speaker-0: Because now we're not just competing against people, right? Yeah. For market share. We're competing against technology. And the best way to use that to your advantage is to understand your competitor, understand the technology, understand AI, understand how you can leverage it for your own growth and your own benefit and differentiate yourself. Welcome to Return on Design, the podcast where beauty meets strategy and interiors become assets that perform. I'm your host, Rachel Niederhofer, designer, investor, and builder of high-impact spaces that deliver real results. Alongside my husband, I run both a design firm and a real estate investment company, where I live at the intersection of creativity and ROI every day. Each week, I'll be unpacking what most people overlook, how strategic design decisions can grow your investment, elevate your lifestyle, and unlock the full potential of your property. You'll get real tools, proven strategies, and unfiltered conversations with industry experts who are doing it right. So if you're ready to invest with purpose and leverage design is a powerful tool, this podcast is for you. In a world saturated with artificial intelligence, AI isn't coming to interior design. It is already here. And statistics show that about 40% of firms are already using it, and 80% are using it just for. Early visual renders. But what's interesting is that homeowners are actually using it as well. Says about 80%, which is a good number. So if AI can actually generate an image, then the question becomes is a professional really necessary? And this is the conversation that we need to have because yes, AI can generate an image, but an image isn't necessarily a design. And it definitely isn't necessarily an executable design.

speaker-1: That's true.

speaker-0: So today I want talk about AI around the profession, what AI actually changes, what it doesn't change, and where the designer actually creates a real value for the return on design. So let's just kick this off with you know, AI is a benefit. Yeah. And it does do some things very well. What do you think it does well?

speaker-1: Yeah, I know, that's a great tool. I mean, I think AI can be used to generate some visuals very quickly. It's very good at that. ⁓ things that used to take a lot of time. It can speed some of the processes up. Mm-hmm.

speaker-0: Definitely. ⁓ I can also, you know, to to the speed narrative, like you can pivot in aesthetics really quickly. So if you wanted to show, you know, one style that lends maybe a little more modern and one that has a little more traditional, like you can make real fast tweaks to renders to give people good conceptual.

speaker-1: Well that going back to the entire process of rebuilding the entire room.

speaker-0: Huge time saver.

speaker-1: Yeah, I mean so it's it's great what it's great for some efficiencies and efficiency matters.

speaker-0: Yeah, it's really good at organizing information, ⁓ helping you maintain structure, especially for ⁓ creative minds. You know, sometimes we are not the most organized in our our ideas because we're always creative and like thinking of the next thing. So it can help kind of bring some foundation to that. I know for me, AI is really good at language presentation, because I can be a very direct person, especially. via email or text, you know, I'm just I'm kind of a straight shooter. And so AI can help me add a little more personal touch to my presentation and language sometimes.

speaker-1: Yeah. I mean, it it helps with it can help in a lot of the different presentation modes, but I you know, it's great for the designer trying to make lots of different changes, quick, you know, getting rid of a lot of repetitive work and helping you with you know, in those designs and and getting ready to put all that presentation together and help gather all the thoughts. It's really good at putting a lot of things together really quick. But to your point earlier, it's not the greatest always for, you know. the overall conceptual of it's a great design, but is is it executable?

speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so with all of the opportunity and that AI does bring to the table, like as professionals, it's not a scary thing. We shouldn't run from it. We shouldn't be threatened by it. Right. We got to figure out how to use this tool as an asset to optimize our own practices and all of the great benefits that do come along with it.

speaker-1: Okay, so let's let's go into that a little bit with you know, we've there's a lot of great benefits in doing things with through AI, but where does it fall short?

speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, like I said, AI is really good at creating visuals, quickly giving you an idea, not just for yourself. Like, you know, homeowners are using it. So if if they have an idea and they maybe are having trouble seeing it, that's huge value add in the space of design specifically. And then for designers, like to be able to articulate what you see quickly and effectively is. significant because it builds trust and it actually can help facilitate the acquiring of a project, if you will, which is really valuable. However, AI is not going to present real structure to a plan without information being added. So like it could scan a room as an example and get rough dimensions of the room. But in terms of of scale, proportion, actual workflow in the space, those are things that AI needs the human input to add to the ability to actually accomplish the design beyond now just that immediate visual. For example, if I took a picture of a room and I said, I want to see this as a kitchen in a, you know, a modern style with white oak cabinets and herringbone backsplash, let's say it it should be able to produce that relatively good, but it may not capture scale. Independently. So if it if I don't tell it, I want the cabinets all the way to the ceiling. I want the range to be 60 inches wide. And if I'm not giving it these specific dimensions, it's just like a gamble. It's like playing a slot machine. It's not necessarily going to independently derive really specific design details that are proportionate. If I don't tell it that information. So if I as a designer know. Okay, there's six people living in this house. We need to have oversized hallways as an example. Or the primary needs to have eight foot doors. The people here are really tall. Like those really specific details. AI can't do that without human interpretation. And and it can't do that without really knowing more. Well, I guess I said that, knowing more information.

speaker-1: But the more you put into it, the more it generates for you. But I think and part of that and what I've watched from you with some of the design and and the AI is like it can't lay out all the design that you see in your head. Like, ⁓ we're gonna do a custom kitchen. Right. It it can give some of the details. It can make a very nice range hood. But ⁓ wait, what about the ⁓ hidden this hidden spice rack that you're putting in to the sides of the Of the range, yeah, of the stove or you know, whichever were if you're gonna do it up higher, you're gonna do it down low. It can't do that until you start really putting into those dimensions. And even then it still doesn't have all quite all the detailings.

speaker-0: Very true. There is a level of falling short in multiple realms, but obviously we're talking about this profession specifically. So there is that human aspect that's necessary to really develop a a design that's beyond just a concept, beyond just the visual. And that's something to keep in mind for sure. It's also not going to capture, you know, logistical aspects that come around with design. ⁓ how to actually procure material, everything to actually execute, I guess, which I'm getting ahead of myself a little bit there. But I think the other aspect of AI in design specifically is it can make things seem like anything's possible.

speaker-1: Ooh. Yeah, there's danger in that.

speaker-0: Yeah. And so if I'm isolated looking at, you know, one room. Let's say, for example, I want an open kitchen concept and there's currently some type of a barrier. And I put it into AI and I generate, you know, what the view could be and it's ⁓ beautiful and I fall in love with it. Okay. But now there's a very real execution aspect. And is that attainable? from a construction standpoint. And AI's not gonna be able to know that without again having very specific information and also the human aspect. So

speaker-1: Yeah, like what do mean there? What what are you looking for as far as the the construction aspect and where

speaker-0: Yeah. I mean, is it structurally capable of doing that? You know, if you start removing walls, you're you're compromising potentially, right? You're compromising the integrity of the structure that's problematic. Even in the instance where maybe you heard you're dealing with code, building codes, like AI should have the capability to search the web and find the relevant code. Like, is this gonna be up to code for something? But Up to code and actually executing that is two different things. So AI is not to be able to tell you, is the current electrical up to code? If I start taking this stuff down, like is there copper wiring? Am I going to have to redo all of this? ⁓ and it might give you something very elaborate that is a lot more complex in execution, if possible at all.

speaker-1: Well, I think you mentioned something earlier too, where you said, you know, the AI really can't give you the budgets and it makes everything seem possible. And okay, to this point of okay, we wanna I want this open concept. It can show me what the room could look like without without that wall, but okay, is it load bearing? Where does that fall into my budget now? AI's not telling me what what that's gonna it I don't even know that it could come close really to Calculating that because it needs a whole lot more information that you would have to input. Yeah. And materials and sourcing and, you know, right. Human aspects.

speaker-0: Yes, which labor's a huge part of your budget allocation, which again, unless I'm telling it what labor is gonna cost for something, yeah, it's not gonna be able to give a very accurate. And it also fluctuates by region too. So you've gotta dial in even more specific to get accurate numbers to your point around budget. What's that really gonna cost? Yeah.

speaker-1: Yeah, 'cause is this is this change that we just made in the design look, is it adding ten thousand to my budget or is it adding, you know, a hundred and fifty thousand? Mm-hmm. You know?

speaker-0: And in terms of AI falling short, like I mentioned the human aspect already. But just to go a layer deeper, let's go back to that kitchen example. If I'm designing a kitchen for someone, I'm thinking of how they're actually gonna live and move in the space. So s proportion is important, but also like drawer placement, door placement. ⁓ you already mentioned the spice rack, but really customizing like how are we going to utilize this? How, what does this end client want to do? Do they cook a lot? Do they not? ⁓ are there children? Like how many people? There's all of these human components that go into building out ⁓ a custom design that AI is not going to be able to capture. It could do, you know, again, with given information, it can maybe give you a baseline to start, but it is going to fall short in fully solidifying. an executable design because it it just doesn't have the capability that an actual human does. Creating false expectations for people ⁓ is just something to be aware of. And especially if you're kind of playing with AI independently before you hire a professional, just be open minded that, you know, there might be other factors that AI isn't capturing on whether or not you're gonna be able to achieve that look or design, I guess. Which brings me to do you think that AI is is negatively devaluing the profession?

speaker-1: I was just thinking about that. I don't think that it really does. I think it actually shows where you know if a good designer is a tool that you can use. Because like you said, there's there's the human aspects that the AI is not capturing that a good designer will, you know, and sees these these small details that frankly most of us don't think about. I know in a lot of designs I haven't thought about when you've said, ⁓ let's look, you know, you brought it up and Yeah, the door pool, the the way that this drawer sh ⁓ this door swings, you know, where this drawer goes. So I think it should be a good tool. It should it doesn't devalue enough. If as a designer, maybe it's just more picking out a couple of things ⁓ to make it pretty. I think then yes, that could probably be a little bit more risky.

speaker-0: Yeah. I mean, AI is not going to be able to understand construction execution the way a person with experience at construction would. Again, the human aspect, space planning. You brought up, you know, picking out stuff, but that's sourcing. Yeah. Because there is a level of relationship for trade where, you know, you have access to stuff that you're only going to have access through hiring a professional. They w they don't sell direct to consumer and there's a lot

speaker-1: Industry professional relationships.

speaker-0: Exactly. The AI is not going to be able to overcome. At least I don't see that happening. So that's another value add of

speaker-1: And with your designer, there's a level of access to product, to materials that the average person, you're not gonna go down and get at the local hardware store. Right. ⁓ and that that access matters. Yeah.

speaker-0: Yes. And even with trade professionals, like let's let's zoom the lens out for a second. Like if I'm building a custom pool, my pool builder is going to have access to product that is specific to executing that pool design that again, you're not gonna go down to your local hardware store and be able to acquire. Yeah. So there is even the the exclusive trade. for that specific lane, builders, it can be similar, you know, from in terms of material and stuff like that. But definitely designers, I mean, especially when you go to finish products and customization, that's right up our alley. And there is a different level of access. And that's part of what you're paying for. Yeah.

speaker-1: I mean you're you're overseeing all of the execution, not just not just the design and the layout, but how is it how does it go in? How is it installed? What is what are the materials, the total finishes, the over overarching experience of it all.

speaker-0: And execution is really where that value lies. So for example, let's say you go through the process, primarily using AI, and you give it the room dimensions. It has the ability to give you somewhat of a design plan that is based on scale to a degree. Like let's just say living room. So it's kind of open and you know where the windows are, you know the size of the rug, you know, the size of the room. But what AI is not going to be able to accomplish is let's say you move move forward on that and the sofa doesn't fit or the product shows up damaged or doesn't show up at all.

speaker-1: That's happened before.

speaker-0: Or maybe this sofa fits, but now you don't have any walkway. There's no defined traffic flow. And so these are just a few examples to the execution of where things can fall short and AI is not going to be able to produce that. That's just on the design side, not to mention from a construction execution aspect.

speaker-1: Yeah, that creative concept, ⁓ you know, I think is where people think that that's what designer's all about is just the the creative layout and play. But it's so much more. I mean, that's in some ways that's the easy part. Yeah. It's the managing all the pieces together because as I've seen with you, you know, that that table or that couch being two inches bigger here or there changes so much in the way that the space flows and performs. And that's something that The designer knows that I don't think the AI is capturing and doesn't relay in to just the average homeowner who's looking to do it and use the AI put it in to place. You know.

speaker-0: And that makes me think of ⁓ the dorm project we just did. Because it was such a everything was laid out specifically for a s exact location and the scale was for that specific location. So if you just put all the stuff in there and it wasn't put in place yet, you're like, ⁓ my gosh, nothing's gonna

speaker-1: This is how it's just gonna work. This is gonna be a disaster.

speaker-0: And once it gets put into the intended execution to create the traffic flow and the the actual function that's been defined, well, now everything fits exactly as planned. Yeah. And that is something that yes, AI is not gonna going to capture ⁓ without being very specifically told. Yeah. And even then it's not gonna give you that defined execution of a how, the how to, which is again the value and the execution, making sure everything. comes in seamlessly, gets executed seamlessly. Yeah. And

speaker-1: Which I mean it it sounds like a lot, but you know, the idea is not to just invest in it, but you know, that your your total return comes from the actual execution. Execution determines a lot of your return, not just the pieces you picked. It's not not how much money you actually put into it all the time that creates what you're getting back out of it. It's how it's done. Right. Is it done correctly?

speaker-0: I want to just kind of circle in on our return on design philosophy here because AI is a great tool that we use and continue to grow in in efficiency on how we use it in order to assist us in the process. But it it doesn't change the framework of of how we make decisions to obtain the return on design. You know, it's it's still about defining what the actual problem is. or goal, establishing a real goal before we start designing anything. AI can't capture that apart from us.

speaker-1: No. And and you know, our goal has never been to spend more. It's asked ask better questions so that we're more intentional with what we move forward with.

speaker-0: Yes, which determines how we allocate the resources, what decisions we make, who is this space going to serve? Whether we're, you know, doing a a investor property, we're still defining like who are we designing this for? What's the goal of the property? What's the goal of the space? Who's it gonna be serving?

speaker-1: What is this? What is the problem that we're solving? ⁓ you know, what should we change? What should we keep the same? Mm-hmm. You know, we go through the same thing. I think AI becomes a part of the process, but it doesn't become the strategy. Right. It doesn't become the the determining factors. Right. You know.

speaker-0: Yeah, because it's not our pro our process is still repeatable, proven, and effective, but it's not a one size fits all in terms of not every goal is the same. No. Not every property serves the same audience. And so therefore, not every design is just rinse and repeat. The process is still foundational, but you have to have those real core foundations to be able to design effectively and then be able to execute effectively. AI is just supporting us through that process. It won't replace it. So what it what does this mean for designers at large specifically? ⁓ I would say, you know, embrace it. Don't steer away from it. ⁓ because if you if you do, you're going to hinder yourself and your ability to not keep up with technology. I mean, it's part of the world we're living in. Everything is moving in that direction.

speaker-1: Technology is only getting more advanced and and faster learning, but yeah, you know, it still requires your input.

speaker-0: And even in the educational setting, you know, new designers, they're this is being integrated in what they're learning. So it's a tool that can be really valuable. It can also take away, or I shouldn't say take away, but assist really effectively in the administrative part, which most designers don't like to do. They like to stay in creative land and just, you know, dream up visions and do design work, but there's a very real business side. to things that if you can offload that and delegate that through AI, that's a win.

speaker-1: Yeah, I mean I would say let it let it assist you where it's good at and what it what it does, helping you create your visualizations, ⁓ speed up those repeatable processes that are time that get time consuming. And there's a lot of it. But, you know, with that, by allowing the tool to help you in those areas, it reduces certain it reduces your workload in areas and allows you to take that time that you're saving and now focus it into the other the other parts that it can't do. Like Some of the exact sourcing materials. Yeah. ⁓ the human relationship, working with people, construction knowledge.

speaker-0: Strategy. And the more you learn and invest in using AI, the more you're gonna grow in, okay, this is something I do that AI can't. And that can become how you position yourself in the market too. And it build your confidence with your clientele of, you know, this is this is what I offer. This is what I'm good at. So it can actually help refine you as a designer in your own practice.

speaker-1: Processes.

speaker-0: Yeah. And I would say that's true for ⁓ contractors too, builders, you know, same thing. Like use it for to make your life easier, to increase your efficiency and then to refine your process of how you show up, how you present yourself, what differentiates you. Because now we're not just competing against people, right? Yeah. For market share, we're competing against technology. And the best way to use that to your advantage is to understand your competitor, understand the technology, understand AI, understand how you can leverage it for your own growth and your own benefit and differentiate yourself.

speaker-1: design professionals, you know, use it as a tool. But what does it, what does it mean for say the homeowner?

speaker-0: I think use it as a tool also. You know, if you have some preliminary concept ideas that you want to see come to fruition, you know, play around with it. You see people all the time play around with the latest trends of like make AI look like I am in the 80s or, you know, the throwback pictures. And you can do the same thing for visual renders around design. If you Take a picture of your kitchen and you're like, you know, what would this look like with white oak cabinets? Then play around with it. Use it to your advantage and make sure ⁓ you can kind of I don't know, I guess cut through some of the noise and for your own ideas. Like instead of just scrolling Pinterest. Yeah. Take a scroll

speaker-1: next level. Yeah. I mean AI could actually you could take that picture and say what would this actually look like in my kitchen? Yeah. This this design, not the execute the final layout and plan, because remembering for the homeowner, it's not creating the final plan. Yeah.

speaker-0: And then if you want to move forward on that and you end up connecting with professional, be open minded. That there are other limitations in the profession that AI is probably not going to capture. And you can't be so set in your ways that you, you know.

speaker-1: I think I think for the homeowner too, like using it to play around with the idea helps you actually to s maybe even speed up some of the process and that you're not going back and forth maybe with the designer on ⁓ you know, what what about this and what about that? You know, you you can actually have the time on your own to play with it and kind of get a much more defined idea of what you want that I you can take to the designer and the designer is able to run with it quickly. You know.

speaker-0: And you can also get our return on design blueprint. That helps too. Found on our website at Audacious Designs.

speaker-1: I think that framework will help you really walk through yes to design w through w to help with AI on exactly exactly why I wanna lay it out this way. What am I solving? And really come to

speaker-0: That's where I was going. Is that once you know, okay, yeah, I kind of like this, but maybe I need to give it some tighter parameters, you know, go through the blueprint, define the goal, help help yourself to focus on like where my pain points are, why I want to shift it or shift the design or change it and what I'm really trying to accomplish. And now you plug that into your AI. render and see what it produces, what comes out of it. And then when you do go to move in with a professional or move forward with a professional, you're going to be that much further ahead. Exactly. You're going to be more confident coming in. You're going to understand what you want, not just, ⁓ I feel friction and I don't know, but I don't like it type attitude. You're going to, you're going to be ahead of the game and you're going to be ready to make the investments required to accomplish something like that.

speaker-1: Yeah, when you actually sit down now to have that conversation with your your designer and go through let's talk actual budget numbers for a specific project. We have several details kind of nailed down, lined out. This is what I want. Okay, now we can actually put the real numbers to it. And it does this become feasible? Does this is this where I want to go? Is that investment correct? Right. You know, am I gonna get that return out of it now that I've that I'm truly looking for? And You are you are that much farther along in the game.

speaker-0: Yes, that's so good. And if if you're like, you know, I have eighty thousand to spend for an example. This is what I've come up with. These are the problems I've defined. This is the goal I want to achieve. This is the look that I like. And now you come and you say, I need a professional to help me allocate this eighty thousand to accomplish the most that I can off of what I've come up with. Yeah. It's a great idea. So, you know, to sum it up, I don't think AI is going to eliminate interior designers or ⁓ hinder them as long as they embrace it and learn how to leverage it, learn how to use the tool. It's gonna continue to evolve. We are only at the beginning phases of what AI is gonna do ⁓ in the world.

speaker-1: Yeah. I mean it's it's just a growing tool that's finding more ways to be able to be used. Yeah. You know.

speaker-0: I know I'm excited about it from a visualization aspect because that's always been one of my biggest pain points is taking what's in my mind and articulating it visually so that someone can see what I already see. So being able to speed up that process is a huge win.

speaker-1: Yeah, well and for you, like being able to get that visualization, get it to somebody like me who sees, ⁓ this is you know, I see what you want. I can now actually see how to do that piece, you know, and how it's how it needs to fit in. Great. We can move. Yeah. You know.

speaker-0: And having that entrepreneurial ⁓ mindset of like technology is always changing, tools are changing. Are you adapting? Are you are you changing? Are you going with the pace of the world? Are you staying current? It's not necessarily a rat race to be the most trend focused. It has to work for your business, but you can't get left behind. Yeah. Things are changing too fast. The world is moving too quickly. Technology is our reality. So embracing it and leveraging it as an actual tool and a resource, not as a threat. And I would say that's for all trades, really.

speaker-1: Yeah, I would agree with that a hundred percent.

speaker-0: So if you are a designer, ⁓ investor, a builder, a homeowner, and you're you're curious about this type of conversation, how I AI fits into your life, your world, your business, you know, make sure you subscribe at Real Return on Design, where we talk about relevant information in today's market for this industry that actually helps you move the needle in your projects. You can also find us online at audaciousdesigns dot design.

speaker-1: And yeah, just hit that like button, follow, subscribe, send us your questions, see if there's ⁓ something we can help you with. ⁓ we'd love to hear more on your projects that you're working on too.

speaker-0: And and if you actually want to be a guest on this show, you can also inquire about that on our website. ⁓ we do have other professionals that come on and lots that reach out. So thanks for listening. Until next time.

speaker-1: We'll see you again.