speaker-0: Welcome to Creative Chapel, a podcast exploring the vast landscape of Christian artistry. Across denominations and disciplinary mediums, Creative Chapel is building a space where saints can gather and celebrate their walk with Christ with their God-given gifting, encouraging each other in their faith and their craft. Creative Chapel is the place for inspiration, curation, and revelation. Hello and welcome back to Creative Chapel. I'm your host, Chris Mack. And today I'm joined by Nick Detty, the vocalist of the awesome Metal Core band Wolves at the Gate. Nick, thanks for being on the show. Yeah.

speaker-1: Thanks for having me, dude.

speaker-0: You guys are a tour on a tour right now. You're in San Diego, traveling all about. you're touring with Demon Hunter and Bloodlines, which is a stacked, stacked so that's awesome. and for the tour so far, how how long have you guys been touring?

speaker-1: So we're on day eight. So we're about a week in now. Tour's been great, man. Tour's been a s you know, big blast. you know, we tore with the Bloodlines guys on our headliner that we did probably several months ago now, you know. But other than that, I mean, yeah, tour's been great.

speaker-0: Nice. Yeah, pretty early on here. Cameo appearance.

speaker-1: This is Mike. He's hi he's an Ohio boy too.

speaker-0: and so you guys have been rocking for a while now and you came into the band a little bit later. Well said the gate's been going ever since like two thousand eight-ish. and you came in a little bit later. You have a really cool story about how you how you joined the band. and so for those who might not know the band and your history, I'd love to get little bit of history on the band and how you entered.

speaker-1: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So the band started in two thousand eight with Steve and like our original guitar player, Jeremy. but and Ben, who is like who's still in the band, he's our bass player. that started when they were all in college at Cedarville University in Ohio. about two thousand eight. and then just over time, yeah, they started they started just kind of picking up a little bit here and there, created their first E P, We are the Ones. And come around to two thousand and eleven, is when the E P got picked up by Solid State, which is when we first got signed, and round around the same time is when I actually was playing with a local band, like the my my old band that I'd had for years. and we were actually opening up a show for Wolves and then mutual friends of ours in a band called Voshi Road. They were having their like last show, like it was their farewell show. So yeah, I I went up and I'd like it was kinda crazy 'cause I hadn't, you know, never heard of anybody share the gospel the way that Steve shares the gospel from stage and I was like pretty I was like your pretty typical hardcore kid back then, you know. So I was all about getting in the pit and doing all that. But like yeah, I was like stopped, you know, like in my track like I and I wanted to listen to what Steve had to say 'cause I gr I grew up in church, you know, relatively or, you know, before before I actually ever professed faith. back then, because I didn't really, you know, Lord hadn't opened my eyes until I was like 18 years old, you know, really, truthfully, you know. so yeah, why I went up to him to talk to him afterwards and they like, they were like, dude, you're the guy in the local band. Like you could you're the screamer, right? You know, so they were, you know, thankfully they were impressed with, you know, with my performance. But yeah, Steve and I just ended up connecting afterwards and then he let me know that like or their original vocalist Colin, he was getting ready to have his third kid. So and they had just got signed to Solace, like they hadn't announced it yet. So they were just like, Yeah, listen, Colin's not gonna be able to tour, like we're trying to find a replacement for him, kind of thing. Man, s fifteen years later, here we are. Yeah, the rest is the rest is history.

speaker-0: Thanks for being an early listener of the Creative Chapel podcast. As a new show, it means so much that you're here. Please like, subscribe, and download our episodes to keep the momentum going. And share it with a friend who could use encouragement in their creative journey. Alright, back to the show. Yeah, I know you you've shared that story in some other places and when I was researching for the show. And I think it's just a cool, kind of like Coincidence happenstance moment that led into a

speaker-1: Hundred percent.

speaker-0: a very cool career and trajectory. Yeah. and so from that place, you know, you mentioned kinda like how Steve shared the gospel and that was a first time hearing it in that way. Yeah. and that attracting you to the band. Was there a point in discussion of like you joining the band, of like kind of like seeing where you were at with faith and and getting a ground of like, Hey, this is what we do, this is what we're about, if you're about that, come aboard. If you're not about that, it might not be a good fit.

speaker-1: Yeah, I mean it it it's kinda crazy 'cause the conversation really didn't happen like that way. It was kind of more just organic where it was kind of more as we started to get to know each other more, he started to kind of figure out and like come you know, me telling him about how like, you know, I don't know if I really believe or not, like considering like I I mean I, you know, claim to have, you know, 'cause I grew up in church, but I didn't really like know where I stood, you know, at the time just because like I you know I had heard him preach it the way that he did, you know, I heard him I heard him explain, you know, like give the gospel in such a way that it just made me question, you know, what I believed and I think it was by the Lord's design too, like the way this happened too, because I was actually practicing our song like I was practicing our songs. 'cause I was practicing for a tryout and the Lord like came and he met me where I was and he broke me down and that's when I like accepted him into my heart. And I I You know, like I told Steve about that and he was stoked. He was I mean, you know, he was like he was like, Hey man, that's amazing. He's like, tell me about it, man. Like, you know, like let's talk. Like, you know, so Steve has been like, I mean, I'm for any of you out there that know the dynamic between Steve and I, like, Steve's like my older brother. You know, they all are, but Steve and I share a very like close working relationship and a very close like brotherhood, like two as well. Like he and I have he's he's genuinely seen me at my worst. you know, and and at my lowest. so I praise God every day that He's been in my life and that he's been the the person like shepherding me and like helping me through everything, especially as a young man. yeah, through everything between relationships and you know and trauma and and just family issues and all kinds of different stuff too. So yeah, that was never really part of the conversation, like just like a yay or nay. It was more I think Orchestrated just by what God was doing. Yeah.

speaker-0: That's awesome. It it something that I've come across in doing the show and talking to various people and and their backgrounds. And typically I go into a person's like testimony and then figure out how that is being expressed through their art. and something the the cool thing about Wolves at the Gate and what you guys do is that you are very evangelistic and faith forward. and you know, I think that's a line that some bands who are Christian kind of struggle with of like how much they lean into sharing the gospel. Is it like a fully blown out like altar call type moment or is it or is it more of like a subtle like Jesus is the way, let's rock kind of moment. and so in that though, I feel like for even the bands that might not want to express the gospel fully and give a huge moment to it or multiple moments to it, is still this ability that the art itself is ministry. and just as you were like rehearsing the lyrics and and practicing for this tryout, the the art itself was ministering to you. And so for that, I think it's just cool testimony of of that happening. and so kind of like touching on the scene a little bit and and other bands, you know, there's a lot of turnover in the metal core scene for like band starting, band stopping, reunion tours way later, and even within that reunion, like the Christian bands that could have started out as Christian kind of like either walk away from faith or or turn. but you guys have been like really consistent again since like two thousand eight and and when you joined, what was the year?

speaker-1: twenty eleven. Twenty eleven. Yeah.

speaker-0: Wolves of the Gate has just stayed so consistent as as a band, as artists, and as you know, being empowered by faith. and I was curious if there was any just kinda like secret to that success of what you do for staying close knit as a band, as artists committed to keeping going even when jobs and kids and and travel things ha happen.

speaker-1: Gets tough. Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah. And as well as like just moments of perseverance and faith as a band.

speaker-1: Yeah, I mean Thankfully, man, it's just it's kind of been it's just been a journey of that throughout just our whole career, you know, is just that like taking opportunities where we can that make sense for us, you know, that make f sense for us as a band. while knowing that we have to make, you know, those sacrifices at least at some point or, you know, eventually, you know, depending on what the opportunity you know, like a great opportunity like this one, like with Demon Hunter, like yeah, being on the road for three weeks is it's a it's a struggle. Yeah, like I mean, you we're a weekend and, you know, everything's obviously been going great. but you know, that definitely provides a a strain, you know, on our families and, you know, lives at home as well. So, thankfully like all of our families, you know, like are unified in the sense of like like they understand what's being done. Like they understand what like why we're out here, you know, not just from a career standpoint for you know, but from a ministry standpoint as well, like understanding like what the goal is and understanding that like we genuinely just want to love people through what we're doing and like sharing the message of Christ, you know, through through who we are, and through our performance. So yeah, thankfully that's never been you know, I'm sure there have been difficult conversations that have come up, you know, with any of us, you know, in our in our family life or anything like that. But thankfully there's always been the understanding. that you know, we know where we need to be and we know what we need to do. So

speaker-0: Yeah, and I think that's a a special calling for musicians. I mean like there are there are some musicians in the in today's world and the TikTok generation that, you know, they're able just to like produce music in their bedroom and call it good. And they're just a solo solo artist, and they don't even need to tour or do a show or anything. But I think especially for Metalcore scene, it's such a community based scene that people like wanna get out, they wanna get into the pit and moss around and d and dance and hang out. They want to connect like you guys have to meet and greet soon. so people want to connect.

speaker-1: Demon Hunter does. okay. Demon Hunter is like

speaker-0: and so what I love about Metalcore scene is that Christian artists I feel like are just as much respected by secular audiences as they respect other bands that don't claim faith.

speaker-1: It's definitely different nowadays than what it was probably f even just five or six years ago. But people do seem to be more receptive to anything faith based nowadays. You know, we just we just got done playing like like a small circuit of Danny Wemmer festivals, which you know, festivals like Sonic Temple or Louder Than Life or Ro Welcome to Rockville, that kind of thing. So like it it does, you know. So we share the gospel from like the two that we played. We played it welcome to rockville and then we also played incarceration. and yeah, normally, you know, that type of environment it just doesn't seem doesn't seem receptive to anything anything face ba faith based or, you know, anything that has to do with Jesus at all. But it seems that people are starting to res like at least respect the ideas like, hey you you know, if that's what you believe in, like that's what they want. You know, and obviously from our standpoint, like we're very convicted. by that, you know, so but it's it's really cool, man. I mean music music has a beautiful way of connecting people and faiths and, you know, walks of life just from all facets. And it's just a really it's a really cool experience to have with other people, you know, that you've never would have met otherwise.

speaker-0: Yeah, and I feel like even I think about before I was e even into metal core, like in middle school, I was I kinda just grew up typical like youth group kid. My dad was a youth pastor. so lots of like kinda your typical C C of audio adrenaline newsboy. But

speaker-1: No right. For sure.

speaker-0: I would walk around middle school and see these people with like under oath hoodies or August Prince Red. Yeah. and even at that time when these bands were a little bit earlier into their career, this would be like two thousand eight, two thousand seven. there was like the murmurs of them being Christian, and still just random kids who had no faith affiliation wearing these t-shirts and kind of saying that just randomly and being like, these are Christian band. I'm like, I've never heard of them. at the time. And so I still I'm sure on like the reception level when you guys are touring in the early days you might feel like there's a a wall between you and an audience.

speaker-1: There was a barrier of some sort, yeah. Just because like it I mean, I as you know as probably as well as everybody else, especially in like the metal and hardcore scenes, like there was this negative air around a lot of Christian metal bands just because of claiming to be Christian metal bands, because it became really corny and cheesy and like it just it became more of a unfortunately became more of a statement piece or like a fad rather than actually like professing of faith. They're actually like living what you were speaking. You know, and I think a lot of those bands too that w are even in those spaces too kind of realized, you know, that like people can sniff out authenticity. You know what I mean? And like whether or not you're being genuine. And and to your point about people like, you know, Christian bands walking away from the faith or people claiming to be Christian bands, I think maybe they just realized that, you know, that wasn't something that they stood for, you know, or that they they realized that it wasn't authentic for them to claim something that they didn't really believe in, you know. So they chose to, you know, they chose to be real. And honestly, I I honestly have more respect for that than anything. Like you just being real to who you are. And like if that's not something you believe in, then you know, we can agree to disagree, you know, but but at the same time, you know, it's just like you're getting the most authentic version of you. And like that's what that's what I would love. Like that's the kind of person I would love to get to know.

speaker-0: Yeah, and I think there's a there's an aspect of like there's a aspect of being disappointed when a band does decide like, hey, we're gonna do this. But again, that's more respectful than like, you know, what we see in the C C that's kinda like not even a believer and and still doing the Christian scene. and it's

speaker-1: It's pretty it's pretty bad. Yeah.

speaker-0: so in doing these festivals with bands that are not faith based, that's maybe a handful mix you're in the mix there. Sure. and you're coming across Not only audiences that aren't Christian, but potentially even bands that aren't Christian. what has been some testimonies from your guys' experience of doing that? I'd love to hear some stories of connecting with audiences, connecting with other bands, or even even kind of like negative experience that you guys have had too. do you have any like really inspiring or like hurtful stories that you remember?

speaker-1: Not I mean, thankfully not anything negative. I mean, we've always you know, if you know any of us in the band or if you know, you ever get to, you know, know us on any relative personal level, like we're all very easygoing and we're all just very friendly people. You know, so just even from a personable level, like we aim to want to get to know the other people, like on our tours or you know, like other bands that are hanging out or other people, you know, I d I do the merch for our band. So and I actually do that on purpose. That's not I've had some people joke with me like that I get stuck with that. You know, like that's that's my job. But no, I do I do that on purpose because like I like talking to people and I like actually connecting with fans on like a real level because I've had plenty of people come up to me that have said like, hey man, like I've never heard of y'all before, but you know, you guys like really like really moved me. Like your message was really great. It's like I'm a you know, I'm a big fan now, just solely just from our performance and just us being Like I said, authentic. Like just us being like who we are and playing the music that we love to play. you know, there's no there's no You know, there's no show there. You know what I mean? Like there's no like trying to go overboard into people please or do anything like that. It's just it's just us wanting to just be relatable, like because like, you know, a lot of the things that we've gone through, like, you know, it and that bleeds into like writing music, right? Like, you know, it's just like we you know, we talk about things within our walks of faith that like we've dealt with, you know. that are very similar to what everybody else has dealt with. You know, when we talk about some really, really deep and really real things, honestly. but yeah, thankfully I I mean I mean, you know, you have some of the typical tour experiences where, you know, like it's just like a crappy situation where it's just like you're the opener in the tour, you know, it's just like and it's a grind. It's a slog, you know what I mean? Like that kind of thing. I mean, but that's typical. That's gonna be any band, like, you know, at that level, you know, kind of thing.

speaker-0: I saw Fly Leaf up in Anaheim a couple of months ago and they had they had Holy Name open for them. Yeah. and I was stoked. Yeah, this they hardly ever do a show and

speaker-1: This is crazy. Yeah. Yeah, we did their we did their Philadelphia day. Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah. and like there were maybe like five people in the crowd that were like interested in holy name and I was like Musically

speaker-1: Like just now.

speaker-0: they probably just didn't know They're all there for showing up for fly. And which is like, you know, kind of a different sound and and genre there, but yeah, it was it was interesting.

speaker-1: But yeah, I mean it's I mean it's been this way for like I said for any band or any person, you know, it's just that like we love just having conversation and we love just being able to get to know different people because like you would not believe the way that, you know, you've been connected to that person, you know, through your music or through your tour experience. you know, and how somebody might really value that, you know, somebody might really look at that and it might mean a lot to them, like coming through that. So yeah, I mean the being Christian or being non-Christian has had no bearing. You know, a person is a person and you know it's like we're regardless of of that interaction, like we aim to build relationships with

speaker-0: Yeah. I think that's a good transition for this next question. In twenty twenty three you guys released an album called Lost in Translation, which was a an album of covers by other artists and I would say predominantly non Christian or non I guess, you know, maybe not vocally Christian, but you could see themes and elements in in their music.

speaker-1: I was gonna say one of is John Bellion and he's very like profound. Like he is he's very vocal about his faith. And he's

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: an amazing songwriter. So yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah, twenty one pilots in there too, another another Ohio

speaker-1: Yeah, another Ohio band. We we just love those boys, honestly. Like Josh and Tyler are just we've known them for a very long time. so and well obviously we love their music. So like it's just one of those we picked a song that we thought would be cool to would be cool to cover. Yeah. in doing the cover thing. Plus like we man, it's crazy to think about their journey, like Josh and Tyler. But yeah, so Yeah, I mean, that was like a record that we just put together of just like, you know, we wanted to change pace and we wanted to do something different and we thought like, well, what are songs that like we grew up on or that we loved listening to? You know, that were huge inspirations to us as musicians and how do we put like our flavor on that? Yeah.

speaker-0: And you guys do a great job, especially with heathens.

speaker-1: Appreciate that.

speaker-0: and so I think there's an interesting element there. you know, in Christian music there's this sacred versus secular divide of like what is a Christian song, what is Christian music, and and defining that as a genre and the genrification of Christianity. you know, I can being a a PK growing up that's like being pushed like only listen to Christian music. don't s go outside those boundaries. and so you guys do this album that's you know you're connecting with artists that are vocally about their faith but still very much in more secular scenes and have secular popularity along with some that aren't. so I'm curious of of your perspective into kind of like Christian versus secular and and dronification of Christianity. I don't know if you've meditate on that a whole lot or if you have thoughts on

speaker-1: I know I mean, I was gonna say I know Steve has a lot more. I mean, but this is a conversation like I think that we've all thought about too. Is that like, yeah, why choose why choose certain songs that may have messages of hope in them but you know, like aren't necessarily Christian. I think just i really most the majority of it was from a musical standpoint of just like picking songs that we knew we really loved. and that was like kind of like a tribute to those pe you know, to those bands. you know. Especially like bands Lincoln Park and Twenty One Pilots and stuff like that, you know. So, but I mean there there is something to be said about the way that like truth and hope is personified through a lot of what those artists are writing because, you know, they're speaking from a very real experience or they're speaking from a very emotional time in their life of when writing these songs that they are looking for answers and they're looking for something to like clank on to, right? Like you know, so like they're they're trying to find some sort of ground in everything that's happening. You know, breaking you know, breaking the habit being a big one. That's one of my favorite ones that we did.

speaker-0: Yeah, I think in in those kind of like youth group settings when kids are raised to kind of stay in the boundaries of crystal music. Yeah.

speaker-1: It's a it's like a it's like a thought provoker, you know what I mean? It's like it's like more so like how do you open the door to the conversation or how do you like, you know, f bridge the gap really per se.

speaker-0: Yeah, and I think you know, my my dad grew up in the age of like he was a hair metal rocker in the eighties doing shows in Detroit and then came to faith and and then the church was like you to b burn your records, burn your CDs, get rid of choice.

speaker-1: That's not it. Yeah.

speaker-0: and so, you know, that that's the man that I've been mostly influenced musically and creatively and and I think even even in creation of artists who like Tyler and Joseph's of of Twin One Pilot, you know, their their expression of their faith is more subtle than, you know, they're not I haven't come across video where they're like declaring the gospel. Right, for sure. In their music it's clear and it's in their lyricism.

speaker-1: But I think that's because it speaks that to me speaks volumes. Yeah. Like obviously like we feel compelled to share the gospel from stage anyway, because that's who we are. But you know, if you would listen like if you've ever listened to any of our music or any of our lyrics, like it's very, very clear, like, you know, of where we are as a band, you know, and I think a lot of bands do it that way because there's much more that can be said. Or there's much more that can be conveyed through emotional the emotional experience that music brings rather than like trying to just give people lip service, essentially.

speaker-0: I think that's a a great point that you touch on is the emotional connection of art. I think a lot of times when people enter into arts, whether it's music, whether it's film, whether it's you know, illustration even, there's this conviction of of portraying a sermon or like here's my theological outline for you know, a systematic systematic theology. Yeah. But they missed the emotional aspect that is instrumental to art. I feel like if you take out emotion from art, all you're left with is lecture.

speaker-1: a hundred percent.

speaker-0: And so I think that's something that you guys do very well. in your music it's both emotional, it's thought provoking and theologically interesting and gravitates one towards faith. and so I'd like to to dive into your recent album, Wasteland. On the music side of that, I'm curious of how your sound has evolved. I feel like in in listening to Wasteland, I noticed you guys playing with some new techniques and some new sounds that might be a little bit more distinctive to this record. and so I'd love to to know about h as you guys have grown as a band, what are some some new things that you brought up in this and experimented with and played with and and how you've grown as artists.

speaker-1: Well the biggest thing is like been like the experience of just like doing all of the pre production like on our own, you know, and that's just having that journey like together instead of doing like the traditional studio experience, you know, kind of thing. Like we've just been kind of doing everything on our own, for the past few records, you know, couple records now. which has honestly been the way to go and it's been way more freeing to like the creative process that we've been in because like It just allows us to really just express what we want to express, you know, how we want to express it, you know. And I think that's been the like I said, I think that's been the most rewarding to us creatively. yeah, I mean, it's always it's always about pushing the envelope of what's heavy too, right? Like we we try to go back and forth about, you know, song structure and about what's heavy, but I think Steve just also has like such a unique creative mind, you know, that just a lot of the guitar parts and a lot of the songs that he writes is just kind of just not something anybody of any of us have ever heard. So it's just something that that's unique in itself. but especially like lyric especially like sorry

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: especially like lyrically and like vocally, you know, it's been an experience as well because it's it's just been me and Steve in a room, you know, just figuring stuff out, you know, or just like talking or going through like some of the emotions that I'm feeling or that he's feeling or like really learning how like how do we convey that to people, you know, like

speaker-0: If you're someone who loves apparel that shows your creative side while sharing your faith, I've just the thing for you. Our sponsor, the Printing Ox, has hooked us up with some t-shirts I designed that we're planning to launch later this summer. If you want to support the show, go ahead and pre-order one of the shirts. It has the Creative Chapel logo on the front, and on the back it says, You were made to create, with the scripture of Revelation 4.11 underneath. You might even recognize the design from our backdrop here at the studio. If you'd like to pre-order a shirt, visit the link in our description. And if you have any t-shirt needs for your church, business, or event, make sure to hit up my buddy Forrest at the PrintingOx. He does everything with quality and exemplifies the Creative Chapel spirit. Visit his link in the description as well. Alright, back to the show.

speaker-1: There's no like outside perspective. You know, not that that's ever a bad thing, but just that like, you know, we're we've always been, you know, portrayers of a story, right? Like we've always wanted to tell stories and to like to be able to like have our music be a journey for people and have that be like an experience, you know. So like with Wasteland, like us introducing like lore and like characters and like all this other stuff, like that's such a different dynamic. Right. So like with Wasteland, like it's a lot different than what we've traditionally done because like we're throwing out so many more like tangible elements for people to grab a hold of, like in what we're doing. You know, and especially with, you know, there being new music on the way, you know, we just released a new single, have enough, you know, you know, and and more to come, you know, just so that people know. you know, we want that to be a continuation like Of that experience.

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. one of the songs that sticks out to me was Law of the Wasteland. I really liked the the structure of that lyrically. I feel like that was one of the examples that I I thought of when thinking about like mixing with playing with form, playing with lyric structure, and like advancing into a a different sound for this record. and so it it's kinda like a concept album in that way, that there's this lore and

speaker-1: Yeah, kinda I mean, yeah. I mean, and that's kind of the that's kind of the idea there is like, yeah, 'cause like I said, there's there's characters and plot and there's like all of these different things that get introduced. I like I j genuinely I I think of Twenty One Pilots in that way because they've built this whole world around Clancy. You know what I mean? That this whole story has been developed around him and about his journey and about him fighting the bishops and you know, all of this other stuff. And it's it's truly a unique experience. And it's very inspiring.

speaker-0: Yeah, and so you mentioned your your latest single, Letter Kills. it's been cool seeing that song performed in the in Rails on Instagram for this its tour. I would love to hear more about the inspiration of the lyrics and the meaning behind it.

speaker-1: Yeah, I mean so, you know, I mean the tagline is is this is the letter that kills the Scala Sancticral. I'd have to Google that, but I know that this was like something I believe I wanna say somewhere overseas. Like I just but that that there's this treacherous journey that you're just gonna like your client like the scala sancticral is this massive you know, massive stairs, you know, that you're crawling. I think I think it is religious in nature. Steve would have been the one to ask this question too. yeah, because like when when he he wrote a majority of the lyrics. So yeah, it's but

speaker-0: I googled it right before as I was preparing my notes 'cause that was the line that stuck out to me. I was like, I know what that is. And

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah.

speaker-0: it seemed like a potentially in it has like Catholic roots, I feel like.

speaker-1: Yeah. No, a hundred percent. Yeah. I mean well, I mean it was a rite of passage too. Like, you know what I mean? Like the people did that that did the scalosanct crawl, like this was like this was like like rewarding in nature, you know what I mean, that if you did the crawl, like kind of thing. but the idea of the song being h like that it's very it's like the opposite of that actually, because like this this like it's so massive that there's no end in sight, you know, so There's a line in the song that says, you know, why does it feel like the bottom when I climb to reach the top? Is that like just the idea too that like our sin is constantly like our flesh is constantly pulling us back down and that, you know, we we keep reverting and we keep coming back. like a dog returning to his vomit, you know, as it says in as it says in Proverbs, you know, that It was it was a description of like my journey of returning to these things that I had once put to death, you know, because my flesh had cried out for these things. and that is just this overwhelmingly dread like feeling, like feeling of dread that it was like, I'm I'm trying to climb out of this on my own, and it's just not happening. You know, like and that's where, you know, that opens up the conversation of, you know, Christ being the mediator and that. Christ like pulling us out of that. But but the song like being about like kind of the bootstrap mentality, right? Like trying to pull yourself up and like kind of thing, and it's just not working, and it's just constantly overwhelming you and

speaker-0: Nice. Yeah, I I've really enjoyed this one looking forward to hearing it tonight, as I'm as I'm taking pics of you guys. and so I'm I'm curious, in thinking about what inspires your creativity, whether in the highs and lows in life, where do you typically go in scripture to source a spark of inspiration?

speaker-1: And I mean, there's not really one like particular place, at least for me. I know for Steve, Steve's a pastor. So I know the it kind of just depends because there's a lot of stuff that he's inspired by and a lot of stuff that I'm inspired by differently. and we try to like collaborate on those ideas or throw them all under the, you know, the hat, so to speak. a lot of my stuff is like very emotionally driven. You know, I'm I'm like very ADHD, you know, like I feel my emotions very intensely, you know, kind of thing. So like I try to use those as a driving force to try to like navigate like my humanity and navigate like what that means creatively, like as an artist, you know, to kind of just like seek out different like potential points of where, you know, like different situations or different places or even different times in my life that could have been something interesting. to like talk about essentially.

speaker-0: Nice. I guess to to go a little bit deeper, it doesn't have to necessarily focus too much on even inspiration for creativity, but I guess what's a what's a story reverse in in scripture that just you continually draw back to, whether it's whether it's moments on tour where you're like far from the family and yeah just a moment in

speaker-1: I mean the pair I mean the parables are always good, you know, but no. one particular story in the old testament that I've always been drawn to has always has always been Hosea. just because like that is really like a true testament to like us as people versus like you know our attitude towards God, right? Like, you know, like Hosea had you know faithfully had kept going out into the streets looking for his wife Gomer. Like, you know, and like had kept seeking her out while she kept, you know, going off and doing her own thing, you know, and exploring her own desires. And, you know, obviously to the point where it captured her in syn, you know, it it enslaved her, literally. that that's that's one story that we used to kind of like tell on stage. that was like a direct relation to the gospel just because it is so it is honestly so jarring in nature, you know, but it is a very direct representation of that. So yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah, it's a very produp provocative story, which is I feel like fits so well into this scene. you know, thinking about the contrast between the Christian Melcore scene and and hardcore scene and versus like C CM that's very polished, sanitized, buttoned up. it's like stories like Hosea doesn't doesn't come out in in that scene.

speaker-1: You in

speaker-0: And I think that's what makes Christian hardcore and and Christian metal so good is the authenticity. Is the is the realness of like going into the deep dark places that the sanitized flannel graph kind of Sunday school is is afraid to go into. And I think that's partly why going kind of like backtracking a little bit is the reception on the audience side is is So open to it of being like, you I'm not I'm not a believer, but I like these guys' sound and it seems real interest.

speaker-1: Encouraging, for sure. Yeah.

speaker-0: and so I know you got the show to prep for, I don't want to keep you too long. and so I got just some some quick rapid fire questions to end the show with. Okay. I would love to know what's a a song or album that you're most proud of.

speaker-1: I know it's really corny to s always say the new record, but definitely the new record. just Wasteland is just such a like the way that the story has come together is always is just like a proud moment, you know, especially I know for Steve as well, like just the way all of those ideas laid out and there's like this this tangible story, you know, it's just been such a such a cool moment. song wise off of it, Law of the Wasteland. I mean it's just the heaviest thing that we've ever written and it it speaks to my inner metal head hardcore kid.

speaker-0: Yeah, it's great. It's an awesome song. and so keeping with the the rapid fire questions, who are some inspirations for you musically, who do you look up to? You've we've mentioned a few bands already in T Max.

speaker-1: But yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, back in the day, Jake was definitely one of them from ABR. Like he was like I just I love Jake Scream. I think his I think that just his performance is insane. Like we toured with him years and years ago, you know, and it was awesome to see him live. but yeah, big influence of the bands just in general is thrice. Like like Thrice's music has always been. I mean, you could probably tell in some of our older stuff, like it's very heavily influenced by a lot of that. but yeah, just a lot of other really old bands, like or you know, older bands now, I guess you could say, like Under Oath and Story of the Year and you know, just a lot of other rock bands in that in that era, yellow card, like just inspired by a lot of those as well, like musically.

speaker-0: Nice. For this is the these are two questions I ask all my guests as I wrap up the show. And so that's what's inspiring you right now? you know, you're you're touring, so you might just be like I'm just trying to get through it. but

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: what's inspiring you as an artist right now?

speaker-1: honestly like each other. Like we just we have such a good time hanging out. Like, you know, it's it's so awesome. Like it feels like, you know, you haven't seen brothers in like years, you know, that's what it feels like. So when we get together as a band, like we're always hanging out, we're always doing something, you know. So nice.

speaker-0: I still feel I don't know how I feel about this question, 'cause it feels a little bit corny I guess to me. But this question led me to you, so I'm appreciative of that with Trevor. So that is who is somebody that you would love to hear on Creative Chapel? and that could be more of even praised as who is just an artist that you would love to to hear their thoughts on that you haven't

speaker-1: yeah. I mean I always I mean I already mentioned him once, but Jake Lurz, I mean I definitely have always loved listening to his heart and just like his journey through music and where he's been as an artist. I mean he has so much to share, especially through like what led to the creation of like heart support and like a lot of his other ventures. So Jake, your next buddy.

speaker-0: Yeah, I hope so. That'd be dope. they're coming to town. They got a sold out show here in San Diego. So my buddy just texted me today, and was like, Hey do you wanna go? I'm like, It's kinda sold out And so he's

speaker-1: Right.

speaker-0: like, Well I know a guy at Soma, so maybe he can get me in.

speaker-1: Soma's sick. I haven't been to Soma we haven't played Soma in a long time. Like that would be sick.

speaker-0: it's a stack line of two. You got Augustburns Red, you have Underoath at City's Burning, which is my personal

speaker-1: Yep, is another big influence of ours. Son I Loved You at Your Darkest is probably one of the best records like ever.

speaker-0: Yeah. I'm trying to get Cody on the show. We've connected through email in the past, so just released new records.

speaker-1: Okay, cool. Dude, yeah, they did. Yeah.

speaker-0: So well Nick, thanks for being on the show. Yeah, and like just randomly doing this in in the the house camoose here. Cool.

speaker-1: Communal space. Yeah.

speaker-0: Well thank you so much. Thanks for watching this episode of the Creative Chapel Podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow along to stay up to date on more episodes. We're shooting out of communion church in San Diego, California. If you're looking for a great church to be a part of, this is the place to be. Stay faithful, stay creative. And I'll see you in the next episode.