speaker-0: Welcome to Creative Chapel, a podcast exploring the vast landscape of Christian artistry. Across denominations and disciplinary mediums, Creative Chapel is building a space where saints can gather and celebrate their walk with Christ with their God given gifting, encouraging each other in their faith and their craft. Creative Chapel is the place for inspiration, curation, and revelation. Hello, and welcome to Creative Chapel. I'm your Host Chris Mack, and today I'm joined by artist and illustrator Jory Mertens. And you're someone whose work I've been following for a couple months now, and I came by your work I think through another artist named Craig Yingst. I don't know if you're familiar with him.

speaker-1: Yeah, a little bit.

speaker-0: Yeah, and so I think he might have like reposted something of yours or or the algorithm just brought you up, but I really was attracted to your work. I started following you and then recently you posted this this awesome print of a a mosaic of Jesus and I like, This is incredible. This is an awesome piece. and so you're actually the first illustrator and an artist. Is like illustrator accurate or d would you prefer a different term?

speaker-1: No, Ill Illustrator's just fine. I I think of myself as an illustrator and in the in the sense that I'm trying to always tell a story in whatever I'm creating. And so and I I just I pair Illustrator with with storying to some degree. as far as what I illustrate can be in a lot of different things. printmaking i is Definitely my emphasis. but I've I've reached out into or branched out into a lot of different a lot of different things.

speaker-0: Great, yeah. And and so I feel like lately on Creative Chapel has been very film heavy. lots of a gambit of musicians, whether rappers or like today's episode just dropped and it's the the scream vocalist for a metal core band, Christian Metalcore band. and so I'm really excited to have you on because you're you're our first illustrator and and artist by that nature and and usage of the term. So I'd love this is our first time really talking, you know, we connected on Instagram just a little bit. And so I'd love just to get more of your testimony, how y how you came to faith, or were brought up in faith, as well as like your journey as an artist and and where those roads cross and you know, just your story.

speaker-1: Sure. Well, I'm in the Episcopal Church now, but I did not start in the Episcopal Church. I I grew up a Southern Baptist church. I went to a Bible college undergrad where I I got a a a bachelor's in social justice work, which I think has been a big emphasis on on what what I try to create. is is justice focused for sure. but the Epix Episcopal Church is where I've landed, where I I love being because you can there there's a variety there's a broad variety of ideas in the Episcopal church and it's okay to not all share one absolute view of absolutely everything. And I really appreciate that. what we were kind of talking about off camera there, about just ecumenical dialogue or cross-denomination dialogue. I find that a lot in in the tradition I'm in now. as far as an artist, before I planned on going to the Bible college that I went to, my plan was to was to go to school for art, go down to full sale. similar place like that, full sale university that is.

speaker-0: Yeah, as a filmmaker I'm I'm familiar with that. I had a buddy who attended there, which is interesting. I don't I don't know if I re realize that they did more more than filmmaking. but

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, they do lot of stuff. I it was it was a good friend of mine in high school that had just started there for graphic design. And yeah, he was a good buddy. We we were in youth group together and and he he talked about how much he loved it and you know, I I I probably was born an artist and so I think I you know, that's always been part of who I am. And so yeah, I I wanted to do that and decided to go this other direction instead, but I came back around to it and now it's a big part of my ministry.

speaker-0: Thanks for being an early listener of the Creative Chapel podcast. As a new show, it means so much that you're here. Please like, subscribe, and download our episodes to keep the momentum going. And share it with a friend who could use encouragement in their creative journey. Alright, back to the show. Yeah, it's very interesting. you know, I think on some level of thinking about career tra trajectory and I mean I I had this thought today that that is like filmmaking is more of an expensive hobby than than a career at this stage. I've done way more just work that is unpaid and unseen than actually getting paid for it. So it would have been better to go study something else, I feel like, and then keep doing film. and so

speaker-1: Yeah, for sure. for sure. It it it's not my creative endeavors don't don't pay all my bills. And so I you know, I work as a box maker. I design and print boxes, which has been a family it's been a family career for three generations now. And so but that's also part of my artistic journey is where the process to print on boxes has influenced how I print things. today, my own things. Yeah. And so it's been fun to pair that.

speaker-0: Yeah, it's so interesting 'cause I feel like there is there would be a whole lot of overlap and it it would explain your your craft a little bit and your approach there, which I I definitely want to get into. But I think this brings up a an interesting thread that I I was going to cover later, but transitions well to right now in that you know, as artists it's hard to navigate work life balance. even even what I'm doing now between like there's the the passion projects, there's the projects I get paid for, there's the work outside of that that I get paid to do that is no creative at w it's just like odd jobs around town. and then family and husband and father with all of that. I'd be curious of of your journey with work life balance where you have found success, where you feel like you're still growing in, and and how do you bake in your your needs as an artist to be to be fed there both in the like the conceptual of like just meditating and and bringing things into your your soul and the the actual like execution of

speaker-1: Yeah, well well first I give a lot of credit to my wife Brianna. She for one she's brilliant and she she is a fantastic partner in life and has encouraged me every step of the way, for of of whatever I'm doing. And she's she's really good about telling me like no, that's that's a bad idea or no, that's yeah, you you would be fantastic at that. Pursue that. And so credit to her for sure. And we we have three daughters. And so watching them grow and being a part of their life is definitely the the biggest priority for me. my oldest, well my two oldest are are so creative in what they do. My youngest is three, so we'll see. I think she is creative too. But especially my my seven year old daughter, she She wants to make YouTube videos that teach kids how to create different things. And so she is very creative in what she does. and so the coming alongside her to do different things like that or to film her making a video on how to make some kind of craft for other kids is is really special. And so that's where I I get some of that creative fulfillment. by watching what my children do. and that's that's really important to me. you know with work home balance, I'm lucky enough in my in my day job, this is my office for my day job, that I can do my own creative endeavors in my same in the same space that I work in. And so when I don't have a project on my desk, I can go to the press right back there and and print up something. I can flip from QuickBooks or whatever and go into my illustrator and start drawing something. and so I have a I've been very lucky that I have that capability bounce back and forth when I have nothing going on at work at the moment. And so I I'm very lucky in that. Yeah. It it's been it's been a huge blessing being able to do that here.

speaker-0: Yeah. I think in this season of life what I'm finding another aspect of difficulty is work, home life, and like just spiritual disciplines of of stay staying consistent in scripture and prayer and personal times of worship, I feel like even even that has been difficult like obviously there is a an aspect of like I am I've I'm being like Christ in just being with my family and and being, you know, patient and kind and and loving towards them and expressing the the fruits of the spirit. But when it does come to like certain spiritual disciplines that I, you know, really enjoyed in other seasons of life that seem more difficult to execute these days. that's been been sitting in the the back of my mind as I wind down to watch Netflix at the end of the night. But

speaker-1: Which I think's important. I think it's good to veg out on those things. It's good to have that outlet where you can kind of empty your mind into something that that is great, you know, watching the office or something like that, whatever it might be for you. I think that's important part of the creative process is just being able to empty yourself for an hour or so. I I I think that's important.

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: for me what what helps me is definitely my my church community. I'm an active minister in the church and we we're a very active parish. I have you know, people challenging me to do my job better is a is really important. the the prayer and liturgy cycle in the Episcopal Church is is something that I like to meditate on, I like to think about. we're in ordinary time right now, but quickly approaching Advent, that's something that I'm excited about to get into Advent. You know, like I we did it a year ago, but it's this cycle in the liturgical church is something that I find very helpful of of keeping me focused. and like just the changing of the church seasons. Teaching me new things is is so is so important. That's one reason I've I've fallen in love with with the church tradition that

speaker-0: yeah, I'm curious in your like research for you know landing on on being episc a episcline, right, is that

speaker-1: Episcopalian Episcopalian. Yeah, yeah. No worries.

speaker-0: The Episcopal Church. within your like research did you did you research like Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, you know, other other aspects? 'Cause I think from what I've heard about the Southern Baptist tribe, I've you know, I grew up charismatic Pentecostal that has its own systems and and things in place for you know culture. But it seems like the Southern Baptists are pretty rigid in a well, I'm trying to be delicate with my words.

speaker-1: I know what you're trying to say. Yeah.

speaker-0: And so I'm just curious of the process of how did you go from from being Seventh Baptist to researching what what felt like a a life giving denomination ahead in time.

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. and and there's a lot that I could talk about in that question that is probably probably not the best for for a podcast at the moment. But y when you start questioning things that you were brought up with, or you start wondering if there's more to the story, on why a church denomination might hold the views that they hold. it it makes you want to learn more about the history. And I some of my my things that I've done, like as far as the saints or or folk heroes, I really love history and I love to learn. And so thinking about being being presented with a question that doesn't make sense to me. in all the ways I've I've heard it and thought about it and I've gone through undergrad being taught about it and something d doesn't seem right. Like I'm I'm gonna dig in, I'm gonna you know, prayerfully or in meditation or something and I'm gonna find sources that Help me to understand why I'm questioning this or that. there is there's a big period of life where I was I was thinking about a lot of these things. more and more stopped making sense to me. I I saw the church not acting like Jesus, in my opinion. not just my local parish. and again, I have a lot of friends at that parish or a local church, and so I'm not throwing them under by any means, but as a whole, the denomination I I felt uncomfortable with where it was at. And it made me start looking at what other possibilities were out there as far as possibilities isn't the right word, but what other traditions and and and denominational ideas are out there I guess for me. And you know, I was reading a lot of books and a lot of those authors kept turning out to be Episcopalians. So and and my wife and I I was very lucky. We were kind of going through the same thing together. And so we're reading these books and more and more ended up being Episcopalian or Anglican to some degree and So I looked up like well, where's the closest Episcopal church? Let's just go. Let's let's see what it's all about. And sure enough, there's one in our hometown, and it ends up being a one of the biggest episcopal churches in Missouri. And so, like, okay, well, let's let's go see what it's all about. And just had one of those feelings that you get in different ways that's like, man, this feels like home. And over the next many months. talking to the clergy there, other people in the church, people that we didn't know went there but are Episcopalian or friends of ours, learning more about it, reading, just figuring out like this is this is where we belong. And then going through that process through seminary, learning a lot more history, the Anglican tradition, the Episcopal tradition. And I I haven't regretted much of it. There's always there's always things. Every no denomination is perfect. There's always things that you could change or you wish was a little different. But for the most part, it's a very good place to be.

speaker-0: Yeah, I think that journey is really cool and and it touches on I think when we think of art and creativity, we I think we just tend to think about the like the act of being creative and like the execution of it and like the product of like here is the piece of art. but creativity in nature is just something that's so integrated into everything. Like we source inform we source inspiration from from everything, all all of our life experience. and so I think it's really cool how all of that, your your journey, and your love of history has now been a a great source of inspiration into what you're creating. and you know I think again I'm I'm kinda like Pentecostal so that feels like you know the low church vein of of Protestantism. and so I think a lot of that low church culture has left behind some of the rich stories of the saints, which I think are super inspiring and and something that I want to dive more into just as a a place of inspiration both spiritually and creatively, 'cause I I think the the stories are are fascinating and the the mythos behind it all. and so in your work right now you're you're covering both scripture and saints and and those saints are both known and unknown. What were what were the the first seedlings of like going to that as a source of inspiration for artwork and and what led you to to Illustrate Saints?

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. coming into the Episcopal Church, and growing up how I grew up, very low church, you know, we don't have saints hanging in our halls at at in the Southern Baptist Convention. I I didn't have I didn't have much of a thought about saints. and so coming into it, I I did have questions like, well, what are we doing with these saints? Like are we praying through them? Are we praying to them? Like what is it all about? And what what I like to describe it as these are heroes of the faith. which I should state not all the saints in the saint calendar or whatever are actually that good of people. There's some that are really not fantastic, but there's a lot that are just they're they're heroes of the faith. They have gone through different forms of oppression, they've gone through different hardships, and to some degree or the other, they have helped others in those hardships, oppressions, whatever. and and they have given they have given a something to Christendom that is lasting as an example to example for how you live your life of faith. And so when I when I'm sketching out a saint or I'm learning about a new saint. I'm thinking about what what are the things I want to share about this specific person? why are they important? and how does that help me and others in our faith journey? you know, I I don't I I know there are some groups that see them as as much grander. a demi demigod or something like that, or some kind of divine no, I I I'm looking at them as as heroes of the faith that are role models, more or less. and so I first I'm not the first, but one of my first big projects I got was from US Catholic magazine. So I was it's a rather progressive Catholic magazine. and they had a story on folk saints from around the world. so some canonized, I think two out of the list was canonized, but I think eight or nine of them were just local, culturally venerated people, right? And and one was a dog. And so that was that was fun also.

speaker-0: Yeah, really like that one. I I was looking at just your your artwork of Saint Junefoy, is that how you say it?

speaker-1: Yeah, Guinefort. Yeah, I I think I'll be honest, I I I think it's a French name, so I may even I might be pronouncing it wrong. But

speaker-0: Yeah. I loved reading the the story that you listed with your with your post on Instagram. It was really interesting and my wife is like really big into dogs and so I'm sure she would love love that. Also be kind of heartbroken but also love but yeah it was really

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. It it's a tough story and but you know, what came out of it is that this is a place that I believe it's in a little village in France that people can come to and they pray for their children who might be sick, or s to some degree like that. and so like that's that's a special thing. again, like I was commissioned to draw all of those, and so it's it's not like Maybe I would have gone out of my way to go learn about them. but I am so thankful that I learned about each one of them. because they're so interesting. and locally, in big and small ways, they're important to the culture of where they're from. And to some degree has inspired people in their own journey and life of faith. And so yeah, they they're they're neat, they're fun to learn about. Their stories are Amazing. And from that first story I worked on with US Catholic, just learning about more and more folk saints along the way in the years past has been tons of fun.

speaker-0: Yeah, I think it I think about the the scripture in Revelation where it says we will And they they overcame the enemy by the blood of the land and the the power of their testimony. And and the I'm kinda like butchering it th right now, but like the

speaker-1: That's that sounds that sounds close to it. That sounds good.

speaker-0: and so thinking about like by the power of their testimony, like testimony is story, and like as a as a filmmaker I'm always looking for story and storytelling and and how that applies into other creative works as well. and so d like when I think about the saints, you know, the the cloud of witnesses comes to mind too from scripture with them. And so being in heaven I feel like it's just gonna be a lot of storytelling. and we're gonna hear a lot of interesting stories about how God was in the mix of of the big moments and the small moments, the the moments in private that were huge battles of faith and the the moments in public that were seemed so minuscule but ended up having a a large impact. And so it's cool like discovering these stories of the saints and how they implement a com like impact community and and inspire just emotion, thought and like how can I change my behavior? Like like I think it's so striking the the story I've already forgotten how to pronounce this dog's name, Junifort. Gunifort

speaker-1: Guifort, I

speaker-0: Gwen. Okay. like just thinking about Guinifort's owner and like the remorse that he would feel upon you know for like spoilers for the story for anyone out there basically the story goes if I'm remembering correctly is that a man walks into his home from being away and he entrusted his dog to to watch over his baby, walks in and sees the the crib turned over, and

speaker-1: Blood in the room.

speaker-0: blood in the room and not a dog and so immediately he kills Junifort and then he comes to realize that there is a a bloodied snake in the room and that the baby was fine and so he's kinda like filled with remorse and goes out to to bury Junifort. and so just thinking about like the impact of that owner to feel like just such remorse, such sadness. like it makes me emotional just thinking about it.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: feel like it's so impactful to think about like the the need for patience, the need for the Holy Spirit to not just enact in violence for for all sorts of different circumstances in life. Sure. and then the the way to honor those who have done a good act. and honoring them with with remorse is is super powerful. And I feel like that's just something that's missing in the broader scope of of Christian artwork is is the ability to tap into emotion in general. And like stirring a feeling that's uncomfortable. Like it's uncomfortable to want to cry right now. It's uncomfortable to want to sit with the feelings of remorse and and sadness. But When we look at Christian storytelling, whether it's in C CM music or a lot of Christian filmmaking or even just like artwork and especially the egregious kind of like AI stuff being produced. I had somebody give me a an AI children's book the other day and I was like Thanks,

speaker-1: Nice.

speaker-0: I guess. So this is gonna be tossed soon. but it It's missing an emotional connection I feel like because it's so impressed upon for theological

speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah.

speaker-0: lectures and so in preaching. and so these stories of the saints w they illustrate that it's not only just the theology but it's also emotion and not obviously like emotion can ex and does exist in theology. But I feel like kinda intellectualism kinda like stops

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: the emotion.

speaker-1: If just to cut in here with that, you had mentioned before before we started recording, actually in your in your notes here, about Saint Catherine, the patron saint of artists. And I wrote down here just thinking about my own parish. It was built in the 1880s, I believe. And it is very ornate and growing up like I'm used to a like a concert hall, right? Like that's how my evangelical church was. it's more like a concert hall. And and I was when I first entered into the episcopal churches that I I've I serve in, there there is like a feeling of that's a lot of money like put into this stuff. but I'm an artist and I see these things like this is someone that wants this space to be reverent, wants it to be prayerful. And if these objects in the sanctuary help to focus my attention towards something Jesus did, you know, the the very ornate stained glass windows or the different portraits of Saints or Jesus or disciples or whoever on the wall. you know, that's that's something that is important. Yeah. And Saint Catherine of Bologna, the patron saint of artists, what she is known for is for one, copying down like liturgical books for her convent. She was a nun, she was a poor cler, which is part of the Franciscan tradition. And they served by making these by copying liturgical books down for other communities so that they could worship in their own language and things like that. But one thing that she did in hers was that she also illustrated like biblical scenes. She illustrated a hymn or etc. whatever it might be. And so she added something that was It's not necess it's not necessary, but it's adding something reverent to it. She's doing it because it's this adds beauty, this adds emotion, this adds character into whatever it is that you're praying or thinking about or medi meditate meditating on. And so Saint Catherine is a it's a really neat individual because she was decorating these tools for worship. and that's not so different than what we do in our parish, and what people do in their own churches. and it's a good example. Why art is important in the worship space, and in the other spaces that you meditate on theology about Jesus, things like that. Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah, definitely. I'm glad you brought up that that would it would you consider it a painting or an illustration of Saint Catherine that you did?

speaker-1: Illustration, yeah.

speaker-0: I really love it. I think it it's really beautiful and and interesting. and so with I'd love to to use this as a subway into like your process when you think about a piece, you know, thinking through like styling, thinking about technique, materials. I'd love to go in on on your creative process and Just ways that you like to work.

speaker-1: Yeah, so early on, so like like the Saint Catherine, that's very Fauvist, right? If you I don't know if you know Fauvism, that's a very early twentieth century movement that happened mainly out of France. And so it favors color and emotion over form is kinda the idea. And so my my earliest stuff I really I really like Fauvism because I 'cause it has so much emotion and it the color is usually very bright. and if you're not very great at form, like I don't think I'm very great at form, it kind of gives you an out. so there there's there's a help in that. But that's one of that's one of the stylings or expressions that I like to think within is I I'd rather convey something in emotion and in color. which is ironic because I do tons of printmaking and just one color black. But even within that, there's there's a a German early 20th century German movement called Diebruck, which is the bridge is what it translates to, but that also is a movement with a lot of printmaking within that early early movement that focused on expression focus on emotion and did not focus so much on form, you know, creating a picture copy of something. And I think well I'd like to believe a lot of my my relief prints come from that vein where I would much rather emotion be conveyed than some kind of perfect form. and so That's where I get a lot of my process and well a lot of my thinking is I I want something to be conveyed with whatever I'm making, you know. I wanna like what I'm what I make and and and those are things that's important to me and I find others like that as well.

speaker-0: Yeah, I have it pulled up here. and I I love the elements of different colors used to represent the like the shadows, the highlights, and even you know, there's not a whole lot of you know, like I guess outlining and line work to like this is a d distinguished silhouette except on her hand holding the art brush. which I think is really cool and just a nice detail of highlighting what she's a patron saint of. and so it's beautiful, beautiful work.

speaker-1: Yeah, s going along with that, if you go over to my landscape stuff and look at the Roadrunner, I made those back to back. within a couple weeks of each other. You'll see they're very similar. And the Roadrunner also like you know, the background is who know like what what is he standing in? What is that Roadrunner standing in? Who knows? Is there like a dune behind him? No, but it's like all of the color I think brings about an adventurous emotion. or a gritty emotion and and and so that's kind of the fun learning about like the different artistic expressions like favism, davuk those are fun things to learn about and then try to incorporate into your own work and and that's where that's where I get a lot of inspiration from is learning about different artistic styles.

speaker-0: Yeah, I have I I'm always impressed to when an artist switches up styles. and it seems like, you know, looking through your body of work you have a a pretty vast difference in styles. in in your what I I I could be wrong here in describing this, but in in some of your work it's like seems more folk, styling in terms of just a pretty two D image and and replaces your landscapes a little bit more three D more depth to it. do you find it challenging to switch styles at all? as somebody who doesn't work in this medium a whole lot, you know, I I like to draw and I like to doodle, I like to paint, but it's not my it's kinda like if I get to do it cool. I'm not trying to like you know, be impressive with it at all. But I find that if I go to draw somebody I find storyboarding, they always look the same. And so do you find it challenging to like switch styles or or is that part of kind of like the fun of

speaker-1: You know it's hard as as I I try to learn new things and what I do, you know, I try to always better myself, improve myself. And so like like recently almost everything I put out is is a relief print. and so like that's something that I'm I'm really into. I really like. I love the simplicity of it and the messiness of it. And so I don't know, but for instance, I I did the US Catholic cover for November. It's coming out in just a few weeks. my my what I first sent to them was something more of what I've done lately. So more lino cut, woodcut looking, relief print type thing. And my contact there is like, Well, hey, like w I like more of your folk saint stuff that you did. So very fauvist, expressionist, lots of color, lots and lots of color. And so that that was a little tricky because I haven't done that in a long time. going back and and trying to put a lot more color into stuff where I haven't just recently I haven't done tons of color things. And so that was challenging, but I found it to be a fun challenge. I enjoyed the back and forth with the editor and and and trying to find what worked well for them and what I what I found I was capable of at the moment. And yeah, so it's fun. It's fun changing that back and forth, but it it is it does get difficult. you kinda get locked into a mode. And yeah. Like even my Illustrator program, I have it set up to do like relief print type work. And so trying to, you know, find some of the tools that I would use for one of my older illustrations with tons of color and things like that. Like I had to I had to like reformat my illustrator. but you know that was that was fun. It was it was a good kind of memory journey.

speaker-0: I don't really have like a a thought or a or a question paired with this, but just like another piece to to shout out. Your your Jesus art relief print of the woman at the well I think is so cool. It's

speaker-1: Yeah. Thank you.

speaker-0: really really interesting and striking. I love just like the chiseledness of both of of them. everyone just so sharp and and interesting to look at. it's

speaker-1: Thank you. That was a request from a priest in my diocese. she she was going to be teaching on that. And she first asked for something in color, I believe. And I said, I would love to make this much more simplistic, much more bold, kind of some lines that are not necessarily like. that go together all that well. you get what looks like more sharp gouges in the plate, the printing surface. And and I think that just adds, you know, that that story is is not a clean stor it's it's a clean story, but it's not like a clean cut story. Yeah. you know, anytime Jesus talks to people in the gospels, you know, there's usually it's a messy story. you know, people are not just Simple, everything's good, this is just those stories would never have been passed down if that's how the story was. Yeah. So there's always more to it. And I think that ruggedness, I I hope that ruggedness of that helps the story.

speaker-0: So yeah, I think so. I it's it's very striking. I like it a lot. and so there's there's kind of like two threads with with that that does come up. I want to get more into like the process of printing, but before that, you you mentioned now like being commissioned. for an artist who is like maybe just starting in their like I don't know how to get paid for my work or or even get commissions. Yeah. I'm curious how how you got started being commissioned for work, how did the said the US Catholic

speaker-1: Mm-hmm.

speaker-0: magazine how did Yeah, how did they like first reach out to you or or other people or how did that like all start and and get connected?

speaker-1: Yeah, I so very similar to how you found me. I I think I just showed up in an al algorithm. you know, I've I've done three covers for the magazine, I've done three or four book covers now, for for different places. I only one of those connections for between a magazine and book cover was from someone that I actually know. all of them reached out through social media or contacted me through my website. I have I have my email on there and asked if it was something I was interested in doing. And with the exception of one project I was asked to do, like I I'm always up for a challenge. And I think that other creatives, if it's not going to put you down some kind of bad spiral, which I understand and I get and that can happen to me too. Then i if you think you can do it, try, give it a chance. I found that you know, we we we've talked about or we were going to talk about imposter syndrome at some point. It's really easy in those first requests, especially when they say like a due date or something like that. We're like, I there's no way I can do this. and and know your I mean you have to know yourself. Maybe th maybe you can't. And that's okay. That's okay also. But I think that stepping out to that challenge is is a really fun thing to do. And at least in my space, you you're working with people that generally may not go to the same denominational church, share the same values of grace and mercy and and understanding. And I think that if you if you can rest on that, that that can help you get into those spaces and have some confidence in yourself that you're gonna make mistakes and people will I think people in those places will most likely be kind to you in those mistakes. and so give it a try. Give you know give in to the challenge a little bit. Yeah, so I most most people that have contacted me for stuff. I've done some pet portraits which are fun. you know, like they just reach out on Instagram or on my website and and then those connections get built and then you get to do more and more stuff. if you pay me to do like a magazine cover, a book cover, I'll also just promote the heck out of whatever you you know, so like I think that's twofold. I want them to do well and I would love to do more of that type of work. So

speaker-0: Do they do they come to you with like 'cause it's kinda like the business side of things, but do they come with you like with a set budget or are they like what would you charge? And like do you find it easy or challenging to to set that if you are setting your price?

speaker-1: Yeah, that that can be a little bit more difficult. I know I know some of the book covers had a rather strict budget. Their plan was just to use a public domain image. but they really liked something else that I had done and so they wanted something similar in there. It's not it's not the main in income for me and my family. I'm generally willing to work with someone. it but that is a hard thing. because I've I've had very small budgets. I want them to do well, I want them to have something nice. And then I've had budgets that's like, you're offering what? well that's that's very kind and generous and whatever you want I will do. and so

speaker-0: It's kinda I always try to keep a poker face when I'm faced with those types. It's like, yeah, I guess I could do it for that.

speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. So i it is it is hard. And general I've seen I think every time I have to you kinda have to break the silence with what you would like to be paid for a certain job.

speaker-0: If you're someone who loves apparel that shows your creative side while sharing your faith, I've just the thing for you. Our sponsor, the Printing Ox, has hooked us up with some t-shirts I designed that we're planning to launch later this summer. If you want to support the show, go ahead and pre-order one of the shirts. It has the Creative Chapel logo on the front, and on the back it says you were made to create, with the scripture of Revelation 4.11 underneath. You might even recognize the design from our backdrop here at the studio. If you'd like to pre-order a shirt, visit the link in our description. And if you have any t-shirt needs for your church, business, or event, make sure to hit up my buddy Forrest at the PrintingOx. He does everything with quality and exemplifies the Creative Chapel spirit. Visit his link in the description as well. Alright, back to the show. Well, you have your your your process behind you for printing. So I'd love to get into that a little bit. I find that like when I first saw your your mosaic Jesus you know at first I just saw it as like the print and then I scrolled through the carousel and I saw like your process of it and like the mold or the the press for it. and so I'm like super fascinated by that process 'cause I feel like it it seems pretty traditional compared to today's digital day and age. and so yeah I'd just kinda like throw it to you to like talk about that process and go as much into the weeds as you want on the tech Or keep it

speaker-1: On on that specific job, I did a full color mosaic of that of Jesus. And so and it's just it's just his head with you know kind of the halo around and it has a very subtle crown of thorns that you can see in there. and I wanted Jesus looking straight out at the perspective like at the viewer. and so when I first Drew this up. It was first a digital illustration. it had every single little pebble looking square in that. I don't know what every little spot was a different shade of brown, right? And so I I thought it looked really cool. I liked it. sold a couple of them. But then I kind of just moved on from it. And recently I've been wanting to do a lot more screen work. So putting instead of solid lines to make up an illustration of using tiny little dots. so there's thousands of dots within the Jesus mosaic that I did. And there there is a digital aspect to it. it'd be I think pretty impossible to make all of those thousands of little dots at the sizes that's needed. Yeah. But I was able to take that old vector file, bring it into it's essentially a knockout program within my it's a plug-in within my illustrator that I can apply a screen which is just tons of tiny little dots to this and and make every single little thing its own line count or dot count. This is something we do in in box printing. And so like this is kind of my thought process. it was something that I wanted to try. I didn't know how well it would do. but making this image completely of thousands tens of thousands of little dots, I thought it it'll be fun. Maybe it will work, maybe it will not. but from that, like I'm using one ink. Like I'm not it's not like I'm using ten different shades of greys and blacks to create this. it's it's used from one pass on the press there behind me. and so it's it's just I outputted the digital file with all of these dots into a a polymer plate printing surface. And so the plate has you can feel the texture of it has all of these thousands of little dots. And I can do that here in my in my in my building and so I I put it through the machine. lasered out every single one of those little dots. And I bring it into print and yeah, I just roll over this big roller, which doesn't look that big, but the thing weighs like ninety pounds. because it's full solid iron. and so adjusting for weight, too much weight makes all those dots fill in and doesn't it'll come out looking really bad. It won't look like an image. It'll look like a black blob and too light and you start missing the detail that I want to show up. And so it was fun trying to find that perfect amount of pressure from the cylinder onto the printing surface and between them a piece of paper, right? That you want it to transfer onto. And so it was interesting. I had not done like a heavy screen to print like that before. but my my process, yeah, is is I'm illustrat digitally illustrating something first and then outputting it, whether that be a polymer plate, sometimes a metal etching, and and and going from there and figuring out it seems like every I can make I can make every plate the same thickness, which I usually do like a 0.155 inch thickness. And It seems like everything I make has needs a different pressure. So the first couple of prints I do of everything is just it's wrong. And so I'm always trying to adjust how much pressure is needed for every single print. And and I think that's a lot of the fun in this because it's very hands-on.

speaker-0: Yeah, I was just thinking, it it might might feel like a little tedious in the moment, but it it's still so special to like the actual like hand craftedness of the process of like it's so rare in today's world. Like when I went to film school we didn't use a you know, we used cameras, but they're all digital, so we didn't cut physical film at all. I don't have a physical script. I've never seen a physical script or played with it. And the the process of like physically editing a film strip has always been interesting to me. I'd like to do that one day. Which is, you know, what the Holy Spirit dwells in, it when it's more than just a click of the mouse, but it's really the application of a a tool, or feeling the weight of something and balancing that with the you know, the strength that God has given you. I feel like it is kind of lost in today's digital landscape. and it feels just so special and like I'm glad that it's you kinda recognize that and enjoy that aspect of it.

speaker-1: I I do. I really like that. every print that goes out of my little studio here, has been touched by me. I I printed every single thing. And so yeah, I I think I think there's a neat aspect to that. That it it sometimes literally on the back will have my fingerprints on it. because I've put my thumb in a ink ink spot or something. that's it's something that's important and and yeah, I think there's I think there's some theological thought that can go in that as well of God's workmanship, right? We're all we all have some kind of a divine spark within us for creativity or or for whatever whatever your thing is.

speaker-0: God's thumbprint is somewhere you know, yeah all all over us. But it's fun to think about like how you imprinted your thumbprint on the back of your your artwork. you know, that's yeah, you know, that's kind of all

speaker-1: But yeah. Usually unintentional.

speaker-0: I think it's cool. I think you could just do it as a calling card now. It should just be a part of all of it. but

speaker-1: No, we'll see.

speaker-0: We got just a few few more minutes here. but the a question that I think would be interesting to run by you, is within your work, you know, there's there's saints, there's Jesus, obviously very biblical and Christian life focused. but you also have these these wildlife and landscape portraits. and I think Christian artists of various mediums can struggle with creating anything that isn't overtly Christian and and blatantly Christian. you know, they they might have the desire to create something that's not blatantly Christian, but almost feel like a guilt about doing that. and so I'm curious of like what comes to your mind when presented with that kind of mind mindset.

speaker-1: Yeah. I you know, as far as the landscapes, I I those are the first things I started with. and I remember the first thing I ever made for Brianna, my wife, was was a landscape painting. which I just I don't do much painting, but like that was a painting that I did. And I I'm one that I I I find a lot of joy of being out in nature. with wildlife. I I have a very I have a love for for all things Celtic and thin places and I find I don't know if you've run across the idea of thin places in your in your past, but these places that essentially seem like you are closer to the divine than not. and so this is an old Celtic idea certain places that seem like it's easier to be with more in communion with the spiritual. And for me there's definitely places like that. I have a blue heron as one of my I love doing animals, but I have a blue heron that I did that if I sit out on my back porch, I see this blue heron flying above my house every day. It lives over I don't actually know where it lives. It lives across a highway, across a field, or whatever. But it comes to the pond that is right across the street from my house. And it spends its day there and I can see it flying back to its home. And so there's something that I think like the repetition, this is this thing's life. I I think of some funny things, I wonder if the heron looks at me going to work every day and coming back. But

speaker-0: And I think sounds beautiful too. It's like this this man comes every day.

speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This white truck and then he gets out, whatever. But those are things that I find I find a lot of calm. it's it's very calming to see to watch this. I we can often get so just oppressed by the news, by the the the things going on in our life that is it piles up on us and I don't I don't think it was ever we were ever meant to have as much pressure that's on us in in the world today. And so seeing my blue heron that flies above my house every day just reminds me of a of something calmer I guess and and allows me to kind of escape that the heaviness that is the world. And this is something that's natural and that happens every day and and it's a beautiful thing. some of my other landscapes. My my wife is from New Mexico. A lot of my landscapes take place in New Mexico. you know, the Roadrunner is the State Bird of New Mexico. And like those things are just neat. You know, they they come the the mountains you might see in something that I've done, it comes from some kind of memory of me being with the people that I love so much down there, my wife's family, that It just seems like a a s it's a spiritual thing also. it can be not Christian but it's overtly, but it is still very it's a very spiritual thing. and I should say also my my studio, Everbound Press, which I have a like a second shop with that, has a lot of this also. It's a lot more literary quotes, it's a lot more landscapes, it's a lot more heroes that maybe were not part of Christendom. to begin with or or ever possibly, but are people that I think people and landscapes and literary devices that help to ground me. And so that's why I do those things. And I hope that they help other people as well. Because I think today more than ever we need to we need to find a grounding. and realize that All the chaos that happens around us all the time is not the only thing that's happening.

speaker-0: Yeah. Definitely. Well I think that's a an excellent place to kinda wrap up the show, and a great place to to challenge listeners to find that place and to find that place that you find the serenity and the the transcendence of the beauty. For sure. And so yeah, where can where can people find you? Where is your we'll make sure to include the links in the show notes. Yeah. But yeah.

speaker-1: Yeah, artby dot com, all one word. That's it's more of my Christian spirituality things. Everbound Press is my studio where there's a lot more secular, literary, whatever. It's almost all relief print, so if that's your thing, check that out. Instagram under both of those names, Art by Jewelry, Everbound Press, you'll find me.

speaker-0: Awesome. and then these are the two questions I like to to ask all my guests. and so first one is what's inspiring you right now, whether it's it's a place, a book, an author, w whatever is inspiring you.

speaker-1: that's a good question. I mentioned Everbound Press is a lot of literary stuff. I read a lot. I find a lot of inspiration in reading. old writers like Thoreau and John Steinbeck. I think they hint at that same thing I was just talking about of finding a grounding in this world. and I would encourage people to read the old classics like that. But Thoreau is deeply theological. deeply spiritual and I would encourage anyone to read read like that, that kind of work.

speaker-0: Yeah, I've yet to read books by either of those two. Steinbeck's a little bit higher on the list for me.

speaker-1: Mm-hmm.

speaker-0: 'cause I'm I'm a big James Dean fan and he starred in East of Eden back in the day and then there's a new East of Eden that just came out, so Steinbeck's been

speaker-1: It's my favorite book of all time, East of Eden.

speaker-0: Yeah, I'm I'm de that's definitely high on the list for me. so I haven't read it yet. But so next question is I'm refining this a little bit. I've I've phrased this in the past of like who's someone that you would love to see on the show. But I think I'm refining this question to be who's a who's a Christian artist that you'd love to hear more from? and to hear more about their process, their thoughts and everything in between.

speaker-1: Yeah, I there's some there's some phenomenal artists out there. that I'm I I could list a lot of them. There's one that keeps coming up on my feet and I've reached out to her once. We had a brief conversation, but T.S. Banksum is her name, and I'll send you this maybe you can find her. but she's actually an Eastern Orthodox artist. And she does a lot of Lino cuts, she does a lot of saints, and with her stuff. She does a fantastic job on her on her sites, on her Instagram of having some kind of meditative thought with the work that she does. And that's something that I wish I was better at and she does a very a very good job at. So I would love to hear something, some kind of conversation with her.

speaker-0: Awesome. Yeah, I'll definitely look into her art and you know, that's the kind of the joys of doing this show is coming across people I've never heard of. and so I yeah. I love I love that. well Jory, thank you so much for your thoughts and your work. I'll definitely be like adding in your artwork into the video. So if you're listening to this audio only, you might wanna just either check out his website or check out the YouTube video and you can see some of the works within the video. But with that, be blessed, and we'll catch you next time. Thanks

speaker-1: All right. Thank you.

speaker-0: for watching this episode of the Creative Chapel Podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow along to stay up to date on more episodes. We're shooting out of Communion Church in San Diego, California. If you're looking for a great church to be a part of, this is the place to be. Stay faithful, stay creative, and I'll see you in the next episode.