Aaron: All right, welcome back to the Izzy Right Day podcast. We're very excited to introduce today's guest. He is a retired inspector of 37 years. also an army veteran as well. And that is Keith McDonald. Welcome. Thanks, Aaron. I'm stoked. Good to be here. Stoked to have you here, mate. No worries. Thanks, mate. Thanks for inviting me along. No worries. That's always a lot of fun to speak to retired personnel as opposed to those that are are still in the role and have to mind their P's and Q's so to speak. So thank you. Unleash all you like. Mate, we're gonna start off we're gonna get straight into it here. I want to hear about a young Keith. Tell me about a young Keith here. Mate, a young Keith, well I was born in Kingaroy. If not too many people know where Kingaroy is, it's the was the peanut capital of Australia at the time. Big big peanut silos there. and then we then moved out to because my dad was in the job and then we moved out to a little country town 18 miles out of Kingaroy called Cumbia and spent my primary school there, my first couple of years of high school. We travelled on a bus into St Mary's College in Kingaroy. And then dad got promoted and we ended up he ended up down at Cool and Gadda or on the Gold Coast and so I spent my last three years at Palm Beach Crumbin High. So Okay. Be been around a been around a little bit sort of thing. So Yeah, so exactly what you're saying. Your dad was a police officer himself, so I guess you were you would move with him. So by the sounds of it, he was in that sort of more what would you class King of Roy as? Would you class it as Central Queensland? No, it sort of South Burnett, mainly in the Wide Bay Wide Bay Burnett area, I think, is what they call what it would have been known as back in back in those days. South the South Burnett. you know, many a time, when I was a young kid, somebody who was probably one of the greatest premiers to ever walk the earth used was our local member, Sir Joe Bajelke Peterson and and his wife, Lady Flo. And I don't think personally myself, I don't think Queensland's ever been the same since he got rolled out of government. certainly infrastructure wise, things haven't gone as well as perhaps what they could have. But yeah, so he was he was very much part of the furniture there 'cause dad b particularly Cumbia, my memories of Sir Joe and Lady Flo, you know, coming in and sitting down in the in the lounge room of the police house and all that sort of stuff. So, you know, having a cup of tea. No pumpkin scones though, but and and the community back then, obviously a s still a small community compared to some of the the bigger areas there. How what would you guess or estimate their population was back in those days? probably about three hundred three hundred? Three hundred people in the town. And it was just it was just a farming community. So it was mainly peanuts, soybeans and dairy cattle as well. There were a few dairy dairy farms around the place and all that all that type of stuff. And Cumbia's at the foothill of what they of what we call the Bunya Mountain. So, you know, we went up there I remember once we w went up there with in dad was there because back in those days he didn't have a patrol car. So Yeah, okay. What was it then? His car. Yeah, all right. He was still patrols, police patrols in your own car. In your own car. He didn't he didn't get a police car until just before he left, probably about twelve, eighteen months before he left there. He got his first police car. So And what was his role in in the police that you remember? Well My dad's role that I remember, like obviously he was OC of a one officer station and then he went down to Cool and Gatta as a sergeant and was in con obviously just a duty sergeant down there and then he got promoted to senior sergeant. We came up to Brisbane, moved into the family home at Carrondale. And that was he moved in nineteen eighty was when he got promoted to senior sergeant. He ended up an inspector as well. And th back in those days, we had relieving inspectors. Right. So They had a pool. Yeah. So they had a pool of inspectors and they'd say, Right, you know, this inspector's going on holiday, so you're gonna go here for two months or whatever type scenario. So, you know, that was the stuff I remember. Many of New Year's Eve that he did down at Cool and Gadda. Cool and Gatta in those days was very much you know Obviously with Twin Towns you had the the two the two midnights and everything else, but you know, there were b it was bands and you know, Kool and Gatta was very much like you had surface paradise and yeah. That's where the what we what they termed the elite went to surface paradise and the and the others went to Kool and Gatta, so to speak, 'cause the others. So if we're going we're we're in that depth there. You're at school in that sort of area there. Describe yourself as a young fella. We're sporty, we academic, what we like at school. I was hopeless. I was hopeless at school. School yeah I mean probably like like a lot of kids back in those days, school was not one of those things that I particularly enjoyed. Just got in the way of life, didn't it? Yeah, just got in the way of life. But the thing I did learn about school was you know, I was a bright eyed country kid. Yeah. Starting grade ten. at a high school. I mean, I've gone from a school that probably had three hundred kids to a school that had close to nine hundred and just, you know, all these different cla you know, diff just different classes and yet really had to find your feet quickly. Yeah. Yeah. And I suppose one of the things that I did that did hold me in good steed there was the fact that I could talk to people. And so yeah, so I'm I made friends with when I did make some friends, some school friends, they sort of said, you know, the people that you made f initial friends with were probab are probably not on the on the good side of things and all that sort of stuff. And you just sort of but you know, at the end of the day they still settle O to you, they didn't do anything wrong by me and everything else I didn't do anything wrong by them. So we j you know, you just had your groups and everybody just went about, did their did their job, you know, catch the bus home and when we finished school it was you know, I had a part time job then at a cut price store at at Chegan, 'cause we lived at Chegan and you know, you s they w they were the memories because you've finished school And that was it. Everyone was in you either went working or you went to university. Yes. There was no schoolies for a week or anything like that sort of stuff. So that price. I I don't know that one. Is that that's a supermarket? Yeah, it's like four square. It's like the old four squares, I think they call them now food works and spas and all that type of stuff. Funny you mentioned that 'cause when I moved to the Gold Coast as a young fella, I went and worked at five star supermarket at Chugar. So I wonder if it's the same shop that over the years potentially I think I think the old cut price is it's now a St Vinny's or Lifeline store or something like that sort of thing. So yeah there's a real estate beside it and you know it's just And you were doing that when you were at school, you said. Yeah. So what year did you finish school graduate school? Seventy seven. And what was that year twelve, year twelve? Year twelve. Year twelve. Yep. Yeah. And from there I I was out and in June of seventy eight, I was successful enough to get into the air force and then went down to Adelaide. Did my initial recruit training down there, then went to Wagga Wagga for 13 months and then came to Wamberley, ended up being what they call 3AD, the three aircraft depot. Okay. And which was basically it was just maintenance on aeroplanes. Right. because my dad, it's I because I wanted to follow in dad's footsteps and he just said to me, he said, get some life experience behind you first. get that under your belt and then if you're still keen, do that. So yeah, so then I finished finished up in June of eighty four, spent a few months doing a couple of things and then started at the Academy in October of eighty four. So Police Academy. Police Academy at Oxley, yeah. So tell me how that worked as far as a I guess recruitment process. You just applied for a role, did you? I d yeah, I I applied, just put my application in sort of thing, and then I don't know, it was just successful that you know, and then believe it or not, one of the blokes that was in my recruit squad was a bloke I did senior at with at Palm Beach Crumban. Terry Winters, so you know, so and he was a neighbour as well where we lived at Chegan. So you sort of you look at it and you go, Do you it's a small world, you know. Just you don't realize how small it is until you start moving around and start seeing things and you bump into people that you know and all that sort of stuff. So yeah. And exactly that that you said about there, you cut that I'll fill up my match when you that happened to me. I woke with a blank. in a sales role many years early said, I'm gonna go to the police years later, no worries, three or four years pass. He did the same and not only that, the same academy, the same intake. It's insane that you just look and go, No way Yeah, I know. It just small world. It is is very, very much a small world sort of thing. And then, you know and then over time, as time went on after I finished at the academy and did my initial twelve months and came back to Ipswich, 'cause that's where my wife Sue is from, born and bred Ipswich girl. then I started to see other blokes that I'd worked with in the Air Force coming through into the into the cop into into the police. So you know, so then that the military side of things they started to filter through overlap a little bit. Yeah, it started to overlap. So And that that bit you mentioned there, the academy. I've only ever seen the footage. There's some of these, you know, black and white footage that still gets around to people kicking the soccer ball around in the In the academy there. Yeah. What how long was the academy then? Is it still the same time, do you remember? We were Started in October, got sworn in in May of eighty five. Okay. So you could pretty well say like it was never you know, six months sort of thing of training and all that sort of stuff. But you know, there was a bloke one of our instructors, our PE instructors there was a bloke who goes by the name of Wayne Bennett and he was I always remember once we were sort of you know Just say physical fitness wasn't the greatest side of things for a lot of us. Yes. And I just said to a couple of the boys one day, you know, while we're doing this exercise, boys, while we're halfway through the second lot of it, I'm just gonna come down here and run up beside the gym and get into the shade and just cool down a bit. So just follow my lead. And just as I was running down, he sort of barked some orders out and That was it. That changed. That changed very quickly. You hear a lot of the old footballers and they're reminiscing with Wayne Bennett as a coach that he was a great person to hide in the bush to make sure no one done shortcuts and no one cut off an area there. So But absolutely. You know, they they used to do the e well what they one of the runs they did was sort of down in through an ar and all that sort of thing, you know. Up I can't even remember the name of the road that runs at the back of the Academy now, but yeah, you used to sundry maybe. Yeah, I I can't remember. But anyway, you used to run up there, up to Archerfield Road and down Archerfield Road to another str road and then down there sort of thing and then back to the academy and all that sort of stuff. And yeah, there were there were spies placed at strategic locations because they all you know, they obviously knew all the shortcuts that people would take and all this sort of stuff and everything else. So make sure everybody did it and then yeah. Did you live in at the Academy? No, no. My parents were living at Carndale at the time. So, you know, one of the other things we did was we did a tambourine run once. I still don't know whether they do that anymore. Yeah, well the old school did, yeah. Yeah. They dro and the bus drops you off at the car park and they said, we're gonna be here and the bus will leave at one o'clock and you go, well that's twenty five K's away. And you sort of had like three hours to get there, and you went, well, I can't walk it, so there is gonna have to be some running involved. But you know, like at the end of the day, I don't think I came out of the academy, probably the fittest I've ever been in my entire life, sort of stuff, because it really did get you ready for what. to expect when you hit the outside world. So Yeah, okay. Well and we'll touch base on that. Did you apply, you mentioned Ipswich before. Did you apply is that's the area you wanted to go to? Well it it was after so I did my initial twelve months and then at the end of that twelve months the e unless you went to like places like the Gold Coast, Townsville Keynes, any of those areas. You had the choices that you had were extremely limited in your second year. So you either went to Communications, Information Bureau, or the Warrant Bureau was where most of the people who were Brisbane centric went to. I was fortunate enough to go to Comms and I did a couple of years at Comms and then, you know, we sort of got ma we'd got married. and I was travelling in and we were living in Ipswich and then I thought, well, you know, like I'm travelling on the train, so I might as well, you know, put myself get a trance see w see if I can get a transfer at Ipswich, which I was fortunate to do. That was sort of like the end of eighty eight, I think it was eighty seven, eighty eight, something like that. And then yeah, and then did a first stint at Ipswich and then got involved with the acting commissioner at the moment in a couple of projects in a program called Phoenix where which was involved with statewide education of new legislation, stuff like that, like the time of the Police Powers and Responsibilities Act came out, I think it was about sixty sections. I think it's about eight hundred and something now or whatever. But you know, and then we did st and so we prepared statewide training packages and all that. type thing. And then from there, you know, I was fortunate to get promoted to senior sergeant while I was there at the Academy in a program that was called CAP competency acquisition program. And then from there did back you know, you had to go through a process to become an inspector, attend a attend an assessment center and then they graded you and then said, right, you need development in these areas before you can become a commissioned officer. And then once you did all that development, they signed you off and then you just waited for an inspector's position and I got ended up getting promoted, must have been about two thousand three, I think it was, to in inspector at Metro South where I was there. Professional practice manager. Sort of a bit of a misnomer, I suppose, we're considering, but anyway. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna go back and we're gonna break those bits down. Okay. We're gonna go right over the starry eyed Connie that comes out of the academy. You beauty, we're gonna Ippy, we're gonna do our thing there. Yeah. Can you remember any of those those early days as as a young Connie and who potentially took you under your wing? Who sticks out to you from those those days? there's a lot of people like we had like when I was at communications, it was there was just a a a plethora of great sergeants who were there. and you cer I certainly learnt a lot. I remember one day and it's this very, very sad day 'cause it I still remember it. I was coming in on the morning shift and they said to me, they said, you're gonna sit in Brisbane North 'cause back in those days we were like we had Brisbane North and then the r when we talk about Brisbane North, we talk about like the areas outside of the central area. There was the city area which included the valley. And then the South side was similar where they had South Brisbane District and Winham District. Yeah. And yeah, I walked in one day and it f it was the day that Peter Kidd unfortunately had been killed that morning during a raid and s that was a very, very sort of solemn day 'cause it was very yeah, wasn't that was one of the things I remembered. I mean, we played lots of tricks and all that type of stuff. Yeah. You know, like everybody does in every in every workplace. But the bunch of sergeants who were there were absolutely fantastic. You know, we had we had a thing which kids wouldn't have any idea about now called a teleks. So you may explain it. Well, for communication interstate between because computers were just starting to bear their ugly heads. Okay. And so it was still the old style of communication. So a telex was if you wanted to send a message somewhere, yeah, you typed it in, you know, two fingers. Yeah. And you type type the message in and it went into state. or wherever it needed to go and then they and then they had a machine at the other end which receive it. Which received it, spat it out, and then that was the message that would go out statewide sort of thing on printers and all these types of things and come up 'cause we used to have back in those days the old printers had you know, the serrated edges on with the holes and everything else. So it was just like a old time machine that people people have no idea, you know, we still had we still had the old sort of what do you call the circular phones, you know, whether it was another ones, yeah, you know, another one. Spin spin around and all that and then we intro then they introduced these new things that had touch pads on and just the the enormo the enormous advantages that, you know, that that we undertook and that that stage we were and comms at that time was in Makerson Street and we I left there as they were building what is still now the police headquarters that sits there and in Roma Street. So you know, those things and yeah, just a great bunch of people there. And then when I went to Ipswich we had great senior sergeants and sergeants there sort of thing and Some of them retire you know, born and bred in Ipswich and retired in Ipswich and others moved on to other things and everything. But we were sorta pretty all and all those days, but it was not so much to be a man or anything like that, but just their experience and what they taught you sort of and you went well righty you ta you take it on board. Big time. And someone to look up to and yeah. And you know they and if you were a worker, 'cause they would quickly find out if you were a worker or you weren't a worker. Mm-hmm. And if you're a worker, well, yeah, there were no There were no problems because they just sort of they'd sort of say, Right, go and do this and they knew that the job would get done nicely and and properly and all those sorts of things and everything else under and under their terms and you know, or what they or how they wanted the job done. So talk to me, your dad you remember your dad in policing, then talk to me about yourself in your early days. What was the evolution between your dad and yourself as far as equipment that a police Officer potentially wore in the utility belt. Well, we had a we had a five shot. Yeah. which you could actually see the bullets come out of the barrel. Yeah. So when you're on the range, yep. You could actually see it. We had a rubber button. Okay. And handcuffs. And a radio, potentially. And a ra and a radio. And that was it. Out you go. That was it. Do you remember what your dad had? he probably had a He had a wooden button. and handcuffs, I think, was about it. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's great. That's just between your dad and yourself to jump there. And obviously where we're at now is pretty interesting that part. But you know, it's I mean, I was I suppose I've been fortunate that, you know, to go through the AC spray and the ta and tasers and, you know, the upgrade and equipment and everything else because the she increase in availability of weapons is just exploded, you know, it's sort of and that was that was probably the biggest thing that you found was the change over time of things slowly happening, you know, like things would okay, you know, this would change and it would take twelve months before a change would come through, where now it's you know, something happens today and it's gotta change tonight because if you don't or you you're not aware of it left behind. You get left behind and, you know, and then you're leaving the stu you know, police are vulnerable, you know, other emergency services vulnerable to all these new And more importantly public that you're protecting as well. They're relying on you, but you haven't got the you know weaponry to potentially de-escalate and deal with that job. So yeah, yeah. Well, you know, domestic violence is just enormously from when the first domestics I went to in my training to what it was when I left was just a massive change yeah in you know not only legislation but just in the services that were that are provided to domestic violence victims and all that type of stuff. And, you know, the one thing that still is the issue I suppose is there's a lot of culture out there that still rates women as second class and all that and that's one of the things that I I don't know how the D V legislation will ever, ever accommodate that Mm type of you know that cultural significance of gap of g of gap. and you touched on it. We're talking about the evolution of weapons there. It's not just weapons, you've got to do the evolution of what you wrote to a degree, legislation. Yeah. You're adapting legislation to a degree depending on the changing of climate and and things that are adjusting there. Yeah. Well it sounds like you played a bit of role in that as far as Yeah what you did. That's yeah that's developing statewide training, you know, like and the acting commissioner was he was instrumental in and you know, going into bat and saying, well right, we'll do this and, you know, we'll get this on board and we'll get this done right and all those types of things and everything else. And you worked really hard and, you know, he was he was absolutely fantastic for me in my development as a person and and everything else because He put a lot of trust in all of us who were d who were doing it. Yeah. And you know, that and we always know that trust works both ways, but the trust he displayed for us, I'll never forget. Okay. Yeah, good. And that's someone that obviously sticks with you for that yeah. That part. Yeah. We're talking obviously about all the policing stuff, but something that's never mentioned or taken into account all that much. Family. Yeah. You mentioned your wife. Yep. before and getting married. She was with you before the Academy by the sounds of it. No, no, I mu I met her just when I started. So just after I got sworn in, I met her in June of eighty five. Okay. So yeah. Just I'm not out. What's happening there? Yeah, just a night out and I saw this lady and I went I went over to her and then she gave me the usual No, I don't want to dance sort of thing. My feet are sore and I went, well, you know and then anyway. But back in Toler Yeah. But back in those days, you know, it was sort of well, I'm on shift work 'cause I was had just started at the valley and, you know, just got sworn in. And it was all phone calls and then it would be 'cause sh we I lived at Carendale, she lived at in Ipswich. And so it would I'd drive up, you know, take her out to dinner and all those sorts of things and it was just, you know, we'll go out to dinner at a nice fancy restaurant and all that sort of stuff and everything else. And y it was a courtship. And then yeah, so we got married in eighty six. So we're just coming up to forty years. Wow. On the first of November. So if she still sticks with me. They have stones or something that resemble certain milestone weddings or or anniversary state. Yeah, I think it's to be or am I throwing you on I think mine might be a big rock or something like that. So smash my head on it. Now we're talking shift work as a police officer, all those sort of things. You're now with your partner you eventually get married. Kids. Kids? Yeah, got two. Tamara. When did they come along? Well no, you might not want to out their age. No, no, no. No, Tamara wouldn't she would not want anybody to know her to know her. But then and we also have a son, Jaden, who they were born two years apart on exactly the same day. But but then Jaden, he had a medical mishap and that's sort of held not held him back, but sort of we've had to deal with that pretty well all our life and I know in the time, you know, the amount of hospital visits that he had, particularly in the early years in touch wood, we hope that, you know, we don't have another for a while, but all the You know, the medical and all the hospital visits and everything else, you know, from working i you know, even at Ipswich doing rotational shift work and all that sort of stuff and then at the academy, you know, and and and all the working down there and all that, although the academy was was a bit better from the perspective of, you know, it was mainly eight to four work, but still, if he got crooked and, you know, he had to go into hospital, I was You know, I had the fortunate of having the great boss and you know, we sort of did sort of worked everything out out from there and then, you know, and then of course Sue's mum, or late mother, she was fantastic because she was mainly looking after Tamara while Jaden was was you know, going through all his medical you know, sort of journey. And yeah, so we come out and Yeah, so they're both in their thirties now. I will say that they're in their thirties. So, yeah. And then it you know, you s and we're sorta very, very 'cause, you know, we now have a grandson and everything else so that and that's you know, expanded the family and, you know, we move on from that and keep going. So yeah. So it's it's all the balance and primarily because of of Jaden's health issues, Sue My wife never worked. and believe it or not, when she was pregnant with Tamara she got sacked because it wasn't because it wasn't a good look for the company to have a pregnant woman behind the counter. So Wow, okay. So things have changed. Haven't they? Yeah, employment laws and different things. Wow, that's yeah, that's that's a rough one. Yeah. Yeah. We will eventually divolge into a few stories about your kids at some stage here. However Yeah. You know, you've seen a large a large time over set s angle around that thirty-seven years as far as a career's concerned. Yeah. Can are you able to talk about or touch on any Maybe one or two jobs that still to this day stick to you that you either went to as a a boss or just a a junior officer? Well, you know, I I mean, I always remember like the Milford Street fire where five people tragically lost their lives and I I I remember that. I remember when I was courting Sue, Reed's burning down, you know, which was a huge department store in Ipswich. And I remember it burning down and ringing her on the phone and saying, look, you know, you don't have anywhere to work at that at that time, you know. And so yeah, I remember that and that you know, I remember other jobs. There was a insu well it's fifteen years ago now, but excuse me, there was a lady who was out riding her bike. she got struck and killed by a an on duty US servicemen and long story short great investigation by our forensic crash unit and that and they invoked so each not each I I can't say each but Australia has agreements with other countries which they call them the status of forces agreements. So it has one with the like the US, UK, Japan, all those places and they have reciprocal ones with us, which means that if an incident happens involving one of their members and they have laws that can deal with it that they will deal with the incident. Now most of it happens as you would be aware with when, you know, the big American ships come sailing into into Brisbane and then they all go out and, you know, because they've been at sea for so long and all cut loose. So that all those matters get dealt with 'cause they're off duty for one of so this was on duty and so this particular area of the what they call the SOFA status of forces agreement was invoked and that required the Australian federal attorney general signing over a certificate that said that they were happy for America for the United States to deal with it. Okay. So they had all these, you know, and they then relied so then we had to get it and so it was all approval from all different people and Garth Pippen was my super at the time and it was just one of those things that was unique in the fact that I think it's still the only time it's been used in Queensland. It certainly at that time was the only time it had been used in Australia and that was back in twenty eleven. And I was you just sort of look at it and I was only just talking to the former judge advocate general or what they call the JAG the other day. he's now in private practice over in a place called Nashville, Tennessee and just sort of saying fifteen years he couldn't believe it that it was that it had been fifteen years and that so you know, that that sort of thing and then there's just multiple incidents, you know, at Ipswich that just You know, there's just too numerous to ex you know, and I certainly remember 'cause the Milford Street fire I was a c I was a senior Connie. I was and you know, I I remember that vividly and you know, and then I remember this the the incident with the American servicemen bec simply because of the fact that I was the inspector at the time he was in charge of the forensic crash unit and we had, you know, had to send all this stuff through. The gentleman ended up get the matter went, you know, over there to over into Washington in a place called Bridgerton. Bridgerton, yeah. And Yeah, they dealt with it under their law over there sort of thing and everything else. So but you know, and I still talk to the family and particularly one member of the family who's been really fantastic for us, for us through all d during that time and everything else over the last fifteen years. So yeah, pretty good. But you know, it was the b the big thing I always remember about certainly my time at Ips i time at Ipswich and Oxley and all that as a commissioned officer was just the the support that a lot that I provided a lot of people, you know. on a very, very sad note, I lost a a gentleman who was a good friend whilst I was at Oxley, Dan Stiller. And you know, That was the first time I'd ever organized a police funeral and there was you know, that was a lot of w lot of work, lot of p lot of pressure. Had a good team with me there. A la a lady whose name I can't remember, but then the upper Mount Cravat Traffic helped out as well and you know, and obviously Mount Omni, but they were grieving for Dan, but it you know, and it's those sorts of things just s stay with you for for your life type of thing, you know. Did Dan Carl, who was a VOC of the Ipswich Communications branch, he passed away just as he was probably getting ready to retire. So you know, p those types of things just yeah, they stay with you and then all then lots of other little things and everything else. So You you mentioned, you know, the fires when you're a senior conny and things like that. It's one thing to go to some of those jobs. It's another thing when you're the boss. In charge of those things to hold everyone together whilst organising things. it's a totally different job. so yeah, you've not only, I guess, done that, you've seen a fair few disasters too over your your time as a boss, as a a ranked officer. Yeah, yeah. We had well we I was at Oxley. when the twenty eleven floods occurred and just after I left Oxley, Ipp well obviously Ipswich was affected as well. But then we had a in Ipswich we had floods again in twenty thirteen, fifteen and seventeen, I think it was, something like that. you know, like every couple of years we had floods all in different areas, you know, like it was just it was not weird, but it was just different areas got affected it because of the amount of water that came in specific locations and all that. But yeah, twenty eleven, yeah, I was at Oxley and always remember getting a phone call from a superintendent Tony Cross who said that we need to get the the Rockley markets up and running. Mm. And that was yeah. Yeah. Yeah, okay. And mate there were Aaron, there were pumpkins that I couldn't believe would get to the locations that they got to, but you j I just sort of went, Wow, this is like the height of the water through there and then to get it cleaned up because, you know, whether people believe it or not, you know, the Rockley markets d you know fresh fruit and vegetables for the state of Queensland for in a lot of areas. So yeah, it was that was a big big effort there because then we, you know, with the assistance of obviously Brisbane City Council and the disaster coordination centre and everything else got it all cleaned up and tidied up. So And as a a boss role in that sort of time, I can't imagine you were having too much rest. No, no, there wasn't there wasn't much time to resp. Yeah. But you at the end of the day I think it was you just I just looked at it and like a lot lot of the other people, it was j you know, stuff had to be done and it was simple as that. And you know, thankfully I didn't have to you know, I didn't have the absolute disasters that befell Grantham and places like that. So I was very fortunate that I didn't have the any of that. any of that sort of stuff, but certainly, you know, Rockley markets, floods and then, you know, fires, you know, out the back of Burner and places like that, but burnt and I know I just see that they're they're just now saying that the Cunningham's Gap Roadworks from the twenty nineteen fire, I think it was, or something like that. Or is just about just about completed. So And I yeah, I mean that's taken a couple of years simply because of the fact that there's a lot of geo, what do you call it? Seismic not really seismic but geo geo geo type stuff, geogra geographical type things with big rocks and all that sort of stuff, weakened weakened rock faces and everything else. So they gotta work out the best ways to do that. So run the roads and things through there. Yeah, yeah. Or to or to hold the hold the rocks or how to bring the rocks down and or hold them in place and all that sort of stuff. So people outside our depth or mindset do those roles, don't they? mate, they are. Yeah. They are. Sometimes sometimes you sort of laugh at and sort of think, you know, bit they're a bit of bit of this, that or the other thing, but yeah, they pretty well get it all together and You know, at the end of the day, they do they do a fantastic job. So they do. Helps the world go round, helps the everything go through the transport up as the roads up, straighter, quicker transport. And we go from there. Now I'm gonna break it down a little bit. We'll take a little step back from those stories there and I'll just wanna have a little bit of a chat about people forever say. And I noticed I started 2009. So well after yourself in that way, but you have seen so much evolution. Now let's take it back a bit, not so much talking about policing, but social media. Social media come in and opened up a lot of armchair critics, so to speak. Or there's all sorts of names that I won't use here, but Between that and TV shows and movies that come out that depict police, And the person who's watched a T V show once, for instance, as soon as something happens policing wise, they jump straight on social media without any accountability into the why didn't you shoot him in the kneecap? Why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that? As a boss, what did you see or hear about from potentially yourself but staff reporting back to you about that? Was there any shift in mindset or anything you had to do as a boss to adjust how you approach things? I when social media started to come out for as in a lot of incidents getting videoed and everything else. We just had to sort of tell staff, do your job, do it properly, be mindful that people will film it. Yeah. and just but just do the job and your training that you've that you've had should be sufficient to get you through most types of incidents. And I say the training, most incidents, because there's always those incidents that you have absolutely no control over where things can just go, you know, blow up. And I think one of the things that people tend to forget is that in this certainly happened numerous times at domestic incidents where the male would be detained for the four hour period and then the police would have to watch their own back because the wife or partner would be coming at with a knife. I've got to be careful of what I say here, but When police started to get body worn cameras, yeah, the body worn camera tended to provide a completely different perspective of an incident to what was on social media. Yes. And there's always an incident and many people would probably not remember this because they're too way too young. But back in the day when they had street marches in Brisbane, there was a and this was brought about by t by T V a police officer wielded his baton and hit a person on the on the head with their baton. Okay. And this was a street march, so I'm probably talking here about the s late seventies, early eighties sort of thing. And probably the seventies. Anyway, when it appeared on TV, it appeared that the police officer had struck this protester numerous times with the baton across the head. Right. But in reality it was only ever once. Okay. And they just cut it. And just repeated. And repeated it. So People and you would have had this experience where they, you know, and thank God for road policing or highway patrol as they're now known, and the professionalism that they show in a lot of situations where people would make a complaint about them abusing and all this type of thing. And they had body warns and all that and they'd say, Well, here, have a look at this and you'd look at it and it was a completely different side of the story. Absolutely. You know, you can't get away from the fact that yes, if you do did do the right thing, didn't sorry, didn't do the right thing, that it would could potentially blow up in your face. And What I always tried to show was that we are human beings and we're always entitled to make a mistake. Yeah. If we make the same mistake twice, it's not a mistake. The second time isn't a mistake. So if somebody goes off, you know, and when I say somebody goes off, a police officer goes off, always tried to sort of look at it from the perspective of We all get red mist. I've had the red mist, the infamous red mist. And you just sort of gotta look at it and say, Well, you gotta look at it in the in the circumstances and We all it like it's like men, you know, men are very reluctant to go to a doctor because we don't wanna we don't wanna tell a doctor, you know, I've got problems, you know, here, there and everywhere else. And we try to tell each other, go to the doctor, because if you are having problems, get it seen to. So human nature is I've fucked I've stuffed up. and I'm going to hopefully get out of this with as minimal impact as possible. And at the end of the day, I'd say to them, look, just tell the truth. Four if you've done the wrong thing, fall on the sword, fall on the sword, and the punishment will be less. then if you tell lies and then integrity issues. Yeah, and then integrity is brought into question and all that. But whatever you do, don't ever make that same mistake again because it won't be a mistake. No, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And that was I guess something that stood out for you where think there's to a degree there's a bit of a divide with the policing going these cameras this and that but from I guess from my end and from a lot of other people's ends as well is it saves your bacon more than it does you know anything else. You're doing the right thing the way you should be. It's gonna cover your ass from the false allegations and go from that end. exactly, you know and there's I mean and the the hardest thing as you would know is y we're all you know we learn at different types of training how to you know diff different holes and all that type of th type of stuff. But when we're training we try to do do it in a way where we're not where we try to be resistant, but we don't try to you know, hurt our fellow mates and all that type of thing. Where when you're dealing with a member of the public who's high on drugs and grog or just on drugs, I mean some of their you know superhuman. You you add that superhuman to that. Yeah. And add the fact that a lot of those people that are addicts are very skinny, their flexibility, the way they can twist, it is very hard to Yeah, well I you know, when I was at the working at the Wa City Wat Brisbane City Watch House, this lady came in and she was built like you know, might as well what we would c terminology built like a stick. And she brought a six foot four police officer down screaming in a heap to his knees. Yeah, that's right. And once she had calmed down, which was some hours later and she said, What am I doing here? And we exp explaining the situation to her, she said, Well, I went out down the Gold Coast to Broad Beach and she got arrested at the Paddington Tavern. So she had no memory from when she left the when she went out to by the time she sort of came out of it, you know, so This the drugs and there were four other police officers hanging on to her as well, you know, and they and it they were struggling, you know. And yeah, it's just phenomenal the the amount of strength that some people ha some people have. Add adrenaline to that, all sorts of other things. I know my majority of my injuries not the most severe, but majority of my injuries in the line of duty ha happen from females. because You don't want to approach them especially as a bigger guy. Of you know folding them in half. Only to being folded in half by them because you're going into it light and exactly what you said, it's a superhuman strength that they have if they are drug affected, then add adrenaline to that and they're paranoia to a degree. of cameras around, things happening there, and a bigger guy man handling a female so to speak, even though they're owning me right now, it's Yeah. Yeah, it it can be it can be rough out there for that. absolutely and s a couple of our DDOs at Ipswich when the you know incidents were happening and people were had their camera filming, they'd turn around and they'd say, I'll get your name and telephone number off you because when we go to court, I'm gonna want that video. Yeah. And that changed the members of the public's they went, correct. Yeah, well I'll stop filming. You know, it's just and just yeah. And if just the way that unfortunately we shouldn't have to, but it's just the way of the world now where it you know, because of you know, the the increased risk to members of the public and all that that the num you know, the the number of C C T V cameras has increased in the filming and everything else. You know, I see these glasses now, meta glasses or something, you know, where they've Where they've got, you know, the the lens in the camera on the on the on the camera camera on the you know, on the glass and you just sort of go, Wow, it's just a whole new level. So yeah, so you just gotta walk through life, whoever the who whoever you are expecting to just behave the way you wanna be seen because you could be captured at any stage. So you mentioned domestic violence before and things like that, but just over the el evolution of your career, and I guess you were then in a boss's role where you got to read, I guess, the daily occurrences that were happening. Types of jobs. What have you seen from a job adjustment of either volume of jobs or the types of jobs that have changed throughout your entire career? So higher end of types of jobs police are attending to day-to-day. Well, probably certainly from a perspective of alcohol-related violence was not was prevalent and was probably more prevalent than drug violence. when we you know, when we first started I see most people were just smoking marijuana and all that. Having a drink. Yeah. And having a drink where now it's, you know, all the powders and all the even, you know, a lot of some of the prescription type drugs that, you know, they all sort of bubble away and manufacture. So that's one of that's certainly one of the things that that I noticed and the change of domestic violence was is probably just in the in now the reporting of it. instead of people remaining silent, people are sort of saying, you know, geez, I don't have to put up with this. You know, there's been a number of obviously high profile domestic violence murder incidents and J just the people now are just saying no, I you know, I won't put up with this and and I think they're more happier or I won't say happier, but they're more prolific at reporting than than keeping things quiet and sitting back and yeah and all that sort of stuff. So because there's a lot more help out there available for people. So so those are the two things that have certainly that have changed significantly. The other thing that I know that I certainly have seen is just the number of and this is probably on more gory side of of details, is the massive improvement in medical treatment for people at accident scenes. Yeah. Just absolutely out of this world, you know, compared to what it was, you know. and and it's but you know, again it's the evolution of time, it's the evolution of im of improvements and, you know, providing better services to the the public and everything else just you know, gotta keep keep people alive at at all costs and everything else. So you know, they're the probab the big things that I've seen change. Okay. You know. Yeah. And you might not want to speak about this but I'll throw it out anyway. There any bugbears with any sort of legislation at all that you go, especially as I said, you're from a boss perspective. It's easy for me, you know, I wasn't the boss, so you deal with my drama afterwards. But yeah, you from a boss perspective, is there any legislation that you look at and go, geez, I wish that was different? I think all legislation could be different. you know From a tra I I s so I'll you know, I'll s I'll start at a traffic perspective. I think that we've really got to start dealing with the dramas on the road in a far more serious manner. you know, and when I say a far more serious manner, some people talk about it and they say, you know, he's got he's got money, there's a money and there's also a demerit point. penalty. Back in and some people would yeah, I don't like using this terminology loosely, back in the good old days when w we had warrants of commitment and it was amazing how many people we knocked on the door and said, Mate, you wanted Aaron, we got two warrants here, you know. And somebody in the house would say, How much how much are they for? Yeah. And you'd say, you know, say three hundred and seventy dollars. And you gotta go back, it's either, you know, this or four days. Yeah. Yeah. At the watch house. And by the time you got back to the station the senior'd ring you up and say, Hey, listen guys, there's somebody here with three hundred and seventy bucks. Yeah. So I think spur has been one of the has been one of the worst things ever introduced by any government. Really? Okay. Yeah, that's a headline its own. I like that one. Simply because it it it now you know we get people out there who got seventy thousand dollars or had I should say back in my day, seventy thousand dollars worth of fines and they just kept getting a lot. You know, at what stage? Refer spur, refer spur. Yeah, refer to spur and I'll just pay it off at spur and so long as they're paying things off, nobody, you know, like no one and then they'd okay. And then they change tact a little bit. So I think that there is one of the things that they really need that needs to change and change significantly. Not from a revenue perspective, but from the perspective that people knew that if they got a warrant, that sooner or later somebody would be around. You know, like we've got the advances that we have now in technology would just make life for police a lot easier and certainly take a burden off society in the fact that well this person can't. And if if somebody does get you know, they dis get caught disqualified driving and all that type of thing, yes, you know. your license is taken away from you and it's enforced that if you get caught again, it's not just another terminology of I'll increase your disqualification period. There is some jail time associated with it. You know, go we go back to, you know, the houses, you know, breaking into houses and premises and all that type of stuff and everything else. A house is somebody's castle. We could probably I I keep hearing the terminology castle, castle law, you know, like we could probably make certainly make that a lot clearer and make it a lot, you know, so that the public members, the community know not that we want vigilantes, but just so that people know well w at to what level. can I defend my home if I if I have the ability to be able to defend it? I'm certainly not saying asking an eighty year old person, you know, that they should you know but in the circumstances and then, you know, we should really bring not in incarceration but probably, you know, more of the camps that they're bringing in for the youth and all that type of stuff, even for adults and you know the community service of hard labour of okay, you can go round to these parks and spend your Saturdays and Sundays whippers snipping and mowing parks and all that type of thing and everything else, you know. So I mean that they're probably the two things. The other thing that I think is really, really wrong is bullying. but that's a completely different You talking the workplace there? Well, workplace bullying plus also bullying in schools. Yeah, yeah. you know, that's just social media has just enabled that to be taken to a completely different level. Absolutely. You know, and we don't develop You know, everybody develops, everyone is unique, everyone develops at different, you know, different times and different levels and all that. And unfortunately a lot you know, the favorite the or you know, the favorite kid in the class is the one that you know, tends to lead a lot of the bullying and all that because, you know, they don't like somebody because of, you know, the way their hair is their hair is or their clothes are or, you know, and all that type of stuff. And you just sort of think, you know, like everybody you know, we're all unique. We all come from a different set of circumstances and nobody is, you know, aware of circumstances that that people are in, you know. And I think that is another thing that probably n And how you do that is just yeah, that's just a line. Yeah. So based off that, if you were in charge, you're in charge, yeah. You're the premier or you're in charge of creating potentially a new law or adjusting a law. Yeah. This is you right now, it's your platform. The next law adjusted created is yourself, what law would it be? are you taking one away? Are you adding one? Where are we at? Well I mean we could Subject. Yeah, you have. You have. I mean, it's probably a certain opinion about renewable energy. let's let's not let's stick it back to crime. Let's say for instance we this could end up being a five day test match. Well, that's exactly right. Yeah. You might you might might get inundated with abuse on online abuse. That's right. Last thing we want. But probably from a crime perspective, I think we need to be able to have led a piece of legislation because you know like it it was sort of like we had to you gotta introduce specific laws all the time for all these different things and everything else. And I think And how you draft this I have no idea, but to have a law that encompasses changes that, you know, may come up. You know, we've gone from As w as they say, the old crowbar days or screwdriver days of people forcing entry into homes and all that, you know, you know, kids climb through windows or doors people's doors are left open or whatever type scenario. So, you know, they've now got the the device, you know, that can unlock your car and y so they don't need the keys to steal your car and things like that. But I I just think we just a piece of legislation that would be nice would be to s to stop and the it the proliferation of this technology coming into our country unless it's for a lawful purpose. Okay. You know, so you know, I know and I know that probably puts Timu and Sheen or Shine or whatever they call it, Sheen offline and everything else. But the daughter will be devastated, yeah. Daugh may yeah, she will be she will be devastated. But you know, like I mean, for everything should be, you know, for that you do should be for a lawful purpose and you know, what is what is your intent of purchasing one of these decoders? Yeah. And Unless it's for an unlawful purpose, you know. So, you know, people like RACQ, you know, they're entitled to have all you know, this type of stuff, you know. Security companies, etcetera licensing around being able to obtain and be one of those people that can order that. Yeah. And but then again, you know, then the hard part then becomes in well then who's gonna police it and all those sorts of things. And I think one of the things would be not to make it the responsibility of the police to police. It you know, the police have got a hard enough job as it is. I, you know, if there was one thing I could change, I would like to see a d a domestic violence service that attends domestic violence incidents. We had in Ipswich we had or a away from? Are we talking Civilians in the civilians. Yeah, one might say it's we had a mental health nurse, so we had a trial at Ipswich. I still don't I don't know whether it's whether it's gone statewide or anything. Where on Friday and Saturday nights they would be in a car with a police officer attending mental health assessments. Assessments and making the decision. You know, they would make the decision. I would like to see something. just to because the number of domestics that and I know I've been out for five years, but just the number of domestics that police are attending have just exploded. And you know, the thin blue line, as they say, gets thinner and thinner and thinner and the pressure on them gets more and more and more. But just to have a a a service that is available twenty-four hours a day to be able to go take the load off so police can police again as far as requirement different things are concerned. Yeah so that if police turn around and say, yep, this is a d this is a domestic violence incident, this lady needs help, that they can do their side of the work and then the service, the D V service can do, can look after the lady Or the ma or the man and the the kids and their their interests and all that type of thing and everything else. So, you know, like a coordinated approach. Okay. You know, very much a coordinated approach. Yeah, the more I look at it, it's a lot easier when you're you're retired and you see it a different way and you've got the mates calling you up and venting to you, I'm leading you down that same path as well. Mindset wise is that an external service that can free up the everyday police to go out and do their other bits and pieces and go from there. So yeah, like you said, I I was would attend some those trials from that mental health perspective with a practitioner there that'll do that. So I'm not sure if that's rolled out yet either. Away from that, something I wanna bring into it, we obviously deal with a lot of the The newspapers, the media, I wanna throw out two different things to you, two different headlines. And this first one here aligns very very aligned with yourself now retiring from the police service. But there was a bit of a push in the last month or two, and I believe it may as potentially still be going through the courts. The forced age retirement at sixty as police. Yeah. Your thoughts having age retired. I love it. only bec simply because of the fact that policing is an enormous responsibility. again, you don't unfortunately we all have attended too many funerals where people have passed away. but I think after you spend a lifetime And I know that a lot of people now don't spend a lifetime in the police simply because of the pressures that are on them. But because you spend so much time and and money f personally getting things right in that career and the impact that it has where you're away not away from your family or you can be away from your family, but the fact that the family don't see you for a long, long time. and the impost that you know that's placed upon you both mentally and physically from everything that you've done. I certainly agree with the age of sixty. Okay. Because it's gives still gives you enough it gives you a time prior to your body starting to show the signs of age and I talk about the mid seventies here. so you've still got like ten to fifteen years where you can, you know, enjoy yeah enjoy a bit of life and go off and do a couple of things while you've still got a bit of physical fitness about you and all that. so yeah, I'm a big believer, I certainly believe in this in the sixty retirement because, you know, I've only been out for five years and you can j you just feel the way that you're body, all the aches and pains don't become aches and pains anymore. You know, it you sort of feel like the old dog when you get up in the morning and you gotta do all these stretching exercises, you know, get the legs going and the arms and everything else. And you know, so I I think yeah the age retirement is and it's beneficial from the perspective that you've also had enough. because you're dealing with a a bureaucratic agency that you've probably seen across a lifetime of just say 30 years, you've probably that gives you the opportunity to see eight different governments. Yeah, yeah, you're right. And each govern each government has their own strategy, each government has their own objective and principles. And you know, you adjust to all that and you may not like a lot of the stuff that different governments bring in, but at the end of the day it's something that impacts upon you and the more you go up in the organization, the more that you are influenced by what the government absolutely asks for. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So yeah. Okay. Now, this a last media type question. It might just be the timing that you have to come in this week, but to explain to any of those that aren't in the policing job. Your general duties will get tasked a job, they'll attend the job. They'll determine from there I there might be a bit more in this. Yeah. They might have to declare a crime scene. Yeah. The DDOs, RDOs, things like that. Yeah. get a call. Now you were, I guess, in that sort of RDO role to a degree. Yep. You get a call. that there's a body in a suitcase in Sydney. Yeah. You're the one probably fronting up to speak to the media. I know your face is out there a bit speaking to the media and that sort of thing. Yeah. With what's happened in Sydney this week where we've reported that a A body's found, a suitcase, put it on alarm bells, only to have to then front the media a second time the next day. Yeah. And say that it was a sex style. Yeah. Putting yourself in those shoes, how are you what are you doing? How are you dealing with that? Well, I mean, you would hope that the people who have a sick day initially attend the job would if The first responding police didn't know. Yeah. bearing in mind that a lot of people have never seen Blazing Saddles. So, and you know, we can explain what Blazing Saddles is about and all that sort of thing, but it's good old s s satirical movie. but you would hope that As others turn up, particularly your scenes of crime people and all that, that you would quickly be able to decipher that it's not a real human being. That's insane. And you would be able to say, Yeah, there's nothing here. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Yeah, I and I haven't looked it up. I've looked to the female officer brass that has come out and made that announcement. So I'll try I don't know if she's the one that made the original announcement, but from my end I'll Well the the number of memes that are now going across spread across social media is it's sort of a bit, you know, sort of belittling, I suppose, you know, all good intents of purposes and all that. You know, we've been and we've all had situations where people found bones and all that and you you hope and then you wait. And then they come back and they say, no, they're you know, like their animal bones and stuff like that. And but, you know, in that in that circumstance there, I mean I I mean, I don't know about you. Aaron, whether or not you've into a s into the sex stole trade or anything like that, but I wouldn't have it's it's not my trade, however, I can I did go to a job many years ago where someone had broken into an adult store and there there was about a five, ten minute delay between the break and the alarms going off, so I sat up at a certain area and according. Yeah. I had to see a bloke limping up with a a hoodie and different things. I got him to drop the hoodie have a look and yeah, he had pretty much four hundred D V D's, blow up dolls, all sorts of things. So that's probably my only dealing with that side of it. But having to lodge every bit of property in individually and typing in the different names of movies and things was was quite entertaining for the next two days. But Yeah Jenny goes to town. there's all sorts of things happening there. Yeah it was it it was good laughter in the office, you know, when the first down so You know and that's and that's probably one of you know having been there, you know, and we cop the police culture cop you used, you know, usually cops a bit of a bit of a bagging from from different people and all that sort of stuff. But you know, every every organization has its culture. Yeah. you know, everyone adapts like I'm working part time now and that company with that company, we have our own culture, you know, things that you find funny and all that type of stuff and everything else. People s mightn't get my sense of humor at times 'cause it's fairly dark. But you know, the you it's one of those things that we all have w you know, we have that Everybody has that culture. You know, you talk about that culture. You make fun of these types of things and everything else, but yeah, that's not a situation that I mean the only positive input it wasn't a human. So that's a win in that absolutely. You know, the that's the that's the most important thing that it's not a human, but it I would not want to have been the commissioned officer fronting the media and saying, look, by the way, yes, we got it wrong. It was a plantasti it was a plastic fantastic. sort of thing and because I if I go back, if I do my Googles, is there is there a report that you did where you swore on national TV at any stage or am I imagining that one? well I didn't it wasn't never s n it never went to national TV. It stayed it stayed in their Memory banks until after I retired and then got released, thankfully. Google that one, guys. Keith Keith McDonald, I'm not sure what it comes under, but you'll you'll find it. Yeah, yeah. To finish off with Brian, appreciate you coming on and having a chat, especially post an amazing career. I'm gonna finish it off with and thank you for your service. I'm gonna finish it off with two pet peeves. Throw at me. Everyday things that just Give you that little twitch of the eye. people don't know how to merge. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. And the price of everything. That's a pet peeve. Are you so am I I'm walking past you in a shop and you're going back in my day, is that what I'm expecting to hear? No, no, not that. It's just that just how the price of everything goes up and I and the pet peeve being, you know, so rates go up, house insurance goes up, you know, motor vehicle insurance goes up, Regio goes up, you know, and everyone goes, well, we gotta put it because, you know, cot inflation's gone up and all those sorts of things. And you go But what's you know registering my vehicle, like where is the cost involved in re-registering a vehicle? Yeah. No, I get it. Again, we this could be that five day tense match we're talking about. That's mate. Absolutely. You know, and it I you know, but yeah, it's certainly but you know, to end on a positive note, I mean the thing that I always that you know, people out there who might be sort of having a bit of a difficult time or anything like that. So I always say to people, talk to someone. Just sit down, talk to somebody, you know, and just having a chat is normally, you know, good enough. We've we went back in the good old days, if you know, we can say that. You had to suck it up and have a have a couple of beers after the job sort of thing. And that was it. It was never spoken about after that. where you know, nowada where we know now that that's not the case at all and things that play on people's minds, you just gotta talk talk to others about it and and everything else sort of stuff and You don't know what people carry, you know, they they front up and they don't know what what everyone's bringing to work with them and everyday life. So 'cause 'cause mate, we're all human. Everyone everyone's human, as I said before, everyone makes a mistake. and we're all affected by by the one by a thing differently. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. No two people are the same, so no appreciate that. As I said, Keith, I appreciate you coming in. Thank you. No way. Appreciate for your service to both military and police. Yep. And I like to say enjoy retirement, but you're out there working again, so enjoy your part time retirement mate. Well, I was sitting at home and then my wife said, Will you go and do something, please? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I get it. But you know, the probably the big rule about retirement is you've got to stay active, keep your mind active and keep the body active and all those types of things. You know, you can't you can't shop. You might want to Aaron seven days a week, but I can't shop seven days a week. Mate, appreciate it. Thank you so much for coming on and shopping that. No worries. Thanks, Matt. Thank you.