speaker-0: Welcome to Creative Chapel, a podcast exploring the vast landscape of Christian artistry. Across denominations and disciplinary mediums, Creative Chapel is building a space where saints can gather and celebrate their walk with Christ with their God-given gifting, encouraging each other in their faith and their craft. Creative Chapel is the place for inspiration, curation, and revelation. Welcome to Creative Chapel. I'm your host Chris Mack, and today I'm joined by Spencer Whiteout, a filmmaker and podcaster who is always authentically himself. He wrote and directed the feature-length film Space Waves and the feature-length documentary Beast Mode, which is the making of Space Waves. And he also hosts the Spencer Whiteout podcast, where he collects experiences as badges, memories, as treasures, and stories as wealth. Spencer, welcome to the show.

speaker-1: Let's go, Chris. Thanks so much for having me, brother. I am stoked to be here and I love what you're doing with Creative Chapel.

speaker-0: Thank you, man. Yeah, I appreciate it. And you know, you ⁓ you had a good hand in in inspiring ⁓ my launch into podcasting, you know, after we met at Hard Faith Fest, ⁓ in just connecting more and staying connected through phone calls and just filmmaker encouragement. ⁓ you know, when I'm still yet to be featured on ⁓ the Spencer Whiteout podcast, but looking forward to to that. ⁓ but you said

speaker-1: It's gonna happen, dude. It's gonna happen.

speaker-0: Sure. You sent me a ⁓ a document you had made that listed out like topics and things to talk about. I'm like, ⁓ that's a great idea. I'm gonna implement that in my show. So so you know, I I appreciate ⁓ in a way showing me the ropes a little bit ⁓ and the the back end of things in podcasting. ⁓ Yeah, and so we connected at Hard Faith Film Festival, ⁓

speaker-1: Yeah, happy to help.

speaker-0: Where I've connected with a lot of guests on the show so far, which has been ⁓ cool. and so it was it was really cool because we got to talking and you were kind of like helping out with the festival as well as as having space waves in it. And ⁓ we started talking and you started talking a little bit more about your film and the details of it. And I'm like, wait, hold on, I've totally heard of this movie before. Like this is crazy. ⁓ and so I was like, I was trying to think of like I knew I listened to a podcast somewhere. and was trying to figure it out. At first I mentioned like ⁓ the indie film hustle podcast and you were like, Nope, not that one, but Gnome Crawl and I was like, ⁓ yeah, show don't tell. You were on there with with two other people and so it was like I was just having like a crazy moment of like just this far off thing. Like I listen to a podcast and like I have zero connection to these people at all. I don't even know what Gnome Crow looks like. And then here I am face to face with somebody who's been on the show of an episode I really appreciated and remembered. ⁓ and so I was like It's like, ⁓ this is just a cool moment of like podcast now existing in real life or something in real life happening from something I listened to. So that was just like a cool little moment of of how we met.

speaker-1: Yeah. And I remember meeting you and I loved your short film Sons of Thunder. I really liked the lighting. I liked that it was kind of coming of age. ⁓ I like the style to it. So that was really cool seeing that at Hard Faith Festival. And then also just talking with you, connecting, were, you know, close in age and close in, you know, our beliefs and just you're really down to earth guy and we connected too over like Christian Rock. One of the first things I asked you was, So are you related to Toby Mack? And sadly you weren't, you know, but but yeah, we talked about that. We talked about yeah, just like a lot of Christian rock bands and kind of a mutual upbringing in that similar scene as well. So that was cool to connect on.

speaker-0: Yeah, it's funny going to places like Christian film festivals and being into music. You know, it's it's funny in a in a film scene like Hard Faith, you'd think like Christian metal and Christian hardcore would be more popular and more known, but ⁓ it's still it's like you talk to some people, it's like, ⁓ yeah, I have As Cities Burn and My Epic featured in my short film and got to use their music, and they're like, That's cool, I've never heard of them. It's like, Okay, great, that feels awesome. which also just while we're on topic of music, Spacewaves has some awesome synth music in it. ⁓ and so before we really get into the the weeds and the details of space waves, ⁓ I'd love just for the audience to get to know you a little bit more, ⁓ you two share your backstory. ⁓ you have some really cool experiences that I'm really excited to to hear more about. So I'd love to to dive in on who Spencer Whiteout is.

speaker-1: Yeah, you missed out. ⁓ my background. I grew up in Christian environment, you know, Christian K through twelve. My dad was a Bible teacher at my school. So that's kind of like being a pastor's kid, you know, where you have like a lot of expectations or you have, you know, like I said, small towns, small community. We actually shot my movie Space Waves in Grass Valley. ⁓ you know, with like all the places that I grew up going to in my hometown. We shot at the high school that I went to. ⁓ but I just got into filmmaking through skateboarding and making skate videos and that just really captured my imagination when I was in sixth grade ⁓ onward. And so I just loved I loved being able to film things with like a tiny little digital camera and then watch it back. And it was so mesmerizing, you know, because it's like you're capturing moments in time. And you're preserving memories and you can create something that's greater than the sum of its parts, you know, with juxtaposo juxtaposing clips together, adding the music and really creating a legacy, you know. And so from a young age it was like, ⁓ I'm very ambitious. I wanted to make skate videos and I wanted to make long, you know, big, full length projects with my friends. And every year it was making bigger and better skate videos and we were improving as skateboarders. And I was improving as a filmmaker and getting better equipment, better cameras, and figuring out, you know, text and titles and music and putting in like the falls and the personality points as well as the skateboarding tricks and just the antics. And I had a lot of friends that were not skateboarders, but they loved what I was doing. So they'd be like doing stunts that we would like like my buddy like jumped out of a moving car, you know, and that you know, just dangerous. Fun teenage stuff or jumping off a roof or literally like doing like these frisbee tricks, like throwing the frisbee against the ground and then it bounced up and went through this like I don't know, this like lunch tray thing. And just like all the random crazy stuff, or my buddy jumped off a ⁓ a crane into like this huge ⁓ waterfall. And so, you know, just like all the craziness. you know, that teenage boys get into, and it was like incorporating all that into skate videos. And I was loving film. ⁓ and then I think at the end of high school I decided to go do it's called Y Wham Calling All Skaters. So YWAM is youth with a mission. So that's ⁓ just a Christian ministry. And there was like a skateboarding version ⁓ that That was started. And so I did that. I spent three months in LA and then three months in China. And so we were skating, we were sharing the gospel at skate parks. I was making videos, documenting our journey. and so that was really special, that was really formative for me. And then at a certain point, I wanted to do more with film. And so after that, after my gap year, I went to Biola University. And I did the film program there and learned much more about cinema and actually telling stories and developing my voice as a writer and as a director.

speaker-0: Nice, yeah, there's there's a lot of threads I want to pull there. ⁓ and so starting off with your experience with ⁓ calling all skaters, ⁓ first of all, have you retained any Chinese? Did you learn any Chinese?

speaker-1: ⁓ nihao, which is hello. Shit. Or d Do Xiao Chen, like how much is this? That's all I remember.

speaker-0: Yeah, I I I took three years of Chinese in high school and retained three words and the numbers. ⁓ it's a very difficult language. But ⁓ yeah. With your experience with YWAM and calling all skaters, you had the opportunity to make ⁓ basically a feature length docum documentary of that experience of, you know, a a skate video turned into a whole whole film, ⁓ which I got to watch recently and I really loved it. I loved the The nostalgic vibe of it with the the low res cameras. I love seeing just like a bunch of these rowdy dudes getting wild skating and then you know ministering to other people. ⁓ what what were some lessons that you took away from from being in that ministry, both on the film side and and your spiritual life? What takeaways still resound with you now? Thanks for being an early listener of the Creative Chapel podcast. As a new show, it means so much that you're here. Please like, subscribe, and download our episodes to keep the momentum going. And share it with a friend who could use encouragement in their creative journey. Alright, back to the show.

speaker-1: Yeah. So there was there was a lot. I mean, it was really good for me just as a young man to go out and adventure and you know, part of growing up in a really small town is like we skated everywhere. We that was our that was our version of adventuring was like finding cool skate spots and just kind of looking around all the the town and the neighboring towns, but At 18 years old, you're just itching for an adventure and you're like, I want to go far away and I want to go, you know, live this adventure. And I saw, I saw ⁓ The Secret Life of Walter Mitty, my senior year of high school. And that was like so inspiring. Cause I'm like, yeah, dude, go on the adventure. And so ⁓ I was so excited for it. I went. ⁓ and I think it was much harder than I thought it would be because you're in a new place with new people. You know, every few nights you're staying in a different church or a different person's floor or whatever. And so just constantly on the move. It was physically exhausting, but at the same time I was with really good people, all people that love the Lord, people that inspired me and my faith to be more bold, learned a lot about intercession and like praying for the people we are ministering to, learned about being bold and just sharing the gospel with people, praying with people in public, ⁓ you know, things like that. And then going to China was exceptionally difficult because I was injured. So I really sprained my ankle very badly, like midway through the trip. So for a six month program, I was not able to skate for about half of that time for three months in the middle. And that was really tough because I love skating and like you're going and then you can't skate and everyone else is skating and there's so many spots that I want to try stuff on and like I'm injured and you know, you can't properly heal when it's like you're you're skating around every day or sometimes we you know, traveling, it's like you're walking a ton and you're going. So I didn't properly heal because I just couldn't really. And so I had an ankle brace and That was really tough because then I was struggling a lot with purpose of like, okay, well, what am I doing here? Like I can't I can't really skate. I can't speak the Chinese language. Like and so I still found a lot of purpose in like, okay, it doesn't have to be about me. I can take a backseat. I can really focus on filming everyone else. as as bittersweet as that was, 'cause I'm like, I want to get in the mix here. Yeah. And thankfully I was able to at you know, the beginning of the trip and towards the end of the trip. But yeah, that was that was really tough. ⁓ and also, like I said, not knowing the language. I also think, you know, there's a real beauty in like ministering to people from other cultures and you know, the gospel is for everyone, obviously. But I also feel like at that time I was really really developing my own patriotism for America and just like loving because I was homesick, man. I was like Dude, I love America, you know, and so that was really building in me. And so that was cool too. Like when I finally got back to the States, I'm like, ⁓ I just I appreciated it so much more and it's so much more free. And, you know, spreading the gospel in China too is very dangerous and there's real threats there and you know, communist regime and all that. So I think I got to think a lot about that. ⁓ and just my home and how I love I love my home. And also I think during the trip I was reading the word a lot because at night, you know, we'd go out to the plaza and I couldn't really skate, so I would just bring my Bible and I'd be reading the word. And there was a verse that I came across in First John. I wanna pull it up here, which is first John four nineteen through twenty one. It says, We love because he first loved us. If anyone says, I love God and hates his brother, he is a liar, for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen, and this commandment we have from him whoever loves God must also love his brother. And so at that point I had a big falling out with ⁓ his name is Roman. So Roman and I were very close all through junior high and high school, and he was the guy that I was making skate videos with. We were both very passionate about passionate about spreading the gospel through our skate videos back in high school, and our lives went on separate paths. And he was initially gonna do calling all skaters with me, and his life took a different trajectory. He was not as into skateboarding anymore, ⁓ you know, senior year. And, you know, he had a girlfriend and his priorities changed and he went to college instead. And we just had a pretty messy falling out. We didn't really know how to communicate our feelings and things like that. And like we both just had a really tough time ⁓ accepting that we were on different life paths. And so that led to a lot of, you know, pain, a lot of feelings of betrayal, a lot of just like selfishness and me just thinking about like, ⁓ he betrayed me and I'm heartbroken and, you know, and just like when reality kind of crushes the expectations that you had for a life, you know, or things are different than you thought they would be. So that was really tough. And I think there was a lot of resentment there. And so reading that verse in China, I'm like, okay, I really need to let this go. I need to like, because I'm, you know, I'm a Christian and yet I'm catching myself hating my brother in Christ, you know, and I don't That should not be, you know, and we don't have a right as Christians to withhold forgiveness from somebody, you know, because he forgave us. And so it's like that parable of the unforgiving servant. That's a really haunting parable in the Bible. And so if you don't forgive somebody, it's like you don't understand God's forgiveness for you. Yeah. And you're not the judge, you know, you you are the servant. So I just had to really repent of that. I had to pray through a lot of that. And I think at that point, that was kind of the very beginnings of Space Waves, because my feature film that I ended up writing ⁓ a couple years later was all about that friendship that I had with Roman and how ⁓ life took us in different directions and just kind of the messiness of growing up. And so Space Waves, the feature film, is about ⁓ these two podcasters in a small town of Grass Valley, and their motto is in a town where nothing happens, we gotta make our own adventures. And so kind of the plot of the movie is that the first half is a comedy, and the second half is more of a drama. And so the first half being just fun and adventures and all the dreams for the future and trying to get their podcast to the number one spot on iTunes, and then the second half is life taking a new shape and their paths diverging and Marvin, the main character, dealing with that bitterness, dealing with that resentment, and you know, still by the end finding out that, you know, although times change, friendship and adventure can still be found in every season of life. So Space Waves is that story of forgiveness and kind of what I went through. And so it was very inspired by personal life experience. ⁓ And it's really cool too because Roman and I are friends again. And I I actually had him on the podcast. ⁓ and we did like kind of a open air therapy session where we talked all about our friendship history, all the ups and downs where I was coming from, where he was coming from. And he loves the movie. He loves space waves. He thinks it's great. Nice. So it it's it's really cool how God redeemed that, and it's amazing what God can do. When you let go of bitterness and you pray for forgiveness. So that's really cool. If anyone wants to check that out, that's on my podcast as well.

speaker-0: Yeah, it's awesome. I I've known the story of and inspiration for space waves, but I had yet to hear about ⁓ your reconnection with with Roman, so that's really cool to hear. and so you started the process for Space Waves while at Biola. how was your experience at Biola? I went to I went to a Christian university first for the first two years of college and then it was great, got a lot of friendships, ⁓ it was I grew a ton spiritually. I was able to see their film program within that amount of time, it was just like I don't see me going to where I want to go here by gaining by going here. So I transferred to a a Christian film school in Michigan that is now closed. ⁓ and that was a completely different experience of like I grew in the areas that I needed to grow in in film making, but the critical thinking side I think was pretty lacking. ⁓ and spiritually it was all on me basically. ⁓ which again was just a different area of spiritual growth and a different ⁓ muscle deflex when there's no community around you really and lots of lone loneliness in that season. So I'm curious to your season at Biola. 'cause Biola's a pretty well renowned university. Is it a university college? I don't even know. But guy I guess

speaker-1: It's a university. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, my experience at Biola was really solid overall. I think the best thing about Biola was the friendships and the connections, and I have lifelong friends to this day from there. So I really valued that. ⁓ and just being able to learn the craft of filmmaking there and just kind of get get together my ragtag crew of friends and we were never like, you know, top of our class or whatever. It was just like, hey, I had a dream. I had a passion. I had a movie that I wanted to make. And I was tired of making short films. And I was so ambitious. And I'm like, you know, short films aren't gonna go anywhere. And I want to make a movie. And we have all the resources. We have the film school equipment and we have people that are ⁓ maybe not maybe not top of their class, but they're passionate and they're good and they aren't, you know, they aren't getting the time of day that I think, you know, I don't I don't I think we all wanted to make a feature and I was just the crazy dreamer that was like, well let's do it then. And like, you know, a lot of the film school teachers are like, No, don't do it. We've seen this before, you know, but like you're young and naive and you're like, How hard could it be? Let's just go do it, you know? And So I worked with a really great crew. Like Connor was an incredible cinematographer. Becca, amazing first AC, and Andrew Bear, great producer. Alex Volman, incredible at editing. And so, you know, and then my sister was a production designer, and then we had different help for a few other positions. ⁓ but it was very much like, dude, it was Avengers Assemble. It was like anyone that wants to work on this, like, and we had probably a crew of like Twenty people and then of course half of them dropped out before production because it's a big commitment and a lot of people have the dream of it, but they don't actually want to follow through with all of the work that it entails. So the people that stuck with it and the people that we did have on the crew are absolute legends.

speaker-0: Nice. Yeah, I I feel like ⁓ film school has a way of of showing you a lot of people who have a lot of ideas, but then once you're out of school, ⁓ just reality sets in and life and work, ⁓ and the responsibilities kinda like I mean, I had I had plans to shoot my first feature before thirty, and I'm thirty two now and I'm still gearing up for my first features, so You know, it it they're just the film life is hard, you know. ⁓ and I think ⁓ it's super inspiring that you guys just went for it. ⁓ and he made a great film. Like he it's a a great ⁓ feature length film, great cast, great great aesthetic and look and soundtrack. and so we're we're getting there. I'm I'm purposely leaving spacewaves towards the end a little bit. ⁓ And so from your experience with ⁓ Biola, with your experience at YWAM, ⁓ for the the young person that is at the crossroads of life who has choices before them, ⁓ what what would your advice be if film school or YWAM is on their radar or or some exciting adventure ⁓ versus you know, maybe just doing the the status quo, going to college, doing doing whatever ha makes their parents happy? What advice would you have for For a young person out there that's at that crossroads. Well

speaker-1: One, I don't know if there is a status quo anymore. Like the world is changing so fast. And part of the frustration with like going to university was, you know, ⁓ get good grades, go to a good university, you'll get a good job. And I'm like, okay, sweet. Like I'm on board. And then, you know, that didn't happen. And it's like now I still have all this debt from university. And I'm glad that it was worth it for me. And I've been making you know, good headway on those payments and and all of that. But I just grieve all those people that went to college and then they have all this debt and then they're not even in the field that they studied for, you know? And so that's brutal. And thankfully I don't have any regrets about Biola because I loved it and it was such a good experience. But I just think, ⁓ man, like I'm glad it was worth it because there's a lot of people, like I said, who are not in the field that they studied for and then they have all this debt. So it's a big decision. I don't think they fully communicate that, like just just how much debt you're gonna have if you go to college or go to a university. ⁓ and you don't really know what you're signing up for at 18. You're like, ⁓ yeah, that sounds good. You know, I'll pay off the debt. I'll get a good job. And a lot of times life doesn't, you know, go according to plans. So that's that's a tough part and that's something you have to be ready for. So I would say You know, like when I have my own kids one day, I'm gonna caution strongly caution with with college or university. Like it's gotta be something that you are really dead set on. And, you know, don't just go and spend all this money if you're like, ⁓ maybe I'll do this. So like know what you're getting into. So be wise with that. ⁓ as far as ministry, I would definitely recommend that just because that's always a good thing to do. And like you said, it It really grows you as a person spiritually, it helps others, you know, that's very invaluable. ⁓ but I would just say a little caution with ⁓ with getting into big debts.

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, I second that caution and I'm unfortunately am less optimistic about it these days. But ⁓ kind of like switching gears into what you're doing currently, with your with your podcast, the Spencer White White Out Podcast. ⁓ what was kind of like the inspiration for getting that going? Obviously you made spacewaves, which is about podcasters. and it seems like I was trying to see look back at your catalog of when you might have started, but it seems like you might have s even started before what's on YouTube. ⁓ so how to got how to get started, what was your inspiration and and just tell us about it mm what your experiences.

speaker-1: Yeah, I mean I started it about five years ago. I I released a couple Ep Zero, Ep Zero Zero, and Ep Zero Zero Zero. Those were like I wanted to get those out before like I did an official launch or whatever. But yeah, I mean I've been doing it for about five years. I've loved it. ⁓ you read the tagline at the beginning about it's about collecting experiences as badges, memories as treasures, stories as wealth. And so really it's a personal ⁓ podcast all about storytelling, capturing life, capturing funny stories, big victories, you know, testimonies, ⁓ interviewing bands, interviewing filmmakers. It's self-branded, so it's the Spencer Whiteout Podcast. I can talk to whoever about whatever. So it's just me talking to mostly my friends and my family, and then other artists and creatives that I look up to. So it's been really fun. I would say the majority of it is a comedy show. And I've yet to get you on. We were trying to do that when I was in SoCal, but it's still on my to-do list, man. I'm really looking forward to ⁓ talking with you on the podcast eventually because Chris Mack has got some really funny and crazy stories. ⁓ But yeah, I mean the inspiration was kind of I made space waves about these podcasters telling funny stories and just sharing their life. And I was always like, yeah, that would be cool, you know, but I don't want I don't want it to turn out the same way that it did for the characters in space waves where one person is more passionate than the other. ⁓ I don't want a co-host who's not going to be as invested as I am. And then it dawned on me, ⁓ it can be self-branded. It can just be me. And then I'll have on different friends. And I have certain friends that come on a lot, you know, and then other friends that are just on for a couple one or two episodes. And so that was a really fun way to. To just be able to talk to whoever and to be able to control it myself. ⁓ and it's it's all on me, you know, so it's no other pressure. I mean, you know, with the creative chapel, it's like if you had a co-host, it might be like a clash of visions or whatever. So there is a beauty in being able to have ownership and do a podcast yourself and take it in any direction that you want.

speaker-0: Yeah, definitely. That was a big point in in my journey into Creative Chapel and just starting a podcast was thinking about like you know, it'd be really great to have a co host to to bounce ideas off of when it's hard to get a guest. Like I I did two solo episodes just recently, ⁓ and it was kind of a struggle for me 'cause it's so much easier just to have a conversation about a topic versus like just self generating ideas. ⁓ and like being able to like communicate those distinctly And and workshop those live ⁓ is kinda difficult for me. But ⁓ you've got to to talk to some pretty cool guests on your show. ⁓ a personal fave is Michael Felker from the Christian Medical Corps band Convictions, and of course Spencer Fulmar, who's been on the show, and ⁓ the Androll. ⁓ you know, what is what has been the biggest takeaway from a guest that has stuck with you that is like, whoa, talking to this person like

speaker-1: And noem Kroll.

speaker-0: changed the way I think about life. Or anything.

speaker-1: Man, I think there's been a lot of takeaways. I was thinking about this. It's like, man, how much time do we have? Like I've learned so many lessons over the last five years. I would say some of the positive stuff to start. ⁓ just being able to connect with people that I really look up to, like Spencer Fulmar, like Jason Munden, and that episode's gonna come out soon. Nice. ⁓ some of the some of the bands that I really love, like Jake Wolf from Reflections. ⁓ you mentioned Convictions. I've done I've done so many, you know, Noam Kroll, ⁓ another po another filmmaker that I look up to. So just being able to like hear how they think about art and creativity and being able to talk to some of my heroes, some of my inspirations, that's just been so life giving. ⁓ I would say also just being able to make new friendships. So some of the bands or some of the people that I've reached out to and connected with and we did a good podcast or Blythe, who makes really cool sad trap, ambient wave music. Like now we talk pretty regularly about anything and everything, about faith and religion and politics and, you know, so it's like the podcast is a way to connect with people and make new friends. ⁓ and I think it's really good just for For other people too, you know, being interested in them, being able to ask them questions that make them think, be an encouragement to those people. as far as like the comedy show, just being able to bring people together and create really good lasting memories and friendships with people. I've had a lot of friends who are just like, dude, this is so cool, like I wanna keep doing this, or like, you know, that was the highlight of my year or whatever, like. It's just been really special to bring people together that maybe wouldn't have met otherwise. You know, a friend from here and a friend from there. And then we get them together and then they become friends, you know? So those are some of the highlights. I would say some of the the ⁓ the lowlights or some of the learning experiences have been ⁓ Just realizing too that a lot of people treat media as a little bit transactional and maybe you think, ⁓ this is gonna be good for both of us, or we're gonna be friends, or this is going to be helpful for them, and then they never repost it or they ghost you as s after you record and you're like, Hey, I thought this was our thing. We were trying to mutually promote each other, you know, and then and then they just ghost you, you know. So I've definitely had some of those. I've had some where you know, people share things on the podcast, whether it be funny stories, embarrassing stories, or even like testimonies and spiritual things. And then after the fact they go, ⁓ man, I shouldn't have said all that, or my wife is mad at me now, or ⁓ this is gonna now threaten my job possibilities. And like, dude, I have had to work through so much stuff with a lot of people who have changed their mind after the fact. And sometimes it goes well because I'm like, no, you shared this for a reason, especially with testimony stuff. Like this is impacting people, this is helping people. Like I applaud your conviction. I applaud your courage. And I'm not gonna remove this because that would be a disservice. And on top of that, you sign the release form, you know? And so that was another big lesson that we learned on space waves was always getting. your release forms signed in advance so everyone is on the same page and so that nobody can come back to you after the fact and be like, ⁓ I want money for this. I I want compensation or, ⁓ actually I want you to now delete this or edit this. It's like, dude, people need to take responsibility for what they say, what they share or don't share. You know, you need to take responsibility for what you what you say. ⁓ and I'm a good guy. Like I've I've gone back and edited some episodes or removed some things here and there. ⁓ but it's just been a real learning experience with interacting with all these different types of people.

speaker-0: Yeah, it's interesting. I've actually never ⁓ thought about release forms ⁓ for podcasting. And like I I got to work with ⁓ Ruzelon KD, who's a big YouTuber and streamer and the guests that he has on, I don't know. I don't think he's ever talked about having a release format or if he's ever had one. I might have to check with him. but ⁓ yeah, it's it's really interesting. ⁓ something I really appreciate about you and and your podcast and your filmmaking is ⁓ just how authentic you are and I mentioned this in in your intro is that you know from the first time I met you to listening to you on on Show Don't Tell to the more that we've just become friends and had phone calls and just watching space waves and beast mode and watching the ⁓ skate documentary of of the guys with ⁓ sorry I'm spacing on it.

speaker-1: Calling all skaters.

speaker-0: Calling All Skaters. you're you're just authentically you. You've always been you, and I see that from ⁓ Calling All Skaters. I I see that from like I listened to another podcast you were on recently w with a gentleman and talking about filmmaking, and you were talking about your early skate videos of when you were in high school and like just the titles of those. I'm like, ⁓ yeah, that's such like a Spencer title for a skate video. ⁓ and so with that You know, how can creatives create authentically? and and I think this is an opportunity that we can talk about the pressures of of needing to sound Christian and Christian environments, ⁓ or or even just ⁓ you know, what we've kinda talked about personally about like being misunderstood, whether that's in friendships or even as creatives, ⁓ what what helps you stay authentic in your creativity and ⁓ encourages you? And I feel like you kinda even touched on that in just what you mentioned about the some of the The learning curves of podcasting.

speaker-1: Yeah, how can people be authentic? Well, one, it takes courage and it also takes wisdom because there is I mean, I kind of so sometimes I feel like, man, I just don't know any other way. This is how God created me. But, you know, so there is a courage aspect of like, I'm gonna put it all out there, or I'm gonna be bold and share my faith, or I'm gonna share some of these embarrassing details or some of my failures because I know that's gonna help other people. And you know, just c growing up in a place where you get sick of like people trying to put on a front or trying to be more Christian than they are or focusing way too much on the outward behavior and not the heart. So I think that's where some of that comes from. And then the wisdom aspect is knowing when to share, when to speak or when to listen. how much to share, how much to put out there. Some things are too precious and or some things are too personal that like they don't need to be out there. So I think there's a wisdom aspect to it as well.

speaker-0: Yeah, I think that's so important. ⁓ I feel like you know, we whenever you're you're researching how to do media these days and thinking about like podcasting or doing YouTube, you know, the the biggest advice that comes out all the time is like be authentic, be authentically you, which which kind of feels like in a way, like a cop out answer 'cause like I'm trying to learn like the nitty gritty of how to like pop off on the internet sometimes. ⁓ and you're telling me ought to be authentic. ⁓ and I feel like that doesn't exactly let me pop off. But ⁓ but I do feel like there is there's such ⁓ wisdom in just knowing when it when and where to share things, what to share, ⁓ and and going forth with that wisdom that you were talking about of of like, okay, is this is this something that ⁓ is the audience on the other side of this going to be receptive to this? Is this the right person to talk to or or right space to say this thing. So ⁓ I think that's it's really important. And something that I feel like people don't really touch on. ⁓ and so within your your journey as a creative, ⁓ and you you talked about wanting to be bold for your faith, was there a moment you felt convicted to be more overt with your faith?

speaker-1: Mm. So I I think I want to say one more thing, ⁓ just kind of on that previous topic, which is cancel culture, right? So that I think is another thing really worth talking about because I think what fueled a lot of my boldness and stuff, I mean, from a young age it was always, ⁓ I want to share the gospel ⁓ in skateboarding, or I want to make Christian films that are not afraid to go to these dark places, or With the podcast, I want to share vulnerable parts of testimony because it's gonna help other people. And it's tough because a lot of people have this fear because we lived through it. There was gnarly, gnarly cancel culture and censorship and this chilling effect of fear of like, even from Christians, where it's like, ⁓ well, I don't want to share too much of this because if I'm a Christian and I share my testimony and I talk about you know, how I used to, you know, be addicted to this, or I fell short in this way or that. It's like, ⁓ well now the mob is gonna come after me, or even saying something like, ⁓ yeah, I'm pro life, I'm against abortion, or I'm pro traditional marriage. You know, it's like you're gonna get called all these names, or if you're a little too patriotic, you know, they're gonna attack that or whatever the case. And so it's tough because that fear seeps into Christianity And I've seen it with a lot of my brothers. And, you know, part of my mindset is like I just kind of swing the pendulum to the other side. I'm like, no, don't be afraid. God has not given us a spirit of fear. And so we're gonna put it all out there, you know? And so that comes back to that wisdom part that I was talking about where it's like, we don't want to live in fear. We don't wanna be afraid of cancel culture. We have to get over the name calling, because if somebody can just call you a name and shut you down and and ruin your witness, it's like What good is that? You know, we have to be willing to take those arrows. And so people like Spencer Fulmar is a real trailblazer and he's inspired us so much because, you know, he shared that story on my podcast and probably yours as well about all of the hate emails coming from Christians who were upset that he had some strong language in a film that's about ⁓ addiction and child abuse and all of this stuff. And then people were so concerned about, ⁓ well, you said a bad word in your movie. And it's like you have all these Christians dogpiling on somebody that's trying to seek and save the lost, you know. So I just have gotten so frustrated by that hypocrisy that the kind of whitewashed tombs, you know, where a lot of Christians care so much about the outward appearance and not about the heart. And so You know, I just get so tired of it and that's something I'm working on because yeah, we don't want to just go guns blazing and just put out every controversial belief we have and just put it all out there like so we have to be wise as serpents, innocent as doves. And that's a really that's a really tricky thing to navigate. So I just wanted to to mention that as well and encourage people listening to not have that spirit of fear, but But a spirit of power, love and self control.

speaker-0: Yeah, definitely. I definitely appreciate that 'cause I think there's so much in the creative journey of you know, wanting to express your convictions, ⁓ but worrying about being the odd man out with them. ⁓ and and thinking about ⁓ how that could affect ⁓ people's perception of you, if they understand you or or don't understand you. ⁓ I think

speaker-1: Or just the the career the Hollywood career system is so anti Christian. Yeah. So it's like, ⁓ is this gonna limit my career prospects and all of that stuff? And it's like, dude, we live for Christ and we're gonna let the chips fall where they may and God's gonna provide for us regardless. And we just have to become more disagreeable as Christians. That doesn't mean combative or just, you know, popping off and hating everyone, but it's like you have to be willing to be hated because and that's really tough. And Jesus said that, do not be surprised when the world hates you. It hated me first. So if you're a Christian and you're hated, I think you're in good company.

speaker-0: And so with ⁓ you know the boldness that you have, ⁓ kinda like retra tracking back to that question of, you know, was there a time that that wasn't the case that you kinda like felt like you had to grow into being more overt about your faith? I mean, it sounds like from a young age with with skateboarding in high school, you were kind of always about it, but was there a point leading up to that that you were like, you know, I think I should be more overt with with what I believe?

speaker-1: Well, it's funny because I was thinking about this and I think at the very beginning, you know, in junior high, it was always just, ⁓ we're just making skate videos and this is fun. And then when I got into high school and I started really understanding my faith and seeking the Lord on my own, that's when I was like, ⁓ well, then I need to put my faith into skateboarding videos. And if I don't, like this is a missed opportunity. And like we went really hard at the beginning, you know. ⁓ next level was all about taking up skateboarding to the next level and taking up serving God to the next level. And so it was very overt with sharing testimonies and putting scripture everywhere. And it was like I look back and there was times where I like couldn't even watch it because I was like, this is so cringe. Like this is this is it was ridiculous how how much we put it in there. And I was like d like we would do a trick and then roll up to the camera and say a Bible verse and I'm like Like I think I think it was very pure and very good. But then as high school went on and as I grew up and stuff, I was kind of like, okay, what's a way to do this a little more tactfully? Not being afraid of being laughed out of the skate park or whatever, but like how do you reach different types of people? And so I think then I kind of swung to the other side where it was like, well, can I be less overt about my faith? And it's not like, ⁓ we're trying to hide this, but it's more like, can you still share the gospel in a way that's not going to instantly turn people off and be like, ⁓ these, you know, cringy Jesus freaks, you know, there's a place for that too. And I think there's just different audiences. And so with going to Biola and learning film and learning how to Share your faith in a way that's not, you know, God's not dead and just like caricatures of, you know, we have such a bad reputation for our Christian films because they put the message first and it's just like a video sermon, and the craft is nowhere to be found. And so I think a big learning curve for me was being able to learn, okay, how can we share the gospel through these stories that are touching on something very true but are not. banging you over the head with with Bible verses every step of the way. And how can we make films that are going to speak to those people that would never watch God's Not Dead, but that would watch Book of Eli or Hacksaw Ridge or The Patriot or Passion of the Christ or whatever. Like we need to be able to think a little bigger and get better at our craft. And so that we're able to share the gospel and share these true stories that are going to resonate on a deep level. without turning people off. And again, every project is gonna be different. I kind of see space waves as like, yeah, it's a coming of age comedy drama. A lot of people would watch it and they wouldn't think, ⁓ this is a Christian film. But that's because it was just you know, it was just focused on real life and our experiences and it's pretty tame, you know. There's some innuendos and, you know, some crude humor, but it's pretty tame All things considered, and there is an undercurrent, there is a subtext and a message of forgiveness. And you see what happens when a character just holds on to bitterness and unforgiveness, and then you see them come out of that and how forgiveness is the better road. And so that's a that's a movie that I think is Christian, that maybe goes a little bit under the radar and is able to impact a certain audience. And then the stuff that I'm writing now is much more overtly Christian. Even including Bible verses and including characters struggling with faith, but it also has more R-rated content with you know, substance abuse and sexuality and navigating crises of faith, crises of faith and all that stuff. So I think there's a place for both of it. And it's hard because like we've talked about, sometimes Other Christians or naysayers are gonna be like, ⁓ well, this isn't Christian enough, or then they go, ⁓ well, this is too Christian, or this is has too much dark content. But that's why we look up to people like Fulmar and Munden and all the people at Hard Faith. And I loved your episode with Nathan Presley, where it's like we are going into these places that a lot of Christians have not gone into before, and it's hard because we're going to be misunderstood. But we're still seeking the lost and we're making we're making films that are still sharing the gospel in a new way. And there's so much potential with with film and with this artistic medium that we both love.

speaker-0: If you're someone who loves apparel that shows your creative side while sharing your faith, I've just the thing for you. Our sponsor, the Printing Ox, has hooked us up with some t-shirts I designed that we're planning to launch later this summer. If you want to support the show, go ahead and pre-order one of the shirts. It has the Creative Chapel logo on the front, and on the back it says, You were made to create, with the scripture of Revelation 4.11 underneath. You might even recognize the design from our backdrop here at the studio. If you'd like to pre-order a shirt, visit the link in our description. And if you have any t shirt needs for your church, business, or event, make sure to hit up my buddy Forrest at the PrintingOx. He does everything with quality and exemplifies the Creative Chapel spirit. Visit his link in the description as well. Alright, back to the show. I think all of that ⁓ is a great transition into talking more about space waves. So why don't you tell me in the audience how to make our first feature length? film. Let me let me pick your brain about your process, about how you started it, ⁓ all the the writing, the funding, the assembling of the team, the casting, you know what what experiences have like in graded themselves into your memory with space waves? That's like this is ⁓ these are things that first time filmmakers haven't thought about.

speaker-1: Well, you know, there's like the practical things like utilize your resources, ⁓ whether that be equipment, crew, locations that you have that you grew up with, friends, family asking for favors, ⁓ keeping the crew and the equipment pretty minimal, ⁓ being able to punch above your weight class with things like that, being able to write the movie three times, you know, you write it in screenplay. You write it again on set, you know, because things change and you just have to be flexible and adapt and ⁓ let the best idea win. And then you write it again in the editing room and you say, okay, this is what we have. How do we make this the best that it can be? And so it's always a constant ⁓ process of revision and refining, really. And so another thing I would say is don't Don't have an ego, you know, because the best idea might not come from you. It might come from an actor, might come from a PA. as Noam Kroll says, be stubborn on the vision but flexible with the details. So, you know, it's like if somebody has a better idea than me, great. Like let's do it. You know, it's still gonna be your name on the as, you know, the director at the end of the day, and you wanna shepherd that responsibility well and you wanna create your Treat your crew well. But yeah, just be open to new ideas and new ways of telling the story. And if you have the right people and the right crew that love what love what they're doing and love the story, yeah, you should be open to that.

speaker-0: You did something really cool with space waves that I'm definitely going to to implement in the future, ⁓ and that you had a a prayer group kind of ready to go as you started the process. ⁓ and so I'd love to hear more about the inception of that idea, what what was your vision for that prayer group and and if you had any like testimonies from that.

speaker-1: Yeah, I did not have a vision for that. That was all of our parents who were just like, ⁓ yay, we love this. We're so happy for you. We're gonna pray for you. And we're like, All right, we're not gonna say no to prayer. And so they just totally started that up. You know, my parents, my grandparents, and then a lot of the other families from the people that we had at Biola, they were all, you know, strong believers. And so yeah, they faithfully prayed for us. I think every Tuesday night for multiple years and they became friends, you know, because of that. And so that was like a cool community for them and a really special ⁓ s ⁓ spiritual support and backbone for us. You know, they prayed for us with finding the money and finding finances. A few of them invested in our project or just gave us donations and wanted to help any way that they could. ⁓ but yeah, prayer was was so instrumental and monumental ⁓ because there was so many challenges from the picture vehicle breaking down, ⁓ actors quitting like during production, like side characters and stuff, and and ⁓ the space tower that we had being demolished and then us having to search for nine months to find another tower. ⁓ and the list just goes on and on and on, like a main hard drive failure and Dude, we needed those prayers and I'm so thankful that ⁓ they helped us get across the finish line.

speaker-0: Yeah, that's awesome. And I I really love that you know, just like you said, a community. This th that's like a big community aspect that I feel like, you know, it's a very rare and probably only something that you would see on a on a Christian set, you know, ⁓ or a Christian production. And so now that Space Waves has been out for a while, ⁓ what are things that you look back on that you're proud of and what are things that you wish could have gone differently?

speaker-1: Yeah, I would say the things I'm proud of is just one, the crew and people that gave so much of their time and energy. ⁓ that was really special. Two, I'm just glad we did it at a young age and being extremely ambitious and totally naive of how long it would take, how much money it would take, how much investment it would take. ⁓ I'm so glad that we stuck through it and ⁓ saw it through to completion. I'm proud of I'm proud of the the voice that comes through it, you know, just how personal the story is. I love I love a lot of the shots. Like coming down the hill and pranking Mr. Fallkson or like the long the long one take argument scene in the bedroom. I think there was a few moments of craft that just like really shine through paired with some really good acting. I mean, there's certain things that I You know, as with any art, you know, you look back and you're like, like I just wish I wish this was better. ⁓ whether it be some of the lighting or some of the acting, or we had to ADR certain scenes, or just some of the edits where it's, you know, just everything, dude. It's like, but all in all, I'm so proud of it. I think it came out so much better than any of us anticipated. And that just goes to show, you know, God's faithfulness and like he made it so much better than any of us. dreamed of at the beginning. I'm super proud of the the drone shots around the tower. That was incredible and gorgeous. I love that we were able to get so many incredible artists to either donate their music or for a small fee we got to use their music, ⁓ like Haven and Time Cop and Brooklyn and just all these bands and artists that I loved being able to come alongside and put their music into this film. So those are some of the things.

speaker-0: Yeah, that's awesome. It's always cool when you're able to collaborate with some of your favorite artists, ⁓ and favorite people on the cruise side of of just being able to connect into to one project. This is a question that ⁓ ha has just c come to me. I'm not sure how much you're able to talk about it, but I'd love to know just how you went about funding for for the film and how resources financially came in.

speaker-1: Yeah, so I think the budget was probably around fifty grand when everything was said and done. That's obviously a very rough estimate, and that does not count all the gas and time and everything else. Cause I mean, at the beginning, I think we did a few Indiegogo and Kickstarter, and those like barely made a thousand or two. So like that was brutal. And we got a lot of donations. We called up Everyone we knew and we just got a bunch of small dollar donations. ⁓ we had a few ⁓ big multi-grand injections from our parents and just different people that wanted to help out or invest. We sold merch, we sold shirts, ⁓ things like that. And then mostly it was just Andrew, the producer and I paying for it ourselves out of pocket. And so that's also partly why it took so long is because you know, we'd save up a few grand working our minimum wage jobs out of college. being totally underemployed. ⁓ and then we would and then we would just, you know, spend a few grand on sound design and then we'd work another six months and save up and spend an a few grand on color and then scoring and, you know, the list goes on. Or or even like an entertainment lawyer or the fee is to get it on these platforms. So it took five years, about fifty grand, would have been done a lot faster if we had the money. But yeah, we just really invested a lot of our time and a lot of our own money into it. And yeah, it's cool because it's indie and we own it for the rest of our lives, and it's a asset that can that can generate passive income for the rest of our lives. And it has made money. It has not made, you know, fifty grand back, but it's made multiple thousands of dollars over the years, and it's like that's just gonna continue. And it really continues if You stay active and you keep making films and then people that found you through movie three go back and see movie one. Yeah. And the people that were a part of movie one stick along for the ride and check out your future work. And so that's kind of the mindset that I have about it now.

speaker-0: Yeah, that's great, ⁓ 'cause it connects me very well to our next question in that, you know, as we kinda like get near to the end of the show, I just wanted to hear about your concept for building a an interconnected cinematic universe. You know, obviously that's kind of a big thing right now with with especially superhero films, but we you know, we saw the dark universe try to take off. ⁓ but I don't know if we've really seen it on a on indie level, really. so I'm curious to hear more about that. I haven't really heard this idea from you. So I'm I'm interested.

speaker-1: Yeah, many have tried and failed. It's yeah. It's a very again, ambitious idea. And I love it, man. I I'm committed to this. This idea has just gotten more intense and more fleshed out over the years. I think, you know, Marvel is the only one that's successfully done it. And of course they did it with, you know, hundreds of Billions of dollars or whatever and all this stuff. But what if you took that concept and you applied it to indie movies, you know, and to dramas? And a lot of people have tried to say, ⁓ well, Tarantino's movies are all connected because they share a last name or because there's this Easter egg and and then ⁓ you know, but it's like, dude, Samuel L. Jackson is playing five different characters. It's not a connected universe. You're grasping at straws, but people love connectivity. And Houston Howard talks about this as like one of the most exciting things for fans, if they follow your work, is that connectivity, is the Easter eggs, is the crossovers, is how certain things relate to each other. And so there is a real audience there and there is a desire for that. And it's it's so exciting. Like you look at the Pixar theory, that's another one where people go, ⁓ man, it's all connected and that that's really fun. And like the fans are just Chomping at the bit for stuff like that. And I love it. Like I was captivated by that. I saw that video like 12 or 15 years ago, whenever it was, and I was like, this is mind-blowing. This is so cool. And that makes all of the projects add up to be greater than the sum of their parts. You know, it it adds up to something so much bigger, like this big meta narrative going on. And so as an indie filmmaker and someone who's not currently working in Hollywood, you know, it's like I am a writer and I write my own screenplays. I write my own original stories. I've never really had much desire to write spec screenplays or to work in Hollywood for many reasons. I mean, one being it's very hostile to people like me with ⁓ my faith and my views and all of that stuff, but it's just like Nobody's ever gonna open the door for me in traditional Hollywood. If they did, I'd cross that bridge when we get there. That might be a whole nother conversation. But as far as I know, it's like I'm an indie filmmaker, and that's always been my mindset. It's like nobody's gonna hand you the opportunity. So now what? Are you just gonna give up or are you gonna go find a way to make it happen yourself? So that's what we did with space waves, just bootstrapping it, making a micro budget feature. That'll probably be the case. With my next film and the films after that, ⁓ you know, hopefully we'll get some more investment and we'll be able to make something a little bit bigger budget and have more resources. But all that to say, it's like I like writing original stories. And if I'm writing original stories, can I make them tie together in a bigger way? Can they be set in the same shared world? And so things that I'm doing practically to accomplish that, I've written Two other screenplays that are completed. Two more are in the outline stages. but those screenplays, they share a few characters. Duke Skylander, Tyson Pessner, he definitely will return. ⁓ but they share some characters, they share some plot points, ⁓ they share Easter eggs like BPBZ or BPB News is the ⁓ the news station that's gonna appear in all the films. ⁓ We have these ongoing gag gags and jokes about where's Ruth. It's like this missing person that nobody knows about. And you'll see that in like, you know, you'll see that in the newspaper in the newspaper, you'll hear it on the radio. things like repeating lines, repeating lines like bloodbath, that was an inside joke. So you're basically you're creating culture by including Easter eggs and shared characters and And as the films go on, it rewards rewatches. It rewards the fans that have been with you from the beginning and it creates a conversation. It's like, ⁓ yeah, this side character in this scene is actually now a prominent main character in this movie, or this happened back then and that affected this in another movie. And so it's a really cool way to connect your films together and to Build it out, really.

speaker-0: Yeah, that's awesome. And being able to to think ahead, ⁓ and think about elements of like where there can be crossover is really cool and really exciting.

speaker-1: Well, and one more thing about that too, is I like to think of it like this. I explained it to my buddy Ray kind of like this. I said, All right, here's a list of all my favorite films. So I'll just read off a few of them right now. It's a Wonderful Life, Back to the Future, Napoleon Dynamite, American Beauty, Blade Runner 2049. Avengers Endgame, Spider-Man, Ready Player One, Drive, Edward Scissor Hands, Donnie Darko, Secret Life of Walter Mitty. Those are all great movies. Some of my favorites across multiple genres. So what if what if it was the case that the same director directed all of those films? How crazy would that be? You know, hit after hit and different genres, and each movie has to stand on its own and has to be good on its own. But then what if The same director did all of those films and and they were all set in the same universe. And it was it's just like the most mind-blowing thing. Like imagine, you know, Rex from Napoleon Dynamite appearing in Donnie Darko, or Lester from American Beauty, you know, appearing in one of these other films in Drive or whatever. It's like not all of those might work, but some of them really would would work. And just having shared characters and plot points that cross over, I just think that would be the coolest thing. And as a film indie filmmaker, there's a real opportunity to do that. And I love ownership and, you know, having final cut. And that's something I really believe in and writing your own stories. And so I just think there's so much potential there and it's something that really excites me.

speaker-0: Yeah, definitely. And I I think that's something that, ⁓ I feel like T V has pulled that off decently. Well like I I can remember when like Brooklyn nine nine and New Girl had like a random crossover, ⁓ and it's like, ⁓ like that's crazy though. This is these are I don't even know if it was the same network, but it's like shows that I wouldn't think would have any relatability. One being in New York, one being in LA I think, ⁓ and somehow they crossed over. ⁓ but yeah, thinking about that and and how ⁓ A writer and director can can implement that into their work so there's even more connective tissue for fans is a great idea. Definitely. And so ⁓ as we wrap up the show, ⁓ I'm I always ask our our guest a ⁓ question, and so that is what is inspiring you right now? What what are you taking in that's ⁓ bringing inspiration for you? And ⁓ and then I'm gonna try a new question with you, ⁓ and that is who would you like to see on Creative Chapel? So I'll let you answer the first one.

speaker-1: Well, I'll do the second one first. Okay, great. Jason Munden, dude. You gotta get Jason Munden on Creative Chapel.

speaker-0: Yeah, Jason's great. I definitely have to reach out to him and and put him on the show.

speaker-1: Yeah. As far as what's inspiring me right now, mmm, that's always a big question. There's so many things I could list. I really get inspired by music for ⁓ for writing and for cinema and for movies. So I'll do some music first. ⁓ I'm really loving Reflections new album, crazy, progressive, metal core, deathcore, insanity. I love it. ⁓ I really love I really love this band called Nightly, Joanne, Loving the Midnight. Those are all very like 80s kind of synthwave rock bands. So I'm loving that. ⁓ as far as movies and TV and things like that, I think well, I just rewatched the social network and that was Incredible. Yeah. So good from a craft perspective. It's just it's just amazing. So I love that one. ⁓ I've been reading a few books as well. ⁓ Houston Howard's super story, kind of talking about building a big enough story that can cross over into multiple mediums, you know, like a transmedia project. And I'm taking some of those principles ⁓ into my own WCU White Out Cinematic Universe. ⁓ I've been reading some film books. ⁓ Blake Snyder, I'm reading the Save the Cat Strikes Back. Yeah. Just some just some casual reading. ⁓ as far as as far as faith stuff, ⁓ I'm reading a book called Experience Jesus Really, by John Eldridge. That's been really good. and I've been listening to American Glory, a podcast by NXR and Dale Partridge. So Those are I think some of the inspirations right now. what about yourself, Chris?

speaker-0: Right now it's a little hard ⁓ because baby life. ⁓ so I I haven't seen a lot of movies lately ⁓ in the theater, which I'm really bummed about not seeing Spider-Man and the Odyssey right now. but yeah. There are shows that we're watching that I mean my wife are watching that I don't really know are ⁓ necessarily inspiring me. But right now it's It's mixing worlds of like navigating digital YouTube podcast space and finding inspiration for that as well as just film, film life, ⁓ and getting Sons of Thunder off the ground. So for me, ⁓ there's a book I'm reading called ⁓ I'm spacing on the name. Buying and selling the souls of our children, which is a book by someone I really appreciate. His name is John Paul Jackson. He specializes in like prophetic ministry and prophecy and things like that. And so I really trust him, but this book is about how Pokemon is demonic. And so that is I'm like, you know, typically John Paul Jackson has like all my support. ⁓ and I'm I'm not even into Pokemon like that.

speaker-1: Right. But that's a bridge too far for you.

speaker-0: It's not too far. I'm just interested. I'm I'm skeptical of that. ⁓ 'cause just in growing in media literacy and thinking about like, you know, when the Exorcist came out, everyone thought that the Exorcist movie was like actually demonizing people. And I'm like, okay, well maybe I'm curious to that. and I mean maybe Pokemon can do that. ⁓ and so I'm interested into his arguments. ⁓ So far I have not found them very compelling. There have been like maybe one or two. I'm also not too far into the book. ⁓ but ⁓ yeah, I'm not I'm not r I'm never ruling it out. There is obviously a mental and a spiritual aspect of what we consume. So I'm not going to completely like just write off the idea. ⁓ but I'm interested into the arguments and if they're compelling to me. So that's what I'm I'm reading right now, and I do want to make a YouTube video about that, about the the spiritual implications of what we consume. ⁓ so that is kinda inspiring me, but it's kinda that's a project down the road that ⁓ I need to do more study around. So

speaker-1: Well, as long as he doesn't come after Yu Gi ⁓ we'll be okay.

speaker-0: I think he's already named it. It's like Digimon ⁓ maybe even Beyblades. ⁓ Pokemon. ⁓

speaker-1: what's next? Bionicle and Halo? Is he's he's killing all our childhood joys.

speaker-0: Yeah, mostly mostly it's focused on Pokemon. So there's even like a Pokemon index of like characters. ⁓

speaker-1: Chris, I thought of a couple not I I thought of a couple more things. One that inspired me. Backrooms. I was really inspired by backrooms and I'm really looking forward to A twenty four prime time. Yeah. So it's I am stoked for those. Yeah.

speaker-0: Prime time looks absolutely wild.

speaker-1: And another ⁓ person that you should have on is my buddy Ryder. He's got a YouTube channel called Ryder the Omniscient. Dude and I w

speaker-0: Rider the Omniscient. That's crazy.

speaker-1: Dude, he's so good. He's one of my good friends. ⁓ and he just makes incredible stuff about Christians engaging with AI. He does Christian video essays about the backrooms, about Passion of the Christ, about It's a Wonderful Life. ⁓ all his work is incredible, just about how we as Christians consume media and art and how we engage with it and what's a good theological backbone and worldview for us as Christian filmmakers.

speaker-0: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I've consumed his content before and and I follow his stuff. ⁓ he's currently like producing a a horror short film that ⁓ they're trying to to get funding for, a little bit more funding, so I'm trying to to support that. ⁓ but

speaker-1: Another Christian horror guy, ⁓ Dylan Vibbert. I don't know if you've heard of him, but he's another good guy that I had on my podcast and he's all about, you know, Christian horror and suspense and you know, pretty controversial, but they got their heart in the right place and he's another good one. Yeah.

speaker-0: Dude, I I was literally just thinking about how to collab with Ryder and another Christian film YouTuber guy that I follow to do like an interconnected video series that we all like tackle one subject from a different perspective. ⁓ 'cause some other like YouTubers have done that in the past. I've really liked that. And being able to like bounce from channel to channel and see their perspective. So yeah, you'll have to connect me with Ryder. I don't know if you've I know you have your your

speaker-1: It will.

speaker-0: Your podcast on YouTube. ⁓ I wonder if we can get you to do a ⁓ a full like video video essay.

speaker-1: Maybe, I don't know. We'll see. We'll workshop it.

speaker-0: That'll be fun. Well, Spencer, thank you so much for being on the show, man. ⁓ it's so good just to connect. I you know, we haven't had one of our phone calls in a while, so it was good just to to get to talking again. We'll have to be more consistent with the phone calls. But ⁓ yeah, thank you so much. ⁓ and thank you all for listening. I hope that you felt inspired by this episode and that you just stay creative.

speaker-1: Yeah. Dude, thanks so much for having me on. It was a pleasure to talk with you as always. ⁓ good luck with your feature film, good luck with dad life. And if anyone wants to connect with me, I'm on Instagram at Spencer Whiteout, the Spencer Whiteout Podcast on all the major platforms, and go check out Space Waves and Beast Mode on ⁓ iTunes, Amazon, Google Play, YouTube, all that good stuff. So thanks again, Chris. Yes, it is.

speaker-0: Is it on Tubi? Go watch space waves on Tubi so Spencer can get that get that schmoney.

speaker-1: No, no. Buy it on Amazon or Google, that would be better.

speaker-0: Buy it on Amazon or Google or Apple. ⁓ I don't know if you said Apple, but it Space Waves is a great film. It's it's wonderful. It really recalls back to vibes of the eighties and eighties comedies and and ⁓ dramedies in a way, as you said. So I really encourage you to see the film. ⁓ make sure to follow Spencer on all those platforms and channels. So

speaker-1: Let's go. Thanks, man.

speaker-0: Alright, we'll talk to you later. Thanks for watching this episode of the Creative Chapel Podcast. If you enjoyed it, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow along to stay up to date on more episodes. We're shooting out of Communion Church in San Diego, California. If you're looking for a great church to be a part of, this is the place to be. Stay faithful, stay creative, and I'll see you in the next episode.