speaker-0: Welcome back to the Professional Fundraiser Podcast. I'm your host, Gillian, and we're here today to talk about the power of company culture. More specifically, how the company culture at TPF is shaped and how it inspires us to be better at what we do every single day.

speaker-2: you

speaker-0: The Professional Fundraiser Podcast takes you behind the scenes of our agency, from exploring fundraising strategy and how an organization like ours operates to hearing real stories from our fundraisers out in the field, as well as sharing wider insights from across the sector. So if you're ready, let's get started.

speaker-1: you

speaker-0: I'm here with Angela and Kelvin. Angela is our people manager, part of the leadership team here at TPF. And as you know, Kelvin is our founder and CEO. Today's episode will be a conversation on what our company culture means to Kelvin and Angela, and how they've worked together on making TPF a great place to work. So, Angela and Kelvin, take it away!

speaker-2: This is the first time I've seen you today. On what is a grotty, grotty day out there. I'm in short sleeves, but it is a bleak and grey day out there. I didn't have any. ⁓ I was in the Lake District last week and I mean was, the rain was torrential. It was torrential rain. Yeah.

speaker-1: It is, it is. You didn't bring any sunshine back with you. ⁓

speaker-2: Yeah, it really was. So I have bought the grey skies and the rain back with me as well.

speaker-1: We really appreciate that. Thank you.

speaker-2: We're talking about culture. Are we qualified to be talking about culture, do you think?

speaker-1: We are. We are. I'm not sure. I I like to think we are, but I guess some of these things that we say in this podcast will either tell us one way or another, I guess.

speaker-2: Oh, you know, times, times top 100. We was told that a couple of weeks ago. Absolutely. Actually, it's not top 100. I always thought it was. I always thought it was times top 100 best small companies to work with. But there's 195 of us. we're, we're somewhere in a longer list. Yeah, it's 195.

speaker-1: I thought they classed it as the top 100. suppose top 95 hasn't got the same ring to it really.

speaker-2: See you soon. It hasn't quite, but we're somewhere, we're somewhere within the list, so we must be doing something right. But what does, what is culture to you?

speaker-1: Yeah, 100%. think for me, culture needs to be more than a buzzword. It has to be about how it's a feeling. I think when you come to work, it's about how you feel coming into work and how you're treated or even sometimes mistreated because, you know, culture doesn't always have to be positive. There can be a negative connotation around culture and how people, you know, feel about the business and the people that they work for. for me, I think it's just making sure that there is a focus on on the feeling and I think you can say you've got a positive culture when people feel like they want to come to work and they don't get the Sunday scare is when they know they've got to come in on a Monday morning.

speaker-2: I had the Sunday Scaries last night. Or maybe it was just after a week off, just that thought of, don't know, I'm quite relaxed at the moment here, you know, but I love being here. I love being in the office. really do. I get a real kick. I get a real buzz out of it. And it's the people that do that actually. And I think it's always the people that help to form a culture. Somebody said to me once before is that you can't create culture. Culture isn't something you can create. You can only create an environment. in which a culture organically, organically emerges.

speaker-1: Yeah, which feeds into that feeling, isn't it? It's about how they feel about coming in and the people that they work with and having those relationships with each other and to look forward to seeing each other and what the collaboration of the week brings. think that's what a positive culture means.

speaker-2: I wonder if there's a danger with that. We live in a very changing world now. And when we talk about topics like diversity and inclusion, if I go back 15, 20 years and you spoke to any recruitment agency out there, they'd always say the skill set is one thing, but then we look at the will fit. And I think within that, they was always referring to, OK, so what's it like to work here? What's the culture? And they're sort of almost trying to get people in the shadow of those who were working there. Whereas I think that's a term that any good recruitment agent has become increasingly uncomfortable with over the years. And therefore, does this really sort of positive impact for workplace culture actually then run a risk of meaning you do just continue to recruit people in the shadow of who's there rather than having a really diverse culture?

speaker-1: Yeah, think because obviously culture means so many different things to different people, doesn't it? You know, when you talk about culture to one person, it could just be about how they feel about coming to work for others. It could be a safe space that they feel they're in. So they may not want to come through the door, but actually when they're through the door, they feel safe and they feel like they can have ⁓ their voice to be heard. And I think that's probably what we do. One of the best, better things that we do here at TPF is that everybody has a voice. regardless of where they sit within the leadership, you know, no idea is a silly idea and even if actually it is a silly idea, you're never made to feel like it's a silly idea and you shouldn't have said it. And I think that feeds into the positive culture because everyone feels safe and that's, I think, is the most important thing. I always say a job should never make you feel sad, it should never make you feel anxious, it should never make you feel scared. So I think if you don't feel those things, you're working in a place that creates a positive culture. ⁓ And I think you can surround yourself with very similar people, but we do that in our everyday lives. We tend to socialize with people who have similar interests to us. So I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with that. I think we should look at diversity in different ways because it's about a diversity of thoughts, not necessarily about a diversity of interest.

speaker-2: Yeah, no, completely agree. What was happening within my mind as you were speaking there, because you spoke about it being safe and you might have heard me actually, before coming up here and doing a podcast, I was asking those in the office, if you were to describe our workplace culture, how would you describe it? And I was quite surprised actually by some of the results or some of what people said. We had the people sort of say, oh yes, it's very family orientated, it's very caring. And I kind of expected that. But the reason why I say it is a little bit surprising is because I differentiate between, let's say, workplace culture and organisational culture. And I think a lot of people described it actually as being safe. And I said, well, what does that really mean? And they spoke about psychological safety, or they spoke around feeling ⁓ included. And a lot of people came out and said, yeah, inclusion is a really big part. And a lot of people also said around ideas and actually having the voice and as you said, no ideas are bad idea and they really feel as though they have a voice here to be able to express those ideas as well. And then there are some slightly more sort of surprising ones around say innovation, know, people spoke about being a modern company, about being really relevant, about being very sort of innovative and different. ⁓ And I say that that wasn't what I was expecting. I was expecting people to perhaps turn around and say, ⁓ yes, it's fun here. It's very family orientated. We have great Christmas socials. we do, we do. I love a Christmas social. But it's kind of, know, free fruit and snacks is not culture and that's not what makes culture. And I think sometimes that's always where people get a bit misguided around it and they say, ⁓ yeah, we have a great company culture. We always go out for drinks on a Friday. And it's like, no, no, that's not culture. That's going out for a drink on a Friday. That's doing something social. That helps to create a culture, but that in itself isn't culture.

speaker-1: Yeah, think, you know, culture means so many different things to different people, doesn't it? It can also mean that understanding of a work life balance and a family life. But you do sometimes then have the tendency to be to one way rather than the other. And you can miss out a little bit on the on the goals of the organization as well. But yeah, I think definitely much more than free, free fruit and snacks and water and stuff. But but actually, some people need that to help them build that. that culture because again, they do feel they're in a safe space. They may not for whatever reason be able to have those snacks or fruit and stuff at home. So actually coming in and being able to have that makes them feel safe and secure in their workplace.

speaker-2: It was odd, mean, I say it was odd, probably isn't that odd at all actually, but it's only because you said there, it's about free fruit and snacks. And what we haven't got here is Mars bars and a vending machine, you we're not throwing out 10 tons of chocolate. These are healthy snacks and it's healthy fruit. And a lot of what we do has that real sort of focus on sustainability as well. But actually nobody turned around and said, ⁓ yeah, our culture is all about sustainability. So there's probably a degree to which we haven't gone far enough with that. to be able to sort of people to really sort of live it and breathe it every day to feel as though, yes, this is a part of our culture. Whereas things like inclusion and diversity of thought and having a voice, I think is very loud and clear within our organization and maybe because there's been that focus there, that's why people feel it. ⁓ But I suppose it begs the question as to just what makes organizational culture.

speaker-1: Like I say, different. you talk there about the, you know, the things that we talk about. I think sometimes something that we don't necessarily do well is pat ourselves on the back for the things that we do on an everyday. So I think those things like sustainability, I think is, is there and everyone is, that's, that's just the way we do things. It doesn't matter that it's got a sustainability label because actually that's just what, what we do. And that's what helps to breed that positive culture. Because it isn't, like I said at the beginning, it shouldn't be a buzzword. And things like feeding into sustainability shouldn't be a tick box exercise. It should be everyday life and part of the norm. Because that is then what will breed that positive culture.

speaker-2: It's interesting what you say to us there because for me, that's exactly what culture is. I think if you said to somebody, how do you describe culture, then they've actually really struggled to answer that question, what is culture? But for me, it's how things are really done, just on a day-to-day basis. What does real life look like here within this organization? And my example of that is kind of what you said earlier on, it's that culture doesn't have to be positive. Sometimes it's a negative thing. So if we think about, let's just say hospitals or care, because they always come under the spotlight, especially when that care element has really been lacking and you see it reported in the media and they sort of report to say it was the culture, there was a lack of care within this home because that was the culture that pervaded here. And I think that's how important that culture is, but it's not what's said on a website. It's not about wages. It's not about staff refreshments or anything else. It's this culmination of so many things that breeds a culture which lands to how things are really done.

speaker-1: I think a positive culture is also how things are dealt with and what you will allow to happen within your organization because we always want to treat everyone with respect and dignity. And if there's somebody within that business that isn't treating their fellow team member with dignity and respect, part of the culture is how we deal with that. And we don't do it as, ⁓ you know, you're not a very nice person, so therefore we need to... exit you from the business it's about finding out why that's why they are behaving the way they are and what can we do to to enable them to make the changes that they need to so i think that's part of the positive culture as well it isn't just about the niceties it is about how you deal with things when they are aren't so nice and you know to leave a positive feeling on somebody even if they have had to leave the business for whatever reason i think that's part of the positive culture for sure

speaker-2: We have an expression, you're going to be familiar with this because we've both done our leadership training together. And one of the expressions that we had there, which is management is a process and leadership is the experience. And again, think people forget that. And I think that's what culture is. It's about behaviors. It's about the behaviors that we demonstrate. ⁓ And all of that helps to sort of generate this culture there within an organization. And it reminded me actually ⁓ of a seminar that I went to and it was around organizational values. And I remember the speaker saying that what values are is a promise between two parties. And what underlines all of this is trust at the end of the day. And trust is built on the promises we make ⁓ and trust is eroded on the promises that we break. And I think that's what underlines organizational culture as well. know, that's trust is the actual foundation and that's got to be there and the psychological safety has got to be there because when the trust isn't, then you can't build on top of that.

speaker-1: It's exactly the same in a relationship outside of the workplace, isn't it? Or your own personal relationships. Trust has to be the foundation of it. And if you don't have a strong foundation of trust, everything you build on top of that is going to be rocky. And that's exactly the same outside as well as inside of work. I think trust becomes an integral part of company culture. Trust in each other, trust in our leaders. and you know trust in our workforce here out there who we don't have you know vision of all communication with every single day actually we trust them because they're out there and they're they're representing us a representing our charity partners and we don't have a worry about them we're not thinking what are they saying we know that the culture that they experience when they come to induction here carries them forward to outside into the field so that we know the trust is there in us for them to be able to deliver what we've set them off the path with.

speaker-2: That's the, I suppose, why first impressions are so important within an organization as well, because that sets the tone straight away. So somebody who's brand new to an organization coming into induction, you know, is it methodical? Is it well organized? Is it engaging? What's being covered within this space? What's the environment like? And, you know, I think for us at Professional Fundraiser, We say, yes, we're a really professional organization. We're very quality driven. We are all about the use people first. And we need to be able to showcase that. And I think that we do showcase that very much because actually that's setting the standard for everybody else to say, OK, I get now what this organization is about. I understand the behaviors because I see everybody else exhibiting those on a daily basis. And they understand better almost kind of what's required from them. And for some people, And we've had this, we've had this where people have said, know, Kelvin's asking far too much of individuals here, you know, I can't perform at that level. And they've made the decisions that this organization isn't for them. But that's probably where values haven't aligned. And I think, again, you know, we talked about trust being a foundation for culture, but probably that alignment of values is as well.

speaker-1: And you know, I do, as you know, I do the fundraiser inductions, well, I do all the inductions for new starters. And that's certainly something that is shown all the way through. You know, you always come in and you know their name and you shake their hand and... That's not easy. No, I know. But you still take the time to do that. And actually, some of the feedback that I've had from especially from fundraisers have been like, ⁓ my goodness, I don't even see, I haven't even seen my team manager for months if I've joined a new organisation. The fact that

speaker-2: See you

speaker-1: the CEO is coming in and shook my hand or the fact that I can meet the head of IT ⁓ and I can have this time. makes them feel valuable before they even start out on their path with us. So we were already embedding actually what it means to be a member of the professional fundraiser, you know, to be a team member of this wonderful organization and how that then sets them off. And hopefully they carry that through. every single day they're working and remember those things remember that positive culture that that they witnessed when they first came for induction and you know an expectation setting anyone can be a fundraiser but not everyone can be a tp fundraiser saying you know and that's

speaker-2: 100%, 100%. And I think there's that contract coming into play again is to say that actually we will create this environment for you. We will do all of this for you, but this is what we expect in return. And again, there's that promise between the two parties coming into play. And hopefully what they see is, yeah, TPF really looks after its staff. It's a very personable organization. They're always there to listen. They always aim and intend to be doing the right thing. And in return, they want me to be exhibiting those behaviors out in the field as well.

speaker-1: And you know, we don't always get things right and I think that's also sometimes a challenge to admit that we haven't always got things right. But actually, then how we change that, we don't carry on doing things even though they're wrong because we want to or because it was somebody's idea. It's all about making those changes to make things better for us and that it's okay to have got things wrong. It's how you then change that and move forward, think is the key there, which also feeds into that positive feeling that people get.

speaker-2: But how does any organization create that culture that makes people really feel safe in holding up their hand and saying, yeah, I've screwed up here, I've made a mistake? Because I think as human beings, we naturally go to a place of, I've made a mistake here, I don't want to own up to that. Not because they think they're going to get into trouble, but sometimes it's just pure embarrassment maybe as well. ⁓ So you hide it, you cover it up or anything else. But actually, how do we create a culture? How does any organization create a culture where people really feel as though, yeah, I can step forward and I can hold up my hand and know this isn't about blame, but this is about learning.

speaker-1: think it's leading by example, isn't it? And actually it's the wider team that it is okay and that you kind of use, not use people as an example, but if somebody has done something wrong, it's how you then deal with that. It doesn't automatically mean that they're gonna be out the door because they've done something wrong. And I think somebody watching that, that then creates their safety net for them to feel like, actually it's okay for me to say, I haven't done this right because this happened to John and he, you know, they had a conversation with him and worked out what went wrong and we could move forward. So it's about making sure that when we're casting those shadows, that we're casting positive shadows of how we deal with things.

speaker-2: That's another phrase that we've learned is non-leadership about the shadow you cast as a leader. Absolutely. And that really is what leadership is all about. As you say, we're cast in this shadow and what does that mean and what behaviors are we sort of showcasing here to our teams? But I think it goes to also demonstrate just how important leadership is in terms of generating an organizational culture and how leadership it does come right from the top. And coming back I suppose to as you said at the start, that not all culture is good. I'm thinking around, know, Harrods and some of the atrocities there around sort of sexual harassment prevailed within Harrods for a very long period of time. And we see it in many, many other organisations as well. We use that just as a single example, possibly going to get into trouble here for saying Harrods actually. So it's just a department store. There we go, there we go. It's a premium prestige department store.

speaker-1: Based in London.

speaker-2: But based in London, absolutely, there we go. No names mentioned whatsoever.

speaker-1: It's just about creating the safety of speaking up and speaking out and knowing that you can say, you can positively challenge. I think that's, that's a really great example of a good culture that you can challenge someone in a positive way and say, I don't agree with that. I can understand it. I don't agree with it. Can we have a different conversation? I think it's probably slightly different to that situation because, but What was, why did anybody, why did nobody feel that they could speak up? What was that culture like there that made them feel far too apprehensive or actually scared to be able to open up and say, this is not right here. This is, there's something, something needs to change.

speaker-2: I think those are interesting examples because it takes a lot of courage to be able to stand up in that sort of scenario. And I think it takes courage regardless of, know, especially when we're talking about sexual harassment there. And this could be between two colleagues and it could be a more senior colleague who is experiencing sexual harassment by a more junior colleague. And it takes courage within those scenarios. More often what we sort of read about, what we hear about is where actually there's power involved within this as well, because suddenly then it's career and it's jobs. it's especially if you're working at a certain level within a certain sector, and this is a real sort of passion. actually, if I stand up, if I'm a whistleblower here within this space, do I risk my entire future here? Or even am I going to be believed just that? And I suppose there's this part to say, you know, we can put tools into place or any organizations can put tools into place like a confidential helpline as a single example there to allow people to be able to come forward and to feel safe in doing so. But that still isn't really creating the culture. It's creating a tool. I don't know if that's really creating the culture where people know if I come forward. then I'm going to be listened to, I'm going to be trusted, I'm instantly going to be safe. And how to be able to create a culture there within that sort of realm.

speaker-1: Yeah, I think it's difficult to kind of to showcase that actually. And it's always going to take one person to make that to do that first to then be able to start the process of everyone else seeing that it's in, you know, it always takes one person to stand up and be a whistleblower and say this, what's going on? This has happened to me. that, you see in all kinds of cases, you know, even way back to a lot of these historical sexual abuse cases from from famous presenters, you it took one incredibly brave person to come forward and say, happened to me, to allow that cascade of everybody else to then come forward. And I do wonder if that is their own positivity within themselves and their own safety and their own feeling within themselves that say, do you know what, I know I'm gonna stand up for what's right here and I'm gonna make this a positive challenge rather than, and if it goes wrong. I'm going to have to accept that it's gone wrong and you know, I'm going to have to pick up the pieces myself is an incredibly strong person who does that. but I think if you've got that within your workplace and you've got enough strong people around you, then you know that somebody's going to hold you up. might not be everybody, but somebody will hold you up. And I think when you talk about power, especially within that organization, power is perceived differently by different people and everyone will have their own perception of their own power. There are certain individuals who believe that they are, you know, better than anybody else. And actually my role has got more power than another role. So, you know, power is all about your own perception. It's not about what's cast outside of it.

speaker-2: And maybe a really positive workplace culture then is around every individual leaving ego at the door. Absolutely. And saying, actually, this isn't about power, this isn't about roles. We have different roles, different responsibilities. We're paid differently for those responsibilities, but this isn't in a hierarchical sense here. We've left ego there, and there's almost a humbleness. And I think that actually we really see that in this day and age and when individuals in our organization said to me earlier, yeah, you know, we're modern, we're relevant, we're innovative. And I like to think as well that they're saying that, you know, we are relevant for an organization in 2026 that really champions things like diversity, that takes psychological safety really seriously, because these were topics that just weren't spoken about. I was going to say 20 years ago, but think even five years ago to a degree, it's much more prevalent now than what it's ever been.

speaker-1: think there's a lot more human elements to life now. think, especially in my role as a human resources manager, it's all about strategy of business now. A lot of the human element is being taken away from a human resources kind of role. But actually, you don't have a business strategy without humans at the end of it or right in the middle of it. You can build whatever empire you want, but you have to have human capital in it to be able to make it work. So I think definitely with the ego element of it, we have to remember that we're all human at the end of the day. We all have a feeling and each one of us is important and it's our own reality. It's our own feeling. You can't tell somebody how to feel. You can't say to somebody, that's not how it is because in their mind that's their reality. And I think sometimes it's hard to leave ego at the door. And I think we do it as best as we possibly can, but I do think sometimes that ego follows you in before you've shut the door in the morning. ⁓ But it's also about recognizing that and then how do we positively challenge that to make that better?

speaker-2: Well, ego is a powerful weapon at the same time, actually. I think especially within a sales role, I'll take the workplace out of this and I'll just refer it to the gym. I've got a massive ego at the gym, especially in a spin class. I'm there to go the fastest, to have my resistance highest. And that is my personal ego, saying, yes, no one in this room is going to be fitter and stronger than I am this morning. And that's what That's what gives me that kind of competitive spirit. So, know, ego is a really, really positive thing, but I think as a leader, it goes to show how important it is in terms of organisational culture to be able to sort of park that and have this. always talk about authentic leadership. We do. And I think this is the thing, you know, culture does stem from the top within any organisation, any organisation, because if it's not there at the top, then it's not going to happen anywhere else. And ⁓ I think you have to have that sort of that humbleness to it to be able to create the space for everybody else to be heard, to feel safe and I think that's so so powerful.

speaker-1: think you can have an ego because you need to have it as your driver. So you talk about your ego in the gym, but actually that's what drives you to go as fast on your spin bike, to be the one who finishes first, or I don't do spin as you can tell, so I don't know. But it's your driver, but you use your ego in a positive way to get you to where you want to be. We can talk about a positive company culture, but also... There's only so much as a company you can do. You have to rely on the people that you have got within that business to be able to fulfill that company culture as well. Because if somebody's got a mindset, it's very difficult to change that. If they believe their ego is driving them to a certain way, you can have the best company culture in the world, but you can't always change somebody's own mindset and alter their own ego.

speaker-2: that every single person that an organization brings in has got to have that kind of cultural party in mind, which as I said earlier on is difficult because then you do run a risk of slipping into a will fit category and lose that diversity angle. And there's a business case for diversity and people forget that as well. ⁓ as you say, you've got to get the recruitment right. You've got to be able to have the people in the business who are going to showcase the organization, who are going to live that organization's culture and who are going to showcase what the organization stands for. And I suppose for us, you know, it's very much around professionalism and quality and personal relationships. And that's what we stand for as a business. And if somebody hasn't got that and doesn't showcase that at an interview, then they're not going to be making it with us. So I think probably hiring and if I dare say the words firing around organizational values. is also so pivotal to ensuring that the integrity of our organization's culture remains as well.

speaker-1: think when you hire, you're getting the best version of somebody in front of you at that particular moment. They want to sell themselves to you. And I think it's only really once they're within the company that you sometimes get to see people's true colors. It's how you then process that and how much you allow that to seep into the bloodline of the business. Because if you leave it, it's a bit like a poison. The poison is then going to spread out. Whereas if you recognize it, and you try to stop it, you can save your culture, you can save it without it being poisoned by other people's thoughts who don't have that positive. You probably haven't experienced it in other companies. You know, we talk about this, never, I always say it, I've never worked for a company like this. And that's, you know, it's not always perfect. Every day is not always fun. Some days it's hard, but actually on the whole, Do I enjoy coming into work, even though on those hard days, then yes I do. So I think that is because I've got all these people around me who will support me and hold me up and make me tea and make me laugh and actually it makes those hard days okay, makes them bearable.

speaker-2: when there's a culture of collaboration. as I said earlier on, think, you know, one of the words that came back was a culture of family. And some people say, ⁓ that's very, that's very tree. It's very cliche. ⁓ But I think it is it is very true. And it's very true for us. And at surface level, people might sort of say, ⁓ yeah, this sort of culture of family, that sounds a really nice sort of wholesome place to work. But actually, again, it's kind of all the The business case here as well is it means that when you do have a tough day, when there are challenges out there, that actually you're not alone, you're not shouldering everything, ⁓ because there is this culture of teamwork and collaboration where the rest of the family are sort of rallying around there to actually support. And whether that's just tangible support or whether it's just, I can see it's a bad day. Whatever the case is.

speaker-1: I'm not going to talk to you today.

speaker-2: ⁓ And that's the power and the impact of culture as well. It's not just about, I suppose, creating a nice place to work. It's actually about creating a place which is collaborative and which sets out to achieve the organization's ultimate aims and ultimate goals.

speaker-1: It's interesting you use the word family because, you know, not everybody views family as a positive word either. You know, not everyone's fortunate to come from a wholesome background and have a wholesome family. Family, the word family can be triggering to some people because they've had a poor experience, but coming in and seeing that actually the team is a like a family, but a positive family. can also change their mindset for them and their negative experiences that they have had with their own family. you know it doesn't have to be you know a poor experience for them or you know give them nightmares about going for Christmas dinner around you know their family that they don't enjoy they don't like this is a bit like we we choose in our family by coming here we're not we're not lumbered with them but we've chosen these people as our family and you know and that's how we view them

speaker-2: And I think there are individuals, few people instantly come to mind, who've had personal challenges over the last few sort of years really, and who know, just feel sort of grounded here really and feel like, yes, if it wasn't for my colleagues, if it wasn't for my friends around me, because that's the thing you know. Work really creates friendship groups as much as colleagues as well. And some people are very professional and they leave that at the door. Others will say, no, I'm friends with these individuals outside of work and there's nothing wrong there with that. But that's what's really helped to support individuals who have gone through some sort of slightly more challenging times.

speaker-1: think you see more of your teammates than you do of your own family. So you do rely on those people and you rely on those people to sometimes just talk to you about work and not about the situations or the problems or the issues that you've got going on. So it's a bit like a grounding really. You can come in and you can say I'm having a bad day and someone will say, don't be so ridiculous. Look at this email I've got. And you've moved on and your problem is not so big as what it was when you first walked through the door in the morning.

speaker-2: But I think what we have sustained throughout all of this is just how big the topic of organisational culture is actually from the foundations of trust and from alignment of values, how it hinges around recruitment at the start, the impact around diversity versus will fit, how what you tolerate is what you end up with at the end of the day as well. as you said earlier on. how you deal with challenges, how you approach things when things go wrong, when individuals ⁓ aren't performing to the required level that the organisation expects, or whether there's a misconduct issue there, how is that dealt with, what is that leadership experience, to be able to generate a positive outcome. There's so much, there's so, much, I'm just recapping on probably what's been quite a long conversation here. There's so much that goes into organisational culture. If you had a single takeaway from organisational culture, or one thing just to sum it up, it's really tough.

speaker-1: It's tough. think I would probably revert back to what I said kind of right at the beginning. It's about how you feel coming into work. I think if you can feel safe, you can feel happy. You can feel that you can be yourself when you walk through that door, regardless of how you feel or what you look like or what your capabilities are or what your qualifications are in life. If you can feel safe when you shut that door in the morning, I think. that sums positive company culture up really. It's safe.

speaker-2: And I think that's where we haven't spoken about this by I often talk about an emotional contract or a psychological contract to say that people, people don't do their tasks because of what's written down on a piece of paper shoved in a drawer somewhere. They do it because actually they have this emotional contracts and a psychological connection with their line manager, maybe, or with the organization. And that's why they put heart and soul into it. And I think with that, you can, you can do anything. And that's only possible when. as you said, people can come in, they can be their authentic self, they feel safe both physically and psychologically within that space. And I think it's for the person or the people, know, because not all organizations have a single person at the top of that hierarchy, know, trustees as prime example, school governors, it starts there, you know, culture starts there. And they've got to be responsible for ensuring that, there is that safety. And it stems far beyond the rule book. It stems far beyond sort of policies and safeguarding tools. It is just around how do we allow people to be their authentic selves. Yeah. Yeah. The sun's come out. Since we've been in here, look, the rain has stopped. The clouds have passed. The sun has come out. It's turned out to be a nice day.

speaker-1: is positive.

speaker-2: If I got on my short sleeves I'd be baking in long sleeves.

speaker-1: We've manifested the positive culture and it's now in the sky which has made the sun come out which is a good thing.

speaker-2: Right, we'll end it there. We'll get, we can have a coffee and a proper cat shop now. There we go.

speaker-0: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the TPF Podcast. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a colleague on LinkedIn or let your fundraising friends know about us. We're back here twice a month with a main episode and a mini sode featuring fundraising insights. So be sure to subscribe to our channel so you're notified whenever we have new episodes out. We're streaming on Spotify and Apple Podcasts with video versions available on YouTube. You can also find us on Instagram via at Profundraiseruk for more on all things TPF. We'll see you back here very soon.