ashley: Welcome to Running On Empty, the podcast with a goal to get you out the door and running even when you're running on empty. I'm your host, Ashley K. Hart.

kamile: And I'm your co-host Camila Randall It wasn't as great as I would have liked it to be I didn't find enough time because I had multiple things happening multiple social events, but I

ashley: And this is our first episode. my god, it's out there. We're doing it. Okay, well, I guess we're here to talk about running. So how was your running this week? It wasn't as great as I would have liked it to be.

kamile: Got some new running shoes and I am super excited. So I don't know if you know anything about ASICS. Well, I

ashley: Well, mean, I know that it's a Japanese company. Because, yeah, I learned something about them, I think when it was like the Tokyo Marathon or something like that. Sound mind, sound body or something like that. They're Japanese. That's about

kamile: I know that it's a Japanese company. I didn't know that. Yeah, I learned something about them, think, it was like the American or something like that. mind, sound body or something like that. They're Japanese. Like that's what it means. Like, ah, cool.

ashley: it. Yeah. And I know that Americans say ASICS.

kamile: say ASICS and it's supposed to be said

ashley: And Europeans say, ASICS or something like that. Yeah.

kamile: well it's Lithuania you would say ASICS. so I have white feet and I've been looking for good running shoes for a long time and I've run in Brooks for a long time but they're kind of like hard on your feet have you ever run in Brooks?

ashley: Yeah. I do not like Brooks. It's funny, like, I think that people have the brands they like, and you kind of stick with them. And everyone's like, there's a brand where you just like hard no and like I would never wear Brooks.

kamile: Yeah, well I used to wear it Nike or Nike Nike and And I hate it like it my feet would always hurt so then I found Brooks and Brooks was like They have white white shoes so my feet don't hurt when I run, but they were hard shoes and so

ashley: Nike. It's American. It's official. It's Nike.

kamile: then I went to buy new shoes because I needed them for the marathon and I tried on every shoe they had in the store. I really want to wear hawkas but every single one that I tried on I don't like them. You have hawkas right?

ashley: Yeah. No. OK, well, I wear I wear. So I have. Yeah, I have two shoes in my rotation and one of them is the is the Hawke Clifton and they're super cushy. feel almost like when I'm standing waiting at the traffic light, like I'm wearing high heels. They're so tall. I do really like them. Yeah, they have a huge heel drop because like right now it's really popular to have the super cushiony shoes and I do really like them.

kamile: the heel drop is very high Yeah,

ashley: But also sometimes they feel maybe too cushiony. I don't know, it's really weird because I would think the more cushion the better, but they say that's not necessarily true.

kamile: But also sometimes they feel too cushy. I don't know if agree because I would think the more cushion the better. But they say that's not necessarily true.

ashley: And it's down to like what you feel and like what works for you. So like with the Brooks, like I also thought they were hard, but I thought they were so hard that it was just like,

kamile: And it's down to like what you feel and like what works for you. So like with the Brooks, like I also thought they were hard, but I thought they were so hard that it was just like

ashley: I don't know, Frankenstein shoes.

kamile: I don't know Frankenstein. Well, I had like Brooks Adrenaline GT 23 at first and those were really hard. And then the 24 ones, like the next ones, they were a lot softer. They were a lot softer, but still like they're very, like they're not elastic, know, like when you don't push off so much, but they're very stable. And that's what I also liked with them because with the hawkas, I feel like I put my feet in pillows and then like,

ashley: Mm-hmm I know a lot

kamile: And then also don't feel like that they're pushing me off the ground. And also I feel like it's so soft that my ankle can roll in any direction. Yeah, I don't feel stable.

ashley: of people like the Brooks ghost.

kamile: Yeah, I have I don't think I've even tried them on I don't know. Yeah, I know a lot of people that run in them too. Like that's a shoe I see on Strava quite often. But okay, getting back to ASICs So I I was looking for shoes for my marathon and then I tried on A lot of shoes and then I tried Essex normal blast five. That was the latest model before and I heard some comments about them and like people were saying that they're really good, but they're not very stable and like you're supposed to run in them if your pace is faster than six. So it's like, it's a good like versatile shoe. can do recovery and speed, but only if your recovery is like faster than six kilometers per hour. Yeah. Well, I tried them on in the shop and I was like,

ashley: some comments about them And people were saying that they're really good, but they're not very stable. And you're supposed to run them if your pace is faster than six. It's a good, like, versatile stream. can do recovery and speed, but only if your recovery is faster than six. Yeah, which maybe not for us all the time. Yeah, well, I try them on in the shop, and I was like...

kamile: They're near not like really stable, but they're not unstable as well and they're not wide shoes But my white feet feel great in them and I just I just like fell in love with them Like they're so comfortable. The only problem is that they wear out quite quickly like people say around 500 kilometers I have 300 maybe in now so I do feel like it's less elastic at this point Depends on the shoe depends how it feels so I think I

ashley: Normally how many kilometers do you run a pair?

kamile: use run up and which is like, please sponsor

ashley: I use run a and which is like, please sponsor us. That would be nice. But I do like that they have on there that they can it collects the kilometers that you run on your shoes, especially when you have like multiple pairs of shoes. And so I set mine to 700. But what's interesting is that my hawkas once I hit 600, I notice more of kind of like them dying than I do on say like my Nike. So I wear Nike Pegasus as

kamile: Yeah, Strava too. Especially when you have like multiple pairs of shoes. Yeah, and so I set mine to 700. Yeah. Well, what's interesting is that my Hakkas, once I hit 600, I notice more of kind of like them dying than I do on say like my Nike. So I wear like Pegasus as

ashley: my other one. So I kind of rotate between the two. And right now I have two pairs of Pegasus and the hawkas.

kamile: my other ones. I kind of rotate between the two and right now I have two pairs of Pegasus and the Hakkas.

ashley: The only reason I have two pair of Pegasus is because I bought a fresh pair for the marathon because the other ones were also they were like around 500. And it was interesting just the other day because I was looking. So my Hakkas are at like 650. I can feel it. I only wear them on super easy runs. But my Pegasus that are at like 550, they feel way fresher than the Hakkas and it's only got 50 kilometer difference. So maybe that cushioning like breaks up more. I don't know.

kamile: Yeah. Yeah. Most likely. But then so the ASICs that I have, have been feeling like they're wearing out. They're still like, okay, I can run in them without any problem. But I was still thinking that I'm preparing for something in the autumn, so maybe I need shoes. And it was also actually you because you were like, do you only have one shoe?

ashley: yeah, that's right, because we went for that run.

kamile: I bought it the next day.

ashley: We went for a run and you were the day before it was raining.

kamile: the before it was raining. And I was in Thraxland the day before with those shoes and they were wet after.

ashley: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then I was like, you're like, they're still wet. I'm like, what are you wearing the same shoes for? Yeah, because I heard I mean, like, I don't know, like how scientific this is, but that it takes the foam, like 24 hours to repurpose. especially too, if they're also wet, that's not helpful. But like, so that you should give them that rotation. So it's a nice excuse to buy more shoes.

kamile: because I heard. But that it takes the phone like 24 hours to repurpose. Yeah. So that's what you do if they're also wet, that's not helpful. Yeah. So that you should give them that rotation. So it's a nice excuse to buy more. Yeah. Yeah. I used to

ashley: Yeah, I used to think.

kamile: think that all those Instagram influencers don't know anything that they're talking about when they're advertising their 17 pairs of shoes. But you do need a couple of pairs of shoes because.

ashley: Yeah

kamile: I have my trail ones too. I do have those ones, but I don't like to run in them in the city. That's the reason why I bought them, but I use them for trail too. But then, because you said that I need to have two pairs, and I was like, okay. So I went to the shop the next day, because ASIC Snowball 6 came out, and I haven't heard any reviews because they came out this July.

ashley: Yes I Forgot about that I do have trail pair too, but mine are really for snow more than anything. Yeah Okay,

kamile: And I went to try them on because I was thinking maybe I should buy another model of five, but because they were in the shop not far from home, I thought I'll just try them on. I went to the shop, I put them on my feet, and I'm immediately like, I love them. They're so comfortable. And so then I watched a few reviews. So basically they're supposed to be just as cushiony and energetic, but just like a little more, like it helps you push off a little better. Like, so it's a tiny bit faster of a shoe.

ashley: I put them on on my feet, and I immediately went, I loved it. So comfortable. And so then I watched a few reviews, so basically they're supposed to be just as pushy and energetic, but just a little more... It helps you push off a little bit. So it's a tiny bit faster of a show, and then the problem is supposed to be better. So it should last a little longer. But after I said that, I bought them a Saturday thing. How am I going to know?

kamile: And then the foam is supposed to be better. So it should last a little longer. But after I've said that, I bought them last Saturday, I think, or Sunday. I haven't run them yet. No comments yet.

ashley: I was going to say, was like, so how was their first day out?

kamile: No, because I only ran an easy run. So I ran my old shoes. then. Tomorrow I'm going to run in my new shoes. So.

ashley: Any older ones? Yeah, okay. So then next week we will have to hear about how that worked out. Well, so, you know, I also have something new. So this week I did my long run on Saturday and I started with some new gels. I bought two brands. I bought Cis Beta, which is 40 grams of carbs in one gel.

kamile: so this week, uh, did my long run on Saturday and, uh, I started with some new gels. what brands? I bought two brands. bought, um, Cis Beta, is 40 grams of carbs in one gel. And one little packet.

ashley: Yeah. the second one I bought was Never Second, which

kamile: Never Second, which

ashley: I think is 30 grams per. Because I had, one, I had seen a thing that like, you should get at least grams of carbs per hour. And so I thought I'd give them both a try. So right now my long runs are not really getting over the 20K mark because I'm training for a half marathon.

kamile: I think is 30 grams per. Because one, had seen a thing that you should get at of per hour. And so I thought I'd give them both a try. So right now my long rooms are not really getting over the 20k mark because I'm training for a half marathon.

ashley: So I'm only taking one gel.

kamile: So I'm only taking one gel.

ashley: Like if I was training for a marathon, I would probably start kicking them out every 5K. But so anyway, actually really quickly to back up. So during my marathon, I decided that I was never gonna eat that brand of gel ever again for the rest of my life. I'm not gonna say like who it was, but it's not anything against them. It's just like, I'm done. I can't do that.

kamile: Like if I was training for a marathon, would probably start kicking them out every 5K. So anyway, actually really quickly to back up. So during my marathon, I decided that I was never going to eat that many gel ever again for the rest of my life. I'm not going to say who it was, but it's not anything against them. It's just like, done. can't Maybe in a few years you can circle back. It reminds

ashley: It reminds me of like, you know, those that alcohol

kamile: me of like, you know those, that alcohol.

ashley: you drank at university that now someone could not pay you to drink, you know, because you're like, no, I drank enough Jägermeister at 20 years old

kamile: drink at university that now someone could not pay you to drink. Yep. You know, because you're like, no, I drank, your money to drink at 20 years

ashley: or whatever to survive a lifetime. You I won't drink it, you know. It's that kind of thing. So I'm just like done with that gel. So I decided to try some new ones. But what I was doing, too, is I was eating chews as opposed to gel like the actual gel.

kamile: old or whatever to survive a lifetime. I won't drink it. Yeah, I cannot look at whiskey the same way. It's that kind of thing. So I'm just done with that gel. So I decided to try something else. What I was doing too is I was using chews and then there was the gel, the... What's a chew?

ashley: Like the little like gelatin type

kamile: Like the little like gelatin type.

ashley: gummies. Yeah, it's like not as not as firm as a gummy bear because I actually tried some gummy bears and stuff in the past and like it was too much work.

kamile: It's it's not like it's less liquidy, Yeah, you gotta you gotta work chewing I did it like last year in the winter when I was running preparing for my marathon I I did this little test when I would take different type of gummy bears on every run and I did like the the viral thing the

ashley: little test when I take The nerd clusters, yeah.

kamile: Yeah, yeah, those as well. Those are actually the best because they kind of melt in your mouth But I did Haribo's and I I did different types of Haribo's and it's just like especially in the winter because they freeze you just kind

ashley: Yeah, it's too much. Like I occasionally will on a last minute thing, if I need something, I will go to the store. And this is a hot tip, buy the cheapest gummy product they sell because they're actually the best because they're usually

kamile: of

ashley: the softest and like easiest to eat. Like they're not good quality at all. And all you care about is sugar. But anyway, so I was doing the chews. This is the first time doing a gel. So I just took the one. So every week for four weeks, I'm gonna just test.

kamile: usually the softest and the easiest to eat. They're not good quality at all and all you care about is sugar. But anyway, so was doing the chews. This is the first time doing a gel. So I just took the one. So every week for four weeks, I'm going to just test

ashley: the different flavors and things. So I went out with the Cis Beta 40. I forgot what it's like to eat a gel. I was, no,

kamile: the different flavors and things. So I went out with a Cis Beta 40. I forgot what it's like to eat a Did you get it all over you?

ashley: I didn't get it all over me, God, but I was like, ooh, this is gross. Like I forgot about the texture of them. It'd been so long, because I probably hadn't had like a proper gel in a year, because I've been eating the chews for so long. So it was a bit of like a shock to my system. But it also showed me like, it takes me a while to eat it.

kamile: This is gross. I forgot about the texture of them. It's been so long because I probably hadn't had a proper gel in a year. Because I've eating the juice for so long. So it was a bit of a shock to my system. But it also truly, it takes me a while to eat it.

ashley: think I probably ran like 500 meters before I finished it, which actually I think might be a good thing. So like, we'll see, but I totally forgot about the

kamile: I think I probably ran before I finished it. actually I think might be a thing. So I'm like, I see, but I totally forgot about

ashley: texture and stuff. was a bit weird, but it worked. So I ate it at, I wanna say like 40 minutes into the run. I was doing 15K, so I thought like, let's do it like, you know, maybe halfway. And I did feel like that extra push because I felt really good.

kamile: and stuff. was a bit weird, but it worked. So I ate it at, I want to say like 40 minutes into the run. was doing 15 K. So I thought like, let's do it like, you know, maybe halfway. Um, and I did feel like that extra push because I felt really good. It

ashley: It was hot, but I was really focusing on it trying to be easy. And again, like kind of

kamile: was hot, but I was really focusing on it trying to be easy. And again, kind

ashley: how I talked about previously that,

kamile: of how I talked about previously that

ashley: you know, it's okay. Like there's no pace right now. The whole point is just to go for 15K and it was cloudy. So I was able to run along the river and enjoy

kamile: You know, it's okay. there's no pace right now. The whole point is just to go for 15k and it was cloudy. So I was able to run 100 %

ashley: myself, not be miserable, but it was, it was was an interesting thing. So this week I'm on D-load.

kamile: myself, not being miserable. it was, it was an interesting thing. So this week I'm on V-Load. So next week will be my next flavor to The only other thing too is like I don't like a lot of the flavors.

ashley: So next week will be my next flavor to try. The only other thing too is like I don't like a lot of the flavors, you know?

kamile: But have you tried Morton's?

ashley: Not yet, that's the one, because they don't have any flavor, right?

kamile: Not yet. Yeah, they're flavorless I thought it's gonna be disgusting but actually that is the only Gel that doesn't upset my stomach when I run big things So I ate half of my marathon I ate Morton's and then that half of my marathon my belly was completely fine And then I went to never second the ones that you bought I used to love never second like especially the passion fruit flavor. Mm-hmm, but immediately like I'm gonna hurl it like

ashley: Ugh.

kamile: You had to go to the bathroom multiple times like it didn't work because I think the flavor itself is the problem too like and then the mortons they're they're not really like gelatinous But they're also they're like they're a gel but they're a little like a thicker gel, but they're not a chew It's it's a very like interesting good consistency so you can like squeeze it into your mouth and you can breathe without um choking But you have to like chew it a little bit

ashley: Yeah. Yeah.

kamile: So I kind of like I didn't expect to like them, but they are actually worth the money.

ashley: I'll definitely put it on the list.

kamile: I'll definitely put it on

ashley: And this week it's hot again.

kamile: And this week it's hot again.

ashley: I don't know. I went out a few more times. I actually went out yesterday. It was like 27 degrees. That's like, people will laugh that are from like hot places because 27 doesn't feel like much. But if you're from like the northern part of the world, it's hot. And then in Fahrenheit, I would say that's like probably like 80 degrees. It's actually not.

kamile: So, I don't know, I went out a few more times. I actually went out yesterday, it was like 27 degrees, that's like, people will laugh that I'm from a hot place, it's like 27, it doesn't feel like much, but if you're from a northern part of the world, it's hot. And then in Fahrenheit, I would say that's like, probably like 80 degrees, it's actually not

ashley: too terrible, but for us, it's a big deal. And I thought like, okay,

kamile: too terrible, but for us, it's a big deal. And I thought like, okay.

ashley: yesterday when I went out, I said, you know, we're just gonna go easy, like, there's nothing to worry about here, like, let's just stay in the shade. And it got me thinking about like, all the runs I've been on and the heat. I'm like, how do you deal with all of that, you know? I think like, because they said, I saw a thing that says that it takes between like three and 14 days.

kamile: Yesterday when I went out, said, you know, we're just going to go easy. Like, there's nothing to worry about here. Like, let's just stay in the shade. And it got me thinking about like all the rungard venom and the heat and like, how do you deal with all of that? Yeah. think like because they said I saw a thing that says that it takes between like three and 14 days to get used to high temperatures.

ashley: to get used to high temperatures. Acclimatize, yeah. To

kamile: Yeah, to acclimatize. Is that the word? Acclimatize.

ashley: acclimatize, which is like understandable. It's the middle of July, except we live somewhere where.

kamile: Which is like understandable. It's the middle of July. Yeah, except somewhere That is not possible. It is I'm impossible to do because one week it's plus 15 and raining the whole time and then the next week it's 27 for five days and then next week again, it's gonna be 16 I think and raining again. Did you know that? Yeah

ashley: Yeah, yeah, I saw that in a couple days it's gonna go back down to 17 so it's like yeah, so like for Fahrenheit people that's like Oh imagine it's like 85 and then

kamile: Yeah, so it's like

ashley: it's 60 again You just keep going back and forth so we don't really have the chance to like acclimatize to it But I was thinking about hot running and like my experiences with it right because it's still summer and so like we should talk about it,

kamile: It's 60 again. Just keep going back and forth. So we don't really have the chance to like acclimatize to it. But I was thinking about hot running and like my experiences with it, right? Because it's still summer and so like we should talk about

ashley: Tell me about your experiences with really hot runs. Like what's a hot run you went on that really killed you?

kamile: Tell me about your experiences with really hot runs. What's a hot run you Ooh, that's a difficult one. I don't remember a single... No, maybe actually I do. So I went to Australia this winter. So it was winter here in Lithuania, but it was summer in Australia. I have never experienced summer like that. A little bit of a context background. Like we got out of the... airplane like Latvia when we left it was minus 17 I would say. It was very cold and then

ashley: Wow, what is that in Fahrenheit? It's below zero.

kamile: and landed in Sydney and we went out of the airport like into outside and it was 38 degrees and

ashley: my god.

kamile: like literally the air felt like as if you are I don't know like when you stand next to a campfire and the wind blows into your face and that that hotness that's how it felt like that.

ashley: You open the oven and it's like blasts.

kamile: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it was that and it's just the air outside and of course it was like a airport parking lot so it was worse but still like horrible and You know when it says you have to acclimatize in two weeks. I didn't have the two weeks I had to train from a marathon and I had to go and go from like it was a more than a 40 degree change for me and I had to go and run in Canberra in that heat and also camera is very hilly so that also added to it so The hottest and the worst and like I still remember it with like I can still feel the pain was when I was really hot went on that occasion, but also caught a cold so I got sick and I was in bed for one week I couldn't like move I had like a high fever and so on and then I eventually got better and for my marathon plan plan I needed to do a 5k time trial so the whole thing was like 7k but like the 5k in the middle were supposed to be

ashley: I was in bed for one week and I couldn't move my That's the worst because

kamile: I don't remember what was the pace, but like 530 or something like a fast pace for me. And I was just recovering from my illness and was my first run after my illness. ran it in the morning. It was like eight o'clock in the morning maybe. And it was already 29 going to 30. That's the worst because it's crazy because it's the coolest

ashley: It's crazy because it's the quote, the coolest time of the day, but it's like you can feel it's coming. Like there's nothing. So it doesn't even feel like you're in

kamile: time of day. But it's like you it's coming. There's nothing. So it doesn't even feel like you're in.

ashley: cooler temperatures because every minute you're out there running, it's getting hotter.

kamile: Yeah, it's getting worse and I think that's mistake because then I later like when I recovered better and so on then I had runs in the evening and it was hotter but it was easier to do it because it was like cooling off whilst I was running so I don't know like or maybe like I got acclimatized by that time because I was there for a month Yeah, yeah

ashley: But and also like the sun is is strong, right? Like, I mean, because it's just later in the day, like the sun is dwindling down maybe.

kamile: no, it was also sunny and I was running like the hills. So I was like in the sun constantly almost, I think it was maybe just acclimatization. But so that run I had to do, I picked like a very flat place compared in Canberra and it was around the lake. And I just remember running and I ran that like the place was, I was supposed to, let's say it was five 30. I was running six 30 and like struggling and dying and like I had to stop multiple times and.

ashley: is acclimatization. But so that run I had to do and I picked like a very flat place compared in Canberra and it was next a lake. And I just remember... The place I was supposed to do it at was 5.30, I was running 6.30 and like struggling and dying and like I had to stop multiple times and like old people were the right ones.

kamile: like old people were running around me and like I thought I will throw up and I don't often feel like I'm gonna throw up whilst running but that was like that's that's like my limit like when I know that I like I'm gonna leave my breakfast on the that's that's how I know it's really bad yeah yeah yes it was real bad how about you

ashley: Yeah. And those because those people are used to it, right? Like they're they're fine with it. Like and you're just coming in. Yeah. No. Yeah. Like I last summer I was on like a short holiday with friends in Warsaw in Poland. it's funny because all these stories like and I was training for something and I didn't have a choice. You know, and yeah, runners are always like, I don't have a choice. And so I had to go out a couple mornings with them. And so my friends were like, we weren't like super early risers and like jumping out and going out to do stuff. So thought, OK, yeah, like I'll get up like 730. I'll go for my run. By the time I come back, like I'll shower while I out for breakfast. It'll be nice.

kamile: choice. Well, you do, but you don't. And so I had. them and so my friends were like we weren't like super early risers and like jumping out and going out to do stuff so yeah like we'll get up like 730. shower all about breakfast every night.

ashley: You know, and it was like gonna be 35. so I went out and it was the same thing. It was like, okay, it's only 26. It's only 26 right now and today's gonna be 35. So this is fine. No, like, it's just like every step you take, it's getting worse and worse. And I really love running in new cities. Like,

kamile: And it was like, gonna be 35. And so I went out and it was the same thing. It was like, okay, it's only 26. It's only 26 right now. Today's gonna be 35, so this is fine. No, it's just like every step you take is getting worse and worse. And I really love running in new cities.

ashley: I think it's fun. It's like a great way to explore and you get to see lots of stuff way faster. And two, you can be like, I checked out.

kamile: I think it's fun, it's a great way to explore. see lots of stuff way faster. And two, you can be like, oh, I checked out,

ashley: I don't know, I ran past this really cool bakery. Later we can go there, you know?

kamile: I know, I ran past this really cool bakery. Later we can go there. I just feel like I'm the coolest person when I do that. Like, you know, like I'm traveling and I'm also running. Like, look at me.

ashley: I know like I'm seeing all this stuff, you know, so you can you can see something you'd

kamile: I'm seeing all this stuff, you know? So you can see something.

ashley: be like, let's go but then on the other side of that when you're running and traveling with like You don't know Exactly where you are like you plan out a route and stuff, but you don't know the Sun situation You know, like if I'm in Vilnius I can tell you at any given time of day like where the Sun is going to be beating so now

kamile: like you don't.

ashley: I mean, even though I made some mistakes and went on the river when I shouldn't, I know what time of day I can go to the river. I know what side to be on and things. But you know, you're in a new city and you're just like, I was gonna run to this park. look, both sides of the street are full sun right now or whatever.

kamile: You know time of day I know what side to be on you know you're in a new city and you're like oh I was gonna run to this park oh look both sides of the street are full sun right now Yeah. And like, also don't know how the heat feels because the degrees are one thing, but then humidity and everything else, like it affects everything.

ashley: The humidity too, yeah. So I was like going down, I was like running through their old town, which is really pretty and stuff. And I'm running along and then I get to the top, I'm at the top of a really steep hill. And I'm thinking I cannot go down because if I go down, I'll come back up. So then I switched, I went a different direction, ended up in this park, which

kamile: So I was like going down, was like running through the old town, which is really pretty and stuff. And I'm running along and then I get to the top. I'm at the top of a really steep hill and I'm thinking I cannot go down. If I go down, I'll come back up. I switched. I went a different direction. I ended up in this park.

ashley: was really nice. But again, it was like so much sun in it. I kept having to stop.

kamile: was really nice, again, was like so much sun in it. I kept having to stop,

ashley: Right, I'm running out of water. I don't know where to get more water. I'm just in the middle of Warsaw at an eight o'clock in the morning on a Saturday. So no one's anywhere,

kamile: right? I'm running out of water. I don't know where to get warm water. I'm just in the middle of Warsaw at eight o'clock in the morning on a Saturday. So no one's anywhere.

ashley: you know? And it was just like so hard. And I ended up having to walk two kilometers back. And at the time I felt like such a failure. Like this is like a

kamile: You know? And it was just like so hard. And I ended up having to walk two kilometers back. And at the time I felt like like just like

ashley: year ago. And I, you know, I'd

kamile: a year ago. I, you

ashley: been running consistently for like a year and a half

kamile: know, I've been consistently feeling a year and a

ashley: at that point. And I just feel really bad for myself then to be like.

kamile: And I'm still really bad for myself then to be like,

ashley: you're a loser, like you can't keep up.

kamile: oh, you're a loser. You can't up. But it's nothing of your choice. Do you know why is it hard to run

ashley: Do know why is it hard to No. Well, I mean, obviously I'm hot,

kamile: hot.

ashley: but. it's basically why he's struggling to release the heat because usually you release heat in.

kamile: But it's basically your body is struggling to release the heat. Because usually you release heat in just like your blood vessels dilate. So then the heat is coming closer to your skin and then like it evaporates that way. And then like in sweat as well, like sweat release also helps it to evaporate faster. So that's why also humidity is very unhelpful because it makes you, you can't evaporate your sweat as fast. But then, so when your blood vessels dilate to cool you down, then it means that the total volume that your body has to circle the blood through becomes bigger. So your heart struggles to,

ashley: your body has to circle the blood through becomes bigger so your heart struggles to Yeah, there's like

kamile: you know, like to deliver blood to all of this new place that now opened up so it increases the heart rate and then the fatigue happens faster as well because like the muscles aren't getting the oxygen as fast as they are supposed to have. So like your heart rate increases immediately and then like it's not just perceived effort, it's actual effort you have to put in that, you know, it becomes harder. Yeah, there's like,

ashley: Like there's, think, and I don't know what it is exactly, but there's like

kamile: I don't know what it is exactly, but there's like a

ashley: a rate of like how much slower you should go based on temperatures, you know? But like you were saying earlier, just like, well, I would normally run this at like, say, six minute kilometers, and today I'm doing it at 630, and it feels the same or harder. Yeah, exactly, like that can happen, and that's okay. I mean, I think, you know, you just have to...

kamile: rate of like how much slower you should go based on temperatures. Like you were saying earlier, just like, well, I would normally run this at like, say, six minutes long. And today I'm doing it at 630 and it feels the same. Or harder. Yeah, exactly. Like that can happen and that's okay. I mean, I think, you know, you just have to

ashley: kind of accept that it happens. I think there's a lot of things you can do that help with the heat running that I've experienced. Like

kamile: kind of accept that it happens. I think there's a lot of things you can do that help with the heat running that I've experienced.

ashley: one is like obviously cut back. Like you don't have to do these like hard sessions. Like if it's just not possible, don't do it.

kamile: You don't have to do these like hard sessions. Like if it's just not possible, don't do it. Are you good? Sorry, I didn't interrupt you, but are you good at running at perceived efforts? Like are you good with dealing with your head?

ashley: That's exactly what I was gonna talk about was the running by perceived effort. Maybe, but you know what I do instead? If I'm gonna do intervals, I'm just gonna get them done. But I usually only have like one of those a week. So if that's just gonna be terrible, it's just gonna be terrible and I'm gonna get through it. But for RPE, what I tend to do is I have to put my mindset in that this is an easy run and it is easy for me.

kamile: I'm just going to get them done. But I usually only have one of those a week. So if that's just going to be terrible, it's just going be terrible. I'm going to get through it. But for RPE, what I tend to do is I have to put my mindset in that this is an easy run and it is easy for me.

ashley: Like that sounds silly, like I just say that twice, but I'll be running and I'll

kamile: That sounds silly. I just said that twice. But I'll be running.

ashley: go, this is easy, this is relaxed, we're relaxed, we don't have anywhere to be. And it's really funny because this week is a test of that, because yesterday when I went out, I was telling myself that and I went out at my normal easy run pace. And I came home and I was shocked that I managed to keep my same pace. And it was because of my mindset telling me it's okay. Now that's not to say that I didn't stop for water at every water fountain I saw.

kamile: but that's that's good pro tip that you taught me as well. we were running one time and you were just like, okay, go drink, go drink again. Maybe they are stuck up. Maybe they have like full shorts of water. They're crazy. They're a camel, I guess. So

ashley: If there's water drink the water like don't don't think it's fine I'll get another one because now I see runners who run past it I'm thinking fool Like just stop and drink the water like They're crazy, I don't know, like they're a camel, I guess, you know? So drink the water and stay in the shade. Like the shade is monumentally different. At least I don't know around

kamile: you drink the water and stay in the shade. The shade is monumentally different. At least, I don't know, or I'll...

ashley: other places, but in Vilnius, I don't know how it feels like you're in a different country when you're in the shade versus when you're in the sun. So I try to do that too. I think, you know, also it's good if you're interested in trail running. It's like a time to explore that stuff. If you can get out in the woods somewhere. Of course, if you don't live somewhere that's got that, you've got to do what you've got to do. But then another thing you can do is Jeffing. Do know what Jeffing is?

kamile: No, I've never heard it

ashley: Jeffing was coined by an Olympic runner, Jeff Galloway. He

kamile: So Jeffing was coined by an Olympic runner, Jeff Galloway.

ashley: so so Jeffing is walk run method. Okay, so I think that it's really cool. And I think it's great for people who are getting into running, because I think a lot of couch to 5Ks use Jeffing. So they say to them like, okay, go out, run for 30 seconds, and then walk for two minutes, and then run for 30 seconds. And it really works for some people. I...

kamile: So they say to them like, okay, go out, run for 30 seconds and then walk for two minutes and then run for 30 seconds. And it really works for some people. I don't particularly think it's helpful for me. Like when I started running, I use a method of more like I'm going to run one kilometer and then maybe I have to take a little walk break and then I'm going to try, like, and I'm going to try to build that up over time.

ashley: I don't particularly think it's helpful for me. Like when I started running, I used a method of more like I'm going to run one kilometer and then maybe I have to take a little walk break and then I'm going to try, like and I'm gonna try to build that up over time rather than like the shorter burst. But there are people that run marathons using Jeffing and they get the same times as other people who are actually running the whole time. So Jeffing is also like a reasonable thing to do.

kamile: rather than like the shorter bursts. But there are people that run marathons using juffing and they get the same times as other people who are actually running the whole time. So juffing is also like a reasonable thing to do

ashley: when it's hot especially or like if you were trying to chase the shade, you run in the shade. every time you hit the sun, maybe you walk, you know, because it's just too much or maybe you do the opposite. Maybe you run through the sun and then you take a walk breaks in the shade.

kamile: when it's hot especially or like if you were trying to shade, you run in walk, you know, because it's just too much or maybe you do the opposite, maybe you run through the sun and shade. Like, so I've never done jeffing in my running career, air quotes.

ashley: It's just because I'm...

kamile: But it's just because like if I run and I start walking, it's really hard to start back running. now I just don't think about it. But when I started running, like I just couldn't, if I started walking, I'm done. Like I'm not going to run again. So that wasn't working for me, but then I would just like run really, really slow, like run at like walk pace. And that also was helpful.

ashley: about it but when I started running like I just couldn't if I started walking Yeah, so that

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: I think because I'm the same I think you and I are very similar in like the our Journey into how we got into being able to run like a 5k, you know I am the same so like Jeffing doesn't work for me But I know lots of people who it works really really well for it's just down to like how your motivation works and what what your goal is like

kamile: I think because I'm the same. think you and I are very similar in like our journey into how we got into being able to run like a 5k. Yeah. You know, I'm the same. like jumping doesn't work for me, but I know lots of people who it works really, really well for. It's just down to like how your motivation works and what your goal is like

ashley: for your own mind. think Juffing is really good because it's for people because it says like, it's okay to walk. Like, did you see that thing?

kamile: for your own mind. think jumping is really good because for people, because it says like, it's okay to walk. Like, did you see that thing? I forget, was it at Berlin? What marathon was it? no, was Boston, where Nike had an ad that was like, runners welcome, walkers tolerated.

ashley: I forget, was it at Berlin? What marathon was it? no, it was Boston where Nike had an ad that was like, runners welcome, walkers tolerated. Yeah, and everyone went crazy because it was like runners, like that implies that runners can't walk.

kamile: my god. Yeah, and everyone went crazy because it was like runners, like that implies that runners can't walk.

ashley: I mean, Boston Marathon is also a qualifier marathon with like really speedy times. And it's like,

kamile: I mean, Boston Marathon was also a qualifier marathon with like really speedy times. And it's very hilly, right?

ashley: it's got a couple of really big hills in it. So I think that has something to do with it. So they got in a lot of trouble. Yeah.

kamile: So I think that is something to do with it. So they got in a lot of trouble. Yeah, that's quite mean. Because I hear from my environment and guess social media too how like some people don't qualify themselves as runners or don't allow others to qualify like gatekeep, you know, running. And that feels like in that scheme. And I don't think like

ashley: Yeah.

kamile: If you run a little bit and then you walk a little bit and then you run a little bit that you're less of a runner you still run like it doesn't matter how much right

ashley: Yeah, and I think the people that do that, I think it's really important for people who are getting into running to know that a real runner would never ever shame you for walking. A real runner is just excited that you wanna run too. Like we just want more people in the cult. The more people we can get, the better. And if walking a bit is like part of your thing, then fine. Like I think that's a really big part of it. When I had started a run club,

kamile: to know that a real runner would never ever shame you for walking. A real runner is just excited that you want to run too. We just want more people in the cult. in the better. Walking a bit is part of your thing. I think that's a really big part of it. When I had started a

ashley: My rule was we run as fast as the slowest person in the group. And the slow isn't a bad word there, kind of like how Coach Bennett from Nike

kamile: we run as fast as the slowest person in the game. And slow isn't a bad word there, kind of like how to present in my

ashley: says. It's not a bad word, you know, but like that's the pace we're gonna go at because.

kamile: opinion. It's not a bad word, know, but like that's the pace we're gonna go at. Slow is relative. Whatever is slow to you is slow to me or whatever is slow to someone else is slow to you as well. That was quite confusedly said, but the idea stands.

ashley: Exactly. Slow is as slow does.

kamile: Slow

ashley: Yeah.

kamile: in heat a lot.

ashley: Are there any other things that you do that like help you to get through summer running?

kamile: Well, I think one thing we haven't mentioned so far and is very important is sunscreen.

ashley: Yeah. I a hot tip recently that was very helpful. So, you you put on your sunscreen, you go for a run and you just feel like it's melting off you and it's gone. And so you still get burned because I have that problem all the time. And then I saw someone saying, put it on at least 30 minutes before you go out. No, I was

kamile: I done that

ashley: like putting it on like five, 10 minutes before I leave the house. So now in the morning when I'm going and I know specifically that it's like gonna be sunny, before I even eat my breakfast, I'll put it on and then I'll get dressed so that it's already like sunk in. Cause I wasn't doing that. I also wear a hat every single run.

kamile: that So now in the morning when I'm going and I know specifically that it's like gonna be sunny, before I even eat my breakfast, on and then I'll get dressed so that it's already like something. I wasn't doing that. I also wear a hat. Every single But with the sunscreen as well, it's important to get a water-resistant one so that it doesn't sweat off with you. And do you know why is it important to have sunscreen

ashley: Well, mean, obviously you don't want to get burned.

kamile: Yeah, also burning itself is unpleasant. But one of the things is that burning makes your skin inflamed, which harms the blood vessels. And then like the blood flow is even more difficultly delivered.

ashley: So like you said earlier about how like when you're hot, the blood vessels are getting larger, then on top of it, it's like all inflamed.

kamile: getting larger, then on top of it, it's like all inflamed. Yeah. So then you can reach heat stroke or heat exhaustion a lot faster if you have a sunburn. There's also some theories that sunblock itself blocks sweating off and reducing your heat, but still it's less so than if you get a sunburn. Yeah. Hats?

ashley: Hats are amazing as well. I have fringe or bangs as Americans call it. I just found a long time ago it was way

kamile: Hats are amazing as well. Well, I have fringe. I a little bang in the American thought. And I just found a long time ago,

ashley: easier to stuff it under a hat and now I can't even run without a hat.

kamile: I run

ashley: I run with a hat on a treadmill in the gym. I am that person.

kamile: a hat on a treadmill in You're that person. But I, for one, cannot run in a hat because I get overheated immediately. I evaporate probably most of my heat through my head apparently and then I just can't. I just feel so hot if I have a hat on. And that's in any season. The only time I can have a hat on is when it's minus degrees.

ashley: That's so interesting. Now I'm so used to it. I mean, it's hot. I now have multiple hats. I have, they're all baseball cap style, but I have ones for winter and then I have ones for summer that are more breathable. But, and also I, they have to be washed quite a bit.

kamile: Yeah, you have the specific running ones or just like baseball caps?

ashley: No, I have specific running ones. have an Under Armour one that I love. I actually have had a couple Under Armour ones. I also have a neon one for winter. I can't think of the name. Yeah, I can't think of the name of it. The brand that is right now. I bought it in Denmark. And then I also have one from Satisfye, which is more of like a cycle style one. But yeah, they're all they're all like really lightweight.

kamile: I actually have had a couple Under Armour ones. also winter. To be visible? Yeah, I can't think of the name of it, the brand it is right now. I bought it in Denmark. And then I also have one from Satisfye, which is more of like a cycle style one. Maybe that's my problem because I just like I tried running only normal baseball caps like the I think they're made from cotton Yeah Yeah

ashley: Yeah, I think that's a bad idea because it's just so thick and like, and the problem with cotton is that, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't evaporate at all. So you just end up with wet. Also, I haven't tried it, but if it gets really hot, I saw a thing where it was just like, just dip your hat in water, like cold water and put it on your head and go. Cause during the marathon, I was throwing water on top of my head at one point.

kamile: I didn't because it was snowing in April. But I have done that whilst stand up paddling. This is not running. It was still like a hot day and I was on a lake and it was real hot. And I just put my hat and my linen shirt in the water and then put it on myself completely wet. It was unpleasant at first because like it just like runs all over you. But then after that, it's real nice. Yeah,

ashley: You Yeah, I mean, it helps to cool you down. So I think it's like, you know, drink the water, put

kamile: I mean, it helps cool you down. Like, you know, drink the water.

ashley: the water on you, have the water everywhere.

kamile: I also read about these methods. I've never tried them, but people that are a little bit more professional in their running, we are. They run with these coolant vests. So it's a vest. I don't think it's actual ice packs, but something like that, like a trail vest that has that. And then when you run it, cools you down the whole time. And then some people also try cooling themselves 30 minutes before they go for a run. So you could do a really, really cold shower if your water goes that cold or like ice bath I guess.

ashley: You know, I saw at the Paris Olympics, Sifan Hassan, who won the gold medal at the marathon, who I love. She's like, amazing. I just think she's so great. She wore this kind of headband. And yeah, that was supposed to cool her. So there was like all kinds of stuff that they Because the Paris Olympics was like 35 degrees, I think. Like, Elied Kipchoge, who is the greatest marathon runner in the history of marathon running, he dropped out. It was too hot. And it wasn't worth it for him. So it was a really intense and hot race.

kamile: You know, I saw at the Paris Olympics, Sympa at the marathon, who I love, she's like, I'm amazing, I think, I would say she's so great. you know, that was supposed to cool her, so they did all kinds of stuff with that, because the Paris Olympics was like 35 degrees, I think. Like Elliot Kipchoge, who is the greatest marathon runner in the history of marathon running, he dropped out. He was too hot. It wasn't worth it for him. So it was really intense and hot.

ashley: but I think like, in the end, you know, we have to think about summer running and heat training as thinking about though, we are just regular people just doing regular runs. It's like acclimation training, it makes you stronger, you know, so every hot run that you get through, just remember that even if it was like the

kamile: Yeah. It's like acclimation training. makes you stronger. You know, so every hot run that you get through, just remember that even it was like the feels like in the moment that it was the worst run you were ever on, you still made yourself stronger by going on that run in multiple ways. You made yourself stronger because you got out there when it was hard and did the work.

ashley: feels like in the moment that it was the worst run you were ever on, you still made yourself stronger by going on that run in multiple ways. You made yourself stronger because you got out there when it was hard and did the work, right? You made yourself stronger because you acclimated your body a bit more to heat training and that kind of resistance. And then number three, you're just a badass because you went out for a run today.

kamile: Right? You made yourself stronger because you acclimated your body a bit more to training and that kind of resistance. And then number three, you're just a badass because you want to have fun.

ashley: And

kamile: And you did a hard thing. I think that this kind of hard running when it's in the heat and you have to push yourself, it makes you way stronger. And it prepares you for... you know, fall race or whatever. Even like when I ran in Canberra and then I came back to Lithuania and it was minus 15 again, I felt like I am on drugs.

ashley: I know had the same thing I was I was running in Tel Aviv and it was 30 degrees and and then the next week I traveled to Copenhagen it was 15 and I thought I was the fastest person on the river like no one could go faster than me which is not true at all but I just felt like so powerful in my runs so maybe this weekend we're gonna have amazing runs in the cooler temperatures

kamile: and I thought I was the fastest person on the river, like no one's ever gone faster than me. It's not true at all. So maybe this weekend we're gonna have amazing. Yeah, well, I think it's next week, but still, still. And like, I guess we train our bodies to acclimatize a lot this summer.

ashley: and it's still coming. Yeah, for sure. So if anybody, if you have a crazy summer running story, we would love to hear from you. You can email us at hello.runningonempty at gmail.com. We'd love to hear your stories because we'd like to share those as well. And like, what are your experiences running in the summer heat?

kamile: So, if anybody, if you have a crazy summer running story, we would love to hear from you. You can email us at hello.runningonempty.gmail.com. We'd love to hear your stories. We'd like to share those as well. And like, what are your experiences running in the summer heat?

ashley: I think let's wrap up now with our win of the week, which Camilla is yours. What do you have?

kamile: I think let's wrap up now with. Oh, so I have this It feels like a irrelevant story, but it just kind of it didn't feel so great So I joined a functional fitness gym now two months ago. Apparently I didn't even realize what time flew I Don't even know We have like we have a strength part in the beginning like for 30 minutes and like different days of the week It's like a different program. So one day is legs the other day's top body and the other one is like

ashley: And what does functional fitness mean?

kamile: skills. And like, it's literally just like strength training with weights. And then we have the conditioning part, which is, I would say it's just like the endurance part. usually we have a cardio machine of one type or another. There's the rowing, the skier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love I don't think they love it. And then you can do a bike or you can run on a treadmill. And I usually never run on the treadmill because I go to those workouts with

ashley: Yeah, the skyr, the hyrax people love the skyr, yeah.

kamile: like weightlifting shoes, so they're kind of flat. But this last week, so I went to the conditioning part and all of the other cardio machines that I was able to do were taken and I'm not gonna do this

ashley: And I'm not gonna do the skert.

kamile: skier. I don't know how to do that. So only running was left and I was with those shoes, but I was like, I can do it. And so the workout was it was 10 minutes effort and effort was supposed to be like 70%, I think and then four minutes recovery and then 10 more.

ashley: 10 minutes effort and the effort was supposed to be like 70 % I think and then four minutes recovery and then 10 more minutes of effort and the point is that you're supposed to push yourself and you have to hold the effort the same both

kamile: minutes of effort and the point is that you're supposed to push yourself but you have to hold the effort the same both intervals. So like your 10k pace would be the same?

ashley: intervals. So like your 10K pace maybe you would say.

kamile: Yeah like I would say faster because it's 10 minutes so like if you I counted like this because now I'm running I'm 5k in the autumn and I want to do it faster than 25 minutes so I have to do each kilometer faster than five minutes per kilometer. If I do two kilometers five minutes per kilometer, I do ten minutes, right? Can I do two kilometers five minutes per kilometer? Yes, I can do it right now. I cannot do five. Maybe maybe I could I don't know. I haven't tried Yeah, but like I was like, yeah I can do two kilometers and so if it's a two kilometer interval and then four minutes recovery like usually my recovery periods are 90 seconds max So this is four minutes. This is a lot of time. So I was like

ashley: Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, you're still training so you don't have to be there yet. This is a lot of time, so I was like, I'm gonna run that.

kamile: I can run that. And I just felt so confident. so I went on that treadmill. And it's not even the normal treadmill. It's the one that you have to run. And from you running it turns. It's a little curve. Yeah, yeah, yeah. it's a harder. And also, you have to see where you put your feet down. Does

ashley: yeah, it's a little curved and yeah, I tried it once. It was weird. I think you have to get used to it. Does it feel like more

kamile: it feel like? Does it feel like?

ashley: realistic to being outside? No. Because that's what some people

kamile: I don't know. I wouldn't say so.

ashley: say, but I think you, yeah, like you said, you have to spend too much time thinking about being on it.

kamile: Like, I guess if you do it more often, but I don't do it often. And then also I cannot walk on it because then I get nauseous. Okay. Before I get off, but running is fine. So back to the story. So I went on that machine and I ran for 10 minutes at like five minutes per kilometer. And then I occurred for four minutes, my heart rate went back to like 100, like really recovered. And then I did another interval and it was the same kind of hardness of interval. And like I did it, I think I did like a couple calories more in general, but I just like, I just felt so proud of myself in the sense that I joined this gym and I'm very, very new there, But the fact that I could like control, like I knew my body so well that I could control those.

ashley: I just felt so proud of myself in the sense that I joined this gym and I'm very new there.

kamile: two intervals of 10 minutes, knew that four minutes is like plenty of recovery. Like all of those numbers and all that data was like, it like went in through my brain. Like now I explained it for a couple of minutes, but in my brain was like two seconds. I'm like, you know? And then I could confidently do it. So like, I felt confident in my body, which is a very, very good win.

ashley: That's amazing, yeah, because then it's like you start, when you start doing a sport for a while, like running, you start understanding your real

kamile: That's amazing. Yeah, because then it's like you start doing a sport for a while. understanding your

ashley: capabilities of what you can and cannot do. So yeah, you know like how long that long of a break is gonna give you, like what effects you'll get from that, and you can build from there. I think that's really cool. Like that's one of the cool things about running is that you start to understand yourself.

kamile: So yeah, know like how long that long of a break is gonna give you like what effects you'll get from that and you build from that. think that's really cool. that's one of the cool things about running is that you start to understand yourself in

ashley: in different ways. And also this like whole thing of always like doing something that's hard, you know, it's not

kamile: different ways. And also this like whole thing of always like doing something that's hard, you know, it's not.

ashley: always as hard as you think it is, you know, because you've actually built up this stamina and this ability.

kamile: all of this part as deep you it is. if you've actually built up the stamina and the ability. so I think that kind of confidence in your body is very important to have. I used to not have something like that, you know, I was like, I'll probably cannot do that or that or that. And I'm like, no, I can do this. I know for sure that I can do this, which makes me feel great.

ashley: That's amazing.

kamile: Thanks for listening. We hope you will rate, review, and subscribe to help get the word out. We'll be back next week with a new episode. You can find us wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

ashley: And you can follow us at runningonempty underscore pod on Instagram or get in touch with us through our website runningonemptypod.com for the latest news and episode info. Bye.

kamile: or pod on Instagram or get in touch with us through our website running on mppod.com for the latest news episodes info. Okay, love you, bye. Keep running.