ashley: Welcome to Running On Empty, the podcast with the goal to get you out the door and running, even when you're running on empty. I'm your host, Ashley Kahart. And I'm Camilla

kamile: And I'm your co host, Camilla Randall.

ashley: Randall. All right, welcome. This week we have a lot of good stuff we want to talk about, especially imposter syndrome. I know it's a really big topic, but I thought it was a really great one for us to talk about in one of our first episodes. But before that, Camilla, how was your week of running?

kamile: It actually wasn't as good as I wanted it to be. And I guess that's normal. Like it's normal to have bad running weeks. But I because of all the other activities I'm doing and I I don't know, it's just summer. Summer is hard. Summer running is hard. I'm just behind schedule because I'm training for a five K for autumn and I have my run up plan. Hello run up, please sponsor us again every time. And it's just not like I had to skip a couple of runs and then like I

ashley: hard something is hard. I'm just behind schedule because I'm training for 5K for autumn and I have my run up plan. Hello run up this monster. Yes please. And it's just not have to skip a couple of runs and then like I

kamile: I thought I'll do a different one, but I didn't do it and it's just like it's a little bit out of character for me. But I hope to get back to it next week. How about

ashley: like it's a little bit out of character but I hope week. But also too on on the plan, I think you can make it that you can change it up or like you can say like I missed things, what should I do instead? Yeah because

kamile: yeah yeah. Yeah, like you can skip runs and you can like transfer them to a different date. And I have been like pushing them further and further and further. The problem is like I do all these other activities and then there's no not enough time to do the runs that I keep on pushing. So I had to like manually skip some to be like, okay, so I'm at point zero now and I'm doing it from here. And so then I did the run that I had to do this week. And then today's run was supposed to be nine K and I did five K, but I think it doesn't matter. I did a hundred kilometers on the bike yesterday.

ashley: Day's supposed to be nine K and I did five K, but I think it doesn't matter. I did a hundred kilometers on the bike yesterday.

kamile: think we're good for cardiovascular heart. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Actually but it's so I did the bike this is

ashley: I think we're good for cardiovascular. Yeah, you've got done the legwork. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Actually, but it's so I did the bike this is

kamile: a running podcast and this is a little bit out of topic, but I did one hundred K on the bike yesterday on gravel and so it was

ashley: And so it was

kamile: five and a half hours of riding and I did my marathon in four and a half hours and five and a half hours on the bike, it's so much easier. Like

ashley: Well you get to sit.

kamile: Yeah. You get to sit and you get to like roll down the hills I guess and that rest is really important because like I'm fine today. Like I d I went for the run, like my my legs don't hurt at all. That's great. I mean cycling. Yeah. Yeah, because we don't get the downtime and running down the hill. Yeah, if you're running down the hill still effort. It's actually more effort because you gotta protect your knees.

ashley: That's great. I mean that's a nice thing about cycling. Yeah. Yeah, because we don't get the downtime in running, right? You know, even it's actually more hard for to get together for different knees. Yeah, you have to use the different muscles. There's never there's never a break. But those cyclists they get to just coast sometimes. Must be nice. Well, my week was kind of a regular week. I had hill reps this week. which

kamile: Which I see.

ashley: I secretly love hills. I tell everybody that hills are easy for me. That doesn't mean that they are factually easy for me.

kamile: That doesn't that they are factually easy to

ashley: but it's one of my mantras that hills are easy for me. I believe if you continually tell yourself that it is easy for you, eventually you'll start seeing that progress and it'll stick a bit more. So I did my hill

kamile: So I did my

ashley: reps, which I love. I do them in the park and it's about a hundred meter hill. And

kamile: Mm-hmm. And basically

ashley: Basically I have to run from the tree to the trash can is how

kamile: I have from the tree to the trash can.

ashley: I really look at it. it's really hard, but it's it's nice. I did it. I ended up having a chance to do it in the morning, so

kamile: Mm-hmm.

ashley: there weren't a lot of people around 'cause sometimes doing the hills in the evenings is a bit weird, you know, and you

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: are going down the hill out of breath and people are thinking, Wow, this woman is so weak and then I

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: turn around and I charge up the hill at as fast

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: as I possibly can. so it's it's kind of strange. I also had in addition to last week's story, I

kamile: So it's it's kinda strange. I also had in addition to last week's story I

ashley: tried another gel. I tried my never seconds this week. Which weather? I did the passion fruit. Yeah, the best one. And

kamile: which flavor? I did the passion fruit. Mm, yes, the best one. And and so

ashley: and so from a carb perspective, they are 30 grams as opposed to the cisbeda, which was forty.

kamile: Yep.

ashley: I could feel the difference. I only took one again, so I did 16K

kamile: Sixteen K.

ashley: and I thought, okay, again, try it out around six kilometers, about like forty some minutes, something like that.

kamile: Something

ashley: just to try out the gel, see how I feel with it. It was easier to eat. I think because the cis beta is more of a gel texture. I know that sounds silly. That's not a really great example, but like it's more gelatinous while the never second is a bit more soupy. okay. Like a little easier to drink, I guess is what I want to say.

kamile: like that. just to try out the gel, see how I deal with it. It was easier to eat, I think, because the cis beta is more of a gel texture. I know it's not a really great example, but like it's more gelatinous while the never second is a bit more soupy. okay. Like a little easier to drink, I guess I wanna say. Yeah, like it goes down easier. Yeah, yeah. So

ashley: In that respect, I think I prefer the never second, but I would definitely need to have more because I I was kind of tired like getting around eleven, twelve K. If I'd had another one on me, I would have taken it. but it was easy to eat. But again, it was that situation where I just was thinking to myself, this is odd. Like I'm not used to doing this.

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: but we'll keep going. So then next weekend

kamile: Next weekend.

ashley: on my long run again, I'll have to try. I think I will pick One of the two and take a couple with me, see how that goes.

kamile: Yeah. a while ago I was running with my friend and she had cis cisbeta. Cisbeta.

ashley: Yeah.

kamile: Cisbeta We should not cut this out of the podcast, just leave me struggling. Cisbia.

ashley: I think you can say it either way. Me trying to say beta beta beta.

kamile: gels. And I had the never seconds, and that at that point the the never seconds were my favorites. And we were eating our own gels and then we switched at one point just to like try each other's. And I just remember the sis one being so disgusting compared to never second, especially like when you take a couple in a row. but maybe they have changed the flavor since then because that was like I don't know, a year and a half ago maybe. Also too, like when you're expecting one thing and you get something else, sometimes it can feel really odd. Like

ashley: Also too, like when you're expecting one thing and you get something else, sometimes it can feel really odd. Like even if you were if you thought you were gonna drink orange juice, for example, and it turned out to be apple juice, it would taste horrible because you thought it was going to be orange juice. Like your brain has already made the decision. So maybe maybe that too. and then I'll try like you recommended, I'll try the Mortons

kamile: for example and it turned out to be apple juice and it tastes horrible because you thought it was going to be orange juice and your brain has already made the decision. Yeah. So maybe maybe that too. Yeah. and then I'll try like you recommended I'll try the more with the no flavor. Yeah. but I'm just kind going

ashley: with the no flavor. but I'm just kinda going through each week trying to see. what is better for me and and how much water I need. I did like too that I didn't feel as thirsty after having the never second, while the cis beta I did, but maybe again it's the texture.

kamile: through each week trying to see what is better for me. Yeah. And how much water I need. I did like too that I didn't feel as thirsty after second. Well cis beta I did, but maybe again it's the texture. Never seconds also have electrolytes in them. So if you take never seconds you don't have to add any salt to on your long runs. Whereas cis beta I'm not sure but I don't think they have salt

ashley: salt to on your long runs. Whereas Cis Ba I'm not sure but I don't think they have salt

kamile: or have little salt. And then the Morton's No salt, so you have to intake all of your salt in other ways. Because a while ago I coded this running fuel calculator when I was spraying for my marathon and I added all the main ones and yeah, so with never seconds it never added any salt. Like you needed never needed to add any salt to your water. Yeah, so that it never is salt. Yeah, so like maybe that's why, like maybe you didn't like lose so many electrolytes and that's why you weren't as thirsty.

ashley: it never added any salt. But you need it never needed to add any salt to your Never seconds, never salt. Yeah, so then salt. Yes, like maybe that's what electrolytes and that's why you weren't as thirsty. Yeah, that could be. I am always thirsty when I'm running, but

kamile: Mm.

ashley: at the same time I don't know if I need it. I sometimes I wonder if it's a mental thing. I mean, I don't want to say that hydration isn't important. It definitely is, especially in the summer. But sometimes I think, I'm tired. I must be thirsty. And I get something stuck in my mind.

kamile: stuck in my mind.

ashley: which I think we all do. There'll be something we fixate on on the run. Like my you know, my quad doesn't feel right. There must be something wrong. And then two minutes later you don't even remember it bothering you. So we'll see. But it's like a good time to practice now when I'm only doing

kamile: Two you don't even remember it bothering you. Yeah. So we'll see, but it's like a good time to practice now when I'm only doing shorter long runs. Yeah.

ashley: shorter long runs, I guess is what I want to say.

kamile: And do you ever actually add salt to your water? I don't.

ashley: I don't I don't do that. I've always been interested in doing one of those sweat tests, you know, just out of curiosity. 'cause I think I'm a pretty salty sweater. But I hear such conflicting stuff. We should do an episode about salt. because it's a lot of weird stuff that we never really know like what we're talking about.

kamile: Yeah. You know, just curiosity, yeah. 'Cause I think I'm a pretty salty conflicting stuff. We should do an episode about salt. Mm. a lot of weird stuff that we never really know. Yeah, yeah. After a longer run, like I can brush my fingers across my forehead and I collect salt crystals. Like if I brushed

ashley: Like if I brush.

kamile: harder, I could like scratch my forehead with the salt on it. Yeah.

ashley: Salt. Yeah, I'll look at my my shorts and they'll be black and I'll see like white patches on them, like it's like seeping through. So

kamile: yeah yeah.

ashley: I definitely get salty. but you know, it's part of the summer game, I guess, and you gotta get used to it.

kamile: The summer game, I guess. Yeah.

ashley: and back to the idea of running and training with gels, it reminds me of the idea of whether or not you're a real runner or not. Because

kamile: Mm, because dru taking jealousy have to be a rule runner.

ashley: Because I was out there and, you know, thinking to myself, people see me going going by and they see me eating, which I also think is kind of a funny thing when people see you eating while you're running. I

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: think sometimes they look at you 'cause they've never even thought that that's something runners do. And they're like, You're s you're eating candy while you're running?

kamile: Yeah, yeah. Well I'm running Yeah, because if you eat a gel that looks a little bit more professional. But I in the winter when when I was running a lot, I would eat Handfuls of gummy bears and people would give me the like the death share of like who are you? Like why are you who how how dare you run and eat almost? Yeah if you're not fit yeah, yeah, because

ashley: Yeah, like you're not fit for eating while you're running, but in actuality it's the perfect thing to do.

kamile: Yeah, like like as if you're being unhealthy whilst you're running. Probably I assume probably they didn't judge me, but I felt so judged.

ashley: Yeah, right, because you think that all these people have these thoughts about you as a runner. which I think for the most part isn't really true. So we wanted to talk today about imposter syndrome and running and why we have it. I think they 70% of us have imposter syndrome in some place or another in our life. And the reason I started thinking about this topic was

kamile: Hm.

ashley: because I wanted to start a run club. So last year I decided that I wanted to try to start a run club at my office, you know, get some people together one night a week, just go for like a nice little run, you know, get to know more people in the office. running is super popular right now, lots of people are doing it, but no one seems to want to go

kamile: You know, get some people together one night a week, just go for like a nice little run, you know, get to know more people in the office. running is super popular right now, lots of people are doing it, but no one seems to wanna go

ashley: on this on this run weekly. You know, we had small numbers, maybe like five or six people going. But I know lots of people that want to run. So I started

kamile: on this run weekly. You know, we had small numbers, maybe like five or six people going, but I know lots of people that want to run. So I started investigating

ashley: investigating and asking people, you know, hey, I know that you run all the time, like we're friends on Strava. Why why don't you want to come?

kamile: and asking people, you know, hey I know that you run all the time, like we're friends on Strava. Why why don't you want to come?

ashley: So at first, you know, you get there's always going to be people that it's not a good time for them. You know, maybe they have to pick up their kids from school at the end of the day, or, you know, on that day that we're running, they have something already in

kamile: So at first, you know, you get there's always going to be people that it's not a good time for them, you know, maybe they have to pick up their kids from school at the end of the day, or you know, on that day that we're running, they have something already in there.

ashley: their plans and that's fine. But I started over time getting different answers.

kamile: I started over time getting different answers which were more like, really slow

ashley: Which were more like well, I'm really slow.

kamile: And I don't wanna slow you guys down. Classic down. I can't run that far.

ashley: I don't wanna slow you guys down. I can't run that far.

kamile: As if that matters. But

ashley: Yeah, I'm like as if that matters. You know, or one person was like, Well, I get really red faced and I'll look kind of crazy and I don't want you know, I don't want people to see me like that. Yeah. And then also too, you know, people

kamile: and I don't want you know I don't want people to see me like like like colleagues. Yeah yeah. And then also too, you know, people

ashley: that are afraid that they're gonna somehow make it less enjoyable for

kamile: Mm-hmm.

ashley: the rest of the group because of one of the things that I've already mentioned or something else that's in their minds. And I thought that was really interesting to hear why people had these feelings when I know they run, you know, I see I see them going out. And so I was kind of curious why that was.

kamile: interesting to hear why people have these feelings when I know they run. Yeah. You know, I see I see them going out. And so I was kind of curious why that was. Well, I have a example like why a person can feel that way. I have a story from I think it was a year in of my running consistent running journey. And so I signed up for this really cool autumn race with my friend and my friend found it and she convinced me to sign up for it and I was excited, but then

ashley: Yeah, but then

kamile: I think she got sick or something else, so she she couldn't come.

ashley: sick or something else, so she couldn't come. And this race is like a part of this continuous races across across the country and like there's stages and this was one of the last stages and I just thought like I think I signed up for the thinky then. Yeah it was a thank you for sure and I was just like my god like I'm gonna go there and everyone's gonna know that I'm not a runner because they haven't seen me in other races and I'm gonna be the last one because like in the big marathons of the city when you have like thin case it's still like a lot of people sign up just just for the

kamile: And this race is like a part of this continuous races acco across the country and like there's stages and this was one of the last stages and I just thought like I think I signed up for the 10k then. Yeah, it was a 10k for sure. And I was just like, my god, like I'm gonna go there and everyone's gonna know that I'm not a runner because they haven't seen me in other races and I'm gonna be the last one because like in the big marathons of the city when you have like 10ks, it's still like a lot of people signed up just just for the

ashley: Sake of it. Yeah.

kamile: sake of it.

ashley: But where it's like it's it's a sporting event. It's like specifically like a staged running event where more pro people sign up. I was like, no, I'm gonna be the last one. Everyone's gonna make fun of me. I also had like I think I had only trail shoes at that point, and I ran in them and I was like, people will laugh at me that I'm not running my proper shoes, and actually it ended up being a trail. so it was perfect? Yeah, it was perfect.

kamile: But where it's like it's it's a sporting event and it's like specifically like a staged running event where more pro people sign up. I was like, no, I'm gonna be the last one. Everyone's gonna make fun of me. I also had like I think I had only trail shoes at that point and I ran in them and was like, people will laugh at me that I'm not running with proper shoes and actually it ended up being a trail path. Yeah, it was perfect. But like I didn't know it's gonna be that. So I was like, Everyone's gonna make fun of me. My my my pants were like from the cathlon, like cheap running tights. And I was like, everyone's gonna know. Everyone's gonna know and everyone's gonna judge me.

ashley: Meanwhile probably everyone else is wearing very similar things.

kamile: I I have no idea. I didn't even see anyone else's clothes. Like it didn't matter. And then so but I ended up still going and even when I was doing my warm-up before the start of the race and like the first thing that surprised me, I picked up my

ashley: And like the first thing that surprised me, I picked up my

kamile: number and then the people were nice to me and they didn't like think tell me like you don't belong here, why are you here? So that was unexpected.

ashley: actually thought people were gonna question why you were there? Give me the best like look at me I don't belong. Maybe they're say it, but

kamile: Give me the dead stare, look at me like I don't belong. Maybe they're not gonna say it, but you're gonna show it. And then like the the volunteers in the booth were so friendly and they're like, Well, have a good race and so on. And I was like, that's odd. And then I was

ashley: I was like, that's why.

kamile: doing my warm-up and someone looked at me and was my god, don't look at me, I don't know what I'm doing, you know? Even though I've been doing that same warm-up for a year and it

ashley: Yeah.

kamile: was working and it was fine, but just like and so I ran that race. I ended up running, even though I was I had butterflies in my stomach from the beginning, and I did my PR. at that time I think my pace was five fifty three. I haven't done anything at that that speed at that before that. I wasn't really it was really good and I wasn't last and it was such a beautiful run. Like it was such a like it was in the middle of autumn and it was sunny and the trees were changing color and it was so nice. And I remember even like because it was two five K loops.

ashley: time I think my base was five fifty three. Wow anything at that that speed at that before that I was great. It was really good and I wasn't last and it was such a beautiful run. Like it was such a like it was in the middle of autumn and it was sunny and the trees were changing color and it was so nice. And I remember even like because it was two five K loops. So I was doing the second five K loop and I was feeling like okay like I I'm not crashing, I have more energy and I was passing this guy and he looked so upset that I was passing him, he tried to like speed up.

kamile: So I was doing the second five kill loop and I was feeling like okay like I I'm not crashing, I have more energy. And I was passing this guy and he looked so upset that I was passing him. He tried to like speed up and I sped up even more, like for him not to not to catch me and like he didn't. And I was like, What I was think what what was I thinking? Like I I am a runner, I can do this. Why was I imagining all these scenarios in my head? It but it's because I feel like an imposter. Like I feel like

ashley: I sped up even more like to realize him not to catch me and I'm like he didn't and I was like what I was thinking what what was I thinking? Like I I am a runner, I can do this. Why was I imagining all these scenarios in my head? Yeah. Because feel like I'm a busted. Like I feel like it doesn't matter how much I run or how much I've ran and that

kamile: Doesn't matter how much I run or how much I've ran and that I've been doing it for consistently for a year, like I don't belong and everyone will know that as soon as they see me.

ashley: consistently for a year, I I don't belong and everyone will know that. Yeah. As soon as they see me. So you said that the idea of being last was really weighing

kamile: Scary. Yeah.

ashley: on you. Yeah. Why was it important? Like what would be the reason what would be so terrible if you did come in last? Because it

kamile: Because it would be the proof that I'm not a runner, you know. like that was my imagination. Like I if anyone else, if any of my friends or anyone I know, would sign up for a race and then I think it was like one hundred runners there. It wasn't a big race. And they would come last. I would be like, You did this amazing thing and you were the last out of a hundred, but then there's thousands of people that didn't do it. So it doesn't matter. Like you you did really good. You ran thin K. But

ashley: It wasn't a big they would come last. be like, You did this amazing thing and you were the last out of a hundred, but then there's thousands of people that didn't do it. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Like you you did really good. You ran the okay. Yeah, that's because that's exactly what I was thinking, because you know, if you're last, you're just last in that group of people. There are

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: so many other people who were afraid to even try to do this. Because if you were nervous

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: going in, there's probably people that were also nervous who didn't go.

kamile: Yep.

ashley: you know, who could have very much who maybe even could have passed you, you know, and passed that guy. You know?

kamile: Yeah. Yeah.

ashley: And they didn't do it because they were fearful of that. You know, and I think it's a it's a shame and it's

kamile: Yeah, I'm I think it's a it's a shame.

ashley: something that like we need to continue to work on in running. I think it's really difficult in running too, because a lot of times people don't think of running as a sport.

kamile: Hmm.

ashley: I mean it definitely is a sport, right? There's there's athletics, people have world records, it's amazing what

kamile: People have world records. It's amazing.

ashley: they're doing, but it's also something that is incredibly accessible, which is

kamile: Mm-hmm.

ashley: what I think is kind of a cool thing about running, is that it's so accessible. But you don't see people who play hockey every week

kamile: Yeah. But you don't see people who play hockey every week

ashley: saying, I'm not a hockey player. I don't really play

kamile: saying, I'm not a hockey player.

ashley: hockey when they go have a game every week. People would think they're crazy, like you play baseball on the weekends, you know, I'm not a baseball player. No, you would have no problem saying, yeah, I play baseball. This is what I do. So why do we have all these troubles admitting that we're runners?

kamile: People think they're crazy, like you play baseball on the weekends, I'm not a baseball player. Yeah. You have no problem saying, yeah, I play baseball, we have all runners? Yeah, I think it's also maybe a little bit because of the tiers of runners. Like there's the pro category that go to the Olympics and do the Diamond League and reach I don't know, world records and we know about them. Then there's this level of influencers that are sponsored by running brands and we see them running in these events all all over the world, like the big eight now. And

ashley: level of influencers that are sponsored by running brands and we see them running in these events all all over the world, like the big egg now. And

kamile: and then everyone else is kinda like in the same category. So even if you're

ashley: And then everyone else is kinda like in the same category. So even if you're even if you're running like an ultra but you're not super known and you're not winning an ultra, and if you're running next to your home around your house like three kilometers, you're basically the same category. And then like c to compare yourself when you can run only three kilometers and then someone else in the same category is doing sixty or seventy or even more, then you're like, yeah, like what I'm doing doesn't count. Yeah. You know, because what's the actual definition?

kamile: Even if you're running like an ultra, but you're not super known and you're not winning an ultra, and if you're running next to your home around your house like three kilometers, you're basically the same category. And then like to compare yourself when you can run only three kilometers and then someone else in the same category, air quotes, is doing sixty or seventy or even more, then you're like, yeah, like what I'm doing doesn't count. You know, because what's the actual definition? Who's a runner? Like

ashley: A runner,

kamile: If I run in my converses, am I a runner? If I run in a dress, am I a runner? Like do I have to buy running shoes to be a runner? because with other sports like hockey, you b you buy like your stick and your skates and so on and then you do skating and then like, yeah, I have the gear, I I am doing the skill, I am that thing. But running like you don't really need any speci special gear. Yeah, you just need a pair of shoes. Yeah.

ashley: like if I run in my commerces, am I a runner? If I run in a dress, a runner? to buy running shoes to be a runner? Yeah. you because with other sports like hockey, you you buy like your sticking your skates and so on, and then you do skating, and I'm like, Yeah, I have the gear, I I am doing skill, I am that thing. Yeah, you don't really need any special special gear. Yeah, you just need a pair of shoes, really, at the base of it, and you can go out and do it. Which I think is again, like I mentioned, is why it's such a great thing, and like especially how it's got.

kamile: Yeah. Which I think is again like I mentioned is why it's such a great thing and like especially how it's gotten

ashley: gotten so popular in recent years is the accessibility of it, you know, and I think it it it leads to a wide gap. Yeah. You know,

kamile: so popular in recent years is the accessibility of it. Yeah. You know, and I think it it it leads to a wide gap. Yeah.

ashley: like we were talking about at Cape Town, I was talking with some people about running and I said I think there's there's like a there's like three tiers of people that run. There are the elites. So just forget about them. They're gone.

kamile: Cape Town. I was talking with some people about running and I said I think there's there's like a there's like three tiers of people that run. There are the elites, so just forget about They're gone. Yeah. Like, okay, they those are crazy people that do crazy things that we can't do. That's fine. I don't have a problem. Then you have the people that

ashley: Like, okay, they those are crazy people that do crazy things that we can't do. That's fine. I don't have a problem with it. Then you have the people that

kamile: go for a run every once in a while. It's not really important to them, you know, maybe they do

ashley: Go for a run every once in a while. It's not really important to them, you know. Maybe they do it because they run once a week, because it's part of their gym program. they don't identify as runners, but not because of imposter syndrome or anything, just because it's just not important to them. And they're just like, it's just one of the many things I do. And then there's this massive bracket in the middle, which are people who are going from a couch to five K all the way up to people who are running sub three hour marathons.

kamile: they run once a week because it's part of their gym program. they don't identify as runners, but not because of imposter syndrome or anything, just because it's just not important to them. Like, it's just one of the many things I do. And then there's this massive bracket in the middle which are people who are going from a couch to five K all the way up to people who are running sub three hour marathons.

ashley: And yeah, we're all lumped into this one massive

kamile: And yeah, we're all lumped one massive

ashley: group and that's where Yeah, everyone's a passionate

kamile: Just like passionate amateurs.

ashley: amateur, exactly. And at different levels. Some are, you know, more involved than others, but that's where we all live. So it's like how do you how do you fit in there and how do you see yourself? So have you ever felt like you've gone through I mean, you mentioned that that race where you felt like you didn't feel like a runner. Is there any other times where you felt like I'm not a real runner?

kamile: It's constant. Even now, like I've run a marathon and I'm like, I only ran one marathon and not that fast. So it doesn't really count. I'm not a real runner. Who am I to say I'm a runner? And like this kinda like self talk I have all the time in my head. And I have this friend,

ashley: say I'm a runner. And like this kinda like self talk I have all the time in my head. And I have this friend one

kamile: Monica, shout out to you. She texted me that like because I posted something about doing a triathlon on Instagram and she posted that

ashley: She texted me that like because I posted something about doing a trap line on Instagram and she posted that you know like it's so usual for her to see me do athletic things that she doesn't even bat an eye about it. Like she's just so so normal for her. And so like someone else can see me as this athletic person and I myself see myself as like, yeah, like I do run, but am I a runner? And that's actually really bad because you know, like if I talk to myself that way and I talk out loud

kamile: You know, like it's so usual for her to see me do athletic things that she doesn't even bat an eye about it. Like she's just so so normal for her. And so like someone else can see me as this athletic person and I myself see myself as like, Yeah, like I do run, but am I a runner? And that's actually really bad because, you know, like if I talk to myself that way and I talk out loud to someone else, then you know, if they run less, what's gonna happen then? Then they're gonna

ashley: someone else then you know if they run

kamile: You have a friend, right, that you talk to about this?

ashley: less what's gonna happen then then they're gonna you have a friend, right? Yeah, same kind of thing. Yeah. so I was talking to somebody about running and she had

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: just started a little bit and she was asking my recommendations for shoes

kamile: She was asking my recommendations for shoes.

ashley: and things just 'cause she wasn't really liking what she had.

kamile: Hm.

ashley: And she's like, Well tell me about like, you know, how much do you run a week and like what kind of runs do you do? And she was just curious, you know, thinking this is something she wants to get a little bit more into. And a couple of times I said things like, you know, but I'm not really I'm not like really much of a runner. I mean this is this is what I don't expect anxiety. Yeah, I only

kamile: you do and was just curious, you know, thinking she wants to get a little bit more into. And a couple of times I said things like, you know, but not really I'm not like really much of a runner. It says the lady dad runs five times a week. Yeah

ashley: I only run five times a week, which I I I know sounds insane. That sounds insane

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: to say that that I a person who ran five days a week did not identify as a runner. But

kamile: identify as runner.

ashley: I think that shows how much, you know, this can this can affect us. But the point was that she said, you know, have you ever thought that when you say I when I look at you and you say

kamile: you know, this can this can affect us. But the point was that she said, you know, have you ever thought that when you say I when I look at you and you say I run

ashley: I run five days a week, but I'm not really a runner. How does that make me feel? The person who's maybe doing a 3K on a Tuesday and maybe trying to get to a goal of not walking during a 5K run. You know, what does that say about me? Which is funny because then you think back, yeah, like it's that self talk. Like we mentioned, like you would never say to a friend, you're weak. You had to walk. You wouldn't say that to a friend, but when you walk,

kamile: three K on a Tuesday and maybe trying to get to a goal of not walking during a five Kun. Yeah. You know, what does that say about me? Yeah. Which is funny because then you think back, yeah, like it's that self talk. Like we mentioned you would never say to a friend, you're weak. You had to walk. You wouldn't say that to a friend, but when you walk

ashley: You're like thinking, This is terrible, like what is wrong with you? You need to go faster. You know, it's it's that self talk we give ourselves versus other people.

kamile: You're like thinking, This is terrible. Like what is wrong with you? You need to go faster. You know, it's it's that self we give ourselves versus other people. And you would never say that to your friend. I have two friends right now that are they're like starting running and one of them just did a ten K, so amazing for her. But like she started out like a couple of months ago and she could do three kilometers at most and she would share them on Instagram and she would run a three K and share it and I would be like, my god.

ashley: so amazing for her. But like she started out like a couple of months ago and she could do three kilometers at the most and she would share them on Instagram. And she would run a three K and share it and I would be like, my God

kamile: I'm so proud of you. Like you did this amazing thing. Like I I literally was so happy for her and so proud and she was inspiring. And she is still is because she's building up further. And even if she didn't, she was still really inspiring. But like I wasn't posting my runs for a while just because I was like, Well, yeah, I'm running, but I'm not really like increasing my speed that much and like my distance is increasing. Yeah, but like someone else is doing it more.

ashley: so proud like you did this amazing thing like I I literally was so happy for her and so proud and she was inspiring and she is still is because she's building up further and even if she didn't she was still really inspiring. But like I wasn't posting my runs for a while just because I was like well yeah I'm running but I'm not really like increasing my speed that much and like my distance is increasing. Down talking. Yeah but like someone else is doing it more. So it doesn't like it's not posting about. And then when she started posting her kilometers and running because of her and other friends of her started running because of her and people were really inspired by her doing it. And I was like, What the hell am I doing? Yeah. What's wrong with me? Yeah,

kamile: So it doesn't like it's not worth posting about. And then when she started posting her kilometers and then people st like her her sister started running because of her and other friends of her started running because of her and people were really inspired by her doing it. And I was like, what the hell am I doing? Like, what's wrong with me?

ashley: why are why am I talking down to myself about what I'm doing and what I'm achieving? Yeah,

kamile: Yeah. Yeah.

ashley: and I think it's because too it's all this comparison stuff.

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: You know, so I think a lot of people have this imposter syndrome because they think that everyone else is doing better than them. So of course, like Instagram, TikTok,

kamile: they think that everyone else is doing better than them. So of course like t Instagram, TikTok. yeah.

ashley: all of that is constantly feeding you information. I was just talking with some runners the other day and I said something about

kamile: feeding you information. I was just talking with some runners the other day and I said something about

ashley: marathons. And I said, Well, you know, the average marathon time is about four hours and thirty minutes. And they both were shocked.

kamile: Mm. And they both were shocked. Yeah. Because the internet is showing them these people doing sub threes constantly that and that's all these, you know, influencer goals, which who even knows if they're even getting to those goals. Yep. But

ashley: Because the internet is showing them these people doing sub threes constantly that and that's all these, you know, influencer goals, which who even knows if they're even getting to those goals. But yeah, four thirty is like totally normal. That's a totally normal number.

kamile: And that's the number for the people that actually run the marathon. There's so many people that don't. Like that are runners and they don't and then there's so many people that aren't be even running

ashley: There's so many people that don't. Like that are runners and they don't and then there's so many people that are even running.

kamile: and then don't have that capacity. And like four thirty is like the measured time. So if everyone that exists could run a marathon, the average would be like a lot higher. And then you know, like

ashley: And like four thirty is like the measured time. So if everyone that exists could run a marathon, the average would like a lot higher. And then, you know, like

kamile: people imagine that it's so much different. Like everyone's so much faster.

ashley: Imagine it's so much different. And you don't have to run a marathon.

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: Like you can be a runner and never ever run a marathon in your entire life. That's totally fine. There's no need for that. But yeah, so they estimate that

kamile: Yeah. There's no need for that. But yeah, so they estimate that

ashley: right now that about ten percent of the world population

kamile: Mm-hmm.

ashley: could run a 5k without stopping. But only about 3%

kamile: Mm. But only about three percent.

ashley: of people could do a half marathon and 1%

kamile: Mm. And one percent

ashley: of people could do a marathon. But like to your point too, but that's how many people are even trying any of these things. That are registered running. Yeah. Or e or even, you know,

kamile: of people could do a marathon. Mm. But like to your point too, but that's how many people are even any of these things. Yeah. That are registered running. Yeah. Or or even you know

ashley: contemplating doing it and trying to get out there. I think that's a really big amount of people to even think about. We

kamile: Yeah. That's a really big amount of people to even think about.

ashley: we were doing a training run with someone who wasn't doing any running at all and her first goal was to run one K.

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: And she came out with us and as we were going along, I said to her, Look at all these people were passing on the street. You think that they're looking at you and judging you for your running? They're not even trying. They're not even trying. You don't know what they're thinking. They could be thinking like, Wow,

kamile: And she came out with us and as we were going along, I said to her, Look at all these people were passing on the street. You think that they're looking at you and judging you for your running? They're not even trying. Yeah. They're not even trying. You don't know what they're thinking. They could be thinking like wow

ashley: I wish that I had the nerve or the courage to go and try this, you know, and you're actually doing it. You're the badass, you know? I have never

kamile: Try this. Yeah. You know, and you're actually doing it. You're the badass. I I have never like I had a part of my life when I wasn't running and I've always seen people running around and I have never looked at a person running and thought, What a loser you know? Like I always thought like, I wish I was doing that too. And I actually even sometimes get jealous when people run on the state like, I wish I was running right now too. That's the only thing I think about. I never think of like

ashley: Yeah.

kamile: Ooh, his shoes are bad, like he must be not a runner or he's breeding through his mouth, you know. He's so out of shape or whatever.

ashley: breeding through his mouth. Yeah. He's so or whatever. Yeah, one time on a long run I decided that I was gonna wave to every other runner that I saw the whole time,

kamile: Yeah, the whole time.

ashley: just for fun. And a couple people didn't wave back. And I remember then being like seeing one and being like, no, they're in the pain cave. And I wasn't looking at them and thinking they're not a good runner. I was thinking, you poor thing, like I've been there. Like that's a horrible place to be. You'll like

kamile: Yeah. that's a horrible place to be.

ashley: thinking in my mind I wanted to shout like you'll get out of it soon. Like it's okay. You'll survive Survive. But yeah,

kamile: Or they're a beginner. Yeah.

ashley: or they're a beginner, you know, and and also it's like well it'll get better.

kamile: Yeah, and also like does you know, like as a beginner you don't look at other runners because you don't know they're gonna say hi. Actually that reminds me that the first time I allowed myself to think about myself as an actual runner, that I'm like, I'm in the I'm in this club, like I'm I belong, is when I was running and I think it was autumn. It was

ashley: Club like I'm I belong is when I was writing and I think it was what

kamile: definitely cold. I was running with a hat and this runner guy that looked like he's running ultras, like he looked very runner built and dressed and whatever, he waved to me and I was like

ashley: This runner guy that looked like he's running ultra, like he looked very runner built, whatever. He waved to me and I was like, he admitted that I

kamile: He he admitted that I also run, you know.

ashley: But that goes to another thing which a lot of people do with imposter syndrome is they think they don't look like a runner.

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: And like what does it mean to look like a runner? I think that obviously, yeah, the elites, there's this like thin, lean, maybe tall, you know, idea of like what a runner is. But I think too, with running

kamile: Mm-hmm.

ashley: becoming more and more popular, you are seeing a lot more people that don't necessarily fit into that. physique and have that specific look to them. and I think that's great, but you know, just because you have a certain weight or you have a certain way

kamile: Mm-hmm and have that specific look to them. Yep. and I think that's great. But you know, just because you have a certain weight, or you have a certain

ashley: of running, that doesn't change the fact that you're still a runner. Yeah,

kamile: still a runner. all comes into the running economy and the running economy is how much energy you use for the distance you run. And it's based like on weight. So like your running economy is for a kilogram

ashley: Mm. And it's based like on weight. So like your running economy is for two a gram a

kamile: of your body weight. So you can be a big person or you can be a small person, but then your running economy doesn't change because of your bigness or your smallness. And it's still per kilogram of your body weight. So it's it's that

ashley: So you can be a big person or you can be a small person, but then your running economy doesn't change because of your bigness or your smallness. And it's still per kilogram of your body weight. So it's it's that that that's why the calculation doesn't matter if you're big or small. if you're a bigger runner, then you use more energy for the same amount of distance, like more calories you would be using. But like that's still fine. Like and you can lose the weight and then might your pace might increase and then you might

kamile: Like that's why the calculation doesn't matter if you're big or small. if you're a bigger runner, then you use more energy for the same amount of distance, like the more calories you would be using. But like that's still fine. Like and you can lose the weight and then might your pace might increase and then you might use a little less calories, but then that doesn't change your running economy. It's still per kilogram, so it's still the same running economy. And the things that do matter are like

ashley: use little less calories, but then that doesn't change your running economy. It's still per kilogram, so it's still the same running economy. And the things that do matter are like if you bounce and if you your legs are stiff, that stiffness actually is good because then your legs work a little bit like a spiral or your cadence. We should talk about all of these metrics in a future episode, just like explaining running economy and what's important and what to think about. But it doesn't really actually matter as much in the end. Like we don't know how much it matters because we know about

kamile: if you bounce and if you your legs are stiff, that stiffness actually is good because then your legs work a little bit like a spiral or your cadence. And I think we should talk about all of these metrics in a future episode, just like explaining running economy and what's important and what to think about. But it doesn't really actually matter as much in the end. Like we don't know how much it matters because we know about

ashley: These super famous runners. Like there's this guy called Connor

kamile: these super famous runners. Like there's this guy called Connor Mance and he's the fastest USA men's marathon runner. And I don't know if you ever saw a video of him running. No. He looks he looks weird. Sorry. If you ever hear this Connor Mance, but like he does not look good

ashley: Man Connor Mans, and he's the fastest USA men's marathon runner. And I don't know if you ever saw a video running. No, he looks he looks weird. Sorry, if you ever hear this Connor Mans, but he does not look good.

kamile: while he's running. Like he he breaks a lot of running economy rules and he still is the fastest man men's marathoner in America, in USA. And then also you know about Paula Yeah, Paula Rackley.

ashley: man men's marathoner in America. Yeah, that's in the USA. And then also you know about Paula Yeah, Paula Radcliffe, because I know that she's a really famous one for it because they say that Paula runs funny. She was

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: a world record marathon runner for years and years, but she like bobs her head. Yeah, right? Yeah, and it looks very funny. so much, and then like technically wasted while it's running. And like if you were a marathon

kamile: Yeah. But she like bobs her head. Yeah, yeah, and looks very funny. Like she bobs so much and then like technically that's energy being wasted whilst running. And like if you were an amateur runner, then people might look at you and like, your your your economy's bad. Maybe you're not a runner. But actually

ashley: Actually it

kamile: it doesn't matter as much as we think and changing those kind of things, changing the way you run, where you hold your hand.

ashley: And changing those kind of things, changing the way you

kamile: So w how your head bobs or whatever, that actually might hinder your running because you will have to think about it. You c you'll get more stiff and the most important thing whilst running is running relaxed. Yeah.

ashley: run, where you hold your hands or how your head bobs or whatever, that actually might hinder your running because you will have to think about it. Yeah, so if you're trying to alter your natural state, you burn

kamile: Yeah,

ashley: even more calories. And I think more important than that is the mental work that you're doing because you're telling yourself that you're somehow doing something wrong.

kamile: Yeah. That because you're telling yourself that you're somehow doing something wrong. Yeah. When you're not, running. I think that in the end it should all be down to making yourself feel as comfortable as you possibly can. Yeah. And as long as

ashley: When you're not, you're just running. And I think that in the end it should all be down to making yourself feel as comfortable as you possibly can.

kamile: you're not like running into an injury. Like there's there are some things you could do, like over striding that could lead to injury over time, but not necessarily. It depends on how you run and how much you run and how much you increase stuff. But like most of these things

ashley: There's there are some things you could do like over striking that could lead to injury over time, but not necessarily depends on how you run and how much you run and how much you increase stuff. But like most of these things don't matter as much as we think. And also if you're not gonna be a pro marathon or any kind of

kamile: don't matter as much as we think. And also if you're not gonna be a pro matter toner or any kinda like Olympian, it's just like just running is quite natural to us and we know how to run and you just do it as you're most comfortable.

ashley: It's just like just running is quite natural to us and know how to run and you just do it as you're most comfortable. Yeah, and I've even like 'cause they talk a lot about how in marathons, say someone runs in two hours and thirty minutes and someone else runs in five hours and thirty minutes. What also is

kamile: In marathons, say someone runs in two hours and thirty minutes, and someone else runs in five hours and thirty minutes. What also is happening

ashley: happening in the five hour and thirty minute person is as you mentioned, obviously they're burning more calories.

kamile: Is as you mentioned, obviously they're burning more calories. They're spending way more time on their feet. There are people that run 230s who would not be able to sustain being on their feet for five hours and thirty minutes. You know, when you are practicing for marathon running and you are an average runner, you might be going on a long run that could be three to four hours long on a Saturday in your regular life. Well those people

ashley: They're spending way more time on their feet. There are people that run two thirties who would not be able to sustain being on their feet for five hours and thirty minutes. You know, when you are practicing for marathon running and you are an average runner, you might be going on a long run that could be three to four hours long on a Saturday in your regular life. Well, those people would be going out for an hour and a half. So, you know, what what about that says that you're not a real runner? I'm not

kamile: Yeah. So, you know, what what about that says that you're not a real runner? I'm not

ashley: really sure. Nothing at all. I think too, like there's another thing, which is that a lot of people have these negative connotations and associations of running from their past. I as I mentioned earlier,

kamile: really sure. Yeah. Nothing. Nothing at all. I think too, like there's another thing, which is that a lot of people have these negative connotations and associations of running from their past. I as I mentioned earlier,

ashley: in another episode, I started running as an adult.

kamile: I started running as an adult. I never ran as a kid, and the mile was something we had to do every year. That was a nightmare. We'll run one mile, so like 1600 meters. And that for me as a girl, you know, especially living in the 80s, 90s life, that just made me think that I was fat

ashley: I never ran as a kid and the mile was something we had to do every year. That was the nightmare. You had to go run one mile, so like sixteen hundred meters. And that for me as a girl, you know, especially living in n eighties, nineties life, that just made me think that I was fat.

kamile: and that I was horrible.

ashley: And that I was horrible and all these things, and it was just like horrible feelings. So I think lots and lots of people had that, men and women both. also, too, there are other people who were sporty, but running was a form of punishment. So the girl that I mentioned where she wanted to run one K, she was a basketball player. And so what happens when you do something wrong in basketball? Yeah, well, you have to go run laps.

kamile: And all these things, but was just like horrible feelings. So I think lots and lots of people had that, men and women both. also too, there are other people who were sporty, yeah, but running was a form of punishment. Yeah. So the girl that I mentioned where she wanted to run one K, she was basketball player. And so what happens when you do something wrong in basketball? You get a foul? Okay.

ashley: training. You have to go run laps and they'll make you run laps. And so that was punishment. Running was something you had to do because you didn't do something right in practice for the game. So it becomes another it's a form of punishment to go for a run.

kamile: So practice for the game. So it becomes another it's a form of punishment to go for a so then starting off like you that's the association you have. It's it's punishment, it's torture, it's something really, really bad for you. And like running is hard, like running is uncomfortable sometimes, but it shouldn't be it shouldn't feel like a punishment. Yeah, and so even if you're like thinking to yourself, Okay, no, I want to do this, it's still in the back of your mind. So maybe when the time gets tough you start thinking

ashley: Yeah. And so even if you're like thinking to yourself, okay, no, I want to do this, it's still in the back of your mind. So maybe when the time gets tough, you start thinking, Well, I'm not really a runner, because you know, runners are these fast people that I'm not,

kamile: Because the runners are these fast people that I'm

ashley: and and I have these f emotions from my past of it being punishment, you know, it's it it's a lot to deal with. But I think regardless of how much you run distance-wise or how many times a week you run.

kamile: punishment, you know, it's a it it's a lot to deal with. But I think regardless of how much you run distance wise or how many times a week you run.

ashley: you know, you're out there and you're running and that makes you a runner. That

kamile: Yeah. That is my definition. You're out there and you're running.

ashley: is my definition. You're out there and you're running. 'cause yeah, the status isn't really the status isn't that important. I mean, you know, I don't run enough, I don't run enough races, I only run once or twice a week. I mean we have a great example right now, which is like that you just said at the beginning of this episode that this week, you know, life got in the

kamile: So that's this week you know.

ashley: way and there were other things and you couldn't run the way you wanted to.

kamile: Yeah. And like I prepared for my marathon, which isn't the best idea, so people don't do it if you hear me say this, but I prepared for my marathon running twice a week. I did twice a week consistently, then sometimes I would do another fifteen minute run on a treadmill, but most weeks I ran two times and I then ended up running a marathon. So even running twice a week you can

ashley: weeks I ran two times and ended up running a marathon. So even running twice a week you

kamile: you are a runner. Once a week you are a runner. You run once a month, you still are a runner. Like

ashley: Once week you're a runner, you run once a month, you still are a runner. Like I don't think like the term even matters as much that to call yourself a runner, but just like some people gatekeep it from other you are not a runner if you're dad or whatever. And then I think that's important to be like, no, like you're allowed to run your

kamile: I didn't think like the term even matters as much that you call yourself a runner, but just like some people gatekeep it from others. You you are not a runner of your dad or whatever. And then I think that's important to be like no, like you are allowed to run, you're allowed to talk about it, you're allowed to have an opinion, you have allowed to do all these things and you're not an imposter doing it. Because there's always like a category of people just like you. You just you kinda have to find them. Yeah. Yeah. And again, because comparison.

ashley: and you're not an it. Because there's always like a cabin gotta kinda have to find them. Yeah, yeah. And again, because comparison is the thief of joy. So

kamile: Mm-hmm.

ashley: you shouldn't compare yourself to other people and their running experiences and I mean not everyone is Not everyone is super helpful and understanding, you know, when you go running. Sometimes you can come across people that might have attitude or like ideas, but they usually get theirs in the end. Like I had this story where

kamile: understanding running. Sometimes you can come across people that might have attitude or like ideas, but they usually get theirs in the end. Like

ashley: I was running I mentioned at the beginning that I was doing the hill reps where I run up that hundred meter hill and I was in that same park and I was running

kamile: So I run up that hundred meter hill. And I was in that same park and I was running

ashley: pretty easy. I was, you know, taking a nice

kamile: Pretty easy. I was, you know, taking a nice leisurely type, kind of an easy run that week. I'd had a rough week and I knew that hill was coming and it was gonna kind of cap off the run. So I was just running along at an easy pace and there's nobody else in the park really. It's pretty open and empty. I'm running on a kind of like a road surface, so it's very nice. And this girl kind of cuts me off. She runs past me, kind of cutting me off. Yeah.

ashley: leisurely type kind of an easy run that week. I'd had a rough week and I knew that hill was coming and it was gonna kind of cap off the run. So I was just running along at an easy pace and there's nobody else in the park really. It's pretty open and empty. I'm I'm running on a kind of like a road surface, so it's very nice. And this girl kind of cuts me off on her she runs past me kind of cutting me off. kind of in this you're slow kind of way

kamile: in this you're slow kind of way. And

ashley: And I and I looked at her as she's running away from me and I just thought like, you know, that's not like a good mindset to have. You shouldn't be putting yourself out there that way, you know? But I just kept running at my own pace and she's just running away from me as she goes.

kamile: I and I looked at her as she's running away from me and I just thought like, you know, that's not like a good mindset to have you should be putting yourself out there that way, you know? But I just kept running at my own pace and she's just running away from me and she goes

ashley: And then the hill approaches and she s runs maybe ten, fifteen meters at the most up the hill, and then she starts to walk.

kamile: And then the hill approaches and she s runs maybe ten, fifteen meters at the most up the hill, and then she starts

ashley: And then I just glide right past her, running up the hill. Right.

kamile: to walk. And then I just glide right past

ashley: And I just got to the top. I never looked back. But I I just it

kamile: But I I just

ashley: made me feel strong as a runner because

kamile: Mm.

ashley: when that was put there that, you know, you're not so great. Look at me. I'm so I'm really strong. I was able to show that I, you know, I have it in me and that and I am a real runner. I don't think that happens to everybody every day, but I think it's an example of

kamile: Everybody every day.

ashley: like having a positive mindset and understanding that we're all on our own journeys and and if you're gonna have that attitude some day some old lady's gonna fly past you up the hill.

kamile: Some day some old lady's gonna fly

ashley: So I think in the end it's important to remember that if you run, you're a runner, which means that you are an athlete and you should treat yourself like an athlete. You should respect your body and you should respect your mind for the thing that you're doing. You need to accept that running is hard for everyone. And no matter who you are, if you get out there and run, you're a runner. And I think that goes down to redefining success. take yourself seriously as an athlete. Think about hydration, think about fueling, think about everything and why it's important,

kamile: Seriously, as an athlete, think about hydration, think about fueling, think about everything and why it's important.

ashley: whether you go out for fifty minutes or five hours or five minutes, right? Regardless, you're running, you're out there, you're putting in the work, and you're a runner just like us.

kamile: or five hours or five Regardless, you're running, you're out there, you're putting in the work and you're a runner just like us. Yeah, and you're allowed to be there.

ashley: You're allowed to be or exactly. I think that takes us to the win of the week, which also I just want to say with the win of the week, the thing that I loved about this was that this is somebody who is talking about not being afraid to fail. Yeah, that is

kamile: takes the win of week, which also I just want to say with the win of the week, the thing that I loved about this was that this is somebody who is talking about not being afraid to fail. Yeah, that is Josh Kerr, isn't it?

ashley: Josh Kerr, isn't it? Yeah, Josh Kerr. So big, big deal in athletics this week. Josh

kamile: Big big deal in athletics this week.

ashley: Kerr broke the world record for the mile.

kamile: Mm, yeah.

ashley: Which is a little over sixteen hundred meters. I think it's like sixteen eight.

kamile: No

ashley: He did it in three minutes forty two seconds sixty six.

kamile: Two seconds sixty six. Do you know what was the record before that? Yeah, it was

ashley: Yeah, it was three forty three thirteen which happened in nineteen ninety nine.

kamile: Which happened in nineteen ninety nine. yeah, he broke the record that hasn't been changed since nineteen ninety nine.

ashley: Yeah, 27 years, which is crazy. I think he was a baby when that happened. very, very wild. He did it in the Diamond League in London. He had announced it in March that he was going to attempt this record. I think it's a pretty amazing. it shows that it's mental barriers, right? Because back in the day, we thought that humans couldn't run a sub four minute.

kamile: this record. Okay. I think it's a pretty amazing it shows that it's mental barriers, right? Because back in the day humans couldn't run a sub four minute. Yep. And now these people are doing it like every day. Yeah. Well

ashley: And now these people are doing it like every day.

kamile: it's also like probably like it's it's also mindset like because yeah when no one could do a a sub

ashley: It's it's also mindset like because yeah, when no one would do a sub

kamile: four mile and then when the per the first person did it like everyone started doing it. Yeah. But

ashley: Yeah, Roger Bannistered it. Yeah. But also it's like

kamile: Also, it's like probably stuff like you know, we know more about nutrition

ashley: You know, we know more about nutrition.

kamile: and we know how recover better and you know shoes the super shoes. I don't know when the the super shoes came out originally, we should Google that, but that also adds up and then all the suits you thought to wear, like the outfits. The 80s outfits were so funny, like they were like these baggy clothes, right? And so there's a lot of little things, like little

ashley: Shoes. Shoes, the super shoes. I don't know when the the super shoes came out originally, we should Google that, but that also adds up in an old suit see that they wear like the outfits. The eighties outfits were so funny, like they were like these baggy clothes, right? And so there's a lot of little things like little

kamile: one percents that add up to this being possible now. But yes, mindset is

ashley: that add up to this being possible now. But yes, mindset is I think it's more than one percent. Yeah. And then yeah, him him saying that he will do it, I think is you think you can do it, then you have a lot more chance of doing that's

kamile: I think it's more than one percent. And then yeah, him him saying that he will do it, I think it's like when you think you can do it, then you have a lot more chances of doing it.

ashley: the first step. Yeah, the first step is saying I can do this

kamile: Yeah.

ashley: and then working towards the goal. And like I said, he mentioned that he was not afraid to fail.

kamile: fail. Mm

ashley: Which means that he was gonna put everything out there. And if it didn't happen, it's okay because you can try again. Which I think that all runners can take into their mindset. You know, I had a goal for my marathon. I did not get my goal.

kamile: which means that he was gonna put everything out there. And if it didn't happen, it's okay because you can try again. Yeah. Which I think that all runners can take into their mindset. Yeah. You know, I had a goal for my marathon. I did not get my goal. Yeah.

ashley: I'm actually totally fine with it. I had an amazing race. There was lots of crazy stuff happening, you know, but it was great. I really enjoyed it. And so I look and I go, It's okay, you know, but next time, yep, I'm going right back there. I have that same goal planned. where I'm like, I'm ashamed to share my goal out loud. Why is that?

kamile: I'm actually totally fine with it. I had an amazing race. There was lots of crazy stuff happening, you know. But it was great. I really enjoyed it. And so I look and I go, It's okay, you know, but next time, back there. Yeah. I have that same goal plan. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's important for mindset. I even I have this thing where I'm like I'm ashamed to share my goal out loud because like people will like if I fail, people will know that I failed and you know, failing is unacceptable. I cannot fail. That's

ashley: Hm.

kamile: not who I am. I am not a failure, which is a very bad mindset, I know. And then I'm trying to get a little bit better at this of like publicly saying like I'm gonna attempt this or even with my

ashley: Yeah.

kamile: marathon, I had secret goals in my mind but I wasn't sharing them because it's like if I don't do them, you know, like I don't want people to know. So what's

ashley: So what's your five K goal?

kamile: your five here? I wanna do a sub twenty five, which I think is very realistic because I did like twenty five five, I think the fastest I've done.

ashley: Nice.

kamile: So I wanna do less than that. And I like I I cannot attempt a sub twenty because I cannot run four million kilometers even if I try real hard. Sub twenty four? yeah.

ashley: Sub twenty four? yeah.

kamile: Sw sub twenty-four would be nice. Yeah. Twenty-three something. That's my goal.

ashley: Yeah, twenty three something.

kamile: If I feel good, if I run good, if the weather is good, if I sleep well and so on, that is feasible. And I'm gonna attempt it. Mm-hmm. Yeah,

ashley: Mm. So you have multiple goals. You have like your A B C goal? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

kamile: so twenty three something is A and then twenty four something is B and C is just doing it. Yeah, yeah. I think C should always be just doing it. That's how

ashley: And C is just doing it. Yeah, and yeah, I think C should always be just doing it. That's how I I was with the marathon as well. but I was afraid to tell people my goal too, because people would say, do you have a set time? I did. Four seventeen. That was the number I wanted.

kamile: People would say, do you have a set time? I did. Four seventeen. That was the number I

ashley: The reason was my last marathon was five seventeen. And I had

kamile: yeah. And I had

ashley: had significant improvement over the course of time. And I just thought how beautiful it would be to have a easy one hour round number. But I was afraid to tell people that. So I just would say something like, Well, I hope to get under four hours and thirty minutes. you know, we'll see.

kamile: had significant improvement over the course of time. Yeah. And I just saw how beautiful it would be to have a easy one hour round number. Yeah. But I was afraid to tell people that. So I just would say something like, Well, I hope to get under four hours and thirty minutes.

ashley: And then I ended up actually doing four thirty one, which wasn't even that. It

kamile: Hmm. which wasn't even that. It wasn't the bee.

ashley: wasn't B. but in the end I had C, which was

kamile: Doing it.

ashley: I'm going to the other side of the world and I'm gonna run a dream marathon and I did it.

kamile: And you still improve your previous time by a long shot.

ashley: Yeah, I still I still did it by forty two minutes. Which is phenomenal. Yeah.

kamile: Yeah. Which is which is insane. It's it's insane to cut so much time off your marathon. Well I hope to continue on that path. So

ashley: Well, I hope to continue on that path. So and I really look forward to seeing el what else Josh Kerr is gonna do. I'm also curious because Jakob Ingerbritsen, who's his kind of rival speaking to speak Yeah, they they definitely

kamile: Mm. I'm also curious because Jakob Ingerbertson, who's his kind of rival. Yeah, they both speak the speak. Is that the expression?

ashley: have something going on there. He's like on his way back because he had an injury, a serious one. so he's been out of the game, so to speak, for

kamile: been out of the game, so to speak.

ashley: a while. But I know he's back running again. I've seen some stuff on him. So, It'll be interesting to see where that goes. Exciting times. Very exciting times.

kamile: See where that goes. Exciting times. Very exciting Thanks for listening. We hope you will rate, review, and subscribe to help get the word out. We'll be out with a new episode soon. You can find us wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

ashley: Subscribe to help out. We'll be out for a new episode soon. You can find us wherever you get your favorite podcast. And you can follow us at running on empty underscore pod on Instagram or get in touch through our website, running onempty pod dot com for the latest news and episode info.

kamile: Okay, love you. Keep running. Bye.

ashley: P