speaker-0: can't emphasize that enough. It's not just, ⁓ my gosh, you've spent X amount of money and it's just a dorm room. You've got to kind of think in deeper layers and people's needs are different. People's desires are different.

speaker-1: And again, too, it's not you spent X amount on a dorm room, especially when strategically we have pieces and source things that are going to go far beyond that dorm room.

speaker-0: Welcome to Return on Design, the podcast where beauty meets strategy and interiors become assets that perform. I'm your host, Rachel Niederhofer, designer, investor, and builder of high-impact spaces that deliver real results. Alongside my husband, I run both a design firm and a real estate investment company, where I live at the intersection of creativity and ROI every day. Each week, I'll be unpacking what most people overlook. How strategic design decisions can grow your investment, elevate your lifestyle, and unlock the full potential of your property. You'll get real tools, proven strategies, and unfiltered conversations with industry experts who are doing it right. So if you're ready to invest with purpose and leverage design as a powerful tool, this podcast is for you. Designer dorm rooms are everywhere right now, and people have a lot to say about it.

speaker-1: Yeah, they're asking questions like why would you hire a designer? Is this excess

speaker-0: And having just done a dorm design and install ourselves, I definitely have some thoughts on the subject. And so that's what we're gonna be talking about today. Not the notion that everyone needs to have a designer for their dorm because they don't. No. But rather why this trend proves something that we've been talking about all along. And that is that design has value far beyond just making something beautiful. So let's dive right in. I'm excited to dissect this subject. So let me ask you, Justin.

speaker-1: I'm sure you are.

speaker-0: Why is this so controversial?

speaker-1: Well, I think in many ways, you know, the college dorm room was meant to be something temporary. It was just a just a space. It it never was given that much thought.

speaker-0: Yeah. And I think, you know, in this new age of social media, there's sort of this expectation where people can kind of show behind the scenes of what they're doing, their process of moving in. And ⁓ just getting a lot of attention. But I wanna, you know, defend designers specifically around this because when when you're moving into a dorm, you know, as as a freshman, especially, this is the first time that you're really becoming independent or the next phase of becoming independent where you're not living at home, you don't have, you know, the room, the space that you did before. And you really have to figure out basically how to live in a studio apartment.

speaker-1: Yeah, if if you're lucky, I mean some of ⁓ are shared studio apartments.

speaker-0: Yeah, and and you're talking maybe a hundred, hundred and fifty square feet and people that can be overwhelming because people don't know number one, how they're even gonna function in there, where they're gonna put all of their stuff. And designers are actually really good at space planning and being strategic around how to maximize the space and make it as efficient as possible.

speaker-1: So what you're saying is like a dorm room is actually just a complex problem that you're having to solve from a design standpoint. So what are you what are you solving?

speaker-0: In that. Yeah. And I like that you brought up the problem because remember, we always want to establish a goal because we are solving a problem. Like I said, we just did a dorm design and installer. I designed it, you know, we executed the install together. And so we're fresh off the press of what this is really like and what it's really about. And it it's still a very personal, unique process when you're designing it. Because yes, a dorm has constraints, but to your point, some people share a room. Some people have their own room. And that information is important when you start addressing, like, okay, what are what are we trying to achieve? Which, okay, obviously you're gonna be living in here. But do you have, are you in an apartment dorm? Is there a kitchen? Is there some shared space that allows you to cook? Questions like this help you determine what what all do we need this room to do from a functionality standpoint?

speaker-1: And I think that can touch back too of, you know, kind of what you were talking about earlier, of like traditionally that dorm room was just where you went and you might have done some studying, you slept, but now the way colleges are, it's it's shifted. I mean, students are actually taking online courses from their dorm rooms, plus in class. More than that room now that room that we traditionally just looked at from a

speaker-0: Yeah, good point.

speaker-1: It's almost just your bedroom to go to sleep, maybe do some studying to it's now a functional office. It's your kitchen, it's your bathroom, it's your sleep space. It's it's got so many more things to do now. Mm-hmm. I think it's actually introduced more issues and more reason for that strategic design that is is necessary.

speaker-0: This specific dorm we designed, I designed, it's an apartment dorm. So they did have a little kitchenette, but one of the goals for the client was still to have her own space. So we included the mini fridge, we included the, you know, functional kitchenette, if you will, within. And we still wanted it to have the beautiful aesthetic, but establishing though those goals up front, knowing, okay. Yes, she's got online classes. So we have a little bit of a hybrid model to be able to sit down and have a makeup vanity space, to be able to have a lounge section. And you're thinking, well, how in the world are you gonna get all of these things into one room? Yeah. And that is where, you know, this complex design problem narrative really gets introduced because It is. It can be complex and it can also be very overwhelming for somebody like a mom, especially this is your first time, you're sending your kid to college, you know, maybe you didn't go to college or maybe you didn't have to live in the dorm. And so just the unknown. I mean, there's a lot of factors of why you would want to bring an expert in to help you assess and evaluate and make sure that, you know, you're positioning your kid with all all the needs that they have. Or that they're going to need. I can't emphasize this enough, but logistical coordination of what designers really do. Yeah. Let's just circle back to this whole controversy narrative of, you know, people throwing out numbers like, ⁓ you're spent 20,000 on a dorm. Your dorm design. That becomes the headline of topic. But what people don't understand is it's not, you know, our return on design concept is not just about financial return. There's an emotional and experiential return. They in it how you're actually investing in design. And what a designer really does is add a tremendous amount of value logistically as well. So you're talking about all the preparation that goes into identifying the goal and really establishing the needs, helping kind of cut through the overwhelm of like, yes, we we're gonna make it pretty, but what do we actually need? to make sure we have in this room all the product sourcing once you get the design established.

speaker-1: Yeah, and I think that's really important there in like sourcing the right products because we're like we've said already, your space is very, very limited. So having the right pieces to fit becomes even more important. Because especially when you've got to get a lot of things in there and you're trying to create that storage or that that space to study or even have a lounge. The wrong chair, too big. Correct me if I'm wrong here. Too big. It's not gonna fit. It's not gonna it's gonna cramp the rest of it and throw everything all out. Yeah. Make it even more make it actually exacerbate a problem. Mm-hmm.

speaker-0: Product sourcing is a huge time that designers put into every project. It doesn't matter how big or small it is. ⁓ there's a lot of coordination also with procuring product, the logistics of receiving product, the things that happen behind the scenes that people don't always see, which is intended, right? You're paying me to do all of that. So you don't have to deal with that. But there also comes a point when you have, you know, damage things that arrive or things that don't go according to plan. And then the process follow up of lining all the things out and making it run smoothly, getting things replaced if they need to be. And that that's part of the value. So you that affects the experience of what you're investing in because we want the student to be comfortable and that's important for their family. That their needs are met and that they love their space. But there's also a very real emotion that comes along with, you know, people moving their kid into a dorm and saying goodbye when they've lived with them their whole life. And if we can come in and make that process smoother, less stressful, and just seamless, that's affecting the emotional experience that they're having around it. And that's worth it for people.

speaker-1: And that well, it's not just affecting, you know, the emotional experience for the parent, but it's the emotional experience for the student going into, you know, this huge life transition that they're now going into. Again, you're moving out of mom and dad's house, you're becoming more independent, you're stepping out to your place and becoming your per you know, your own person, discovering who you are inside, you know, and and growing and learning. Yeah. You know, and having a comfortable Space to do that makes that transition easier.

speaker-0: Yeah. And I I think it's all relative when people start throwing out numbers to each individual. I will say from a design perspective, strategically, in terms of how we approach this project and allocated the resources, is there was about five really good designer pieces that we purchased for the room. And those designer pieces are things that will have longevity. You know, that can be moved into an apartment when you move out of your dorm and can also be investment pieces for your starting outside of the dorm as well. And it's not just about buying the cheapest furniture you can find. We want it to be functional. ⁓ so in this dorm design, I added in a desk for a vanity and that had a hutch on top of it. And then we put a desk hutch on top of the original desk. And we added in the nightstand was actually a very multifunctional piece of great furniture that will last for years and years and years and can be used in a a multitude of ways. The way it's being used right now in the dorm is it becomes sort of a built-in kitchenette where the refrigerator can go in there, the coffee maker, any type of food storage or any storage that you want. But it also is the nightstand. So it becomes a multi-purpose. And when you move into an apartment, it could be used as a credenza. It could be used in so many different ways, just depending on what your needs are. So I I bring that up to preface that you can invest in some really good foundational pieces that can be used in the dorm today and also be used throughout their entire college experience. So when you start taking the numbers and you're spreading it over a different period of time, instead of thinking, ⁓ you only live in the dorm for a semester or two semesters, now you're thinking, Well, this piece we're investing in today, but it's gonna be used your whole college career. So this nice rug we're putting on the floor is gonna be able to go into your apartment too. Yeah.

speaker-1: It's there and there therein lies part of your financial return and that it's not just a temporary spend that's now wasteful, but it has it has that longevity just like you would treat your house or your investment property. You know, you you're buying pieces that will grow and extend in life with them and be able to move with them.

speaker-0: And that is the value of the designer sourcing product because we are thinking in that realm. You know, I'm not just buying everything for temporary storage to fit under your bed. We're thinking of how can this fit in the confines of the dorm today, support what you need today, and build upon what you're going to need in the next two to three years. And the same is true in this project for. The lighting, you know, we did some obviously like a bedside lamp and some task lighting around the desk. And those are things that are going to last. ⁓ they're beautiful. And it's the few designer pieces that really elevate the entire space and give it that very high-end feel and aesthetic look that I think people kind of get hung up on, thinking like the whole room, everything is. over the top and that that's not true. We we're just really good at making it look really beautiful because we know what we're doing. Yeah.

speaker-1: Well, when I think I think when everything's put together thoughtfully and strategically like that, the the natural beauty of it all comes together more seamlessly. So everything looks much higher, much grand you know, more grandeur to it. And and so but that's the part that people see.

speaker-0: You know. You know, good design is not just about adding more stuff, like I've talked about so many times, it's identifying the needs. So let's just go a little further into the life of a college student moving into a dorm. The things we're evaluating and thinking about collectively, by the way. ⁓ this is with the client and the parents and everyone who's participating. You know, things they're thinking about are what's the air, air quality in here? You know, we added an air purifier. What is the temperature? So a fan was added. What's the functional comfort of, you know, having a small bed and and maybe somewhere to put stuff? So we did a wall shelf. And yes, we put a headboard up. ⁓ that's a that's a new trend. Like when we were in college, nobody really had headboards, but we did have big pillows and we would sit on the bed and, you know, prop yourself up against the wall. ⁓ so little things like that do make it feel more comfortable, more cozy, more complete. Of course, the storage needs had to be met. Like I said, the built-in kitchen, this specific one was sort of a hybrid. They're in-person and online classes on campus at the university. So now you're spending a a good amount of focus time in your room. I mean I guess you could do your online class in the library or something like that. And I'm sure you have the flexibility. But the point is creating an environment where you have the options to support you succeeding as a student.

speaker-1: And and the comfort to be able to do that. You know, you nobody wants to be sitting there cramped up in a spot trying to study and learn. It's not conducive to that. You know, you need a place that you can actually sit down, put your computer out, your paper, whatever, and and focus.

speaker-0: Yeah. And honestly, I I really enjoyed doing the dorm. It was a challenge in a different way because it was so constrained that every decision mattered. Yeah. Down to a T. And everything has to fit precisely. So we've got to be really accurate about our measurements, our specs, like everything comes down to the wire.

speaker-1: Mm-hmm. I was gonna say there's parts of that that it's like you you almost had to look at things from an engineered standpoint of every measurement, every number mattered. Mm-hmm. And when it came down to it, it's like, is this gonna fit right? And you know, I would say doing it, yes, there was a point in there that it's like, this could be tight. But then as soon as as soon as you put that piece exactly where you had planned it, how you had planned it, everything just started to fall into place. And it's like, ⁓ you actually this is This is cool. Like I I I enjoyed doing it too and I enjoyed watching it all come together.

speaker-0: Yeah, it was fun. It was it's a fun project. It's fun to support someone in like such a impactful time in their life. Yeah. You know, that's when the one of the beautiful things about design is it is a very personal business. That is a goal through the process of designing. Is I I want my design to suit the client and what they want and what their vision is. It's not just about my vision, but it's about leveraging my skills to actually make it a reality for them. And that is value add. That's valuable for people on different levels, of course. But you know, this whole question of like why would you hire an interior designer? That's why. That's part of why people do it. It's to help them actually achieve and attain something that ⁓ maybe they don't have the experience to do or maybe they don't have

speaker-1: With confidence in some aspects.

speaker-0: Yeah. Or the time either. Mm-hmm. I mean, the the pressure of install for for those who know, I mean, you're you're on a tight schedule. You have an appointment of when you can arrive and how much time you have to unload, you know, the big bins they give you. And there's a timeline and that adds an another layer of pressure for people to think, ⁓ my gosh, how are we gonna get it all done when you bring in a team of experts who do installs for a living? It's part of

speaker-1: That's a big constraint.

speaker-0: The business operation, it's like we got it. We what we do.

speaker-1: There's a plan. You know, there there was already a strategic plan laid out on how this is gonna go in, when, what, where. Yeah. And and and when you have that, it things run smoothly.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. And so that's again part of what you're investing in, part of what you're paying for. I can't emphasize that enough. It's not just, ⁓ my gosh, you've spent X amount of money and it's just a dorm room. You've got to kind of think in deeper layers and people's needs are different. People's desires are different.

speaker-1: And again too, it's not you spent X amount on a dorm room, especially when strategically we have pieces and source things that are going to go far beyond that dorm room.

speaker-0: Yes. And you know, I'm glad you brought that up because we need to just kind of hover on that a little bit. Because a lot of the controversy around this subject is the financial aspect. Yeah. Like why would you spend that much? Or how can you justify that cost? And when you're thinking about it long term, we're not gonna buy the most expensive designer bedding for your twin size bed. Because when you move into your apartment. You're probably not gonna want to be on a twin bed. So that's not gonna be where our fund allocation is gonna go. We're gonna invest in those foundational pieces, like I mentioned. For us, it was the rug, the multifunctional furniture that could be used in a multitude of ways in the future and is currently being used, the nightstand, et cetera, the lighting. Those are really the big ones. But the point is it's an allocation of funds. You're distributing the funds in a different way. It's not all just like. Okay, in five, six months, we're not gonna need any of this stuff anymore. So just to kind of circle back on the investment piece, you know, thinking about it beyond just the one semester or two semesters in the dorm and being intentional, whether you're hiring a designer or not, about some really good foundational pieces that can continue into the financial side of your investment. But in addition to that, it this is really about creating an experience too. Yeah. And creating a space that they can live in, grow, and be secure in individually, but also collectively. Like your parents are are wanting that too. It's an experience for them to know, okay, I'm dropping my child off here. And this is up to the expectation of of what I want for my child. Yeah. So it's a it's an experience there emotionally as well to know this is worth spending X amount for this project because this matters to me. And I bring up experience because people underestimate that when it comes to interior design. People often think Interior design is just about making something pretty. But like we've talked about, there's so much more value to good design than purely just aesthetics. And a huge part of that is how you experience it, the process of design. And then after I leave, how you're experiencing your space.

speaker-1: Yeah, and we gotta remember that because as investors ourselves, like we do this with other properties. We look at the Airbnb market, other vacation rentals, or just investment properties on and on. It's about the experience. Even in your own home, you design for an experience, what you want in that space.

speaker-0: Yeah. And that's that functional part too. That I mean, you can't really put a price on that. Yeah. Because if if if you want to go on vacation and spend twenty thousand dollars for a week, are you getting a return? I mean, it's all subjected to how you experienced it. Yeah. And the memories you created and how it impacted your life. And it you know, now translate that into design. of of any capacity. It how is it producing a return for you on that level?

speaker-1: Yeah. And does it mean you have to spend twenty thousand dollars on a dorm? No. It's I I don't think it's necessarily about the budget number, but it's about the intentionality in the budget. And it's the same it's the same thing you do when you're designing homes or an apartment or any any other space that you go in and you design for a client. Yeah. You give you're giving it that same level of care and attention to detail, does no matter what the budget.

speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and sharing the journey ⁓ via social media has just exploded on the whole concept of this is real. I mean, you have to think of ⁓ sororities and fraternities. These, you know, little mini mansions that these people live in have been designed with intention for years. And now people are just trickling that over into their own personal dorm, sharing their experience, being inspired by others, getting ideas. And it's really fun. It was fun to be a part of it. The energy of being on campus on moving day, you know, it's just there's youth and life and possibility. And I'm I'm really glad we did it. And I want people, I want to emphasize that because all these people who want to criticize the process need to understand like people are investing in their future. And it's education, yes, absolutely. But you know, this is a mark. in their life forever. Yeah. I mean, who hasn't been to college, lived on campus, and had memories created that, you know, you still carry with you today? I mean, it's a pretty impactful time in someone's life. So why not pour into that in an in a intentional way? Because going through this dorm dorm design, it's not like I went through a different process as a designer. I took her through the same process strategically that I do for any design client or design initiative at all. It's it's the same thing, just one room.

speaker-1: You say it's the same process. So therein lies that return on design connection. It's you know, you're still going through the same processes. Yeah. Identifying what the problem is or what the issue is. What what are you trying to solve? What are we trying to cure and how are we gonna do it? What's the design for it? And then sourcing, correct?

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I still go through the blueprint of how I assess the property, establish the goals, and then every decision is solving that goal. So again, we evaluated a multitude of things that were going to provide comfort. ⁓ like I said, you know, air quality and airflow and all the things that we could influence. To make the environment better, we did. And in addition, it was very, very heavy driven on function, right? Because again, the space is so limited. So every decision is how can we maximize this square footage? We're gonna elevate this bed as high as we can. We're gonna maximize all of this square footage over here for storage. You know, we're going to provide the comfortable aspects of the day to days like getting ready. Obviously, a a Boy's storm isn't gonna need a makeup vanity, but that's kind of a big deal for a girl. Yeah. So making those intentional decisions.

speaker-1: Yeah, and each each dorm room is different because you've got also the aspects of can you move this furniture? Is it stationary? What? And that affects each decision too and translates into how it how you process through it.

speaker-0: Yeah. And I think it's worth noting for people, like let's say you're like, okay, great, I get it. But I I as a parent want to do this. Like I'm good at, you know, styling too and I want to design my own kids' door. Great, go for it. Yeah. So some some tips and tricks of things I did to get the measurements and a visual, all of that was on the university website. So you can typically go to whatever college they're at. And they usually will provide the information. So I was able to get the the layout and the general specs of the room and down to a T if I knew which room was going to be hers. And ⁓ all of those things will help you plan accordingly. And also don't be afraid to call. Like if you're going through the process and you are let's say you want to do it for next semester or whenever you listen to this podcast, you know, call the school. And ask the person at the desk, what's the measurements? How tall are the ceilings? Where's the position of the window? Anything to help you start being able to understand really what you're dealing with is gonna give you a head start on yeah, knowing what to buy. But I think that's part of the the challenge for people. Especially like, you know, yeah, you you know, okay, you're gonna have a twin bed, a desk and a dresser. Okay, great.

speaker-1: the space that you're planning.

speaker-0: Well, what else do we need to buy? And not really understanding how I'm going to lay the room out because I don't know what my options are. All of that will help you be very strategic about what you're buying and not buying after you get into the room, but like you're prepared. I think that's another thing that this whole process takes people by surprise is, you know, we come in with an entire load and we're prepared. We know exactly where everything's gonna go. Everything has already been determined, like we're just executing. And I don't think that's the story for everybody because they get there, they maybe brought a few things, and then now they're going out and they're like, okay, I need to buy, you know, A, B, and C.

speaker-1: No, that was kind of my experience a bit.

speaker-0: Yeah. Again, which is why having the designer there is valuable. But it's also just valuable to prepare yourself ahead of time. So you have a a good idea. You don't have to make all these extra trips. Like you've already laid it out, coordinated all the logistics. That's gonna take the stress off as well.

speaker-1: kind of following on that. Does everybody need a designer? No. No. But going through the steps in the process as a designer or with a designer, you know, whichever way you decide to go, like the process should be the same. And it the ultimate goal in is that good design creates the function and the flow that allows for this transition and allows for this space to function and be what you want it to be and make it comfortable and make it inviting and make it make the experience here. And bring your investment along farther.

speaker-0: Yeah. And you know, even if you're a college kid listening and you're like, I really wish my dorm looked like that. ⁓ you know, you can be inspired by some of these feeds that you might see during install week, but like you actually can accomplish it. There's so many big box brands too that have built out entire subsets of stuff just for dorms. I mean It's not just the, you know, independent interior designers. Like you have big box retailers serving the the dorm category. And there's a lot of great stuff on there that you can get as well to get the designer look, be intentional. I would just say don't forsake function for beauty. You you can't afford to when you're dealing with such tight

speaker-1: With that function comes the beauty. But yeah, I mean, if this is if this has inspired you on how to do it or how to design your next space, because let's face it, the dorm room, it is a tiny house.

speaker-0: Yeah, yes. Yeah. Right. I thought that was trending too. I don't know why people are

speaker-1: was at one point, but you know, if this has inspired you to move on and move forward in your next project, great. We'd love to hear about it and you know, love for you to share. So

speaker-0: And just to be very clear, the verdict, is it worth it? My opinion, yes, a hundred percent it's worth it to invest in, you know, hiring a designer to help with your dorm. So make sure you're following us at Real Return on Design. That's where you can see the install, the dorm that we're referencing, what it looked like before, after, and a little tidbits of kind of the in between. You can also connect with us on YouTube. We have our YouTube channel, which has lots of great content, including our entire podcast recording. And check us out on our website, audaciousdesigns.design. Thanks for joining us today.

speaker-1: And we will see you guys next time.