Aaron: Welcome back to the Izzy Right Though podcast, where today's special guest is a medically retired police officer of ten years down in the Logan at Division there. He might also be known by some of you as the guy that ha runs the Unstable Australia socials page. Blake, Jerry, welcome. Thank you. Good to be here. Mate, I got a bit of a tip off or two for people going, You gotta get him on there, gotta have a chat. This is your chance, mate. I'm I want to learn a lot more about yourself. we no doubt cross paths a fair bit over the period, but my memory's not the best at at at the best of times now. But mate, I want to hear about a young Blake. Yeah. thanks, thanks for having me on. Yeah, look, I am a Logan boy through and through. I grew up in Beanleigh, which if anyone knows the area of Logan, knows how rough it can be. had a pretty normal sort of childhood. Mum and dad, dad worked in the city long hours. Mum worked from home to sort of take care of the kids and do school runs and stuff like that. Older brother, younger sister. yeah, very sort of middle class sort of childhood. Local schools went to Beanleigh High, which back then it was, you know, the ghetto. Yeah. first week of high school, you know, grade eight, there was a a fight between Beanleigh High and Trinity High just down the road where Everyone had baseball bats and knives and that was the era that I was at school. so yeah, it was pretty rough. But back then that was, you know, one of the only high schools in the area. So yeah, grew up, you know, playing a lot of sport and wanted to become a firefighter and you know, finished school and went to uni for about six weeks, realized uni's not for me. Gotcha. and then I got a job in a hotel down the Gold Coast. So being eighteen and And working on the Gold Coast meant a lot of nights out, you know, enjoying the the nightclub scene and couldn't think of anything worse to do now at my age. and then yeah, got a job in aviation fire and rescue and moved up to Townsville. Mate, I get it. I understand. I I looked before we got to this point and I saw that you finished in two thousand three, same year I graduated school, mate. So you're mentioning I was northern New South Wales, however, you mentioned that whole party lifestyle on the Gold Coast and stuff, I moved up here and I know that all too well. before we go into that though, mate, you mentioned sport. What were your sports growing up? predominantly cricket. Yeah. Okay. Have played cricket since I was you know, I picked up my first bat when I was about two years old. So you were a batter? Yeah mate, I try. I try and do everything. But yeah, growing up when I was younger it was fast bowling. Okay. pretty much wrecked my back though, when I was sort of seventeen, eighteen and you know, years of running on concrete and whatnot sort of threw the body out. and then got into sort of batting and stuff like that. So I still play now. Yep. definitely not as good as I used to be and and the reflexes are slowing down, but I enjoy it. It's you know, it's my sort of comfort place. Where where'd you bat? We're middle order? yeah, like three or four. Yeah, okay. Yeah. I mean I've bat pretty much everywhere up and down the order. But yeah, you know, made it to sort of southeast Queensland level. Yep. played a lot of indoor cricket as well. Gotcha. but that that was it. That was pretty much my life, you know. I was the the you know, kid out the back house and you know, throwing a ball against a brick wall and driving my parents insane every afternoon, hours at a time. Yeah. but I loved it. Mate, I was cricket and soccer, so I completely relate. I was a bowler though. So opening bowler. Yeah. so I look at it and go, Jeeze, these batters had it all right, hey, you know, if they got out, they'd sit around sit around. Yeah, you know, we were obviously as a A fast bowler, you ended to be the one moving around the field as a bit more agile as well. So Absolutely. Yeah, we're pretty gassed by the end of it. And then obviously bat right at the tail order because you're a bowler. So happy days, mate. We can get out go out and have a swing and and there's no pressure as a batsman. So Yeah. Yeah. So I played a heap of cricket. and then Pretty much AFL was the other the other sport that I got into. So yeah. that was through school and yeah, I loved it. You know, and still do still watch it every week. Use your team. Lions. Okay. Yeah. No a Collingwood guy. But it was good to see that final, not you know, having a couple of ECA. That was epic. Yeah. I went to the toilet with about two minutes to go. Thinking I was being born. And went, What the hell? I come back at the right time though, but just went, What just happened? Yeah. I I couldn't sit still. I was outside watching it through the outside window. I couldn't sit still. I had to be out there w working off the nervous energy. the score was sort of starting to blow out there a bit, but when the the dockers forward missed that goal in front of it, they'll cost him the game and yeah. When you look at it, mate. It's a cruel sport. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What was your position there? centre. I was just sort of a rover. Yeah. Yeah. I was always quite sort of small, you know, I was I was forty five, fifty kilos ringing wet. Yeah. so I was quick, quick and nimble. Which I didn't have the size, never was never gonna play basketball or be a key forward or anything. Just don't have the height in me. Yeah, okay. Yeah. And at school, how would you be described? What were your report cards? Did you have the same sort of end of year template that was written by teachers? Yeah, I think that it was very generic back then. You know, everything was handwritten. I actually went through my report cards not that long ago. Okay. yeah, I mean, every everything was, you know. passable. Yeah. And it said, you know, I'm I'm reliable, I'm trustworthy, you know, respected in the classroom. I wasn't an outstanding student. Yep. but I never, you know, tried to be, I guess. I I probably didn't commit as much as I should have. Yeah. because I just wanted to play sport. Yeah. And I'd sit I'd I remember sitting in the classroom staring out the window at the cricket fields at Douth Park in Beanleigh. Yeah. And they would be preparing the wicket. And I would just be sitting there daydreaming that I that's what I wanted to be doing. So I get it, mate. I was putting my hand up for different sports in play because it meant an extra day off school, representing school. So I get it, mate. There was ways around it. Absolutely. And you mentioned before you wanted to be a fiery. Yeah, so that was pretty much the goal towards the end of sort of high school. Okay. bit of a dream job, you know, I wanted to be a firefighter. and hadn't really looked too much into it. Like I said, I went to uni because I think that was just, you know, what my parents expected me to do. My brother had gone to uni and yeah, I lasted about six weeks. And of that six weeks, I probably only went to, you know, half a dozen classes. As soon as the the pressure was on me to or the the onus was on me to actually attend, I I lost interest. So yeah got into a hotel job and then started to work towards the the goal of of joining I wanted to join Queensland Fire. so got into all the you know the fitness side of things and but back then I was again, you know, I was probably only sixty five kilos. So yeah you know, when you're going up against grown men, the physical is, you know, pretty hard. I mean I passed. Yep. but back then they also just didn't want very young people in the job. They wanted people with life experience. Which made a lot of sense back then. I don't know if that's still the same now. I know it's certainly not that in policing. but yeah back then, you know, they they wouldn't even look at you if you're under sort of twenty, mid twenties. Okay. Yeah. And you went and done that? Somewhere, inquiring wise. as in the training. Yeah. look, a lot of it was just at home. you know, I started going to the gym when I was sort of seventeen and and building up strength and then filled a backpack full of sandbags. Yeah, homemade sandbags and I'd go for a run around the block or, you know, try and get my fitness up and then go to the school courts and do the beat test and a lot of it was, you know, pretty sort of basic, but You know, it worked. Yeah. I think, you know, the fitness industry, there's all obviously a lot of things that you can do, but the core sort of elements are there, you know, that you can do at home, you know, a lot of body weight sort of stuff. So, yeah, I was pretty committed to it. I worked a lot of afternoons in the hotel. So yeah, I would train in the morning. Yeah, come home, have lunch and then go to work. So Which hotel were you at down the Ghali? it was back then it was known as It started as McCure and now it's Paradise Resort. So it's a kids' resort. when I first started there it was just transitioning to the kids side of things and I just worked as a porter. So I just take people's bags to the room. So Yeah, okay. wasn't too bad when it was, you know, more the corporate. once the family started coming through and the wagon would turn up and they'd have a full, you know, boot full of, you know, bags and shopping bags and juggling things on a trolley and it made it a lot harder but I loved it. You know, it was it was such a cruisy sort of gig and and worked with a you know good group of people. Yeah. And yeah, it worked with what I wanted to do. Okay. And we finished up at that sort of area. And what was the next step for you? Yeah, so I worked there from pretty much eighteen to early twenty or twenty. And then I got phone call randomly one day. I'd applied for Queensland Fire, just couldn't get in, but I'd also applied for the aviation firies. So that's through Air Services Australia. Okay. So they basically are at most of the major airports. had applied just on a whim. I think my dad worked with somebody whose husband was in the job and he sort of put me onto it. Got a phone call and said, We've got a spot that's popped up. You can start course in a couple of weeks, but you need to choose from either Townsville or Mackay Airports to to move to. And I was obviously living in Brizzy at the time. So big, big decision, you know, being 20 and and I spoke to dad and he he'd done a lot of travel for work and he said, you know, go to Townsville. It's a bigger, bigger sort of city. Yep. so yeah, so I accepted it, 20 years old and and went into the I think I started just after my twenty first. was when I sort of graduated. Okay. and yeah, moved to moved to Townsville in the December. And there's an academy there they put you through? Well that was in sorry, that was the academy's in Brisbane. Right. it was back then. I think it's in Melbourne now. so I did all my training at between Brisbane and Gold Coast Airport. So they have fire stations there and then they have a training ground where it's like a mock-up aircraft with fuel that gets fed into it and stuff like that. Sorry. You're all right, mate. No, no, it's all good. and yeah, and then I went down to the Gold Coast and did the fire the hot like the building training there. So basically they just fill it full of fire and you just go in and and learn how to sort of navigate it all. So So what's the standard day once you're out there, you're you said Townsville airport. Yep. What's it what's the standard day like? I'm assuming a fair bit of sitting around. There is a lot. Yeah. it it I guess it all comes down to what airport you're working at. So Townsville was although it was civilian run, we had the Air Force, the RAF there, and the army choppers and stuff like that there as well. So there was a bit more action. Plus we had like the the RAF sort of base there. So as in people live there. Yeah. yeah, a lot of sitting around. as a twenty one year old, you know, we had a gym on site, so you know, I got heavily into my fitness. Yeah. a normal day in the morning you'd basically start Do all your checks on your truck, make sure everything's operational. go and do any more training competencies. So, you know, whether it's tying knots or yeah, you know, putting out fires, putting on your breathing apparatus and stuff like that. You had to do it every sort of three months to to stay competent. And then it was basically up to you as to what you wanted to do after that. So I'd go to the gym. We had a like a rec room with recliners and aircon and foxtel and some guys would just basically do the bare minimum and then go and sit in the air con for the rest of the day. Being townswell it was super hot. Yeah, absolutely. but you know, and then there were other days where it was flat out because we had you know, the the army were doing, you know, drills with their black hawks and and chinooks and stuff, and we were required to stand by just in case. Just in case something goes wrong. during your time did you have any jobs? Were you putting fires out at any stage? Nothing major. Yeah. you know, we were surrounded by bushland or swamp, basically, because it's right on the water there. Yeah. so there was a lot of like wildfires that we put out. fires in in regards to it. Yeah, we had some, you know, we also responded to within a kilometer of the end of a runway, which was residential housing. Okay. So you'd respond to house fires there, traffic crashes, To one where a motorcyclist had come off and his steel cap boot had flicked up and the steel capped had basically guillotined his toes off. really? Yeah. So that was, you know, I'd just got my motorcycle license as well, was in the process of wanting to buy one and that put me off it straight away. but yeah, a lot of it was more, you know, the the sort of preventative stuff, you know, you're just out patrolling around, making sure all the hydrants are working and stuff like that. We did have one where a squadron of FA eighteens came in and one landed really heavily, blew out his his landing gear, skidded down the runway. thankfully didn't, you know, catch on fire or anything like that, wrecked the runway runway for a bit. But yeah, that was pretty cool. Yeah. you know, pretty sort of humbling to see a eighteen year old get out of this, you know, multi million dollar jet and hear him say to his boss, Well, we're gonna fly this afternoon. Where's can I get another jet? And he's just think Hey, you've just wrecked a multi million dollar jet, but Hey, you know, I was jealous. That was it. Yeah, wow. And how many years did you do that for? So I did that for four years. And what you just got itchy feet, like you're bored. Well, because I I lived in Brisbane and obviously family and all that were down here. moving to Townsville, it was a big thing. And the plan had always been to transfer back down. So around that four year mark, my then partner, she was in uni. and we'd said we'll last last it out until uni's done and then move back down. So I put in my transfer papers and stuff like that. Twelve months later, I I hit up. you know, and said, How's my spot going? And they were you being serious? And I said, That's why I put in the paperwork. Yeah. And they said, give us another twelve months. And I just said, Nah, look, I'm done. You know. again, the sort of the joy of being young, I guess, you know, you you're positive and you think, I'll pick something up. Yep. so yeah, moved back down and got into sort of the corporate world doing emergency response training and stuff, you know, using the fire skills that I had. Right. but I hated it. You know, it's Monday through Friday. You're going to anywhere from, you know, Brisbane City all the way down to sort of northern New South Wales and going to work places and telling them how important it is that they know how to use a fire extinguisher and Right. Who's my slideshow? Yeah. Who's your fire warden and saying the same jokes and the same spiel over and over again. You know, evacuating, you know, high rise buildings in the city and copying abuse from lawyers and you know, do you know how much my time is worth? And Yeah, I did that for two years. Okay. And I was like, That's enough. I'm done. I just 'cause I'd always done s shift work. Like at the hotel it was always shift work, fierys again. And I just I didn't like the Monday through Friday, you know. You only get Saturday and then by Sunday afternoon you're dreading Monday morning again, you know. So you get a day and a half off. So learned pretty quickly that yeah, corporate just wasn't for me. So And that was around the time that I then, yeah, put in my application for QPS. And they should have, I'm assuming, jumped at you, you know, with that skill set that you had. for me, you know, I joined at twenty three. So I had to go to I think it was years before I applied, but didn't have that life experience we were talking about earlier. So to go to Bon Uni on weekends and do a justice course to prove, you know, that I had some sort of skill set or experience to study and and go down that path. But I'm assuming for you it was a pretty Slide open open doors. I mean, I I'd never had any aspirations to join the police. a mate of mine was serving at the time and he sort of was the one who said, you know, consider it. And I was hesitant because I didn't want to move away again and I knew that QPS could obviously send you wherever you wanted. and he was like, look, just throw in and if you you know, if they send you somewhere else, you just resign. And I was like, okay, yeah, sure enough. Put in my application, got all the dates, and I was really laid back and blase about it. You know, I I sort of delayed my testing and just because I just wasn't sort of motivated for it. Yeah. Not that I didn't want the job, but I just it wasn't a priority at the time. Once I'd completed all that, I got within a week I got a phone call saying you've been accepted. there's another course starting in two weeks if we we'd love you on it. Yeah. I was like, okay. Yeah. All right. No worries. Put in my resignation and and turned up to day one at the academy and sort of had no idea what I was doing. Yeah. What year was that? So that was twenty fourteen. Okay. Yeah. So I was twenty eight at the time. Yeah. and I felt old. You know, there was there was a heap of sort of early twenties. Which I wasn't expecting. And I think the oldest he was probably late forties, maybe maybe even fifties. I think there was one a little bit older. Okay. so there was a really wide range of of people and I sort of Yeah, I I didn't know really where I fit in. You know, I wasn't super young, but I obviously wasn't super old, but you know, and I sort of yeah, like I I was surrounded by people who this was their dream. Yeah. You know, they'd been on a wait list at back then there was a wait list for people to get in. you know, you talk to people and they were like, I've been waiting twelve month twelve months, eighteen months, two years. Yeah. And this is all they've ever dreamt of. And they go, How long have you been waiting? And I said, Two weeks. And they go, Have you always wanted this? And I No, I still don't know if I want this. Yeah. I'm here. Yep. But I don't know if I'm this is what I want to do. Yeah. yeah. So it's a bit of a sort of a culture shock and and ha having come from emergency services and the federal government side of things, I sort of knew how things work and you know, how you have to just play the game and that was sort of my philosophy of going into the academy was don't stand out. Yeah. Just be a gray man. Yeah. I don't want people to know me. I don't want them to to remember my name. I don't want them to on either end of the scale. Yeah. I don't want them to go, my God, he's a standout because then if you've if you do mess up, you stand out again. And I don't want to be at the bottom end where people are going, I can't get this bloke through. So I was quite content to just be a middleman. Okay. You know, just, you know, coast through it. And you went through, was there anything that stood out to you at the academy? Or I think probably the biggest thing was just how much you had to know, but you just you had to know a little bit of everything. You know, like general duties policing is, you know, you're not an expert in any one area. But you've got to know every area. Jack of all trades, master of none. Absolutely. You know, whether it's you're intercepting a vehicle, so you're gonna know your your your road regulations and and whatnot. And then you've you've going to D V jobs, you're going to anything that requires a scene of crime, you know, you've got to declare a crime scene. You know, you're attending so many different jobs and you're expected to know enough to basically get you through it. Yeah. so it was a lot to take in, but I didn't necessarily struggle. I studied a lot and you know, I was scoring in sort of the high ninety percents, which, you know, was great, but the pass was sixty percent, which I thought was quite low. Yeah. You know, for for the job that you are putting us through out there to do. Sixty percent is you know, that's you can pass that without any sort of study. So, sort of, you know, raised an eyebrow at that because it's such a res or it was a respected and valued job and it's a such a required job in our community. Yeah. And we're quite content to, you know, let people out there with 60%. So yeah, look, I loved I I loved the time there. I found it really easy to do. I loved the, you know, seven to three sort of schedule, the early start but early finish. Yeah. it was laid back. It was like being back at school again. Yeah. You know from what I'd come from and and you know working the 40 hour week where you're sort of under the pump the whole time and it was it was you know, a bit of a holiday. So really enjoyed it, really enjoyed the skill side of things, you know, the driving. And I think everybody goes in thinking I'm a great driver. Yeah. and that humbles you very quickly. Had you shot a gun before? No. Yeah, I was the same. Yeah. So I was a bit sort of apprehensive about that. not that I was sort of scared of it or anything like that, but obviously you it's something that you've never done before, so you don't know how you're gonna go. and I did all right. Yeah. You know, I passed you know, easily. But yeah, it was was something that I wasn't you know, super comfortable with. Yeah. And then the driver training, you know, they they send you out. I don't know if they did the same for you, but, you know, they go, right, go down to this cone and and come back and we're timing you for how quickly you can get back. So everyone just hooks down there, locks it up, skids, you know, burns up. Yeah. And then they show you how it should be done. You know, and it's basically fast but, you know, controlled and slow and steady wins the race and You know, and and they basically do that to put everybody everybody back on that level playing field to save. Save this fast. You know, we're not we're not here to drive recklessly. and I really enjoyed that side of things, you know, that that was a really I think you know, I'd been driving for ten years at that point, but it really showed just how much more focused I could be. Yeah. You know, and and pushing your car to a sort of a limit safely. while still r you know, responding obviously quickly. So I don't know if they did the same, but you know, you go for a drive and your instructor takes you wherever they want to go city for nighttime. We went all the way out to Kalani for dinner. the sergeant that we had had a pub there that he loved to go to. I love it. And yeah, we went through the mountainside to get to there and then had dinner and came home and and he's chucked me the keys and he said, All right, you get us home. Yeah. And he nodded Off to sleep in the passenger seat. Good. And I'm driving this marked police car going, I have no idea where I'm going. I you know, following a GPS and trying to get us back to back to Oxley. So but yeah, really enjoyed that side of things. The the 'cause I'm I'm more I learn better by doing things. yeah. Practical learner. I get it. so that sort of that side of things was fantastic. So yeah. yeah, nothing really sort of, you know, jumped out at me that So you put in preferences for where you wanted to go. Did you get where you wanted? Yeah. So I was lucky enough that G twenty it just was just happening at the end. Yeah. Of our Academy time. So I put in for like Logan, Gold Coast, South Brizzy. Gotcha. I didn't want to move and back then it was you didn't know until three quarters of the way through your academy. Yeah. Whereas now I think they tell you pretty much from the start. Couldn't tell you, mate. Don't know. I know I applied for the Gold Coast and got the other end of town, nowhere near there. So I was devastated. Where'd you end up? I ended up Redcliffe. okay. I didn't even know of the place. You know, I was from northern New South Wales. So I wanted to be at least Gold Coast was only an hour to see your family and stuff and thought that makes sense. Yeah, I got Redcliffe, no idea. Went there for lunch one day before I started with this isn't too bad. this looks pretty pretty good. I'm happy with that. Right on the water there. Yeah, right on the water. So then it was a matter of part of the time going, Hey, we've got time to purchase a property. Where can we get somewhere in between? And yeah, still run that risk because you do your first year and you still could end up anywhere after that first year, but we're you know, pretty lucky in that way. We got to stay there. So Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I I ended up getting Logan. So Okay. Pretty much our whole intake. Yeah a lot of our intake went to to Logan. So they were screaming out for numbers. So but it's a good area to learn. Same as like I guess Morton Division where we were, mate, it's a busy area and you get you get so many jobs and a mixture of everything. always point out about a good mate of mine, he done his first year up the sunny coast. He came down to Redcliffe and he was just blown away with how many jobs, you know, like they might have three a day back then. Yeah. We're doing three in the first ten minutes. Yeah. Absolutely. So what you could learn in your first year when you you know, your eyes are open, your ears are open, you're ready to just absorb. Yep. It just Set you forward being in a busier place than a more laid back. Absolutely. I think they said, you know, back then it was one year in Logan was the equivalent of say five years of release. I get it. just because of the diversity of children. It's probably closer to ten years ago. yeah, you just get smashed from day one. Hundred percent. Which is great, you know, because you're keen, you you you're focused and you're ready to go. but it's it's like getting thrown into the deep end and you cannot swim. You have no idea what you're doing. Yeah. And they don't k nobody cares. Do you remember your first job ever? What shift were you on? Morning, afternoon, moment? It was a day shift. Yeah. like an eight to four and it was sort of an orientation day. So it was sort of an ease into it. Meet your your field training officer and we'll go for a drive around and have a look. That lasted about half an hour and then comms called up and said, Hey, can we send you you know, some jobs? And the first job I went to was a welfare check. Or sorry, no, not a welfare check. It was like a I guess it was a disturbance sort of thing. It was basically siblings f arguing over a deceased estate. So I turned up and it was just bedlam, you know, people yelling at each other about you know, mum's assets and mum mum said she left me this and blah blah blah. And she hadn't passed away that day though. She within the last sort of week. Yeah. So emotions were already high. Yeah. Emotions were already high and then they were there sort of divvying up. She's not even, you know, in the ground yet. Yeah. Yeah. and I'm standing there going I don't remember covering this in the academy. I have no idea what any because it there's no criminal offense. It's just all civil. Yeah. What do we do? Yep. And then you realize that you're basically like a kindergarten teacher. You know, you're just separating the parties and saying, Settle down. Don't do this, don't do that. Yeah. So it was it was good because it it didn't, you know, expose excuse me, it didn't expose me to anything straight away. Yeah. But God, it it humbled me, you know, I I realised I don't know anything. And they say that, you know, you go to the academy and you don't learn practical skills. Yeah. Job one was, you know, as real as it gets. So yeah, mate, my first one I was two to ten shift. And I had a serious assault at Bunnings. One of the ladies that worked there. you know, was stopping someone stealing and he just spat in her face. Yeah, right. Again, I don't think it was really covered at the Academy all that night. I just remember starry eyed, big eyes looking at my FTA gun. What do I do? You know, 'cause they're looking at me going, you know, telling me their story and I'm like, Yeah, I'm not down. Yeah, but I don't know what to do. Yeah. It was just, yeah, get your notebook out write it all and go from there. So And and you think about it now, like from a public perspe perspective, yeah. They don't know that you're that's your first they look at you and go, Well, you're a police officer. Yeah. You you know what to do. Yep. Yeah. And yeah, it's it's you know, it's it's a baptism of fire, basically. I get it. And do you remember going to your first body? Yeah, I I mean, I had a lot in my first year. I I I got the nickname the Grim Reaper. Yeah. Okay. And that sort of stuck with me for the rest of my career because I just seemed to go in waves of it, as you do. and I had a few. The first one was a a natural natural death. Yeah. just somebody with medical issues had passed away and it was probably a a soft introduction into sort of that world of death, because although it was expected, obviously there was still the emotions that came from it from the family. And you know, you have to change your whole approach as a police officer when you're responding to that sort of job as as if you're, you know, responding to a domestic violence job. You know, you soften the way you talk, you just listen, you know, you don't interrupt, you ask them, you know, what sort of medication, how have they been feeling? And and you you just have to have patience. Yeah. Because they're so distracted. I mean, their loved one is lying deceased on the floor beside them and you're asking them questions about, Hey, how are they feeling the last, you know, twenty four hours? And they go, fine. He went to bed and he was fine. Yeah. You know, so it's yeah, it was sort of it was, you know confronting, I guess. The only other dead body that I'd seen was at the academy. You know, they take you to the morgue. and even that, that was that was confronting because that was a a drowning. A guy, a young guy had drowned. And and I still remember going in and they said, come over and you know, you can touch them and stuff like that. And and I I always likened it to like a pork roast. Like just that feeling of the skin that it was still hard, but it was so cold. Yeah. And I remember telling my family that and they were like, Thank you, you've ruined more pork. Well, that's how I can describe it. So yeah, and you know, all those different things that you you don't really comprehend until you're in that position. Yeah. You know, and and the the smell that comes with somebody who's passed away. You know, that's something that nobody really understands and how quickly that smell starts to filter into the air. Yeah. You know, that sickly sweet smell, you know, and and it it triggers all those thoughts and those memories. And it's funny, I for as a result of my accent, I can't smell or taste ever again. But you mentioned that and I still can smell, still have that memory of that. Yeah. It's epic. Yeah. And and you know, I've I've said it before in in one of my podcasts is I have this memory from the morgue that the lady who the officer who was showing us around, she wore a certain perfume on that day. And I didn't even know I I had this r recall on it until my sister wore it. And it it took me back to to the morgue. It was standing back in the morgue, a flashback, very not a traumatic flashback, but I was like just a memory. I didn't even know that that was somewhere in my mind. Because it wasn't a big deal at the time. Yeah. It was yeah, it was a trip to the morgue and see we got told before, I think a couple of days before we went, that exact thing. Don't put your favorite perfume or anything on. Or if you've got a partner at home, make sure they don't have it a couple of days prior. for that exact reason. So yeah, had the heads up, but yeah. It's yeah of all the things I could smell and taste, that would not be on the list if I got the option to go back. No, and like I think back down, you know, when we were in Lamorgue, they wheeled past a trolley and had a I think he was an inspector. who'd taken his own life with his service. And so they wheeled him past and the sheet blew up a bit and you got to see it and stuff like that. But at the time again, you don't comprehend how serious and what that actually means. mate, I'm I still have the memory, you know, now it'll be seventeen years ago for me. But I can't watch, you know, CSI when it gets to the you know, a body bag or anything like that. I can't that that shit just sets me off. And I I'll look the other way. Go look. Yeah. I'll guess in two minutes that we're past that scene now. But yeah, that stuff still sits with me. But it's more the the tag on the toe and just the fact that everything's covered up, the toes are mate, it just yeah, that'll never leave me. Some people are just it doesn't Yeah. It they they're good with it. But I was the opposite, mate. I was young and naive and yeah, that stuff really it's incredible the way that your brain h retains that. Yeah. But when everything's going well, it's a distant sort of memory. It's locked away somewhere. And it doesn't seem to bother you. And it's only until you break down all of those compartments and everything comes flooding out that you actually realise, hey, that did impact me at the time. So, you know, I think I can't even sleep with the duna, like with my toes out and my feet out. That's still to this day. No, I've got to do that. Be completely off the duna, yeah, not have it near me, or can't have my feet out the bottom, which is as hard as a six foot three guy. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, wow. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, look, and that that was probably you know, the introduction to sort of, you know, the sudden death world and and then progressively you you go to a few more and they'd be, you know, suicide or something like that. And the first suicide I went to was a hanging and Yeah. You know, that was that was pretty confronting. Yeah. having obviously yeah, never experienced that sort of stuff before and and seeing the difference between a natural, you know, natural death and and seeing just how I guess there's no dignity in it. You know, when you we've come across somebody who's still in the position that they they took their own life and and you've got to basically sort that out. And you know, it's there's no dignity, family are there. My hardest bit was always reading the notes that were left behind. Yeah. And they just you know the the mindset they must have been in, you know, at that time to I've spoken about it before, but with hangings, it's not as if you just go, all right, I'm jumping off an edge. You've got to tie the knot. Yeah. You've got to work something out to tie that to. You've then got to, you know, go down this path. So what I'm saying is there's there's all these little potential stoppages that you could go, Do I actually want to do this? Do you want to but to go through that entire thing set all the way from start to finish and that might geez, that must be a pretty dark. Yeah, and even even the the you know, putting the the rope around your neck and doing it. It's not a quick process. You know, people think, it's it's done and dusted. It's it's not, you know, you might pass out. hopefully quickly, but yeah, it's a it's not a a pleasant sort of time and I think going to that sort of job really sort of s like separated, you know, that we're we're in the, you know, the big time now. You know, there's I sort of felt like a bit like of an imposter. You know, I'm standing there going, Should I be here? Like am I allowed to be here seeing this? Whereas and everyone, you know, family wise and whatnot, they're looking at you going, You're the guy. You're the guy to help here. Yeah. so yeah, it's sort of it it, you know, makes you grow up pretty quickly. It does, mate. And then you know, it's not as simple as that's done and dusted, you know, there's hours worth of stuff, scenes of crime and then you've you know, you've then got the undertakers, there's all sorts of bits and pieces from start to finish. But then you potentially go to your next job. Or go home. Yep. Absolutely. And there's nothing in between. You can have a partner all you like. If they're not in the job. And my my kid's mother, we were together at the time and we get on really well, but I still relate I tell this story many times. I remember going to one of my first ones, Suicides, and it again it was a hanging. And it did it affected me so much. So much. And I remember going home, went, took the dog for a walk and I was able to talk about that being a tough day. And sell Yeah, I had a I had a tough day as well. I had blah blah took my pen off my d I'm like he related that back to exactly what that is. But yeah, they're awkward. That I don't know if they were just trying to fill in a gap and space and things like that too. But I still it still sticks with me. How traumatic that was for me. I open up and it was the equivalent of old mate had taken the pen off the desk. So is what it is. everyone relates differently and I think that's what's important. Yeah, you know, about having people, mates or people you talk to that do understand. Yeah. And sometimes it's not about saying anything, it's just being there and listening. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I I don't think if I think back to, you know, that time of policing, I there definitely wasn't any support. You know. There was You just turned up, you did your job because that was what was expected of you. And you go back to station, do your paperwork, and then that was it. There was no check in, there was no, Hey, how are you doing after that? Yeah, in the days afterwards, did you sleep properly? Mm. Some of the advice I got was, yeah, go home and have a drink. Have a drink. Cool. Yeah. You know, which was the coping mechanism for a lot of older police and and probably still is, but that's that's not a healthy way to do it. Yeah. You know. So, yeah, there definitely wasn't anything to sort of help guide me through that. I get it. Yeah. And is there any jobs in particular whilst we're on your first year? You know, because you do you become accustomed to them to a degree, so you forget about them until you're in a circle with potentially other police go, yeah, a job like that. But is there anything that sticks out to you from your first year that you remember specifically? probably the the worst or the biggest job I went to was a double fatal. Okay. So it was a Sunday morning, about ten o'clock. I was based at Crestmead at the time, and a call came in for Dairy Creek Road, Waterford. I didn't know the area, so I thought Waterford, well, you know, Cressmead responds to Waterford, so that'll be in our area. Jumped on the radio, put our hand up for it. It was a little bit further out, but they didn't have anybody, so we went. And it was, you know, really sort of tragic crash. It was husband and wife on a motorbike. The husband's, you know, driving. He's overtaken a car, given it a a good burst. He was on a GSX thousand or whatever and a car's pulled out older bloke has pulled out from a driveway down further along and it's on a country road so 80k zone and basically he didn't see the motorbike and they've just hit the front A pillar and catapulted over. They were in all of their protective gear. They had everything that they could have you know helped them survive. Yeah but they both passed away. Yeah. You know and that was a really we were first on scene Fieries had just turned up, Ambos weren't there yet, and you know, we basically went, Well, w what can we do? You know, and I went over and held the lady's hand while she passed. You know? What else can you do? You know. that the the injuries that they had were massive. Like the Ambos had said that unfortunately they were never going to survive it. but it doesn't make it any easier. No. And then came the work afterwards. You know, it's the middle of summer. We're on you know, a country road, so to speak. It's hot, they're putting up gazebos, there's ants everywhere, people are coming up and you know, I saw this and I want to give this and and you just it's overwhelming. Yeah, you know, and you go, I don't know what to do. And then it went to, okay, we gotta go back. So we're a six to two shift and they were like, you gotta go back and put the report on. I was like, Yep, no dramas, that's fine. Got back and then the DDO called and he said, actually, I want you to go deliver the death message. to the sun. Fuck's sake. And I said, well not to be insensitive, but we're doing this report and and then we finish at two and I I don't think we're gonna get time. And he No, that's fine. You you just work until You know, until it's all done. Yeah, right. So then we proceeded to drive around for two hours trying to find the son. Mm. And he was he was up near Redcliffe, I think, actually. Yeah, okay. And And realistically it should have just been cool and a crew up there to make the inquiry and pass on the note. Yeah, well I think he was he was with his girlfriend up there. So he lived at home. They lived over at Springwood. So we went to the house and it was one of those really sort of perspective moments. 'Cause I could see all the things that the dad had set out to do that afternoon. Like got all the pool chemicals out to clean and stuff like that. So, you know, everything that he'd planned obviously had now stopped. so we went and picked the son ended up driving to Crestmead station. He'd called police, who popped into a station and instead of them giving the death message, they said, you better go down to Crestmead and talk to those police down there. So he's now gone to a police station, not knowing what's going on. Yeah. And then he's had to drive from Red Cr Red Cliff to Crestmead. Stressing. So by the time he got to us, he was he was an emotional rap. delivered the message to him, you know, you've lost both your parents. Yeah. And to what he was only nineteen at the time, and to watch his whole world just change. But the unprofessionalism with that, not from you, but you know, from other people. And that might be his only encountering moment with police and it's traumatic. And that's just exactly. Yep. So You know, we we told him and then he wanted to sort of you know, he was telling us about this is what I mean about, you know, showing the empathy. He was telling us about how he'd only spoken to his parents the night before and they'd been on a date night and they'd said, we're gonna go for a ride in the morning and we'll see you in the afternoon. Dad's gonna clean the pool and you know, and he's going, but but they were fine. They were just doing this, they were just doing that. Yeah. And you know, what can you what can you do? You know, you just sit there and you just talk, but it it wrecked me. So I was a six to two and we f I walked out of the station at seven PM Yeah right and I was I was cooked emotionally, you know, it it drained me completely. No doubt you were checked on and looked after and Yeah, yeah, yeah. tell me about that experience. Yeah, nothing. Yeah, okay. The DDO at the time, he said at the scene, he said yeah. And if you're struggling, he was an old school DDO. If you're struggling, yeah, talk to someone about it. Tick the box out Yep. Thank you. and then I went camping for three days afterwards. Which was a great time to get away. And it wasn't until I came back to the station and it was in passing. And that was only because the officer that I was working with, it had impacted him as well, and he was a more senior officer. Yeah. That They went, we should probably check on Blake. how you going? It's like, yeah, yeah, I struggled. okay. You good now though? Yeah, okay. You know, so that that was it back then. There was no, you know, check-in or anything like that. And my biggest sort of gripe with the service and their critical incident leave is that it's such a small, you know, criteria to meet to to be a critical incident. Yeah. But if you experience that as a member of public. That you were first on scene to a double fatality and you held the person's hand that passed away and you called your work in the days afterwards and said, Hey, I'm struggling, they'd be like, Absolutely, take as long as you need, you know, how can we help you? QPS, no, that doesn't meet the criteria. You have to basically somebody either has to die in your custody or you're involved in a police sort of shooting or you know, like it's it's too narrow. Yeah. You know, and I'm not saying that we should broaden it to cover everything because a lot of the jobs we go to, you know, are quite sort of severe. Yeah. But we need to be managing the welfare of our people at the very beginning so that we don't have people like me going off ten years down the track going, Hey, if you know, if I could change things I would have. Yeah. You know. Which we're gonna get into, mate. We're slowly painting a bit of a picture as we go along with that one there. So that's your first year, you're done and dusted. Yep. You then got the I guess option to put somewhere else in were you just happy to stay where you were there or did you apply air? I was pretty content in Logan. so I did Browns Plains as my first station and then went to Crestmead. Yep. and then put in preferences. They'd said that everyone that was staying had to stay in Logan. Okay. So you could pick what station you went to though if you wanted to. So I put in for Browns Plains. Yeah, right. I did I had a really good sort of connection with the crew there. Mm-hmm. The boss was really good, Mick Leaf. probably the best OIC I had throughout my entire career. he was brilliant. So put in and and got it, thankfully. Okay. Yeah. Really enjoyed it. And other jobs that you can think of, you know, not your first year now, but once you're out of your first year that you know, you're out of the job now. Which as I said, we'll go into. But are there things that still stick with you more than others from those sort of times? Yeah. And look, there's I mean, you go to thousands of jobs, don't you? You know, over the course of a of a ten year career. And you know, some some stick with you obviously a lot longer than others. one that really sort of I I guess I didn't realise how severe it was until, you know, I'd broken completely. But it was I was working a night shift with one of my best mates and it was five o'clock in the morning. We just got back into the station, logged on the computer to do our final paperwork. finishing at six AM and code two job comes in for anyone who doesn't know what a code two is, Lights and Sirens. And it was the informant was QAS and the job just read, this will be a murder. And I read it and I read it again. I called Glenn over and I said, Do you am I reading this right? You know, five AM, you know, you're tired and and he goes, we we should probably go to that. Yeah. So you know, it was in in Woodridge and coat tooed it over there and we turned up probably yeah 30 seconds behind the first crew. And yeah, unfortunately an elderly man had just gone for a walk. He'd been visiting his daughter, gone for a walk in the morning and there was a man who was in the midst of a psychotic breakdown, essentially, and he was imagining that this man was a a pedophile and, you know, a grub of some sort, and he basically just attacked him and stomped on him and and dragged his body across the road and a witness who who saw it actually said that when he drove around the corner, this man was trying to put, you know, this elderly man into the wheelie bin that was on the side of the road. And he wound down his window and he said, What are you doing? Yeah. And this guy, just cold as anything, looked at him and said, I'm taking out the trash. And then just walked off. How'd he do it? Hey. How'd he how'd he kill him? He ended up just Physically assaulting him. Just stomping him. And the the autopsy that came through, because I, you know, spoke to the detective who ended up pinching him, the autopsy revealed that his injuries were consistent with a high speed traffic crash. That's how that's how much he had stomped on him and belted him. So he was just sort of left lying in the gutter and You know, QAS turned up and it was a bit of a mess around with them. They had, you know, crew that yep, he's deceased. Okay, no worries. Advanced care turned up and said, no, he's got a pulse. I don't think it would have changed the outcome. Yeah. But you know, that's I I would imagine that would be worst case scenario as a as an ambo. Yeah. to say actually he's not dead. And yeah, so he got raced off to hospital. Yeah. He did subsequently pass away. but being five AM, nobody's around. No. There's there's no the D D O had, you know, hit they'd clocked off. There was no, you know, branch. Night Wireless had gone home by this stage, you know. So it was just us. Yeah. And as general duties, like I was probably four, four years in, you know. I I've got a bit of experience, but I've never, you know, attended that. And so we, you know, set up a crime scene and you know, started door knocking and chasing up footage and stuff like that. Five o'clock in the morning and it was Australia Day. So no nobody's open. Yeah. You know, traditionally on public holidays, QPS runs skeleton crews anyway. so nobody is, you know, starting early or anything like that. Yeah. And eventually obviously once the severity of the the job came out, everyone came. Yeah. Media's turning up, you know, they're coming over and sort of going, I don't know how to handle this. You know, I I I don't remember getting this training in No, that's exactly right. There's no, you know, they just you get told, don't talk to the media. Yeah. It's like, but they're standing there, hassling you for a question. I what do I say? Yeah. You know? so anyway, you know, branch turned up, they were around one sort of side of the street. And Glenn and I were taking, you know, a witness version. And then we heard a man coming down the street and he was yelling. And didn't think anything of it. I mean it's Logan Central. That's not uncommon. Yeah. and then the Ambo, who had actually was the informant for the job, was leaving and drove past, went down his window and said, That's the guy. And I was like, What do you mean? He said, That's the guy who killed him. And I was like, okay. jumped on the radio. Hey, he's approaching the crime scene. Yep. at that point we didn't know if he had a weapon on him because the injuries that were on the male victim There was a puncher wound. and the ambos had deduced that it was possibly a screwdriver. So we had to assume that he still had a weapon of some sort. Yeah. Turned out it was just a puncture wound from a rock on the road. Okay. but that we didn't know that until later on. So this man is, you know, no shirt on, no shoes on, covered in blood, yelling and screaming, excuse me, and approaching us. So, you know, I look at Glenn and we're sort of like, okay, Taser's out, giving him demands. Arrest him, get him on the ground, arrest him, caution him. But he is off in a whole different world. He is seeing and talking to people that aren't there. He is he is in the midst of a psychotic breakdown. So arrested him, branch turned up. He then told us that there was a secondary crime scene where he'd run to and he'd taken off his shoe. So we went there, found his blood soaked white nikes and stuff like that. And Yeah, it was a it was a massive job, you know, and it was such a adrenaline dump as well. Yeah. You know, like not just pulling your taser, pulling and arresting it on a a murderer. Yep. Getting him in, you know, cuffs, trying to give him his rights and cautions while he's screaming at you. And yeah, it was it was full on. And then, you know, then it was like, Okay, off you go. You're done. You know, two hours extra O T. Yeah. Which You know, they didn't pay us any public holiday rate for. I was like, but you shift started on a non public holiday rate? Yeah, okay. Yeah, no worries. no check-in again, nothing. I don't think we even got a a a good work email. And look, you don't join the job for those sort of accolades. But again, that's not a normal job. That is a a very out of there you know, to see a a job from the start through to completion, yeah, where you arrest this the offender. on the same shift is is almost unheard of. Unl like unless they're there at the time. I wasn't expecting him to come back. so yeah, so that was probably one of the bigger jobs in my first few years. Okay. Where it was sort of like, God, like and you just expected to know this sort of stuff. Yeah. You know, you're not you're not a first year, you don't have a training officer with you. You're with at rank with another colleague and it's like this is us. Yeah. You know, normally, you know, in Logan we're spoilt because you've got sergeants, you've got DDOs who are there constantly. and they're normally responding within a couple of minutes of a job. So you're never really in a position where you had to make those decisions. Okay. But this was one of those unique situations where it was, yeah, end of shift on a public holiday morning, nobody's around. And you've got to you know, if you stuff it up, this guy could get off. Yeah, I get it, mate. I I've spoken on other podcasts about it. We were 'cause we were over the bridge past Sandgate, we were no longer Brisbane North. Yeah. We were Morton Division. Meaning We didn't get the same look after process. So we didn't have D DOs. Yeah, right. Nothing. So you were like if if you were a night shift, yeah, you might have had night wireless on and that sort of thing there. But you were the one making the calls for different things. so that did grow up very quickly. You know, it literally it could be three years into the job. Yep. And you are in charge of three different police divisions. Yeah. You know, like that's the reality of it. So yeah, it's probably grew us up when we're talking before about certain jobs you go to, we have that probably other next level of requirement for unfortunately jobs like that and different other bits that you yeah. Yeah. And and look, you know, you look back on it and you think, Yeah, I you know, you do a bit of a debrief yourself and and you go, What could I have done better? You know, what what did I do right? And you know, I I I handled it pretty well. Yeah. You know, there was nothing that came from it and my biggest concern was did I get the caution out correctly while he's yelling and screaming because it's distracting. And, you know, I spoke to the detective and he Yeah, absolutely. And they cautioned him once they got back to the station again anyway. Of course. but it was enough. You know, they said you've you've made reasonable attempts. So that was my main concern. Yeah. I don't believe it didn't end up going to trial. I think he got he went down the mental health path, obviously. And he was he was out on bail for Of course. He was out on bail for the same type of offense where he killed somebody in Gold Coast hospital in the I think it was in just in a normal ward, bailed somebody up in the toilet. Same thing. Same same MO. Stomped that person and he was out. And DPP were dropping the that case against him, but because of this one He made confessions in the interview about the original one and DPP were like, cool, we can proceed with it. Okay. Yeah. You're just gonna let him out otherwise. So if he hadn't a killed this guy, he'd just be out on the street. System scary, you know, mate. The more you know the the worse it's it's insane. It's it's I'm very envious. of people's naivety. absolutely. And I don't mean naivety in an offensive way at all. Absolutely. But God, if I could go back to not having the knowledge I have how we look at things and what you see, life would be very, very different. That's very smooth. I always say once you pull back that veil, you can't unsee it. Yeah. You know, and people that have never done that sort of job can't understand Why I don't let my kids just walk down down the road by themselves. Yeah. You know, why I don't let them have sleepovers unless I know who the parents are and stuff. Because you've seen the worst of humanity. And you immediately think worst of the worst. Absolutely. I can't go near the road, you know, especially with my kids anywhere near the bloody road without assuming that every single car on that road is going to come off the road and run me over and anyone around. It's horrible, isn't it? Like you live in this state of almost anxiety, panic. Yeah. and other people just can't understand it. Yeah. And you think, yeah. Because you're vigilant. You've never been exposed to it. And and thank God you haven't. Yeah, a hundred percent. But all it takes is one instant where you are it something goes wrong. Yeah. And your whole world will change. Hundred percent. Hundred percent. While we're on that topic of that big job you just spoke about then, I can already guess and I touched on it before, but the support for that one, mate, very big job. you know, as far as Counselor, psychologist, psychiatrist, people checking on you a few days off from such a big event, no? No, nothing. Nothing. Just go back to it again. It was, you know, go home, have some sleep, come back that night, you know. There was no check-in, no phone call, not even a text, just to say, hey mate, you know, and and we had that back then we had the peer support officers. You know. So What your thoughts? What were thoughts on those? Well, I never used them. Yeah. If that sort of says anything. Not that the ones at my station were really good and I had a good relationship with them. I probably heard too many bad things about other PSOs. Yeah. That you would disclose this information to them and then they would gossip. Yeah, 100%. You know, so yeah, how am I supposed to trust that this was and and like I said, the ones that I had at my station were great and I could trust them. But I I just yeah, I didn't feel comfortable. I mean, it's an ego thing as well, you know, as men and as police officers, you know, you go, I'm o I'm okay. I'm doing okay. You know, 'cause you don't wanna put your hand up and highlight yourself. So if I said on a different note, proactive policing, let's say good day, you're on a six AM to two PM shift back in the day you started two thousand ten. Let's say it's two thousand eleven, two thousand twelve, good shift there. Six A. What's a shift like, mate? What are you doing from start to finish? Yeah. yeah, so I I started twenty fourteen. So twenty fourteen to twenty eighteen. Watcha. They were the golden years of policing. Yeah. normal shift, six A. You might clean up a couple of jobs that night crew didn't get to, you know, where it's, you know, midnight, one AM DV, you know, they've they've tried to raise them, can't get to Yep. They'll roll it over till the morning. tidy those up, you grab a coffee, tidy those up, and then basically just see what the day brings. Yeah. You know, you're out you might do a few scene exams from some some of the breaks that happened overnight. You know, do neighborhood inquiries. But then you're you're out driving around, you're out patrolling the streets and you know, you pop into the shopping center, do a drive by the shopping center and you see somebody a bit dodgy and you know, you have time to pull you know, get out of a chat. Have a chat, street check put in the area, you know, and be proactive about what we're doing, you know, and and a visual presence made such a difference because if a grub's walking around a car park looking for their next car to steal and they see a police car drive through and then half an hour later another police car drive through, they're going, you know, the police are around. You know, they're gonna there there's a chance we catch Yeah. Or we've spoken to that person, they know that, you know, they're on their ra our radar. Yep. And it stops those offences. You know. yeah, it was the golden era. You know, good crews, you had the flexibility to actually do policing. You jobs would come in for what they were, you know, a disturbance would come in. It's a disturbance. You know, back in the day it was a three one three. And it it was, you know, male and female arguing. You turn up and they're just, you know, they're neighbors or something. Yeah. And you just write it off. You go, Okay, cool. Spoken to both parties, sorted it out, they're happy, write the job off. Now everything comes in as a three one two. Yeah. And and we're now in a world where it doesn't even have to be male and female arguing. It can be two guys arguing, two women arguing, two non binaries, God knows what. And and it comes in as a three one two. And even when it's not a domestic violence related job, it's you're still jumping through fifteen hoops to try and get it changed or you know, because that's that's just the world we live in now. And I I I will never say that domestic violence obviously doesn't deserve that response because it a hundred percent does. What I'm saying is is that we've gone almost beyond careful and we're now actually using up too many resources for jobs that don't require it. Yeah. You know, if it's domestic violence, absolutely devote that crew to that job. But if it's just a couple of people in a street that have no relationship. Just write it off. It shouldn't come back to, you've got to prove this, you know, or did they talk to each other six months ago so there's a relationship. You know, it it's it's almost we're just being too over the top with it, you know, and and I don't see it ever changing. Yeah. You know, so yeah, that was a you know, a normal job, a normal shift back then. Yeah, you get to drive around and talk to a lot of people, pop into the shops that, you know, in your area and talk to the people and build that community policing and say, hey. Has there been anybody, you know, hanging around, any issues? You know, yeah, actually, you know, Joe Bloggs, he was here again. He's banned. Okay, no worries, we'll go look for him. And you know, you build that rapport with people. You got to know the local community members that you're you're supposed to serve. Yeah. You know, the last few years of my policing, there's no time for that. What were you doing your last couple of years? So before I went off I was still generals at at Black Planes and literally you're just a slave to the radio. Yeah. You just you start your shift, you know, six A, you turn up, there's ten D Vs sitting on the system. Really? From any, you know, the last week to, you know, this happened overnight. Gone are the days of okay, we'll hold it over because it's you know, we're responding seven hours later. Yeah. You know, but you turn up and you knock on the door and they go, Yeah, mate, that happened last night. You know, I called this in at eight o'clock, it's now seven AM. What do you want? And they're already on the back foot. Yeah. And they don't care that you go, Well, mate, I've only just started. You know, that they don't see that. They see police. Yeah. yeah, and and you're just going job to job to job. And then you're going back to the station to do paperwork, eating your meal at your desk while you're typing up stuff. And then you're still getting phone calls from comms going, Hey, we've got these jobs. How long are you going to be? Yeah, okay. And it's like You can't have it both ways. You want me to investigate this properly, especially D V. And I gave my full attention to D V. I was a domestic violence liaison officer for the station and and Logan. And so I became a bit of a subject matter expert. Yeah. And, you know, I'm investigating this. You give me this job, that's the job I'm doing. Find somebody else for the other jobs. Yeah. You know, I'm not rushing this because if something goes wrong, that's not a defense on me. You know, I can't then be in a coronial inquest saying, well comms asked me to do this because they'll go, Well, why did you know why didn't you just say no? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like so yeah, so policing has changed a lot. And I think a catalyst was probably COVID. Yeah, okay. You know, I think the commun not just police changed, but the community changed. I feel like we as a society became Towards police or in general? just in general. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I just feel like we became a lot more selfish. You know, everyone is just out for themselves now. Yep. You know? There's always been a sort of dislike towards police, you know, from certain groups and stuff like that and that's fine. but I feel like that stepped it up a notch. Yeah. Because obviously we're you know, we're being made into, you know, whatever they would like officers to medical officers or whatever whatever Queensland Health, you know, dumped on us and it's like I'm a nobody. I didn't receive any extra training. I get an email saying, hey, go and knock on this door and tell not to go anywhere with no PPE. Yeah. But just stand back from the door. Yeah. Just it doesn't or you know, hang on, this is so dangerous. I'm I'm going to die. You know, but you can go here and get this off the board. And then gradually when they because you know, I I was frontline when it first started. And if somebody was a close contact And it was like a close contact of a close contact, then that officer's gone. Yeah. You know, for two weeks or whatever. And then it was like How many how many do you reckon played up on that? mate. So many. You wouldn't believe it, but my uncles, aunties, brothers. Yeah, I was at the shop and this person. and then they realized, God, we we're not gonna end up with anybody. Yeah. And then so they started to scale it back and scale it back. And sc and like now if you got covet, yeah. You just go to work. Yeah. You know, like whereas Initially, 'cause I I got really sick at the start of COVID. Yes. And I like I went to the doctor, he gave me a test and he said I it's only accurate to like fifty percent. He's like, You might have it, it's come back saying you don't, but you know, quarantine yourself. And it was like chaos. Mm. You know, the the hype around was you're gonna die. Okay. You're gonna get covid, you're gonna be really sick, stay in your room, whatever it might be. So, But yeah, you fast forward to now. Yeah. I've got COVID. well, can you still come in? Yeah. You know? Like we just we've brushed it all. So and that's a whole other obviously kettle of fish, but yeah, I feel like it things just changed back then. Yeah. You know, the pressure on QPS just went to the next level. We were already treading water. And then you've done that on us. Like we're not the medical professionals. But And I I think there was a a change or a turn of the tides we spoke earlier about you know my my parents are perfect examples of if it's on the news or it's in the newspaper, it's gospel. It hap it a hundred percent happened. And You know, bless their hearts. There are the country people. Why would they why would they question that? But I think as a result of COVID and things like that, people did start to question mainstream media and other bits and pieces. And obviously being in the unit I was in, you know, we deal with all your protests and things like that. Yeah. And you know, you go to the majority of your protests all all your career and go, yep, no worries, deal with it properly. But bloody that one was hard for me. Yeah. because you were you were seeing and hearing Everyone pitching that with their friends, their family themselves had lost their jobs, you know, everyone had done this and here we are not doing what Melbourne did. well, we just, you know, let them have their pay and just try and keep the peace, so to speak. But it was hard not to agree with them in that. And it certainly got me going, What am I doing? Absolutely. Well, what am I doing here for this? I'm nodding my head with the shit they're saying and going, What here? Yeah. that that started, you know, questioning us too. Absolutely. Well, I mean, in a general s perspective, we were getting jobs of there's five cars parked out the front of a house. Yeah. There's not allowed to be. Go and knock on the door and and you're like, what are we doing? Yeah. Why why is this this isn't a police matter. Yeah. And then you go and knock and they're going, No, they're not our cars or, you know, and head count how many p Is this what like I didn't sign up for this. Yeah. You know, and like you said, you start agreeing to what they're saying and and disagreeing with what directives you're being given. And you're a Queensland government employee. So it's you've got to toe the line, you've got to do this, you know. And even the vaccination drama, the whole scandal about, you know, it's a you know, you have to get it and then it's come out that that's unlawful, you know, like it yeah, it ch it changed. It changed the world and you really I saw it at a station level. Yeah. The Almost like the us versus them, you know, if if a person had said I'm not getting vaccinated, they were ostracized. Yeah. You know, and the the rhetoric around the district was push out. Yeah. You know, they're they're dangerous. You know, and and we haven't come back from that. You know, QPS can't come back from that because you push that on everybody. So, yeah, I do miss the golden days. Yeah. and you Obviously you don't realise that you're in the golden days until they're gone. Until they're gone. and I think that's what I struggled with the most when I went off work and when I was trying to come back was I was still thinking, this is what policing, you know, this is what I miss. I miss that five years from twenty fourteen to twenty nineteen, but it's gone. Yeah. And what I'd be coming back to is not that. And you just touched on when you come back, you had a break, did you? Yeah. So I'd come back. I I was 2022, everything was going well. I was starting to feel burnt out. Yeah. but I think that's most coppers these days is because the workload is just so much. Yeah. And I'd gone through a divorce, which was so emotionally draining. Yeah. and then was taking on first years in their training mental period as well, which again is so draining because you're basically doing the job twice whilst taking care of somebody going to the worst end of the jobs too because you needed them for their books. Absolutely. You know, and every copper in the district knows that you've got a first year and you're getting, hey, they need this be good for them. Yep. So but yeah, when you're going and I you know I was happy to train those people. And I I'd become a a D FTO, a district firearms training officer, because I loved helping people. Yeah. I Hated or not hated shooting, but I wasn't comfortable shooting initially. And I was like, the only way to get better is to do it more. So I put my hand up and went on the course. Where you shoot you'd know something like 3,000 rounds in a week and whereas now you shoot 60 rounds a year. Yeah. You know, ridiculous. Yeah. And we expect people to be competent, proficient and competent. Yeah. And c and confident. Yeah. And that's the biggest thing. And I really I love the feeling of helping people out on the range and settling those nerves. Cause it is a nerve-wracking thing. Cause you get told, if you don't pass, we're taking your gun. Yeah. And then you gotta go back to the station and you're gonna do counter and people are gonna go, my god, she can't shoot, he can't shoot, whatever. So I really enjoyed that element. So I took on first years. Yeah. and look, they turned out pretty good. but it's a lot, you know, it's such an emotional thing to take on because you you form a really close bond with them. You know, you're their their lifeline in those first few weeks. Yep. You know, and and you can see I was not one of those FTOs who took advantage of, you know, junior officers like there are out there. But you can understand why they get that emotional connection to you. Definitely. Because you are the one protecting them at jobs and stuff. So, but it takes its toll, you know, and there's only so many you can do before you you start you're exhausted mentally, you know. so I did that and Went to a job in twenty twenty two in July. It was a Sunday morning again. We were six to two. I was with her a first year. She was I wasn't her mentor, but her mentor had gone sick. Okay. So I had her for the shift. And she was, I think, just in the end of her eight weeks. And she came from child safety. So just a I say just, but she was a behind like a sort of admin person. Yeah so she wasn't necessarily exposed to a heap of stuff. and we went to a job came in, we were helping branch out with a stolen car, phone rang and it was private number, which you know is always comms. And I still trigger, I hate getting phone calls from private numbers now, as I don't know if you're the same. I don't answer Yeah. 'cause I just immediately think of work. called and it was comms and she said, Hey, I'm really sorry to give you this. But we've got a sudden death job. And I was like, that's okay. Thinking, that's weird. Why is she giving she goes, it's a it's a three-year-old boy. And I was like, I had a two and a half year old at the time. And so said, Okay, we gotta go. Jumped in the car. I'd never had a child death job. And I'm with a first year who hasn't been exposed to anything. And I'm supposed to be the one instructing through this. Thankfully I had a really good shift supervisor. He was gonna respond as well. but it was still I was so out of my depth. You know, I'm at eight years by this point. I'm a s senior Connie, I'm pushing promotion for sergeant, like I'm getting shortlisted for sergeant, like I'm at the top of my game, so to speak. And suddenly I'm driving there going, I don't know what to do. Yeah. You know? still remember it, turn up, Ambos, three Ambos waiting out the front. They just have this absolute heartbreak on their face and you just I just didn't want to be there. You know what I mean? Like you just like if I could teleport anywhere. 100%. I would. Yeah. you know get the briefing from them. Basically what's happened is it was actually a one year old little boy. He parents had been out to a Christmas party, Christmas in July, the night before, with the kids, come home, put them to bed. He was in the bottom bed on a bunk bed. But it was short from the wall, so it didn't go the length of the wall. Okay. So at but at the end of the bed they put a heap of teddies down to basically if in case he fell over, he didn't hurt himself. He overnight he's crawled to the end of the bed, fallen into the teddies, and suffocated. So in the morning, the grandma lived there. in the morning, mum's gotten up to go and get the boy, gone into the room, couldn't find him. Thought, it's he always You know, grandma always comes and gets him, so he'll be in bed with grandma. Gone in there, where's so and so? He's not here. They start freaking out, going, Where is he? As he left the house, as he you know, and then they go back into his room and there he is lying face down in Teddy's. And it was just the most heartbreaking job I've ever been to. And there is nothing on this earth that could prepare anybody for that. let alone police trying to walk in to do your job going I have no words. Yeah. You know? Like I walked in and I I'd prepared myself on the drive there, walked in and it caught my breath. As soon as I walked in I went 'cause the dad was just sitting on the ground, holding his little boy sobbing. And how do you how do you, you know, deal with that? No, you can't mate. It was yeah, I and I you know, I knew that I had I was the senior officer, so I knew I had to step up and you know, we've we spoke off air about, you know, putting on a mask and yeah and I put on this mask and not very well, but I put it on and you know, went up and started talking through it and following the process that we would follow as a normal job and you know, checking out the room and and one of the biggest skills that police have is to disassociate yeah on a job. You know, we can compartmentalize and remove ourselves from it so that we don't go, I've got this. I walked into that little boy's room and I could not do that. Yeah. I was like, this reminds me of my boys. Yes. I have the same dresses, I have, you know, same blankets, same toys, you know, and that just it just tore the mask off again, you know, and I'm trying to be professional because they deserve that. And the little boy deserves that. Yeah. You know, but I've also still got to do You know, I've got to do my job properly. and it was yeah, it was awful. You know, I I took lead, obviously I said to the first year I've got all of this. She was brilliant though. She pulled out a notebook and she was taking and but then I'd never experienced the other side of it from the policing side, like the phone calls, like to CPIU who want all of this. They're calling child safety after hours contacts, D DO's calling up, hot coming in, you know, multiple SOCO, like so many different people that wouldn't normally attend. Yeah. And you're having to relive and tell the same story over and over again. Yeah. yeah, it was it was so confronting. And I still remember it. I went outside to brief the DDO. And as I came back in, I stopped at the front door and I I just took a breath because I was, you know, on the verge of tears and stuff. And the grandma was standing at the door. And she looked at me and she said, Can I make you a cup of coffee? And I was I it broke me. I you know, it started tearing up and I said, no, thank you. But I was like, in your worst moment, in your absolute worst moment on this planet, you have the courtesy to offer me yeah a coffee. Do you know what I mean? Like and I was like, this is so unfair. Yeah. This whole scenario is so unfair. They did that, they put the teddies at the bed to help him, as most parents would, because you wouldn't think of that, you know, and it's cost them everything. And you know, they were sitting there telling me about him how he'd only had his first birthday party a week beforehand and and w what do you say to that? Yeah. You you can't say anything. I was just sitting there and I listened and and then, you know, the next part, Soccos come in and they want photos taken. And, you know, for anyone who obviously hasn't gone through that, you've got to, you know, it doesn't matter what age the person is, you've got to basically take their clothes off and make sure that there's no injuries or anything like that. And I'm undressing a one-year-old boy, you know, and I'm holding his hand and touching his feet and brushing his hair out of his eyes as if he were my own. Yeah. You know, because I've got my and I'm thinking it's I I cannot separate myself. I'm thinking, this could be my child, you know, and I'm I'm doing all of that and making sure that I'm dressing him, you know, properly and and yeah, like it's I remember every element of that shift, of that, that job. Like I Everything down to the last T, you know, like it will stick with me forever. And for for years I still have nightm or not nightmares, but I still have flashbacks, dreams where he he's there. I'm at the job. Or he's like talking to me. He'd be five now. Yeah. You know, on every every year on his on that day, you know, I take a moment and, you know, I pour myself a drink and sort of, you know, say thank you for what I have. You know, but I can't help but think about where he would be. You know, and on on that day where I'm so thankful for what I have, his parents are probably tearing themselves open and revisiting that horrible day. Yeah. You know. So but yeah, mate, that was the that was the tipping point for me. So you went home from that shift, mate. Yeah. So I remember going back to the st back to the station to do the paperwork. Yeah. And as we said, you've still got there's still yeah you know, that side of it. Yeah. Got back to station, I said to the first year, look, I'll I'll write it up. You know, I was I was pretty good at my job, you know, and was like, I'm not gonna subject you to that. I don't wanna traumatise you any more than you have to, but you're sitting there typing it what I saw, you know, what what you know, I'd undressed him and dressed him and so you gotta put all that on paper again. So it's triggering it all again. Yeah. And I remember the afternoon crew coming in and they're like, Hey man, how's your shift? And I was like, Shit. And they're like, why? And you know, I'm normally upbeat and positive and I said, had a child death. And they everyone just went, yeah. You know, and it was just like silence. And they're like, You okay? And I was like, nah. But and then that was it. I was like, I don't want to talk about it. Yep. Finished. I don't think I even said goodbye to anybody. D kit, got in the car. Yeah. Drove about a hundred meters down the road, burst into tears. Cried, bored my eyes out the entire way to And I picked up my boys. It was my sort of weekend to get the boys. Yeah. And picked them up, you know, red face and you know, what's wrong? nothing. Like gave them a massive hug. Yeah. You know, and just didn't want to let go. You know, and then had my nephew's birthday party that afternoon. My wife was at work and she turned up and she said, Are you okay? And I was I was like, Let's go inside. Yeah. And got inside and I just broke down again. And that continued for six weeks. That that sort of emotional Yeah. I had no control over it. I'd just be I'd be doing anything and just burst into tears. And but did you make an attempt to go back to work? You you felt that? You you talking about that f sort of first Yeah. I so I I went the Sunday and I had the Monday and the Tuesday off. Yeah. And so I was due to go back to work on the Wednesday. Yeah. And I remember saying to like calling work and saying, I'm sick. I 'cause I can't I can't come in. Yeah. And I was like, I think it's COVID. Cause I was like, at least that gives me about a week. Yeah. And I was like, I'm happy to work from home. You know, if someone can drop me a laptop, I'll do file management and stuff like that. I should have just said no. Yeah. But I was like, no, too proud, too proud. Didn't want to I guess accept myself that something was wrong. Yeah. So I was like, I can work from home, that's fine. So I did that for a week and then yeah, went back. And I but I just wasn't the same. Every time that radio crackled or the iPad pinged, I was terrified that I was gonna get another child death. Yeah. And I had a dead body, like the second shift back. What was the after that incident? And that is a large, a big incident. The contact from everyone that should contact you. What was the support like? There was none. None. None. No. There was an email sent from my shift supervisor that day. Yeah. To my OIC and to the EDO, the training officers. Yeah. because obviously I had the first year, saying they've attended this job. Very traumatic. They both held themselves really well. However, they both have young children and this officer is in her first year mental period. It would be prudent that everyone checks in on them to make sure they're doing okay. Yeah. Do you think I got anything? I reached out, I think it was a week and a half later, to the head PSO for Logan and said, I'm not coping. This is the job I went to. Nobody has checked in on me. Like I don't know what to do. And I got a phone call and it was like, yep, this is all normal. How are you feeling is normal, you know? It was a phone call for He's a senior sergeant now. And he's look, he's a he's a good guy, He's he was the head peer so I don't know if he still is. a good guy. I just don't know if they were equipped to know what was right. Yeah. So Look, this is normal. It's normal to feel this for sort of four to six weeks. You should have somebody should have reached out to you, but again, fell through the cracks. think the PSOs at the station they were on leave or something so it sort of just didn't go to anybody. Yeah. And I s and I look I had a good relationship with and that's why I emailed him and said, like, I'm telling you this 'cause I need help. Like something's not right. Yeah. Like my wife was like, You can't keep doing this. Like we need to get you help. And so he was like, Yep, it'll you'll be okay. You know, it'll subside in sort of four to six weeks. If it isn't, we'll then look at getting you some help after that. What? Yeah. So he called me a week later for about a five minute phone call. How you going? And I said, Yep, still exactly the same. Okay, no worries, I'll check in with you next time, next week. And I never heard from him again. So I didn't get a phone call. So I just got left to my own devices. Yeah. My OAC never checked in on me. Yeah. Never. The first year quit in the week Two afterwards. Because of that. Yep. She just said, I can't deal with this. And she went back to child safety. So we lost a good officer. What would have been a good officer. Yeah. But yeah, nobody checked in on her. I did. Yeah. Nobody else did. And then I was just back into generals. Just going to jobs. Being told by someone that's not skilled or trained in a role that four to six weeks is the prescribed brush it off. It's normal. And on my but I'm You know, now driving to work. Yeah. So anxious. Sitting in the car park before work crying, going, I can't, I don't know if I can do this, but not wanting to go sick because I'm you know, I don't want to let anybody down. 100%. And then putting on the mask and walking in and being more jovial. Yeah. How you how you going like? good, yeah. How are you? Yeah. yeah, look, yeah, ke keen for this shift, blah, blah, blah. Finish the shift, get in the car, same thing. Yeah. Cry on the way home. For six weeks and you're like Okay, I'm at the six week mark now. It's not normal. It's still going, obviously. Yeah. And it was up to me. Like I went and got I sought help. You know, 'cause I've always been very proactive with my mental health. But nobody else like I never had any contact. I never had any support. And explain to me what we've spoken about before. Explain the movie The Mask and how that relates to this situation 'cause I think it's sp perfect. Yeah, so for those who are older, like myself, there was a movie back in the nineties, I think Jim Carrey, the mask. And in it, he puts on the green mask, becomes this other person. Smoke. Yeah. But as he the longer he leaves it on, the harder it is to take it off. And so that's what I started to liken it to. The longer I put on this mask at work, the fallout afterwards was getting longer. So I would go to work, put on my mask, I'd be happy, upbeat, whatever, and then I'd take it off to get in the car, come home, and I would struggle. And then as I was starting to deteriorate, that time that I would take it off would last longer. So there were days where I couldn't get myself sorted before the next shift. And then it took out the next day, then the next day. And then before I knew it, it was nonstop. You know, I just I couldn't handle anything. My emotional bandwidth was maxed out. You know, so small things. I mean, you mentioned it earlier about, you know, you go home and and there's a towel unfolded. Yeah. And that's brilliant because and you blow up at it or you you go, my God, like and it becomes the biggest thing in your world. But it's because of all the stuff behind the scenes. So I saw myself starting to to spiral. Like I was I was drinking more. I'm not an alcoholic and I've never been like a heavy drinker, but I was definitely drinking more. I wasn't sleeping. It had cracked that armor that we all put on. Yeah. And all of the past jobs that I'd been to started to come out. Yeah. And I started having flashbacks. You know, I I'm in my shed and I've found some rope and I was at a scene of a hanging. Yeah. You know, and I'm there. And, you know, all these things I I didn't think had affected me were starting to come out. Yeah. You know, and I'm I'm seeing a psychologist at this point. I'm talking to them. He's going, Hey mate, you you need to go off work. And I'm like, but I'm on the cusp of a sergeant promotion. Now I'm getting shortlisted for multiple sergeant spots. And I'm like, if I know Stigma in the QPS, as much as they sit there and say our people matter, we don't. Yeah. And I was like, if I go off on mental health, I can kiss my Sergeant Spot goodbye. Yeah. And I so I just kept pushing through. I'm like, I'm okay. Get through to December. I've got leave over Christmas. It'll be fine. Had leave over Christmas, had like two or three weeks off. I feel great. Come back within one shift. I was back down, rock bottom. Yeah, right. But then I got shortlisted for another role. So I'm like, I've got hang in there, you know, just gotta, you know, it's small it it went from make it the next couple of months to make it this week to make it this shift. You know, like just get me there. Yep. You know, and I'm I'm sort of weighing up, okay, I I want this sergeant spot, but I'm also battling suicidal ideation. Yeah. Now I'm driving home and I've picked out the tree I'm gonna drive into. You know, and that's and then I'm going home to my wife and three boys. Or, you know, two boys at the time. Yeah. And you're going, I feel so selfish. There are people who are struggling, have lost a loved one, have cancer, you know, dying, whatever it might be. I have none of that. Yeah. And yet I am contemplating not being here. Yeah. How selfish of me to feel like that when there are other people who would kill to be in my position. You know, and it It it's hard. It's hard to to rationalise with yourself like that. Yeah. So I I persisted until February. I I was relieving at that point in the lead up to Christmas, I'd put my hand up and said, Can I go off the road to D Tac? So for anyone who doesn't know what D Tac is, it's like a communication sort of it's a bridging point between the crews and comms. So Logan had rolled out the SDRP or whatever it was, where they're trying to reinvent the wheel, magically, you know, find all these coppers to do all these jobs. And D Tac was set up to basically manage that side of things and and you know, work crews and make bookings and stuff like that. So I I was relieving sergeant there and it was helping, but I had to turn the radio off because anytime I'd hear a job and I remember there was one job of a child choking in Eagleby, it was code one, crews going there, yeah, and it sent me into a hundred spiral. Yeah. You know, and I it got to the point where I was having the panic attacks, like the tunnel vision, you know, I'm sitting at my computer and it's this big and you know, and I'm sitting there going, I'm not I I don't know what to do, like I'm not coping. And and then the OIC at the time, she was acting sergeant, she'd gone up to acting senior sergeant, she went on leave and she was like, You're gonna be acting senior sergeant. And I was like, That's pretty unheard of to relieve two ranks up. Yeah. And I was like, I can't. Can't go off. I've got to do this. You know, it's great for my career progression, blah, blah, blah. So I did like two weeks of that. Yeah. And at the end I was like, nah, I'm done. It was it was just too much. You just knew. I was just like, I can't, I can't do this. But what was frustrating was I was working in Logan District headquarters. So I was upstairs. Yeah. From everyone from the chief super to all the other inspectors, working with them, having conversations with them every day for two weeks. I went off crickets. I didn't hear from anybody. Yeah. Anybody. For like six months. Yep. And it wasn't until I put a Facebook post up saying this is what I've gone through and basically putting a call out to anybody else who's serving that was struggling that if you need someone to talk to, you're there. I'm there. Yeah. Because I know that there's no support. Yeah. The very next day, somebody took my post into the chief and she texts me. She sent me a text. I'd never, I'd never, like, we're not on that sort of relationship. Yeah. She sends me a text. Hi, Blake. I only text those that I feel like close to. I'm like, you wouldn't pick me up. I could walk past you in a hallway and you would not know who I am. Yeah. And she was like, I just wanted to say, you know, it's so, you know, commendable that you've put this post up and offering support. And you're so valued in our district. And if there's anything I can do, you know. Don't feel obliged to reply though. You know, some people feel you know it's hard to talk to bosses, but I'm always here for you. And I was like, are you serious? Like, I've served eight, nine years in this district. I've never caused an issue. I've never had one complaint in the entirety of my career, and that was dismissed. Never rocked the boat. I've worked with you guys in in your office for two weeks. You've seen the type of officer I am. You've obviously said that I can do the job adequately, that I can relieve two ranks up. And no one checked in. And I didn't reply, because it wouldn't have been a nice message reply. But that was it. Yeah. And OIC, crickets, offered the world. But when I called him on it, nothing. Union, nothing. Yeah, right. Nobody. Literally nobody. The only person even injury management, hopeless. Yeah. Hey Blake. How's your ankle going? Yeah, no, my ankle's fine. How's my head? sorry. Yeah, I've mixed you up. I might, you didn't even read my file. You didn't even read my file before you've called me. Yeah. You know, and then it was just one kick in the guts after another. You know, I go to a a psychol a psychiatrist appointment and he goes, I've just got this report request from QPS injury management, basically saying, like, are you fit to return to work if you're not, you know. What are what are we gonna do with you? And that was at like the six month mark. Yeah. And I was completely blindsided. And I called injury management and I said, How dare you? it's just procedure. And I said, then let me know. Yeah. Just just send me an email and say, Hey Blake, it's procedure that at the six month mark we send, you know, a re report to your psychiatrist just to get an update. And I go, No worries. Instead I walk in and feel like I'm being railroaded out the door. Yeah. You know, and yeah, it just put everything into perspective about where you sit with the organization. I mean, I should have known because they tried to get rid of me in my first year. Yes. I got sick in my first year, just out of the academy. Yep. And, you know, naive. I thought they were I thankfully I had a really good OIC in Edo at the time. And he was very much for the troops. He was an old school senior sergeant, been there forever. And he basically just pulled me aside one day and said, they're trying to get rid of you. Yeah, right. Like putting you in a show cause. Because I had I'd contracted a virus when I left the academy and it had attached itself to my pancreas. Right. So I'd picked up my my liver enzymes and all that had skyrocketed. And I was in so much pain because everything was inflamed. And I the amount of times I was accused of being a alcoholic or a drug abuser and stuff like that. Like I ended up in hospital and they were like, you know, how much have you drunk? And I said It wasn't until I'd say, I'm a police officer. They're like, my God, I'm so sorry. Yeah. and yeah, as a result of that, I had, you know, a fair few sick days. And I didn't think anything of it because I was entitled to them. Yeah. And then I get, yeah, this show calls that basically saying you've got to go see the FMO, the forensic medical officer, and he's gonna make a determination as to whether or not you continue in your first year or if we get because obviously being a first year, they can get rid of you. Yeah. And so I was like, Okay, no worries. Drove to Brisbane. Sat with a guy who was probably eighty-five years old and he poked and prodded. How is it? Yeah, it's fine. Is it sore? No, no, it's all it's all good. It did. It hurt like hell. And he went, Yeah, you're fine. All right, no worries. Signed his letter and that was it. But I should have known back then that instead of supporting me, yeah, they would just go, you're too hard, we'll get rid of you. So yeah, so yeah, mate. You don't you don't realise unfortunately until it's too late and it's a tough thing. Like you how many years in the job were you at this time when this So I was eight years. Eight years in, you know. So you're pretty committed to the trauma you've seen, you've dealt with, you've absorbed along the way, your career progression, everything else. It's not like it was, for instance, your first year who's gone early on and seen, I'm not gonna put up with this, I've had that early on. Yep. It's not as simple. It's just going, Yeah, I'm gonna throw the towel in, I'm gonna quit this, I'm gonna do that. You're so invested in that and that's potentially with car loans, house repayments, family, there's so many things that tie you into a job that you don't wanna do any longer and you are so torn and feel guilty and You battle away and you do, you get to the point you push through it. I don't want to let my teammates down. it it's yeah, the guilt you carry, there's so many bits and pieces. But what's the most insulting bit that sticks with you is that and everyone says it is you're just a number. And you you know, it's not until something drastic happens to you that's very important, life changing, yeah, that you really realize that because As I said about Mum and Dad, they see stuff on the news. We only ever saw, let's say, the union on the news a critical incident and go, you know, we back our troops, we do this, we do that and you go, Well, why would I question that? Because I'm not around that. But every time they are, they're on the news and they're saying that, you beauty. That's how it is. And it's not again, till you're in the trenches, you got your hand up, you're asking for help. Yep. Yeah. That you you left high and dry. And it's not, you know, I remember coming into the station in my first year and you see the jaded senior connies who are telling you that and you go, no. Yeah. And I was the best job ever. I was the same. Like for eight years, I was like, No, like I haven't experienced any of that. Yeah. And then when I my moment of need, it's like, why why have I invested so much? And you're right, like your whole world is built around your job. Like That's what everyone does. Obviously, yeah. You take out car loans or mortgages or whatever based on what you're earning and stuff. So as much as you go, my mental health is important, in reality, you're like, but I finance, like the bank doesn't care. Yeah. The bank don't go, you're suffering mentally. that's okay. We don't pay your mortgage. They're like, mate, you're just gonna default on it. So there's all those behind the scenes battles whilst still truck juggling that at work, you know, and I can definitely, I said to you before, I can definitely now relate to why people take that final step. As as horrible as it sounds, to take their own life, because you just feel so helpless. Yeah. You know, and if I didn't have my wife and my kids, I wouldn't be here. Yeah. You know, I was driving around. picking out trees that I can make it look like I've lost control of my car to so that they would still get my life insurance because I knew if I did a suicide by any other way, I wouldn't get my my payout. Yeah. You know, and I didn't want to leave them high and dry. As a thirty-eight year old at the time, like that's a horrible thing to be driving around thinking about. And those thoughts just rolling through your head, is today the day. And you're at that you're at that extent as a result of a role or something you went and saw. You've reached out, you've followed procedure. You've been told, suck it up, four to six weeks, you'll be good. Shake it out. You've then realized it's further. You've followed the bouncing ball. You know, you you're off for a period of time. You're working through things, but you're still at that point. And I put a post up about this the other day about and we'll go into detail here about medical retirement stuff. But someone made a really good point. the fact that we don't have obviously a pension or Yeah, an anything post retirement, blue cards, gold cards. And someone put the comment up if you break it, you fix it. And it was it just sat with me like, that's so true. You know, you go maybe not now, but you go into a shop, you know, your parents were always telling you, Behave in here, you knock that off, you have to pay for it. As silly as it sounds, it's it's the truth. The job broke you. Yep. They should be required to fix pay for that break for the rest of the Absolutely. The time. And and it's there's nothing there. And it's it makes me sick to think that that's the case. And it's it's ridiculous, you know, and even accessing work cover, you're made to feel like they're doing you a favor. Yeah. And it's like, but this is the minimum requirement that you have to do. Yeah. You know, work cover on their end, I have to say, I had a fantastic claim manager. Okay. And he was brilliant. Like he he didn't hassle me for anything. He was very much f he's probably not there anyway, I probably booted him 'cause he was too good at his job. Yeah. but he was he was so focused on helping me. Yeah, right. And not the the paperwork side of things. Okay. Like he was like, what do you need? I will get it approved and sort it out. He was the only one in the whole process that helped me. And that wasn't QPS injury management. No, no, no. That was actually work cover. Okay. Yeah. So he was brilliant. I wouldn't know much about them, that's all. So Yeah, yeah. yeah, look, and I'd I'd been on work cover once when I did my knee, yeah. Back in twenty twenty. And the case manager I had then was far different. He was very much, we've got to get you back and I need you to come back. I don't care if you're not fit, yeah. You're coming back. And they they were pushing to basically get you off work cover. Because I I don't know how true it is, but I've been told that they they get bonuses or whatever for case clearances. Yeah, right. So could be a urban myth, but No, I believe it I believe it's true. I had a a friend of mine, she was in that and she yeah ad admitted that that's the case. Which is ridiculous. It's it's disgusting to think that if you rush somebody back to work when they're not ready, we'll reward you. Yeah. so my yeah, my case manager, out of everyone, he was the only one that actually helped me. Yeah. injury management, I mean, I guess they did their job. Yeah. Just. but they're swamped as well. They have something like 20 odd clients or whatever. And and I remember having this blow up with one of them because I said when that psychiatrist had blindsided me with the report and I put it on her and said, you know, you should be letting me know. She goes, well, it's a two-way street, Blake. You should be calling me and telling me where you're at. And I was like, that what do you understand mental health? Do you understand what you're being paid for? Yeah, like that's your job. Yeah. Your job is to check on me. Why should I call you a stranger and say, Hi, can you please care about me in your job and this is where I'm at? And she subsequently, I put in a complaint, she was no longer mine. my case manager. but that, you know, that was the the feeling was that I was just an inconvenience. Okay. You know, and then yeah, I it went through to obviously at the 12 month mark on work cover, I think they drop your wage down to like 75%. So having been on, you know, TA and stuff or night allowances and all that for the whole time and built my life around getting that paycheck. To drop to 75%, I'm now losing money. Yeah. You know, and I I thought, okay, well, I'll go to injury management and I'll access the sick bank. Yes. You know, which for anyone who doesn't know, it's basically you, I guess you have to contribute however many sick days out of your sick days every year. It goes into a bank that other officers can access. So I was like, cool. You know, I've heard so many people use it and abuse it. I'm gonna access it just to boost up my wage. Yeah. Injury management come back and go. you can't do that. And I said, why? it was changed in the last E B. You're now not able to unless you are returning to work. Unless you have a return to work plan in place. Okay. That you cannot access sick leave bank. Right. And I was like I don't remember that being in the E B PowerPoint when they were preaching about you're gonna get this payer eyes. And very last slide apparently is what I've been told. Okay. well it's your fault that you didn't check it. And I was like, but you you guys never mentioned it. Yeah. You made you all you talked about was we're gonna get you all this money, but you didn't tell anybody what you took away. And the amount of coppers I've spoken to that still had no idea. Yeah. And you're like, That says something. That says more than just me missed it. So then I had to use my sick leave to basically boost my wage up so I'm not defaulting on loans and stuff like that. And yeah. You know, and so I'm doing all of that. You know, I whilst trying to recover from a mental health injury, you know, where your brain is, you know, I've been diagnosed with complex PTSD, severe depression and anxiety at this point. I can't leave the house. Yeah. Like I don't I can't go to the shops. I have to do everything click and collect or delivered. I can't drive my car for more than 10, 15 minutes at a time because my mental capacity just wasn't there, my concentration. Yeah. And I, you know, you spent hours driving police car. Couldn't do that. I wasn't able to talk to friends and stuff like that in the job because the boss had basically said to them, just leave him. Yes. You know, or we don't want to, you know, cause any issues with him. Yeah. But all that does is isolate me. Yeah. My family didn't really understand it, you know, they don't want to talk about mental health. It scares them. So I'm like, cool. I'm sitting at home, like you said, surrounded by four walls. I can't do anything. I can't talk to anyone. What what am I supposed to do? Yeah. You know, and and you just sit there and you dwell on it and you stew in your own thoughts and and that brain that's supposed to ground you and use all your techniques that your psychologist said to, you know, bring you back to reality is now going, Fuck reality. Yeah. You're a piece of shit. Your family deserves better. Why are you here? You know, like your kids are gonna see you and they're gonna think you're weak. Your missus, she deserves better. And and you just spiral. Yeah. And you're just sitting in your house going, Yeah, maybe I should end my life. Maybe I should. Maybe I'll get in the car and you know, I also picked out a truck that parked on the side of the road. I'm like, I'll I've I went to a job with that. I'll d I'll do that. Yeah, like those sorts of things. Yeah. But, you know, on the outside, people are going, yeah, he's okay. Like it's okay. They see the outside shell, mate. Yeah. And then, you know, the other annoying thing was people that I'd considered friends, yeah, weren't checking in, but they were asking other people how I was doing and sort of like they don't want to check in with me, but they want to know where I'm at. Yeah. And so, well, message me. Yeah. I don't need a phone call and we talk for four hours to D D and But like send me a text. Hey bro, how you been? What's going on? That can that can change someone of mood massively. And then it's on me and I don't feel pressured to reply. I'll reply when I feel comfortable. Yeah. as opposed to a phone call where I'm like, I don't want to talk. Yeah. So, you know, it's yes or no, answer or not. Whereas a text, I can be like, hey, yeah, I'm struggling, whatever. But people just don't get that. Yeah. You know, and I think I understand that from a public perception. Because they don't deal with mental health a lot. But coppers deal with it all the time. Yeah. You know, and we're not trained, you know, everyone goes, you receive so much extra training. Yeah, it it's a frustration side of mine. And I see it a lot, you know, you put these posts up all the time. People go, Well, if you can't hack it in the job, go hack what, mate. Sorry, hack what. That's my biggest bug there is the you knew what you signed up for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like okay, run that mentality the next time a truck driver gets killed. Yeah. In a car cra in a truck crash. And go, well, view the risks. That's part of the job. Yeah. I didn't sign up to be spat at, kicked, punched, abused. I understand they're part of the job, but at the end of the day, I'm still a human. Yeah. Like there's there's always gonna be that emotional fallout from it. Yeah. You know, and you realize very early on in your career that people don't like the uniform and not to take it personally. Yeah. You know, and that's fine. But yeah, these people that jump on social media and go, Yeah, well It's like do you hold that same energy for our veterans for our defense veterans? Because they knew what they were signing up for. You know, and that I I'll never take I saw your post the other day about yeah, the gold card and stuff like that. And I'll never take that away from veterans. Yeah. My psych said to me the other day something really interesting though. He said when he went during COVID, he went through the, you know, the roadblock at the Gold Coast on the border. Yes. Yep. And the defense were there. And he spoke to one of the young guys who was there on on deployment. And he said, you know, you seem happy and this guy said, Yeah, why wouldn't I be? He said, This counts as an overseas deployment. He said, So when I retire, I get full benefits. Wow. Okay. And am I standing beside you? Yes. Doing the same job. Doing the exact same job and they get nothing. sorry, I got COVID medal. Ai, beauty. You know, I I wear that with pride while I'm emergency mowing my lawn. Yeah. so yes. I want a photo of that. Just as a pistol. But you know what I mean? Like we go, Yes, we know what we signed up for, and thank God we did. Thank God me, you, thousands of other people put our hands up for those sorts of jobs. Because could you imagine society if we didn't? Definitely. Yeah, it's and it's easy to be an armchair critic. Like how many times you say, why didn't they shoot him in the kneecap and blah blah blah? And you're like, You ain't stalking my profile SP No it's a like it's a massive bug and the worst thing about it is when you're in the job, yeah, you cannot say anything on social media because social media rules prohibit you. So you just have to sit there and read and you know, probably shouldn't read it, but it it involves everything in our world. Yeah. And you read the comments and you think How ungrateful are these people in the comments? And I know there are good people out there, but only the bad ones comment, you know, and they're the ones that it's hard not to take it personally. Yeah. And you think, why bother doing this job anymore then? Yeah, it yeah. It's a frustration of mine is the count the armchair critics. It's just accountability. The fact there is none. They can shoot their mouth off. And look, I've years ago I was very worked up, a little fake. Back before Twitter. Back when it was called Twitter, before it was X, you know. I used have a fake account. That was my way of you know, being able to post and and do things without getting in trouble and y it's just Yeah, I I've gotten better at never biting back down. And you look at these people, they haven't got a profile photo up, zero posts, eight followers, and you just go, yeah, no dramas. Yeah. but doesn't mean for that one moment it's not in the head when you read it and you do that and the fact there is no accountability, but it's it's trying to find the mechanisms to assist you in not allowing that to get to you and and get through. And the funny thing is, as worked up as we can be as cops, we go to some of the most Abusive sort of things all day. We'll be called a lot worse, but we've been offended by this one post up here. It's like that that bit I mentioned before that we can see the most severe trauma in a day and you come home to the most minute thing and you lose the plot over it. Yeah, social media's that way and I don't think there's enough training or accountability around it. And the irony is that the people that are normally posting those comments are the ones that the ones using police use police all the time. Yeah. You know, but they hate us. Mate, I after my original I don't like calling it an accident 'cause it wasn't an accident, it was playing, you know, when I was run over and I recovered and I went back to work, my intention was to do back then, 2019, what I'm doing now with these podcasts. But obviously you have your hands tied because you can't legally speak up and things like that. But a big part of it was to bring awareness that people aren't alone and and struggling. Like you said, I was between four walls. I had my license banned. I hadn't nowhere I could go due to my accident. I'm just sitting at home. And it would have helped me so much to hear people that are in the job That sound the same way so I'm not beating myself up going I'm the issue, you know, it's isolated, whatever. To hear that you've got your people that have been through been in the trenches beside you that has have the same struggles makes the most ridiculous relief, as silly as it sounds, to go, okay, it's not just me. Absolutely. Well and because all you do is you push that back onto yourself and you go, Why am I weak? You know, this person has been in the same time or longer. They've seen worse. Yeah. They they're okay. So it's just me. I'm the weak one. But and on the same, when I started my page, the biggest thing that I've realized is that everyone's struggling. Yeah. It's just we all keep it to ourselves. Yeah. And the amount of people, Coppers, not just coppers, but predominantly coppers, have messaged and said, like, I relate to that, like you've nailed it, you know. But I've had people from all over the world. comment. Yeah. You know, and people I've had a spoke to talking to a guy the other day from Canada talking to me about his sort of issues at home and stuff like that. And that's the thing, like mental health doesn't discriminate. It's not, you know, located to one area. Yeah. So many people are doing it tough. It's just different, you know, triggers basically. Definitely. Yeah. No two people are the same. Yeah. And more importantly, while we touch on that bit, there is no two treatments. That will assist people the exact same way. Yeah. And and I think that's a really good point is that with mental health injuries, it is not a linear recovery. So what works for you won't work for me. Might not work for me. Yeah. The medication you're on might not work for me. You know, I tried medication and some work, some don't. Mm-hmm. it's not and I think that's the problem is that people go, if you have a broken ankle, I can see it healing. Yes. And it's getting better and your strength is coming up and all the all the boxes are ticked. Whereas mental health, you can be going really well and then have a really bad run. Something sets you off and you feel like you've gone back to the start. And people around you just go, what's he doing? Like you know, he's playing up to it again or something like that. You know, and you you feel like a bit of a burden. Whereas if you've got a broken ankle and you go, I pushed it too hard, I'm sore today, they go, well, sit down, like put your foot up, like rest. Don't, don't do that. But mental health is different, you know. And yeah, I think it's really important. I I am a prime candidate or c case study of trying to bottle it up and it will not go away. Yeah. You know, and I I was doing everything right. And I still broke. And I the biggest thing I struggle with, yeah, why me? Not not in a poor me, I'm a victim. Yeah. It was why am I so weak? What could I have done better to be stronger? Yeah. You know, and the ego thing, like my wife is still a serving police officer. Okay. Do you know how much ego it takes out of you that she walks out the door to go and do the job? And we joined at the exact same time. Yeah, right. The ego and it's nothing more than ego, you know, but I sit there and go. How weak am I that my wife can go and keep everyone safe? Yeah. And here I am, you know, doing school runs and stuff like that. Yeah. But but that's the that's the negative brain taking over, so to speak. You know? I know that what I'm doing now is far more beneficial because I'm spending every day with my kids and I'm, you know, giving them the memories of a of a great childhood. Yeah. And I'm here. I'm not if I I know if I'd gone back. Like 'cause my psych had said, I can get you back, but if you go back and you break, you're gonna end up in a hospital. Yeah. Or worse. Yeah. And I know I a hundred percent would have broken again and I wouldn't be here. Yeah. You know, so but it's an ego thing. It's the invisible injuries is a big thing. You touched on it before, you know, broken arms, things like that. You see, you know, someone either in a sling or a bit of plaster and you know their arm's broken. You know there's some sort of injury. Someone's in a wheelchair, you know, you know that there's there there's something there. But you can be crippled in a different way mentally, that you're one step away or one you know Something you see or someone you run into at the shops could trigger you to a point of of of pushing over the edge, so to speak. And it's just it's it's a scary it's a scary thing and it's it's one thing that fascinates me. Obviously there's a lot of studies that are coming out more and more with mental health, with mindset, with trauma, things like that, but the brain. Yeah. The one thing they they got all the studies on cancers, on Everything else, but the one thing, the central nervous system, the brain that runs our entire body is the most under-researched thing worldwide. Is just it blows my mind that we're so far behind the eight ball worldwide. Yep. On that a hundred percent. I I find it so fascinating. Part of my ADHD and I've got tendencies of OCD is I obsess on things. So Probably what made me a good officer was, you know, I obsessed and w I have very high standards of myself and I got things done to a very good level. Yeah. when I've been off I obsess over bad things. Yeah. But I I have taken such an interest in in doing the studies about what the brain does, the neural pathways, how to rebuild those. Yes. And, you know, if I had my time again, I'd love to go to uni and do a psychology, you know, degree and 'Cause I just find it so interesting and it's it's so unique to each individual person. You know, it's not just, yeah, the one size fits all. I have a fantastic psychiatrist. He has only just become a a a fully fledged psychiatrist, but he was a neurosurgeon. Wow. so he's gone from operating on the brain to you know, studying it. And the insight that he has been able to give me and explaining why certain things happen. Yeah. It's unbelievable and it's so fascinating. Yeah. And I just don't understand why. Yeah, it's twenty twenty six. Why don't we know everything, like you said, about the one thing that controls everyone? You know, it's it's such a grey area. It's a it's a tough thing at times. We talked about social media before. There's two sides of the mental health thing that I think it to a degree is holding people back with it. Is the people self-diagnosing and celebrating on social media and self-down, well I've got this and I've got that and my ex-partner's a narcissist and they're this and they're that and they're this happened. I'm like, hang on. All of those things you just mentioned, were they diagnosed or no? You're you're self-direct through your Google or what's going on here? And as a result of that, people see that they get frustrated by the fact that some of these people are monetizing in their own ways from social media this way and they're looking at that and going, this ridiculous, see, this is all fake. Or the other side of it, when you mentioned it earlier, a bloke that's murdered his second person, but he was out on the streets, people go straight down a path of mental health instead of accountability. And I think those things are the most frustrating part of trying to step forward. It's one step forward, two steps backwards with the way things are and I don't know how we process forward other than just have the right people that have been through genuine things, speaking up, raising concerns and being used as potential studies in the future. Yeah. But Yeah, one thing I see a lot on let's say the thin blue line pages and stuff that no doubt you're on and stuff as well is people are consistently asking Australia wide about medical retirement and things like that. Just touch on from from your own experience. Actually, before we go into it, if you were to summarise it in that paragraph, how would you describe that process for you before we break it down? I'll I'll summarise it in two words. Okay. Clusterfuck. Yeah, okay. It was a nightmare. Yeah. It was the most degrading yeah process I've been through. Yeah. And you know, you take such pride in the job. You know, we all join join for our own reasons, but inherently, like I know for myself, I join because I like helping people. Yeah. You know, I'm not some hero complex or anything like that, but you know, I I like being out and about and I like talking to people in the community and I I love that aspect of it. To then just be chucked aside for eighteen months before, you know, getting booted out the door. Yeah. It's so degrading. You know, and I always liken the QPS to like a you know a bad relationship. You know, they they tell you that you've got no skills. You won't be able to survive out in the real world by yourself. You know, so you gotta stay with us. You've you've built your life around the money that we give you. So if you leave us you're gonna be on on your own. And so you stay. Yeah. And people put up with it. People just th I I'd love to run a a number of how many coppers are still coppers purely because they don't know what else to do. Yeah. And you go, well, I'm just in this job. It's not like the corporate well, we like transferable skills and stuff like that. There are no real like there are transferable skills, but they make you believe that you have none. But the medical retirement process was yeah, it was awful. Yeah. And it was, I knew it was coming because you get put in a position where once you were deemed stable and stationary from work cover, your psychiatrist says, Yes, you you're you're as good as you're gonna get. Yeah. QPS immediately, they're like, you know, fat kid to a donut, they're like, boom, here's here's your show cause. Yes. notice of suspicion, I think it's called. And that is where they basically say, We don't think you can come back to work. Mm-hmm. You need to prove to us that you can. 30 days. 30 days. So they will also, and I'll say this to anybody going through the process, they will also dangle a little carrot to you about voluntary medical retirement where they call you up and say, Save the process, just just take it. It's the same thing. It's not because if you go for any TPD or income protection down the track, you voided it because you took a voluntary medical retirement. So if they offer it to you, don't take it. So yeah, they put you in this notice of suspicion, 30 days to contest it. I didn't contest it. I just sent it back. So then you get the letter saying we call on you to retire on this date. And I think I got that in March of 24. And it was July twelfth, twenty-four to retire. And I was like, why Why do you have to you know three months or whatever, four months? Anyway, so I just accepted it. Yep. the week came and went. I didn't get a phone call. There was nothing on the day that I was retired. Okay. Nobody said anything. I had pipes. Funnily enough, no marching out parade or anything like that. My f friends and family did stuff for me. Okay, good. But I was so hurt by it, I didn't want it. Yeah. And I was like, I don't want to celebrate that I've failed this career. You know, so I appreciated the gesture, but it was heartbreaking. Yeah. because I was like, I didn't join this job with the idea of leaving the job. I thought, this is it. You know, I'll work my way up to sergeant and then I'll sit there for God knows how long and I'll work through to 60 and then retire. Nobody joins the job going, I I can't wait to be medically retired. Yes. so yeah, so that came and went and then The next paycheck came or the neck next pay period came and went and I didn't get any money. And so I I emailed injury management and said, like, where's my pay my leave payout? well, you're gonna have to chase that up with payroll. So, see now I'm done. Like you've gone, I've closed stamped your file, you're done. And so I called payroll chased up payroll and they're like, we process that separately. Okay, well, when am I gonna get my money? Because I now don't have a job. And I had to chase that up again and you know, even that, that was just like the final kick in the guts. and then that's it. You know, you're you're sort of left to your own devices. Yeah. There's no yeah, you've said it before, like people think, well, you've you're leaving the police, you're on a pension or yeah. No, I don't get anything. Yeah. Like it. what I'm entitled to. I get my leave paid out. You know, if I worked private and I was made redundant, I'd get a redundancy payment plus my leave payout. Yeah. QPS is just like, here you go, here's your leave. That's it. No qualifications, like no post-career assistance. I think it's New South Wales. I it might have changed. I haven't looked it up recently, but New South Wales, if you're medically retired, I believe they pay you seventy five percent of your wage for five years. Okay. They give you a four hundred grand deposit into your super. wow. And they put you through a legal a university degree. Really? I think that is and someone will no doubt jump on and correct that, but that was what I I've been told because The same mentality, we broke it, we fix it. They go, Well, we can't keep you anymore, but we'll provide you with a stepping stone. Wow. And I'm like, that would make such a difference. Imagine being able to go to uni to get a degree to help you while still getting paid 75% of your wage. Yeah. And having 400 grand in your super to fall back on. Worst case scenario. QBS. So nothing. And then with that stops all of your medical treatment. Yeah. Your You know, you've got your psychology appointments, they don't just stop. You know, so you've got to pay for that out of your pocket because work cover's gone, well yeah, you're done. We've spoken about the medical assessment tribunal, yeah, which is the most humiliating panel to sit in front of, three doctors who downplay every element of your injury. Trying to get a reaction. To give you a percentage to say, you're fine. Yeah. You know, you're fine. And this report is non contestable. You know, I found that was, you know, this is our decision and you either take it or leave it. Yeah. And then they go, you can go down the civil path and and sue the QPS for negligence and you're like, Where am I gonna get the time and money for that? You know, so it's yeah, it's just such a a degrading feeling. And then it was probably three months ago, I think, I got my separation certificate for the QPS. beautiful. It was written by The now deceased Commissioner Golcheski and dated like the date that I was medically retired. Yeah, right. But eighteen months later it ends up in my Okay. I open it up and I'm like, What's this? Yeah. You know, and it says the bottom line, your official association with the QPS is finished. Okay. Thank you. Thank you thank you for that. I had a I had my fifteen year medal. just sitting at the door for I think two days. I think it was meant to be registered post and signed and I only got that a month ago. Yeah, nice. That was two thousand twenty four. I retired, so our people matter and yeah yeah. And I I've kept you know, I've kept all my certificates and the the medals and stuff. I n I'd never I've never worn Yeah. 'Cause I was like I like I didn't again didn't join the job for these medals and you know, they're like a participation award, like, here's your covert medals. Mm-hmm. Okay, cool. But I've kept them for the kids. Yeah. You so I got the national police medal and the national medal. I think they made an exception because I think it's fifteen years, but because I was medically retired, they made an exception or something like that. So I got those medals because one day the kids and the grandkids and whatnot will look back and think, Hey, that's pretty cool. Yeah. but it sucks getting You get in the mail and you open it up and you think, Yeah, cool. Especially when you see, you know, consistently through emails, gazettes, everything else, they've got these you know, garlandites or these presentations consistently at headquarters. Yeah. You know, for the the brass and you look and go, what did they do in their career? Nothing. Yeah. And they they've got every medal aligned to them. It's yeah. Have you ever seen that meme of the North Korean generals? Where they just have a chest full of medals. Okay. Like ridiculous like their whole share of that reminds me of the brass and the QPS. Yeah. You're just wearing it. Because you got it. Yes. You know, like, you got the COVID medal. Yeah. From doing what? Sitting in your office or sitting at home, work from home. So it's those sorts of things. And like you know, I was I held a lot of sort of resentment for the QPS for a long time. Yep. I've made peace with that. Yeah. You know, I don't I don't hate them or anything like that. I think they are a very, very poorly run organization. And if they were a corporate, private enter enterprise Liquidation a long time. I would have gone so long ago because through my page, the amount of coppers that have reached out and everyone has the same story. Like it it's like a carbon copy. Every person is going through the same thing that I've gone through. Like no support, isolation, gaslighted into believing that you're the problem. Yeah. You know, and you just think, How are you still doing this? How how many hundreds of coppers have you lost. definitely. Like, I mean, before I went off, I was looking at the Gazette and you'd have twenty, thirty coppers a week resigning. Yeah. That is hundreds of years of experience per month gone. Yeah. And it's not getting any better. No, it's not. It's yeah. The older coppers, the older coppers are retiring now. Yeah. And nobody I I don't see it as a career that people stay in for twenty, thirty years anymore. You know, that that was that generation. You're lucky to get five years out of people now. Well, I had a psychologist on here a couple of weeks ago, it's an ex cop himself, and I spoke to him about all of this sort of thing. And he said, Yeah, with the more information that we're getting as a society now, with being able to relate things back to your own personal health and things like that, you aren't going to have enough police joining up and joining that job when there is more than enough proof out there due to the exposure of the amount of trauma that you're required to go to that it is gonna cause you issues down the track. So why is someone signing up to sign their life away in that way? And yeah, I think there's gonna be more and more issues and all reports say that we're on for the worst year ever as as police recruiting in Queensland. So yeah. That's one part of it. What I wanna go into next, mate, is you've touched on it a few times and we introduced it at the start, is the unstable Australia. I I add Australia tour because I That is what I say on the handle there for anyone to look up. Talk to me about that. Yeah, so you know, it was one of those things that I just I've I've always had this mentality of rather than just sit and sulk and be part of the problem, just whinge. Why not? try and come up with a solution. Yep. You know, so I I was like that in police. You know, I was taught from a very early start of my career from my OIC, Mick Leaf, who said, It's all well and good to come to me with a problem, but let's work on a solution as well. So we can work. And it sort of put the onus back on me. So I carried that through my whole career. I'd see an issue and I'd be like, cool, how can I help improve this? And so I did the same thing, you know, I I sort of I licked my wounds for a while and you know played the pity party and poor me, why did this happen? And then I thought, what can I do that is positive for it? And throughout my whole treatment sort of plan, the word that I kept hearing was, you know, stable and unstable regarding my mental health. And I thought, let's make the positive out of that, you know, let's come up with something, a cool logo. That people can I can chuck on a hat or on a t shirt or something like that, that people can wear as a as a way to basically be like, Yeah, I got shit going on, but I'm okay. You know, I'm dealing with it. And that's why I've on the side I've got embrace the chaos. Yeah. That's my little catchphrase because that's life. You know, sometimes you you can't control anything, so you just have to embrace it. Yeah. so yeah, so it started out more just as I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna create an Instagram page and start posting. It was almost therapeutic for me, talking about what I've been through, you know, where I'm at, what I'm doing. And I started to get the feedback like so many people were relating to it. And the goal isn't to be some you know, worldwide influencer or hat production company or anything 'cause I'm I'm not, you know, like I everything that I have done I've paid, you know, myself for and I just wanted something cool. I like hats and I was like, you what, I'm gonna create some hats. So good hats too, mate. Just having a look on the camera here. Sharp. Good. Yeah. So, you know, and it gave me something to sort of set my sights on, you know, and I I source, you know supplies and all that and got it done and it was sort of gave me that sense of, you know, purpose again. but yeah, it just started out as almost therapeutic, you know, just talking about what I've been through and then I did my podcast through unstable and called unstable minds. So I've got all these like little offshoots of unstable. Gotcha. And again, that was just, you know, an episode or, you know, ten episodes about me and what I've been through and how I've gotten to this point. And again, it was just something that I wanted to try and and I had a heap of feedback on it and people saying this is great. And had a lot of people that were considering joining the police that were listening to it. And not deterring them because I'm at the end of the day if you want to join the police, join the police. But you just you need to be aware that this is what's get what can happen. And I think it's more it won't, it's not if it'll happen, it's when it will happen. At some point something's gonna happen and you're gonna you're gonna hurt in a bad way. so yeah so I started unstable and I've had so many conversations with so many people and it's so refreshing. They don't know me, I don't know them. Yeah. But we yeah mental health you can actually use it in a positive way. You know it unites people because I don't jump on there and say that I have all the answers. Yeah. You know, I don't go, well, you need to be doing this or you need to take this medication and this and stuff like that. And the people who message me aren't looking for answers. And I don't proclaim to have any of them, but I'm just an ear to to vent to as someone, especially from a policing or first responder perspective, I've been through it. Yeah. I know the shit. I know what you deal with sort of emotionally on top of the mental health, like the guilt, you know, the regret about jobs you've done, what you could have done better, what whatnot. but it's not just first responders, you know, it because mental, like I said earlier, mental health doesn't discriminate. You know, we talk about what has impacted us and, you know, suicides and car crashes and all that sort of stuff. But for somebody in an office job, it could be bullying. Yeah. You know, and I think one of the things that I'm trying to work towards is the men's the mindset of conversation before crisis. Yeah. Right. So what I've found is is that there is a heap of support when you're in crisis. Yeah. Your lifeline, your beyond blue, you know, all those help lines that you call. But what happens in the middle before we get to that point? Cause that's like worst case scenario. And I know personally I wouldn't feel comfortable calling those numbers. Yes. Because I'm like, it's not that bad. I don't want to take up a resource that somebody might be standing on a bridge somewhere. I'm just feeling like shit. I'm not going to do it. But I'm like, what happens if we can jump in in the middle, yep, conversation before it gets to that crisis point, we might not need them to get to that point. So That's what I'm working on. That's the whole philosophy around what Unstable is trying to sort of create. Yep. Just a community, you know, where people can go, hey, you're welcome here, you're accepted here. There's no judgment. There's no need for validation. There's nothing. It's just there are people who understand what you're going through because Not everybody has a supportive wife like mine. Yeah. You know, I can talk to her. I'm so open with her. She just sits there. The amount of times that I've sat on the couch in tears and she just sits there holding my hand, cuddling me or anything. I had no idea she was in the job, mate. So that's even better for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, she's she has been a literal lifesaver. Yeah. You know, she understood what I'd been to, what I'd and you know what's funny is when I first joined the job and I was married previously. I was like, I can never date another cop. 'Cause it'd just be all about work. You know, yeah 'cause it at the time you're like, nah, it'd be too much. You come home, you talk about work and stuff like that. But I think it's it's why police and nurses and paramedics and everyone ends up dating in that yeah sort of area. Trauma bonding to a degree. Because you you get it. Like you get what shift work does to you, you get traumatic jobs without having to explain this is what it makes me feel. and I think God, I'd I'd love to run the numbers on how many police and first responders have gone through a divorce. it would be because I think I know in my case especially, I felt like I I grew and I changed the person that I was. Because you have to. Like as a police officer, you can't be this naive. soft, caring. You have to there's has to be an element where you become a bit of a prick. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you've got to have that inner monster in you because you're versing monsters. Yep. So you shared one of my posts yesterday about, you know, some people say I'm the nicest guy. Yeah. Some people say I'm an arsehole. And both are right. Yeah. Because you get what you get from what I get from you. Yes. so yeah, so I think, you know, when I when I you know, started dating my wife, I was like, I don't have to explain anything. And it just removed all of that. Yeah. You know, I didn't have to sit there and go, Well, this is why I've had a shit day. And I know that you don't think it's that you don't understand it, but it's the fact that I've gone to six of those jobs today and I'm frustrated that we're still doing this stuff. Yeah. You know, so it's been amazing, but people don't have that. There are a lot of people, you know, like you think about people go to work, they work in an office Yeah. They don't have family, they don't have friends. They come home to an empty house. There's nobody there. So if they've had a shit day, what do they do? 100%. How do they vent? How do they who do they talk? There's no human connection. Yep. You know, you have a a phone call, you know, a water cooler conversation at the office, but it's not in depth. Yeah. You know, they're a colleague, not a friend. So that's that's the space that I want to work in. So I'm in the process of developing an app called Unstable Ping. And it's basically a a connection tool. It's all anonymous. And it just allows people to talk to each other if you've had a bad day. Yep. And the whole concept is you log on, there's no details obtained, but I can be a listener or I can be a talker. So if I'm in a good having a good day, I'll go, I'll listen. And it's 20 minutes. I don't know who you are. You don't give me any details. So there's no like, I can't talk because I'm this person and they're gonna know by this name or anything like that. You know, and you have 20 minutes chat and it's about whatever you want. And then you go. Yeah. And you're on your way. And that might be enough to keep somebody away from spiraling to the point where they need those crisis hotlines. You know, it's not professional help. It's not counselors or anything. It's just people. Like minded. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just people having a chat because yeah, you just don't know what somebody has or going through. And the biggest thing I learned when I went off work. The amount of people who said to me, I would never have picked it. Like I would never have picked that you were struggling. And I was like, Yeah. How many people are in that space in the real world? You know, in the corporate world? Yeah. Who turn up to work every day, they do their job, have a bit of a laugh in the five minute conversation they have, and then go home and they go, I would never have, you know, like you go to suicides and they go, I I didn't even know you're struggling. Yes. You'd never have picked it. Yes. He didn't he never mentioned anything. And it's like sometimes people don't feel comfortable. talking to their family about it. So if we can bridge that gap where it's not at a professional level, it's just at a human level. Yeah. Because the other thing with Lifeline and, you know, beyond blue and all that is you got to give details. And if you say the wrong words, say the, you know, the certain triggers, yeah. You're gonna get coppers on your door. Yes. And I know because I've done that. Like I've turned up and you're like, hey, you had a phone call with and they're like, I was just venting. Yeah. And you're like, cool. You've got to come to the hospital with a stand and they're like, Well, I'm never doing that again. And like it defeats the purpose. Yeah. And I get it. There has to be those safeguards in place. But we need something before that. In between. So that's where unstable is. That's what it's it's a passion project. I've written dozens of letters and emails to politicians and I had a men's mental health thing with the loc with the member for Ford recently. I sat down where he gave me the time of day when he got back from Canberra. sat in his office, talked about all of this. Yeah. And he organized the men's mental health catch up. Okay. With 30 odd organizations in the area. And there's so many organizations doing things that I didn't even know existed. Okay. And he said it's about like we have to get it out there more. You know, we have to break down that stigma. Especially I'm not, you know, gender specific, you know, I if you're a female, non-binary, trans, whatever, talk to me. I'm I'm easy to talk to. But I feel like the main demographic who don't talk are men. Yeah. You know, because we're so proud. We're the protectors. We're the fixers, especially as police, you know, like this is what I've built my career on. The identity of what a police officer is is I'm the one who fixes everybody. Yeah. But we're the ones that struggle. And I mean, you only have to look at the numbers in Australia of male suicides. It's massive. And it's it's not going to get any better. Like we can continue to bury our heads in the sand, but it's not going to fix it. Yeah. You know, so Yeah, it's it's a big battle. Yeah. And I don't know how much I can impact, but if I can help one person by having a chat, my DMs are open. It that's what it's about, you know? Like, yeah, just so anybody who who just is having a shit day or has a had a we don't even have to talk about what has caused the shit day. You could just hey, I wanna talk about the footy. Okay, no worries. Let's talk. Yeah. You know, 'cause it might just be enough to bring them back down, to ground them. Definitely. So yeah, so that's what that's what I work on and yeah. It's all it's just me. So how will people find you on socials, mate? So in I think the the handle is unstable Australia. So unstable underscore Australia. So yeah, and flick me a DM, posts her out there. I mean, you'd know you get some controversial sort of comments and stuff like that and People you're not inviting for a barbecue. Yeah, people who sort of look at look at things and just want to stir trouble. You know, and and that's fine. I I always say on my posts, more than happy to have constructive conversation. Yeah. But I'm not this is not a police bashing page. You know, obviously I'm gonna post more stuff about policing because that's my background. Definitely. but don't come on here and go like yeah, F F T P and cops are corrupt and yeah, all right, bye. I'm not even gonna engage with it. Mate, I get it too. y you're just negative about that. No, no, no. No, these are people coming on telling their stories. If that's their what's happened in their life, I'm not you know, I'm not gonna cut them down or anything like that. That's telling their story. It's just everyone's got their own experiences in life, positives, negatives, everything in between and I'm the same, mate. I'm not here to beat anyone down. That's tell their story. Nobody is better than anybody. Yeah. You know, like, yeah, I was a police officer. That has been a better person than anybody. You know, I I made a connection at this men's mental health thing with a guy who extraordinary story who he chromed for so many years in Logan and he's had a horrific life, like just beaten down, just time and he is now advocating for men's for mental health. Yeah. You know, and he's lost his some of his children to suicide and it's it's heartbreaking, but He's doing such amazing work. Like he he was speaking at Queen Street Mall the other day. Okay. You know, and that that's the type of people that you know, like they've taken a beating from life, yeah, but they're not just sitting there and playing victim. They're like, All right, what can I do? And that's that's the type of people that you know you want to surround yourself with. You know, don't have all the answers and but just are willing to listen. Yeah. Yeah, because that's that's what it comes down to. So I get it, mate. That's probably a nice way to wrap up a A a good chat and a very vulnerable chat to be honest, mate. Like it i it's brave to come out and say those things because of exactly what we spoke about. People, armchair critics, anonymous people having their chops here and there. But for you to be brave, you know, vulnerable in that way and tell your story, I genuinely appreciate mate. But also, thank you for your service, buddy. Thank you. Appreciate it. And same to you. And look, the final thing I'll say is I have three boys at home and it would be remiss of me to not be the best role model I can be. Because we need to help the next generation of boys who are going to be men, that this is okay. That life is hard. Like it sucks at times. Yeah. But it's okay to to be vulnerable and open yourself up. And that stigma has to change. We're not in the sixties anymore. Policing might be mentally, you know, stuck in the sixties and seventies where, well, you know, I've been doing it this long and and I'm fine. But it that's not how society is anymore. Yeah. So you know, and it takes people like yourself as well doing things like this because it might just be that final thing somebody needs to go. Yeah, you know what? I am gonna talk. I'm gonna put my hand up and get help. Yeah. You know, so thank you for doing this and giving people like me the ability to talk, but also so that people see the other side of policing. Because I think that, you know, people forget that we're we're humans. Yeah. We're not robots. Yeah. You know, so yeah, thank you for inviting me on. Well, you're not out of the hot hot seat yet, mate, because I'm gonna finish off with two pet peeves, buddy. What do you got? Probably that one I spoke about earlier, about the you signed up for this. Yeah. that does me. Yeah. Because I think that just diminishes it and basically says your mental health is have you ever heard anyone say that to your face though? No, not to my face. Only on yeah. Never not that I I I don't think I'd, you know, do anything physically. Maybe. Red Mist. but yeah, I think it's a it's a really Poor comment to make behind a keyboard. Yeah. You know, I I mean I even had somebody on my socials the other day say because I called him out on you know his attitude towards police and he said I hope more police take their lives. Yeah. And it's like, mate, you wouldn't say that to me. Yeah. Like if I was standing right in front of you, you would not say that. And I deleted it and blocked him because I'm like other coppers will read that. Yeah, correct. And that might be the tipping point for them. so that's probably the first one. The other pet peeve it's more so, you know, when you're in a social gathering, is people go, What's the worst job you've ever been to? And you go, Do you wanna know? I don't think you can handle the worst job I've ever been to. Yeah. I don't think they comprehend that a bad job because as police we have a very high tolerance. You know, my psych was like, Tell me about some traumatic jobs. And I told him the big ones. And he's like, You do realize that like going to a fatal, going to a hanging Like they're all very severe traumatic jobs. And I was like, but they're not. They're just run of the mill, so to speak. Yeah. And he's like, that's because you're conditioned to only be at that level. Yeah. So when somebody asks you that in a public setting, goes, What's the worst job you've been to? Yeah. If I told you what my worst job was, this whole party would just shut down. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Or have you ever shot somebody? Yeah. And you're like, don't ask that. Why not ask us what the best job you ever went to? What's the funniest job you ever went to? Yep. You know, let's let's make it a nice story rather than Okay, sit down. I'll tell you the worst job. So yeah, those are my two pet peeves. Okay. I get it, mate. They're good. Yeah, I like I was prepared for them and that you stuck to the script with those ones. I like it, mate. I try. again, mate, thank you for coming on here. it is all in the name. Is he right though? So let us know in the comments with everything that's been said today. Disagree, do whatever you want. As is I've always been I'm open to other people having, you know, a difference of opinion, but justify why. Don't just throw throw out slander, be able to say it back and forth from there. But But the other important thing is the subscribe button. It doesn't cost anything there, but susc subscribe on Spotify. We're getting reached out from police in other countries at the moment, which is impressive. You go and start having a look. And there's about 400,000 people that are currently looking at the page on Instagram in the last month, which is impressive traffic going through there. So messages are getting out there. But yeah, it's quite humbling when you you hear from police in other countries that are reaching out there. Show you so a good thing. Hopefully, hopefully you can keep on that go the upward trajectory would be the word. But yeah, it does require the follows, the subscribe on Spotify and iTunes, also YouTube there. And yeah, it can be found on Instagram under the Izzy Right though handle. So again, thank you for coming on mate. It's been appreciated. Send us some feedback and we'll go from there. Awesome. Thanks very much mate.