TheInstallPodcast: All right, guys, that's a wrap for this week. Have a question or even a hot take? Send emails to questions at theinstalledpodcast.com or DM us on social Don't forget to subscribe, like, rate, review, and download. for listening. ⁓ We'll see you next week. Caroline Gidiere: Hey, Paloma. I'm doing good. I'm doing good. ⁓ I want to just say that I've listened to a couple of episodes and my voice could not get on my nerves any more than it does. And I don't know what this crazy high pitched Miss Frazelle from the Magic School Bus voice is that I've been using, but. Paloma Contreras: Hello, how are you? No! Caroline Gidiere: I really am committed and dedicated to bringing the tenor of my voice down. Paloma Contreras: Well, I think your voice is beautiful and people have had really nice feedback about how soft your sweet southern voice is. Caroline Gidiere: I don't know. don't know. I just, mean, I don't know what it is about the way that I say hi, Paloma, but I'm like, God, that's got to stop. That's got to, we got to change that. Here's a note. Don't do it that way. Anyway, how are you? Really? Paloma Contreras: Okay, Well, as you know, ⁓ we just got back. So we're recording on a Thursday. We just got back on Sunday from our big Chinoiserie trip to England, which we're going to dive into sooner than later. And ⁓ it has been a rough re-entry. I mean, guess we'll dive right into our high and low. My low is... I ended up getting food poisoning I think. What we've deduced is that four of us who were on the trip ended up getting sick and from the timeline and when we were together, the thing that makes the most sense is that we would have gotten sick from dinner on Friday night and then it appeared on Sunday. You are the outlier, thank goodness you got so lucky. Caroline Gidiere: I'm the outlier on that. I... I... No. But I don't think it could be food poisoning. Paloma Contreras: You don't think so? You think it's a virus? Maybe it is because I still don't feel 100%. And so on Sunday morning I woke up, we had early flights. Caroline Bryan and his client Sandy left about an hour earlier than I did. So you guys left the hotel at like five in the morning. I left at 6.15. I woke up, my stomach was churning and I got sick and then got in the car. Caroline Gidiere: has to be. We had had a late night the night before. Paloma Contreras: We had a fun late night the night before. So initially my thought was I had too much fun. Caroline Gidiere: A drug for the record, drug, Brian and Paloma kicking and screaming out of Annabel's after midnight. It's like, guys, we've got to get on this plane in the morning. Paloma Contreras: Ha Which just goes to show I can be fun and while I'm an old lady who goes to sleep at like 8.30, 9 o'clock Monday through Friday when I'm home, if I'm out and I'm with my friends and I'm feeling it and I'm in the moment, I'm going to go out, I'm going to have fun, I'm going lean into it. Was it wise before such an early wake up call the next day? No. So my initial thought was that it was that. ⁓ But if I over indulge, I'm not getting sick the next day typically. It's more like Caroline Gidiere: You were having a ball. Yeah. Yeah. And you didn't have that much. Yeah. No. Paloma Contreras: let's have donuts for breakfast. No, I don't think it was that, but ⁓ who knows what it was. Because multiple people ended up getting sick, one of whom had gone home a day previously and doesn't drink, ⁓ it had to have been a virus. So anyhow, I spent my 10 hour flight home from England, throwing up into little bags, ⁓ which was the most miserable experience that I hope. Caroline Gidiere: I've done that and it's miserable. Paloma Contreras: Never to repeat, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Luckily the flight attendants were so sweet and they took pity on me and at one point I was like walking through the galley to get to the other side to the bathroom and one of them was there and she's like, how are you? Are you feeling any better? And I was making conversation with her and there was a male flight attendant with her and she turns to him very casually and is like, oh, she's our puker. Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Paloma Contreras: I started laughing and I was like, ⁓ so there's been chatter. And he, without skipping a beat goes, not yet, just wait till you get off. Which I appreciated because if you don't have humor in those moments, it just is so much harder to get through them. But they couldn't have been nicer and it wasn't like one flight attendant looking after me. There was a team of six of them, maybe five or six, and they all were concerned and coming to check on me and bringing me ice chips and ginger ale and whatever. ⁓ Caroline Gidiere: You Paloma Contreras: And I was telling my team about this yesterday and they were like, ⁓ my gosh, and there were people next to you and it hadn't dawned on me. Thankfully I was able to fly business. So I had my little pod and I could sort of like, you know, duck myself into the pod when I was getting sick and everyone around me had headphones on. So I think I was as discreet as I could be. I really made an effort to be the most demure and considerate pukeer there could be on a flight. But I just thought, ⁓ my God, if I had been in economy, Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Paloma Contreras: with people next to me, that would have been another level. Caroline Gidiere: Paloma. This is a story for another day, but that was my experience on a Southwest flight. There were two people next to me. ⁓ also, it was right at that moment where there was an Ebola virus scare. The whole plane knew that I was throwing up uncontrollably. ⁓ But ⁓ I survived. Paloma Contreras: What? ⁓ no. ⁓ no, so people thought you were like patient zero. ⁓ no. Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: You know, but it was miserable. Miserable? Paloma Contreras: I mean, I can't think of many worse things than that. So of course I get home. So it's not only throwing up on a flight. It's a 10 hour flight. It's a transatlantic flight. So I came home completely depleted, like went straight to bed, unfortunately, hoping to spend some part of Mother's Day with my family, but went to bed. And it's taken me a minute to recover. I have been back to work since Tuesday and... Caroline Gidiere: Mmm. Mmm! Paloma Contreras: I'm eating again and haven't been sick for several days, but I'm not feeling 100%. Like I still feel a little, little queasy, a little off. ⁓ So I think you might be right. Maybe it was just a virus that we somehow caught. Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. think the incubation period is a little long for food poisoning because it was Friday night that we had this meal together. I didn't really get sick, although I felt cruddy really bad on Monday. And I don't know if that was jet lag. You know, it could have been. I mean, I really was exceedingly low energy and didn't feel like eating. because we ate on Friday night and nobody really started getting sick until Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Caroline Gidiere: Sunday, usually food poisoning is like four to six hours. feel like, you know, it'll hit. Yeah. Yeah. So I feel like. Paloma Contreras: Right, yeah, it's usually pretty immediate. I did read that it can be longer, but who knows? It could have been so many different things. It was not fun, I will say that. So that was my definite low of the week. ⁓ I thought it was gonna be rough enough just going from touring these beautiful places and spending our afternoons walking through the most beautiful gardens you've ever seen and having tea with my dear friends to, you Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Yeah. the year, let's hope. gardens. Yeah. Paloma Contreras: being back in front of my computer all day that that would be my referee entry, but it was something I wasn't expecting. ⁓ My high would just be reflecting on the experience that we had to be able to share something like that. mean, I was at school for our last family chapel this morning and several of the moms were asking me about the trip because they'd been following along on Instagram. ⁓ it was truly a once in a lifetime trip. Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm, mm, amazing. Paloma Contreras: really had the opportunity to see behind the curtain in some of the most beautiful places that aren't typically open to the public. But for me, the most special thing is having shared it with you and with Mark and Brian and having dear friends along with me, but also making new friends. think that's the shared experience. The shared experience of it all is I think what was the most special. Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Paloma Contreras: meeting our new friend Brendan from Australia who I know we'll keep in touch with. He was lovely and we became fast friends. ⁓ Your clients, Jess and Steph were so wonderful and fun and fabulous and delightful. ⁓ Brian's client Sandy also just a love, like such a sweet, dear, amazing woman, so kind and lovely. So all of those things are great, but then. Caroline Gidiere: Yum. Amazing. Such a sweet person. Paloma Contreras: the belly laughs and the inside jokes that we're gonna have forever now as a result, you know? I mean, there's so many things that can only happen as a result of sharing an experience like this. So that's my biggest takeaway and the high that I'm still on from our shared experiences. We have all of these cool moments to reflect on and hilarious stories to go along with. Caroline Gidiere: Sure. And you know, there's nothing like being in a place where decorum is expected to make your tickle box turnover, to make there be something that you should not be laughing at. And it is totally inappropriate to laugh. you really want to, particularly as us, we're professionals. don't, you know, we're not goofing off and want to do anything inappropriate. Paloma Contreras: Yes. Caroline Gidiere: But there were moments on that trip where something hit that just ⁓ got me so, like, I don't know, there's just such joy in laughter. Obviously, laughter, I guess, is joy or can be or what have you. But there were, I just haven't laughed like that. I haven't gotten tickled since I was like in church or in class when I was younger, when it was like, Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: You're going to get in trouble. The stakes are really high with this laugh, and so you better put it out. But it was really so much fun. Paloma Contreras: Right. How has your reentry been getting back settled at home? Caroline Gidiere: It is been, I've had a tough, I've had a tough go of it. I mean, Monday was tough because I guess it was jet lag or maybe I got a tiny little bit of this virus that everybody else did, not, just enough to make me feel bad, but not enough to really totally slow me down. So I came into work, but I had a tough time getting to the top of the stuff. Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Caroline Gidiere: anyway, ⁓ I had to ⁓ leave early for ⁓ an out of town site visit on ⁓ with a ⁓ three hour drive up and back and ⁓ two different meetings, two different clients. ⁓ That was a really long day. But luckily when I woke up on a Tuesday morning, I felt like a million dollars. But my bad week this week is not all that. It's that I went to get my eyes checked. I am blind. I'm basically blind. I'm like, I wear contacts. Honey, you don't want to see me in glasses. My glasses are literally Coke bottles. And I just have to say. Paloma Contreras: Oh no, do you not wear, you wear contacts, Uh huh. Caroline Gidiere: I just have to say, I'm so thankful to live in this day and age because of my teeth when I was like growing up where these gnarly, I had teeth coming in all over my mouth is not big enough for all the teeth that I had, big teeth that I had. I have the worst eyes with these big Coca bottles. I've often laughed that like on the prairie. in a different, if I lived in the 1800s, they would have been like, no, you're good. You stay here. We're going to keep on moving, but you, you'll be fine. Just hang back because I left at home to like take care of my parents with Coke bottle and these Coke bottle glasses and gnarly teeth. I leave my glasses in the bed. Stephen was like, what? Cause you mangle them. You lay on top of them. It's like if I put them, Paloma Contreras: Haha. Caroline Gidiere: on the bedside table and they get knocked off, then I literally have to lay flat on the floor and do an airplane to try to find them. I cannot see them. I'm so blind. So I have to go to a specialist, get my eyes checked every year just to make sure I'm not having retinal separation, which everything is great. mean, my eyes are really healthy and all that kind of stuff outside of being very ovate. ⁓ Like everybody else, I have to get my eyes dilated, which is no big deal. This has been going on since I was in fourth grade. But this year, for the first time, they said, hey, ⁓ we have the reversal drops now. So you're welcome to get those. ⁓ So you don't have to deal with it. I don't. hadn't either. And the nurse was like, be sure and ask the doctor to give them to you. But she was like, you should know. ⁓ Paloma Contreras: I've never heard of those. Caroline Gidiere: One person said that their eyes got really red and another person said it gave them a headache. But outside of that, nobody's had any complaints. Okay, so what happens? My eyes got really red. I had a splitting headache for, I still have a headache from it. Still have a headache. Paloma Contreras: Gosh. Caroline Gidiere: I know it'll eventually like go away, but ⁓ my good week ⁓ is ⁓ coming up. we just got ⁓ the pool our club is opening weekend. I'm such a ⁓ sun worshiper. think that's a difference. ⁓ Honey. With ⁓ a, ⁓ with a, a I wear a bikini, but with a sarong. Paloma Contreras: Ooh, fun. Caroline's gonna put her bikini on. Caroline Gidiere: And I'll wear a shirt in, I wouldn't walk around. yeah, honey, ⁓ I love, you know, I don't know if you've seen that episode of Diary of a CEO, but there was some, it's a podcast, but you know, it's on YouTube. ⁓ But ⁓ Sun is like magic. I don't know if you know that. Paloma Contreras: I don't even know this show. ⁓ no, clearly I don't know. Yeah. No, you've told me, yeah, like for so long we were taught to fear the sun and to stay out of the sun and clearly, the empyreus over here has stayed out of the sun. Caroline Gidiere: Like it's the worst thing in the world to stay. Yeah. mean, you need some, ⁓ you need to stay out of the sun when you start to feel your sun skin burn, right? And he were Andrew Huberman has talked about this too, but yeah, like put on a shirt, put on a hat. Don't put on. Well, everybody should do whatever they want to do. This is not medical advice, but what I have gleaned from these shows is that Paloma Contreras: Mm. Yeah, Fabian links him. Caroline Gidiere: it is better than putting these chemicals on your skin to get, but you need like the worst thing as far as like these Scandinavian women that they study for over a decade, like staying out of the sun is equal to smoking as far as health risk. I mean, like the sun, the way your body responds to sunlight does so many positive things to Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Mmm. Wow. Well, so many people are vitamin D deficient, aren't they? Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: Exactly. And all sorts of other things. It just makes a huge difference also in your outlook in life. And I really do love to be in the sun. My skin can take more sun than probably yours can. And maybe that's why I enjoy it more. But I'm sensitive to it aging it. I mean, just the warmth on my skin feels so good. Paloma Contreras: Yeah, I do love that. Caroline Gidiere: I also find it really relaxing when I get stressed. working on things. I love to kind of like the Japanese baths, lay in hot sun until it gets really hot and then hop in a cold pool and then get out and totally, you know, wet and cold and then lay in the sun until I get warmed up and dried out. And then, and then I'm done. But anyway, so that's coming up this week. Also, I will say, we, just a Botox update. Today's the day. Yeah, I'm going today after we're finished here. And I think it's been since early January. So I'm like, Paloma Contreras: You're going today or did you go? Okay. ⁓ you went a long time. Okay. Caroline Gidiere: I've gone a long time. So I think from this podcast, I should be able to tell what the differences are in my face. Paloma Contreras: Yeah, no, I mean, we have these close ups of us now on video every week. So I think you'll definitely be able to tell I'm going next week, I think, and I haven't been since February, which is, yeah. Caroline Gidiere: honey. Yeah, so you're about the same. A little bit different, anyway, yeah, I didn't realize it well and I had to cancel and then I couldn't get back in. And then we had our trip. I was gone for two weeks, you know, just kept getting pushed out. Paloma Contreras: Right. You know what's been crazy about the timing? I don't know. I'm sure you felt this way. So we were essentially gone the first two weeks of May and now we're back and I'm like, it's the end of the school year and I've got to do X, Y and Z. There's this presentation. There's this, there's that. Margot has a summer birthday so I've got to take cupcakes to the class one day next week because her last day of school, by the time this airs, school will have ended but it's next Friday. So the last Friday before... ⁓ Memorial Day. I'm not sure if you guys go a little bit later in Birmingham Caroline Gidiere: Mm-mm. No, it cuts off. has finished school, I think, like the 22nd of May, like next week. This is her last week of classes. She has exams next week. And yeah, I said the same thing to Lou yesterday evening. I was like, we just got back from Switzerland, I feel like, and now 10th grade is over and you're going to camp. She was like, I feel the same way. ⁓ Paloma Contreras: Yeah, okay, earlier than Margo. Mm-hmm. Caroline Gidiere: It's just, it's crazy. It was a perfect time to be there because the weather was just absolutely perfect. But it's a hard time to be ⁓ getting behind on everything because everything's like closing up shop and everything needs to be done before people start moving into their summer schedules. Paloma Contreras: It was perfect. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, what do you guys have planned for the summer? I can't believe it's nearly here. Caroline Gidiere: I know, I couldn't be more excited. Last year I traveled with my book tour ⁓ incessantly. that ⁓ was, I enjoy people and meeting people and doing all of that stuff, but it wasn't inspiring in the way that getting away and just relaxing is. I think that's kind of obvious. Yeah, it is work, but it's... Paloma Contreras: Right. Sure, it's work, yeah, it's work. You're traveling and you're doing fun things and people are celebrating you and showing up for you, which is lovely and wonderful and you're grateful, but it's not the same as being away on a trip with your family. It's work, you're putting it on. You're on and you have to perform and show up and do all the things. It's not as fun as people imagine. Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's right. It is. Yes, that's right. You enjoy it, you sign up for it. ⁓ And any one event by itself is fantastic. But when you kind of over commit, ⁓ and I think you're probably the same as me, and I think maybe Mark does the same thing, like after a while it takes a toll physically. Like you just kind of get exhausted from the culmination of it all, just collective. Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Right. Caroline Gidiere: built up fatigue, ⁓ which I've kind of been trying to reconstitute myself this past spring, even though I've had travel, but traveling with my family or doing this trip is very inspiring and relaxing. If I can just have a moment to recover from jet lag when I get back, I actually do feel energized, like really, really energized. And ⁓ I haven't had that in so long because Paloma Contreras: Right, yeah. Caroline Gidiere: I was doing all that last year. didn't take any other real vacations because I was just gone too much. So I've had Switzerland. We just did the UK. And I'm leaving in June, early June, for ⁓ Rome and Paris while my daughter will be in camp for three weeks. my son has job for the summer. And this is kind of the first time this is really happened. Stephen was like, where are we going? Let's go do something. I'm so excited. He and I haven't really taken any vacations, just the two of us, since we had Bud. And when he was a baby, my mom said, because we were going to, I was trying to figure out what to do with him while we were going to go on a vacation. And she was like, honey, just take him with you. She was like, these little. brains, they're like sponges. They just soak it all up. She was like, just the amount of you are expanding his brain, just the sense and the airport and the people and the movement and, you know, just all of it is good for them to learn and to learn how to travel and all that kind of stuff. She was like, don't leave him at home. He'll just be boring milk toast. You need to throw him in a stroller and take him with you. which we have done with our children. We have taken them everywhere that we have gone, which has been great, but I've forgotten how to be on a vacation with my husband. And I'm so excited. I can't, I just don't even know what to think. We get to go to restaurants that don't serve chicken fingers and pizza, which I know you've asked me before and people have been like, what are your favorite restaurants in Paris? And it's like, well, Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Sure. So exciting. Mm-hmm Caroline Gidiere: There was a pizza place like four businesses down and that was really great. And there was one down in this little ruelle that served really great chicken nuggets. Paloma Contreras: Ha ha ha ha. Caroline Gidiere: But anyway, so that's we're doing. What are you doing? ⁓ Paloma Contreras: ⁓ Well, I don't have too much travel plans from a personal perspective. We're going on a quick trip to Mexico the second week of June, ⁓ back to Cabo. So not exciting. We're in our boring travel era where beach vacations are easy with Margot. And it was super last minute. Her school does a summer camp, so she'll go to day camp at her school for the month of June. But that second week of June, it's Caroline Gidiere: Fun, where? ⁓ yeah, okay. Paloma Contreras: Vacation Bible school for the church that's affiliated with our school and it's just very big and it's a lot ⁓ So we just figured we would take a quick trip somewhere then so that's what we're doing and then ⁓ she's in camp the whole summer basically different camps and I'll be working. I'm going to Fredericksburg to install a project in the hill country here in Texas in June and Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Paloma Contreras: Palm Beach at the beginning of June to visit a client, to have got a little bit of work travel planned and then ⁓ have some stuff later in the summer where I've got to kind of stay close to home for a bit. So it's not the most exciting season ahead, but I'm looking forward to hopefully a slower pace with school being out. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, yeah, I love that. We are also headed out to to California, Colorado to see my son. is doing the production behind the scenes production on, he is on the crew for Colorado Shakespeare Festival. And so we, and I are gonna go out there in July. Lou's gonna be ⁓ at a college program. ⁓ for the month of July. ⁓ so we are gonna take that time and go see my son and maybe take my dad and go out there and ⁓ yeah, and see, I think like Julia Caesar, I love a little Shakespeare, so I'm excited for that culture as well. Paloma Contreras: Yes, definitely. Well, continuing on an English theme, let's dig into our chinoiserie tour that we just came off of. mean, we are so inspired. I'm sure you feel the same way. It was such an inspiring time. We saw, gosh, how many houses was it? Not quite a dozen, ⁓ but a good handful. And each one was better than the last. I mean, they were all very different. One thing that was super fascinating to me also Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Not quite. Paloma Contreras: sort of meeting the families who run them and seeing the different features, I guess you could call, of each property. ⁓ I would love to dig into the business model of each one and how the houses and estates are run because I think they all generate revenue in very different ways. And that to me was fascinating. As an aside, I mean, we weren't there for that. Obviously it was in a business study, but ⁓ it was something that was very evident that I thought, Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. Paloma Contreras: was quite interesting, but the sheer beauty of the houses and the gardens was, I feel like I anticipated it to a degree, but it exceeded my expectations. How did you feel? Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ absolutely, absolutely. The houses were magnificent for sure. ⁓ And each with their own personality and I love their preservation of history. But for me, the real delight was the gardens. They were just so many of them. We didn't tour, several of them didn't have gardens of note that we didn't go through. But the ones that did, and you know, as Paloma knows, my clients and I made the whole bus late because we didn't realize the extraordinary gardens at Houghton Hall. hadn't done enough research. Paloma Contreras: Hmm. Caroline Gidiere: And when we turned the corner and started looking, it was just hard to pull ourselves away. So extraordinary. And I don't think that we got enough a heads up on, want to make sure you've got enough time to tour the walled garden, because it was beyond anything I've ever seen. And all I can think about is when are we headed back? Because I need to spend more time in that garden. And I want to do it in May. So maybe in combination with Paloma Contreras: I know. Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ like Chelsea Garden Show or something another year. Yeah. Paloma Contreras: That would be incredible. I mean, I would agree with you. I think the gardens were probably the most inspiring, the most beautiful. The castles, well, some were castles. The houses were stunning and beautiful and such capsules of history. And there were ⁓ wonderful furnishings and works of art and all kinds of things. But a lot of it feels heavy and of a specific. point in time, whereas the gardens, those are timeless and something that could have been beautiful then and was. Many of them were designed by Capability Brown and have been maintained in the same style for hundreds of years, which is incredible. ⁓ And they're just as gorgeous today. I I kept saying to Caroline, I finally said it the last time at the last house, I was like, ⁓ my gosh, these gardens are so beautiful. I'm so inspired to go home and paint them. And she was like, do you paint? No, I don't paint. Caroline Gidiere: Yes, for sure. You're right. you Paloma Contreras: But I would like to, and I would like to paint these gardens because they're just so ethereal and beautiful. Even the most formal ones are just breathtaking. There's ⁓ gosh, I don't even know the word for it. They're just beautiful, but ethereal. There's an ethereality to them. Caroline Gidiere: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Paloma Contreras: It felt like a dream, it really did. mean, those gardens were gorgeous. So I have the list of the houses we went to. We started at the Royal Pavilion in Brighton, and then we moved on to Longleit. We went to Bowood and Badminton in the same day. Houghton Hall, which was one of our favorites. We spent two nights at Beaver Castle. We also visited Burghley, which was beautiful and so expertly curated. ⁓ Grimsthorpe was another favorite, and Boughton. Caroline Gidiere: Also, yes, in between Grimsthorpe and Boughton, we went to Cottesbrooke. Paloma Contreras: Am I forgetting anything? How could forget Cottesbrooke? That was my very favorite one. So 10 total. 10 total. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, yeah, it was great. And I felt very, very much like Elizabeth Bennett in the afternoons, you know, walking the gardens after after lunch. Paloma Contreras: mean, was the, yes, that was the gist of our day. We would get started early in the morning. We'd usually board our bus by nine o'clock at the latest, travel anywhere between 45 minutes to three hours to our destination. We were on the bus a lot. And then we would arrive and either just depending on the time, go right into a tour or right into a luncheon. And the lunches were often hosted by the families who owned the houses, which was really special. And after lunch, we would typically be treated to tea and time to stroll through the gardens. mean, is there a better way to spend the day? It was so nice and just calm and peaceful. That time in the sunshine was wonderful. ⁓ The weather was perfect. It did not rain a drop the entire time we were there. We got really, really lucky. It was a little chilly one day. I think the castle we were in was also really, really cold. It was like known for being the coldest or something. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. It was great. The weather was perfect. We didn't have Yeah Yeah. Yeah. Paloma Contreras: ⁓ So that day felt cold, once we were out in the sunshine, it was gorgeous. Caroline Gidiere: Absolutely. And if anybody is wondering, ⁓ it was Ben Dong in San Francisco who did our tour. He did it a couple of years ago with other designers. ⁓ Yeah, exactly. Paloma Contreras: Yes. Right. Big shout out to Ben for putting it all together because it couldn't have been easy logistically to plan all of this. And he really made the whole experience special by granting us access to so many places and experiences that aren't typically open to the public. ⁓ yeah, as Caroline was saying, he's a designer in in San Francisco. I think he lives in Healdsburg now and he just has a personal passion for chinoiserie and started this tour a couple of years ago. ⁓ He actually took a bunch of big name designers that time and it ended up being covered by Veranda. So if anybody's interested, you could go back and Google Chinoiserie Tour Veranda and I'm sure you could read about it. ⁓ But it sounds like he is wanting to do the tour again. Like this is going to be an ongoing thing for him. So if you're interested, follow Ben and you you can stay tuned to whether this happens next year. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, yeah, I think it's been two years since he did it before, but I can imagine that the houses that we engaged in would be eager to hook into. think ⁓ as far as the financial side of this, I think the costs for all of these houses, these stately homes and treasure houses are enormous. I know how much it. Paloma Contreras: Yes. Caroline Gidiere: cost to put a new roof on my house. can only imagine what these guys can do. Paloma Contreras: Well, Hannah, we had dinner with Hannah Gurney from De Gournay our last night in London and she was saying, I mean, feel like she's hooked into all of that and, you know, obviously has, she's British and has friends who live in these houses and has her papers and has done amazing projects in these houses. She was saying it can cost up to 20 million pounds to put a roof, a new roof on some of these places, which I believe. Caroline Gidiere: Hmm? Yes. Yeah, ⁓ totally. And so if they open their house for 30 days a year, like the gardens maybe have to stay open, but if they open the house for 30 days a year, they get an enormous tax benefit. And so I think ⁓ somebody was saying that maybe these dinners and things that they do, as far as the money they get, is a wash. but the tax benefit is what they're all going for. I was like, Stephen would have us open our house for 30 days a year if he could get a huge tax write-off. So I get it. I totally get it. So anyway, but it was really great. Really trip of a lifetime. But as we were getting on the bus one day, Paloma Contreras: that makes sense. Hahaha Right. Truly. Caroline Gidiere: One of our friends asked the question, do you consider yourself high maintenance or low maintenance? ⁓ yeah, both of us felt like we were maybe high maintenance, but we were judged to be low maintenance. Paloma Contreras: Well, can I be medium maintenance? I feel like I'm low maintenance compared to other people. It's not just subjective thing. It's like beauty or I don't know, know, depends on who you ask. If you ask my mother-in-law or my sister-in-law, I'm ultra high maintenance. If you ask a Kardashian, I'm like super low maintenance, you know? Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah. Like there's There is not a member of my family who would even even you know, like Entertain a conversation that I'm not high maintenance but it's interesting because the people on our trip or our friends on our trip saw us both as low maintenance because we're like always on time and like don't complain and like Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Right. easy to be around, amenable to whatever the group wants, we're not divas. So I would say yeah, as a friend, I think we're both low maintenance. I don't think we're demanding, I don't think we're ultra needy. I think we're thoughtful and mature and kind and supportive and all of those things. ⁓ From a beauty perspective, mean, that's another story. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, mean, well, I do think that, you know, I mean, all of my lotions and potions and the sheer weight of my bags tells another story. Paloma Contreras: Yeah, yeah, I agree there. I mean, in my defense, I realize, I told you this the other day, I realize that I haven't colored my hair since last July, so I'll be doing that next week. ⁓ Caroline Gidiere: It's great, it's got such beautiful warm undertone. Paloma Contreras: Thank you, I get balayage and honestly I didn't start coloring my hair until I was well into my 30s. This is my natural hair color basically now. Like up here this is my natural hair color for sure. And then down here it's a little bit lighter where it's grown out. ⁓ And I'll get it colored probably like twice a year. I go a long time. And just let it look like really natural and beachy kind of like when I was a kid in the sun. ⁓ Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ Hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Paloma Contreras: but I hadn't realized how long it had been until we started doing the podcast and I was seeing myself on these videos and I was like, wow, my hair's gotten really dark. And I went back and looked at my calendar and I was like, whoa. So that's low maintenance, but ⁓ high maintenance, I guess. I get my nails done every two weeks and I get a facial every month and have my lotions and potions too. yeah. But you know, exactly, exactly. Caroline Gidiere: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Behind the scenes BTS. Yeah. Well, okay, so today, and last night, ⁓ we all of these Dior cruise show images were hitting social media. What do you think? Paloma Contreras: Yes, I loved it. mean, there were so many looks coming down that runway that I was like, I would wear that, I would wear that, I would wear that. I mean, there were tons of looks and they were all so beautiful and so easy, like very elegant but effortless. Caroline Gidiere: Gazillion. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yes, I agree. And I'm beginning to suss out a vibe that I think may end up typifying this decade. It's coming out slowly, yes. Paloma Contreras: ⁓ okay, because you talked about this on our last episode. If you guys haven't listened, go back and listen to our previous episode because Caroline talks about this a little bit, like what is defining this decade? What is the singular trend that's going to be remembered from this time? It sounds like you're onto something. What is it? Caroline Gidiere: I feel like it's a little bit, it's a 20s kind of jazz age situation. know, I mean, just like looking at Chanel's cruise collection and the other collections that they've done, we've got this drop waist, we have this flowiness, the, you know, I've said everything is like a nightgown with like satin with a little bit of lace on it. Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. Caroline Gidiere: And it really, ⁓ feel like when we look back at this time, that jazz agey sort of, and it's interesting too, the roaring 20s, I guess is what I'm thinking. ⁓ And are we in this kind of moment before a great decline again? You know what I'm saying? mean, like. Paloma Contreras: mean, it feels like we're in a great decline. much knock on wood, geez. I mean, you might be onto something. Caroline Gidiere: I mean, what is it about the human spirit that needs these flowy, sunny or ghosts with feathers or I don't know before in anticipation maybe, I don't know, who knows? yeah, I mean, and I'm really just looking at two designers to kind of figure this out. So obviously it's got a lot of room for... Paloma Contreras: Right, well, history repeats itself. Well, but I really, I mean, I do think that Matthew and ⁓ Jonathan are the ones really sort of blazing the path right now. They're the big standouts to me. We've talked about how most of the major fashion houses have new creative heads at the helm currently, and the two of them have really, I think, stood out in a significant way. And there is some sort of Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Paloma Contreras: symbiosis happening between the two houses where it feels like they're talking to the same woman. Caroline Gidiere: you Yeah, yeah, for sure. And it's, you know, across all ages. And then, you know, the other thing is, Dior really hasn't done it as much as Chanel, but we talked about on the bus and I'm really, really inspired and moved. And the other thing that I really see happening is in the importance of the older woman in culture. We haven't seen that before. And an older woman is really taking center stage for the first time. Yeah. Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Yes. which I love, it's time, yeah. I think that's a really powerful message to send. Caroline Gidiere: The cover of Vogue with two women in their 80s is just like never happened, like never would have happened before. And then, you know, I picked up the Financial Times in the UK and at the same time, you had Helen Mirren on the cover. And ⁓ there was an article about ⁓ women in their 50s. mean, just like everything is celebrating women over 50, which I think... ⁓ Paloma Contreras: 70s. Caroline Gidiere: is really, and we're having women over 50 come down the runway and they're pitching like, that's gotta be the women who have the most money to spend, like from 50 up. Paloma Contreras: ⁓ for sure. That has to be their biggest segment in terms of spending for their VICs, their very important clients. Caroline Gidiere: Hey. Okay, so what music is moving you right now? Paloma Contreras: Ooh, it's funny, I was talking to our new Australian friend, Brendan, about this. Randomly, we were at dinner at Beaver and we were talking about music. And I was like, do you know what song I've been listening to on repeat? And he blurted out the name of the song. I was like, yes, I've literally been listening to it on a loop. I was just listening to it while I was getting ready. Two artists, young artists that I really like individually and they collabed on a song that is my favorite right now. Olivia Dean and Sam Fender, ⁓ have a duet called ⁓ Rain Me In and it's just so good. They're both so talented. He's Irish, she's English. I'm sure, I mean, we haven't actually talked about Olivia Dean, but talk about somebody with amazing personal style, amazing stage presence. Not only is she a beautiful singer, I think her music appeals to a big swath of people and generations. ⁓ Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Yeah. They really are. Yeah, she's great. ⁓ yeah. For sure. Paloma Contreras: but she just performs with such joy. And I love the joy that I feel when I'm watching somebody perform or do what their great purpose is. And that can be watching her or Bruno Mars tearing it up on the stage or being at a vineyard and having a glass of wine, know, that first sip that you taste and hearing about the terroir and like everything that the vintner has put into it. Like just whatever the... Caroline Gidiere: Jones. Paloma Contreras: physical representation is of that person's passion and seeing that at the highest level makes me so happy to see and both Sam and Olivia are such incredible artists and They perform with such passion at such a high caliber. I just I'm enjoying listening to them so so much Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, for sure. Yeah. But I'm really excited Lou and I are planning a trip to go see Harry this summer. I mean, at the end of the summer at Madison Square Garden. And we were headed to see Post Malone and Jelly Roll at the end of the month, but ⁓ they canceled the show here in Birmingham. Yeah. They said they weren't ready. And, you know, I know, I don't know, maybe it wasn't sold out and they were like, Paloma Contreras: ⁓ fun. So fun. Mm-hmm. ⁓ they did? ⁓ I wonder why. Interesting. Caroline Gidiere: the hell we're coming to Birmingham if it's not sold out but I don't know like ⁓ hell no Paloma Contreras: That's surprising that it's not sold out. They're so popular. ⁓ I saw Post Malone years ago. I think it was right before the pandemic started. So it's been a while. He hadn't lost all that weight yet, but he's really good. Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm a huge fan and I love me some country music too. So we were excited for that, but canceled. we've got to head. Yeah, I can't wait to ⁓ do a weekend in New York. That's really fun. I'm looking forward to it. We'll do a whole family thing there. Paloma Contreras: Well, here you'll be awesome. Yeah, Okay, so ⁓ we've gotten some questions about technology ⁓ and design, so we thought we would approach and talk about a few of these. So ⁓ that keeps coming up and that I've been about with my forum and you hear designers talk about it, is Instagram over? Do you still find it inspiring? Does everything look? look the same now? Does it work for you? Does it convert for you the way that it once did? Caroline Gidiere: I see Instagram more as an obligation. It's not as in... Yeah. Paloma Contreras: That's how everybody I talk to feels. Like you have to do it, but we're in a field where it's a visual medium, it's a way to showcase our work, but people aren't deriving the fun or the inspiration from it that they once did. Caroline Gidiere: That's right. It either seems contrived to me, canned or Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Caroline Gidiere: Boring. mean, you know what I'm saying? Like it's just, ⁓ it's not, it's not, it just doesn't hit like it used to, you know? And. Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, how long has it been around now? Like a dozen years? Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, I feel like it was 2013, 2004, was it 2011 maybe? Maybe it was 2011 when I first got my account. I know I was on it when it first started, when it was just like, you didn't even know what you were doing and they had like these filters and that was like the big thing. Like, ooh, look at this, you can make it. Paloma Contreras: I don't remember. Right. Yeah. Caroline Gidiere: Anyway, yeah, it's been a minute. And I do find that it takes a lot of time and is distracting just like everybody else. Paloma Contreras: Yeah, I mean, like anything, feel like it's the consistency of posting, but, you know, some some weeks we'll get a lot of views and then the next week we're posting us consistently and the views are way down. The engagement's way down. So I don't know. I mean, it's anyone's guess at this point. That's where it can get discouraging or you're like, we're putting all this effort into it. What's what? Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Paloma Contreras: What are we getting out of it? What's the point? I mean, it is still a referral source. I think people still do find us on Instagram. ⁓ But I do miss the days when it was more spontaneous and more authentic. And actually, I was posting every day ⁓ from our trip. You know, each day that we'd visit a house, I think I posted the following day about that house. And I enjoyed that. That was fun because it was what was happening in the moment. Like, you in real time, it wasn't a portfolio image that we had Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Paloma Contreras: looked at and scheduled and fit into the grid a month in advance. Yeah, but you really like TikTok, don't you? Caroline Gidiere: Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I do. like TikTok because you know why? Because I learn things on TikTok. It keeps... Paloma Contreras: I need to use it more. don't open the app enough. So you got me on TikTok, I don't know, probably like six months ago, maybe longer. And I'm on it. And then every now and then I'll remember to go back and look at TikTok and it'll be like, Caroline sent you a message. It's like three weeks old. ⁓ So I'm not super active on that, but I do need to look at it more and sort of train the algorithm to show me things that I'm interested in. Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Sure. And it is very addictive. And I can get on the stem, there's a stem option. I just love it because, well, first off, also, I can get a lot of news that I wouldn't get otherwise because they're just clips, like an entire new story, and there's no limitation, like on the story. on Instagram, so like it might be 30 minutes long, but you get the whole thing. know what I'm saying? If you so choose to watch the whole thing, it's not just like a taste of it. Sometimes it is, but you can get the whole thing. And I've learned, you know, everything good that I know about like makeup, like blow drying my hair, like washing my dog. What is it? Whatever it is, everybody's putting all this. Paloma Contreras: Right. ⁓ interesting. Huh. Caroline Gidiere: information out there on TikTok. ⁓ That's more kind of tutorial ish seem seeming to me. And ⁓ and so I get really fascinated. And then also clips of the podcast that I listened to, because I listened to them. And then when you kind of see people or episodes that you missed and things like that. So I really prefer TikTok. Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Yeah, I need to get on there more. Do you use Pinterest? Okay. Caroline Gidiere: Not at all. My clients love to, you know, send me boards from Pinterest, but I don't, I did when Pinterest first started, but it's been, it's been more than a decade since I've paid it any attention. I'll go on there when I need something in particular, Paloma Contreras: Yeah. Really? ⁓ Okay. ⁓ How important do you think is for designer to have a website? Caroline Gidiere: I think it's probably more important to have great Instagram feed. Paloma Contreras: Yeah, I think people find you on Instagram and then if they're interested, they're going to follow up and look at your website as a way to see more of your portfolio or read about you or make contact. So it needs to look good and be streamlined and user friendly. But I think you're right. I don't think people are going to the website as the first point of contact. Caroline Gidiere: I don't think most of my clients, I mean, they might, yeah, it's a secondary stop. It's not a primary stop, yeah. Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. I agree with that. Yeah. And the million dollar question. know AI came up a lot on our trip for various reasons. I just kept hearing conversations about AI. ⁓ Do you think it could ever replace a designer? Caroline Gidiere: I don't think it can replace a designer. I think all designers should be using AI right now. Paloma Contreras: Yes, there are so many ways in which someone can utilize it as a tool. But I think if you're worried that AI can replace you as a full service interior designer, then you need to look inward at, you know, your operation and the services that you're offering and the way that you're offering them because AI can spit out a concept or an image and you have to take that with a grain of salt because it's not going to be entirely accurate and there may be some weird things happening somewhere. Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Paloma Contreras: It can give you ideas, but it's never going to do what designers offer, which I think is the most valuable. And that is the ideas that we can generate and also the service in terms of procurement and getting things to the finish line, solving problems, know, the customer service, like all of those things can't be achieved through AI just by prompting a tool, you know, like you still need somebody to execute. Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. That's right. That's right, somebody to execute and somebody with experience. know, like AI, I don't think can replicate experience with different fabrics and trims and upholstery and cut of fabric and weight of fabric. like, I had ⁓ the women in my office, I was about to say girls. Paloma Contreras: Right. Caroline Gidiere: women, young women in my office sit down and look with me at the video that I took at the walk through from Tuesday. And have been working on this floor plan. ⁓ walls are up on the house. Paloma Contreras: you Caroline Gidiere: And when we looked at it, it looks, it feels there's one or two rooms in particular. Most of them are fine, but it feels completely different in the space. And it was like, guys, that sofa on the right is not gonna work. And they're like, you're totally right. And like this table, situation centered table, we need to rethink all of this because 3D is different from 2D and Real life is just different from what's inside the computer's brain, you know? So there's no way that AI could ever replace it. And it cannot really truly put together a cohesive scheme for an entire house. It's just not. Paloma Contreras: Right. doesn't have the taste, experience or discernment to do what we do. Caroline Gidiere: That's all right. Could it put together a room? mean, I feel like the amount of information you're gonna have to put into it, you would be better off just trying to do it yourself. But can it adjust your floor plan? Like, could you put your floor plan in? I think a great way would be like, you know, show me two other options for this that would also accomplish X, you know, just to help. Paloma Contreras: Mm-hmm. Caroline Gidiere: You quickly look at things. ⁓ We are using it for quick ⁓ square footage calculations when we need it. just like it's a great tool, just like having a great calculator or whatever. it's, know, and to help ⁓ rewrite things, ⁓ to give them more polish, I think that's helpful, but it's no substitute for the real deal. Paloma Contreras: Yeah. I agree with you. Well, we have our listener question. ⁓ FK Redding and Mom Kapiloff sent in questions about mixing patterns. Francie writes, I can't for the life of me figure out how to mix patterns and colors in a room. While Tracy asks, is it better to do solids or patterns on your bed, drapes and chairs in your primary bedroom? Caroline Gidiere: You know, I don't know. think everybody, like, there's not a right and a wrong answer. you know, the that come out of design school, they don't teach anything like this. This is something that I think you either know innately, like what you like, you have a strong opinion, may or may not be good taste, yeah, but ⁓ like you ⁓ intuit ⁓ like this or this and... Paloma Contreras: It's intuitive. Yeah, and everybody, I I think you could ask this question to 10 different designers and they would each give you a different ⁓ answer depending on their personal aesthetic and taste. ⁓ I think an easy sort of formula or rule of thumb to give people when I'm asked this question is start with a hero fabric. Figure out the colors that you like or that you want to see in that room. How do you want them to make you feel? Is it gonna be a calm, soothing room? Is it? Caroline Gidiere: ⁓ I feel like... Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Paloma Contreras: you know, an energizing room, do you want bold colors, soft colors, figure that out and then find a hero fabric that you absolutely love. Generally, the hero is going to have a larger scale pattern on it more often than not. And then you can pair that, mix it with small scale patterns. ⁓ It can be a geometric, a stripe, but you want to have a little bit of a mix and a little bit of variance in terms of the scale and type of pattern. Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Paloma Contreras: on each piece, they should all have complimentary colors. But you don't want two things in a pattern that is too similar in scale because they'll often fight each other. They will combat each other rather than complimenting each other. So if you're having a hard time, if it doesn't feel intuitive to you, that is kind of a nice, easy, user-friendly formula that you can try with a variety of patterns. Start with the one you love. Caroline Gidiere: Mm-hmm. Paloma Contreras: bring in different patterns and see what looks best together. And then you'll know when you see it. Caroline Gidiere: I was taking these questions to be a mix between solids and patterns. Like how do you find the balance between those? Paloma Contreras: You could look at that too. Well, the second question for sure is it better to do solids or patterns on your bed drapes and chairs? Again, that's personal preference. You I think your larger pieces of upholstery I would probably again you can ask two different people I would say I Would probably do a solid on the bed, but you have a pattern bed in your room and it's fabulous You know, I have one hero fabric in my personal bedroom. I have ⁓ Les Touches on half tester canopy Caroline Gidiere: And then solids and colors, yeah. Paloma Contreras: and I have it on a couple of chairs and on some benches and then everything else is solid. So a pattern can work to great effect if you're choosing one and you're using it repeatedly on various things or you can also mix like you have, what is it, lilac and do you also have orange in your bedroom? No, that's your family room. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, orange is my family room. I have Decors Barbares Ete Moscovite on the ⁓ then I have Carolina Irving's, I can't remember the name of it. And then I have Porthault lilac sheets. So three strong patterns in there, but they're all different. And so I feel like they work. That's what I'm saying. Like, I feel like it's intuitive. There are people, like I know we have friends who have a... a formula and that is you put the solid on the sofa, you find a small ditzy fabric for the pillows and you put that, you know, ⁓ complimentary solid on the chairs and then you find your, you know, lead fabric and you put that on the drapery and the coordinating pillows and there's your formula. I mean, You could easily switch all that up. You could come up with a list of the different ones. It's just, I think you shouldn't be afraid. Paloma Contreras: hmm. Yeah. I mean, it's trial and error, you know, and ⁓ we've think we both have sounds like we have different approaches and we know a lot of people who do it even different than we do. ⁓ So maybe, you know, if that feels this advice feels confusing to you, maybe hone in on ⁓ some ⁓ from whose work really resonates with you and sort of study their work and what patterns are you seeing? Like what what formula are you seeing emerge? ⁓ Caroline Gidiere: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Paloma Contreras: time after time and maybe use that as your guideline if you really feel like I can't figure this out on my own. Caroline Gidiere: That's great advice. Take an image of a bedroom or whatever it is that you're working on that you really love and look at. And don't replicate that precisely, but look at where do they have solids? Where do they have large patterns? Where do they have small patterns? And then how do the colors relate between the large and the small pattern? Like, have they taken out a... you know, like a contrasting color out of the large pattern and put that on a whatever they put it, just study it, maybe even write that stuff down and then set about using that as a formula. And that will help you kind of contrive a room with a fabric that you and color palette that you like. Paloma Contreras: Yeah, that's a really good, really good exercise that anybody could achieve. Caroline Gidiere: Yeah, sure. Okay, well, we have run a little long, so I guess we should go. Paloma Contreras: Yes, well, we'll see you next week. So good to see you. Okay, bye. You too. Caroline Gidiere: Okay, sounds great. Okay, have a great week. Okay, bye.