Gina Beavers: I the only ghost I've experienced is the ghost of like a military man like possessing me to make my bed every morning. Timoteo: really? Hello, hello, hello. This is Timothy Hall. And welcome to Unstretched East Coast West Coast edition. Gina Beavers: Sorry. Ooh, by coastal. Yeah, I'm like here on what feels like a massive ship in the middle of the ocean. Because the weather is like we're like I'm on a boat. Like it's all fog. Yeah, lots of humidity, like ninety-five percent humidity, but it's California. Figure that out. It's pretty crazy. Thanks. Timoteo: Your hair looks good. Gina Beavers: That's been yeah. I've been ha realized I have to protect it 'cause it's just like mist and fog like all the time. So but Timoteo: Yeah. But I must feel good, different than New Jersey. Gina Beavers: it it's beautiful. I mean the air is so fresh and it's incredible. But it is like kind of trippy because we go through this one lane tunnel and within fifteen minutes we're in San Francisco, like downtown. and that Timoteo: Wait, there's a direct tunnel that just like goes Gina Beavers: No, no, no. Sorry, sorry. No, you go, but you do have to leave the headlands. You have to go through this one-lane tunnel. And then when you merge on the other side, you're like back in civilization, kind of. But it's only like from here to San Francisco is like 15 minutes. Timoteo: That's crazy. Gina Beavers: It's truly, truly crazy. And then you come back through the tunnel and like all of the people disappear. And the nature is practically like prehistoric. Like because there's so few buildings, it's like It it feels a little bit did you ever watch Lost? Like the TV show. It's a little bit like Lost. Timoteo: Yes. Yes me. Gina Beavers: Because it's also a f a military base. It was a military base in the late 1800s. And there are all these like missile launch sites, which actually I was hanging out with my parents yesterday, and they said the Nike missile launch site that's here, that they grew up learning about that in Southern California because that was the missile launch site that was gonna protect them. From nuclear weapons launched from Russia, from nuclear annihilation, the Nike missile site. So they said they both freaked out when they saw the sign 'cause they were like, my god, like, you know, just the f Timoteo: Right, it's like living history. Gina Beavers: yeah, a figment of horror having doing like crouching under their desks in their childhood classrooms, like Timoteo: Well it sounds to me like you're in a giant cathedral or like the hull of a ship. Your s your space must be really big there. Gina Beavers: It's just definitely cathedral. It's a cathedral to my art. Yes. No. No. Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: you can see I set up a little bit back there. I spent an entire day Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: mixing paint that I'm probably not gonna use, so that was good. That worked out well. No. Yeah. Timoteo: You spent an entire day mixing paint that you're probably not going to use. Why did you mix paint and you're not gonna use it? Gina Beavers: I was using like dry pigment and marble dust and I think I need more than just linseed oil. I some need some other fillers, I need to heat some stuff up, I need to do this and that, and I'm just like, I don't know if I have the time to do that here or if I I don't wanna burn down the headlands, you know, like that would suck. Timoteo: So why have you decided to make your own paints in that way versus just buying like gambling or like in a tube or something? What's the strategy Gina Beavers: Because 'cause Timoteo: behind that? Gina Beavers: I wanna use tons of it. So if I can mix my Timoteo: I think. Gina Beavers: own pig dry pigments are a lot cheaper. So if I can figure that out, then I can save myself, you know, I can just have no worries as far as how much paint I use. Timoteo: Okay. Alright, well that makes sense. So it's in a way it's more economical if you're really gonna be making a lot of paint to just mix your own paint because you're cutting Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: out the middleman who had to mix the paint and put it in a tube and Gina Beavers: Totally, totally. Yeah. So but yeah Timoteo: You know, it's crazy that Cezanne bought tubed paint. You'd think like, like Cezanne, he must have been grinding his own paint. But he actually bought tubed paint and the last correspondence he ever wrote, like literally like two days before he died, was to his art supplier. And he's like, Where is my cadmium red? You told me you were gonna get me my cadmium red in time and it's all it's too late because he's good dead. Gina Beavers: my gosh. my gosh. that is crazy. man. Yeah, that is Yeah, then he wouldn't have had to Timoteo: So but if he had just mixed his own paint then he wouldn't have had to wait on the Parisian, you know, paint salesman. Gina Beavers: totally. If he had mixed his own dry pigment cadmiums though, he probably would have died sooner. I'm just gonna say. Timoteo: Ha ha ha ha. Gina Beavers: Yeah. So yeah. I'm just using synthetic Timoteo: Yeah. Well that Gina Beavers: like I'm just using rare earth earth. They're either earth pigments or they're all non toxic. The ones that I was Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: yeah. Timoteo: That's something I love like about oil paint is I think I've mentioned this on the pod too. Like when I teach oil painting, I always impress upon the students the organic sort of earth materiality of the oil paint, which is so which I think is imbues Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: it with something that's more spectacular and like numinal than like acrylic paints. Like I feel like there's something Gina Beavers: Yeah, but we Timoteo: special. Gina Beavers: we talked about this I think before on the pod. It's the same pigments. It's the binder. It's the binder Timoteo: Yeah. Yeah. Where's the binder? Okay. Gina Beavers: that makes the oil paint more, you know, 'cause acrylic is like a Timoteo: But even the binder is natural, the binder is still from the earth. Gina Beavers: It could potentially be, yeah. It could be like well yeah, linseed oil. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Timoteo: It's just earthier. It has an earthier, more like I don't know, like humanistic feel to it to me. Gina Beavers: I mean, acrylic is an adhesive. So Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: it's technically like a glue more than anything else. Yeah. But we're like Timoteo: Well, Gina, have you settled into your new California life there? It's been like a week over a week now, week and a half. Gina Beavers: Yeah, it's no, it's just a we not even a week. Like tonight would be a week. I I Timoteo: like tonight would be Gina Beavers: walked over here in the pitch black with my little lantern. Timoteo: wow. Lantern. Gina Beavers: Yeah, so it's definitely a different life. It's like Timoteo: And you could tell ghost stories by that land. Gina Beavers: yeah, our house is extremely creepy. Like I will take s Timoteo: Is it haunted? Gina Beavers: I will take some pictures of all that we have a secret Timoteo: Ha ha ha. Gina Beavers: staircase. We have like a door under the stairs, like it's pretty sweet. It's pretty, yeah. So Timoteo: Are there ghosts? Gina Beavers: no, I mean I don't I the only ghost I've experienced is the ghost of like a military man like possessing me to make my bed every morning. Timoteo: really? Gina Beavers: The look on your face because this used no Timoteo: They don't wake you up to taps every morning, they don't Gina Beavers: no Yeah, it used to be like barracks and like I've so we're in officer like the former officer's housing. But every day I've gotten up and made my bed, which is something very new. So I think I'm like possessed by some military bi you know. Timoteo: So it is there do you feel like there's like a strange military vibe there though, in that sense that it was like barracks and a sergeant's quarters Gina Beavers: But Timoteo: and like a military kind of installation? I mean you said it's like lost, which I imagine like lost had that kind of feel too. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Well there's like there's the bathroom downstairs has like twenty urinoles lined up and then like twenty sink. You know, it's like it's a a former military bathroom. But like only one of them works. Like, you know. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty like spectacular. Yeah. Timoteo: I'd like to have twenty urinals lined up in my bathroom. Just use a different one all the time. Gina Beavers: It's kind of like an installation. That's kind of great. Timoteo: By the way, Lost does not hold up. Like I remember when Lost came out, it Gina Beavers: Ha ha ha. Timoteo: was kind of like a revelation. It was such a exciting show because it was sort of like almost like a David Lynchian kind of show on like a network television. But it was, you know, very exotic and weird and mysterious. And it was really good, I thought. And I watched it pretty much through the whole thing. But then a few years ago, I was like, let me revisit it. And I tried to watch it again. And I couldn't even get through the first season because I'm like, the storyline Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: is so boring and like the the internal dramas of each person Gina Beavers: Uh-huh. Timoteo: is sort of like not interesting or exciting anymore. And I totally feel like it did not hold up for me. I don't know about for other people. Gina Beavers: It didn't hold up. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a specific time. We had like different you know, you could wow us a lot more easily. Yeah. Timoteo: I think that's what I think. Now it's like this is not holding my imagination. The storylines are not good. Yeah, now there's Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Timoteo: like the more now we have we've had it's almost over now, but we had like Prestige TV, which then like made shows like Lost feel, you know, practically Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: pedestrian. Gina Beavers: Totally. And we had all those shows where it was like the protagonist was d doing something really fucked up, but they also had a normal life. Like the Sopranos or Walter White, what's it? cooking meth because of his health bills, breaking bad, yeah. Yeah. That's pretty great. Yeah. But it was Timoteo: Yeah. breaking bad or whate yeah. I never watched that. Yeah. But it's funny that people s people say that like all even now like prestige T V is over. Like no one watches HBO, no one w is intr you know, like yeah. I I read that recently somewhere that we're in a Gina Beavers: Yeah. Really? Yeah. Timoteo: strange transition period of like, what's next? Where is it all going? Gina Beavers: okay. Yeah. interesting. I mean I still watch like Prestige. Prestige She I still yeah. I'll watch like the White Lotus or like Timoteo: Yeah. I mean I I watch some stuff too and we've discussed it on the show but yeah. But even something like White Lotus now is like it it it now it's just become its own pastiche. It's not even you know, i all that interesting anyway. Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. Did you ever watch Mountainhead? That's by Timoteo: No Gina Beavers: the same people that did Succession. Timoteo: Okay. Gina Beavers: That's a movie about these like dot com dot com. I don't I think dot com is passed, right? We don't say dot com billionaire, right? That sounds really billionaire. That sounds really nineties. Yeah. Dot com. Timoteo: I don't know what we say anymore. Like two thousand. Ooh, dot com billionaire. Gina Beavers: But it's about these like, you know, kinda Elon like figures who go up to this mountain retreat and like r they're basically running the world and but it's written by the succession it's it's pretty great. Yeah. Definitely recommend that. Yeah. Timoteo: Hmm. Don't know it. I feel like I've cycled out of all my T V right now. Like the Project Runway I was watching is over, the Shards is over. okay, I wouldn't tell you, I wouldn't tell you then. Gina Beavers: don't tell me, don't tell me. I'm like behind. Don't tell me. Okay, okay, okay. Timoteo: but I but I I have been telling my students this semester that I I feel like they need to watch Project Runway because it because I wanna talk about critique. I wanna talk about like how we critique stuff because this this Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah. yeah. Timoteo: season is like really hard on critique as as as you and I have discussed, but Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Timoteo: But yeah, so right now I'm not watching any TV. We let go of like Netflix. We let go of some other stuff. And I feel like we're we're actually reading more and we're s kind of cycling out. Yeah, we're sort of cycling out of television, which is fine. Because, you know, I I think Gina Beavers: good for you. What is that? Yeah. Timoteo: I'm thinking back to like my life in like the mid 2000s towards later 2000s. I didn't watch any TV. I never watched any T I'm like a Gina Beavers: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: culture stone of TV from like 2001 or 2000 to like 2014. Like I I have like a 14 year period where I didn't watch any TV. I don't know about anything, Gina Beavers: you didn't watch anything. Wow, wow. Timoteo: other than maybe like Lost. I did watch Lost. but I but I was like totally not Gina Beavers: Okay, you watch last. Timoteo: I was I didn't have any way to watch TV. That was like before you know yeah exactly I didn't have like a TV. Gina Beavers: okay. Yeah. I don't have a T V. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: So I'm kind of trying to remember what life was like in that period of time. I read a lot more, I went out on Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: Which is interesting 'cause I I it's a topic I wanted to raise on the on the pod, but I was thinking of raising it later, but it sort of makes sense. I was thinking about recently how we, especially like people who are older, lived so Gina Beavers: Uh-huh. Timoteo: much of their lives without smartphones and without like the internet in that way. And I think like, what did I do on like a Sunday morning you know, back when you know, before Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: like smartphones or like what did I do like before I went to bed or like what like I was trying to sort of remember back to how did my life feel before I didn't have constant access to like emails, social social media, direct messages, like, you know, comment conversations, like, like what did I have more headspace? Like was I more aw if you know, present? Like I don't know. Like I've been kind of thinking And I'm not saying I'm I'm like on some phase where I want to get like a dumb phone or anything. I love my smartphone. I'm it's Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: it's not a problem for me. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: but I do kind of think back to like, whoa, I have this whole life that would had so much more interiority. I think that's what I've sort of like lost is is a is is this like greater level of interiority that now there's much more exteriority. like life is being lived sort of outside of oneself in a way that it never was before. and I just think of how that affects like my the way I think about things or the way I even make make art or sort of contemplate my life. So that was something I was grappling with. did you just hear that? Gina Beavers: Yeah, what was that? Timoteo: Okay, so note to listeners, my studio is below a black walnut tree and it's very tall and it drops intermittently black walnuts on my roof and it sounds like you're dropping like a ten thousand gallon it is unbelievable. It's like as if you drop as if someone was jumping. Like it's so loud. Yeah. Gina Beavers: Yeah, it kinda sounded like yeah. It sounded like something catastrophic or like someone was building a roof or like hammering into the roof or something. Yeah. Timoteo: Yeah, it's really loud and really disturbing and it and it goes on for like, you know, a month and a half. Creates a total mess. Black Gina Beavers: my gosh. my gosh. That's so crazy. Timoteo: walnut trees cut them down if you if you have the they keep ha it keeps happening. It's very distracting. but they're black walnut trees create such an unbelievable mess, too. They're just Gina Beavers: interesting. my gosh. Timoteo: But you can make ink out of black walnuts. If you take them and you boil them down, they make a really black brown ink. And it's like indelible. Yeah. Gina Beavers: that's so cool. And is that that's a type of wood, black walnut? Like people make Timoteo: Yeah, well, black walnuts also very well sought after wood. So I would love to cut Gina Beavers: okay. Timoteo: down this giant black walnut tree because it creates such an unbelievable mess. My when when my parents first got married and they bought their house, they built a little greenhouse, like a beautiful glass greenhouse. And they built it in the summer. And in the fall, they didn't realize that they had built it under a black walnut tree. And the black walnut tree broke every single window in their greenhouse in like a two-day period. Yeah. From the nuts falling, it shattered each and every piece of glass. And so I grew Gina Beavers: What my gosh from the nuts falling? my god Timoteo: I grew up with this like greenhouse with no windows, like in our backyard. And it was just like a weird, we g my brother and I use it as like a playhouse because and I and I always wondered like, why did we have this like weird playhouse? And I didn't realize until later it was because the black walnut smashed all the windows. Gina Beavers: Because my gosh, wow. That is you you guys have been terrorized over generations by black walnuts falling from trees. Generational. Yeah. Timoteo: yes. Yeah. Gina Beavers: Yeah. So how is the New York art world? What I mean I saw I saw a couple Timoteo: Mrs. Eugenia. You've only been gone a week. Gina Beavers: I saw a couple shows before I left. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: Yeah, you were still here during like the sort of rush of the fall season. But you and I never saw each other. We were like ships that passed in the night 'cause we had different Gina Beavers: The openings, yeah. No, no. Timoteo: agendas, different places to be. Gina Beavers: Different agendas. No, just kidding. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: Yeah. So that Thursday night was like the big Chelsea openings and we couldn't manage to see each other. What did you end up seeing and doing that Thursday night? Gina Beavers: Well, so I missed you because I was so sweaty and hot that I walked up to HM. Like I had I was I tried, Timoteo: And bought a new outfit. Gina Beavers: I tried to buy a new shirt because I had been seeing gallery shows all day and then I was going to openings at night and I was like, I'm pretty sure I just smell like death, you know. I need to so I missed you because I was walking up to HM. in the like that whole you know what I mean, that the Hudson Yards. Timoteo: The Hudson Yards, yeah. Gina Beavers: The soulless like Hudson Yards briefly looked for a new T shirt and then gave up and like came back down. But that's what I did in the middle. Timoteo: You couldn't find a a T shirt at H and you were that picky. Gina Beavers: Well, a t shirt that I liked better. Also, y we're not just talking, you know, it's like a style like nothing is just a t shirt at H and Timoteo: Sure, we had yeah, exactly. Gina Beavers: It's like, do I want, you know, what what look am I giving? A giant Timoteo: Baby tea, a crop top, yeah. Gina Beavers: like square thing with the boobs hanging out and like tight, like, you know, I was just like, no. Yeah, so I missed you, but then I went to Dora Jaridi's show, I went to Anna Park, who's that Luring wait, Lehman Maupin. and you went and then I just got on the well and the Haas brothers too, were at Boskey. I did I went to the after party and like sat and drank wine and w got home really, really late. So but you also got home late. Timoteo: I did. Well I I on that yeah, that Thursday night Gina Beavers: Because we were texting Yeah. Timoteo: was also the opening of Story Gallery on Rivington Street. It was like the Gina Beavers: yeah yeah yeah. Timoteo: like inaugural opening. And so I wanted to go down see that first. So I had to walk down to Rivington to Story Gallery. And that opening was wonderful. Like it's a great group show of like intergenerational. Queer and gay artists and just doing really kind of beautiful conceptual work, drawings, some paintings, some sculpture. It's a very, very cool group show. And then from there I realized, now I have to get down to Bureau to see Willie Coolick's show and Libby Rothfeld show. So then I walked from Rivington down to Bureau. And you know, mind you, that was a really hot day too. So I ha I walked Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: like way downtown. To get to hit up those two shows. And the Bureau show is great. Willie Coolick show is fantastic. Great little observational paintings. The Libby Rothfeld show at Bureau is bonkers. Like she really cranked it up to another level. Like that show's got so much material in it. It's got like photographic based work. It's got painting. It has sculpture. It has like installation, site-specific stuff. Like she really went balls to the wall on that show at Bureau. So that was really cool. but then Gina Beavers: Falls to the wall. Yeah. Timoteo: I had then I had to huff it up to Chelsea. And by that time, you know, it was already like 730 or something. So, you know, and I got it I wanted to go to Boski to see Dorgeriti's show and the Haas Brothers show. And I ended up though at Pablo Bronstein's show at Only Gleason because he invited me Gina Beavers: yeah. Timoteo: to his dinner. Gina Beavers: Mmm. Timoteo: And so that was a real coup because I hadn't seen him in a couple of years. So I got to go to Pablo's dinner. And that was fun because I sat next to Kelty Ferris and we got to talk about, you know, teaching and painting, HE loves the podcast. And it was just super fun. And I met Matt Connors who I'd never met before. He was at the open it at the Gina Beavers: cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Timoteo: after party and Richard Scott of Scott and Co. They were just like a lot of interesting people and so that was super fun. So that's what I did. And that you know, and it just like Gina Beavers: It's awesome. Yeah. Timoteo: drank and ate and talked for hours and yeah, and got home late and then had to, you know, teach the next day. So yeah. Yeah. Real life. Gina Beavers: Da da da da yeah, and then and then teach, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I did that thing where I lose track of time and then I'm like, Is there still a train to New Jersey? Like, is it too late to get the train? You know. I've done that before where I've gone out in the East Village to like three in the morning and it turns out the train stopped running at two. And I had to take like a hundred and fifty dollar ooper. Not I didn't have to do that that night, but but Timoteo: wow. Gina Beavers: I yeah, I was in dangerous territory, like you know, just staying out and not monitoring. Yeah. So but it Timoteo: You got it. Gina Beavers: was fun. Yeah. I was hanging out with Corey the whole time, pretty much. Timoteo: and Suzanne McClellan, wasn't she there? Gina Beavers: Suzanne McClellan, yeah, it was fun. Yeah. yeah, that was a fun night. Timoteo: wait, I actually I feel like what did I I want to talk about Wednesday night, which is the night before that, because Gina Beavers: yeah yeah yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: that was the Tribeca openings. But Gina Beavers: right, yeah. Timoteo: first I went to the Ulrika Mueller show at Hoffman Donahue. And that was actually probably one of my favorite shows I've seen in the during the fall opening. I feel like Ulrika Mueller is like That's the kind of art that I, Timothy Hull, want to be seeing right now. Like it was, it was both conceptually compelling. Like there were a lot of ideas that were sort of pulling me in of like what, you know, what are the systems here? What's going on? Like what, how is this being developed? But then it also was just a beautiful show in terms of like the use of color and the shapes and the wall painting in relationship to the drawings and paintings that were, you know, framed and on the wall. And it just, it was the kind of show that made me spend a lot of time with it thinking, you know, enjoying visually. Like I found it visually stimulating and beautiful, but I also was really spending a lot of time thinking about the show, thinking about the ideas, thinking about the structure, thinking about the concept, the the sort of just the ideation of the whole thing. And so that was a highlight of Wednesday. And then I bopped down to the Michael Asif show at Post Times. That was a really Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: interesting show because he had traveled across the country and made this work from what he saw and from a truck. Like he was in he he went with a like a long haul trucker. So it's a real interesting portrait of like environmentalism in America, which I found pretty interesting. And Then I went to Tribeca. Then I walked over to Tribeca and went to the Mark McKnight show at Klaus, which was really beautiful, like large photographs in the back room and a big video installation in the front room, which he may, which may have been the video that he showed at the Whitney when he had a solo show at the Whitney, although it either looks just like it or it is the same video. That I'm not sure of. And I tried to go to see other things in Tribeca. Like I tried to get into Ellie Ryan's gallery, but I could not get into it because the peop the Gina Beavers: really? Timoteo: line coming out was so long and the line going in was so long that I was like, I j yeah. I did Exactly. I did just see that show two days ago though, and it's an awesome show. I went in like Gina Beavers: No way! my god. That was the Christopher K-ho. The yeah. okay. cool. Timoteo: it w on a Saturday and and and Ellie was in there and I and she was like, did you come to the opening? I was like, No, I couldn't get in. She's like, yeah, it was like it was like crushed. yeah. Yeah, she's got a cool space there now. She's right in Gina Beavers: that's amazing. What a coup. I mean that's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: like Walker Street with everybody. It's really it's great for her. and Gina Beavers: Yeah. that's great. Timoteo: and then after that, that after that was really fun because after all of that, I went to the Celine opening for their collaboration with Reebok. And that was really Gina Beavers: Yes, yes, how was that? Timoteo: fun. because there were, you know, lots of interesting celebrities and fascinating people there. And for me, it was a real coup because I'm not involved in the fashion world at all. Like I'm not, you know, connected in it or know all that much about it. But my best friend from college, her best friend from high school is Michael Ryder, who's the creative director head of Celine, who's now like one of the biggest. people in fashion. And and so, you Gina Beavers: wow. Timoteo: know, therefore I've known him for twenty plus years and have seen him go from not even being in fashion at all into rising through these ranks in a beautiful way. So now he's at the top of the heap. And he Gina Beavers: Wow. Timoteo: invited me to go to the Celine event, which was great. And then we went to like this unbelievably fancy dinner afterward. It was probably one of the fanciest dinners I've ever been to. and I sat next to Dan Levy, who's a great friend of Michael Ryder. Yeah. Gina Beavers: Shut Shut the fuck up. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You sat you sat next to Dan Le Levy, like the comedian writer? Holy shit. Tim, that's it. That's a celebrity sighting beyond. Timoteo: Yeah. For like two hours. Yeah. Holy shit. I mean Gina Beavers: I mean Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ugh. Timoteo: I mean, it ri I've never met him before, but through Michael and through my friend Jessica, I've gotten they know Dan Levy really well. And so I've been in the Dan Levy kind of circle for Gina Beavers: Wow. Okay. Timoteo: a long time. Because also one of my great friends and a collector of my art is Trevor Ballin, who is one of Dan Levy's oldest and best friends. So on many respects, I've been like in the Dan Levy. Gina Beavers: cool. Your Yeah. Timoteo: world for a long time, but I never actually like met him. So at this Celine event at at the at the dinner, Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: it was such an intimate dinner, it was like, you know, eight of us or something. Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: I got to sp spend some real quality time with him. That's a big Which was cool. Gina Beavers: That's amazing. What about that TV show? Have you watched Shits Creek? Okay. Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: I did watch that. Yeah, yeah, I did I did watch that. Yeah. and that was really cool. And so that was fun. You know, that was like my little like step into like Gina Beavers: Wow. Sorry. Timoteo: a a real upper echelon of like the fashion and you know celebrity world, which you know, t I Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: to be perfectly honest, I'm I am not involved in, you know, like really involved in, but so that Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: was sort of fun to just like step into that for a minute. But I might I'm Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: hatching a plan to go to Michael's Celine Women's Show in Paris in March, which that will probably be really interesting. Gina Beavers: Mm. What what my god. Culturati, Tim. That's so cool. Timoteo: So I have to report from I it's s sort of being I'm sort of like the forest gump of that. It's just like I happen to, you know, like f fall into it. Gina Beavers: To well you should say I can report back to the art world, you know, like I mean, I don't know if that's valuable Timoteo: Yeah. Well that's sort of, you know, what I'm gonna do. Gina Beavers: to them at all, but yeah. Timoteo: I mean, it is and it isn't. I mean, I'm I'm not a fashionista person in any capacity at all, but it you know, it's interesting to kind of be a fly on the wall at in that kind of context. I mean I at the Celine event I was standing next to Woody Harrelson and I was like, This is weird Yeah. Gina Beavers: Holy shit. Timoteo: And but I was also like, Why is Woody Harrelson here? Like I don't you know, like yeah. It was definitely a Gina Beavers: Acceline. Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah. Timoteo: a brush with you know, but that's like also if you've been in New York and you've been around, you just end up with that stuff sometimes, you know, so it's not that big a deal. Anyway. Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Yeah, it's kind of like yeah, and it's like nobody has that much time to you know, the kinds of time that it would take to become really tight in those circles. Like, you don't have any time you know, you never have enough time to like I don't know, sp become really close to I don't know. I don't know what I'm talking about. But I it always feels like sort of like you're touching you're getting a toe in, you know like I remember a night where I Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: danced with Chloe Sevene on the dance floor all night and like so we're it's just like these little like ships passing in the night. Like sometimes you you kind of yeah, you kind of like Timoteo: That's what I'm saying. If you're if you're in New York and you're going to stuff and you're out and you've been around or whatever, you end up at this stuff and you're like, here I am, like sitting at a dinner next to Dan Levy or like standing next to Woody Harrelson or something. You know, like it just sort of what hap- I mean, it's fun, it's awesome, but I also don't put that much weight into it because also at the end of the day, I do ha Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Right right right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Timoteo: I'm not that celebrity struck because I do have a Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: profound understanding that they are just really like anybody else and they're just as insecure as anybody else, they're just as, you know yeah, or even more so. Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right, right. Right. Possibly more so depending on yeah, depending on you know, 'cause that's a whole other thing that's thrust on you as of a str it's a stress in a certain type of way. well I I am here I walked here this morning in the pitch black, speaking of like I just thought this was cool. So I came down in the pitch blackness at like 5 30 a.m. and Anne, who is one of the other residents who lives in Holland most of the time. she's a performer, musician, like kind of multi-hyphenate. I ran into Anne on my way down here in the pitch dark, and she said, I'm coming. I like to get there early because I need to practice my flute. And I've I've had heard her the one morning when I came into the building, I could hear someone playing music, like just beautiful, like it's beautiful. No, no, it's beautiful because you just think Timoteo: That's beautiful. Or eerie. Is it eerie or is it beautiful or both? Gina Beavers: like it's fun to be in a building with other artists that aren't just visual artists because you see all of their Timoteo: Right. Gina Beavers: practices. And I have to say the performers, they get up early. Like they're here at Timoteo: Yeah, well they have to. Gina Beavers: the ass crack, like practicing or stretching or doing you know, like like Timoteo: Ha ha ha. Gina Beavers: the visual artists, they like roll up at like ten, a lot you know, but like but Timoteo: Of course. Gina Beavers: we also tend to be the night owls. Like we'll be here late. And then they yeah. So yeah. Timoteo: How many visual artists are there in the residency right now? Gina Beavers: that's a great question. I mean there's eighteen of us overall and probably like yeah, Timoteo: wow, that's big. Gina Beavers: there's probably like well some of people come for like a month and then leave. Other people are gonna show up in a month. Like few of us are here the whole time for two months. Timoteo: Right, see I didn't realize that 'cause I was just talking to Melissa Brown about it and she's Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: you know, she's a colleague of mine at Lehman College and she said Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: she had just done the headlines over the summer, but she only did the month residency Gina Beavers: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: and she was saying, she had actually wished she had stayed for like the full Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: kind of longer one and and I didn't Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: realize that there was a choice between shorter or longer periods Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: there. Gina Beavers: The summer one is very heavily people who teach because yeah, that Timoteo: I would think, yeah. Gina Beavers: makes but it was funny because I had this moment, I set up the WhatsApp chat for all the artists and the someone who has been here all year was like, that's that's just like Melissa Brown. She did that for the last cohort and I was like, my gosh. It's just funny, you know, the one person that I know, you know, from the New York art world, we're like little Timoteo: Yeah, well Melissa's a consummate organizer. She's like really Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah. We're like Timoteo: good at putting stuff together. Gina Beavers: Yeah, and there was kind of a groan like, great, like the New York artists are like coming in here and push you know, like, you know, about you know. Timoteo: Wait, are there people, Gina, who are doing the headlands for a year? Like you can do the residency for a year? Gina Beavers: So they give out it's to a Bay Area artist. And actually I got Paul Wackers. Do you know Paul? He was he was in our Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: studio building. I maybe still in our studio, our old Green Point studio building. So he had gotten the Turn of Salt Art Artist Award like 2008, he said. And that's a year-long residency where you get a studio here for the year. So but you have to. Timoteo: And you get your own private residency for that or do you have to live with the group of people for that? Gina Beavers: Normally they're living at home, but I have someone in my house who's so far away. She's like in Palo Alto, which is near Stanford, or Stanford actually. so she comes on the weekends. They have a place for her to stay if she comes for like four days Timoteo: I sing. Gina Beavers: and then she stays at home half the week. So but she has the studio for the year, which is kind of nice. And they're also grad fellows who are here for quite a bit. It's the same kind of situation where they're just either in a MFA program or just out of an MFA program and they get a studio. for year. So it's fun. There's all different levels, yeah. so it's really cool. Timoteo: Are there any New York artists who are there right now? Gina Beavers: I don't think so. It's really interesting. I mean, they were kind of saying this is the first cohort without any New York artists. I like, I'm like technically still Timoteo: Ha ha. Gina Beavers: technically a New York artist. Like sorry. Timoteo: they were like splitting hairs 'cause you live in New Jersey. Gina Beavers: No. Which is like my worst, you know. But I was like, I feel like I have to fess up. I'm pretty connected to the New York art world, like you know. but you know, it's interesting to see the different places people are coming from, and should there's like Chicago, North Carolina. Of course, those tend to be, you know, more far-flung tend to be maybe writers, like you could maybe be in different places and write. I don't know that you have to be, you know, there is like I said, Anne who's in Holland, there's somebody who's in Berlin. An American, lots of people sort of back and forth between different there there's an artist, Taro Mackey, who is from Botswana, who just got here. yeah, this is really cool, really international and yeah. It's awesome. Timoteo: That is very cool. Gina Beavers: It's so cool, yeah. So and my like kind of studio mate, I mean sh we have separate studios, but we kind of share the overhead space like the air. Timoteo: So you can't play music out loud? not going. I'm not going. Gina Beavers: We all have to wear headphones. Yeah, it's pretty. Yeah. Yeah. It's an adjustment. but she's South A from South Africa originally, but she's been in Oakland for ten years. she's a really great painter, Yamang Me Thorpe. So she's my housemate and my studio mate. So Timoteo: I re Gina, I have to hand it to you. I because I really d would deeply debate with myself if now at this stage in my life if I could handle Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: living and working in a very communal atmosphere like that. Like I I'm so used to now having Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Timoteo: my own solo, quiet spaces Gina Beavers: Uh-huh. Timoteo: that I'm in full control of every aspect of it that like The idea of then having to be in a workspace all the time that I that I can't play music out loud or I can't, you know, scream at the top of my lungs, or I can't whatever, you know, like like I I'm like, I don't know if I could work. I don't know if I could actually effectively do what Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scream. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: I do under conditions that aren't of my own device. I don't know. Like I am I'm yeah Gina Beavers: Yeah. Well I c I I kind of think of it like it's there are lots of different ways to collaborate and this is Timoteo: Sure, huh? Gina Beavers: almost like the lightest kind of touch of collaboration where you kind Timoteo: Okay. Gina Beavers: of have to think about someone else and like, okay, you know, I drop something. I'm sorry. You know, like you know, a little bit Timoteo: Yeah, exactly. Gina Beavers: of like a c you know, different ways to collaborate where you could actually, you know, every dinner e every night at dinner we have dinner together and we sort of move around the room and try to chat with other people and discuss their work. So it's like the very lightest way that you might collaborate with other artists. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: Even that I don't know if I could do that. Like I like I love other people. I'm definitely a social person, but the idea Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: of like having to have dinner every night with like a group of people like Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: would would psychologically like weigh on me or or I don't know. Gina Beavers: Sorry. Don't mean to laugh. I'm sorry. Timoteo: I'm just kind of a I'm impressed. I w what I'm saying is like I'm not like I'm I'm I'm impressed that you're doing it and you can do it because I question if I if it would be worth it for me to to do it or if I could do it. I fe 'cause I was never good at summer camp. I was never good Gina Beavers: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: at being away from I was not even good at college. Like I I went away to college for a year and like had a really hard time in the dorms, in the food hall. Like I Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Timoteo: I just kind of fell apart in a way. Gina Beavers: Yeah. I mean I I think there could possibly be people here who are having that same a similar experience. Like I'm picking up no. No. Did you ever? Yeah. Timoteo: Did you do Scowhegan? Did you ever do ScowHegan? Yeah. Cause I no, but but one of my like grad school mentors is Alex Perlstein, and she is a big Scowhegan person. Like she's been on the board and she went there and she's taught there. And Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: she was encouraging me to go. And I told Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: her about my difficulties sometimes with like being out of my life zone. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: And And she said, Well, did you ever go to summer camp? And I said, Yes, and I hated it. I I didn't survive. Like I had to go home. And she's like, Well, then don't go to Skowhegan, because, you know, it it's like it's like a extreme kind of summer camp vibe of like eating together, living together, like, you know, Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right, right, right. Yeah, because that's like that. Yeah. That vibe. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: for the whole for eight weeks. And I and I just knew that Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: that was something that I could maybe do for a week, but I couldn't do Gina Beavers: Right. But not Timoteo: like eight weeks of that kind of Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: out of my life, out of my rhythm, out of my I don't know, maybe I'm fragile, maybe I'm just a little f Faberget flower. Gina Beavers: Yeah. No, no, no, no. I mean I I can No, I can see that I I have some really like some habits that like I came here early with all my snacks and put them in the places. Timoteo: Ha ha ha. Gina Beavers: I was like, I right now I'm having coffee. I have my little cup warmer all set up. Like the first couple days was really about Gina, set up your shit so that you feel as comfortable as Timoteo: Nesting. Gina Beavers: possible. I went through all the linens in the house and found the like cover for my bed that I like and like you know it's like it's a lot of like especially at this age figuring out like I need my little routines. I discovered I drank wine like multiple nights last night watching we have a VHS player so we wa we we watch Timoteo: Ooh, okay. Well that's worth that's worth it. Can I bring on my old VHS tapes? Gina Beavers: So we watched like Sideways and Hell Night and on VHS, it's all very blurry and fucked up, and drinking wine, and I stayed up and I was like, I can't do this. I have to go to bed, like at a regular, you know, like there are certain psychological things that I have to like, boxes I have to check in order to be okay, you know, to be okay. I think the the thing that I appreciate about it is just the older I get, how being amongst a group of artists. we kind of at some very basic level get each other and can discuss our work. Timoteo: Mm-hmm. Gina Beavers: And I appreciate that opportunity because like the you know, the rest of the world, I mean, you kind of go around and try to interface with the rest of the world and st sound like a total freak. Like, you know, so it's nice to be with the freaks, to have this time to just you know, chat up whatever random thing that we're working on and have somebody give a shit. You know, it's like, you know Timoteo: I mean, there's a part of me now as an adult though that would like to challenge myself with doing something like this that's extremely Gina Beavers: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: out of my comfort zone and that I would be extremely uncomfortable with. Because when I was really Gina Beavers: Mm. Yeah. Timoteo: involved with the Gurjeef spiritual work, a big precept of Gurjief is make yourself uncomfortable so you become more awake, you become more aware, you become much more present in your life. And he would o say things like, you know, put a pebble in your shoe and walk around for the day. So you're like always aware of that like pebble. And it makes you sort of, you know, be aw Gina Beavers: Mhm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: more awake to your life. And and so there's a part of me that thinks like, well maybe actually it would be good for me to go be sort of jolted out of my life and, you know, and put into a situation that really makes me question like, what are my routines that I've developed? Are they valid? Are they worth it? Gina Beavers: Right, right. Right, right. Timoteo: you know, so yeah. Gina Beavers: And like what remains. I mean, I guess the thing when I first got here, I was like thinking you would love it because of the natural world part of it. Like there's the most gorgeous like beach that you can walk on every day. Like you would like the scenery and you know, and the food is really incredible. I think that there are things that you would absolutely love. But I said to you, like too many people depend on you. You know, you have too many, whether it's family or an you know, like I just don't know what would happen to them. If you left. You know, it's like, you know, I just don't yeah. Timoteo: N no, I mean it's definitely true. Like I I'm for better or for worse, I don't have a I don't have a lifestyle that's set up to be able to go away for two months. Like it like I I Gina Beavers: Yeah. Right, right, right. Yeah. Timoteo: mean even when I go into the city f three nights a week, I come back to my house here and there's Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: like, you know, the lawn needs to be mowed. There's a you know a the problem with the water softener. I have to call the plumber. You know, like there's just like always stout or like, my my I have to help my parents, Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You have mm hmm. Timoteo: I have to drive my dad to this thing. Or like, I've got a cat and a dog to, you know, and so like Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Timoteo: the idea on the one hand the idea of going away for two months is like sounds incredible. But on Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yes, totally. Timoteo: the other hand, I feel like I've got I've I've made my life with too many moving parts that I can't extricate my you know, I wouldn't Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Timoteo: I went I went to Italy for a a week in May and I feel like by the time I got back home everything here just like, you know, even though Corey manages some stuff, I'm d I definitely do more of the management of the house and the physical plant and stuff and the animal. I take care of all the animals and stuff. Gina Beavers: Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah, yeah. Timoteo: that but I do I do have a fantasy that maybe one day in the future Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you should Timoteo: it'd be more possible. Gina Beavers: totally. Well, and also just for anyone looking towards, you know, did I tell you this? I was diagnosed with sleep apnea. Yeah, do you know Yes, yes. Timoteo: No, that sounds terrible. Do you have to be hooked up to a machine? Gina, you're like a cyborg. I can't deal with that. Gina Beavers: But it was so funny. Well, first of all, when I met sorry, this is going somewhere related to the residency. Timoteo: Okay. Gina Beavers: But when I first met with the doctor, he was like, you snore very loud. Like that's just what he said. Just like you snore very loud. Timoteo: How does he how does the doctor know that you snore very loud? Gina Beavers: Because you have to wear this like monitor at night, like a sleep test at night, and they record everything, including the decibel level of your snoring and every aspect of like, do you sleep on your side, do you sleep on your back? Like it's like monitoring it all. So I have mild to moderate sleep apnea. It was very funny because he was like, listen, you know, you can get a machine that's pink. for her, as though that was gonna like make me feel like, you know, because they're thinking like you're still kind of young and you, you know, you have a husband and like he's gonna be slipping sleeping next to this person. Because they're Timoteo: they're they're gender coding like sleep machines like that's a little weird. Gina Beavers: worried that you're gonna find it unattractive and your mate is gonna find it unattractive and you might not Timoteo: Yeah. Yeah. Gina Beavers: do it, you know. but when I got here, so you need to like use I don't have the machine yet, but I will in a few weeks. And you have to use distilled water to make it run. And they were saying we have distilled water for anyone with sleep apnea machine. So that just gives you a a sense of how the age of the average age of some of the fellows Timoteo: Ha ha ha ha. Gina Beavers: is that we're, you know, they're over a certain age have developed sleep apnea. It's more likely Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: as you get older. And anyway, just to say that there's no age limit on this residency, and there are quite a few older people, people in their 60s and 70s, and you know, so. Timoteo: Well, Gina, one thing I an idea I wanna float to you, and I'm gonna float it live on the podcast because I wanna Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: I wanna eventually be held accountable to it. Is I speaking of residencies, I want to host a one-week unstretched residency in Italy where you and I offer like a week-long workshops for people, like critiques and like drawing Gina Beavers: Okay. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: stuff, like in Tuscany for a week. It's like the unstretched like week in Tuscany. Okay, we're doing it. okay. Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. What? okay. I mean it sounds amazing, but wait, what are we gonna Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: what are we gonna teach? Timoteo: So w how it's gonna work is people will pay to go for a week to Tuscany to stay at a villa. Gina Beavers: Uh-huh. Okay. Okay. Okay. Timoteo: And you and I will go as well. And Gina Beavers: Ha ha. Okay. Timoteo: what they're paying for is us to run some workshops with them. Gina Beavers: Okay. Timoteo: Like it's basically just like we're like hanging out, but like we're all we're all gonna go out drawing today. we're all gonna go out to this Gina Beavers: Okay. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: little chapel and like talk about the paint the frescoes in the chapel or we're gonna all make dinner and talk about like our art or our lives like you know it's just sort of like a retreat let's think of it more of like a retreat like an unstretched retreat in Tuscany Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Retreat. Yeah. Timoteo: for like a week Gina Beavers: Yeah, that sounds fun as hell. I mean okay. Timoteo: Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna do it. Gina Beavers: I don't know exactly what I can teach. Like I feel like I have more questions than answers. So maybe that will be the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As like Timoteo: No, I mean the teaching aspect is like you're just there as like a as like a shepherd, as like a guide or you know Gina Beavers: I could just do studio visits and discuss, like, yeah. Well, are we gonna have studios? How's that gonna work? Timoteo: Yeah, just like stud yeah, people show you their work or what they're working on. Gina Beavers: Well anyway, we can iron this all out. Timoteo: Yeah. No, there it would be like there's there're these there are these residency programs that you can hook into and they have little studio Gina Beavers: some point. This like fantasy. yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: spaces, they have little crit spaces and you know, or they provide food, you know, like they have a chef there and like, you know, it's a little bougie, it's slight, you know, Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. Uhhuh. Timoteo: it'd be it'd be so you know, it wouldn't be like so fancy, but it would be, you know, it'd be nice. It wouldn't be I do. I have I actually have a couple of hookups that I've been kind of floating Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Do you have a hookup on a spot in Tuscany? You do. Okay. interesting. Yeah, interesting. Cause I might, Timoteo: The idea for Yeah, I just think it'd be fun. Gina Beavers: yeah, totally. That sounds really amazing. I wanted No, Timoteo: Cause you might what? Gina Beavers: I might have a hookup in southern Italy. Like more of a southern, yeah. Matera Timoteo: Hmm. even better. Wait, where in southern Italy? Gina Beavers: on a masteria. Timoteo: my god, no, let's go to Matera. Forget it. Forget fucking Tuscany. No, it's Matera all the way. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. yeah, but yeah. Well, I know we're getting kind of we're a little ways in and we were like maybe are we gonna do this every week or every other week? Timoteo: it depends upon what you want to do. How do you feel? Gina Beavers: Yeah, I mean we could do it every week, but we might maybe we wanna wrap up soon. I did wanna mention Elliot Hunley has a show open at Regan Projects in LA. Ugh. Timoteo: I saw that. Yeah, that looked awesome. Gina Beavers: His work is like so incredible. And I saw really and he's just like a lovely person, so smart, and he teaches a lot and so kind and has this fantastic building, sort of near Chinatown in LA. multi-story massive 18,000 square foot building filled with animals and unbelievable antiques and his studio and he's done exhibitions there, textiles, like he has all is just such a cool person. I saw this video with him where he was saying, you know, he's a big guard he was a big gardener and he didn't want to make paintings until he could make paintings as beautiful as a tree. Which I thought was such a n a neat way to think of. Yeah. Yeah. So Timoteo: So Monet. Yeah I I remember seeing a great show of his I think it was Andrea Rosen. Like now it's probably like a decade ago, but that's when I first saw his work and I was like, this is dope. And I did see his show at Regan, Gina Beavers: Mm, mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: he had a show at Regan maybe two years ago when I was there. Gina Beavers: okay. Yeah. Timoteo: and I've definitely followed his work and I think at school. But yeah. Gina Beavers: Yeah, very he's just very cool. but it was making me think also about so I'm gonna try to get down there, even though I know it's like huge distance from here, to see the show before it closes. but it was making me think of like LA, West Coast versus East Coast. Like the fact that such a big part of his process was like gardening feels a little bit like something that an LA artist could do that A New York artist might not be not even be attuned to, don't have, you Timoteo: Right, because most New York artists don't even know you know Gina Beavers: know, like because there is so much more. But then it made me also think about LA West Coast census versus New York census. Not to make this into a West Coast versus East Coast thing, but I was, it reminded me this one time I was in LA, like in January. I was there for a week. And I came back to New York on one of those days when it was like 80 degrees in January, you know, when we have those freak, like extremely warm. but so I had been in LA, so I was like, my hearing and my nose and like everything was tuned to like Los Angeles. And then came back to New York and instantly heard like every conversation on the street. Like I could hear people had their windows open, I could hear people talking in their apartments, could hear people passing by, but I still had these like LA senses on me. But I was in New York and I had that sense of like people, you know, like New York is about that kind of overhearing people talking, the kind of You know, but it was just such a fun the street of it all, but Timoteo: Yeah, the street noise is pre so present. Gina Beavers: like with those coming back to New York with my LA tuned senses, noticing like the culture, the like ecosystem that is New York with those kind of otherwise tuned senses was like a super interesting thing for me. So yeah. But anyway, that was a whole journey we went on. Timoteo: Well now that you're gonna be now that you're gonna be in such sort of nature isolation, when you come Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: back to New York, you're gonna be really sort of shocked by it. You're gonna have like culture shock. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah, totally. I was I'm worried that I'm gonna like break down as soon as like real life it's like re entering the atmosphere kind of and like gravity asserting itself and like am I gonna just have a Timoteo: Definitely. Gina Beavers: total meltdown when like the rest of humanity just like all of that just like descends on me. I'm like gonna it'll be weird. Timoteo: I have a meltdown. Whenever I if even if I'm in Italy for a week and I come back to America I have a meltdown because I have to spit out the first cup of coffee I have because it's so disgusting. Gina Beavers: Ugh. Just so sad. You can never recreate it. The milk, the like, I mean it's just so damn good. The water, the water. That makes sense. Yeah. So Timoteo: No. What's the water? It's the water. The water. Yeah. Anyway. So this this week I actually have something interesting I'm doing. I Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: was one of the invited artists to go to the Flag Art Foundation Art World Summit this week. So like Glenn Furman and the art and the Flag Gina Beavers: fun. cool Tim. Yes. Timoteo: Art Foundation have this annual like big art world summit of like people discussing you know, what's going on in the art world and they invited a few artists to be sort of in the mix 'cause you have to pay like a shit ton of money to like go to this thing 'cause it's pretty high level. Like Max Holeen is talking and they've Gina Beavers: my gosh. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: got all these like international art director people talking and so yeah, so I was invited to go for the day. And just sort of be like a fly in the wall, I suppose, or participate in whatever the dialogue is. So that's that'll be interesting. That'll be worth sort of, you know, thinking about what that what that means, what that's all about. Because the theme is the art of the influence. And I don't know what that means. I don't know what they're trying to get at with that kind of concept. So I'm I'm I'm at Gina Beavers: Yeah, what is that? Yeah. Timoteo: least kind of intrigued as to what anyone's gonna have to say. Gina Beavers: Yeah. That's very cool. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: Because does anyone have any influence? I mean, look at that Time magazine top one hundred list. I mean, I I couldn't even get through it. Like I like I started to look through it and a after like, you know, 30, some odd thing, I was like, who cares? Like I Gina Beavers: Well. Timoteo: d you know, these people have influence, but over who? How much? Like how are they chosen? You know, why is there an order? Why? You know, like there was something that that after I was going through the list I was like I can't even I can't even get it's a hundred is too many. Hundred was too many. Yeah. But what's interesting Yeah. definitely, sure. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah, a hundred is a hundred is a lot. Yeah. Well I was happy happy for people that I knew that were on it. Like it seems like a good yeah, for sure. But yeah, I was like if someday, Tim, someday, when we both have CPAP machines Timoteo: I was like, no, wait a minute. How come unstretched isn't in that? Yeah. Gina Beavers: we'll be on sorry, when we both have sleep apnea. Timoteo: Well it's interesting that Amy Sherrill was the first Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: artist on the cover of Time magazine since Robert Rauschenberg. Gina Beavers: Yeah, it's pretty cool. But I would just say mmm, I don't know, that's gonna maybe be too it's gonna sound like I'm downing on Amy Sherald, which I'm not because she's like a total goddess and like but the place of Time magazine in the culture has shifted since Robert Rauschenberg was on the cover. Timoteo: Gina, I am so glad you said that because I was going to say that and I was like and now you're the bitch, thank you. Thank you for ta thank you for being the fall gal. Gina Beavers: And now I'm the bitch. But it's not it's no reflection necessarily on Time magazine. It's a reflection on the culture and people's attention and people's Timoteo: I think it's both. Gina Beavers: well, okay, yeah. But p you know, magazines in general versus yeah. Bo versus all of our Timoteo: Well, to me, the point that I'm trying to that I was trying to make about it, which I think is sort of what you're pointing to, is and it's my old argument Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Timoteo: I've I've been talking about on this podcast a number of times, is what I feel like is the larger anti-intellectual shift in the art world. Whereas in the seventies, Rauschenberg is on the front cover of time, and he was a pretty difficult artist in many respects. Like Rauschenberg's work in general is not accessible to a general public. And yet he was on the cover of Time magazine. And now when they have to pick all the artists to be on the cover of Time magazine, they pick Amy Sherald, who's probably one of the most accessible artists. Like her, she did the you know painting of Michelle Obama. Like her work is very pop, it's very accessible, it's very, you know, it's not intellectual in or it's not conceptual in in the same way that Rauschenberg's work is. And so I'm see, I'm making the point. Gina Beavers: disagree disagree No that's that's not my point No go go ahead go no no go ahead No go ahead though yeah no no no no I understand No no no Yeah Timoteo: That I feel like r okay, fine. You think that her work is concept is conceptual? I'm not saying her see, this is where I feel like like words can get twisted and I'm afraid of of saying this because I feel like I'm not saying her work is stupid. I'm not saying her work is dumb or her work isn't good. Her work is amazing, her work is great, but I don't think it's as challenging or i in culturally in a larger sense as like Rauschenberg's maybe was at the time. I think that in general her work is more pop. It's much more it's pop in a way that Rauschenberg's was a different kind of pop art Gina Beavers: It's it's completely culturally challenging to fifty percent of the American popul. It's completely culturally challenging. It's just not, you know, we're talking sort of apples and oranges in terms of the way that we're talking about culture and how it's shifted. You know, like Amy Sherald, I mean, you know, Trump just de-accessioned or got rid of the Cahindi Wiley painting at the one. embassies. So it's like completely unacceptable to a part of the culture, you know, that that Amy Sherald is saying, here are, you know, people in my community, here are, you know, black Americans on a canvas. It's completely culturally unacceptable. Timoteo: Okay. I mean yes, I Gina Beavers: Yeah, I think it's like you know, it is completely but Timoteo: I can I can I I totally understand that argument, absolutely. Gina Beavers: I'm just my point is just that Time magazine is more back to your point about monoculture. Like we used to have a monoculture in a sense that we no longer have. The idea that we would have like Time magazine or Walter Cronkite or you know, that there would be certain news sources that we all you know, or that a majority that were there was like a hierarchy of like respect and that was my point. My point was just we don't have that anymore we have a thousand different news sources and we have influencers and we have Timoteo: See, I I just felt like my point was like out of all the artists they put on the cover, I feel like there were plenty of other artists who were probably maybe in a more okay, let's say maybe in a more intellectually way challenging the culture versus a visual way challenging the culture. Gina Beavers: intellectually you mean Rauschenberg was intellectually challenging. sorry, I don't Timoteo: Yeah, like I feel like his work in in terms of its politics was was multivalent. Like I feel like he was challenging not just sort of environmental, political, conceptual ideas, but also visual art ideas. The idea of of what visual art could be, how we saw visual art, like the different layers of visual art. Like he was very modern. And I guess the larger point I'm making is that the twentieth century was more about intellectualism and art, conceptualism and art. And I think that the twenty-first century is more about we're back to more about like beauty. Like Amy Sherald's paintings are beautiful. They are absolutely gorgeous. And I feel like Raushenberg's work was ugly, you know, to a large degree. I t it's really hard to like Find a Rashenberg piece that anyone would think is actually beautiful, right? Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, I I posted that video of Jennifer Hagee talking about the history of art in the 20th century. Did you see that? I posted that to our Unstretched. Timoteo: Maybe. Yes. Gina Beavers: I mean, you're super busy like during the week and but you know, she had she was talking about how the history written in the I think in the 17th century included 13 women. And then the history that was written in 1962 included zero women. So when you talk about the history of 20th century art, yes, there is this temptation to talk about intellectualism and conceptualism in a way that, but it's also very, you know, in a way it's sort of like saying, well, all of those. people that were not included were not we're big we're all dummies, you know, we're all like, Timoteo: Right. Gina Beavers: you know what I mean? I mean there's this there's this sense that there's an exclusiveness there where yeah, it feels great to have everything defined in a certain conceptually rigorous way that we all agree on. But like but that is a s sliver of a type of practice that, you know, I don't know. That's just how I yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: Well I'll well I'll I'll give everyone this. I will say at the end of the day, I'm still glad that Time magazine thinks that art is even relevant enough to do an issue. Gina Beavers: I think it's great. I think it's yeah. I think that's really great. Yeah. Timoteo: And so that that I feel like, you know, is is still because I always feel like art now is so siloed and so, you know, in in insular that like who the hell gives a fuck about the art world outside of the art world? So the fact that Time magazine actually devoted you know an entire issue to a hundred influential art world people is still Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think it's yeah. Timoteo: kind of cool. Gina Beavers: Yeah, it's cool for sure. And I had a moment where I was just like, you know, would it be cool to be included on the Time 100 list? Wouldn't you like that? But I had a moment where I had to be like Gina. I mean, of the two, and maybe you could even speak to this as someone who has some real like teaching jobs that are very coveted and it's like of the two, I'm glad that I am at the headlands and I'm like spending two months just like making art and if I had to pick, you know, between those two Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: d like honors, like I feel like this is something that's gonna feed me like my practice and my heart in a way that, you know, and pro probably Probably teaching the way that you do and working with you know, being able to talk about art every day and this very versus being on a list, any kind of list, is probably more fulfilling, but yeah, I don't know. Timoteo: I just feel like I don't know if it's some kind of deeper insecurity or something, but I just can't imagine how I would make a list because I I've never been on any kind of like a list, you know? Like I just don't do listy stuff. Like I feel like my I'm Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Right, right, right, right. Timoteo: you know I don't know. I've just feel like I've always been and this is sounds I'm like Tooting my own horn, but I feel like I've always been so weird in my esoteric interests that that being on a Time magazine list would be it just wouldn't happen. Like I j, you know, like I don't for better or for worse, I don't make work for a large audience. I've never been able to make work for a large audience. My work has never hit a large audience. It's it always has too many weird references that aren't. in the pop culture or aren't in the you know, gestalt Gina Beavers: Mm. Yeah. Timoteo: or whatever, or zeitgeist that that I just am too weird to be. So I don't even I don't even entertain it. Gina Beavers: But you're going yeah, but you're going to the flag summit. So maybe you're gonna end up on the Timoteo: Yeah, but Gina Beavers: list as an influencer and a cultural critic, you know. Maybe you're gonna as a thought the th the thought the thought leader, a thought leader. Timoteo: god, then the art daddy'll the art daddy will cult will assassinate me. Gina Beavers: And I be people get so much out of the you know. Timoteo: No, but even my thought leading is like totally offbeat. Like here I am saying, Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: I I want more conceptualism and intellectualism in the art world, but nobody wants that, you know, like everyone's fights against that, so Gina Beavers: No, no, no, no, no. Sorry. No, but you're just you're up against this like bitchy, like I'm just like this bitchy. we just have different I mean this is why the podcast works. We come from really different, you know, between the two of us we have all of the perspectives. Like I Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: feel like or we encapsulate and I understand what you're saying. I mean Robert Rauschenberg to a larger culture, you know, my kid could do that. My kid could take a a stuffed, you know a stuffed ram's head Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: and toss it into an in my kid could do that. You know, like Amer American culture is anti-intellectual, period. So like I yeah, I get what you're saying and but I just don't I don't get it as Amy Sherold as the foil. I think Amy Sherold is a descendant of Rauschenberg. You know, I mean that's I I Timoteo: Yeah. Well, it's like when I went into the Ulrica Mueller show at Donahue Hoffman Donahue, I was like, This Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: is the kind of art like I wanna be seeing like these days and I Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: feel like the work that Ulrika Mueller is doing is so offbeat to what the art world is into right now. It's like, Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Timoteo: you know, kind of shocking. Gina Beavers: Yeah, but that's I mean, that's the point. You have to to follow that sense, you know. but yeah, what else? We were gonna try to talk about Timoteo: But speaking of s Gina Beavers: AI. Timoteo: but I do wanna but we'll talk about AI next week because I because that's so depressing. I I I need to I Gina Beavers: Yeah. Okay. Timoteo: need to end in a nicer note. I wanted to tell you th about how I went the other day to the Gilding Gray School opening at Cooper Union. Gina Beavers: that's so cool, yes. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: That was so cool. So like Anya Killar and you know, Johannes Vanderbeek and Sarah Vanderbeek had that wonderful gallery in Soho back in like the early mid-2000s called Gild and Grayschull, which me everyone of our generation knows very well, but a lot of listeners might not. And it was sort of born out of a mentality coming out of Cooper Union. There were a lot a lot of them were like Cooper Union students and They had an orientation towards that. And they were in a ground floor Soho space, which was like somehow maybe the Vanderbeek's like family space from the seventies or something, I think. Yeah, like their yeah, like their dads their their father was like yeah. Gina Beavers: cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Sarah Vanderbeek and James Vanderbeek, right? Or her father. And Johanna Yeah. Timoteo: Not James Van is Van Der Bee. James Van Der Wait James Van wait. All right, I Gina Beavers: No no sorry. But it wait, what is Jo Johannes? Johannes Timoteo: Are we messed up now with names? Gina Beavers: and Sarah Vanderbeek. Yeah. Their father is. Let me look it up. Stan Vanderbeek. my God. I'm so sorry. And also R Timoteo: Johannes and Sarah are brother and sister. Wait, is James Vanderbeek their father? No, Stan Vanderbeek is their father. Stan Vanderbeek. Stan Vanderbeek is their father. James Vanderbeek is the actor who just died. Gina Beavers: I P R-I-P, that sweet man. Yeah, okay. Timoteo: Yeah. Anyway, okay, so Gina Beavers: This is when you get an American an American art podcast with a a big dumb TV idiot was me. Timoteo: Exact exactly. It's cool. Anyway, so they closed now, like you know, 15 years ago or something, but they had like a reunion kind of show, a Cooper Union, Gina Beavers: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: of a lot of the artists who were in all the Gild and Gray Skulls shows, but also some artists who were just tangential to the movement. And it was really cool. Like I I saw a lot of interesting people. There was some great artwork, artwork from that era, but artwork from now. And it was interesting how Some things haven't changed. Gina Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: Like the artwork still looks as good or fresh now as it did then. And it was a good crowd. And it was just one of those fun moments where you've sort of been around New York long enough that like what goes around comes around. And it was also one of those moments, too, where you're like at middle age with a bunch of people who are still at it, still making work, still showing, and you're like, wow, we're still doing it. Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Timoteo: Like many have left, many have gone, but we're still here. And it felt good to to feel like there's still a movement and an energy coming out of that. So it's awesome. And Anikilar said she's a big fan of the podcast. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah, it's really awesome. That's so cool. that's so great. Well, Any Keelar, big fan of her work, like big influence on my work. Like in the you know, I just love seeing her work. Yeah. Timoteo: When I put you and her in a show together, when I curated that show at Ashes Ashes in the summer of twenty nineteen, you were in that show with the palette painting and she was Gina Beavers: my god Yes Ugh Timoteo: in the same show. So I curated you guys together. Gina Beavers: She's the greatest, yeah. So good. Yeah, that was Timoteo: Yeah, that was a great show. That was with Matt Surletti, Greg Edwards, Jason Mathams, Gina Beavers: Yes. Timoteo: Gina Beavers, and Anya Keelar. Yeah, got an art forum review. It was really great. Gina Beavers: That was awesome. Yeah. Yeah, Tim. See? This is why you're going to the flag summit. This is why you're going to the flag summit. Timoteo: I can curate. I know, but you know, that was one of those annoying things where like it was a very successful curatorial endeavor and got a lot of press and attention, but then no one ever asked me to curate anything after that. And that's been Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Timoteo: like seven years. And I've tried to like, you know, send things to people, say, let me curate that, you know, but nothing ever came out of that. And that's one of those like Gina Beavers: That's yeah. Yeah. Yeah to try yeah yeah Timoteo: frustrating things about the art world sometimes is Gina Beavers: yeah. Timoteo: you think like, I've hit this thing, it's good, it's getting attention, it's gonna lead to something else. And then it doesn't. And you're like Gina Beavers: Well, you just have to do it ten more tim you just have to fucking force it ten more times. Also, Timoteo: You just have to do it ten more times. Exactly. Gina Beavers: the narrative of the curator has to be a whole thing. If there has to be a narrative Timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: of the artist and their work, there has to be a narrative of like, what is this that you're doing, this curating? What is the I don't know. It's like a whole whole thing. Plus you have a lot of competition from like other like actual like the curator curators cl who are just Timoteo: Sure, exactly. Gina Beavers: like get the fuck out of my territory. No, they're not like that at all but Timoteo: Yeah. But I love the idea of the artist curator, like Alex De Corte is curating the the Liechtenstein show at the Whitney and I'm like I think that there's like there is Gina Beavers: Yes. so cool. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: I do sometimes think that artist curators are as good as regular curators because they have a different perspective or they know the artists in a more like Gina Beavers: Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: unique way. Gina Beavers: Well, when I curated that show at Boski, all of the artists who saw it said this was definitely curated by an artist. Like, you know, because it's like Timoteo: Yeah. Totally. Gina Beavers: the connections that you make are so different Timoteo: Yeah, exactly. Gina Beavers: from yeah. So well cool Tim. I'm very sad. Yeah. Timoteo: Well maybe, hey Gina, maybe another idea I'm gonna float out into the public so we're Gina Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: held to is maybe one day we curate like an unstretched art show. Yeah. Like the world of unstretched. Gina Beavers: We should absolutely do the so the level I was thinking of as well, I was thinking we curate a show, but also like we could just have a party. Like just have like a bar and we all meet and we invite listeners to come hang out and like meet each other and meet us and maybe we start with something like that first, you know? Yeah. Timoteo: Yeah, it's a cool idea. And then it leads to our like residency program in Italy. Gina Beavers: Yes, then we are walking around like the Tuscan village with a little flag on the end of a stick, like leading our leading our Okay. Timoteo: I will do it. I will lead those tours. Gina Beavers: Amazing. We will have to watch Timoteo: All right, Gina. Gina Beavers: Room with a View though. Okay. TV. I mean yeah, okay, cool. Okay, well Timoteo: Of course, that's required viewing and reading. Yeah. We'll be living in our own merchant ivory films. Gina Beavers: I'm gonna miss you so much though. How's this gonna happen? Okay, I'm I don't wanna say goodbye. Okay, cool. Bye. Bye, bye Tim. Yeah Timoteo: Alright, Gina. So we'll talk we'll try to talk next week. Alright, well, goodbye to our listeners. Thank you for tuning in. And remember to follow us on Instagram and you know rate and review on Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yes. Rate and review w only nicely. Timoteo: Spotify or iTunes or whatever the fuck that is. Like, you know, keep us in the mix, folks. Alright. Ciao. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, bye. Bye.