you to mention a Chelsea player there. Give me a Tottenham player from that day and age. God, we needed to prep him for this. Look, all I'm just gonna be honest, the only person I really had a massive crush on and he wasn't even his first player, was Michael Owen. And as a male I had a crush on him too. His skill his skill set was ridiculous. He was very, very good back in the day. He was Liverpool, wasn't he? And then eventually went to Men United. Mm. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Okay. So I can yeah, I understand that crush. Yeah. Yeah. And who do you sport? Aston Villa, the one the only. I don't get it. You're an Australian. But I cast myself as a bit of a royal too, you know. really? Yeah, yeah. Just floating around there. Yeah. Fair enough. Aston Villa, which was very against the grain in Australia. You had Arsenal, Liverpool, and United supporters. The top three. So no one jumped on that bandwagon then like my son has these days. But that's how it was. But I went against the grain. We had SPS. Yeah. That's all we got. We didn't get the live feed for our local games on weekend. We had NRL. Back then. So it it fed into Australia. So SBS once a week highlights, that's what we had. And I immediately hated West Ham because they had the same colored jersey as us. So when I'd watch the highlights, I'd be going, Yeah, you beauty, we've had a win watching the goals, only to realise it was West Ham. Yep. so I was very happy when they eventually got relegated because that's our jersey there, our colours back off. Same goes for Burnley and everyone in between. That's the real jersey. Moving forward, I could talk about that all night. Yeah. We go through the process of Deciding, you know what? I'm gonna give this policing side a bit of a go here, a bit of a nudge. Yeah. Talk to me about the process you're applying, where it goes from there. Okay. it's really gonna I'm just gonna interrupt. It's gonna annoy me so much that I can't think of this Chelsea player. But anyway, we digress. It's stuck in my head. so the process was I left school, sorry, I left college. I knew that I wanted to apply. And I think I had started working for the HMRC, which it was like a an admin talk type role working for the tax office. And it was just killing time, but it was my first salary paid job. And I just remember desperately trying to hurry up the process. And unfortunately, as recruitments seemed to go, they lose your application. And that happened for me. So it was a bit of a delay, but by the time So I think I had to do an entrance exam and an interview. And the interview was at Tachbrook Street. And very, very nerve wracking when you're you're sitting in there and you have a panel of people and they're they're asking you some questions about why you fit the bill. Technically. The bill. The bill. The bill. The one the only knowledge Australia have of I guess the Met Police, yeah. Yeah, correct. and that was, you know, I wonder if that's where the saying comes from. Potentially. Someone will know. Yeah. Yeah. so yeah, I gave them my my best and I think it did the trick 'cause they selected me. And you sat in front of a panel of people that I'm assuming were police, potentially a civilian, in line in that office with them? No idea. They were all in suits. I remember that. very, very nervous. I learned a hell of a lot before I went in there, made sure that I knew as much knowledge as I could do about the politics that were on at that moment in time, who the mayor was. I remember my dad like, make sure you know who the mayor is. Yes. did that come up by chance? do you know what? I don't know. I don't know if it did. I just remember trying to give them some life experience. Absolutely. Because I was so young when I joined. it was two thousand and three when I actually did. So I think I was around twenty. And I remember I was about twenty one when I left. So I was young. Absolutely. Yeah, young and I wanted them to remember me. So I I did tell them about a a si an incident where I was in school and I came across a a man who had actually died in the market one evening when I was coming home from from school and that just so happened to help me out really in my interview 'cause I had a bit of a life experience of coming across, you know. An incident Absolutely. Yeah. And you walk away from that going, I don't know how it felt for me. And I guess you're waiting to potentially get a call or a letter as to whether you're in. Yeah. Well, thankfully they told us on the spot. Really? Yeah, yeah. We were we were well, that we passed. Yeah, actually they they did. They told us on the spot. So I remember being in the room and they selected a handful of names and told them all to rise and and leave the room. And at that point you don't actually know if you've passed. You don't know which the worst. It's the worst because you're sitting in there and like Winners and losers. Am I am I the loser? Yeah, yeah. Or or what? So yes it was not fun being. Do you remember how many were there roughly? I reckon there was probably about thirty or forty. Because you do you had to do like a written exam. Yeah. So it was all in one day. Gotcha. Like smashed you with aptitude. Aptitude tests, your written exams, you have to watch a load of videos and find I think it was like a a written exam of of spotting where the things were. In all honesty, I can't remember because it's so long ago now. But yeah, it was f it was an intense day. but thankfully, right at the end of the day, we got told the good news that we were the lucky ones in that room. And when you said they split them into two different groups, do you remember if there was one larger group? Was it a larger group of the losers or the the losers, so to speak? I couldn't tell you. I was just like Yeah, I was just focused on them coming back into the room and telling us the news. That's all that's all I can remember. But it it it felt like a good half if I if I'm honest. Yeah, I remember I think it was a good half. Yeah. Yep. So you couldn't really t tell it either way. And talk to me that experience afterwards. You're being picked up, are you? Are you headed home? How what's who's the first person you tell? Put about it. So my mum bless her, she had waited all day outside for me. Okay. and this was London. This is Touchbook. Street we've lived in we lived in Essex so she'd come with me on the train and waited outside and I just remember like vividly calling my dad And telling him the good news that I'd passed and him shouting down the phone like he's English but he sounded the most Australian you could ever in his life by saying, You little beauty. Yes. And it was like dad. Yeah, it was cool. Okay. Yeah. So we've got through that first step, that process. That's fine. Yes, we're in now. We know we're in. However, reality hits. That's not the turn up. Yeah. Off put. Dad was like training me and he'd come and knock on my door. I'd moved out when I was nineteen. So I think I applied when I was eighteen, moved out at nineteen, living with my boyfriend at the time. And I remember him he wor he was like a night worker, a permanent night worker pretty much. But he would come and knock on my door fright and early. It's like up Come on, we're going for a run. And he would drag me out of all hours to try to train me ready for going to the academy. Lucky it's really warm over there, hey. my morning. my god. Did I Rose and face, throat, nose, everything. And like I said, like I wasn't like the most sporty person in the world. And everyone who knows me will agree to that. But Like it sucked. I'm not gonna lie, it sucked. The only thing that helped is you knew you had a focus and a breeze to the train and that's why you Yeah, you have a goal in mind and you focus and you get it done. Yeah. Yeah. So we fast track, we go to that first day. We've been given our location where we're off to. Yep. Starry eyed, pumped, excited. Explain that first day to me. that was the thirty first of March two thousand and three, turning up. It was a Sunday. Gotcha. it was Hendon. In the old academy, they don't have it anymore. It's been knocked down and was actually used on a film set for one of the Avenger films. So it no longer exists. So you were at I was at during the time and Yeah, before it's been knocked down since. But yeah, so I was there. It was it was awesome. Yeah. If you remember it, and there's gonna be plenty of officers that will remember it, it was it was great. You had a little bar as well. In in the academy, so you go down to the bar of an evening. There's plenty of academy stories. If you hang your towel out, not that I did this, but if you hang your towel out the window, it means you're ready for some fun. Right. There was some Okay. Under under the whole place there was like these like a maze of tunnels underneath. The buildings. Right. Where they did some extra curriculum like you do All right, I made that sound vulk. So no, no, there was there was classes. I remember we had to train and do death messages down there. Right. But they there were classrooms, but they were leading from one of the blocks to the other and they'd also have laundretes. And that was where I think some people not me, because I was a good girl. Would run back and forth and meet up with other people from different blocks 'cause there was girl blocks and boy blocks. Really? As you can imagine. Okay. I'm sure there was some debauchery going on. I have no doubt there's all sorts of activities. So again, anyone that has any information on that will be put it forward. And I'm I was a good girl, I'm just gonna say. A good girl. I was a good girl. Yes. so yes. It was a great time. Turned up. With all my gear, you know, all your bedding, ready in your tiny little room, you had your sink. That's all you had. You had a like a single bed, a sink, a mirror, your own little room, shared bathroom. And little ironing room. So you could do go and do your iron. So a common door or a separate bathroom altogether that you're into. Ever like a common bathroom. Yes. Yeah, you couldn't you didn't have your own. Okay. No. Yeah. It was pretty cool. How long were you at the academy for? I think it was eighteen weeks all up. Okay. My graduation day was the first of August. And remember that. I'm assuming. There was a bit of parade, a bit of formalization there. Mm-hmm. How are you as a bit of a marcher? Tell me about that experience. God no. No? It was an experience. Yep. And they were super strict back then about the polishing of the boots. Yes. I don't know it wasn't the same when I did QPS Academy, but far out, you had to sit there and polish your boots every single night. And the I don't even know what he's called, but the guy who did the marches, he took that so seriously. So talk to me about that. you're going every morning at the academy, I guess you've got your group, everyone's in different groups. Again, I can only go off Queensland there. Yeah. But you have dress parade in the morning. That's right. Where you have potentially an inspector, someone coming through and inspecting your facilitators, having a look. Yep. Individually, one by one, walking past, looking you up and down. Are those birds shiny? Where's that at? As a male, I had my head shaved, little crew cart. No beard, obviously, because it was just too hard to keep. I was just a young star, 23 year old, didn't want to do anything wrong, upright. I couldn't shine a boot to save my life. I don't know if you did this, but I would put a bit of boot polish on there, then I had the cigarette lighter. No. No, see I wouldn't have that's that was me. No, I s I did the work. Yeah, gotcha. I was shortcut and I was like Yeah, I layered that bad boy. So you had him epic. they were good. I thought they were good anyway. I didn't cheat and like spray paint them or anything like I know some people do. Okay. But no, I spent the time. Did you ever have any issues on dress parade at any stage? Here I did. Here? What about backhand? There. No, 'cause I was so prim and proper and good. No. No, I was so good. Yeah, I was. I was. Like I tried. And you come to Australia as a bad ass and went. Yeah, I got told off of my earrings here. So Okay. Naughty girl. So that's that's that part of it. You then finish the academy, you've marched out with the amazing march and the salute and everything you've done. It's time to go, I've got my badge, we're on. Yeah. You've been given your station. I have. And my station was Leighton. Leighton. Leighton in Francis Road, E ten, that's East London. it's just off the central line at the local Leighton Orient. Do you know of them? I do not. That's the actual local football club. Really? Yeah. Okay. And what division would they be in now to really test you? I don't know. I don't I genuinely don't know. They were low. I know they were. Gotcha. They weren't great. They're just waiting for their Ryan Reynolds to pop over and purchase them. Yeah, gotcha. Correct. Okay. but that was the the local football team. so my borough was actually the borough of Waltham Forest. The shoulder number that you wore was JC, Juliet Charlie. And that covered Leighton, Leyton Stone, Chingford and Walthamstow. That was your district, so that was my district. It's completely changed now. the it's a bit like Southeast regions, that sort of thing, how they do it here. but back then it when I passed out, there was thirty-two boroughs divided into from from London and each of us had our shoulder numbers for that area. Okay. So mine was Juliet Charlie 223. That's what I wore. Okay. And that's just your individual one or is that everyone in your group? No, my individual one. And then you would have your individual call signs for when you went out. So it's slightly different for the QPS. You don't have your own relative number. So you would you've got your Regio here, that's your employee number. Yeah. But you would also be given your warrant number. so I'd still have a badge number and a shoulder number that were relevant to me only. Okay. Yeah. And the first year again I can only touch on Queensland, so I'll let you explain this from the side of things. Yep. Have you got a field training officer a book? Tell me about that experience to let's say finish your first year. Competencies potentially, anything like that. Okay. So firstly, your probation is actually for a two year period. Two years. Yeah. Okay. So during that period you have a set book that you've got to complete. It's called I think it was called S D something, but it's it's just a book of competencies that you had to complete. And explain competencies to me. They so you have types of jobs. Different types of jobs. that you've experienced that you are competent at that you've attended. So whether it be a sudden death, a car accident, giving traffic tickets out, missing persons reports, the various things, domestic violence, the list goes on and you can imagine it's quite a hefty book that you have to complete. And I remember not really having a full understanding of of that when I was at training. Maybe I was away with the fairies a little bit and thought the academy was like the be all and end all. And then when you left that although you would have these workbooks to do, it wasn't gonna be as much as it was. And I remember not enjoying my first couple of years. I thought it sucked this this whole workbook, this competency thing. And when you say competencies, do you remember one that you finished ahead of the others due to the, let's say, the calls for service, the continual jobs that you went to, that you went, I'm competent at this one more than others because of how many times I attend that? I don't think it really worked like that. Didn't work like that. But what what I knew that I felt comfortable in was certain areas that I still feel comfortable in now really. And their mental health jobs, dealing with domestic violence, sexual offences, that sort of thing. I always felt that they were my strengths because I I I like talking to people and and I take my my time doing that. and I probably have that empathetic approach that some people don't have. Building that rapport. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's correct. What I didn't like was traffic. I and I still don't really to this day. I hated it. Yeah. That wasn't something that I really enjoyed doing. and yeah. That was probably something I tried to avoid if I could. And you said you're in probation for two years. Yeah. How does that go as far as driving a police vehicle? you can't. Yeah. Okay. You're not allowed to drive a a car for for the first two years. Right. So you did driver training at the academy though, did you? No. No, so there was no driver training. No, okay. So y y the way it is here is completely different. Gotcha. At the academy you'll learn legislation and your officer safety training. And you're given your handcuffs, your ASP, which is also known as your button here, your C S spray, so your O spray O C spray. O C spray, your Caps capsic I can never pronounce that. spray. And then I think that's it. Okay. Yeah, and your radio. Which you could use to smack someone if you need Yeah, okay, yeah. Well you and I'm glad you touched on that because exactly that. The weapons you had were that's as good as it got. Yeah. my understanding is the Aspat and as you said, cap skimp spray handcuffs. Yeah. And you had to sometimes use that radio. That's it. That's it. Yeah. That's all you had. And you had your vest. And that's insane to think of as someone who'd done fifteen years in Queensland. It's insane to think of that that's the only weaponry you have there. so With that side of things, that really means you have to rely heavily on your ability to communicate, build that rapport and de-escalate situations so that If worst come to worst, it would only require the equipment you did have to get yourself out of that. That's it. and I'll be honest, like I only spent four years in uniform and I did another bit in a youth engagement team role where back in uniform for a while, but I knew quite early on that uniform wasn't really my strength. Yeah. Because I had like this desperate need to know what the outcome was of the end of a job that I was dealing with. Yeah. but I knew my strength was talking to people and in uniform you you don't really have time to do that. As much time as you would like, right? Going from job to job. Going from job to job. CAD called to the next and it was very, very different the way we worked there and you were working off the MDT. that's like you How do I explain it? it's like a computer system in your car and it would just feed out your jobs and it was so busy, so so busy that really you'd go back. It would it wasn't like how I feel it is here where you'll go to one job, then go back to the station right up. No, no, no. You'd be going from job to job to job to job to job. At the end of the day, you would go back and then you would do your paperwork and sometimes you would get off late because of it. But here's slightly different. And with your time probably as well as mine in the earlier days, the way things are here now in Queensland anyway, people have iPads. They're able to do things on the run. And if you're at a job that you are going to be at for a while, you can already start your partner. Yeah, that's right. For me we had a notebook, then we had to, like you said, go back to the station, put your reports on. I'm assuming very similar for yourself in that way. Well no, we didn't have we didn't have iPads. No, no, neither did I. just had a notepad. But and then had to go in at the end of the day. Yeah, that's it. That's right, yeah. So you would pile up that work and you'd have to share it out. But the way it worked, if the driver was there, you'd be you'd be the writer. Especially as your first couple of years, you'd be doing all the work. Writing and radio. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's all we had. God, I feel old. It's why are you doing this to me? It's scary to th think back on. Yeah. Yeah. Jobs in general. Now I I've touched on some very in-depth things that happened in your life that again can be found on the is you right though handle on Instagram that are very in-depth things that occurred in your personal life because that's something I think is very important from a policing perspective where people forget that we are everyday humans. So you're potentially already carrying some load from your personal life that you have to put aside, push down, turn up and be that police officer. Are there and give a hundred percent at jobs? There, you did have some significant trauma that occurred in your life that you pushed forward with. Yeah, tell me from your end how you're able to remain positive, turn up to a role that let's be honest, with policing, there is a lot of trauma, a lot of dark times that you see and witness. How are you able to overcome and progress forward positively? I I think for me, the police in general, I mean I didn't touch on it, but the police in general had an impact on my life that I wanted to to follow through with that, like push it forward almost. so Here's a little story about me prior to me even joining the police. But back in New South Wales when I was a child, I was a bit naughty and I did some shoplifting. I shouldn't have done that. and I I obviously I I I know I was a bad girl. but I I shoplift with a a friend of mine at the time that I shouldn't have been hanging around with and I was arrested by police and they took us back to the station. But that impact that I had with those two male officers, where they were genuinely nice, they were they treated me with respect, they weren't horrible to me in any way, gave me an understanding that police aren't scary. And and that the the way that that interaction it it left a lasting remark like lasting mark on my life and I suppose that's always what I want to do when I go and deal with a job. So whatever has happened to me in my life and my trauma that I had, I didn't want to leave a lasting mark on somebody that in a bad light. So for me it was really important to always give my best to th to somebody. And you just don't know what's going on in somebody else's life. And so Yeah, my life was difficult, but the ac the job actually gave me what I needed in those dark moments, which was just to focus on something outside of myself at that moment because life was difficult. 'Cause at the end of the day you still go home and you still have to deal with your own stuff as well as turning up and being present in your job. And I I wanted to still be present in my job and I Like I was so early on in my career, like I think I was one year down by the time all of these things had started happening to me. And I didn't want it to be the end of something that I was really keen on on thriving in. So I've I give things a good shot and I try to look always on the bright side. And I I like that bit you mentioned before where it was a focus away from things going on in your life. That's exactly how I looked at it. Two different things that were happening in life. Yeah. I was able to, you know, I get in the car, I switch off, I get out at the station, I'm a different person. Yeah. I different mode of me. I'll deal with that after after work. Some people carried their load to work. I was the opposite where that totally new job knew me and could inundate myself with work, which We touched on before off camera, but I probably burnt myself out a bit too much where I took that work home with me to potentially block out what I was in instead of dealing with reality, I would deal with that other side being work all the time. Which I think for a lot of people it does happen, but how would you describe yourself in that way? Were you someone that took your work home or you were able to leave it the moment you left the car park? so I can answer that like From my early career, I definitely took things home. But now I s I definitely don't. Yeah. And it's it's it's different, for me. Early on in my service I I remember even waking up getting a pen and paper and thinking that I was hearing like the radio going off and trying to write a regro a car down. And I was like, I'm half asleep. Stop, stop. And like go to sleep. Cause night shift screws with your head. And my brain was constantly going, thinking about stuff. and I I took a few jobs home with me as well that that have stayed with me forever. and but I learnt early on that if you don't Don't deal with that, then that can go very, very wrong for you. And I've tried quite hard not to to take stuff home with me again. It does occasionally, don't get me wrong. Every now and again I'll think of stuff, but I now I don't know why, but I'm able to switch off from it. Yeah. I've taught myself that off experience to it. Yeah. I've taught myself that you shouldn't be carrying something that you can't control. Okay. So let it go. Love that. And hopefully that, you know, could potentially help some of the new ones that are out there. Yeah. otherwise you end like me, burnout, seven years in GDs. It happens to it to a lot of people though. It really does. Because you you also want to not lose that momentum and drive that you've got. Yeah. It that especially happened to me when I moved here. Okay. I really struggled with the pace of life here compared to England. It's so fast there. Everything is so fast. And when I got here, I was forced to change and slow down. Gotcha. Okay. And I I can't tell you that it's actually quite worrying back home how fast the pace of life is. You everything is at your fingertips. You go into the supermarket and you you scan and go your items. You don't have somebody packing your shopping, which you still do here. It's everything that you want, you can have at your fingertips by ordering something on Amazon Prime and you'll get it within the day. Yeah, right. Everything is quick. You come here, that's not not how the way the world works. And It used to infuriate me. I'm not gonna lie, the first six months that I arrived in Australia, I was like, What have I done? Gotcha. Okay. What have I done? And then you're forced to understand that the world works different. Everyone gets up at five AM and you're all like, I don't wanna go up anywhere near it's cold, it's freezing, it's horrible back there. Yeah. At five AM. Yeah. I know that firsthand. Yes. if we were to go on You did twenty years in the Met police. Yeah. Are there any particular jobs that stand out to you still to this day from there? Yes. any you wish to speak about? Yeah, I can speak about them. well they're they're jobs that I'm proud of. and and the ones that I I took home. So I'll just speak about one because it's it's probably my most proud job that But also I don't know how it's affected the the actual person that this crime happened to. And and that's something I'll I don't think I'll ever know. But so one job that I had, I was a sexual offenses investigator, called a SOA officer. And within that role you're deployed within the golden hour of when a rape offence is reported to police, it's called a type two. job that comes over the radio and it's it's my role as a sober officer to attend that location and speak with the victim to ascertain who what where when how why or what happened to the to that person and to get as much evidence as I possibly can when it comes to forensically anything that's on her or him. and to obtain as much as I can in relation to the offence and the suspect. And this particular event that happened was in Tottenham in a nursing home. Okay. where older people lived and this female she was in her eighties and she was deaf unable to sign because she had lost the ability to communicate by sign language because her community, nobody signed with her, so she really struggled to still use her sign language skills. she was a devout Catholic and she was also a virgin. Wow. Who had never h allowed herself to be intimate with anyone and she had been horribly raped by a 22-year-old man and in the nursing home in the nursing home. Yeah. Okay. and nobody knew because she couldn't speak. Because her vocal cords aren't there. So even when she's scrying out she's deaf. So you can barely understand what those noises are. And she was beaten severely also. So when I first met her, that was in the hospital. And in the hospital I was able to to communicate with her in different ways. I had done a sign language course within the Met Police. They paid for it because at one stage I worked in a unit called the Jigsaw unit and we had a registered sex offender that was deaf and I'd sought a a course to see if I could learn it, basic skills, so that I could converse with him, try to build a rapport with him. So I'd had out my own time, but paid for by the police, learnt some sign language and I had utilized some of those skills, although she couldn't really sign too well to me. I still was able to communicate with her in that way, but also by written notes. And you can imagine this was time consuming. She was very, very injured. tried to get an interpreter arranged, but that wasn't really gonna work at that time, just trying to get the first bit of information that we could from her. But I did manage to get enough of enough of a description of the person who did it. And it just so happened to be that when I relayed that information back to the officers that were at the scene, there was quite a crowd that had developed around the area and they spotted the person. So he was carrying a backpack. and based on the information that I passed on, they arrested him and he had paraphernalia in his bag that linked him to the offence. And later on I sat in that interview with him, which I think for me, probably the hardest interview that I've ever done in that I'd spent so much time with her. She was such a tiny little woman as well. Yes. and that I it it I struggled not seeing my own grandmother in her because my nan is Irish and and so that was r really, really hard to keep my cool. And that was probably the first time that I felt pure anger. Yeah. Within my very emotionally invested from start to finish of that. Yeah. Yeah. in the end, end result was that he pleaded guilty based on everything that we had, but we had to do a number of interviews with her. we do video recorded interviews for sexual offenses in the UK. They don't do it here and I feel like it should be utilized here because I feel like it would be so beneficial for everyone. But it's it's something new within the the QPS But I had to do a number of video recorded interviews using interpreters. I think I did three or four in in total, but all trying to not re-traumatize her. So they were all just trying to further the evidence that we've got in order to not put her in front of a court. If we could get as much evidence as we could and him just plead guilty without having to be put through the whole trial, that was our our big biggest goal that we could go for and thankfully we got that. So he was convicted. It also transpired that he was a registered sex offender from a different area. Okay. so he was someone that needed to be off the streets for sure. Yeah. and in the end I think she left the UK and moved back to Ireland where she was originally from. But yeah, I'll never really know how she is, but yeah. It was probably one that I took home with me. But I'm I'm very proud of what the result was in the end. Yeah. And I'm assuming from that it really paved a potential further career opportunity for you or somewhere that you went, This is where I want to be. This is my passion in policing. This is what I'm made for. I'm gonna zone in here and focus on this specific Yeah, so I I wasn't technically in uniform at that time when I was on that job. I was in a unit called the Sapphire unit. they've had multiple names, but it's a it's a great place to work because the people that work in that unit really care. And They are have so much passion for keeping men and women safe of sexual violence within the Met Police. And I'll always be proud of of working within that unit. And it was a huge passion of mine. Sexual offences has been a huge passion of mine. It seems to be a niche that I've fit quite well into. but I feel like not all men, but a lot of men struggle with that sort of work environment. not only because females might not feel comfortable if like dealing with a a a victim. But I don't know, I was always able to sit across the table from registered sex offenders, a different unit, but under the same sort of umbrella. But I was always able to to not let it disturb me to the point where I couldn't do my job. Yeah. And it's a a niche in niche like environment to work, but I couldn't do jobs that other people could do. Yes. So like like I said, like my skill set is completely different to to what it is for someone else. I I know I'm not a general duties purebred. I I know that. I know where my strengths lie. so that's probably where I'm looking to go for later down the line. Yeah, okay. touching on the Met in general. That's obviously a a very impressive job there to attend to. Overall, did you have specific types of jobs that were a higher percentage to occur in an area? You were forever going to DVs and that's that is no different anywhere in the world I'm afraid. But the way we dealt with it, it wasn't civilly, so it's only criminal offences. we don't take any orders out. It look, I'm going by what my knowledge is based on the time that I spent there. But yeah, we would Take injunctions out or anything like that. That would all be w we'd have agencies working alongside us that could help with that, but that was not our primary role. Our primary role was to try and keep people safe, women safe, men safe that were being attacked within their their homes or d any sort of domestic violence happening with them, but it was only a criminal matter. Yeah, okay. Okay. And let's progress a few years on from there. Some things happened somewhere along the line you where you've decided, you know what, I'm moving to Australia. Well, I've always wanted to come back. Okay. Yeah. Was it the warmer weather? It was just I never felt like I belonged in the UK. Okay. Really hard to explain, but I was always seeking to come back. I had like this desire to come back to Australia. my brother lived in the Gold Coast. He loved it and That was why I ended up being here. And I can't think of being anywhere else, to be honest. Yeah, I'm happy where I'm at. So he was almost your tour tourism guy sort of thing. You were seeing his photos and going, This is me, this is where I'm gonna be. Especially the winter. And I've spoken to a lot of people. It might have been different for you because you did have your brother here. But when I talk about the Gold Coast people that are from the UK, they go, Broadbeach, surface paradise. They're just yes. What What was it? Was there anywhere in particular that attracted you that you can remember at the Gold Coast? It was the same. Yeah, it's that's the English feed that you receive. Algorithms. Well it well, it kind of was, but I also I came I came in twenty twelve with a girlfriend. We travel up the east coast, we hired a little camper van and we we did some travelling ourselves and I envisaged myself working there. Okay. To be honest. And lo and behold. I manifested my lifestyle. So yeah, it was it was good that that I was able to see it. It was completely different to it is now, but yeah, I wanted to to ride along the beach on a buggy if I could Yeah. Watch men in shorts. Short at the beach, yeah. No, he wants to see that. We I guess you you've d made that decision. You're still a Met police officer. You've got to decide how do I carry that role over? But that's not the case, is it? You come over Yeah. I say I was part of the pace course. Yes. But I was already here. Mm. But within I think it's a five year period, if you're over here anyway, then you can still be invited on the peace course. So my qualifications were still fresh, even though I'd retired, technically I'd retired in twenty twenty two and I didn't join Cupes until twenty four. Twenty four. So I was within that time period. Gotcha. And at a time frame that pretty much Queensland is desperate for police. So that aligned really well as well. It did. It it worked out well for me. I feel that they could do be do better and I'll be bloody I'm trying to be diplomatic here. Hmm. I don't know if I can be completely actually. But you're talking the recruiting process now. when you say better, what are where are we touching base on? It's there there appears to be a pace and mainstream officers divide. Yeah. That I it's still there. I remember it. We had some UK police when I started my first year. UK? Yeah, it was. I'm trying to think back. We sorry, we had UK, but then we had from interstate were classes Pacies as well. So they came W A different other things as well. And There was there was quite the clash because some people were and I'm not saying it's everyone, but some people were stuck in their ways and go, We do it like this here. Yep, that's cool. But we're in Queensland now. There is something you need to learn or adapt to here. Yep. I love it in that way. But there was sometimes a clash in legislation that instead of putting a hand up going, I need to learn the Queensland way, it became this whole yeah, we do it like that here. Yeah, but you're not there. Yeah. That's not gonna hold up in the courts. So at times there was a bit of a clash there. It was the same as the people at left the army. we can't we do it like this in the army. Yeah, that's cool, but this is policing. So there was at times a clash. So I can completely understand and relate and I'm not taking sides here. I am no longer a police officer. There are no sides from my end. But no doubt. See I can see exactly what you're saying. Yeah. But what people fail to understand, and I'm gonna try not to get my high horse here because obviously I'm Australian by birth. Yeah. but I joined the police as a pace officer, knowing that I've got twenty years experience of particular knowledge, right? from there. And y your legislation is based on on ours. And I'm not saying the UK is everything, but ev like as police officers we still know the basics. Right. Okay. How do I say this in a nice way? Is this gonna be shots fired? What do we gotta It's not shots fired. It's more I don't feel that there needs to be this big thing. Us in that system. It doesn't have to be an us versus them because I don't feel that normal police officers respect the fact that we have actually given up our whole lives to come here. Yes, it was a choice, but trust me, the money that they give you is not life-changing. And you are giving up your whole identity to start here. And the the only reason we're here initially is the lifestyle, right? The fact that you have the weather, you have the possibilities of of having a great family life in Australia. That's the call to be here. It's to that you can have what you can't normally have in the UK for my instance or I don't know, anywhere else in the world. There's so many other people that are on the pace course. You've got Kiwis, you've got people from Germany that were on my group, can Canada, loads of different backgrounds. But the the drive really is to have the lifestyle, but you want to still keep your identity and and give back. Yes. And especially on the skills that you know. But when you get here, I'll be honest, you are not welcomed. And you're saying that from an academy purpose or from a general duties purpose. Yeah. You go in the academy and you are given. You're given a talking to. Yeah. And you are told if you don't like it, you know where the door is. And by that point you're like, Well, I've already I've committed. I've committed. I've sold everything in my life. I'm here. My family are are gonna come and join me when I've passed out. Like I can't just leave and you're not welcome. And that transfers through from day dot to back in your station, sadly. And It's a rude awakening for all. Big time. you're established already. You know your niche. You have to as silly as it sounds, you lose that niche to be stripped back to the general duties. you know, you get appointments as a detective or you get different skill sets, you come back, you start at the bottom again. You have to work your way up and I agree I agree to that to a degree. I agree that yes, you should have something to raise you in the QPS. Because the Academy, let's be honest, it isn't real life. It's there like you it's the Academy, like everyone knows who's in the police service. It's the same for when you I went to Hendon. It's it's Hendon life. Yes. Right? It's Oxley Life or wherever you do your training up in Townsville. But it's it's the same. It's not real world until you're out there, but As PACE officers, we should already have the basics. We know how to speak to people. So we don't need that. We need to know how to use your systems and we need to know how to use the legislation correct and effectively. And that takes time. I'd like to say in fifteen years these systems I still didn't have my head around. Don't even go there. every day I struggle. Every single day. They find someone to go, what's the hardest, almost impossible way to do this? This is the way we're gonna roll it out with it. And we're gonna make sure it soaks up so much of your time to do this so that you can collect stats. Yeah. Some people are proficient in it, right? And they thrive. And that's great. Others don't have that. And there are pace officers that I know that Aren't happy and they're looking for jobs elsewhere because they A, don't feel welcome, B, they know that they're told from the minute that they arrive, you're gonna be on tenure, you're stuck here for three years. Everything that you have built in your career, you can sit on that and hope that you'll get a spot elsewhere. And to me, QPS are throwing money, it's just throwing money away. Because you're employing people to do a role that they have so much skill. Yeah. And you're not billions of dollars worth of training. You're you're not utilizing it. Yeah. I know people that have already left that have like the highest skill. Like I would like if I knew the stuff that they knew in the areas that they knew, yeah. Like the knowledge is unbelievable. And you you've just It's just disappeared because they're not welcome. Would you say there's a bit of sort of it's intimidating potentially for them? There's the tall poppy syndrome where we go, Well hang on, you've got more qualms than me, I need to beat you down. I feel it every day, I'm not gonna lie. and it's not I I've already been completely honest and open that I know GDs isn't mine. Gosh. Isn't my skills I know that. But I know where my strengths are, so I'd happily interview anyone. I would happily deal with any sort of rape victim, speak to mental health. health. That is where my skills lie. And I don't feel Okay, I'm gonna be diplomatic in certain things. That's disappointing. There there is a grudge that I earn what I earn. Yes, you haven't come in at base rate that others are learning at. No, and they ha they have to teach me their skills, right? Yeah. So you have an FTO that will come in and they will teach me everything that I don't know, which is litch literally everything because I'm having to start from scratch. You're being paid to do But I'm being paid. Well not necessarily. It's not you saying it, it's me saying it. I have seen that. I feel it. I feel the anger. I've heard the comments. I've yeah it's it's received. Okay, received. Understood. Thank you. There's a lot of it in the police. Yeah but what what can you do? Like Trust me, if you put me in in the department that I should be in instead of General G's, you'll shine. I will shine and you your money is well spent. Which you will eventually be in. But it's the same for for all other PCs and That's my that's my two cents worth. And I'd love to, you know, have some of those pastes reach out and speak to you. Trust me, there would be plenty of pattern because they might come after they've left. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're in a a day and age and a hell of a state as far as how many police we don't have a quarter of the police we need in Queensland. You could have more per if you did the right thing. A hundred percent. We we've spoken off camera about just your station back in the Met having thirty people on a shift. And and that was back in two thousand and three. Yes. like it's probably I spoke to my friend the other day who worked in a different area, younger level of service than me, but he was a sergeant, and I said, What was your numbers? And I've switched off my phone to not be able to look at it, but I'm sure he said fifty. Fifty constables on each team on his team. Yeah. Three or four different sergeants plus your inspector within your team. Well. I'm telling but obviously our numbers are higher there. Like the population is higher. You need more. Absolutely. But still it the population is only gonna grow here. A hundred percent. And then you've got the Olympics coming. Yeah. If you want more people to join, you've got to treat them better. And you also need to treat the current officers better. Because it's not just about Pacies. I understand that everyone is burnt out from from D V. Everybody is burnt out. It's welfare in in general. the morale in general is not there. I started in two thousand nine. Retired two years ago now and the morale dropped off. And keep in mind, I was in a specialist unit. I left general duties in 2016 and went into a specialist unit from there. So we'd obviously go to jobs, we'd speak to your GDs that we would almost be their dear diary to a degree where they would unload on us the stuff that they were dealing with daily. We're hearing it on the radio, and we, you know, related to them and it struggled because we had to be in that area before we got into. specialist area so we saw it we heard it and it was awful there was a pattern there that was occurring and it was it was tough and so many of those over a period of time have gone you know what they've weighed it up and they've gone what this is doing for my personal life is not worth This any longer, I'm gonna look for another career, and we are looking at people dropping out by the hundreds. So as many as are going in, we're losing just as many. We can't retain. And there has been a significant issue with that over the years, and part of that issue from the hierarchy has been that after a certain amount of years, you are tainted property, so to speak, where you've got your own ideologies or methods or approaches, and you've seen ways that things in your belief should be done and they're not being. being done and you're being told tough titties, deal that suck it up, where now you're gonna be a puppet for, you know, whatever's the current flavour politically to adjust policing. And over a period people have questioned that, especially post COVID, and gone No. That isn't me. That's not what I'm going with. So I see it from that end. I don't know any longer with your GDs what's out there. So you can probably shine a better light on that as far as morale. Well, like I can't speak for everybody. What I I notice is the burnout from the domestic violence calls to service that we we attend a lot. and just overall I think people have fed up about it. but to me it's nothing new. Yes. purely because it was the same back home. It's the same wherever you are in the world. but maybe I've got a a brighter look on it because I had a couple of years off and this is all kind of new and exciting for me because it's brand new and I'm still learning every single day. and also I've also changed my mindset hugely. I don't focus on what's happening in the future. Yeah. Like I don't look at this is where I'll be in thirty years time because that's what I did in London. I was always focused on, okay, so it's this year I'll be close to retirement or whatever. I was always always knew I was gonna finish thirty for some reason. Thirty years there. Okay. Here, I don't know. Yeah. I'm just like if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And that Is the best mindset I could possibly have because I'm not handcuffed to my pension is what the term we would use there. I was always handcuffed to the pension there. It was so good, it paid so good, you felt trapped. Here I don't feel like that. I feel like yeah. Well, there isn't one, so that's Well, there isn't a pension, but I get paid very well. Yeah. And I know that whatever I do next, I want to be paid very well. But I don't need it to be the police service. Yes. Okay. And that's all I'm I'm focused on really. And having spent 20 years in the Met, you've come to Queensland, done over 12 months now. You've mentioned DV a lot. Yeah. The approach or difference in policing that you've noticed between the Met and Queensland. from everything as far as the operational approach to the types of jobs. How would you summarize all of that? Considering you did not have many accruchments in it, let's say point. You have all the things you mentioned before, plus you have a taser and you have a gun. You have a Glock here. Okay. And then if you're specialist, you have a rifle as well and other potentially ballistic shields and things. The fact in Queensland that you do have extra accruchments, how would you say the communication style is compared where you didn't have that as potential option if shit turned on you? Okay. So we're going from me not claiming to be the best GDs person in the world, right? But the good few years, the five years in total, if you're talking my service in uniform, I would say communication isn't their best here. Okay. not saying that there was officers that that had red mist back. back in the UK that I worked with that I know probably shouldn't be in the job that they they were in and made matters worse by the way that they spoke to people but I feel that that is is still here. It it there's still that the way that people talk to people, like officers speak to people isn't necessarily the best at times. But I'm looking at it from a lens where I don't know if it's just me or I'm a girl. Like w I'll speak freely about this with you because you're someone who comes from a a different background and you're kind of I don't want to say like military style, but you were PSRT. Yeah. So you didn't mess about. Right? Whereas the way I I like to work is I like to speak to somebody and Go in here and work my way up. Exactly that. Sorry, I'll touch on that because that's something that in my opinion, with all the training at the academy, that's something that really needs to be highlighted more. If you go in up here, you can't come back. No. You can gradually work your way up, treat everyone equally, go into it with a you know, a clear blank canvas. Yeah. Work your way up. You can always go up if needed. Yeah. If you go in heavy. You can't then work out shit, sorry, haven't we got the right house? Yeah. apologies, dust it off, keep going. You can't bring it back down. No. Gotta go up. So that's something I guess from your end, your witnessed it. I don't work with officers that do that on a a regular basis for sure. On occasion, maybe. luckily I have a good team. I'm I'm I'm grateful for some of the officers that I work with and they've looked after me very well, especially in the first year. And I'm the only female within that team, so I'm I'm lucky in that respect. But I've witnessed sometimes people being too hotheaded and it going a bit wrong and it not need to be. And if I'm honest, if I was on the receiving end I'd probably be going a little bit loopy too. Yeah. yeah. But fr like I I genuinely like to speak to people. and I go to I'm c I think I look I'm speaking from my perspective. I think I'm known as someone who can talk t to others quite well and I'm used for that on my team. I really think that I can talk people down. And I've had like a recent incident where I was told that I was very good, and that was a guy who was on the 34th floor of one of the high rises in the area that I work, and he was going to commit suicide. yeah, he was gonna jump off. He was on the outside of the balcony and He selected me as the person that he wanted to speak to and only me. And we were there for a number of hours, even with negotiators coming in. He was like, I want Lauren, I want Lauren and was like stuck on just speaking to me. And I mirrored him in the way that I behaved. I tried to minimize the way that I was. Like I didn't want to alert him any any way. And in the end I just said, Hey mate, I'm I'm really cold. Can you like close the door for me? I'm so cold. I was I think my adrenaline was kicking in at this point. I was freezing. Yeah. And the windows were opened. He's on the outside of the balcony and he listened to me because all it is just need to listen. That's what every person wants is to someone to hear them, someone to make them feel seen and heard. And the reality of that is, we're not going to your everyday person that's happy, go lucky. We're going to people at their worst. Yeah. So they're already in their own mind. They're their glasses overflowing. Yep. So you going in heavy-handed, hot headed, this is a waste of time. Here we go. I gotta rush through this, got other things to do. Yeah. When their cup, glass is already overflowing. is only gonna end in one one way. Well, I'm I'm not even lying. That day that I mentioned that, that was Father's Day. And I'd already dealt with someone that had jumped off a bridge earlier on that day and had to go to hospital. I think I did multiple EAs that day and it was just and that was ended in overtime. So I'd already had stuff that I had to deal with. on top of that. Yeah. And then have to cancel my own father's day to get absolutely 'cause he was helping looking after my children. So it's just your life doesn't stop, other people's lives don't stop. But you need to sit back in that moment and try to be there for that person in that moment. As a police officer, that's what you're there for. And it was something I was very big on. in my general duties days is I ended up as a field training officer, particularly I I got all the First years, one of the time. Okay. Which I hated dead bodies. I struggled with them a lot, which meant, you know, they needed their companies signed off so I'd go to a lot of those jobs. They needed to get their I guess their taste of what those things were like and learn the right way. So Bef on the way to a job for me, it was always listening to what was on the radio, talking on the way and go, hey, what are these potential scenarios on the way here? What do you think this could be? We've dealt with this person three times already. They've been this way each time. Doesn't mean they're gonna be like that this time. Yeah. Okay, so we need to treat that equally. What so basically your how I'd like to w go about it was have a bit of a plan before we get to that job already instead of, for God's sakes, we're here. This is the third time this week. I'm just need to get this out of the way, which is the mindset of so many. Yeah. And well it's easily done to fall in that trap. Absolutely. Yeah, it is. Exactly that. You haven't eaten. You've already got a whole heap of paperwork you need to do. You've been to this person this many times and you do you you're already burnt out from that. And with that is a trap that you can fall into from the moment you step out of the car. Yeah. You're not thinking right, you're hot headed. where you potentially park the vehicle before you approach the house. There's so many things that could be that 1% that potentially, let's say, pushed someone over the edge if it is, you know, a case like that, if it's an EEA potential. Yeah. There's many other things, disturbances, things like that. But what people, I guess, get very caught up in is that the word over the radio or the job is gospel. There are so many times it's the wrong address. Things have moved on. If you haven't got your mind switched on to that, your safety, your partner's safety, anyone else including their potential people at the job itself, everyone's safety's at risk. So you need to be switched on Get that mindset out of the way and approach everything with a clear canvas, which is very easy to say when you're retired from the job now. when I spent all those years in the specialist, hear the jobs and come in not having to do the paperwork. Yeah. and and leave that. But you certainly notice those things from the outside looking in and I still see it firsthand. With the everyday police that I see at a local bus stop and things like that and I overhear things go Okay. Okay. Is this the new training way or are people just fed up? I don't know. So Well, I think it's a bit of both, to be honest. Yeah, they are fed up, for sure. I don't know if that'll ever change. It's the same wherever you go in the world. They'll there's always lows. in in policing there are. Like you get burnt out. Which brings me on to the last bit before we finish up there. But would you say your approach to policing over, let's say twenty one, twenty two years now? Yeah. Has your approach mindset wise away from the job changed? For me My escape was exercise. Yes. that worked for me. That was my thing. For some people it was drinking. Some people it was socialising. I was probably the opposite. I was exercising, which has helped me a lot as you get older. But what was your go to escape? Back in London it was definitely drinking. Okay. Yeah. Yep. beers. What were we gonna do a gym I'm a gin girl? Yeah, I don't mind that. I'm a gin girl. Rose? Now that it's out? Nah, we like them dry, aren't I'm not really a wine girl. never have liked wine, never have liked beer. but I do like a gin. And my my team were great, but after we did our ten long days on, we would always go out for a drink. So especially in the Met and in London, you can't beat like the London nightlife, you just can't. And it was always great having that that moment with your team to to enjoy a couple of drinks. Here there isn't that. There isn't. It's a pack up, see you later, go home, see you next week. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what it is. There's no real solidarity, no real Like I've had a couple of functions. And would you say that's changed just the way life's so much more fast paced now where people have their own families, they've got, you know, other things to attend. They might have I don't know if myself. I don't know. Two kids. They train all week at different times for sport. They've got this. I'm forever going somewhere. Yeah. So I I genuinely I don't like I've and this is I'm sorry, but a pacey maybe we all just find it different, but I've had numerous conversations with different pace officers from different areas as well, not just in in they're not English, where they s they say that it must be part of the culture here within the police that y or just in G Ds, 'cause we're all in G Ds, that there isn't that group solidarity. i I've been told that they used to go on many different things, like team building exercises to you know, to make sure that you're all One and all, but I it doesn't have to be alcohol. Two thousand nine I started. Yeah. We'd finish night shift. Yeah. We'd have beers. As a group of people. Same same with us. You go to push their early house. Yeah. In Queensland a ban on government premises to have alcohol. Yeah. Even in their your own fridge with your large anything, you couldn't have anything there. We weren't allowed that. You weren't allowed that? No. Well there was one place that that did have that, but it was in the city of London that had a bar. But we no, we didn't have that, but we would go to a park. And that had early licensing. Gotcha. And you would go straight there. Yeah. Yeah. And I noticed that cutoff as in where that was us getting in a group after night shift, sitting down, having beers, having a talk about the week, having a laugh. Yeah. And unwinding. Yeah. And when that band come in, there's a significant change. Everyone packed their stuff up, they bugged it off, they went home. They might drink on their own at home. You know, they might do their own thing. But that socialization adjusted. Yeah. No doubt from some academic that done some study that decided this is the only way forward that's never done a real day's work. That's my view on that. I hated the fact that we lost the Comrade as a result of some study they decided was the new way forward. There's a part of me that thinks that the world has changed really. I don't know if you've noticed, but I've noticed that since COVID it there doesn't appear to be as much drinking going on. Unless it's just because I live here now, but The UK is a drink nation. They love alcohol. They love having a drink. Here it's not so much. But even my child who's my older son, he's twenty. He doesn't really go out drinking. Yeah. It's just and he was a COVID kid where it was freeze exams, he was locked up, didn't get to go out and really do what we did as like seventeen, sixteen, seventeen year olds going out drinking. But Yeah, it's just not a thing. Different times. Yeah. Yeah. You're right, climate, a change in the in the adjustment there. That's how we are going forward. to finish up, we have had a very in-depth chat. But I would like to finish off with I want two. Two answers here. I knew you were gonna ask me this. Mm-hmm. I thought about it. Two pet peeves that grind Loz's bones. Hit me with them. thought of it the other day. Smoking is one. Yeah. And do not like cigarette smoke. Yes. yes. Yuck. Yeah, I really don't like the smell, don't like it being near me. I've got it that's a huge pet peeve of mine. Like really hate I really hate cigarette smoke. And there was another one and I can't think of it. You're gonna have to fill in the space now. Fill in the space. I'll tell you one of mine and obviously it got escalated as a result of COVID, but I've always hated it. And having just traveled overseas to a lot of countries. Yeah. Coughing. Not covering your mouth. yeah, that's right. I went to the footy the other night and a a lady behind me decided the entire game and pre-match, she was just gonna cough. Not once did she cover her mouth. Full adult. Yeah, should have been in her 50s. And in my opinion, male, female, or anywhere in between, you open your mouth, cough, and you cough in the direction of someone you're asking a fight. We're we're talking a day and age where when COVID was happening, if you did do that when you were meant to wear a face mask, that was almost terrorism. Yeah. You were you were causing all sorts of things that we in my opinion, we changed so much. We understood washing our hands, cleaning things a lot more, face masks. hygiene in general yeah and then yeah you beauty throw the face masks away everything's gone and just went back to sneeze on the back of someone's neck in public that's why see what a pet peeve it grinds me it grinds me so it's great tell me that has filled in the gap for your second it has okay it has people not taking accountability it's a huge one for me yes and I mean it's a loose term. Yeah. Accountability in general. Talk to me. Someone not taking accountability can you I mean I could literally do another podcast on it, genuinely. Okay. Because I feel like everyone in life blames somebody else for something that's gone on that they've been triggered about but not taking accountability for their own stuff. Yeah. And it grinds me that they are so far up their own backside. That they don't understand that they're the actual problem. Ownership. Ownership, taking accountability for something in your life that you can control. And it's funny you mentioned that because that's something I come in as a twenty three year old at the Academy was exactly that wasn't called ownership or accountability back then, but it was just literally the words of if you fuck up, you own it. You put your hand up and you go, you know what? I've fucked up. I'm not proud of it. Yeah. But I need to adjust that and but I put my hand up. Yep. And I wear the cost. And if you don't learn from your stakes, how are you gonna get better? Yeah. But you have to be accountable to that. So it it links a bit in with everything. Because if you don't if you don't take ownership, accountability for your own problems, you're never gonna change. So I couldn't agree more. And exactly what you said, that's a podcast on its own. It is. my god, I could talk about that forever. Yeah. So we'll finish off with, yeah, literally thank you for coming in. I you've opened my eyes on so much of this Pacy stuff that is a concern. So anyone that is out there that is a Pacy that wants to reach out, potentially wants to chat or come on board or reach out in general, more than happy as a retiree to have a bit of a chat. I'm not saying I know everything, because I definitely don't. And I'm only speaking from my opinion. So I'm gonna do a soft clause on that because I'm sure I probably riled some feathers up. But I don't mean it in a a dis in. ingenuous way. It's like a a severe problem that I've recognised and there will be plenty of people that are gonna leave and I hope they're a aware that it could all be undone if if things changed. All right, Skippy, thank you for coming on today. Appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you.