Timoteo: Yes, hello, this is Timothy Hull Gina Beavers: Yes, hello. This is Gina Beavers Timoteo: And welcome to Beavers and Butthead. Yeah, the or also known as unstretched. Gina Beavers: Unstretched, yeah, a beaver's butt head. my god. Do you think like a lot of our listeners, I think we have a very intergenerational listenership, but I wonder who don't know I don't do Timoteo: Who will not get that reference? I'm sure they do. Gina Beavers: you think that yeah, a lot of them do. Yeah. Timoteo: It just occurred to me though that that makes me the butt head. You're the beavers. Gina Beavers: I know. Well, I was like, what would I say if I was gonna make up one? And I would be like, welcome to the matriarchy. Because I just feel I was telling my I'm in a group chat with artists in Jersey and it was originally entitled Nick My Balls because it was sorry. Is this getting too wild right off the bat? But it was entitled that because we went to all the Nick's like screening. We went to see the Knicks Timoteo: right. Okay. Gina Beavers: and then somebody posted a picture of like a nail salon that said blush and believe. So now it's Nick My Balls in parentheses blush and believe. Anyway, that group chat we were talking about the character of That area, the northeast, New New York, New Jersey, and how it differs from where I am now. And I said that area is very aggressive, aggro in a certain kind of way. It's tough guy energy in a certain way. And then the Bay Area is very matriarchal. I would say the energy is very yeah, which I love, obviously, but I'm leaning into it very heavily. anyway, sorry. Did that just totally Am I like a different Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: person coming to this podcast? You're looking at me like I'm like Timoteo: No, you definitely have your California Earth Mother vibes. Gina Beavers: Well and I was just saying that my sunglasses are gonna fully Timoteo: Especially the sunglasses, yeah. Gina Beavers: turn by the time 'cause we're recording a little bit later and the sun just streams in here. Timoteo: But your look is out of time. it I feel like you look like you could be from the sixties, maybe the seventies, even possibly the eighties. Exactly. Feminist bookstore, exactly. Gina Beavers: Totally. Totally. It's very like feminist bookstore, I think. Like Yeah. Well, I just thank you for letting me take a week off. I'm very sorry to you and our listeners that I had to take last week off. I just felt incredibly overwhelmed and but I've I missed talking to you and I miss making the podcast. I just we had our open house yesterday and Keith had been in town and I was just like running, like trying to get things done for the open house. And so I thank you for letting me take a week off. There's really no excuse other than I was overwhelmed. completely that's okay and it Timoteo: I think that's an ex I think that's a perfectly valid excuse. Yeah. Gina Beavers: feels very like here like they embrace that too it's kind of like do you need some self-care do you need to take a break do you need and I did actually work crazy like 12 hour days every day so it wasn't in vain I wasn't like watching you know at the beach I was like it was like Timoteo: Gina, I'm sure you did because you are definitely have always been one of the hardest working women in show business. Gina Beavers: that's too sweet. I don't yeah, I mean, thank you. I don't know. It's to my own like crazy making. But yeah, I like to work. When I have a deadline I will I will work. Yeah. Timoteo: Yeah, you will grind it out. Gina Beavers: Yeah. So but how have you been? You look very Yeah. Timoteo: I don't do deadlines. Deadlines for me, I w the thing I love most about deadlines is the sound they make is they swoosh in front of my face. Gina Beavers: I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: No, I'm very good at deadlines, but I don't I I don't sweat deadlines because like I've said before, I'm always working in a way like as if I have deadlines. So when I do get deadlines, Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: I'm like, no sweat, I'm already mostly done. Gina Beavers: Yeah, that's amazing. I'm jealous and jealous of people like you. Yeah, that's such yeah. Timoteo: I'm I'm good, you know. I I have been binging on candy corn the past two days. Like my annual candy corn binge has begun. Like I I every year I buy one package of Brock's candy corn and I eat the whole thing as fast as possible. If I can eat the whole bag in one day, which is nearly impossible, Gina Beavers: Mm. Really? Mm-hmm. Timoteo: maybe it takes me two days to finish it. It is a insane process to eat a whole bag of candy corn in like two Gina Beavers: Wow. Timoteo: But I will throw it away if I'm not done in two days. But I do it, I do it every year. I've been doing it for most of my life. I love, I love candy corn so much. It's such a guilty, Gina Beavers: If you're not interesting. That's your thing. That is your virtual. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: awful har it's like for me, it's like buying a pack of cigarettes, smoking the whole pack in one day. Like it's Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just a finishing. Timoteo: it it's as deeply satisfying as that. It's like Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: one period of time that I get to totally like just Rumspringa and lose control and binge on this awful thing that feels so good when you're doing it, but then makes you feel Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: so shitty when it's over. but I love it. Gina Beavers: Uh-huh. Do you do the little nibble, like the little white, and then the yellow, you do the layers or Timoteo: I do it all. I do it every way. I I eat it in layers. I shoved like ten into my mouth. My new thing now is I like to hold them in my hand and get them nice and soft. And Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: so they start sort of getting soft and then I eat them. I have so many different it's so disgusting. Like I'm so Gina Beavers: wow. Timoteo: sorry to everyone because but but you know it comes once a year. Candy corn comes but once a year. Gina Beavers: We do Yeah. Comes once yeah. Timoteo: I I love this that seasonal aspect of it. I can I only have access to it this time of year. Gina Beavers: I think it I that might be one of the last 'cause remember how peeps used to be once Timoteo: Mm-hmm. Gina Beavers: a year and now they're like every season? That's so foul. That's like really I'm so glad. That's so Timoteo: Yeah. Exactly. I reject that. But no, candy corn is still you can only get it in this period of time. And I love that idea of like a limited run of something. Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: It's like imagine if they only let you smoke cigarettes for like two weeks out of the year. You know, it'd be great. We'd all be smoking for two weeks out of the year and having a great time of it. And then we forget about it and then we'd look forward to Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: the next time of the year we could do. Gina Beavers: Yeah, like a little vacation from yeah, that's cool. What about the pumpkins, the little candy corn pumpkins? Would you ever no, they don't. No. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: No, I only do the little triangular one. And I only like the Brock's ones. And they used to be made with real honey, and they don't have that anymore, so they're not as deeply satisfying. But I do, Gina Beavers: interesting, yeah. Timoteo: there's something about the waxiness of the candy corn with the intense sugar of the candy corn that Gina Beavers: yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: it's a it's it's just a very intoxicating mix from for me, psychologically and emotionally. Gina Beavers: I think there have to be. It's amazing. There has to be Timoteo: Yeah, it's very comforting. Gina Beavers: I feel like there are paintings of candy corn. Somebody has done that. Rob Pruitt. No. If anybody's Timoteo: I don't want to see them. probably. Gina Beavers: if anyone's made paintings of candy corn, please send them to us. Or if you've seen them, we'll post them. Yeah, Halloween. my Timoteo: So what are you gonna what are you gonna be for Halloween, Gina? Gina Beavers: God. It's gonna be like scrounging around the headlands trying to find. Timoteo: But clearly you're gonna be doing Gina Beavers: huh. Timoteo: something 'cause you're in this commune and people do things. Yeah. Gina Beavers: Right, we have to do something party. But there is a wedding here on Halloween, 'cause they rent out. Well, I don't know. I hope they dress up, but I have a feeling it won't be. But yeah. I know. Not allow people to wear costumes. I know. I'm gonna be like Yeah, that would be so fun. Yeah. Timoteo: Ooh, a spooky wedding? the bride of Frankenstein? Yeah. I can you get married in Halloween and not make it like a spooky wedding? I don't think that's that's inappropriate. But then it'd be a weird wedding if everyone's dressed like Dracula and zombies and stuff. Although I'd love it. Gina Beavers: So I don't know. I guess we haven't made plans. We've made plans this week, though. We're gonna go to Jessica Silverman has an opening on Wednesday night, Gahee Park. And there's another artist. I'll I'll find out. Like the they have a project room also. So we're gonna go to that opening and then Thursday night, a bunch of us are going to see you can see everything, which is the Nathan Fielder documentary. Yeah. So Timoteo: Is that the Theranos woman Katie Holmes or whoever? Gina Beavers: Yeah, there's a theater in Tiburon right here with couches. Elizabeth Holmes, I think. Yeah. Timoteo: Elizabeth Holmes. Yeah. I knew it was Holmes something. Gina Beavers: Yeah. So people are ra Timoteo: Does not interest me. Gina Beavers: people are raving about it. Actually, I I met your friend Ra Rafi Rafe yesterday was saying Timoteo: Well, you're in the right place. Rafe? Rafe. Rafe Tiffany. Gina Beavers: you have to go see it. It's like insane and amazing. So yeah. Yeah. Okay. Reconsidering. Tim is reconsidering. Yeah. Timoteo: Yeah. really? Rafey recommended it? All right, well Okay. No, I I who knows? I'll I'll see it if Cory wants to see it. Corey is the keeper Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Timoteo: of American TV and movies for me. Gina Beavers: nice. cool. So you have to get to Cory. I have to Timoteo: Exactly. Gina Beavers: I have to plant some seeds there and Yeah. We watched so we had just a little so we had our open house, which was amazing. Like tons of people came through and talk about our work, sort of like an open studio, but very exhausting. And I can't tell if it's like I'm exhausted because in the broader context of the headlands, it's very chill. is that something I could have done way easier in New York and just not even noticed? Like we're here I'm so relaxed, like it feels like a lot. Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: yeah. So but it it was fun then we had like drinks and stuff afterwards and then we watched the fifth element on VHS Which actually full disclosure, I fell asleep I multiple times. It was and I don't know if it was Timoteo: Yeah, well why not? Gina Beavers: if it was the movie or if it's the VHS, I can't quite see it. I need it to be digital. Yeah, I don't know. I can't Timoteo: I think it's the VH yeah, I think it's the VHS probably. The resolution. Gina Beavers: yeah, the resolution's too low for me now. Yeah. Timoteo: You're used to high to everything has to be in a high definition. So for this so for the open studio at the headlands, so were you expected Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: to have completed work shown or the work in progress out or what like what was the the vibe of the whole thing? Gina Beavers: Yeah, to be honest with you, the greatest one of the greatest things about the headlands is like you apply with a project and but they're just so totally supportive of what you wanna do. I mean everybody's making work, everybody's working on things that you can't not. Like it's just you have nothing but time to do that. But at the same time, no, there's no expectation. and you can sign up to do whatever you want. If you want to do a performance, if you want to do this, if you want to do that, you can but they're they don't have any expectation of what you'll do, you know. So that's kind of the greatest thing ever. Like every time I come back in here, like come through the tunnel, I'm just like, my gosh, a whole community of people who just want me to work in whatever way I want. You know, it's like, I mean, truly a gift. Timoteo: But so in the end you don't have to present there at the end there's no you have to have have completed this or is there a little exhibition Gina Beavers: No no. Timoteo: or you just pack up and leave like Gina Beavers: Yeah, pretty mu in three weeks, I will be gone and I will have sent everything or had things go in different yeah. So but yeah, so that but I just tried to put on the best kind of installation of what I've been working on. I mean it's really five weeks of work just to show people to have conversations with people, you know, to show people as much of my process as I could and things I've been working on. So yeah, it was fun. Timoteo: So I know that my old friend Rafy Tiffany came through. He lives in the Bay Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: Area now. He lived in New York for many years, but he I went to Berkeley and he's from California. But I wonder if any other people of interest or of note came through that you were like, Wow, like or hello or new people or Gina Beavers: Yeah, like who well there were listeners of the pod and I actually frantically Timoteo: cool. Gina Beavers: looked up the one listener. There's another residency called Cal C my god, you guys, I'm so sorry. I will correct this later. Caldera, maybe, or ca just C A something, and it's in Berkeley and it's primarily focused on printmaking. And so a bunch of those people came through and some of them had listened to the podcast. There is an artist, Kate, Dodd from East Orange that I know who was in town. She's originally from this area and she listens to the podcast and she yeah, so there were different people. There were former board members of the Headlands, just lots of really engaged, smart I had such great conversations with people. People weren't afraid to jump in and say what the work made them think of or like free associate. Like in a way that like New Yorkers might be a little bit more concerned about a little more self conscious perhaps I don't know. Like people Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: were very comfortable talking about art and getting into it and being excited about it. And it was Timoteo: And to that open studio did the did the residency program bring in curators or writers or other kind of professional people or is it really just the arts community that shows up or what is the how Gina Beavers: Yeah, I think a lot of those people are invited and come to all the open houses. There were definitely curators here. yeah, my friend Anna Katz, who just is sort of new to SF MOMA, came through and some of them under the radar, like gallerists were here. Yeah, there were definitely people and they definitely invite them. So you have that opportunity, you know, for those people to come through as well. Timoteo: And do they have an open studio during every kind of cohort or is it every every four months they have an open studio an event? Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, a summer one, a a fall one. Yeah. So yeah. Timoteo: I see, okay. Yeah, seasonal. Gina Beavers: Yeah. The sun is getting really crazy, right? Look at me. I can't hide from the like the lighting. Look at this. This is like every little, Timoteo: I love it. I can't hide from the yeah, wow. Gina Beavers: every little. When you were talking about candy corn, I had like a snack, insane snacking, because I was stressed and working. And I was like shoving popcorn at my face like that. And I was like, I'm gonna break out like all over my face because it's just like grease. And sure enough, Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: I have like I've totally broken out. So I'm gonna move back out of the sun. Timoteo: popcorn, it'll get you every time. Gina Beavers: The vanity. Yeah, so it's just so great. I don't know, every day I feel like I'm uncovering how great this place is and how everybody needs to apply. it's competitive, but I but it's not impossible, and they really just value real people who are really engaged in their work. This week or the last couple weeks we got a bunch of new air artists in residence, mostly writers. there's a playwright, there's a novelist. Yeah, different people are so that's been really fun to like talk to them about. Yeah, just like cross yes. Timoteo: I love that idea. The idea of interdisciplinary residencies is really interesting to me because I I Gina Beavers: Yes. Timoteo: personally in my art practice get so much from reading, writing, research, talking with scholars, Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: doing, you know, different kind of working in different ideas. And so the the Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: thought of going to a residency with you know all these different kinds of people is that's very thrilling. Gina Beavers: It's incredible. And the one writer, Ian Becker, writes short stories about tech or or these fictional stories that sort of start with these tech characters. But then the playwright, Christopher Shin, is also writing a play sort of, you know, with an Elon charac like trying to understand where their perspective, like where they're coming from. so like, you know, for me in this space of like social media and Instagram with my work and and talking to them, it's been really, really fun and Chris was the one that was taught we were talking about critics because I was like, I have this podcast and we talk about criticism. And he was saying playwrights, he's like, if you write plays, if you produce plays, like those critics for theater like in New York, 30% of the time they're giving you a positive review. The other wait, what is that 70%? Sorry, had to do the math really quickly. The other seventy percent of the time it's negative. And he's like, they're extremely harsh. They're known for being the harshest. And he was like, it's interesting to him. He's constantly thinking about why that could be. And he's like, I think people feel in a theater trapped. They're in there, they gave they've given their time, they're sitting there for two or three hours. Yes, Timoteo: it's being imposed upon them. Gina Beavers: you're in this space with them, and you, you know, have these very human reactions and you feel like this is this is the way I feel, you know, just like you own it kind of like anyway, I thought that was interesting. That there is a yeah. Timoteo: I never thought that is a that is a real difference. I definitely feel like I judge theater myself harsher than I probably do art. And it and it probably is for that reason that you go to the Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: theater and it and and that production is being imposed upon you. You are stuck there. So you have to be facing it for an hour and a half really full frontal. Whereas with art or painting, Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: you go to the show, you could leave in one minute. Gina Beavers: Right, totally, totally. So maybe there you feel even a little bit guilty, maybe I didn't g quite give it everything I could have if I wear a theater, you're like, I gave it everything I had, and this is what I thought, you know, like I was in its space, but I thought that was interesting. yeah, so That's a really great and I was like, how could you recreate these dinners? And I think someone like Glenn Furman Flag Foundation, I think he does dinners like this where he collects and that's the kind of person who ha who can actually rally people like that because a lot of us are creative and busy in multiple jobs perhaps or gigs or To get a bunch of people to want to come to a dinner like that just for the sake of talking about ideas Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: is hard. Like if you or I decided like we want to get together people from all these, yeah. Timoteo: Many years ago, nine now it was about nine years ago, a woman I went to grad school with named Brooke Croman. She was living in Brooklyn Heights, no Chicaba Hill, and she decided that she missed like having intellectual discourse with people. And so she Gina Beavers: Mm, mm. Timoteo: started this once-a-month Sunday sort of dessert drinks group. Where we had a a a theme that we had to think about for the whole month. Like some kind of, it was either like Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. cool. Timoteo: a a film we had to watch or an essay we had to read or a topic we had to, you know, think about. And then we would come together once a month. It was like on a Sunday evening, and for about two hours we would discuss that topic or that movie or that idea. And Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: it was great because it was She invited maybe 10 people, and they were all different w walks of life and ages. You know, everyone was has was intellectual in some capacity, but there was like someone who was a scientist, someone who was a fashion designer, someone who is a writer, someone, you know, some older people, some much younger people. Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: And it was such a exciting thing because Of all that interdisciplinary cross-age group Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: about talking about ideas. And what really put the end to it, I think, was COVID actually. and it was sad because Gina Beavers: sad, yeah. Timoteo: then then everyone got dispersed and it and it never came about. Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: But I remember thinking like, this is what I want to be doing. Like I wanna be like it Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Timoteo: with a group of people discussing ideas and you know, thoughts about different far ranging topics and Yes, I wish that we all could do that more, but invite us if you want us to come to it. Gina Beavers: Yeah, I love it. I love it. I know, I know totally. I I know, totally if you're having a cool well and also great reason to apply to residencies like this where you have dinner, Timoteo: Totally. Gina Beavers: we have dinner sort of it's not like mandated, but it is encouraged to have dinner together like Sunday through Wednesday. And you we kind of sit with different pe you know, we sit at a big table but we move around every night and chat with different people and yeah, it's it's a really big part of it. Timoteo: I love that. Boy, that vibe sounds so different than what was going on in Paris during Art Basel. Did you pay any attention to that? Gina Beavers: God. I saw I saw that it got cancel or it s ended early and yeah, yeah. Would come in and Yeah. Timoteo: Yeah. Cause they were afraid that that the rioters were gonna come in and steal the art. God forbid, as if the art isn't for the people, right? that's what made me laugh about it. here's Art Basel being afraid of the people. because I feel like in they'd like to think though that, art is for the people, but no, this really proves that art is for the rich elite, which is why they would Gina Beavers: Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Timoteo: want to close up shop before the rioters could be like, wait a minute, let's burn this place down. Gina Beavers: Before it actually Yeah, yeah. my gosh, yeah. Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: So that was the deal that it was actually like like threatening, in terms of the street protest. Timoteo: Yeah, I think I think I think that they that they shut down Art Basel Paris early because they Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Timoteo: were afraid that the that the last two days of the art fair there were gonna be huge protests outside and that perhaps the protesters would Gina Beavers: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: be like, let's go destroy this elitist art fair of like million dollar works of art which in a way they probably would have if they caught wind of it. Gina Beavers: Right, right. Right, right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. But w but what about all the artists like our people we know who had work there? I mean it's like, Timoteo: Yeah. Yeah. Well that's the great irony of it, is that, Gina Beavers: yeah. Just trying to make a living. It's a it's a fragile ecosystem, but yeah. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: Exactly. But what I have this idea though that I'm gonna float out there and I feel like Art Basel should listen, is that I do think that those fairs should be Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: like the old salons of days of yore where the people Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: are invited to go to them. And so Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: I feel like the fair, because the fairs run like, you know, six days or Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: something. And the first, two or three days is all VIP, special collectors, Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: blah, blah, blah. I feel like the last two days of the fair should either be free admission or like $5. And so, like, anyone can come, like any like school kids, families, like, you know, whoever. And then that would make, Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, something. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Timoteo: you know, get like all the fancy people can buy the artwork and see the artwork privately for. Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: days before, but then in the last few days, like let the people in. Like let people see what's really contemporary art. Like what's really not what's being shown in museums, but like what's really Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: being made by people like you or me or whoever, you know, like in the contemporary Gina Beavers: Mm, mm. Timoteo: art world. And why not? Why why make it like $50 admission that no one can really go to I don't know. I'm making that number up, but it's a shit ton of money. It's more than I ever want to pay. Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Is it fifty dollars? Is it? okay. Yeah. I feel like twenty yeah, like twenty dollars is fine. People can also no, has to be five dollars. Yeah. Timoteo: No, five dot nope, five do I think it should be five dollars or free or free. I mean free is r it may be asking too much, but five dollars, like I think of how amazing that would be if like all of a sudden twenty-five thousand people could have easy access to like looking at your Gina Beavers: Yeah, it's true. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: work that you made. You know, because so many people make work for these art fairs that very few people end up really seeing or never gets really Gina Beavers: Yeah, it's true. Timoteo: out into the public in any way and Gina Beavers: Yeah, that's true. No, it's hard to argue with that. And I I went to high school in DC where all the museums are free, 'cause all the National Gallery, all those are free to the public as an idea of democracy and, enabling but then at the same time the little c devil on my shoulder is like also would it be terrible if people paid twenty dollars in the grand scheme of like of But it could be a sliding scale. But there's definitely, what we're just gonna make i in the current world we live in, it feels like this constant devaluing of everything that we do too, to say it's free, it's free. You can get it you can go online and just see people's work and then you know, it's just all this constant like barrage. Timoteo: Okay, yeah, not for free, but at least affordable. Yeah. Gina Beavers: Oversaturation of maybe free for some people, yeah, but I just sometimes I'm also like, would it kill you to pay a little bit? Yeah, yeah. But I guess people Timoteo: No, in theory it wouldn't. you go to a movie and you pay twenty dollars for an hour and a half or two hours worth of entertainment. Gina Beavers: would say people aren't doing that either. Like they're not they're not going Timoteo: Sure. Gina Beavers: to movies the way they used to, or Timoteo: Well, because I I would argue that movies are too much. I I don't go to the movies 'cause I don't wanna pay. To go to the movies in New York City it you know, it costs Gina Beavers: Do you think yeah, 'cause you think it's yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: thirty, forty dollars, you know, all said and done. Yeah. Gina Beavers: my god, yeah, yeah. For two people. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. We're getting into this sticky situ yeah. So yeah. Timoteo: Anyway, it's just I it was funny to watch, Paris is burning for real, and Gina Beavers: Right. Timoteo: to see like the different opinions that art world people had. Some were like, who cares? You know, don't don't worry about it. Other people were making political statements. But I always thought it was funny Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Have on the yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: too when people would be making these sort of pro-proletariat kind statements. Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: But then also be the people who are exhibiting or working at the most exclusive event maybe in the world. and it's like how how you c how can you have your cake and eat it Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, but Timoteo: too is the larger question. Gina Beavers: Yeah, but it's like have you ever it's a trade fair. as somebody who worked the gift fair in New York or worked the food fair, it's a trade fair. So a lot of the people at those fairs are just very middle class, like, you know, like you may have a gallery and you may sell work, but the people actually manning the fair or the people making the work, there are a lot of people involved who are not, you know. Not the top not blue chip. It's like, you know, these are people who like, you know. No, Timoteo: Well, speaking of though okay. Gina Beavers: I mean I would just say, but I would also say take the like the the ferry or whatever the boat is. I've lost all my words, along the Seine where you can go and see, you know, it's like the Paris boat tour or whatever, Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: and look at the gilded opera house roof and you're like Yeah, this is why the French Revolution happened. you you can only do this for so long. You can only concentrate the wealth for so long in certain, without people being like, fuck you, And we're all and the entire Timoteo: Well that's what people are worried about, exactly. Gina Beavers: Western and it's not just the art world is the smallest version of that. I mean, it's not a huge economy compared to all of the other, bigger but as a global like in the West, it's like questions we really have to you can only concentrate the wealth for so long. And it's only gotten worse, you know, so yeah. Timoteo: Well, something that is a bright spot in terms of passing the pot around was the other day I was invited to the inaugural announcement reception for the Kahn Kerwin Foundation. Do you know what that is? Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. No. Timoteo: So you know that Scott Kahn is a painter who has a show at David Zwerner right now. So Scott Gina Beavers: Yes, yes. Timoteo: Kahn is a very interesting painter who's An older gentleman now, and he painted in total obscurity for basically his entire life. And it wasn't until I feel like he was sort of like slowly discovered. And you know, I it's it's a it's a story you can read about, but he has recently come into vogue. Like people, you know, David Zwirner is giv's given him this big show and you know, now he's, selling at a blue chip gallery and he's obviously making plenty of money, but after spending forty-five years as an artist living in in like dire poverty, you know, really like Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: very difficult life situation. So he has taken his newfound success and fame and fortune and started a foundation with his life partner to support under vi Represented older artists with with funds. So it's like he Gina Beavers: it's wonderful. Yeah. Timoteo: and so they're doing two things. They're they've started a residency program in Italy that they found Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: a wonderful family that's donated a little villa that they they have a they're starting a new residency program for all kinds of different artists and poets. And but they also are establishing a emergency fund type of grant. So if you're an older artist and you need your teeth worked on or, something or a hospital thing Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: that you can apply for this kind of emergency grant. Because he was saying how he didn't have that opportunity and went Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: through many emergencies where he was even, Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: you know, more sort of impoverished. And so I j like he was just talking about how important it is to be able to now give back to people who might really need those kinds of f support. Gina Beavers: That's wonderful. That's really wonderful. And what is the name again? The okay, cool. Everybody should look that up. Yeah. Mm-hmm. yeah. Timoteo: It's called the Kahn Kirwin Foundation. And it was cool. It's like a little, little reception they had. I met Dana Schutz for the first time. I've, whose work I've known forever. And she loves your work, Gina. Cause I told when I when I met her, I said she was like, well, what do you do? I said, I'm an artist. And I Gina Beavers: that's sweet. Yeah. Timoteo: do this podcast with Gina Beavers. She's like, my God, I love Gina. Love Gina's work. And she was very excited about her podcast. She at least told Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: me that she was, she had been looking for an art podcast that she wanted to listen to and so hopefully Dana Schutz will be one of our listeners. I have no way to contact her, but if she listens, you know, thank you. Yeah, she's great. Yeah. Gina Beavers: that's sweet. Yeah. Wow. So cool. That's awesome. That's so cool. Well what a brilliant idea. Like, you know, just to to yeah, everything you said, to turn around your success and try to help up people who've been through what you've been through, you know, try to make it better. for other artists. That's it's great. That's really inspiring. Timoteo: Yeah. I I always said to I said to Corey that if I ever became like, you know, all of a sudden this wealthy artist who had way more money than I knew what to do with, what I Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: would do is I would just buy a shit ton of younger artist work. Like I would definitely be one of those artists who goes to every small gallery and spends like, you know, $10,000, $15,000 at like Gina Beavers: yeah, just support, yeah. Right, right, right, right, right. Timoteo: all these small galleries because that the difference that that can make is so Gina Beavers: Yeah. That that makes. Timoteo: So huge, so big. Yeah. Gina Beavers: It's so big. So so big. And so in fact, what you're saying, because I was thinking about this actually. Like if you were a collector, a young collector, or somebody who just got into the collecting world in the last 10 years, say, wouldn't you be completely overwhelmed with like it's one thing for us to say that we would go and collect because we have the mindset of artists and we're in the We're deep deeply embedded in in all these communities and we know the gallerists and we know the artists and we know who you know, we have a sense of like the scene. But if you were to start collecting and without any of that, where would you begin? And how would you like this this is one of my theories is that people are completely overwhelmed, particularly once they go to like Instagram or a social media platform and they're just inundated. with the number of artists, the number of shows, like how to differentiate, how to get your toe in, how to and in a way I kind of think it's like too much art. And it's kind of shutting like people are just kind of like and also too equalized. Like I don't know what's good or what's not good or who's serious or who's not serious because this platform just it sort of draws a line across everyone. Yeah. Timoteo: that's why people hire art advisors. Like I Gina Beavers: I know, but that doesn't seem also no disrespect to art advisors, but I just don't know how you would yeah, I I Timoteo: that's how you do it. I feel like you would have i other than I would also recommend that you would follow Alex Feim on Instagram or follow her Substack because she Gina Beavers: Mm, mhm, mhm. Timoteo: posts about what's going on in art but from sort of all these different levels but she really clarifies it really well. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: but outside of doing your own research and following your own people I feel like you that's that's why art advisors exist now more than ever is because how else would you know? Gina Beavers: Right, or I guess no, it's true. And and maybe you have to take a class or you have to like take classes in art history or I don't know, or but I'm just saying that that part of this downturn that we're that we've been feeling I blame the platforms, I blame the equalizing, I blame the quantity of art. It's like completely overwhelming. And if you're trying to understand a narrative, like we're all complaining from the other side. Like Josh Kline is saying, like, hey, there, I'm not getting sort of the art historical contextualization that I would like considering how much I've done. And we're all complaining from that's this side, but as a collector, how would you know where the trends are or where to it's incredibly daunting. And I think that like it's not only that we have so much art and so little sort of historification for collectors, but we also have these platforms that just like completely overrun with content. so maybe these things are depressing like the enthusiasm for collecting because it's like too much. It's just too much and too too. Timoteo: Yeah. Well I've also heard too from collectors that the minute they start showing interest in a gallery, it's like death by PDF. they just get like inundated by like, you know, every art Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, just like yeah, yeah. Timoteo: basel, every Nada, every season there's Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: like inundated with like thousands of PDFs that are like, Look at all this art, look at all this art, look at all this art. yeah, I don't know. I mean, don't know. Like I'm I Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. This is like yeah. Timoteo: feel like you just have to dive in and do your own research or find artists that you Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: like and then follow and then ask them. I've definitely had people in my life experience Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: who approached me and said, you know, Tim, like, you know, I know you're an artist, you're in the New York City art world. Like I'm I'm interested in the art world. Like what what are some galleries I should look at or I want to buy something? Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: You know, and so I've, you know, I've told them like, do they go here, go look at this, talk to this person. You know, I feel like You find your way into it by just beginning somewhere and then it starts to branch out. Gina Beavers: Right. And then having to actually you have to follow the life of an artist in a way. You have to get in on the ground level and then make your network as you make it, But yeah, I don't know. I guess I was just looking for broader trends that that could be affecting this like sea change in the way that people collect art. You know, it's like but also I saw Francesco Bonami had posted that video where he was he went to the Venice Biennale and he was like, It's too much. There's too much art. It's too much. It's too overwhelming. It's too, you know, like it's almost this like algorithmically expanding quantity of where you just like a human being cannot absorb, you know. Timoteo: Well what's amazing is is with the total depression of the art market for most people, you think that would wean out a lot of artists who were kind of only in it because they thought it was some kind of get rich quick scheme, but it doesn't seem to be doing that. I don't feel like Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: there's like fewer artists all of a sudden than there were like, you know, five years ago or something. Gina Beavers: Mm, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: I think because nobody gives a fuck, maybe. Nobody really cares. Gina Beavers: Yeah, the artists don't artists are already signed up for like this is gonna be hard and I just have to persevere. I Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: But then I love the so the other day I went Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: to Sarah Greenberger Rafferty's talk Gina Beavers: yeah. Timoteo: at the Penumbra Foundation. Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: And I really admire Sarah because, first of all, she's really not in social media. What she does is she has an email that she sends out every couple of months. And it's a wonderful email. It's like what she's been thinking about, what she's doing, Gina Beavers: Hmm. Timoteo: something that's coming up, something that happened. maybe new work in the studio. And Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: you have to, you know, sign up for you have to know kind of who she is or whatever. But I love the I always actually look forward to getting these emails from her because it's allows me to take like, you know, 10 minutes and sit down and read this email and sort of dive into what she's doing. So I knew about this talk she was giving, the Penumbra Foundation. So I went to that and it was so delightful to sit there. And she gave her presentation In spoken word format. it was this Gen X, the 90s, very coffeehouse style delivery Gina Beavers: cool. I love it. Timoteo: of her work of the past, you know, 15-20 years. And it was so charming to kind of have a slow read with such amazingly deadpan funny work. Like her her sense of humor is so Beautifully flat and so incisive. And I also just admire her as a conceptual artist who makes objects, but also Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: as someone who has been a long time faculty member. She was a professor at Hampshire, then she went to chair the MFA program at Pratt and photography. Now she's like Grand Poobah chair of like the Hunter College Art Department. And I just also admire her ability to be both artist and pedagogue, and also artist and administrator, artist and teacher. there's I I just really admire her. and I just want to give her a shout-out because she does so much and seems to do it all so well and with grace that she's an inspiration, she's one of my like biggest inspirations. So Gina Beavers: So true, so true. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: That's refreshing to see to see Sarah Groomberger Rafferty at work. Gina Beavers: That's awesome. Totally, totally. That's wonderful. So true. So so deserved. And so many great shows over the years, I think at Rachel Rachel Effner that Timoteo: Uh-huh. Gina Beavers: I've seen and just yeah, she's really fantastic. Timoteo: But speaking of her whole milieu though of inspirational people, I also the other day went to Derek Eller Gallery for two really great openings, one of E.J. Hauser New Paintings and David Kennedy Cutler. And David Gina Beavers: EJ. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: Kennedy Cutler had a bunch of new paintingslash sculptural works. And and David is part of like, you know, whole group of people from like RISD and you know. Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm. Timoteo: Ruby Sky Styler and Sarah Goomber Rafferty, a lot of these artists of that era. So they were all there at the opening, which was fun. but yeah, E.J. Hauser's paintings are so great because they have such a touch, such a stylistic Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: touch of the way they make brush marks, that I I really admire that you can see someone's brush mark and know who did it. Like that's such a great. visual language that E.J. Hauser has. Gina Beavers: Hm. This one. Yeah. Timoteo: And of course David Kennedy Cutler, his works are just so bonkers because they're like painting, sculpture, they're like print media. You don't know what you're looking at. You don't know if you're looking Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: at like a printed image, a painted image, a sculptural image. They have all these Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: layers on them. He went bonkers with like pre flowers on top of flowers on top of flowers, which, I'm a little over flowers though. I don't know. I'm sorry that you're doing No, I I can go on I actually have a whole other podcast episode about like how I'm anti anti-flowers. Yeah, well, because I feel like there's I feel like we've been seeing a lot of flowers and I feel like it's a Gina Beavers: Yeah. really? really? No. Just kidding. Anti flowers. I I hate flowers. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: It's a reaction to no one wants difficult work, so let me just make flowers because I gotta sell something and so people will buy flowers and so Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: I feel like I'm a little over like a lot of flowers. Sorry to anyone who's doing Gina Beavers: Okay. Timoteo: flowers. Flowers are beautiful, but Gina Beavers: No, no, no, no, no, no. And also, counterpoint, I had these Gen Z's in my studio yesterday Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: who I was totally vibing with, which I was like, look at me getting along with like much younger artists. Like, but they were like, maybe it's literally like go outside and touch grass. Like, maybe that's what that the flower represents in a very digital, like saturated world. Is like people are just literally the most simple version of going outside and being like, my God, it's beautiful. Beautiful. Timoteo: Yeah. But for instance, somebody posted to Instagram a Jordan Casteel painting from Art Basel that was just a bunch of flowers. And their Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Timoteo: comment was, Is this really what Jordan Casteel is painting these days? in the idea that Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah. shit. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: yeah, that's a painting that is meant to pay the bills. We get it. and Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: And I get it. I get I'm I'm I know I'm being a little overly harsh ab about that kind of thing, but Gina Beavers: No, no, do you think we're gonna actually fucking in the end, we're just gonna kill the painted flower. Like Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: the art artists are just we're gonna be so over it, it'll be like we Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: never wanna see a goddamn flower. Of cour of course I'm s I'm pa painting them as we speak in all these Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: different upholsteries. But that is what it is. This was it is what it is. Mediated, yeah, yeah. But Timoteo: But there but yeah, yours are on upholsteries though, so already you're working with a media yeah, but you're working with a mediated flower. You're not you're not w you're not just painting like a beautiful Lou Fratino big bouquet of flowers, Gina Beavers: yeah. But also I have to say these people that are painting the flowers, Lou Fratino Jordan Casteel, I don't know that he paints flowers, but I know Hugh Hayden has an incredible garden. They all have incredible, they're actually out in the flowers, like making, you know, making things grow too, which I I find like Timoteo: Sure. Gina Beavers: amazing. And you do you do that? You you make flowers grow, right? Or yes. Timoteo: my God, in my own gardens I have thou I have two acres of rambling gardens, yes. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Of right. I mean, still really admire that people can do that because I can't I feel like I still can't do that. But but yeah, I guess so they're doing that in real life and then it's coming into the work. So it's incredibly authentic. This like incredibly authentic kind of delivery f from one to the other. But the Gen X no, I Timoteo: I'm sure that's true. I'm just making a blanket statement. Gina Beavers: know, and the Gen X in us will not allow that. Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: I I get that. 'Cause Timoteo: Gina, the Gen X in me is like it when the going gets tough, the tough get going. Meaning if the art market is is bad, I'm gonna make the most difficult work I can make right now because I'm like, This is the time to do it because fuck you. Like, you know, nobody cares exactly. So like that's why Gina Beavers: Yeah. Right, right, right. Nobody cares. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I just Timoteo: I get annoyed when I see someone making big bouquet of flowers. I'm like, yeah, yeah, you need to sell work, fine. Like I get it, you know. Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, you're reading it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You get it. But I the with for me, it's like I can't have one authentic emotion. That's like the I can't have one authentic feeling. It's like it's like I can't access that authenticity. Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: I can only do it in mediated forms. Like I can only see myself through commercial. I know, but it's like but it's like Timoteo: But that's what I admire about your work is it's so mediated through commercial forms. You're not just like, ooh, look at this pretty flower. Gina Beavers: But I'm just like a husk. I'm just a husk of a husk. Timoteo: Your flowers are Gina Beavers: These other people are real people. They're real people who can access their real emotion. No, I know, but it's also like Timoteo: I guess that's why this the cynic in me is like, screw that shit, Gina Beavers: it's it's It's people who truly are communicating that, but then also people are truly buying into that idea of selfhood. Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: You know, like I really believe that that's your true self on that canvas and that, you know. No, no, and I'm I'm but I'm right there with you. I'm just on another Timoteo: Yeah. I'm just Gina, I'm just being ornery about it, you know. It's fine. Gina Beavers: side of the coin, but I agree. I'm not, you know, I get it, I get it. Timoteo: but it br it brings me back to something I saw recently, to bring up an old hobgoblin is Patty Johnson. So she I saw some she posted something to Instagram the other day that was like, news flash, nobody cares. She's like, you she's like you she's like she's like, you did this show somewhere, y you're Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: embarrassed about it. You know what? Nobody cares. Like you Gina Beavers: Ha ha. Timoteo: you you taught at this school that it's shitty, like guess what? Nobody cares. Gina Beavers: cares. Timoteo: you painted flowers that are basel, nobody cares. and she went down this list Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: of like how actually, like, in a way, like no b Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: like like you were saying, there's so much noise out there, there's so much stuff going, there's so much art that no one can keep up with anything that like, you know what, yeah, Gina Beavers: Yeah, it's so true. So true. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: someone might make this d dumb painting of flowers because they need to sell it, but you know what? Nobody Gina Beavers: Nobody cares. Timoteo: cares. Like Gina Beavers: And also I would say at a certain point in your career, it doesn't matter. you like w with Timoteo: Yeah. It doesn't matter, exactly. Gina Beavers: a certain point of success, does it really matter? Like I just remember thinking that about like Damien Hirst Like he could come out here and take a fresh dump on it on nobody. It would not, it Timoteo: And put it and put it in formaldehyde and somebody would want it. Gina Beavers: would not matter. Like like to his, you know, I think at a certain level of success, you can you have the mistakes you could even though I think those artists think they can't make any mistakes and they're extremely stressed probably. I really think they have great leeway. But that kind of brings up one of the questions you had posted, do you have questions for us? And somebody had said what about these posts of people leaving their gallery saying I'm leaving or I've left my representation or whatever. And I think that kind of falls under what you're saying. In some ways like it's just another Instagram post that's barely registered. register, but I also think that people are so busy they might if you don't say that you're leaving your gallery, they might never realize like that you've left or depending on, you Timoteo: Yeah, but Gina Beavers: know, like if you're a big name, people will know. But like if you're not if you're emerging or you know yeah. We'll cut we'll cover it. Yeah. Timoteo: Well, if you're a big name and you leave your gallery, Art News might make a story about it. Yeah. But if you're any other person, like no you know, again, nobody care no one will care. Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: But but that's also precisely why I think and I did see that question that somebody had asked us. And my take on that is that whether you like it or not, artists have to be their own PR people these days, Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: unless you can hire a PR person or work with a gallery that has a PR person. So Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: If you leave your gallery and you need people to know that, I think Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: it is incumbent upon you to make a post to your social media to say, guess what? I've left this gallery and it's amicable or whatever Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: or not. But then then other people might say, well, maybe I'll show you now, or maybe it maybe I should buy work from you now because it'll be cheaper, or I Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: don't know. Like I feel like if you don't, then how would anyone know? Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: And then and then people would just forget or think you still show there five years later. You Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: know. Gina Beavers: No, it's true. And I think like the old thing might have been, well, you don't do you wanna come off as, you know, what were the circumstances and how much can you say? And like, are you difficult? Are they difficult? Are they just not selling your work? Like I saw did you see this George Condo went left Hauser for a year and now he's back? Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: at houser. so is it just like a an economy thing that everybody's going through and people are having expectations that are, you know Timoteo: But there's so many artists now, who are Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Timoteo: like Jordan Wolfson and one day they show a Gagoshin, then they show a Zwerner, then they show with Hauser, then they back with Gagoshin, then they're both it's like w they're like baseball players now being traded amongst the big leagues. Yeah. Gina Beavers: Right, right, right, right, right. Right. Yeah, with different That's so true. But it's also like what yeah, was there a show that was offered or an opportunity with a specific collector or did they lure him back or you know, who knows? But I don't a hundred percent, a hundred percent. Yeah. Timoteo: I hate to be this cynical, but it's definitely all money. I'm sure ha Hauser was like, we'll we'll we'll we'll double your prices and we'll guarantee we'll sell it or whatever, I don't know. Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Some kind of deal of yeah, who knows. But but yeah, is it you know when I see a post like that, I just assume it's economics. Like when it's happening now, when I see that people are leaving galleries or jumping galleries or moving around, I assume it's dissatisfaction with things that are happening or you know, so yeah. Timoteo: Think it's always economics though. I definitely have known people who've left galleries who were selling work there. They just felt Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm. Timoteo: either somehow disrespected by the gallery or or under or undervalued for their value, or you know, like I think that there's myriad reasons why people do that. But but I Gina Beavers: yeah. Well that's a good reason to leave. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Timoteo: but the question, the initial question was like announcing it. Like, is it like what's with like Gina Beavers: Well yeah, and there's the whole Instagram post of it all where it's like Ugh, I don't know. I'm I'm sorry to compare everything to like George Bush or s or something. But like the you know, like mission accomplished, you know, it's like Timoteo: All right. Gina Beavers: it's like everything has to be couched in the most successful terms. Like I saw I was laughing at a couple gallery closing well, they weren't closing or they were closing outposts and it was it was like the one gallery was closing their sentimental outpost, you know, as though they're still They still have their main, you know, their main locations, but they closed a smaller location just because it was sentimental. It was like, was too bad Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: to see it go, but it was always sentimental. We always kept it open for sentimental reasons. So it's like this: you seriously hire art world people to spin negative things in a positive way. Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: It's like like very Bush administration, like we're putting such a beautiful face on this. And there as someone else, another gallery closed. Was like we're going back to our main flagship to reinvest in our flagship location, and you know, which Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: is like you know, people are trying to pay the bills, people are trying to keep the lights on and like have to spin things in the best way. But there is a specific kind of wording like on social media when artists do it, where it's like you can never show true weakness, it's always Instagram won't allow it. Like the filter of Instagram is always showing off, like you're always showing. off so even if you're like at your worst it spins it in this way that Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: is like the best of humanity you know it just there is something grating about the ways that we like express ourselves on on that platform Timoteo: Well, I decided probably four or five years ago to never show on social media my works in progress or works before they're exhibited. Now why? So I decided Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm. Yeah. Mm hmm. Timoteo: that because I feel like whene whenever I do have a show, I you know, whenever that is or Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: will be or would be or whatever, I want Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: those images to be like a surprise. Gina Beavers: Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Timoteo: To people. I don't want people to think I've already seen that. I've already seen those images. I've already seen those paintings. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Right, right, right, right. Right. Timoteo: I want the when I have that show and I announce that show, I want that to be the first time that you see that work at all. Gina Beavers: Mm, mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: and so I stopped, you will not see me post things that are Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: like I like I might post okay, I might post a little snippet of a side of something to give you like a little Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: A little taste, you know, but a teaser, Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. A little teaser. Yeah. Timoteo: but I'm but I'm not gonna do a video of like showing how I'm making it, or I'm not gonna do Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: a full image of it, or you know, and that's just my own personal philosophy now of Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: social media is that I wanna I wanna retain a little bit of surprise for like my sh exhibition, you know. And so but that's part of being in my own PR agent, you know, is like is coming up with my own kind of strategy Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Timoteo: of like not Flooding, you know, I'll post a ton of old stuff. Like I think it's fine to post an image of a work you did five years ago, ten years ago, you know, like I'll do that up the old fucking wazoo. you know, which I think is fine. I think it's fine to do that. Gina Beavers: Right, right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right, right, right, right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But Tim, yeah, I think I think if you want like a huge following though, you gotta get those brand deals with Dior and all those like you you gotta be posing in the latest fashions. Timoteo: I'd rather Gina Beavers: On the red carpet. Right. Timoteo: do that through an air of mystery. Gina Beavers: On the red carpet somewhere. Don't you feel like that's the I mean we're all like out here like talking about our Instagrams like in a way that's kind of like with one foot on the ground or grounded Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: in this way. But I think the those kind of accounts that go crazy and become almost like art world influencers, like artists that are so big that they are just they themselves are like so photogenic and they're out there and they're like wearing insanely fashionable clothes. And like that's the true like those are the people that have cornered the market on like how to operate on social media. Timoteo: Sure. I opportunity, my Instagram has 4,000 followers. I I have Gina Beavers: No, no, Timoteo: and I and I can't get beyond that because I lose as many followers as I gain because the shit I post is so Gina Beavers: Yeah. I know, I know, I know, I know. Yeah. Timoteo: like every time I post something in Italian or like of Italian news or Italian band or something, I lose followers like right away. Like Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I but it's so you, Tim. I love it. It's like so specifically the memes that you make, the things that you do are so you. It's so lovable and it's it's just great. And it's like but it's also like Timoteo: I know but I realize that that can't reach over four thousand people. it physically can't Gina Beavers: It can't. there's no hacking this. I don't know, I guess at a certain point the follower a hundred thousand followers, a hundred and fifty, two hundred, you know, like that really does tr Timoteo: Yeah. I don't know how people get to that. I don't like I I'm actually a very regular poster. I probably post more than most people I know and original stuff, like, you know, but I lose followers like all the time. Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It has nothing to do with, yeah, yeah. But you have to be, I guess you're like an anti-influencer. Whatever an anti, you're a de-influencer. I don't know. Timoteo: I that's I am a D influencer. My posts are so obscure. They're so weird. They're so like yeah. Gina Beavers: It's actually actual human beings on there because I Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: do know that there's pressure. Somebody was telling me that somebody had, who was it that was telling me their friend had like a huge TikTok where they would post comedy every day, like comic bits, and it became such an unbelievable stress and such an unbelievable like albatross around their neck of having to post every day the thing that that they left the platform completely and they're now a therapist. So it's like, you know Timoteo: To admit though that that I probably I I can say with great sincerity that I actually Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: enjoy my social media presence. Like I for me it's fun. Like I like I don't have any Gina Beavers: Yeah. I love your social yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Timoteo: like I enjoy posting weird stuff. Like I enjoy interacting Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: with people on there. Like I I I Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: I feel like I have found a very sweet little spot on Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: social media that I really quite enjoy it at ha but yes, I could Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: ima if I had hundreds of thousands of people and felt like I had to do that as my job, I'd be like, fuck that Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: shit. Gina Beavers: No, and I think that it's it's a combination like the people that I know that have done it, it's a combination of just being really out there, being alm very social, almost like on the verge of a model or an actor or something more present Timoteo: Show Gina Beavers: in that way. or having connections to really famous people. Like if you have friends that are extremely famous and you're so cynical. But I do think that that then translates into certain kind of art world. Buzz to even get your Timoteo: Sure. Gina Beavers: followers over a certain amount, people just start to recognize, you know, at a certain point. But whatever. I who knows? That's like a total mystery. As I've gotten older, I just forget to post. As I've been here, I've just we were just talking last night about how we barely go on social media while we're here, which is good. I mean, because we're in the middle of nowhere. So why would you, you know, if you can't do it here, you can't do it anywhere. Timoteo: I know so but I was I was also I was also telling Corey the other day that I feel like since you've been at the Headlands I've like lost my best friend. I felt like I felt like you and I texted like all day. You and I were like in conversation all day every day and Gina Beavers: no. no. I'm in a cult. I'm in a cult. I'm so sorry. Timoteo: then all of a you go to the headlands and I hear from you once a week. It's fine. Gina Beavers: I'm so sorry. my god. I'm so sorry. It's it's defin it's like I've joined a cult. Do you feel like you've lost me to a cult? Timoteo: Yeah. I feel like I've lost you to and I and if and if you were gonna be staying out there, I would definitely get the cult busters to come and get you. Gina Beavers: my my God. Well we have to I'm sorry about the texting too. It's like it I don't know, it's just like it's definitely feels like dedicated work time, but also we should just talk on the phone. We should just like, you know, if we can. No, I know totally. And Timoteo: Sure. But then we don't want to give away the good stuff. Gina Beavers: also it's tricky because I share airtime with you know, like I share the studio here with Yum Ming Timoteo: Sure, yeah. Gina Beavers: and the reception's not so great. So it's like it's a whole thing, but Timoteo: I wanted to ask you before we start to wrap it up, Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: did you ever know or have any kind of relationship with Peter Naji of Nature Morta Gallery? Gina Beavers: no, no, but I saw yeah, I saw that he passed away. Did you know, Peter? Were you yeah, yeah. Timoteo: I didn't, and I and it's always was a regret of mine because I knew about the Nature Mort gallery Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: f from there's lots of wonderful shows. just last year at at Erelic Steinberg in Los Angeles, there was like a Nature Morta show of like all the artists who had shown there. And you know, I was always so fascinated with it and I knew Peter Najee is a really interesting artist because he his a lot of his work shared some sympathies with mine, just historical Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: imagery, archive imagery, paint the way he did paintings. And so I was always fascinated, but I know I never knew him and I never, you know, I was not like in his orbit and I kind Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: of am sad that I never was, but but I was I mean, when he died, like everyone in the art world like posted it like, whoa, he had a big, big influence. Gina Beavers: Yeah. He had a big yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: And so I just wanted to acknowledge that he had actually had an influence on me, but not person like I didn't know him personally, but but Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm. Right, right. Before Timoteo: I always thought that I so for years I showed with Ashes Ashes Gallery. Gina Beavers: Hm, mm. Timoteo: and I always felt like Andy, who did that gallery, had a very similar kind of approach to Nature Morton, in that it was very artist-centric, very strong in its curatorial vision, very sort of conceptually image based Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: minded work and you know, sort of scrappy and intellectual. And so I I I I really admired that kind of way of Gina Beavers: Hmm. Timoteo: showing and working. And so I I wish that I could have shown with Nature Mort when it was in India. I always like Cameroza Ram showed there and I was always like that how did that that's so cool. Like Gina Beavers: Hmm, that's so cool. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Timoteo: but you know, missed opportunity. But I just wanted to take a moment though to shout out Peter Naji in case people didn't know him, you should look up his work and what he did, 'cause he definitely had a very Gina Beavers: Hmm. Yeah. Timoteo: strong legacy. Gina Beavers: That's so cool. Yeah. Well, we can we can either wrap it up or I can go in into something, but what do you think? It's like yeah, what am I doing? So I'm trying Timoteo: Well what's next on the horizon for you? Anything coming up or Gina Beavers: to figure out how I'm gonna get the works back. I'm hoping that some of these works will end up at a fair and like I'm but I have to start. work on this one behind me if I'm gonna just go for it. But then I would have to be very nose to the grindstone and wouldn't it be fun to go hiking every day and enjoy like I know, I know. Timoteo: You gotta find the balance. You have to find the balance, Gina. Gina Beavers: And it's like the the beach here is so incredible. Keith and I went and saw a sunset. One night on the beach it was like earth shatteringly like mind blowingly beautiful. So it's like I might want to do that again. Anyway, so but we are going out in San Francisco a couple times, like so that'll be fun. but yeah that's I'm not thinking very much beyond the next like week you know that's one of the things here it feels like very permanent present like you're very I'm so sad that I've been so out of touch. I'm so sorry to yeah that's sad Timoteo: I think that, you've been that's what you're there for. You're there to work, you're there to get down to business, It's fine. That's why I'm not bothering Gina Beavers: I know, but I do know that it's I do know that it's finite. So Timoteo: you. That's also why I'm not like Gina Beavers: Right, I do I do know that it's finite. So I think in my mind I'm like I could do this for two months, just go off the grid a little bit. But if it was a like, I moved here, I think I would make a lot more of an effort to balance more things. But there is a sense when you're Timoteo: Course. Gina Beavers: in a place like this where we were talking last night about how we have this empty plate. It's just like two things on the plate. And it's like so nice to just have two things on your plate. That's not real life. In fact, it's like it kind of feels like being a kid. Again, you should see my room. I've destroyed my room. It's just like clothes, like everywhere. It looks like a teenager lives there. Like, we I was telling the people that help us, the facilities managers, that they're like our parents. Like, people make food for us, like, you're in all of these dynamics that feel weirdly like being part of a family again, and all these parts of yourself, all these like immature parts of yourself, like re emerge because you feel like a child, and the cool part about it. Timoteo: I Gina Beavers: It Timoteo: love that. Gina Beavers: is childlike wonder. But the weird part about it is you're a grown-ass adult who has no responsibilities and like apparently no, but maybe this is something powerful about cults. Maybe this is how cults operate. That like you cut yourself off, you you enter sort of a childlike state, you know, and you try to re-yeah, Timoteo: I think that's very true. I think that is very appealing. Gina Beavers: that's kind of like, but I'm not saying that. Timoteo: That did you did you remember that d the Heaven's Gate cult that they all wore the Nike sneakers and died? Because there was a great documentary Gina Beavers: Yes, of course, yes. Timoteo: about it and a lot of people who were able to leave the cult and but then talk about Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: it said that they that everyone who was in the cult loved it because it felt like they were like a child in a family. And they had like they had dinners together, Christmas together, like they sang songs together. It was like Gina Beavers: my God, so crazy. Yes, yes. Totally. Timoteo: It gave them the comfort of being like a young child who had parents who took care of everything. And I get that because, you know, like my life now is so unbelievably Gina Beavers: Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean it's yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: hectic with so much responsibility and caretaking on so many levels. I would love to be like, you know, just singing songs and have somebody do everything for me. Gina Beavers: Totally. Totally. Totally. Yes. Just have a break for bre Well, and it's also like we live in a house. Timoteo: Jesus. Gina Beavers: We live in a historic house, but like today I was like, we're out of paper towels. And then I went to this cabinet. there are more here. Like everything Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: has been thought about. You know, or I see a crack in the plaster and I'm like, guess what? That's not my problem. Like Timoteo: Gina, don't talk to me anymore. I can't Gina Beavers: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I just feel bad that I've like that I've Timoteo: That's too much for me to handle. Gina Beavers: like cut myself off from my previous life. But it is finite. I I will be returning into the into the fold of adulthood. And it'll probably hit me like re-entry from like, you see the astronauts that like land in the ocean, then like they can't walk. Like that will probably be me as I as I Timoteo: Yeah. Or their faces like this 'cause they've been in G Force. Yeah. Gina Beavers: Yes, that's what it's gonna be like for me. the I'm gonna be stressed out and like gravity will reassert itself, you know. but Timoteo: Yeah. Well, this week I'm going to an opening at Story Gallery on Thursday. And Gina Beavers: cool. Yeah. Timoteo: then after that, of course, Marianne Boesky gallery has Michaela Yearwood Dan new paintings and Mary Lovelace O'Neill's new painting. Well not new painting because she's passed away, but they have they're Gina Beavers: cool, yeah. amazing, amazing. That's right. Yeah. Timoteo: showing a a bunch of really great Mary Lovelace O'Neill paintings and she's such a big Bay Area historic. Gina Beavers: Yes, totally. Such a big deal. Totally. Timoteo: Her work is so good, I really recommend people looking up Mary Lovelace O'Neil's work. Gina Beavers: so good. Yes, absolutely. And go to the opening and say hi to Tim. if you've noticed, I'm all the way over at the side now because the sun the Yeah. Timoteo: You're like you're the opposite of a cat. A cat moves with the sun, but you're like moving away from the sun. Gina Beavers: The sun has pursued me into this corner, but also I could come probably over here and be huge. But I I feel like Timoteo: Mm-hmm. Gina Beavers: I I like the view better. You know, Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: I can't have that much light on me. I'm a woman of a certain age. I can't Timoteo: Yes. Gina Beavers: I can't have too much light. Sorry. man. I know we still have we have to save it. Totally. And next and Timoteo: my God. I feel like there's still so much to talk about, but we we should wrap it up because we still have save other things in. Gina Beavers: next week we'll we'll record again in a week because yeah. Timoteo: But I also really hope too that people who are listening and really enjoying us Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: can do us the effort of, you know, liking us or rating Gina Beavers: Yes. Timoteo: us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and also participating. I I love, we love Jean and I both do the Instagram. We love people who Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: comment to us or post about listening because that's how we get more people involved and adding to the conversation. And so p Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Timoteo: I really enjoy those that kind of participation. So I really welcome people to Gina Beavers: And mhm. It's fun. It's really fun. Timoteo: share and and like and repost and keep this going. So I thank you all who do that. Gina Beavers: Totally. Totally, totally. Thank you guys. Thank you for listening and sorry for the gap too. I'm I'm sorry to all the people who listen that Amazing. No, but I love it. Yeah, the gap. The gap. Yeah. Timoteo: Fall into the gap. Do you remember that commercial? That was the gaps commercial. I don't know when that was in the late nineties. Fall into the gap. Gina Beavers: we haven't really gotten over the gap. The gap is still with us. Like the Timoteo: No. Gina Beavers: American Apparel was a version of the gap, I think, right? I mean Timoteo: Yeah. No, the gap is still I still wear gap stuff. I Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Timoteo: still wear gap stuff. Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Okay, Tim. Timoteo: All right. Gina Beavers: Well I miss you and have a great week and yeah, and I'll be back. Okay. Bye. Note Vene. Timoteo: See on the flip side, no to bene. Bye. Gina Beavers: Bye.