timoteo: Hello, hello, hello. This is Timothy Hall. Gina Beavers: And this is Gina Beavers. timoteo: And welcome to Unstretched. Our show, which is about all kinds of unstretched things. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah, and Tim coming to us live from his resort. The look that it just looks so beautiful behind you. It looks so good. Also, yeah. timoteo: No. Yeah, it's my backport. It's like my ref ⁓ Gina Beavers: It looks great. I love it. timoteo: Well, had a big bl electrical blowout in my studio the other day. Like there was some kind of surge that came through and like blew out like a whole line of plugs and fuses. And I could not fix it myself. I tried to sort of see what I could do myself, but I had to get an electrician in and he actually had to come this morning, which is Labor Day. I was like, You wanna work on Labor Day? And he's like he's like, Yeah, he's like, I'm laboring. ⁓ so I guess he has a different conception of Labor Day. Gina Beavers: ⁓ no. ⁓ that's crazy. Yeah. timoteo: ⁓ but but yeah, so I can't use my studio computer, so I had to set up on my back porch, which is a nice quiet private area. Gina Beavers: ⁓ yeah, to ⁓ man. Was it in conjunction with a storm? Was there like a timoteo: It what it was in conjunction with some kind of power I don't if I it was actually happen yes, I get it did happen when there was a storm, but some kind of transformer blew somewhere else and shot a surge of electricity or something like that. You know, like what happens in the country when you live, you know, with old electricity. But fortunately I have surge for Gina Beavers: Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. Yeah. timoteo: So it didn't like blow up any computer stuff, but y you know, it's one of those realities of home ownership. Gina Beavers: ⁓ good. No, totally. yeah, we're having issues, gutter issues. Well, partly like if you don't get your gutters cleaned out for three years, you start to have issues. So yeah. ⁓ you have ⁓ okay. timoteo: Yeah. Or you have to get gutter guard. I have gutter guards, but I have to I also have to get out like a wind blower, whatever those like a like a leaf blower, yeah. I I leaf blower and I get like up on the roof and I blow out like on top of 'cause the gutter guards stop the leaves from going in the gutter, but they usually sit on the gutter and that's still like can cause problems. So Gina Beavers: ⁓ yeah, what is that? It's a leaf flower. Is that what it is? ⁓ yeah. ⁓ I didn't even think about that. Yeah. No, totally. Also, by the way, but ⁓ just in terms of our different visual, did you notice that I'm sitting back a little bit? But the only we're the same size. The only side effect is look at this incredibly phallic microphone, like in my face. How phallic is that? That's like the most phallic. timoteo: Boring home rap. ⁓ so we're the same size now? It could it could be worse because my microphone, which you cannot see, which I will show you, looks much more foul. ⁓ This literally looks like a giant dick in my face. Gina Beavers: Uh-huh. Yeah. ⁓ dude. ⁓ Well they they almost look like circumcised and uncircumcised, sorry. Anyway, where are we going right off the bat? timoteo: Exactly. Which is why I have mine which is why I have mine off camera because I'm too much of a seat. But I I've always I always appreciate your podcast bro look, you know, like your headphones, the microphone, you're like you're playing the role. Gina Beavers: Yeah. No, I know. I know. Believe me, I tried I tried so hard to do something with the headphones. I was playing around trying to not use them. And this is my compromise, is like making the hair look okay and then putting them over the hair. Like they're like I'm hiding them a little. But I that's my dream is someday I won't have headphones. timoteo: Yeah, no, it looks cheap. Looks really good. Well, I'm sure I'm you know what? Like like Tim Curry said in the Rocky Art picture shows Frank and Furter, don't dream it, be it. Gina Beavers: That's what I'm live I'm living for. ⁓ ⁓ man, I wish. ⁓ Tim Curry So sad. timoteo: Yeah, see that one hit I mean, we have a lot of deaths to talk about this week because you know, between Dolly and Gloria and Tim Curry it was definitely ⁓ it was like they come in through sort of thing, they say. Gina Beavers: I know, I know. Yeah. Yeah. I know totally. The the Dolly and the Gloria, like well, I just think like they represent kind of different aspects, but like together it's like, you know, quite a juggernaut of like, you know, Dolly is I don't know, one of those people that made you not hate being American. Like she was sort of very American in a way, but like in a way that didn't timoteo: So which one hit you the hardest? Gina Beavers: you know, you were proud, you know, proud of. And I think as a I love reading all of her stuff about her husband and her relationship with her husband. And one of the things she said was like, you know, the best thing that you can find in a partner is freedom, is somebody who allows you to be free. And I think for women that particularly, I mean that's on all relationships, but I think like You know, for women in straight relationships, that idea that you don't have a partner who's like possessive who won't allow was like not gonna compete with you, is not is gonna allow you to live your life and like you know, that's kind of a huge thing. I mean, beyond her beautiful music and you know, all of her mini like songwriting. I mean, what a songwriter and ⁓ and then Gloria Steinem, I mean, come on, like, ⁓ so much important stuff there. And I of course I'm like, you know, I'm getting ready to go to the headlands for two months. And she was she I was reading all these things she was saying about home and finding a home and but like you can have a home but then also need to go on a journey. So I've been like thinking that a lot. Like I need to go on a journey, but I have a home, you know, like timoteo: You really are going on a journey because two months is a long time away from your home. When you actually like I feel like when you own a home and you're settled and you have a partner and you have animals, like you really have a home and to go away for two months is a long time. That's like that it really is like a serious journey. Gina Beavers: I know. No, I know. It feels very I'm sure I'm gonna be like a little homesick, even though I'm gonna be in the most beautiful, like that park is insane with those like wild natural beach that looks out onto the bay. And ⁓ I still know that I'm gonna have like little homesickness. It's also yeah, like like and being older and yeah. ⁓ but yeah. Gloria Steinem had so many she just articulated so many things about timoteo: I'm sure. Gina Beavers: the traps that women, particularly like in traditional relationships, kind of get stuck in and how much child rearing, all this stuff, ⁓ just so many layers of the way that she saw women in the world that she just, yeah, acknowledged the hardships. timoteo: I think those are still really real traps that women get caught in today, even still. And I think even even even men get caught in certain traps of certain ways, you know, like I feel like there's still there's in relationships there's so much about societal expectations and like role expectations that even though we've come a long way can still be really constrictive. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. No, absolutely. I was thinking about this because I was talking to ⁓ some friends of yours that live in the East lived in the East Village. And I was saying one of so like ten or fifteen years ago, we were coming back from vacation. We came into our building on 10th Street. There was a police officer mon like stationed there, and they were like, Sadly, one of your neighbors passed away in their apartment. ⁓ just very elderly. And it turned out it was Shulamenth Firestone. I don't know if you've ever heard of her, but she was like kind of an iconic feminist, ⁓ not as well known, but like she had written this whole ⁓ treatise about how women will never really be equal until babies can be gestated outside a woman's body. It was basically like, which, you know, it's pretty far out there, but it's like Still waiting for that to like I'm I'm not saying that like having a baby Yeah, or just having these like tanks that actually you know, that was sort of her idea. timoteo: So like a test tube baby. Yeah. We're probably pretty we're probably closer to that than we'd like to admit. Gina Beavers: I know. I mean, I think like all of my friends who've had b you know, they different experiences with actually like growing a baby and loving it, loving the experience of it, hating it, whatever. So I'm not trying to say, but that was her theory was just like women are never really going to be equal until there is like equality in terms of child rearing. ⁓ and part of that starts with the woman being the site of like, anyway. timoteo: Right. Gina Beavers: So ⁓ it turned out she lived on our floor, like across the hall from us. I never knew. ⁓ this like in iconic. Yeah, anyway. But that I was thinking about that this week. timoteo: Yeah. Did you ever did you watch that show that was maybe on FX like six years ago called Mrs. America? Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. ⁓ I don't think so, yeah. timoteo: And it was about like the the about the women's movement of trying to pass the Equal Rights Amendment. And it and like it had like Kate Blanchett as Phyllis Schlafley and it sort of featured like, you know, Gloria Steinem and all the great feminist women of that time. And I, you know, admittedly I didn't really know all that much about Gina Beavers: ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Mm-hmm. timoteo: the Equal Rights Amendment and trying to pass that and how influential people like Gloria Steinem were until I saw that T V show, which, you know, of course was fictionalized but using a lot of reality, you know, real stories as well. Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. timoteo: And it really opened my eyes to the importance of that time and that movement. So that when I saw that Gloria Steinem died, that was my reference point of like knowing about her and understanding her ideas. ⁓ but I don't know how many people saw that show, but it was pretty good. Gina Beavers: Mm. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. Well, I one of the that I should yeah, I'll check it out. Yeah, I mean one of the really great insightful, many insightful things that she said was that women tend to get more radical as they age. ⁓ where men get more ca like again, this is a generalization, but A lot of men get more conservative as they age, but women are more conservative in their youth because we still have some sort of power tied to our attractiveness and a potential, you know, mate and child rearing and all this stuff. But then as we get older, we get really, really pissed off. And I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like definitely, definitely true. timoteo: Yeah. Yeah, wild women don't get the blues. Gina Beavers: But I was also thinking about relationshi, you know, have you ever watched that show? ⁓ my God, what is it called? It's on Netflix. I'm sure you haven't watched it, but it's it's like a reality show where people pair. ⁓ it's the ultimatum. Have you ever watched that? So it's basically like they repair these couples who are come to the point of like, you know, commit to me or it's over. So then they put these people with other partners to see. timoteo: No. Never even heard of that one. Gina Beavers: How that all works out. And it's really funny because the one that there's the straight version and the gay version, like the, and I think the only one that I've watched is all women for the gay version. And it's like those relationships are so much more interesting and real because there is not the expectation of the marriage necessarily. It's like those real. I mean timoteo: ⁓ see I thought the gay version was a total nightmare. Like like when you're explaining I'm like, ⁓ god, the gay version sounds like a total nightmare. Gina Beavers: But the gay version, I think it it has its own, I mean, there's different pitfalls, right? But the pitfall of like the expectation of marriage, et cetera, and then on a timeline is not there. It's kind of like it's a different, so the issues are different, and but it also just seems like the people have come together over things that where the, you know, the straight version is like 25 year olds who are like, you we will get married at twenty-eight or else. And it's like Do you even like each other or it's just the expectation of anyway, it's kind of an interesting like societal, but also don't you know, don't waste your time. timoteo: I think that's really fascinating because it also speaks to like there's a lot of argument in the gay community over actually wanting marriage in the gay community because of all the sort of societal expectations of what marriage means and the sort of you know heteronormativity of getting married. And I was against it for a long time of my life. I was like, ⁓ gays don't need to get married, that's for straight people. Like, but actually, as I got older and I understood that. Gina Beavers: Mm. Totally. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Mm. timoteo: there's a practical side of marriage that the that you know the federal government gives certain benefits to people who are married and and that in a weird way it actually is a business contract in the way that it sort of you know traditionally was looked at. And so I was like, ⁓ well I can actually separate the getting married from like just whatever the sort of practical benefits of it are and not have it mean anything Gina Beavers: Mm, mm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. timoteo: ⁓ you know, like I c it can mean like my relationship can mean something really profound outside of the word marriage associated to it. You know, and so like I never saw I haven't actually seen my relationship with Corey be anything better or worse since we've been married. You know, because I don't I didn't put the kind of weight onto it that that idea of marriage has. Gina Beavers: Right, right, right. Mm. ⁓ On it. Right, right, right. timoteo: But many but many gay couples do. They get married and they think, ⁓ we have to be exactly like our mom and dad were, exactly like the the way like a heteronormative couple would be married and I think that that you can still not have to buy into all that but also still get married at the same time. Gina Beavers: Mm. Hm. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. Mm. Mm. I think the healthiest thing is that every time the way I grew up I have to be careful by the way, because I think my dad, I told you, found our podcast on YouTube. But it's like to think that you're breaking up every time you fight. I think that's the best way to live ever. No, no, no. I mean that's that's the that's how ⁓ I was raised. But no. timoteo: Mr is listening in. ⁓ Well, I actually I'd always argued for like when there was the gay marriage debate, I was always like, let's just abolish the word marriage altogether. And everyone just gets civil unions, straight people, gay people. It's just called a civil union. That's what you do. And if you want to get married in a church or you want to get married in a Buddhist temple or a synagogue, that's different. The government doesn't recognize that. Gina Beavers: ⁓ huh. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Mm. Yeah. Right, right, right. Right. timoteo: That should be like a private recognition thing. Like the state should just recognize across the board just civil unions. That's what I always thought was like the kind of two state solution of gay marriage, but you know Gina Beavers: Mm. Yeah. No, I I think that makes a lot of I mean, I also think like for a lot of couples, like straight couples maybe living together, kind of like, yeah, it becomes a very similar thing, which is like, let's get married for the reasons you were talking about, which is like the tax breaks. No. But ⁓ because once you've once you know, you have an entire generation kind of living together for years and years, it's like Yeah, it's kind of a similar ⁓ you're getting married, you're having the party, you now have a ring, your friends and family are kind of like, Okay, this might last, right? 'Cause you came out on stage and you did the whole thing and they're like, Okay. But then beyond that, it's like, you know, what it yeah, what's different about it than like living together? You know, like that's that's how I yeah. So but timoteo: Totally. And there's also the expectation though if you do have a big wedding and you do come out on the stage and you do make a big deal out of it, you're less likely to get divorced, but that's total bullshit. In fact, most of the weddings I've been to that were the most stupid, extravagant ones, they were divorced in like four years or something. Cause they had to put on a big show to show off how in love they were, but it was just, you know, like a Gina Beavers: Yeah. I know that's totally Yes. Totally, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. And sometimes those are for the family. Like I've been party to some weddings where it's like the it's really about the parents, like like their friends and their thing. And it's like the bride and groom are kind of dragged along or the bride and bride or whoever are dragged along. timoteo: Yeah. Yeah. Gina Beavers: on someone else's social, you know, all that bullshit. ⁓ my God. Ugh. timoteo: Yeah. You know, before I forget there was an there was another notable death that totally flew under the radar. Like I'd read very little about it, but I was very shocked, was Wendell Barry, the poet Wendell Barry. Do you know did you know his work? Gina Beavers: Yeah. Mm. Mm. A little bit, yeah. timoteo: Yeah. And like I I love Wendellberry because he was such a simple lyrical poet about like the beautiful, quiet aspects of life. He was sort of like a Mary Oliver type. You know, he wrote just about how beautiful it is to be alive and how wonderful nature is and how you know, he w he was very important to sort of kicking off like a lot of environmental awareness. And he was Gina Beavers: Mm. timoteo: In my estimation, kind of one of the last famous American poets who it seemed like everyone kind of knew or loved, like a Robert Frost type. and I felt like his death, which was only on I think it was on August 31st, just sort of got just sort of gotten didn't get a lot of attention. And I was a little sad about that. So I just wanted to mention Wendell Berry. And if anyone It doesn't know who he is, I recommend just Googling and reading some of his poems. And I think that if you can just not be cynical about it, I think you would actually love. I mean, some people can be some people read his poems and they're like, ⁓ they're too sweet, they're too saccharine, they're too romantic. But that's actually their strength. That's why they're so good. Gina Beavers: Hmm. Wow. Yeah, I'll have to. Yeah. That's yeah, it's definitely is August like a Yeah. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ right, totally. I'm so sorry. I think this is my. It says connecting. Are you okay? Are you there? Okay. It just said connecting issue or timoteo: But ⁓ another notable death actually was Tim Curry, which I want Yeah, ⁓ you were having trouble connecting? Okay. ⁓ whatever that happened. But I want to talk about Tim Curry because, you know, Tim Curry is someone who always scared the living bejesus out of me. Like he was always had a had a countenance and like a character that was really creepy and weird in a way that often made me feel really uncomfortable. Like one of my favorite movies is Clue, and he plays Mr. Body or the Butler or whoever. Like he plays like multiple people. Gina Beavers: Okay, go sorry. Go yeah, I think you're back. Yeah, you look Yeah. Okay. Mm. Yes. Mm-hmm. timoteo: And I he always made me feel really uncomfortable. But I love that movie because it's so campy and weird and beautiful and just bizarre. But where Tim Curry really reached out to me as a totally weird gay youth was as Frankenfurter in the Rocky Horror Picture Show, because he was really about the freaky, deekiest wack-a-doo person ever. And also made me really uncomfortable. Like the whole like trans vestite from Transylvania and like the weird like Teddy was definitely as like when I was like 14, I was like, I'm I think that's really cool, but I also am like really freaked out by it. And it was my that was really my first introduction to like I think real queerness, like not necessarily gay thing, but like queer, like very Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. timoteo: Very often, very in a strange way that was like rubbing up against everything that society didn't want me to know about or feel or think. And especially at the end where he says, Don't dream it, be it. I've thought about that throughout all of my life, in all the roles of my life of things I wanted to become or to be. You know, I would dream it, but then I would say, okay, now how do I be it? How do I embody it? Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm. Mm. timoteo: How do I get, how do I like fake it until I make it kind of idea? And I feel like for me that that initial spark came from the Tim Curry character in a Rocky Horror picture show. And and that kind of delusional, he was just so the character so like weird and delusional and and strange. And I j there's something about that that just sort of set me off in a wonderful way. Gina Beavers: Mm. Of course. That's so. Mm-hmm. timoteo: And so when I saw that Tim Curry had died, a lot of those feelings of being 14, 15, 16 years old, and just discovering all that came flooding back. And so I wanted to remember Tim Curry in that way. Gina Beavers: Like think about how huge that I like that character and that identity for like for you and for so many p like just one movie, one character could just like explode someone's entire like sense of possibility in the world and like it's so huge. I mean, I think that's why people like Keith is a theater was in theater and would go to Rocky Horror all the time and like, you know, ⁓ I don't know, it's a big he was way more upset about Tim Curry than he was Dolly Barner. But you know, like I think that there he that one role was such a gateway for so many people. I don't know, to discover how they were different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. timoteo: Well, 'cause also at that time culture didn't have those kinds of voices. Culture didn't have those kind of images. And so when you saw that, you could immediately calm onto it. Like or you knew it was for you. Like, you know, the first time I heard like Morrissey, the first time I was introduced to like Smiths, I was like, ⁓ there's a secret language here that only I can understand because I'm in because I'm different in that weird way. Gina Beavers: Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm, mmm, mmm. timoteo: And it just becomes a lifeline to you when you feel completely isolated in the world. And that's what that character brought to. Gina Beavers: Yeah. That's wonderful. Yeah, that's huge. Yeah. timoteo: Yeah, icons. Gina Beavers: I gone so ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. How's it going? timoteo: So anyway, the fall semester has begun for me, Gina. Like class is in full effect. It's great. I started my painting class this week and that was really interesting. We were talking about painting, using the body and using the breath. I started the BFA thesis class that I'm part of with a bunch of students I'm advising. We talked about carving out your own time as an artist in a busy life in a busy world and developing like a thesis project idea and what you know what that means, how to s you know, sort s sort of becoming a professional artist and what that means. And I started my drawing class and my two-dimensional design class. And so those are both sort of foundational classes. So it's a lot of classes, three full classes. The BFA thesis one is like just some advising work with some students. But I mean last week was like full, full on at at the City University of New York. Gina Beavers: Wow. Wonderful. How many students are you advising for BFA? Like timoteo: Yeah. I'm only directly advising three, but we have upwards twenty plus who are getting their BFA at Lehman College. And it's a wide range of different studies. Like some kids are like really into like, you know, anime and comic stuff. Some are into, you know, digital artwork, magazines, print media kind of work. Some are into fashion-oriented things, some traditional drawing, traditional painting. Like we Gina Beavers: Hmm. ⁓ okay. Mm. Mm. timoteo: We've got a wide-ranging rambling program with lots of different interests and and really different voices. Like our student body is wonderfully diverse and everyone's really coming at it from all these different directions and ideas. That's one of the things that makes the City University of New York such a great university, but also Lehman College Bronx has got so much of that like Bronx diversity and excitement just like bursting out of every Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. timoteo: scene. So it's a there's a lot of energy there, which is cool. Gina Beavers: Awesome. Yeah, it's really exciting. Yeah, with all the shows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. timoteo: And then of course the fall season with all the shows are happening too. I'll talk about that in a minute 'cause there's some shows I wanna talk about and promote, but but tell us about your trip to Ohio. So we started talking about that last year. Gina Beavers: ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I ⁓ Zachary Armstrong is based in Dayton, Ohio. He has like a couple of ma like massive studios there. He has a house there. And he speaking of a house, he re assembled a project that he had done a number of years ago in China, which is this like actually is all made up of paintings. It's two stories and he was able to install it in the Weston Gallery in Cincinnati. So he had Rao Geneva, Trey Abdella, and I like went out to be part of this panel. in, you know, I know him through yeah, through we had a we have a gallery in common. ⁓ we timoteo: How do you know Zachary Arms? Like how do you kn like was he in New York at one time? Gina Beavers: all you know, a couple galleries in common. We had gone to Italy on this trip with a group of people drawing for charity. So we met. Yeah. So and there's a real sense of like Americana and like some similar interests in terms of our work and also surface. He uses only encaustic in his work, which is really amazing. ⁓ his whole process, he has a massive like hot plate. I mean like a massive like table size thing with cans of encaustic like on it. Like it's insane. Yeah. So part of being out there was like a wonderful day at his studio hanging out with everyone, just like talking about art like hardcore, like so fun. I was unfortunately like halfway through this, like being really sick. So it was all through a haze of like cold medicine and like extremely like congested like hell. ⁓ then I spent a day with Trey and Raul just like going to museums in in Cincinnati, which was really fun. We went to the Cincinnati Art Museum, which had several amazing pieces, including two murals, one by Saul Steinberg, one by Miro, like these huge, like on canvas, but like mural sized like permanent murals. ⁓ so many good things in their collection. It was there, yeah, that was really fun. we went to a book fair. ⁓ yeah, I have my went to a book fair. There's Rebecca Morgan on the cover of this like this anthology of comics. They bought a bunch of stuff. So ⁓ it was just a really it was really great. I wish I hadn't been sick, but ⁓ the also the curator timoteo: ⁓ yeah. Did you ever try the chili? Did you ever try the Cincinnati chili? Gina Beavers: No, I went though to the like greatest Italian restaurant right down Cincinnati downtown Cincinnati near our hotel that had gluten-free parpadell, like all the pasta was could be made like really well gluten-free. And I was like, I want to come I'm like fly back to Cincinnati to have that. It was so good. ⁓ the curator, Michael Godson, ⁓ at the Weston is really fantastic. timoteo: Right. Gina Beavers: He's curated at, you know, the Wexner. He's been a curator at the Wexner. He's he was an artist. He ha he's done a little bit of everything in the art world, which I think, on top of how brilliant, intelligent he is, also has this perspective of having worked in every possible capacity, which makes him really like empathetic and interesting and like great. ⁓ and he was mentioning that the show up opening in October is Paul's show. Paul Sapuya is opening the next. Yeah. So that was really timoteo: Yes, Paul. In fact, Paul told me for he was listening to our last episode and he called me up and like, you know, I'm gonna be in a show at the Weston Art Gallery. I'm like, how is it that everyone I know all of a sudden is like showing at the Weston or doing something at the Weston Art Gallery? And then he explained to me about the curator who he, you know, do some other things who's come in and like infused a lot of energy into it. Gina Beavers: Yeah. I know. Yeah. Mm. ⁓ Yeah, he's really great. yeah, so it was really just like fun, fun to hang out with artists. Also fun to go see shows with Trey and Raul where we have these like commonalities in our work. So we could go see like art together and and have some similar influences. timoteo: Did you did you already know Trey and Raoul or did you meet them for the first time with this? Gina Beavers: No, I've known I mean I've known Raul. I think we were in Greater New York together a million years ago. and then Trey I've known I've hung out with him a couple of times, like at op you know, after party kind of I think. Yeah, I definitely know Trey. but it was just fun. timoteo: So were you all on a panel together discussing work general? ⁓ Gina Beavers: Yeah, I think it was horror wonder in relationship to Zach's work. And Michael was sort of saying he sort of split the wonder is sort of Zach and ⁓ Raul, and the horror was me and Trey. So but yeah, I mean it's just this thing of like how diverse our interests are in the art world, our influences, and then to be lined up with some people where your influences are very similar in terms of like the kinds of things you make, the ways that you work with materials, you know, the artists that you look at to like be able to go to see art with like, you know, it's a rare thing, I think. Cause like we have lots of friends who are artists, but it's like our our influences don't always line up in that way. So that was like a really fun, yeah. A really cool experience. And To see all of Zack's new work. ⁓ my gosh. So ambitious, so huge, like so amazing. Like this he has this insane grasshopper painting that's like all encaustic, but it's like massive grasshopper. ⁓ so much good stuff. So it was just great. It was just timoteo: But one of the one of the most fun things is to go to a museum with other artists and just discuss the work or you know, critique the work or, you know, rip it a new asshole or praise it or whatever. Or even like one one of my favorite birthday things is I I try to go to the Met with some friend. Usually I go with TM Davey and we spend like the whole day there and we just Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Mm. timoteo: literally like critique every great painting. We give it a good critique. You know, we're like, what's going on in this? Is it working? Is it not working? What do we love about it? And and that there's something that's just really super fun about the having an art relationship. And my husband Corey is like that too because he's a trained artist. And so we when whenever we go to museums or whatever, all we do is basically like critique all the work that's in front of us just for the fun of it. Gina Beavers: That's awesome. Yeah, to ⁓ that must be so fun. Yeah. Yeah. I was one thing at the Cincinnati Art Museum when we were going through there. They had this amazing Grant Wood. I don't know how familiar you are with Grant Wood's work or how with the with George Washington in the boat behind and the three elderly women. I I'll post it on our so they had that and then in on the same wall they had Horace Pippen. It's like the Christmas painting. And then they had Andrew Wyatt, like an interior. And those paintings were all made within ten years of each like those artists, American artists, within 10 years of each other, those paintings. And I just felt like it was such a perfect illustration of how diverse are. our styles are, you know, like stylistically or how there wasn't like a movement, especially at that in that era, but these are all great artists in their own rights. They just have such distinctive perspectives and language. And, you know, ⁓ I'm like, no wonder we're kind of, you know, scattered or a little bit less I don't know, a little more all over the map stylistically or individual. timoteo: As we've always been. Gina Beavers: Well yeah, are we all at this idea of individuality or this idea of freedom or who knows? I don't know exactly what or just like because we're not a great art historically a great because we're also influenced by outsider art and folk art and you know, we didn't have these great art institutions kind of from the get. It's like I don't know. I think there's like a wildness there that it was interesting to see. timoteo: I had a crazy experience with Horace Pippen once because he actually is from the next town over from where I live. So he's from Goshen, New York, and and this is like the next town over from us. And I didn't know that. But when I was in college, I had a teacher who was talking about Gina Beavers: ⁓ my gosh. timoteo: Horace Pippen and introduced Horace Pippen's work to our class. This was at MyU. And I had never heard of him, never totally discovered him in this class, and thought he was like really interesting, fascinating, you know, folk artist at the time. And one day in that time period, I was driving through Goshen and I saw a road sign that said Horace Pippen was like born in this house or lived in this house. And I was like, What? Horace Pippen lives lived right down the road from me. And I remember being like totally that was like a one of those weird moments when you're younger and like art becomes like real or like art becomes a like hits closer to home sort of thing. And ⁓ yeah. Gina Beavers: ⁓ my gosh. ⁓ it's so cool. ⁓ so cool. ⁓ wow. So now when I see those like interiors with like the wood burning stove and like upstate New York. Wow. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a great trip. Gave me a lot to think about and like just a fun context to so many great, like enthusiastic. timoteo: Just right here in the Hudson Valley. Gina Beavers: artists and like actually some listeners who came up to me who are like, you know, listen to the podcast, yeah, in Ohio. It's just cool. Yeah. So timoteo: Really? ⁓ that's fun. It really always shocks me when people listen to the podcast. Like I'm like, You do? Really? ⁓ God, but I got Gina Beavers: ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ we did have a we had a listener question. Did you wanna discuss? The question was just basically like what do you do when a gallery closes? timoteo: I'm right now. What was it? Yeah. Gina Beavers: Like how do you go about finding a new finding a new timoteo: Well, first of all first of all you're fucked. Gina Beavers: ⁓ wait, yeah. Okay. Well let's talk about that. But I just I just I had one more thought about Ohio and then maybe we go there. one okay, so we we did our talk. ⁓ my gosh, did you hear that? I hit the microphone. ⁓ we did our talk and then we had a question and answers section and somebody asked like the most intense question like I think I've ever actually I know who what Liz. timoteo: Ha ha. Or you're not. Okay. Yeah. Gina Beavers: I keep bringing it up. I'm sure she's so annoyed. But she said, and I I wish I had like written it down because the way she asked it. ⁓ do you like yourself more now? ⁓ than like just through your life of making your work and being an artist, do you like yourself more now than you, you know? ⁓ which I thought was really timoteo: Then when What is the hell does that question even mean? Like do you like your personality more? Do you like your spirit and soul more? Do you like your I don't I I need more specificity what that actually means. Gina Beavers: I think Yeah. No, but that was the question. So it's like you kind of have to read into it. And I was like super defensive. Like, why? Who have you talked to? Like have I and Trey was really funny because he was like, Of course not. Like I love myself way more when I I liked who I was when I was a kid a lot more than I do now. Like now it's like hell on earth, you know, like ⁓ but I just thought that was a really interesting question to ask artists. Like, ⁓ yeah. timoteo: Ha ha ha. That really makes me sad though because I Fray's answer makes me sad because Gina Beavers: Ha ha ha. timoteo: I wish I loved myself as a kid. Like I hated myself as a kid. Like I hated being a kid. I was a terrible kid. Like I felt wrong. I felt weird. I felt stupid. I felt out. I felt like I couldn't do anything. I felt like I like I hated pretty much every single thing about being a kid. And I would say now that I'm like an adult who has agency and has ⁓ you know Gina Beavers: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ No. No. ⁓ timoteo: job and and pr career and and a partner and like I I'm I like my life and myself so much more. I feel like I'm much more you know. So when I hear someone say they like themselves as a kid more, it makes me sad only because I'm like, well they must have really had a nice childhood then. Gina Beavers: Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's also, I mean, I think I probably like myself as a kid a lot, but then as a teenager, that's when stuff went it just went off the rails. Like I feel like that's when I was like so insecure and shy and like couldn't always doubting myself and like no confidence and no backbone and the silent girl in class and like all of that and like nerd. timoteo: Mm-hmm. Gina Beavers: and theater nerd and just like layers of ⁓ so I think for me like being an art yeah, I mean very similar to what you're saying, the agency thing, like being an artist having timoteo: I got better as as a teenager, I got better. Like I felt like when I became a teenager, I was like, I'm into cool stuff that a lot of people aren't. Like I like I s I kind of could see that I Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. timoteo: What what made me hate myself as a kid, then when I was in high school, I was like, ⁓ this is like I actually think it's kinda cool that I'm gay. I think it's kinda cool that I like the cure, the Smiths, or like, you know, Bauhaus or whatever, weird music and like I make weird art and, you know, dress funky and like I I that I started to come in more into my own in as a teenager. And even though I was still insecure and everything, I certainly like myself as a teenager, I think, better. Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. timoteo: And I I I did it again. Gina Beavers: Better than as a yeah. I think it also started to build for me because I moved back to the US when I was 14 and went to high school and went from a class of like 30 kids to a class of 500. And I was just telling someone yesterday, like, I didn't wear sneakers. Like in Europe in the 80s, like we didn't wear I wore like loafer. I would never wear a sneaker like in life. Like timoteo: You wouldn't bear. Right. Gina Beavers: to school or anything like that. And I remember being like, everyone's wearing sneaker. You know, like things like that that were so dumb, but like destabilizing for me. Like, where am I from? Where do I belong? Like who I was I was such a freak. Yeah. I felt like a freak. Not in a good way. Like it just like an outsider. But I think like being an artist, having shows, making my work gave me confidence in a way that, you know, I do think timoteo: You're a culture. Gina Beavers: Their pitfalls to success personally, like soul pitfalls to like I mean, we could go on and on about all of the chaotic, like kind of famous artists and stuff that happens in that zone, you know? Like in terms of being a good person, right? I mean timoteo: Yeah, well, because, you know, like anything, the more well known you become or the more high stakes your career is, you know, mo money, mo problem kind of thing. And, you know, you have to I mean, yeah, that's why there's often you know, there are often people sometimes in at the height of success, they like quit the art world or they quit, you know, they're like, I this is it's asking too much of me as like a person in a deep way. Gina Beavers: Mm. Yes, exactly. Yes. Mm. Right. The stress of it. But also the like the stress, the lack of time for other people, the like potential sycophants blowing smoke up your butt. Like, I'm not saying that that's ever happened to me, but like you see it in other people where it's just like I can do no wrong, everything I you know, so to like yeah, I think that there I'm I think that might have been an element, I don't know, to her question or that's what I read into it a little bit, but ⁓ yeah, which is interesting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's ask everybody that at every panel from now on. No, I'm just I'm just kidding. anyway. timoteo: ⁓ right. I mean it's it's definitely a provocative question, I think, for sure. Definitely But what was the other question? What what do you do when your gallery closes? Gina Beavers: ⁓ yeah, what do you do when your gallery closes? Like how how do you navigate like finding a new gallery or I mean but it's kind of an age old question of just finding a gallery period, I guess. Like timoteo: I've been with many a gallery that have closed. And I would not say it's ever been good for me. be because I mean it depends upon the the the situation. Like like I like I had said w the last gallery I was like fully represented by, Fitzroy Gallery, was doing quite well. And I had a great show that Gina Beavers: Mm. Yeah. Mm. timoteo: pretty much almost sold out and got reviews in multiple places. And I was felt like, wow, like I'm really starting to like arrive here and and the gallery is really working for me. And it felt like, you know, things had really kind of come together. And then within like six months, due to multiple circumstances, the gallery closed. And Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm. timoteo: that just kind of took the wind out of the sail that I was sort of like floating in. And I and I started to do some other studio visits with some other galleries that were interested in me. But then two of them closed within that period of time. So it's like it was you know, it was just sometimes it just I I I hesitate to say it was like a string of bad luck because I feel like in many respects Gina Beavers: Yeah. Hm, interesting. timoteo: ⁓ you know, I've had at mul multiple shows since then and whatnot. I worked with Ashes Ashes for a bunch of years, had a show in LA, show in New York with him, and he closed. And he never really represented artists per se, but I did work with him for a while. And him not cl him closing and not really announcing it, Gina Beavers: Mm. Yeah. Mm. Mm. timoteo: And Fitzroy closing and not really announcing it, I also think are not good for the artists. I think the gallery has to announce that they're closing in a public way. So then other galleries can be like, ⁓ they're closing. Maybe I should look at their roster and maybe work with two people. I think that that often happens, but if a gallery just kind of quietly closes over a period of time, then you just kind Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm. Mm. timoteo: disappear into the ether. So there's no sense of like urgency that like, ⁓ I you know, because I I can mention many, many instances where a gallery would close and announce it and then within like two weeks the you know, half of those artists are now showing like different galleries, you know. I mean maybe less and less maybe less and less now because there's fewer and fewer galleries, but but I do feel like ⁓ that Gina Beavers: Mm. Totally. Mm-hmm. ⁓ really? ⁓ wow. Well that's encouraging. Yeah. Yeah. Right. timoteo: that often is the case. ⁓ but but I do but I think that to go back to like what do you do when your gallery closes, I think the first thing you do is you kind of, you know, panic about it because that that was your main maybe one of your main lifelines out into the world. But then you have to really pull your bootstraps up and start panning the pavement again. I mean, you know, building on your network, trying to Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. timoteo: you know, tell people the gallery closed, like, do you know you know, do you think I should approach another gallery? What you know, what what do you think I should do? I mean, you gotta get back into the mindset. It's like, you know, it's almost like as if you get dumped by a by a boyfriend or girlfriend. You you know, you're back in the dating pool. You gotta go back on hinge. You gotta go back, you know, meet people. Gina Beavers: Mm. Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I know. It's like, no, totally. But just like being overt about like please would you, you know, invite inviting people for a studio visit. Also think like I think I said this before, but like going to the galleries that you like where you would like to show, go to all of their openings and like hang around. That's like I've always found that to work. timoteo: Sucked. I don't think anybody likes it. But Yeah. Well what I would do too is I would I would invite people to my studio who I liked and I respected who are either like curators or writers or other artists and I'd be like, Who do you think I should approach? ⁓ hi kitten. You know, like like who like who like what gallery like you've seen my work now, like who do you think I could work with or should work with? You know, and could you make a recommendation, you know, to them? Gina Beavers: Mm-mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. timoteo: And they were often like, ⁓ well, you know, you really need a gallery that has a sense of humor but is also very serious. You know, because I feel like my work has a sense of humor, but it's also very serious. And but that would always end up lead us down like you know, to a brick wall because Gina Beavers: ⁓ huh. ⁓ okay. Serious about yeah. timoteo: You know, actually try to sit down and think of a gallery that is a little ridiculous and has a sense of humor, but also is kind of serious and has a rigorous academic side and actually kind of doesn't really exist. So that's it's been a little it's been a little bit of a struggle. ⁓ but Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I think it's yeah. I think that is just a pitfall. I mean, since I don't know who, like Mike Kelly, like where where has that idea of seriousness around a sense of humor gone? Like those two things it existing side by side, it feels like people 'cause of I feel that with my own work, like in my own kind of identity, is that there's this trap of like kind of lack timoteo: That's it. Gina Beavers: you know, when you play with sort of humor or lack of seriousness in the work, then people sort of read that into you as a person as well. And it's like, but yeah, I'm actually kind of serious about the lack of seriousness. You know, like it's like people can't have can't hold both those I mean, I am kind of ridiculous. We just did a photo shoot in our in your studio yesterday. It was we did some ridiculous stuff. So like, but also that doesn't mean that I can't Like put my nose to the grindstone and be serious or not embarrass you know what? ⁓ shoot, it's frozen. trying to reconnect. Make sure you have a stable internet connection. timoteo: Yeah, we're totally we're totally ridiculous people. Yeah. There's ⁓ we lost the connection for a minute. Alright, I'm feeling stable now. Yeah, it just it i it is a pit ball because people either want Gina Beavers: Yeah. Okay, stable. Don't get too stable. No. But you know, like I think people have an i timoteo: They either want they either want to pin you into being like a ridiculous, sort of unserious artist or a very serious, sober artist. And I feel like if you're trying to straddle between the two, it's hard to pin down. And so you just have to wait also for the right gallery to find you too. Like that's sort of what I've been doing is just like, okay, I don't really know what the right gallery is. So I'm waiting for someone to be like, ⁓ Gina Beavers: Go ahead. Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. timoteo: I've looked at Tim Hull's work now, I've looked at his C V I looked at his career, I've looked at what he's doing, I've gone to his studio and I think he's great now. I want to work with him. You know, I'm just like like sometimes in dating you have to do that, you have to fucking give up on like trying to like stalk somebody down, like, you know, find someone. And then the minute you kind of give up, maybe the right person is like can see you more fully. Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Ha ha ⁓ Mm-hmm. That's interesting. Yeah. Stop holding on so tight. But I also think it in the way that dating is like all these people who have like a list of like these are the all the attributes I want in a partner. And it's like, that's not like how life works. Like you're never gonna find someone, you know. So same thing with galleries. It's like you can end up in like unexpected places that really work. You know, like when I first started, like, kind of going to Clifton Benevento's shows and like I mean I don't know why I did that other than I really liked Michael Clifton and and I it felt like serious in this way. But like if you looked at their roster, it was way more there's the sickness. ⁓ it's back. ⁓ but it was way more like conceptually rigorous and kind of Like you wouldn't necessarily put me in a gallery with Zach Kitnik and like some of the people that they were representing, you know, on the face of it. So it was like sometimes it's also just about the people and who you vibe with, whether or not I don't know, 'cause it's like you can I remember at one time somebody was like, you know, look at a roster and whatever kind of work they don't have, they need something like that. Like the because they they're hitting all these different kinds of collectors or something. But now I feel like there are galleries that hit the same kind of work a hundred times. You know, like, or they have 20 people on their roster hitting the same notes. Like, so I don't, I don't know. I don't know. It's possible to overthink it. You should probably just cast a really wide net. if you're in a city, what do you do if you're in a city that doesn't have as many galleries? I don't know. You should if you want to. timoteo: Yeah. Yeah, well in that case you have to make your own opportunities or really do cast the water net. But I think at the end of the day for me like for me though at this point, I'm just interested in a gallery that wants wants to work with me and thinks that my work is interesting and has, you know, more potential and is doing cool stuff and, you know, p pushing the dialogue and painting and that's what's interested in me. Like I Gina Beavers: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. timoteo: I don't because I don't you don't know what's gonna be the right or wrong gallery on the face of it. It's very hard to tell. So you just have to trust the process. Just trust the process. Gina Beavers: No, no, no. It's hard to know. And this to be fair, yeah. And also if somebody is seeing something, I mean it it does have to be sort of a two way street. Like they do, you can't force yourself on anyone. ⁓ I can't as Bonnie Rait saying, I can't make you love me if you won't. ⁓ but yeah, I don't ⁓ timoteo: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Gina Beavers: Sometimes you just have to try. I do think maybe this is a more harrowing time potentially to find that perfect matchup that's really gonna work because a lot of things aren't working right now. It's like timoteo: Yeah. ⁓ Well what does really working mean either? I mean, like the like most artists just wanna have a show and then maybe they wanna sell or mi then maybe they wanna review, but like you know, so you have to figure out what working means for you, you know, and be happy with Gina Beavers: Yeah. Right. Right, right, right. Yeah. Right. And it's not always possible to tell that from social media or the internet. Like you probably I do think like one on one or like meeting people and seeing if you have so, ⁓ maybe a couple trips to a big city that's close to you to go to some openings and try to meet people and I don't know, it can't I don't know if it can all be virtual, but maybe it can. I don't know. timoteo: What I sort of wish you could do in a way is like I wish it was still kinda cool to like go drop off slides at a gallery. Like you know. Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean you can I think you should always ask what's the worst that's gonna happen though? They're just gonna be like they're just gonna be like, yeah, not respond, but that's okay. They weren't responding yesterday either when you didn't ask them. So it's like timoteo: Yeah, they're just gonna say no or ignore you, which is But I don't know. I do think it's I don't think you should ask if it's not appropriate. Like if you make paintings of trees and that gallery only shows like, you know, minimalist art, like I don't think they're gonna respond to to your like inquiry about your paintings of trees. Like I d I think you need to still be a little realistic about like what what the gallery is kind of about, what the vibe of the gallery is about before you would go and like approach them, but Gina Beavers: Yeah yeah yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think you should do a little homework and I'm I'm assuming that the person asking this has been represented by galleries, so they have a sense of it, you know. I would never ⁓ you know. But I mean, I do think a little bit of desperation early in the career and like a little bit of embarrassing yourself is not the worst thing that can happen. Like it's okay. Like if it's something that you really want, you know, you gotta get your footing. So it's like you've gotta kind of timoteo: Yeah. Yeah. And if it's not if it's not something you really want, then when your gallery closes, use that as the golden opportunity to quit and go do something else. Gina Beavers: Take a risk. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I think it's yeah, I don't know. timoteo: There was actually another reader or listener question that I don't know if it came to the to our Instagram or to my personal Instagram, but someone asked me about the idea of like wasting time in the studio. They they were like, Do you ever feel like you're wasting time in the studio and is that okay? Like if you're not meaning like if you're in the studio, like not working in the studio, if you're just like hanging out or whatever. Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm. Mm. timoteo: Like s you know, smoking a doobie or whatever. I don't know what they meant, but but ⁓ but but the I I thought that was interesting question because first of all it's like what the hell does that even mean? Like I I mean aren't we kind of wasting time in the studio, so to speak? But but there's something beautiful about wasting time in the studio. Think of Susan Rothbard. Gina Beavers: ⁓ huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a Mm. Yeah, I mean it could mean what? ⁓ yeah, sorry, you got cut off. Can you say it again? timoteo: I think Rothenberg like hanging out in her couch and just being like sometimes you just need to like sit in the couch and read a book and then inspiration might strike you while you're just like sitting there reading a book in your couch. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think she was a good one too. She was the one that who had said, try to go every day, even if you're just going for an hour, just to like be there in that headspace, even if you're not working. You know, she was the real but I you also have to look at the way that she worked, which was much more like an abstract expressionist where where right, looking at it, which I always found like in grad school timoteo: Right. Little noodling here, noodling there. Gina Beavers: I was like, I can't do this. If this is what's required of me, I'll never be able to do this. Because too stressful, total anxiety. Why they all ended up, I think I've said this before, but why they all ended up like drunk drunk on the side of the road? Because, like, how what do you mean you start with a blank canvas and you make a mark and then you make another mark? And of course you're gonna, but obviously sitting there. timoteo: It's got both. Alcoholics. Yeah. Gina Beavers: Deciding that is not wasting time. That's all part of the process, right? I mean, what what is wasting time in the studio? Sometimes you're working on something and you know that you it's just like a rote thing. It's just like this is just not gonna go anywhere. And this is just I'm just filling in time right now. I know that this is not a thing. Like I know, but then timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: Some somebody will walk into your studio and be like, I love this. And it's like, okay, so maybe ⁓ this is really like why do we timoteo: Totally. Well, and you and I are very process based artists too. Like you and I kind of build build you know, the picture from either image we've already had or sort of, you know, working on a process where someone like, you know, Susan Rothenberg just kind of comes in and like noodles for five minutes and then can sit and read a book and then, you know, gets the feeling again. Like I I can't really work in that kind of way either. I do find that to be a little stressful. I like to go in and sort of just Gina Beavers: Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. timoteo: work on my project that I'm working on. But there are definitely days where I go into the studio and I'm just looking at the stuff and just sitting there and being in the presence of the work and trying to see in a new way. Or or even sometimes I go in the studio and I write like I have like I was inspired by Anne Tru Anne Truitt with her day book. And I have like a little Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. timoteo: Day book in my studio where sometimes I'll just sit and I'll write about what I'm feeling or thinking in the studio. That so it has nothing to do with like the work per se or making the work, but it's just about reflecting on like, well, how do I feel about everything right now? In a kind of poetic and romantic way. And that's kind of Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. timoteo: I don't know if that's like waste and it's not wasting time because I don't I don't really believe that that's true, that you can be wait any time you're in the studio you're not wasting time. How could that be possible? Gina Beavers: No. I don't I don't think so. I don't think so either. I will like I do I am somebody who can speak to this idea of like prop being propelled through projects to the point being so busy that the idea of sort of sitting in the studio seems insane. Like you know, like I used to in Brooklyn I would go to people's studios where they had like plants and like timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: a comfortable seating area and like it was very humane and like I used to think like what's wrong with me? Like why don't I have why is it so just set up to just like I did have ⁓ a little IKEA one bed thing that I could pull out, like a little solo futon that I would pull out to just like nap because I would get done with school and have I would like need to reset by taking a nap when I got to my studio. So I'd like to lie on there with this big heavy comforter and like snuggle in my little solo bed. But I didn't. timoteo: That's also 'cause you're more of a workshop artist, which I'm a little bit like that too. Like like we we ⁓ we s part kind of operate our studios like in a workshop like atmosphere where some artists run their operate their studios like a like a hangout, hook a bar, like a you know, just like ⁓ you know, like a little bit more of like a casual like you know, like they're just noodling on stuff or whatever and Gina Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right, right, right, right. But that's also like a time thing. That's what I'm trying to say is like I was so propelled through various projects so quickly that it had the its own like kind of propulsion and there wasn't a ton of time to stop and consider, which is like bad in a way. It's good in a way, but it's also bad. I mean, it's great in the sense that it's like you don't doubt yourself as much because you're just like propelled. But it's bad in the sense that you don't doubt yourself as much and you also don't get as much time to like consider what's hanging on the wall and like how could I make that better or how could I, you know, so like, you know, having a little more time lately, I've been able to be like put something up on the wall and just be like, I think that's done, but then like a week later be like, nope, it wasn't done. I hate that corner, I gotta fix it. timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: You know, so it's like you know, it's two sides of a coin. It's like it's like having time in the studio gives you that perspective and like maybe feels like you're wasting a little more time, but it's also good. Yeah, ⁓ I don't know. Yeah. You're never wasting yeah. I mean, we do live in this hyper productive society, right? It's like I remember I took a ⁓ I was an anthropology major and undergrad and I took this class on personal history and ⁓ what was it called? But there were these wonderful teachers who had worked for the WPA. They were a couple and they had gone out and taken oral history ⁓ oral histories. timoteo: Yeah. Food for thought. Gina Beavers: They had taken oral histories from people all over the South, ⁓ mid Midwest, all of these Americans during the WPA. And they taught this class at UVA, and you had to keep a personal you know, like a personal history of your days. And they were like, and this is the 90s, they're like the number one thing is everybody says, every single one of you said how you felt like you weren't being productive, productive enough. And it's like so, you know. I mean, of course we're college students, so and it was like a pretty competitive atmosphere. Good students at UVA. So it's like this kind of like type A, like, I'm not doing enough. I'm not but it's also the culture. It's probably also very American to be like, You need to work. You better work, you know? but yeah. timoteo: I mean, I admittedly, I do have to admit that I have that mentality. Like I optimize my work time so tightly because because I live in two places, because I have a full time teaching job, you know, I need to make sure that the times that I am in the studio are Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. timoteo: you know, quote unquote as productive as possible, meaning I'm propelling my projects forward. Like when I'm, you know, and also like when I'm in the East Village, I have I have to be work, you know, that's where I make my drawings. So like I make sure when I'm there, I'm I have something to do. And and so I do find that I don't I I I am uncomfortable with the traditional idea of quote, wasting time in the studio. But I also realize that Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. timoteo: I just need to all you know, I need to optimize my studio time because I'm pulled in many different directions. So Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I think a lot of people are, whether they're parents or you know, like people modern life has a lot of stuff, you know. But I I also think I still haven't read it, but isn't this a little bit about the artist way too? Like all of these ways that you're you're it's like you're not making your work, but you're you're creating an atmosphere to make work or you're creating a timoteo: Something to figure out. Gina Beavers: These like artist dates, right? I mean that I just read just what I picked. timoteo: Yeah, well I I know it sounds cliche. I it's it's one of the most cliche things to say about an artist, but I think it's actually true, which is why it's cliche, is that I'm always working. You know, like if I'm watching a TV show, I'm still thinking about the images and how they might relate to my work, or I'm taking a walk somewhere, I'm thinking about my work or what you know, something inspires me. Like I just feel like I'm Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah Mm, mhm, mhm. timoteo: Being an artist means you're always working because you cause everything is inspiring in the world and everything you're doing is inspiring your creativity and your being. And yeah, so it's the artist way. I mean, every so that's why you're never actually kind of never wasting time no matter what you're doing, if you look at it in that through that lens. Gina Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. In that sense. Yeah. It's funny though because I remember Yeah. timoteo: Good. Well I'm glad that people I'm glad Gina that people have been asking us questions that we can answer for them. Gina Beavers: Yeah, for sure. ⁓ my God, we're already like, ⁓ we didn't even talk about so wait, what are you going to see this week? timoteo: ⁓ fall shows, yes. ⁓ I'm gonna go no, that's good. I'm gonna go see ⁓ I mean a shit ton of stuff because I mean Wednesday and Thursday are the serious days. Like it seems like Wednesday is big Tribeca Day and Thursday is big Chelsea Day, although there is some kind of like overlap hither and thith, but ⁓ so my Wednesday like top picks. I'm just really doing like top picks. Gina Beavers: Did I just jump did I just jump into that? Did I just jump into that? I'm Mm. Okay. Mm-hmm. timoteo: ⁓ really want to see Claire Oswald at Broadway. really want to see Alex Vernett at Chapter. Also Mark McKnight at Klaus at the Klaus Funding Sagan, Alice Tippett at Nickel Bouchain, Michael Asif at Post Times, Peter Schulte at McKenzie, and Christopher K. Ho at Ellie Rhine's gallery. Those are my big Wednesday like mussies. Gina Beavers: ⁓ yeah. No. Yeah, ⁓ Ellie Rhines no longer No, I was gonna say Ellie Rhines no longer fifty six Henry. Now the gallery is named after Ellie, which is cool. timoteo: Any of those ring a bell? That's right. Which is which is really nice because I feel like this sometimes the mo one of the most foolish things the gallery can do is name their gallery after a specific location. Because unless you've bought that building, you will be moving. You will have to move. Like are like doesn't that ever occur to anyone? There's so many galleries that are named after the location that I'm like, what haven't haven't any of you ever learned that like Gina Beavers: Mm, mm hmm. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. You're gonna move. Yeah. timoteo: you're gonna move within a year or two or you know? And and so I'm I'm I'm glad that that Ellie Rines now like Ellie Rhine's gallery because she moved from fifty six Henry Gina Beavers: Ha ha ha. Mm. timoteo: And, you know, clearly, you know, doesn't want to s use the same the ⁓ the location as her name. ⁓ yeah. So anyway, I I'm really excited about that because I love I've loved fifty six Henry and excited to see what Ellie's gonna, you know, be putting together now that she's in Tribeca. I don't know if she's still keeping some of that Henry Street spaces or not. That I don't know, but yeah. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Yeah, ⁓ that'll be interesting. Yeah. ⁓ I'm a little bit out of it because I'm leaving in a week for the headlands. So I'm like, I'm gonna go out Thursday night, go to ⁓ my gosh, here we go. My brain is just like fizzling. But March Gallery has a new space, so Anna and I are gonna go check that out and like ⁓ Marion Boskey has a couple great shows. Dora Jaridi and the Haas Brothers are opening. I'm definitely gonna go there, try to hit a couple. I got a message from Howard Schwartzberg, who sent me he his show is opening, but it's opening in October. ⁓ that's October, at ⁓ the University Art Museum in Albany. So if anybody's up there October 3rd. His show is opening and he's a big fan of the podcast, so I thought I would mention it. He sent it to me. Also, my friend Deborah's show is opening Friday night. ⁓ I'm I really want to go, but it's like one of those things where you're like packing and trying to get I know this her show is opening at McBride Dylan. timoteo: Where is that where is that at? 'Cause there's n not a lot of shit on Friday that I saw on the list. Gina Beavers: On Friday night. Deborah Cartwright, who I've mentioned before. yeah, so she's I also saw there's like a ⁓ Minnie Evans who's she's were at the Whitney. That show is opening Wednesday night. So that's that's cool. Anyway, those are just kind of the random things that I've scrawled down. ⁓ not random, not random, but just like timoteo: ⁓ yeah, Deborah Cartwright, sure, definitely. Well my Yeah. Yeah. Gina Beavers: Ska you know, scattered far and wide from Albany to like the lower downtown. But timoteo: So I have also Thursday shows to recommend though for September tenth. So on Thursday there are some Tribeca shows. So Willia Kulick is opening at Bureau and Selena Kimball is opening at Ulterior Gallery. So those are two that I wanna see that are down in Tribeca. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Mm. Mm, mm. Yeah. timoteo: And then Story Gallery at One Rivington has their inaugural group show, which is also on Thursday. It's called Live at the End of the World. So I want to swing into that. But then in Tribeca, I mean sorry, then in Chelsea, I really want to go see Settle for a Good Fantasy at Luring Augustine, which is an interesting group show. ⁓ Lighty Churchman at Matthew Marks. Gotta go see Lighty Churchman. Love Lighty. Gina Beavers: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ cool. Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. That's right, Lady Churchman. Awesome. timoteo: ⁓ Tauba Auerbach at Paula Cooper. Incredible. Gina Beavers: Yes, yes. timoteo: Yes, so very ex excited about that. But for me, my top, my top Chelsea recommendation on Thursday is Pablo Bronstein at Only Gleason. Because Pablo is ⁓ an old friend of mine. ⁓ I just hung out with him. I went to his house in London last year. He moved back to London and I followed his work for f I 20 years. Gina Beavers: Love Tapa and her work. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ right, right, right. Mm-hmm. timoteo: And he's just I he's like a kindred spirit in many respects in my mind because he uses a lot of images of antiquity but makes them sort of mashed up in a modern contemporary way. He's definitely got a very strange, queer aesthetic that deals with decoration and patterning and color and architectonics, but it also has just a very Elaborate system of how he devises these drawings and they're so imaginative. He's grappled a lot with museums and museum collections. So Pablo Bronstein for me is like a real, real sympathetic spirit. So I'm very excited that he has not really had a show in New York in a very long time. If maybe ever. I don't even know if he's ever had like a full dress solo show in New York. I might be wrong, but I don't think he has. So this show at Only Gleason is is a big deal for him. And so I'm very excited about that. So I'm definitely gonna check that out. Gina Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. Ugh, I I'm like on his TV right now trying to remember because I saw the most amazing museum show of his. ⁓ and I'm just trying to figure out where that would have been. I think it was it was definitely in Europe. ⁓ it was so good though, but it must have been like 10 years. timoteo: Well he's shown a Herald Street. He's shown a Herald Street for a really long time. So or he's also shown at Franco in Torino for a long time. And he did have a beautiful little solo show at the Met where he r drew these redesigns of the Met facade. And that was now quite a long time ago. And that's I think might that might have been when I first saw his work, perhaps. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. timoteo: and he did a project on the Highline a bunch of years ago. So he's done a lot of projects in New York. Gina Beavers: Yeah. I I it's just making me crazy. I'm gonna figure it out. But it was definitely in Europe. It was at a museum. Could it have been at the Tate or something something major I it was major and I remember just being ⁓ you know, so I was just so in love with his work and so impressed and also so defeated by it because it was so like epic. timoteo: Yeah. Gina Beavers: And the purview was just like this massive kind of global like it and historically ⁓ you know, and just being like, ⁓ my gosh, just so amazing. So somewhere, yeah, so definitely excited to see his work locally. timoteo: Yeah, so I'm looking forward to all that. And I'm also gonna go to a party for the fashion house Celine, which I'm really excited about. One of my old friends is Michael Ryder, who's the creative director of Celine, and he's doing a little event with like that is a collaboration with Reebok. And so I'm going to that because fashion stuff is this week too. So I've got like the teaching stuff, the fashion stuff, the art stuff. So this week is kind of Gina Beavers: Ooh, ⁓ my God. ⁓ my god. ⁓ that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Like insane. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's exciting. Yeah, I'll just be packing. I ordered a bunch of supplies to be sent right to the headlands. And ⁓ yeah, so I'm gonna be doing mostly that kind of stuff this week, but it's exciting. It's exciting too timoteo: ⁓ hellfire week but I'm I'm looking forward to it. It's like, you know, it should be interesting. So the next time we'll be recording the podcast, you'll be in California. ⁓ Gina Beavers: In New York. Yeah. Yeah, hopefully hopefully we can record it. Fingers crossed. timoteo: Where the mountains climb so tall and the waves crash blue around you. Yeah. Gina Beavers: Yes. ⁓ it'll be I know California. I feel like it's it's it'll be good. Like the vibe is very me at some level. Both my parents are falifornians, so ⁓ Californians. Have you seen that SNL, Tim? Okay. I know you don't follow it, but yeah. Yeah. Well I'm gonna send it to you. ⁓ but it was timoteo: Yeah. No, I don't follow S NL, never have I mean I'm a big Wayne's World person, but like other than Wayne's World, I don't know anything about SNL. Okay. Yeah, I think we should wrap it up now. So I will probably see you on Thursday. Hopefully see some other people say hello. And remember to like us ⁓ you know, on Spotify or follow us or share us. The sharing is so helpful because Gina Beavers: So fun talking to you and are we gonna go? Are we Okay. Yes, yes. Mm. Mm. Yes. Yeah. timoteo: Every time, you know, people share something, I feel like we get more listeners and we can spread, we can proselytize our word more. So please help that. And thank you to everyone who does listen. It's shocking to me that you do, but I really appreciate it. Gina Beavers: Yeah. Totally. And yes. So awesome. Please say hi. Also, any like you want to write a little review, that's really cute too. So anything. Yeah, questions have have been fun, yeah, to try to figure out. So okay, awesome. Bye. See you. Bye. timoteo: Yeah. Or send us questions. Alright.