Sina: Hello and welcome back to Nicht Dein Typ Frau. I'm Sina and I'm back with my favorite podcast co-host Alina. Hi, how are you? Hi. And how was Dublin? Alina: Great! Really really nice. I think it's really cool. I'm still tired from the return trip. It was extremely exhausting. Libya is a and cities are But if you an airport in the city, would really great sometimes. Without all this stuff around. Sina: It makes a lot of arrival, that he first train to the airport and so on. Alina: Yeah, so my girlfriend, we travelled on foot and one of my girlfriends came from Hamburg and she had to to the airport Then she to Ireland and then we there. That's the of the whole journey of... 3.5 hours, I mean you have to the flight time and on but I have say that Ireland is... Dublin has the advantage that you can really fast you're hour away. We did a lot cliffwalks, I hope I that right. And we a bit, but we could to another place that was only half an hour away. That means you have all this noise in the city and you can also drive Sina: for good. Alina: And was really cool. I've never been... I have say, I the pubs were really cool. We had such a great evening. I'm about it Friday or Saturday, but I think it was Saturday evening where we much fun and went to all the pubs. It was really funny. Sina: Was war dein Highlight? Yeah, I can imagine. Alina: Really so many different pubs and then everywhere also a different singer. So it's really partly so really sitting there as you imagine in film, right? Actually everyone. But there was also one with a synthesizer on way, who made lot of atmosphere and all the people. We were all so good at it, so nice to them. I the Guinness now, but I other beers. whiskey tasting. So I also whiskey now. Sina: Yeah. You Alina: That was really cool. But what I also is cool is... I think the but the vintage shops... Oh, I loved too. I was pretty successful Yeah. Now I have... four nights. That's way too short. Yeah, you have... Sina: Mega cool. ⁓ man. ⁓ wie geil. Ja, voll schön. Wie lang warst du jetzt insgesamt? ⁓ yeah, good. Aber da kannst du schon einiges sehen. Ja, natürlich. Alina: On first day we a with us, on the second day we shopping and walked Then we drove and the last day we around the city and looked at the park. Because of that there's much going on and so much to see, you really to with such city. But I think if I would would little more time and would then go out again and one or two places to Ireland so that you more of the landscape. So that's really worth trip. Sina: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's only generally an Ireland tour, it's it. Yeah, my parents were there They really two weeks. Dublin, but also traveled by car and so on. were totally excited. I've lot in my life, but I've never to the So, Ireland is not UK, I know. But I've never been to the island. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's totally Alina: Yeah, me too. Yeah, Great Britain... Yeah, right. Sina: Very weird. A lot of tell to are shocked that I didn't get there. London is something that's my agenda. I don't know what it's There are from here to London, but I to to the it. Alina: I that's also... I haven't it before. I don't would necessarily... The city doesn't to children. You have to say But our neighbors, for example, spent three weeks in good or a place in Scotland. That sounded great. So something that. with a camper. That could be cool with children. Sina: Hmm, I can imagine that too. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's mega dreamy. I say what mega dreamy, someone who has never been to the island. But I imagine it to mega dreamy. But probably only in the high summer, when the weather is really playing I don't in April or because then it's probably going to be raining all time. But yes, three or four weeks in August. Alina: Hmm, I can really recommend I definitely to again. It's really great. Sina: Ja, cool. Okay, dann würde ich sagen genug geschnackt, hast du Lust auf die Stories. Alina: Yeah, I'm a little bit tired, but I'm really a little bit tired, but I'm just curious what's going to I'll soon. I'm looking to I'm curious, I'm mainly curious. Sina: Hahaha! Okay, there is a really cool one. I'm excited. All right, then let's go. Mm-mm-mm. Yeah, I know how it when you're tired. But you can take time with the answers, I can cut it a bit tighter I'll some windows here, otherwise it's that I have so many things here. I viral again today on LinkedIn. That's always like, I don't know, when a post goes down you're somehow under adrenaline You're always like, wow, so many likes, comments and whatever. You have to... Alina: Was that the clip from today? I looked it up I a clip on LinkedIn today. Sina: Yeah. near as well. ⁓ I didn't see him and I liked Okay. ⁓ And cut. Los. Toxiche Geburtspläne. Gespräch mit meiner Tochter. Meine Tochter ist im gebärfähigen Alter, hat aber aktuell keine Pläne Kinder zu bekommen. Ihr könnt euch also vorstellen, wie überrascht ich war, als sie mir plötzlich fragte, wie die Geburt bei mir war. Und konkret, warum eine PDA so schlimm sei. I asked her where she got and she said she read it at different places. Then she me that in a post it said, you don't need a PDA if your father his job as birth partner. That is one of the most sentences I've ever heard. I really hoped that women stopped judging each other for their birth experiences. depending on whether they natural, so natural in quotation marks, or not. I explained to my daughter that long as mother and child healthy, all this counts. I had risk of and although I my first birth, in quotation marks, natural, it was simply not an option for me. I shabby at Wegen all der negativen Kommentare rund ⁓ die PDA. Und jetzt hat sich das doch gesteigert? Wenn die Mutter einen bekommt, wird jetzt auch noch der Vater schlecht geredet. Hört einfach auf damit. Das geht niemanden was an und in diesen Momenten sollte es nur ⁓ eines gehen, die Gesundheit und Sicherheit von Mutter und Kind. Ich könnte schreien. Yes, I had one. And this PDA saved my completely. Because I one of the few people who too little and had too little knowledge. Maybe because I just with this mindset all Well, I do it in the natural way. the beginning I of and only if it doesn't work I'll myself be PDA. So. And me it was that I was eventually introduced because I just a few complications at the end. And if you are then the Vs are You don't them naturally, but are produced with a medicine. They are pushed by the body. They are not so organic and are well by the body. They are stronger. Normally, and this is common knowledge, if you introduced, everyone a PDA. because it's just little more intense. And I didn't that. Back then, lot of the nurses came up and asked I a PDA. And I said, no, no, it's fine. I'll it like And the end, six hours with extremely painful pains that really one after the other. And at end, at 2 p.m. a stomach storm started. That's a typical symptom of an injection. That was the most f***ing f***ing I've My mouth was only 3 cm open. A mouth must 10 cm open for the child to I knew I'd least 7-8 hours. But... I had this brutal pain storm and that was unbearable. Every two minutes I pain, had no breaks anymore. So that was really brutal. And then I said I need a PDA. And then they me that, God. That was also a thing, because I had one pain after the other and you have to sit But in Spain it's that, put it, so in any in our hospital, put it at any time. They me from the if you a PDR, we'll it for And then they put on for me. And it doesn't hurt We're very scared of needles. You can't because it's in back and you an anesthesia. And in the moment that it worked, I first time after six hours. It such a relief for me. to these pains. And mentally it was so important to that I this PDA at this point. Because I don't know if I've been You always it somehow, but it was so crazy. And yes, from that moment it was my absolute dream birth. So the pains didn't me anymore or just a pressure. My whole body relaxed, I was much more And that's how the uterus opened completely two hours. So from that point was relatively quick. also pressing worked great. And everything great. So from the moment I this PDA, everything good. And wondered why I this, I really to this without painkillers. And that's generally a very interesting question that arises from this story. Why do we this a little bit, it has natural and refuse, or many women first refuse this PDA. And where does that from? And yeah, that's just a little personal story. The PDA, I told everyone guy who the PDA deserves a fucking Nobel Prize. So that thing saved my ass. No, was really crazy. So for me was really such great, great birth experience with the PDA. Alina: Yeah. Also, I... So, I know your story. I know that it for you. And know several people who good experiences with There are some who couldn't that much anymore, think. Because then... I don't know if they were or if... So, can... Sina: You can't get anymore. You can't get anymore, no how it's Best case you still your feet. For example, I could my feet, but you can't walk anymore. You're to the bed. That's a big disadvantage, for But because I was that's the thing, you're tied to the bed Because you're always on a machine. You can't get anyway. I a vein droplet. No, in a vein droplet. I in a droplet Alina: I think I would have to a dropper if it had That's how for me. For me was completely natural. had, you have to say that probably also because of a premature vein activity, also, well maybe, that's why it was more But I then have lot of this... Sina: Mm. Alina: I only hip birthing and because I already in this relaxation mode and was like, okay, I'll everything now and I'll it my all. I was already... Much earlier, before I the topic of I was still at the point where I didn't to it I wanted do everything medical, because I didn't any reason to it, Not all. And then I little bit it understood that following your natural instincts is also very helpful. But it something to with... Sina: Yeah. Yeah. Alina: And for me it really well. That's my story. I love the story. I a lot, I did lot of hypnosis and all for myself. And I it was really nice. I at a place where that I liked. I everything down for the PDA I to the hospital and had already out the in I a PDA. All the explanations stuff. Sina: No, no. Alina: I never died. I little bit a concern because I you have with every medical intervention. I'm scared of needles too, say. I'm always scared. That's this natural way of introducing myself to that it's to has helped But it's just... Sina: Yeah. Alina: I think her main statement is that you don't to be blinded and you don't to say that one thing is better than the other because so much can happen. There so many things that you can't influence. And I that everyone has the right to in their own way. Sina: Yeah, it is just... yeah. Alina: When the next woman decides that wants a imperial cut because she doesn't want she it. Then she a imperial cut. Her thing. Sina: Absolutely. Every birth is different. Every birth is different and intense. Some births are a few hours away from others. Others take 40 hours. Sometimes the woman says she can't anymore and she needs this PDA. Everything is totally legitimate. Every path. Everyone just to... Alina: Genau, genau. Sina: find perspective or his way. And as I my mistake was actually to the PDA Because I don't know where I got from, but somehow I it as bit negative and therefore I decided And only during my birth did I great experience with this abnormal, awesome drug, which has And what's here... Now, to to the story, what she says is incredibly toxic, is that you have many mothers who are against each other. I've more often, that they say, well, what you to me now? Hey Sina, don't even what real birth is. You haven't really experienced And then kind of... my birth experience because I an anesthesia. So that's what she writes but also where I've on social media. That's a bit an asshole, when you're bit funny about it, you're babbling around and yes, you definitely it from time to time. ⁓ I No, everything natural and the best for the child and whatever and no PDA and the man is, I say, the supporter and then that's fine. Right? Alina: I I didn't understand it. I heard it out. Or rather, a thought that me was that I don't know if I really rely on the man to do Because in the end it's my job and I decide for 100%. It's just my job, it's my freedom to decide how I do Sina: Hast du das nicht so verstanden? Yeah, sure. Alina: I I would rely him this for me. On the other hand I think... Sina: No, absolutely not, because it's not his decision. That's the toxic thing. My boyfriend would no, Sina is it without PDA. It's important that the man supports it and so on. Then it all be natural. So that a man is involved in the whole pain issue. Alina: Good night, ⁓ But I think... I didn't that out, but I understood that she said, well, as I I was very grateful for this tip with the hypnobirthing, what's on what you can and so on. I was extremely grateful for to of my fear of birth, because I a deep fear. So I on step of this natural path and thought, okay, we'll it. And it worked really well. I six hours. And the man... My partner had the task to in a way that I what I had to He definitely his task. And I can imagine, in this whole context, that the partner, if he makes sure that you your safe space, that nobody comes to you, that nobody you unnecessary stupid question, that he maybe you a little, if that's really breathing or something like he the taxi, that you just have about nothing but this birth, then it's his job and then you can just implement what is behind this statement of natural birth, so behind this, you are completely with yourself and you back to your natural instincts, because of course that doesn't if you a thousand things to and you're already completely charge. That's I understood it. That the men if the man his job, if he takes it, that the woman can then you might end a pediatrician's But that's a bit... As I think that's too black and That's too... If this, then this. And that's with a birth. You can't just say it. Sina: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. So yeah, that's how written. So write... I'm sorry, how it... Yes, you don't need a PDA if your father his job as a birth companion right. But that's, I'd a very common thing to say, you don't it if he it right, because, as I said, it's decision of the woman. He can the best birth companion in world. If the woman decides she wants a PDA then she a PDA. And then, that's not, I'd a thing... As I it's totally individual, which is the question, I Why do see the PDA as so negative? Why is it being punished? That one says, no, not, rather... Of course, because, that's quite interesting, I did some research It's not... First of all... No study shows any harm for the child, that is often said, that it could somehow autism or something. Yes, there are a of rumors. There are also a lot of rumors that this generally bad for the mother and also bad for the birth return or for the whole experience. And there is also a shoddy study about it, which over half a million women have asked it. it was found out that it wasn't true. Even the mothers who a PDA had a lower risk of heart attack, eclampsia or other life threatening diseases. So general the PDA had a positive effect. And so it can't be that someone says, well, I'll say from a point of I don't PDA because I could have some negative effects. And now I'll another Alina: I just read that it can be that you can't really put the test and then you can't really swing That could be So could be that because of it's just... and you have to, I think... Sina: that's right. Alina: I compare it to the that at the end I had my veins a little bit left over towards the end of my birth. As I said, just about to a vein drop. And I just anyway because I thought... Although I didn't that urge and I think that's about it. That you just it, even though you that huge push 100%. And think you have or you have to the instinct to I no idea. But that's the only thing I've ever heard. And if you... I don't know. I've heard that... Sina: Yeah. Alina: So is already a small, a wound is a bit, there can of course be as with any other wound. But I haven't yet. Sina: Yes, of course. So, about pressure, the PDA has to very well laid That's important, so that you can and be For me, it was really excellent, very well laid was really insane. The woman who that for me, the anesthetist, anesthetist, she was super unfriendly, I swear, was so unfriendly to me. Alina: you Sina: But I was never a human being. So fucking grateful. I kissed her for no reason. She did it so well. And I so good And I pressed Everything worked out for me. As I know, medicine has no disadvantages. We're back to the topic of women's pain. Where you say, well, we've this topic a lot in that women's pain is little bit So a woman is more, I would say... A woman is more accepted that she has this pain. That's me a little bit... I don't know, little bit medical misogyny. So a little bit... I read a little bit research about There's a of ancient traditions that are rooted in and lot of biblical shit is anchored in the minds of people these days. a little bit a has under pain and that's just a tradition thing. Alina: Also, I mean, that we have a topic there, we've already said So, women's pain and so on. I you, right? So, as as medicine is and so on, I'm totally on your side, but as far as that is concerned, I see it a little differently. Because I think there is more of a gap between school medicine and healing practice. You There is also such a gap. And the topic of births and and that they pain and so That has another background. In past, women were being mocked for being life to world. You never really why and that the man was involved in That came out later. And then women were being mocked for But the whole Christian tour and they course reduced again and didn't the woman any attention anymore. Because it's also... Yes, then again with sin, yes, with sin connected. Yes, exactly, you have sex and that was in the minds of the men who somehow to the world, not to be right? So huge disaster. The whole thing so far that, example, so I think it was also in Middle Ages, where women were completely without help. So whole medical care was completely on Sina: And had a sex before Alina: Men were there was no medical care anymore, and even more for the births. There simply wasn't. It was under women, there were therefore birth defects and so on, but this whole branch for the medicine was not used to be for births. So they just didn't They just said, shit on the woman, she's doing some kind of sin thing and we don't to do anything So it was generally a topic that only women have dealt with. Yes, I actually read back then, this whole topic. And I also checked yes, of they just didn't see Only first Katharina the big one said she would now please have painkillers for her birth. And only then did it start that it was a medical topic for women. Before that, of course, also died during birth. And you just ignored it. And only then... Well, I'm always bad at history. Of course I can't it a But only with time did come to that the whole area around birth only medical care. And before that just wasn't there. And that's I think... Exactly... Sina: Yes, then we know a little bit where it comes from. Where this still goes on from generations and why this deviation is To such a pain care for a woman. Because it is not seen as naturally biological. So if someone foot, you a pain remedy. But if you a child to world. Alina: Yeah, but... you to... I think... No, that's a difference. I'm really a difference. Because I'm... I'm really not on esoteric path or anything. But when that topic, I thought, okay, because... I mean, it's also bit connected to that we a path. Only this shitty straight path makes our birth so hard. Because everything is so solid, the whole pelvis is so solid. The that on four legs get much easier children because the pelvis is not so aligned that we do in the upright way. That's one thing. And why we need a medical care or what's behind it, it's because we are We know what happens during a birth. That makes us automatically afraid because you think, hey, just can't work. It's just not humanly possible what we fabricate Sina: Hmm. Alina: And, uhm, you've also noticed that people in more education-oriented groups get much easier children because they don't think about They just this instinct and pull themselves back and do it in peace. One you know, gets a little a headache and thinks he has to to the hospital first. That's where So instead of relaxing and yourself into the cave and saying, my child is a very atmosphere. That's the basic idea of hypnobirthing or natural birth, in a and relaxed zone. Because the killer, and the pain, the biggest problem is our fear. The fear that comes with what can happen, what happens to me, why do cramp? We cramp out of fear. And actually the body has open up. And now it should open up while we're really scared of what's going to That doesn't Sina: ⁓ Yeah. I understand all this because you explain that if you follow and are totally relaxed and with the flow, you don't necessarily a PDA. But as I we said at that there are births where you need a PDA, others don't. Some women want it early, some later, some never. The question for me is why is it so stale? Why is it so popular among women? Why is it so popular that generally, seems like it's some of internet thing that a young girl read that said, you shouldn't do whatever. And as I it seems to a bit on the internet or generally in society. Don't that, has to natural and whatever. And if you fucking pain as woman, whatever. The thing is, of course, you have No man through The woman through it. Alina: Yeah, well, but... that's I agree with I think you shouldn't She asks, she researches, that's good. She gets You say, we should get should open for such possibilities. I agree with that. I think this sentence is not so wrong that if the man his job, you might not a PDA. That's I see this sentence. Sina: Yeah, but that's different. That's different. You say, if you good supporters, you might not a PDA. That's a very important in this context. Because they clearly say, you don't a PDA if your father his job as birth partner right. That's a lot of sh... Alina: And the man his job, ... I say eventually, exactly. Sina: So much so... ⁓ Alina: I think I'm in this... I think men in this context are more to down and order a pizza. That's me. Someone who doesn't see responsibility should his wife. I could be shocked. That's I see a bit... different. You know? Sina: Yeah, yeah, of I'm with it. But for example, I had a PDA, but also me brutally. Carlos the child out of He was really with the midwife. Yeah, that was really crazy. I thought that was weird, because the midwife asked if I to go it. And then he went around and they said, I pressed it, and they it of it. Alina: Okay. Sina: And Carlos tells me until Carlos tells me until today, was the most experience he's ever had. And that he was like that. It was super important because he was part of the birth and not such a passive part. I didn't a shit. I was so done. But although I PDA, I was just incredibly tired. And yes. Alina: What? That was just. Sina: So he was a great supporter, but as I said... Alina: Well, at least he doesn't care. So I have to give Carlos now. Because most men don't to it. of fear. They don't the woman erotic anymore. that's I think to myself... Yeah... There are so many of Are there so many them? Well... Yes. Sina: Yeah, but that's ultra fucked up. So you're bastard. Nah. I don't a study on how many men are that, but I've never heard anyone from my circle of saying that he birth or doesn't look more because he might the woman attractive after I would probably him in the face, sorry. But woman birth? Yes. Of I can't tell you how all men tick. Alina: We are at the bubble. We are at the bubble. There are some that are like Sina: Men, please Is that a topic that you don't erotic I think it shouldn't be sexier. Okay, sexy is probably the wrong expression, but it shouldn't more attractive than a fucking strong woman who new life into world. Who your child into world. That's the empowering, strongest and coolest thing. that's what it's all But of there's everything. Okay, let's go back to the story. Are we done? Did we discuss everything about PDA? Alina: I think so. basically, inform, inform, really think and I feel is decisive because I think it is also one of the most controversial topics because everyone who a bad experience wants to it. Those who have good experience think they the whiteness with spoons. Sina: Maybe what we could do, what would we guess? I'll you're on a playground and your comes and asks me, did you actually a PDA seeder? And I say, yes, I one. And she says, then you don't know what a birth is. Then you don't this birth experience and that's all so bad. What could you counter Alina: Oh, no, nothing. I think Gert is going to through. Sorry. Why? Why? I would just say... I don't it I differently. I would just say... I don't know. Sina: Yeah, I think I would say first... Leave me alone, go away! Alina: I would probably ask. I would probably just ask and ask, okay, tell me, what makes your birth so special? Sina: Yeah, no, it's also quite good to ask bit. So I would say, if a woman has extreme pain, if a woman has over 30 hours, if a woman, for certain reasons, that's a topic, is simply afraid. So for example, because you're just so afraid of birth. And then you I this relieving agent that maybe also saves you lot of pain and anxiety and stuff. So you could like that in the if you comments. And otherwise we just away, leave me alone. And I think that's totally degrading and crazy that you say that. If someone sees this... Alina: Or just a standard sentence like, hey, I'm always there for supporting women. Done. Just in Sina: Okay, dann gehen wir zur nächsten Story. How are you Alina? you good for the flow? Alina: Yeah, I did in a rage. It very controversial topic. I it's bad when we don't agree. So... Yeah. Sina: Sehr gut! I think good. I think good. No, it's just because we've 40 minutes now and I still two stories. But I would say we'll still both of and maybe I'll one out. I'll one out and do it in the next podcast, Then I'll just go now. Okay. Alina: Yeah Sina: I helped my mother with her life and it broke my heart. My mother is a rare expert in her field, quotation marks, senior level. And she recently for job at an level in our western country. Okay, sorry, I have to write I helped my mother with her life and it broke my heart. My mother is a rare expert in her field, in quotes, senior level. Recently she applied for job at a level in our western country. She said she was not sure if she her time with But she me to her writing and take a look at her life before she sends off. Because she seemed a bit insecure, I offered to polish so that she would and her chances would increase. I knew that after the divorce, single mother, she herself out of anger until where she is today. Aber was mich dann erwartet ⁓ hatte, aber was ich nicht erwartet hatte, was sie alles getan hat, bevor ich und mein Geschwisterkind auf die Welt kamen. Als sie mir davon erzählte, brach mir das Herz. Sie erzählte mir, dass sie ihr Masterstudium in Rechtswissenschaften abgebrochen hat, als sie meinen Vater geheiratet hat. to him with his career, although he less education. She quit her job, which was paid back because my father refused to work although it was that we should be And when my parents got divorced, she was her own family as a sheep. because she was a divorced woman. That my grandparents completely refused to help her us children and dress That there were moments when she thought she made a mistake, but that she is happy about it because she doubts that she would the chance to the experiences she in her current profession. And that Our family still understand what does and her expertise seriously. Yeah. Yeah, I can totally understand that she little bit sad about it. And that's what makes me very much affected from this story. But first of I think great that this woman is apparently very successful She does her thing, worked a single mother out of poverty. So she has such a lot of props. But of course it's a lot of story. And it would probably shock if she the real life story of her mother. And I it's bad. And first of could talk it, because I that's... Maybe we here on the podcast. The most is that she her career to the children, although she had better education or a higher education level, as I understood it. Plus, that she also just earned in her job than her husband or then engaged. I definitely think it's really tough and think it's real picture of the society back Even more crass than it is today, men had a problem when a woman, I'll above everyone, had a problem when they had a higher education education than them. and more money. Although that's actually something positive. It's really cool if someone in more money. With more money you can afford more things, more freedom. But it seems like it's to so bad for the men that they feel even more and even smaller. And that's it's not liked. And the time, course, many women have joined because they grew so because they know With the whole topic of the man you have to... I don't want to say obey, but a little bit... In marriage you just have to A bad support. You have to... I have my roles. I my thing and everything out well, but when I married and have children... I myself out of and give up my job, give up my career and I'm just a mom. Alina: Yeah, I think it's also... It's not a rarity, It's happened And... It's... I think it's also very... It's touching, the story. Also because you can how lonely you are when you decide to go another way at that time. How many men really counted and also a divorce that is not accepted because you without the man and your own life. To of for entertainment and... all these things, although she totally sucks at or has gained professional experience, as she says. But it's... it's... I don't know which generation, but if it's the generation of our mother or maybe even one before that, then that was the reality. Women exist only with their men and if something done that doesn't go as planned, that go as agreed upon, the man has to be supported. And how it not like that, right? And yes, then you these sacrifices for the children and... then actually has a daughter such crazy role model in terms of what you can achieve even if you are totally slowed down. I actually think also very admirable, also as a daughter or from the view of a daughter, what kind of paths she has Sina: Absolutely. What do you that she's so... Sure, mother is ultra strong. She's ultra... Yeah. Alina: Well, look at what a crazy woman this is now. And she was also broken I mean, yes, on the one hand can say, the main point is that you mention that the depression, so the depression you feel and you know that she could so much if she had had little more support. If she had just lived a woman at this time, let's that way, maybe. At this time or maybe in ten years or so. How much else could have gone wrong with a more man? ⁓ Sina: Mm. Alina: this ⁓ Sina: I think it's really crazy that she never told her. I it's crazy. Her whole life she's just her life, and that's how she's first time. Conversations with her daughter, where she tells her how it was That's me. I don't know how to rate it. For me, it's simple picture of how much this woman has taken back. For me, she has that... Her husband... I think the word support is really shitty in that context. But she has... No, not because her, but it sounds so positive. But I this whole story that I end my career and support my husband. not that positive. But... Alina: Sorry. Sina: that she has such a great history and she it to and doesn't tell anyone that she she studied or that she actually earned or something like So she really subordinated to took Maybe also to avoid her husband from making or her ex-husband. But even after the divorce she didn't much about And yeah, crazy. I imagine, I have a conversation with my mother and she gets applied somewhere and then she me a CV where she studied or something I would out of all the I think it's a really surprising moment for the daughter. And as I I have to sort out why you... why she is so harshly that she never even told about for decades. And somehow she also Maybe she wanted her daughter, also the whole grandparent theme and so, that she had a fight there. That for me again for a really extraordinarily strong woman. Alina: I don't Yeah, I think that's more likely. Because I think... I think things like that... Well, it would have the way She would have always been the thematic. She would said, yes, I up my career or because I with you, I gave that. That always children to a call. That's just like... And maybe she already had a bad conscience, or maybe she felt bad that her marriage failed. Sina: Mm. Alina: I don't know to up independently of their father or how they grew up. It didn't bad. I don't she said she missed as a child. But wasn't as picture book-like. And maybe already carried that, the mother. The topic alone, and then to say, yes, and my career has suffered under it. I think... Sina: Mm-hmm. Alina: I you wouldn't really with your children. That's why I think it's crazy how she did And grandparents, that's so typical. I've also got this topic. Which child is preferred, whether boy or a in very traditional families, where grandparents also themselves very strongly and say, we take of or we don't Sina: Yes, Yeah, absolutely. Alina: you have been the family is and there things like there's weird stuff. There's really no Sina: Fucked. Yeah Yeah, I saw still before I had an elder and re reggier so off dich. this is so true. I got lost. Which a generation is a Alina: Thank you. I after my separation I was I mean, you're already busy with the that the family is no together, that's already hard. And I was so... I mean, of everyone around me felt was shame and stuff, but everyone was like, yeah, then it's just like that. So then it's a shame, but then it's like that. It's it's kind of like... ...so relatively normal. So wasn't... was nobody who said, can it Yes, yes, but I just something else. I'm totally glad it went But you that the Petrock families are very different than they ten years So even single children or children from separated families are no longer socially so different today as they four years ago. Sina: And it's to Alina: There is a separation, at the moment. Sina: And I'll you something, think that separation is much, much healthier. So, yes, people used to say, look, the person X has divorced parents, and the rest, they're all still together and that's this family good and this isn't. So I'll you, of all the families that together, where the parents are still together, that's 90 percent. I'm convinced that. Also broken marriages, where you can't break because you're afraid of being considered socialized or that you lose or whatever. And these people together, every day or just live next to each or don't to each other anymore. Yes, or something that. And that's not good for the children either. So it's to Alina: Or they live a lie. They just a lie to the children. Sina: you just to your own and if a marriage or a partnership doesn't work and you say, maybe I've something or something, but it just anymore. And then it's much healthier to separate and then course the whole thing well. If that in a war, that's not at all. But if you find a clean, good distribution where both are active to with the child, both parents are there and so on, then it's much healthier. So if they live together and somehow each all day or are totally frustrated with each other, the child gets much more out yeah. So, at time you were totally lost. Totally. And maybe one more thing I'd to come because you it nicely, because you said... Wait a minute... Yes, exactly, you always it the time it was also that you, yes, rather, I'd say, put for the man and rather, I'd say, supported And... I I new word. I'm not that creative because so fast. Alina: You can say you're back for the man. Sina: I think that's better. But we see a huge trend at moment, where a lot of towards nostalgia. And we're in crazy times, a lot of people are to the past. And that's where the threat vibes into play. You can see that there are bigger bubbles, where a traditional life is wished And maybe even lived, so that you say, okay, I won't my career, I won't my job, but I'll completely in this traditional life. And I think this is a very nice example that shows, if you little bit in the past and get stories out that something that badly, very quickly. So you just to some point... So I would say it's wrong that the woman is somehow completely buttered and somehow all her great skills and all the potential that is her, which is so long as this marriage, could never be which I somehow find because this woman is apparently incredibly fatally. And at the time, of course, also huge issue because she also in the story that the mother worked out of poverty. That means that this had brutal consequences for time, such a divorce. And that is of course also simply this danger with the Dreadwives. And I don't want to For me, the only thing I don't care how people live, they work or not, part-time, full-time, traditional, non-traditional. But this financial independence is so important to preserve. And plus... Yeah, I'll just that. I think that's the only reason why... against this dread wife spin, really this whole issue of financial independence. And yes, that's why I movements critical. Alina: Yeah, I thought too. You a good job. But financial or general dependency that is a lifestyle is kind of risky, I would say. And although I always think that can live the they want to if someone doesn't want then he can do Sina: extremely risky. Total. that you have to ask that would be really crazy if you say, okay, want to a new dress and then I my husband if I the money and so on. So that's not super critical. So if you can't afford your own money anymore, but as I said, you're on this income from your husband. Yes, but as I said, is only one thing wrong, is the divorce. And it comes faster than you think, especially when you're a dependency relationship. Because it's just a power shift. And one person is, I'd the one person has more power than the other. And that always in weird undynamics. And... Yeah, very difficult. And if you a ShredWive thing, you have to a really good marriage contract. And think anyone who loves you... He does the with you. If you say, wife wants a traditional life, she will work but she will work Not working is a bit strange. But you to make sure that she the that it is regulated, who how much money, that the woman can also things freely and so on. then it might work. But yeah. ⁓ Alina: I think it can only work if money doesn't a role, to honest. I think as soon as you... As soon as you... No, yes, but not with the super-rich, it doesn't But I think as soon as you on a lot things and as soon as you an existence, then these models are always difficult. Sina: But money always a role. Money plays in every life. Alina: You it only if one part well deserved and if that's not the case, then it critical. I think in super rich relationships. But think we're too far from the Sina: Yeah. Yeah, totally. I know. We're getting too far. We'll probably have one two Treadlife stories in the podcast. But as I said, we're seeing a little bit from stories where we think that this from our parents or grandparents, that this can again in our current time, if you relationships. And I understand that they... that all, well, the daughter thinks this story Her mother's and mine are pretty crazy Oh... Yeah, good. Yeah, this has a lot of roots. Hopefully we from a little bit, in our lessons. Okay, next story. Mein männlicher Kollege sagte mir heute, mein Tonfall sei, in Anführungszeichen, einschüchtern. Ich habe nur nein gesagt. Wir hatten heute ein Projektmeeting und er versuchte mir seinen administrativen Kleinkram zuzuschieben. Ich habe nicht gelächelt, ich habe mich nicht entschuldigt, ich habe ihm einfach angeschaut und gesagt, nein, dafür habe ich gerade keine Kapazitäten. Apparently, the setting of a completely normal professional limit is an existential threat, because he actually told my case was embarrassing. I so incredibly sorry that women are to every statement in several layers of cotton candy, just so that the ego of an adult man is not scratched. geht's noch. Alina: Somehow I like it. I'm about who... Sina: Well, it's just a story. I'm sure a lot people have experienced Well, we should all limit ourselves. We should all limit ourselves. We should set all limits, but only as long as nobody threatened. Alina: Yeah, exactly. We should limits, should for ourselves, but what if we really do Then I like again, Kay. Sina: Yes, exactly, that's exactly the point. Because we read so much theory about this whole thing, about yes and no and whatever. And then you get empowered and then you told, yes, do it like and set your limits and whatever. And then you your limits and then you hit the face. And that doesn't you all. Because that doesn't you feel good. That's what you no. And no, I don't you that with me. Oh no. Yeah. But it's that she said So, very good. Alina: you're afraid to anything at I can't into the story but it's not that important The topic is really the same. And it's just, you you say something and it's like, I didn't It's always totally surprising. Sina: Yeah, I think it's just not being that much, or it's just unexpected for many men that women, I'd the table, that they stand Maybe especially when it's a switch, when someone has always a lot and now maybe says, no, I'm that anymore and I'm going to my own and... But it's so funny because when a man says in no, I don't have any capacity for it, I think she it relatively neutrally, then it's just accepted. But if you it as a woman, you're just somehow being yes, that would be embarrassing and whatever. And what's behind it? Behind this, yes, your tone is too embarrassing for just means I don't want you to to me that or I don't want you to no. It's just another tactic to make the woman insecure. It's like a toxic shit from some man who thinks he has to act against I say no, don't to, and he what are you, you're beast, but that's pretty embarrassing. It's just super unprofessional and it's... Yeah, it's a tactic to call that. Alina: I also when I think about how it in meetings. It's quite often the that when someone is in room, will be spoken Not by all the men in the room either. It's said, no, I it differently. But it's more like the leader of is Maybe there's still a thought rush, but really heated debates only about when two people are the same level. is that you a of rattle behavior and say, well, you're along. But when I stop, you say, no, I won't it. Not from that perspective. Because then the question is, what rank does the man the woman at? But it's... Sina: I want to the secretary. I still to thought behind it. That the woman is happy to Alina: Yeah, it's just so senseless. There are those moments when you're why are you this? I'm I just thought I'd talk You can try And you're like, well, it's good, I'll it myself. There are always cool things around. Yeah, well, I watch that more often. But... Sina: Yeah. Alina: Yeah, it's... I think men are different when it comes to they should or not. The rank plays a big role. They don't no They often say, yeah, I'll No, men aren't that good Sina: I am. But definitely better than women. But yes, should all to that. Alina: Yes, but they don't necessarily to the person, but rather the task and say, it's not that important the other thing is more important. And women somehow take a lot with and they always this comprehensive view, I have often observed that we women think lot more in many directions and thus automatically more detours. Sina: Yeah. Alina: Although you need a very clear division of at But only if you the foresight, you do that, well, then you can do too. But that's not the thing. So... Yes. Sina: Yeah. It's like a punishment. Instead of okay, this is a great project manager and she knows everything, she everything under and the division afterwards. Then it's all pushed towards the woman, that she somehow together, the whole thing. Alina: But we should all practice to set no and just talk out. Then you won't be so surprised Sina: Absolutely. I am actually someone who often no as a I would say in my whole life. And I hard on It wasn't always like that. And then I feel much better. Because every no is also yes for you. And yes, it's a good saying and it's really like that. Alina: I've read Sina: and everything that I in private. So I say incredibly often no. And I'm getting better better So I it's good that I said So, exactly. But it's not necessarily about saying here, she's already on her. Rather that you don't have to push yourself too ...someone who feels more hurt So the guys have to work themselves. Okay, then what is the next bit worth? Schöne Podcastfolge. Hat viel Spaß gemacht und wir sehen uns beim nächsten Mal. Bis dann, tschüss!