Caroline Gidiere: Hey Paloma! PalomaContreras: Hey Caroline, how are you? Good in Gay Paris. Such a such a beautiful view there of what is that, Notre Dame behind you? Caroline Gidiere: Doing great, doing great. Gay parades. Yes, it's the back of Notre Dame. I don't know what they meant when they said five years for the refurbishment after the fire, but it's still very much under construction. You can go in the front, but I don't know if you can see the PalomaContreras: Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Caroline Gidiere: the crane and the other stuff, it's still they're still working on it. I I'm not surprised given the level of craftsmanship to restore it. know, but ⁓ yeah. It's right there and the Bateau Mouche just passed by and ⁓ and ⁓ for the pod, the the Skies are gonna clear up. ⁓ It's PalomaContreras: Yeah, yeah. I mean to ⁓ so lovely. Love it. Well it's bright and sunny here where I am in Kabo this week. ⁓ you can maybe see the ocean just beyond. Caroline Gidiere: It looks incredible. Yeah. PalomaContreras: ⁓ we've been having a really nice time. It was we were actually meant to be in Paris and that would have been so nice actually. I hadn't thought about that. We would have been there at the same time. So my original plan was were gonna take Margot ⁓ to Paris for the first time this week. ⁓ then ⁓ after my mom's dementia in March, we pivoted. I think I ⁓ was of feeling like I needed to stay close to home. And now ⁓ in it probably would have been fine, you know, because as you aware, it's it's kind of slow burn, it's it's not as early. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. PalomaContreras: urgent as it felt to me in that moment, but we you know had a lot of things to figure out between then and now. So we just did something kind of last minute and ⁓ stuck closer to home. But hopefully next year we'll get over to Paris or maybe English countryside or something. Caroline Gidiere: Sure. And you know, you make decisions in the moment in moments of crisis like that and it's easy enough for anyone to say, Hey, I don't think this is, you know, something that you should change your plans for. But it's another thing to live through that moment and and PalomaContreras: Я Caroline Gidiere: be in a calm enough place to be able to make that call, you know, sometimes. ⁓ but ⁓ there's always Paris - You can always come back, it'll always be Yeah. PalomaContreras: Right. Yeah. That's right. And it'll always be there and always be as wonderful as it is. So how has your vacation been? I know you mentioned on a previous episode that this was your first trip without your children in tow in over 20 years. How are the honeymooners? Caroline Gidiere: It has been it it has been wonderful. We are having a great time. It's been great to just kinda go by the seat of our pants and not just make a call. ⁓ we didn't make a lot of reservations. PalomaContreras: Good! Mm-hmm. Caroline Gidiere: in advance because for me that's really a vacation too, you know, sometimes everything is so scheduled. We have so much to do. ⁓ like ⁓ having to think about something. ⁓ I also find when we use travel agents, we end up over scheduled ⁓ and then it's really a vacation. And I really wanted to sleep late ⁓ and not be a panic every day. I mean just to like reset my reticulating blah blah system, whatever it is. PalomaContreras: Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: where you're I'm not always anxious about trying to get somewhere and do something. So it's been so relaxing, but I'm not gonna lie, I miss my kids. I they are to the age where I enjoy their company. We have a lot of fun together and particularly now that they've gotten even older I just feel like we would be having a lot of fun together. So I think between now and when they don't want to go with us anymore we probably won't do it. PalomaContreras: I'm sure, yeah. Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: just the two of us only because I mean we're having a great time, we get along great, it's you know very luxurious, but we keep seeing things that we would like to share with them, if that makes any sense. So PalomaContreras: Yeah. That's understandable. Absolutely. Well, the beauty of it is you're in cities that you know well and love and so as you said you don't have that pressure of trying to see and do everything. and you can kind of Caroline Gidiere: That's right. PalomaContreras: adopt a slower pace, which is really nice. but I I totally get what you're talking about because even though we're sort of at different ends of the journey, ⁓ will be five ⁓ a few days. ⁓ such a pleasure to to with now. You know, like she's still needy. She's still, you know, with the time difference here, it's two hours earlier than it is back home in Texas. So she walks in and wakes me up at ⁓ sometime the five o'clock hour ⁓ every on vacation. Caroline Gidiere: Pick and choose, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. PalomaContreras: But I don't mind. I like you know, I like I look forward to it. I look forward to waking up with her and it's just really fun to, you know, see the world through her eyes and share things. So I would imagine as they get older and they're, you know, true people with interests and opinions and all the things that it would be really, really fun to experience places that mean a lot to you with them. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And Margot is gonna be ⁓ for you, like Lou is for me, my kind of shopping buddy who's always like, Hey, let's pop into Sephora, let's go do this, let's go do that, and keeps me on the move. And so I've been a little lazy with all of that stuff, but I have had some fun shopping while ⁓ I've been here. I went ⁓ and got some shirts at Charvet, which I'm excited about. And ⁓ yeah. PalomaContreras: Yeah. Right. ⁓ good. Ooh nice. Caroline Gidiere: I Did not tell you about reservations, did not make my reservation for a custom shirt far enough in advance. So I didn't get to do that. But that'll be for next time. This time I just got some, you know, I love a button-down, so and not a button-down, but I just got blue, classic blue, and then they did not have white in my size, which is what I really would have loved. But I got a beautiful stripe, and you know, they do stripe so PalomaContreras: Okay. Yeah, what colours did you get? Mm-hmm. Ya. Caroline Gidiere: Well the guy kind of walked me through all the details on stripes and everything. ⁓ but you know, I think I wash and wear these and ⁓ the next time I come back I will be sure to make an appointment. But so we've just shopped around. We've been to see so many great exhibits already. ⁓ probably more than we would have done with the kids because they give you a hard eye roll when you go but PalomaContreras: Right. Caroline Gidiere: Now let me just say this. My and Stephen always gets to be the good guy and I'm always the bad guy when it comes to ⁓ art history. Because I'm like, let's go. And I always want to talk to them about the art and they could not hate it They so ⁓ annoyed, their eyes, they're disgusted, and then there's Stephen standing there being like the fun dad who's like, let's go some, ⁓ you know, ⁓ note pens things at the gift shop. PalomaContreras: No. Caroline Gidiere: you know and leave mommy to look at the stuff and it's like so I'm the loser but now they take great pride in having been to all these museums and seen these pieces of art that they begin to study in school so I just say that to say don't be discouraged say all the things still be the mom still educate your children even though they hate it and they hate it and they hate it until one day they appreciate it. That's all I'm saying. PalomaContreras: Я. Yes. Right. That's good advice for sure. Caroline Gidiere: But so we've done a lot. We went today, we went out to Malmaison this afternoon. Yeah, you would love it. We went, Bryan, Mark, here comes the Bateaux Mouches, Mark, and Sarah I went a Deco Off a couple of years ago and it in January, it was a cold and rainy day. ⁓ And there's much about Josephine's gardens that they talked about. ⁓ PalomaContreras: ⁓ I've never been to Malmaison, but I it's on my list. Mm-hmm. Caroline Gidiere: And I told Stephen, I was like, you know, you and I need to go back. I need to take you to Malmaison own so you can see the And Stephen's a history buff. You I don't know what it takes to be a buff. ⁓ Famous from ⁓ from But ⁓ He loves to read books about history and he's been reading about Napoleon and Lafayette. And so today this morning we went to the Lafayette in America ⁓ at the archives then from there we went out to Malmaison to see the gardens and I'm gonna tell you what, after seeing all those beautiful gardens ⁓ in the UK last month, I was like, well this disappointing. ⁓ PalomaContreras: Mm. Yeah. I it changes your perspective, I have to say. I mean I am a tried and true bona fide francophile and now I'm kind of like hmm like if I could choose between a country house in France and a country house in England, I think I'm going England. I mean does Caroline Gidiere: And it does. It's like I have to say, I'm like, what's up guys? Are y'all out of money? I mean PalomaContreras: Ha ha Caroline Gidiere: I mean, what has happened out here? It's just like it's all too natural for me. And there's a Monty Don, you know, I I don't know if you know the British Gardener ⁓ who has the show, the like, I can't think of the name of it. Anyway, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, he has one on Malmaison that we watched years ago. I'm gonna have to pull it back up and look. Is this how it's meant to be? Or is this that France has fallen on hard times? PalomaContreras: Yeah. ⁓ ⁓ yeah yeah yeah yeah. Right. Have they let it go? Caroline Gidiere: Has put all of its resources towards like the Olympics in Notre Dame and let Malmaison kind of crust over out there. The interior is fabulous. It's incredible, so inspiring. I think of all the queens of the world, she is the one I find most inspiring. She was the most stylish, the one who got the power of perception of PalomaContreras: Right. Mm-hmm. Mm. Caroline Gidiere: you know, how important it was for Napoleon, whatever y we want to think of him, but in his rise to power, the the fashion, the interiors, the parties, the food, the, ⁓ and crystal the all the different that she had. It's really, ⁓ really so beautiful. And her rooms so iconic. I mean we're all still copying those rooms today. And she the first she with worked with PalomaContreras: Amazing. Right. Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: the architects anyway. Really, really amazing. Okay, tell me more. What what is going on in Cabo? Are y'all doing anything fun? You sitting around the pool like I like to do reading a book. PalomaContreras: ⁓ Sitting around the pool reading I'm reading a book. I just started a new book called Finding Grace by Loretta Rothschild. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. PalomaContreras: And it's really good. I'm not too far in. we were at the pool all day yesterday and I was in the pool more than I was out of the pool, so I didn't get to read too much of it. But I will say it threw me for a loop. I mean, it really draws you in. This is, I think, a debut novel by this author, Loretta Rothschild. I'm not sure. I think I know she's English. I'm not sure what association she has with the Rothschild family. Surely there's some. Caroline Gidiere: Sure. Really? PalomaContreras: But it's a pretty dazzling debut. So I read the first chapter on the plane, and then it ends with something that completely throws you for a loop. I mean, you are not expecting it. At first I thought it was like a metaphor for something else, and then I kept reading and I was like, ⁓ no, like that actually happened. So it's it shocks you, and then you're dull, you're dealing with reading about the aftermath, you know, another protagonist or the person that becomes the central protagonist. Protagonist is dealing with the aftermath of the shocking thing that happens. And I was like in tears on the plane. So I don't know. I'm hoping it's not like that the whole way through because I like kind of a light and frothy beach read. ⁓ right before that, I read another book called The H no The Midnight Feast by Lucy Foley, who's an author that I really enjoy. She's also English. and that was really good. It was about this like Caroline Gidiere: Ha ha. Sure. PalomaContreras: Gwenneth Palatro esque type of like, you know health, you know, ⁓ wellness goddess kind of girl who had inherited her family, her grandparents' manor house in a town in Dover and o turned it into like a Soho farmhouse kind of thing. ⁓ but then there's all this stuff happening in the background with the locals and there's this like folklore about what happens in the woods. And that was I devoured that. That was like more my speed for a beach read. But I'm gonna stick with my book. I think it I think it's I mean it's really good. It's just a little heavy for of vacation read. But other than that it's just, you know Caroline Gidiere: Mm. Okay. Yeah. PalomaContreras: Full time. We actually have an interesting story, and I wonder if this has ever happened to you. We but we had booked a different hotel. So we're at Esperanza, we've stayed here many times and we love it. And this time around, this was kind of a last-minute trip since we had originally intended to be in Paris, and we were just here in March for spring break. And so Fabian and I were both like, well, should we just try something new, change of scenery? And we did. And we stayed one night and we hated it. We hated the Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. PalomaContreras: Other hotel, and again, I mean we've talked about low maintenance, high maintenance. I don't think I'm super high maintenance, but there were just too many things, and it's a very high maintenance thing to do, but there were too many issues like between things wrong with the room, the service in multiple venues on property, the food was abysmal. and I feel like your accommodations have to be comfortable, the service has to be good, you have to enjoy the food. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah. PalomaContreras: Otherwise like you're not enjoying your vacation, at least for me anyhow. And so it became I Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah. If you're gonna sit there and fume, you might as well just get up and do something about it. You know what I'm saying? And instead of just PalomaContreras: Exactly. And that's how I felt. I was like I could feel I felt the difference when we got here. Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. PalomaContreras: And I could let my shoulders down and relax, and I we we all noticed the difference. Like we just exhaled and felt at home and comfortable and relaxed. And we were never gonna feel that way at the other place. And I'm not gonna say the name because the manager was very nice and really tried hard to get us to stay and to do everything that she could for us, but I just knew that that you know, they're not gonna suddenly change the quality of their food or a lot of other things that just weren't, it just wasn't a fit for us. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No. Yeah, yeah. That that's a page out of my mother's book. I've never done that but I spent my whole childhood with a mother who would like if the table wasn't right when they took us over there, she's like, honey, I'm sorry, excuse me, we're gonna need to be at this table over here and the number of hotel rooms that we ⁓ walked in the door and like turned around and walked back out. She's like, don't sit on the bed ⁓ PalomaContreras: It wasn't a good match. Yeah. Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: Turn it back around. This will not do. PalomaContreras: That's so fun. I did worry, I will say, like I I really labored over the decision because I'd made up my dis my mind on day one before we even slept there. But we slept at the hotel and in the middle of the night I'm like on American Express trying to see what else is available. And then the next day I was I was kind of like, what message does this send to Margot? Thankfully she's young enough that it went right over her head. She was happy where we were, and like, you know, she can find something to be happy about because she's Caroline Gidiere: No, I get it. I know you, Pilemma. Yeah, sure. Sure. Right, sure. Yeah. Sure, yeah. PalomaContreras: little and then she's happy here so it's fine but I was like if she were 14 I think I would be really mindful about the way that I approached it because I don't want her to I don't know like I it Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. PalomaContreras: I'm sure some people might think it's entitled, but I feel like because we only take so many family vacations a year and we work really hard, I'm entitled to relax and enjoy my time where I am because it's not about the cost of it. Like that place is no less expensive than this place. It's just a different vibe. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. You want to relax. Yeah. No, I totally get it. So no, I totally I totally get it. And you don't wanna just be feeling like you're throwing your money away and fuming and knowing there's a better place and you could go. So I I absolutely I feel like you did the right thing. Is that your low for the week? Your high your low or your high or got something else? All in one. PalomaContreras: Yeah. ⁓ god. ⁓ I mean I guess it's kind of the high and the low wrapped to ge wrapped in one because it started in at a low and then ⁓ having to deal with that, you know, the f day before last I spent the first half of the day on phone with the manager at the r at the other hotel and then calling American Express to see if they could refund any part of our stay and thankfully we got it all sorted out and it's not gonna be a total loss which is good. I think that helped get Fabian on board. and so just dealing with the logistics and poor Margot like keeping her entertained, like okay we're gonna figure we're gonna g do something soon, you know, keeping her in a hotel room instead of by the pool or on the beach is not ideal. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah. PalomaContreras: so that was definitely the low and then the high was knowing that I made the right move and you know that we're having this is such a better fit and we're happy and relaxed here. So that's been good. I will say one other thing that it brings to mind is like just trusting your instincts because before we left, I went and checked the cancellation policy for that hotel and almost felt like we should we should switch. Something in me kind of knew what was to come, but I was like, no, I'll you know, we'll we'll give it a chance. Fabian wanted to try something different, so not to blame it on him, but I was like, ⁓ just go with the flow and now I know like just trust your inner voice and book the hotel you Caroline Gidiere: Sure, sure. Yeah. Learn to listen. Learn to listen. Well, I'm gonna start with my low. I have two. Do you see this? I have a huge spider bite that is so much better looking now than it was yesterday and the day before. I was sitting out on this balcony. I was sitting on this balcony and there was a tiny little spider, maybe this big. PalomaContreras: Yeah. Yeah, so what's go ahead. ⁓ my gosh. Ouch. Where did that happen? Caroline Gidiere: was very non-plussed by my presence and unwilling to move. Like normally, you know, a spider is gonna scurry away and I kept trying to like ⁓ my nail next to it to get it to scoot on and it wouldn't. ⁓ it was just like looking at me, like get out of my way. ⁓ ⁓ I woke up the next morning, I had this huge spider bite, which concerned me for a while. It's getting a lot better, but I had to draw like a circle around the center of it to s see, and it was bigger. But ⁓ PalomaContreras: ⁓ my gosh. ⁓ no. Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: and puffy and like the side of my arm hurt really bad. And also in the middle of the night, I can't really show you the gash on my shin. I woke up in the middle of the night to go get some water and I had left my water glass in the kitchen. PalomaContreras: Ouch. Caroline Gidiere: And there's a little wooden post. It's one of these Louis Ces beds that has the headboard, but then the mattress is just on the little feet on the end. And I whammed in my shin bone right into the corner of it. ⁓ my god. PalomaContreras: Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ gosh, that hurts so badly. It like knocks the wind out of you when stuff like that happens. Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ my gosh, I really thought I was gonna die from pain and it luckily wasn't broken, but it felt like I hit it hard enough that I could have fractured it. ⁓ but my good week is outside of just being in Paris, my favorite snack, like in the whole world, is the Balin Sheepsdale. Do you know do you know of the Ships the Chipster? When I PalomaContreras: ⁓ my god. No. I don't know. Well, you're the the chip connoisseur apparently. As I learned on our last adventure together when you had thirty-five varieties of potato chips. Okay. Caroline Gidiere: Hold please. I have to show you things. Hold, hold, hold. PalomaContreras: Look at that view, so pretty. Caroline Gidiere: When I was here way long time ago, way, way, way back in the day, had the Belin Chipster ⁓ ⁓ Chipster ⁓ I them. I and this is box number two. Okay, first of all, the it's not a huge box, okay. ⁓ PalomaContreras: ⁓ no. The like cheap stair. Okay. Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: And they put it in some packaging, you know, so it's still it's like by weight. This is like not much more than like a big singular bag of chips. but ⁓ So they look like this. I'm afraid it's gonna fly off. Can you this? ⁓ Okay, so it's a like it's like potato dried potato flakes that they make into form into kind of like a kind of like a a Pringle. But they're super crunchy and yummy. every time I get to France, the first thing I do is go and box buy a box of these. And I'm on box number two. PalomaContreras: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ y well I'm gonna have to try them next time. Somebody wants to say hi to you. Hold on. No, no, just really quickly. Come say hi. Can you say hi to Miss Caroline? Caroline Gidiere: Are you having the best time? PalomaContreras: Let's see. Speak into this part right here. Can you say can you say hi? Hi. Are you having the best time? She wants to know. Are you having the best time? Hold on. Here. I'm gonna put this in your ear, okay? Okay. Okay. Can you hear Miss Caroline? Yeah. Can you hear her? Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ there we go. Ha ha Margo, what's your favorite trick to do in the pool right now? PalomaContreras: Can you say hello? Hi. Caroline Gidiere: Hi. Margo, tell me what's your favorite PalomaContreras: Do you know where she is? She's in Paris. Say are you in Paris, Miss Caroline? Are you in Paris, Miss Caroline? Caroline Gidiere: I am I am Margot. I'm in Paris. You need to go to Paris. Don't you think? It's about time? Yes, I think so. Hey PalomaContreras: Yes. Okay. Tell her you're gonna go to the swimming pool. I'm gonna go to the swimming pool. Caroline Gidiere: Well let me ask you right quick, what's your favorite trick to do in the pool right now? Mm, just kinda s learning to swim. PalomaContreras: What did she ask you? What's your favorite? What's my favorite trick to do in the swimming pool right now? What did she say? What's your favorite trick to do in the swimming pool? ⁓ what's your favorite thing to do in the swimming pool? Mmm. Swim, right? Yeah. Do you like to swim? Okay. Say bye Miss Caroline, good to see you. Bye. Okay, bye. Go have fun. Yes. Caroline Gidiere: Swim. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Bye. So good to see you. PalomaContreras: later. Mommy's still on the call, okay? When I'm finished. I can't wait to see your seashells. ⁓ sorry. ⁓ kept waving at me from inside and I was like, Okay, come on out. ⁓ standing at the glass. Caroline Gidiere: She's so precious. She's so precious. Love her. Too bunny. PalomaContreras: Poor thing, she walked right into the there's these big sliding glass doors that open onto this terrace. She walked right into it yesterday and smacked her forehead and her knee. And I was like, ⁓ I mean we've all been there, you know, we've all w walked into a glass door. I'm su I mean surely you have. I know I certainly have. And it's always a double whammy of like the physical pain and then the embarrassment that you feel. ⁓ Caroline Gidiere: mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. We have a family joke with Lou in Paris when we used to bring her when she was that age. There are these metal posts that they put in the middle of the sidewalks that mark the driveways, you know? And she would be walking along and three different occasions on one trip. And we were like, Lou, stop. She walked straight into those things. But PalomaContreras: ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ She's just the perfect height to get smacked right in the f mm. Caroline Gidiere: to just wow and then and she would get this big goose egg on her forehead which is good and now you know you don't have any concussion issues but bad that sense but then also with the Tuileries there was a house of glass and she walked slam PalomaContreras: Yeah, yeah. ⁓ man. Caroline Gidiere: into the class. And she was so sensitive about the issue for the longest time it really embarrassed her that she had done that so many times. Now it's a fun joke, but anyway. Okay, look, there's I don't know if you can see. ⁓ can you see the ⁓ PalomaContreras: Ha ha ha. I can see it. Yeah, I can see it going by. Yeah. ⁓ you got any Berthillon ice cream since you're on the Île Saint Louis? Okay. Caroline Gidiere: It was fun. ⁓ has. I I haven't. ⁓ he goes every night and gets some and ⁓ the night Saint Germain beat ⁓ the I Arsenal the ⁓ whatever league. Yeah, in the in the champions league. ⁓ my gosh. ⁓ The city ⁓ crazy. was ⁓ PalomaContreras: ⁓ I saw that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. For the World Cup. ⁓ the Euroleague, yeah. That's so fun. Caroline Gidiere: Two o'clock in the morning, and these people were out here on these boats bumping the music, having a good time. Like the whole city was going crazy. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. Yes. Okay, before we get into the other stuff, I have a product recommendation. And this is un yeah, because PalomaContreras: That's so fun. So you Okay. Ooh, do tell. Caroline Gidiere: This is it's not gonna be good for you though, Palema, I have to tell you, because even in the description you'll understand why. Okay. The top of it says day old hair, same day. Okay, you never have dailed hair because you don't have frizzy curly hair like I have. You wash your hair every day and dry it. Okay, your hair, I'm assuming, doesn't get frizzy like mine does, which is why I don't dry. PalomaContreras: Okay. Okay. Yeah. ⁓ no, it gets frizz it gets frizzy and that's part of why I have to I wash it every day because you know there are some girls who can go a couple of days without washing it and their hair just like looks great after they've styled it once. But like when I wake instance, when I woke up this morning, I washed my hair last night. And when we do beach vacations like this, ⁓ usually shower at night before dinner and then the next day I just have my ⁓ you know, go straight to the pool and then bathe again at night. ⁓ this morning when I woke up, I guess I slept Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah. Go straight to the pool. Yeah. PalomaContreras: kind of rough like my hair was kind of crazy and it's dry here but at home it does get very frizzy so I may actually like this. Caroline Gidiere: Okay. Okay. Well it's McMillan Styling Bomb. PalomaContreras: Okay. And that's Jennifer Aniston's hairstylist, big hairstylist of the stars, right? Caroline Gidiere: I don't think he is a hairstylist with stars. I think I think it was the blonde guy that lives in Nashville, right? No, that did Jennifer Aniston? Maybe it is. Maybe I know he does a lot of stars. Okay, Chris McMillan. Okay. PalomaContreras: No, it's it's Chris McMillan. Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ he's got a whole new line. I've got all of his stuff. I just fished this I I bought a packet of miniatures because I needed miniatures of the hairspray and the the heat protector that he has that I use. And I mean they're great, but they're not unlike anything else that I that I've ever used. And ⁓ I just needed the miniatures and I could get all of them, you know, like in a little packet for a deal. It was on sale and PalomaContreras: Mm-hmm. Caroline Gidiere: So when we got here in Paris, the the ⁓ hairdryer sucks. It's one of those really, excuse my language, it's one of those really old ones that's kind of like not not a lot of power. So I fished this out Paloma and it's a game changer. I don't know why it's not like the lead product. Okay, so here's what's different about it. I have PalomaContreras: Mm. Я Caroline Gidiere: I have like a balm thing that I use that's like WOW ⁓ the other guy that does ⁓ Kim hair. and it's like kind like a gummy paste, you know, that you that put on to try to tame my frizz. And I also have the Olaplex oil. Everybody does a hair oil, okay. Well both of these ⁓ don't only tame my frizz the ⁓ but PalomaContreras: Uh-huh. ⁓ huh. Caroline Gidiere: But it within like 30 minutes to an hour the frizz is back and my hair gets all greasy and gummy from it. It just it feels kind of weighted down and or either greasy or it like sticks together. I don't know. But this you can tell from how it feels on your hands even after you're done. So after you put it in your hair and Now is bad because it's so windy, like nothing's gonna tame my hair right now because the wind keeps blowing it apart. But it has done so well the whole time. And after you put it on your hair, it's almost like you don't I'm a fiend about washing my hands. So this says a lot. I don't even feel like I need to wash my hands. It's like there's nothing on my hair and it really PalomaContreras: ⁓ huh. ⁓ it's a so it's really light and not tacky? Caroline Gidiere: But it is tacky when it goes on your hair and it like calms my hair all the way down where I don't have this halo of frizz and it has kept it. I mean these are like PalomaContreras: Okay. Caroline Gidiere: extreme circumstances right right here with all this wind. But but the whole time I've been using this I'm I'm just crazy about I haven't haven't found a hair product that I think is different in a very in since they created hair oil. PalomaContreras: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. Well and I will say you are a very discerning person and it takes a lot to impress you when it comes to a product. Because I know that you are really good about researching and you you're loyal when you find something that you love, but you're somebody that like goes out and tries n different products i in search of the best the best thing. So that's a big endorsement. What is it called again? Chris McMillan. Styling Balm Okay, I'm gonna look for it. Caroline Gidiere: It does. Mm. It's Styling Bomb. okay, so here ⁓ a question I had for you. ⁓ I a call with a ⁓ with potential client, ⁓ okay? And asked me, ⁓ it gonna there was gonna be renovation involved ⁓ in project. ⁓ PalomaContreras: Okay. Mm-hmm. Caroline Gidiere: Not a lot, but there was gonna be renovation. And you know, there was to have to be some demo and some reconstruction. It was going to touch on a lot of trades. ⁓ Okay. ⁓ And asked I would be hiring the contractors. ⁓ 'Cause she wanted her decorator to be the one who hired and managed the contractors. ⁓ ⁓ said, know, I'm not a general contractor, ⁓ but I work with ⁓ and direct all the ⁓ PalomaContreras: Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: you know, which we often do, interface with all the trades on how how the tile is laid out, how the cabinets are finished and done, select the hardware, where all the wires are pulled and all that kind of stuff. But we never hire anyone. How about you? PalomaContreras: Right. Correct. No, we're the same. I think it's a matter of that is not our wheelhouse and I don't want the liability. And so what I typically do is I'm happy to recommend two or three contractors that we've worked with on different projects that we would feel comfortable with working feel comfortable working with again that you know we would stand behind their work product and feel like it would be a good fit. So we'll give the client the names and then it's up to them to interview. If they want us to be part of the process, totally fine. And if we if they want Caroline Gidiere: Right. PalomaContreras: I mean, I feel like it has to be their decision and the transaction needs to happen directly between those parties. I don't need to be the middleman for that. And as you said, we're still managing the project in many ways. We're interfacing with the general contractor, their subs on a daily basis in most cases. We're preparing all of the finish and material schedules, providing all of the guidance on layouts and you know. Caroline Gidiere: Absolutely. PalomaContreras: cabinetry and all the different details so they still get that but I hesitate and don't really know. I'm trying to think of anybody that I know in my forum or any other designers that I've talked to over the years that would do that. And I I would say you'd be really you wouldn't find anybody. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. I don't I don't even yeah, I don't even know an architect that would hire the contractor. I ⁓ PalomaContreras: Definitely not. Caroline Gidiere: I just, you know, I think if you put your insurance company on notice that you are going to be hiring the contract, you would have to like register as a general contractor, I would think, in order to be able to do that. And I I'll tell you another thing, so out of obviously can't recommend contractors. And as I explained to her, ⁓ these are people that are be in your house ⁓ that ⁓ PalomaContreras: Yeah. No, it I would think so too. Right. Caroline Gidiere: are you're gonna be paying money to and who are gonna require money up front that they're gonna hold and you know they're gonna ask for draws and then they've got to pay contractors. Like you need to be very comfortable with their financial situation, their you know like do all of your research. These these people will be in your house and I'm a you know across the country I can interface PalomaContreras: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: them ⁓ know we had a client who had a contractor that got into financial trouble ⁓ and paid for things like particularly as project was closing out like for the roof and for this and for that the contractor took the money ⁓ and paid other people but not those people ⁓ he was in the hole ⁓ and you ⁓ like ⁓ if I had that contractor now on hook for all that PalomaContreras: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Exactly. And that's not rare. That happens more than you would think. Caroline Gidiere: that money and there was an there was another I know, right? There was another decorator in Birmingham that had done a house and then, you know, a sconce caught on fire. ⁓ don't wanna touch electricity ⁓ as it ⁓ like PalomaContreras: Mm. No. Well and I I will say this. I don't know what the real benefit would be for the client, for the for the designer to be the one Hiring the contractor because you're still managing the day-to-day, the communications, the finishes, like all the design details and work. And I would even go so far as to say I feel like it would be detrimental to the client because in most cases we have great working relationships with our contractors, and you know, we work well together and it's a respectful relationship. But let's say something did go wrong. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. PalomaContreras: Y they want you to be their advocate. So then the designer is advocating for the client. However, if you are the one who's hired them and now it's in your best financial interest that, you know, you've got to resolve this in a way that makes sense for you too, then it just changes the nature of the dynamic and I don't think it's to the benefit of the client and certainly not of the designer. Caroline Gidiere: Right. And I just you know, I think I think you're in a whole you're also that's gonna change your workers' compensation. PalomaContreras: ⁓ yeah. Caroline Gidiere: Liability that's gonna change your general liability, like everything about it just didn't make any sense to me. And also being out of you can recommend contractors that are out of town that you've worked with before and say, I've had a great relationship working with, you know, Dan in Nashville or Rob in, you know, Chicago, or you know, here's their name. Call ⁓ check ⁓ out, see what you think. I mean, I don't know you can I can give you the name of my clients and you can call and PalomaContreras: Mm-hmm. Right. Caroline Gidiere: And chit-chat with them about their experience in finishing out the project and the billing and all that kind of stuff. But even recommending because people will just take that ⁓ and with it. then, you know what I'm saying? I get it's the lawyer in me that's like, well, ⁓ you know, ⁓ that assure yourself, rely my recommendation. ⁓ PalomaContreras: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I'll give you my recommendation but ultimately it's your decision as to what feels best for you. Caroline Gidiere: Yes, yes. And my my my engagement with these people is different than yours is going to be. So even though mine might have been positive, their relationship with the client might have been something different. ⁓ PalomaContreras: Right. were you guys able to come to an agreement when you explained all of that? Or was that ⁓ in end a red flag where maybe this isn't gonna be a fit? Yeah. ⁓ Caroline Gidiere: No. That's that's that was the end of it. That was the end of it. And I thought, you know, that's just an indicator ⁓ that we be to get on the same page ⁓ with expectations down the line either. ⁓ PalomaContreras: Right, yeah, that makes that's very true. So what are some other we got a listener question, what are some red flags that would make you decline or walk away from a potential project? Caroline Gidiere: It's hard for me to say Paloma. I guess my years of practicing law is just inform so much of that for me. And I'm also in a kind of a different position in that this is a second career for me. and so I'm really I really kinda only wanna take or bring into my life Projects that are where we, you know, are simpatico. luckily not in a situation where I have to consider taking on projects don't feel right in my You know what I'm saying? Like we were talking about, I mean ⁓ I can luckily ⁓ and usually if you sleep on it, I I'm trying think of to answer your particular. PalomaContreras: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: question. ⁓ I've had things that should have been red flags that worked out and I've had clients that everything seemed perfect only for the problems to have been embedded to reveal themselves later. So you know like for instance my client Jess who was on our trip when she called she didn't have wouldn't say what her budget was and she said she was going to be out of the country PalomaContreras: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ for the next ten months that she had a wedding in twelve months at her house and that her mother was also going to be helping with the design. Those four things should have been like a a hell no. PalomaContreras: Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I mean on paper you would that would give you pause. You'd be like, This sounds crazy. I'd I I don't know what the expectation is in terms of the budget, the timeline is crazy, what's the mother gonna be like? Thankfully for you, I've met your clients, they are fabulous and it worked out so well, but you j y you never know. Caroline Gidiere: They just something yeah, something about just talking to Jessica, I thought, yeah, okay. Cause she seems so great, as you can tell. I mean she just talking to her, she seems really wonderful. So, you know, sometimes you just you just have to listen to the you know, the little voice in the back of your head that says, either this is gonna be fine or ⁓ uh-oh, ⁓ PalomaContreras: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. I mean, I think so much of it is subtle and much like with dating, I mean not that I've done a lot of dating in my life because I've been with my husband ⁓ more my entire adult life basically. ⁓ but from what I hear, it's kind of like dating in the sense that people present their best version of themselves, they put their best foot forward in the beginning, and then sometimes, you know, certain traits or expectations will reveal themselves down the line. So you don't always know. I think it's easy to Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. PalomaContreras: tell if somebody has a red flag and they fly it in front of you at the initial meeting, ⁓ you know, things like that might be there's just we're not on the same page in terms of the expectation for budget or timeline. It's just not realistic. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah. PalomaContreras: one way or the other until we know we're not the right fit. That's an easy one and very black and white for people to understand. Oftentimes it's I would say it is it's just a matter of fit, you know, like do I enjoy this person or to your point with Jess, you just got a good vibe from her and it felt like, you know, talking to her you would enjoy working with her, you guys would get along, it would be a fruitful relationship. ⁓ and I think sometimes you can feel if things don't click, but Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. PalomaContreras: A lot of times it may all go right in the beginning and then down the line people can get funny and so you just you never know and I think your point about really listening to your instincts, trusting your instincts is important. Caroline Gidiere: Mhm. I agree. just ⁓ I don't know that any one thing I could identify that would be ⁓ would be a red flag, but there ⁓ often red flags. Just like this, like, know, like with the contractor ⁓ situation. ⁓ PalomaContreras: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's your process. And so I was just thinking, that's one other thing that has stuck out for us that I feel like whether it happened at the onset of the project or later on, in hindsight, it's definitely a red flag. And if it were to present itself at the beginning, I would probably not take on a project if a client redlined a ton of my contract, ⁓ my agreement, that's a red flag. And then secondly, if they really pushed us to work outside of our standard process, that process is in place because we've done at this point, you know, dozens, if not hundreds of homes, well not hundreds, but a lot of homes. We've done a lot of projects, a lot of homes in the last ⁓ however many years. And we understand which process is gonna get us to the finish line. Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ PalomaContreras: the fewest hiccups and that works for us. It's trusted, it works, it's tested. ⁓ So when somebody wants us to work outside of that, Because it makes more sense for them, that really makes me uncomfortable. And over the years, I feel like I've I've given in to that to make the client happy in the moment. But in the end, it was not the correct thing to do because that process exists for a reason. You know, you end up reminding yourself when it's like, okay, well, we did it this way for this person, and now we have this other issue to deal with. So things like that, I feel like, are definitely big red flags to look out for. If somebody's pushing you. Caroline Gidiere: Sure. A hundred. Absolutely. PalomaContreras: to work outside of your normal way of operating by asking you to hire the contractor, redlining your contracts, you know, asking you to try a different process. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, you know I have a friend who's a decorator who said ⁓ to me early on ⁓ won't work for attorneys ⁓ having been one I was like really ⁓ then I had an attorney as a client who came in with the red line on the contract ⁓ was like no no no no ⁓ ⁓ is not ⁓ this is not litigation this is not a negotiable contract. It's it's either you signed it or we don't do business and that's just kind of the way it's gonna be because ⁓ has to be this way for our PalomaContreras: Hm. Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: process to work over here. So and it take it takes a lot of confidence to to stand your ground on those things. PalomaContreras: Yeah. And I mean not to Absolutely, because again, you want you're in a client facing business. Our instinct and our desire is to please our clients, to you know, make them happy, to ensure they have a positive experience. And so when somebody comes to you and they're like, Here you go, here are my edits and my suggestions, I think the impetus is to want to ⁓ find a common ground, but you're right, you have to stick with it. I will say, not to give attorneys a bad name, some of my very best clients have been Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. PalomaContreras: ⁓ attorneys over the years. And what's interesting is the ones who have the most successful law careers are the ones who just signed the contract probably without even reading it. Like and were so unfussy and so amazing because they were busy with demanding careers. ⁓ But I think I've probably had Two people, and this was a long time ago, who were more at the associate level at that point, who were redlining my contracts, but the partners at the big MA firms did not. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, yeah. I mean and I also, the longer that do this, more houses you've done, the more the water that's under the bridge, ⁓ the the more I guess something like that when wants to edit your contract ⁓ says, ⁓ this person's gonna be trouble ⁓ PalomaContreras: Mm-hmm. Caroline Gidiere: You know what I'm saying? Like, this is just the start. ⁓ and it's not I'm if you've had let's just say you've had, you know, you've done thirty or forty projects and everything's gone off Without a hitch worked through all the things, you have pleased clients ⁓ and then you somebody who comes in ⁓ and s ⁓ to change of that for you. ⁓ Then ⁓ maybe not red flag, maybe they're not right and you're not right and nobody's wrong. ⁓ It's just you're a right fit. ⁓ PalomaContreras: Mm-hmm. Right. Well yeah, I think it's it's start it sets a bad tone because you're starting out the relationship from a place of almost mistrust, you know, where they're like, I don't trust what you're proposing to me and I think I have a better way that's gonna be better for me. And the truth of the matter is like our particular agreement is written in a way that's very fair and equitable to both sides and it's meant to protect both parties. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. PalomaContreras: You know, and if anybody has a question or an issue, we're always happy to explain it and work through it and whatever, but you don't wanna start off on a contentious foot and it feels contentious to me to say, I don't like your contract, here's what we're gonna do. Caroline Gidiere: Absolutely. I Absolutely. I appreciate a welcome question. So a lot of a lot of times this is the first time that you'll have clients who have engaged a decorator or you know the ones that PalomaContreras: Mm. Caroline Gidiere: have signed move very quickly through this process. But for the ones that this is the first time that they've done like a whole house project where they're hiring a decorator, they do have questions because they really just don't understand what you're talking about in the contract. I'm and and I never have any trouble explaining all of that. And usually once you do it makes a lot of sense to them. But ⁓ but ⁓ we all know there are ⁓ ⁓ are those who are not looking to ⁓ PalomaContreras: Right. Right. Caroline Gidiere: They're just it you know, I don't know. They're the red flag people that you just think we're not a good fit and you move on. PalomaContreras: Yeah. I got it. Right. Yeah. Yep. Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ okay, well we are I think coming up on the end of our time and you and I are both on vacay so we should probably ⁓ call it a week. It is can you hear the the bells are chiming over at at at Notre Dame and ⁓ it is. It is seven PM and it's time for a cocktail. PalomaContreras: Yes, I know. It's probably cocktail hour where you are. Yeah. We are nine hours apart. It's 10 a.m. here, so enjoy your cocktail. Caroline Gidiere: I'm looking forward to it. I didn't have it out here because I was afraid I would freeze to death if I was st holding a w a cold, ⁓ beverage. ⁓ tomorrow ⁓ PalomaContreras: Well I hope the weather cooperates the rest of your time. Caroline Gidiere: Paloma tomorrow is supposed to be in the 40s when we get off. And I have a suit I have a suitcase full of sandals. I have like one sweater, which I'm wearing to death. I'm wearing it over my dresses I have on like two layers of Spanx ⁓ to myself warm because we're riding bikes everywhere, but it is cold, honey. It is cold out here. ⁓ So not I was counting. We were afraid of the heat. PalomaContreras: Stop! ⁓ my in June. ⁓ no. Mm-hmm. ⁓ to warm you up. Yeah. ⁓ man. Caroline Gidiere: wave and we've gotten just the opposite. But it looks like it's gonna be a beautiful evening. There's supposed to ⁓ be a meteor shower tonight in Paris, so looking forward to it. Yeah. PalomaContreras: Wonderful. You know, that's so funny. Randomly Margot asked me if there was gonna be a meteor today. If there was gonna be a shooting star. That's what she asked me, and I said, I don't think so, but maybe there will be over Paris. That's incredible. Yeah. Alright, well, thank you. Enjoy enjoy the rest of your time in Paris. Thanks you too. Bye. Adios. Caroline Gidiere: I think so, I think so. Okay, well give Margot a hug and a kiss from me and have a ⁓ yeah, have a great week. I'll see you next week.