Timoteo: so many people there look like that shrunken head GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: from Beetlejuice. Hello, hello, hello. This is Timothy Hall. GIna Beavers: And this is Gina Beaver's. Timoteo: And welcome to our little art speak fun, weird, kooky little show called Unstretched. I was like, what is my like what what is gonna be my unconscious train of thought that's just gonna like spew out something? GIna Beavers: like where is it? I was hanging on every word. It's it's like Timoteo: Well, I didn't know where it was going. I it could have been inappropriate. GIna Beavers: I remember when when phones first had that like predictive text, like it's trying to fill in when you're texting, it's like trying to fill in. And my friend had made all this poetry where she would like type a couple like letters and then it would fill in and it would make this weird poem of random. That's what it reminded me Timoteo: That was one of my GIna Beavers: of. Timoteo: pastimes actually. I used to do that all the time. Just type in a word, then press the space bar because it would fill in the next word. And you GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: could get like it was like sort of like concrete poetry. It was like dot is concrete GIna Beavers: Yes. Timoteo: poetry with the iPhone. Yeah. GIna Beavers: Yes, totally so good. Did you ever have those little poetry like magnetic on your refrigerator? Timoteo: I have them in my East Village apartment right now. When we got GIna Beavers: Right now. Amazing. Yes. Timoteo: when we got that little apartment, someone gave us like a box of magnetic poetry. Because they were GIna Beavers: that's awesome. Timoteo: like, what could be more like 90s East Village like than having magnetic poetry? And I was like, you're right. So we have we do actually have magnet magnetic poetry. And I do play with it because I try to, you know, I try to just like make the little moments count. GIna Beavers: Mm, yeah. It's awesome. Sorry, I didn't mean yeah. Timoteo: I miss that predictive t actually I think the iPhone still does that predictive text, but I guess it's like lost its luster. GIna Beavers: Yeah, it's now it's just always annoying. I feel like it never ever you know, I could type the same word in over and over again and it just doesn't won't recognize it. It's like, I don't know. Timoteo: There was like a Luddite group in in Tompkins Square Park two days ago that was trying to get everyone to trade in their smartphones for flip phone. And they GIna Beavers: huh. Timoteo: had like a whole like table, couple of tables set up in these zines they were giving out. And they were like also like kind of with the hard Krishna's, but doing a different thing. And I was intrigued by it because I was like, this is this is fascinating that there are a younger generation that wants to put wants to sort of not have the smartphone, not have GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: color screen. They want it but they don't want to go back to like landline phones. They just want to go back to like the brick phone, you know, like the Nokia or the Motorola phone, which I don't blame them. I mean if I'm if I could wave a magic wand and and go back GIna Beavers: Right, right, right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: to phones, I probably would too, but I don't GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: think I could fit it into my life. GIna Beavers: Yeah. Well and then what happens I mean, not to be cynical, but what happens to the phones that you trade in, like the iPhones and stuff? Where do they go? Timoteo: Siberia. I don't know. But I also feel like but that is something that I GIna Beavers: Do they sell them? Sorry, I'm cynical. Timoteo: grapple with because I I you know, I remember the days of like paper maps and then the days of like map quests where you'd have to like print out the map or you'd or you'd go on the website and you write it down in a piece of paper. I don't miss that. I really like Google GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: Maps. I like driving with it. I like that it tells me there's a cop. ahead, I like that it tells me my speed. I like that it reroutes. Like there's certain things about new technology that are really useful and can be really great. It's not like GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: an across the board terrible thing. GIna Beavers: Right. Absolutely. Like gives and takes away. And even like the connection, being able to stay in touch with people and see what people are up to. Like, you know, people are going on vacation, commenting. That looks you know, like you're I don't know. There's still like the connectivity part of it can still be really convenient compared to like I don't know, but yeah. Timoteo: Well, convenient, but there also is actually, I think there is a joy to social media. Like I personally GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: I do not struggle with social media. I enjoy it. I don't I've GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: gotten over generally the compare and despair kind of thing. And I feel like GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: I I use it either to promote my own work or to tell you know, let people know what projects I'm doing, or GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: to see what all the people I love and I'm interested are doing. I wanna know. GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: what you're doing. I want to see the picture of your trip. I want to see what your children look like. I I that all that stuff to me makes me feel like I can still have my own personal interiority, but also know what's going on in the world. I just mute you if I don't like you. If I don't want to GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: know what you're doing, I just mute you. So problem solved. I don't if I don't like your life if or I if I'm GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Right, right. Timoteo: jealous of your life, I'll just mute you. Like it's like easy done. GIna Beavers: Yeah, totally. Well and I I was thinking that whole idea of FOMO somebody had posted an old video from the nineties of a band. You know, there are all these like accounts where they're reminiscing about the nineties in this way that was like so grungy and we were all in a field and it was muddy and like and I was trying to put myself back. Granted, I was like sixteen, I was like a teenager, but put myself back at those shows and the kind of like I went to Lollapalooza was like ten minutes from my house one year. And thinking like there I mean, I was sixteen, I was a girl. Like I didn't have access in any w like I was there and I was sort of missing out on like any kind of access to these people. I didn't know anything you know, like I don't know, there was still hierarchies there there was maybe even more. Gatekeeping hierarchies, all that stuff was still there and and everybody was so much more remote. Like you couldn't yeah, I don't know. It's not worse or better, I guess, but yeah. Timoteo: absolutely. I mean, I I feel like I live this whole other free-floating life in Italy that I never could have been living pre sort of smartphones and social media. That I have all these Italian friends in the art world and the music industry there that I never would have gotten to GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: know or had access to. Because when I did live in Italy before smartphones and that kind of stuff, I didn't I hardly knew anybody. It was so impossible to break into the culture and meet people and sort of have that deeper understanding. And now it's so much easier and more wonderful in that way. So I I don't know. I feel like GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: back in the pre-smartphone days there actually in a weird way was more gatekeeping and a lot less access. GIna Beavers: Mm. Yeah. Well yeah. Totally. Even if things were a little more grungier and off the cuff and people weren't as afraid of being caught saying something crazy or you know, it wasn't all being recorded at all times. So that I feel like there was like this spirit of wildness. Timoteo: The reality is this technology is like the Faustian bargain, right? It gives GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: so much, but it also takes so much away. And you just have to GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: find, I don't know, instead of railing against everything and wanting to be like such a contrarian, I try to find the middle ground of it. Like how can I GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: use it to the best of my ability, but not let it run my life or ruin my life or you know, like how how can I find the balance in it? Because I think being an extreme either way is not is not realistic. GIna Beavers: Yeah. Yeah, totally. That makes sense. Yeah, so I had a crazy Timoteo: So here we are summer, Gina. Tell us about it. Tell us GIna Beavers: About what? Sorry, you broke up. Timoteo: about tell us about what's going on. GIna Beavers: Well, so I feel like the last time we talked, one thing I forgot to talk about last time, even though it was really great, and made an impression on me, was I did a studio visit with Anna Benaroya, my friend and great painter. She's having a show with Nina Johnson in Miami in conjunction with Miami Basel, like in December. But the work is going down and they're getting it all ready for that. So she was having people over to her studio and The work looks Timoteo: Where's the GIna Beavers: really great. Jersey City. Timoteo: Time. GIna Beavers: which was amazing for me. This is little side note, but I was panicking. Because Jersey City is truly one of the hell holes for driving. Like you could spend like it took me ten minutes to get to Jersey City and it took me like another twenty, twenty five minutes to drive through it. Because it's like Ugh, I don't know, it's tiny streets and it's like hell. Like, and I was like, I'm never gonna find parking. I'm never gonna find parking. What am I gonna do? I remember this last time I went down there. I was like, I could I parked illegally and like panicked the entire time that I was gonna get towed. But I drove my little electric car down there and they had like a whole street of charging stations and it said free parking if you charge. And I was like, my god, this is sweet. Of course Timoteo: Finally a paid. GIna Beavers: Yes, it was right in front of her building and I was like, yeah. That doesn't exist anywhere else. And sadly now Anna's leaving that building. So like I'll probably never find anything like that again. But it was like it was really amazing. five dollars. anyway, that's so dumb that that that bother that I was so focused on that. But anyway, her studio her work looks insanely great. She's just made all of these like leaps with it. She does amazing works on paper. These are these like mussly expressive women. kind of entangled, cosmic, like and they really feel like they're like the compositions are kind of exploding now into like celestial, like they're just amazing. They all ha not all of them, but I particularly like certain ones where the bushes, like the women's bushes, are like almost like an animate force in themselves. They're like these are very three D they tie into the composition and the palette in like really fun, amazing ways. So that's gonna be Timoteo: Are they drawn from life or from imagination? GIna Beavers: They're totally like imagination from music and you know, very like, yeah, subconscious kind of Timoteo: I'm always impressed by artists who can draw so realistically or anat anatomically correct from imagination because I cannot do that. I can't draw I GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: could draw a house from imagination, I could draw GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: almost anything, but bodies I can't I have to look at GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: them. GIna Beavers: Yeah, well and they're not super realistic. They're more in the realm of like Arcrum or like cart what am I trying to say? Like Petersall or you know, there Timoteo: Okay. GIna Beavers: and a lot of her works on paper reference like Jim Nut and like people I mean, you know, I see Jim Nut and different people in some of those like the Images and the Harry Who, that kind of, you know. Anyway, if you ha if you don't know Anna's work, you should go look it up and and definitely look for her show. Yeah, yeah. Timoteo: I don't know it, so I'm gonna have to look it up. GIna Beavers: So that was really awesome. So congratulations, Anna. Timoteo: That's cool. GIna Beavers: yeah. So yeah, that was and then I think we texted because I had gone, I went to Aspen. Timoteo: yes, how did that go for you? GIna Beavers: well my first try to get in, I was texting you because I think we had talked or something and I was like I have to get up at three and get my flight at 6 a.m. And when I got up at three I had a cancellation notice or it was delayed until noon because there was that big storm. It was like a Wednesday night. Big storm. So I was gonna miss my flight. That Timoteo: Yeah. GIna Beavers: was good. But it was then like, I'm gonna miss my flight in Atlanta to get into Aspen. And I immediately am calling the airline, you know, you're trying to get on another flight. They could not put me, that was a Wednesday morning, could not put me on a flight until Friday, which was when I would be coming home. So I was like, what the hell am I gonna do? So I canceled, they did give me a refund for that, and I got another flight which left Wednesday evening to Richmond, spent the night in Richmond in the worst hotel in America, then right by the airport, and then took a six AM to Chicago and then Chicago. to Aspen, getting into Aspen at like ten AM Thursday and then hitting the ground running, doing a million things for twenty four hours and then getting back on a plane and like coming back. It was like Timoteo: You were only there for twenty four hours in the end. GIna Beavers: yeah, twenty four hours. Was there for twenty four hours. So Timoteo: You've I feel like you traveled for way more than twenty four hours. GIna Beavers: I did. And if I had traveled recently, like I hadn't flown anywhere since November. So I felt like I was rested. I was well rested for this. Exactly. Timoteo: Well you need like six months rest before you get on a f before you fly these days. GIna Beavers: Like if I had traveled recently, I don't think I could have done it. But I was just like, well, and I also did that dumb thing where I didn't get the traveler's insurance. Do you ever get that? The traveler's insurance on your Yeah. Timoteo: I have on occasion because the people who told me that they've gotten it, it's like totally saved their ass on so many levels. And so sometimes GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: if I remember, if I'm feeling flush, I'll I'll just add that like hundred dollars on or whatever. And I've never GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Timoteo: fortunately had to use it, but I GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: do think that's probably not a bad idea. GIna Beavers: Yeah. So I couldn't get any of my money back on my hotel or anything. So I was like, well, I'm gonna go. So they just kept my room open the first night. I didn't show up. But then what was nice about that was I got in at ten AM. I could go straight to my room because I'd paid for it already the night before. but also like looking at it, 'cause the gallery was kinda like, Are you sure you wanna come like for twenty four hours? Might not be worth it. But I'm really glad that I went. Like, I'm glad that I had that experience. I I learned that apparently Aspen is such a small airport, such a small place. There's so many there's so few commercial flights that often people miss their first chance to get in. I talked to an artist who was like, I plan to come two nights ahead of time because my flight has gotten canceled so many times at the beginning. so just a little tip, yeah. Timoteo: I mean, but that's a given now. Traveling anywhere is that you're likely GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: not gonna get there when you think you're gonna get there. It's it's an GIna Beavers: I know, I thought like yeah. Timoteo: exception if you like, if you like this tr last trip I just took to Rome, I got there and I got home in perfect timing. Every flight was cur correct and connected. And I thought that that was a miracle because usually something GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: is wrong, something's delayed, something's canceled, you know, and GIna Beavers: Totally, totally. I mean, I thought that the way to beat it was to leave at six AM because they always say like get out first Timoteo: You would think. GIna Beavers: but there was rain overnight. This was that big storm that like so all these flights at Newark were like Of course I live Yeah, yeah. Timoteo: Well the weather right now is so insane. It's either like s you know, yellow toxic smoke or it's some crazy GIna Beavers: Ha ha. Timoteo: thunderstorm from the depths of hell with Vigo the Carpathian riding a huge wave. You know, it's like you don't know what's gonna happen anymore. GIna Beavers: No, totally. my god. So the descent, like you're on a tiny plane coming into Aspen, you're in the mountains. And I heard later you have to have a special the pilots have to have a special license to land there because it's so dangerous because you come in this one direction through the mountains. It's like the slow 40-minute descent and then like when the bumps hit you're like you c you're right at the top of a mountain like you look over like there's a mountain right there and we're like bumping along. Timoteo: No, like Patsy Klein, Buddy Holly Holly. GIna Beavers: No, I know. And I'm such a fearful flyer in general. So it was like, holy on the way out, he said, you know, we're gonna have some bumps on the way out. And I was like, okay, well turbulence. Those things where you drop like 10, 20 feet, and then you drop again, and you're just like, no, that's it. We're dead, it's all over. Like that happened repeatedly on the way out. I was like, what? Next time I might fly to Denver and then just drive, because it's like four hours. Timoteo: I feel like that's if I ever have to do that, that is w I'm gonna take that advice. I don't need that bullshit. But did you feel GIna Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So Timoteo: like it was worth it going like as as an artist having work at the fair there? Like did you feel like you met some interesting people or rep represented your artwork and it was like worth worth it like in a business way or just in a social GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: way or both social business way? GIna Beavers: Yeah, I think those are the same yeah, meeting people for sure. Because you're in this tiny place where the biggest thing one of the interesting things I learned is that, you know, Aspen used to be like ski destination. That was the tourism, but now the cultural events, the cultural festivals in Aspen have taken over in terms of tourism from the skiing, which is wild. So they have like the Aspen Food and Wine, they have the Aspen Music Festival, they have Air, you know, the museum, they They have all these different festivals now and that's what people come to town for, which I thought was so interesting. So it's small enough that like you're running into people constantly. Like it's like Timoteo: Yeah. GIna Beavers: you see at all the events, you see artists, cu curators, you see everybody. so it's definitely like worth it. Yeah, it was it was definitely fun. Timoteo: Were there a lot of artists there? Because like when I looked at my Instagram related to that, I felt felt like it was mostly art world like sort of adjacent or like not adjacent but like non-artist art world people. GIna Beavers: No, there were a lot of artists. I talked I went on a hike the morning that I was leaving, which by the way, I sent you a picture. I did not get the memo that one wears leggings. Hiking. I guess I thought we were like going camping or something. Cause I have Timoteo: No, I love it. You look like West Virginia. GIna Beavers: I look like an Appalachian grandmother or something. I have like jeans in my hiking boots. I look so out of place and like at the Timoteo: You actually're very authentic though. Looks very authentic. GIna Beavers: It's like Gina didn't get the memo that like this is not what you hike in anymore. It looks like nineties hiking or something. Timoteo: It did. You looked like you were definitely like you stepped out of like the lily there, you hiked there, you had spent the night. GIna Beavers: It was really pretty embarrassing, but I Yeah, so we ran up a mountain somehow, over boulders and I mean it really felt like we were running. We were going at such a pace. and I ended up talking to different people along the hike and I talked to Keith Meyerson, the painter, the great American painter. Timoteo: He's great, wow. GIna Beavers: Yeah. So I had a long talk with him. I talked to Steffi Hessler from the Swiss Institute for a long time. while I'm like you know, like trying to keep up. It's like very funny. so Timoteo: What is like Keith Meyerson doing there? Was did was he like did he have work in i at the fair or just like what was his sort of his GIna Beavers: Yeah. So people donated works to Art Crush, which is the Aspen Art Museum's event, you know, gala. That museum is beautiful. It's just a gorgeous space, a gorgeous building. but he also had work, he had a show at the Denver Art Museum. He's from Colorado originally. Timoteo: I didn't know that. Okay. GIna Beavers: Yeah, so interesting. So he'd had a big show in Denver and then I think maybe he was in a group show at the Aspen Army. You know, like there were different things that he was also connected to. so that was cool. Yeah. So there's definitely artists there, good artists and yeah, it was it was definitely fun. So I would definitely and I stayed at this place. Two hundred and fifty dollars a night. I had to share a bathroom. But it was kind of cute. It was like hostel. It took me back to go to going to hostels in Europe because it was called the St. Merit's. It's very like Swiss chalet, ski chalet with a pool. Heated pool. Timoteo: Yeah. GIna Beavers: I sat in the pool for a couple hours. but yeah you had to share about it's kinda like camp it was kinda like being at camp. Like I had my own room but then I had to go down the hallway. But I kind of might I might stay there again. Like I don't know. It was cute Timoteo: Yeah. I had an apartment like that in Manhattan in the early two thousands in Murray Hill. It was like an SRO that w had like a it like a single room that I rented with a bathroom GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: down the hall. It was like in an old townhouse and it was really awesome because it was like four hundred dollars a month and for GIna Beavers: Wow. Timoteo: a beautiful big townhouse room and with GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: like a little kitchenette, but I shared the bathroom with like Two other people. It was like no big deal. I wish that those kinds of things still existed. GIna Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Totally. Like especially for younger people. It's like, Yeah, why not? You know. Timoteo: Yeah, it was great when I was like in in my early twenties, like totally. GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So yeah, it was Timoteo: Gone the S Ros in the city. GIna Beavers: Yes, totally. yeah, so that was just a really cool trip. I went to Creative Capital had a dinner at this amazing house. I mean, the thing about Aspen is how gorgeous it is. Like you cannot believe how beautiful it is. Like your mind is keeps being like and I don't know if part of it i it's dramatic, right? You're in the middle of the mountains, so every vista has like a mountain or roaring river behind it. It's like insane. But it's also like Timoteo: Do you really the lime? It's like really GIna Beavers: It's really sorry. Sublime. Totally. And I Timoteo: Sublime. Yeah. GIna Beavers: don't know, you know, the elevation's high, maybe the air is thinner, so you're getting these layers of landscape when you look I don't know. I did have mate Yes. Timoteo: Yeah, like the atmospheric perspective where the where the atmosphere makes things sort of like layered and hazy. GIna Beavers: Totally. You're seeing so much in every view. It's like so it is like higher elevation and there were I had a running nose and like swollen red eyes the entire time and I asked and it's it which was really I couldn't wear makeup, I couldn't w put my contacts in. I was just like I can't do you know, 'cause my eyes are like I look like I was stoned the entire Timoteo: You were like a mess for twenty four hours. Like a to GIna Beavers: I was, I was. But it turns out there are all these mountain flowers there that you don't see anywhere else. Like Timoteo: Well. GIna Beavers: that you you know, if you have no immunity to, like, how could you you know, you're so Yes, totally. Timoteo: so you were like having allergic reaction? Were you also kind of like high in dopey because the atmosphere was lighter? GIna Beavers: A little bit. I think if I I've definitely have you ever had issues with like elevation? 'Cause I've had a Timoteo: Not really. GIna Beavers: yeah. I've one time in Mexico City I had like it's the longer that you stay there. So like the fact that I was in and out in twenty four hours I think was good. If I had been there for like a week, I would have started to feel it. Yeah, for sure. Timoteo: That's I remember going to Mexico City in the late nineties and it was so smoggy as you flew in, you sort of like saw this ring of smog that was the city, and when you would you would the airplane would pierce the ring of smog. And I just like smoked like a pack of cigarettes a day when I was there. And then I someone had told me that just breathing there was like smoking a pack of cigarettes. So it was like, wow, GIna Beavers: yeah, yeah, yeah. Timoteo: I was like basically smoking two packs of cigarettes a day while I was in Mexico City. GIna Beavers: my god. Timoteo: say love being. GIna Beavers: Yeah, I got so sick. I went to the material art fair like twelve years ago, 2014, and I had like the time of my life. Did I already tell you this? Did I already talk about this on the podcast? Timoteo: Maybe, but I don't remember. GIna Beavers: I feel like I'm definitely gonna repeat myself some episodes because like I don't remember what I've talked about, but Timoteo: Well it's fine, we'll have new listeners, they won't remember and you know, it's like every every time I my wipe my s mind clean after every episode, so GIna Beavers: Yeah, exactly. But I went to material, it was just like nights and days of just like fun and partying and going to these amazing that anthropological museum in Mexico City is like one of the best museums on earth. Like and they have full Mayan temples on the grounds. It's like insane. but then going to the markets and then like partying and drinking a lot and like the last it was I was there for like four days and then the last night we had this dinner with all these collectors and like gallery people and I'm just sitting there at the table. Somebody passes the chips over and I'm like, hmm, I don't think I can eat a chip. I'm not feeling and then I'm running for the bathroom. Then it's 24, 36, 48 hours of just absolute exorcist like level, both Timoteo: Wow. GIna Beavers: all orifices like shittings. Like and I had to get on my flight early the next morning. And thankfully Timoteo: Not fun. GIna Beavers: It led up enough that I was able to like fly home, but it was very touch and go. Like I I went to the at like three in the morning, I they have these little kiosks that are all like bulletproof glass in the middle of the gas stations. And I went at three in the morning like pointing at the ginger ale, like please, like Timoteo: Yeah, they know what they're do they they're they're ready for. GIna Beavers: they're ready for this Lizzie American idiot to come up. Timoteo: Montezuma's revenge is, you know GIna Beavers: Yes. And the other thing I remember is my hotel room. I only got it had like a TV in the corner. And I don't know why why I even had it on, but like it had one channel, and that channel was all horror movies. Like all night long. And I was just like, this is hell. Like I'm just like, my God. Yeah. So Timoteo: My own personal actually was playing bingo at a Seneca casino up in northwest New York State, which was like, I don't know. I mean, playing bingo sounds fun, but I would so GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: for my father-in-law's birthday, he wanted to go to this like bingo hall. So we drove out to Ohio because he had been fixing our Volkswagen golf. Which because I'd hit a deer. And so fortunately, GIna Beavers: yeah. Timoteo: my father-in-law is an autobody guy, and so he fixed the my car, which would have cost thousands of dollars, and he did it pr pretty much for free. And so, but we had to rent a car, drive out there, pick our car up. But he wanted to go to this casino that was out like on the sort of Ohio-New York State border. And we went to this big bingo hall, which was insane. And you pay like $60 and you get like 40 bingo cards, some of which are huge, like a size of a map with like 20 different bingo games on it. And the woman's like calling out the numbers like a mile a minute, and you got this big stamper, you gotta stamp them all. And it is like hell because you gotta GIna Beavers: Ha ha ha. Timoteo: look at like, you know, nine different games. You've got like, you know, 25, 30 numbers on each one. You're hearing this woman calling out these numbers. You gotta stamp them like this. It's almost like Lucille Ball on the bottle factory kind of thing. GIna Beavers: Ha ha ha. Timoteo: Where like you just like if you miss one, you they cascade and you miss them all. And you can't think, you can't talk, you can't go to the bathroom, you can't like I mean, people are probably sitting there like in diapers because they you can't you can't GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: leave that the the the the situation because it's all happening so fast and and And so and someone we were with was like, are you enjoying this? And I was like, No, this is actually what my idea of like hell would be, that you're like sort of stuck in this like bingo hall GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: and can't leave. And I kept complaining and complaining, saying that I'm never doing this again. It's the worst experience of my life. I hate it. There is no food, no drink that because you couldn't get up to get anything because you GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: couldn't leave there, else you'd lose. And so finally, at the end, the last game. The last jackpot, I win it. I'm the winner. And I'm like, I call out bingo, but I called out bingo before the woman had finished calling out the letter because I could see it on a screen before she'd announce it. And everyone at GIna Beavers: Hm. Timoteo: my table is like, no, you can't call bingo before the number has been called. And I was like, shit, I don't know what I'm doing. I just arrived GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: here. Like I you know, I I was I don't know anything GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: about the rules of bingo. So I almost didn't win the jackpot. but I GIna Beavers: my god. Timoteo: did win the jackpot and everyone was like, you know, the guy who hates bingo and has hated every minute of being here is the one who like big amount. GIna Beavers: The one who wins. Ugh. Timoteo: so I felt pretty good at the you know, I felt pretty good at the end because I'm I'm I made back all the money that I would have spent on my car getting that fixed. So I feel like the universe GIna Beavers: amazing. Yeah, well Timoteo: like here you go. GIna Beavers: that's amazing. So you said that you had to split it with someone? Did somebody else win also? Timoteo: I did because yeah, there were two people who right after I called it, then someone else called it. So yes, I had to split the jackpot, but it was GIna Beavers: Someone else caught it. Okay. Yeah. Timoteo: still pretty substantial. I mean, yeah, I mean substantial meaning I won fifteen hundred dollars, which, you know, is nothing to sneeze at totally, but in cash they pay you in front of everyone, which is really embarrassing. And I was like, Can I get some security to walk out of here? GIna Beavers: Yeah. Which is fucking great. In the Trump era, are you kidding me? Yeah. It exactly. Am I gonna get robbed on the way to the that is so amazing. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: But then to get out of there, they they want you to gamble it all away, like on your way out, which I which I kinda did. I spent like sixty dollars just sort of on the the little machines and I lost it all. GIna Beavers: But Timoteo: but that was my last gambling foray for a long time though, because I I I I think I talked about it the last time I was did the podcast that I've been gambling. So yeah, I'm not I'm GIna Beavers: Yeah. You did gam you were gambling. Yeah. Timoteo: I'm twice this year over done with you know. GIna Beavers: It was so amazing because I was there in real time. You were texting me, I hate this game. You're sending me pictures. This sucks. Like and then like an hour later, you're like, I won! I was like, so amazing. So amazing. So happy for you. I was like, holy shit, I know someone who won big. I mean, I'm sorry. Anything over like, I don't know, anything over a hundred dollars is like a miracle. Timoteo: Yeah. I agree. I agree. I I have very good luck at GIna Beavers: Yeah. It's so great. Timoteo: at at gambling. Not like real gambling, but at those little things. I I always seem to do pretty well, generally. I mean, yeah, GIna Beavers: Mm, mm. Timoteo: like whatever, but but I feel like you just gotta go in and be like who gives a fuck, you know, and just have fun, enjoy it. I mean there are people that like GIna Beavers: Yeah, totally, totally. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: there were people at this casino up there who really looked like they'd been through the ringer. They really looked like an old, GIna Beavers: Mm. Mm. Timoteo: dirty old, rotten old rag that just was like you know, wrung out and like they've been smoking forever and drinking. And it it just it was very sad in that way. That like this is not there's no glamour there like you might see in Las Vegas. Like and I've never been to Las Vegas, but I understand that there's some glamour there. I mean, I have watched hacks. there's no like Deborah Vance up. GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: at the casino up in upstate n you know, far upstate New York. It's definitely GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: your worst stereotype of like what you know, everyone there's GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: so many people there look like that shrunken head from Beetlejuice. GIna Beavers: Mm. That's amazing. Timoteo: Like I would say, like that's that's the look. The look is like this like shrunken, shriveled beetle juice head who's like smoking, you GIna Beavers: Wish Timoteo: know, and drinking through a straw and is just like wisened and dried up and just is like hitting the theater bar GIna Beavers: my god, yeah. Timoteo: for a pellet. And you know, so I so I go there and I'm like, GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: okay, you know, they're butt for the grace of God. GIna Beavers: Yeah, totally, totally. I That's funny because I was thinking I was I went down this whole rabbit hole because Aspen, I meant to say you landing not to go back to Aspen, but this is I'm going somewhere with this. You land, it's a tiny place, you feel like you're landing on the moon, there's all the cars are four by fours, and then you look over and there's like a hundred private jets. So you it's like it's like the most insanely weird wealth equation. Like people, the richest person you know is like middle class in Aspen. The only good thing, I mean the Hermes looks like a log cabin, like it the Hermes store. It's like so. But the only good thing about it was like I ate really well. I had all my dietary preferences, my gluten-free of the, you know, because I'm celiac, and I had such a good wine. And I was like, you know what? Honestly, all the times that I've gone hiking or camping or gone to like the Grand Canyon or any kind of Americana stuff where you're gonna get the smokey the bear vibe, right? But you're also gonna get the like a 400-foot American flag and the screaming eagle and like all the don't tread on me t-shirts. It was kind of nice to be in nature and have good it almost felt like Europe. I sound like such a snob. You know to Timoteo: Like no, you sound like the craziest snob I've ever heard, but it's fine because that's what that's GIna Beavers: Ha ha. Timoteo: why luxury is nice and that's why people like it, because GIna Beavers: Yeah, I just like is it's so terrible to have like some good food and some good wine and in beautiful environment, like where it's not overrun with like tourist bullshit. For f and it doesn't have to I still find the charm and all that. Maybe I find less charm now that I live in the suburbs. Maybe I found more charm when I was going from the city to like the middle of nowhere. And now that I live in the suburbs, I'm still I I just yeah, just even for like a day. It doesn't have to be all the time. It was just like a nice little thing. And I remembered it reminded me that one time Keith and I had gone tubing, this is a whole long story, but like we stayed at this place called Cove Haven, which is one of those romance hotels, like honeymoon hotels in the is it the Adirondacks? The Timoteo: so like the beautiful Mount Erie Lodge. GIna Beavers: Is that I don't know that. Yeah. This was like yeah, it's like Timoteo: People you know, you know. GIna Beavers: the well those ones where you take a picture in like a champ in a champagne glass. Okay. Yes. Timoteo: Yeah, that's the beautiful Mount Airy Lodge that with the they invented the champagne glass bathtub. GIna Beavers: Yes. Yes, totally. That so we stayed at Covehaven. It was once at one point it was owned by Playboy. Like it it was like and they had like comedian it was like hot and cool in the seventies kind of who know like heart-shaped beds, heart-shaped tubs. Timoteo: Like GIna Beavers: Yes, the whole thing. and they had this incredible Timoteo: Mm. GIna Beavers: bar, this like heart shaped, massive bar that was like the most beautiful thing I've ever the tackiest, most beautiful thing I've ever seen. And the whole experience was like tacky and insane and wonderful. But then we had to like eat there because that was the only we're like, all right, well let's try the restaurant. And it was the most god awful Like but you but also expensive. Like you're paying like way too much money to eat something that you'd rather just like, I don't know, just chew on a shoe or something. It was like the most god awful all white tablecloth, you know, everybody dressed up. We have a waiter coming over and he's just serving a slop. And I was just like, you know, I mean these are these things where it's like, Can I can I get a little bit of like I don't know, I'm so snobby. my god. Timoteo: So growing up in the New York region, when you GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: would watch like Channel Eleven TV like in the morning on during the summer, on repeat would be an advertisement for Mount Airy Lodge and the Poconos. And they had the most yeah, they had the most catchy song. Their commercial GIna Beavers: Poconos, that's where it was. Poconos. Timoteo: was so catchy. And the imagery was so like yuppie paradise. It was like, you know. Beautiful women playing tennis, hot dudes skiing, you know, be gorgeous young couples enjoying gourmet meals poolside. And GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: and like Mount Airy Lodge had this like whole mystique. And growing up, you thought, well, that's what adult life is gonna be like. I'm just gonna be going to these like glorious. GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: Luxury resorts and like looking beautiful in a swimming pool and skiing and tennis and golf and dancing all through the night. And it really made a big impression on me and everyone of my generation growing up in the New York region. So much so that I recently posted something about Mount Airy Lodge and a clip from the old commercial. And I got dozens of responses of people who grew up in in the New York region who were like, my God, that's what I thought adulthood was gonna be like, the Mount Mount Area Lodge. GIna Beavers: Ha ha ha Timoteo: And it turns out it was all just like a fake, you know, it was all just sort of like fake bullshit. Like it was actually really shitty. The food was terrible. It was, you know, maybe it had like a a few years of, you know, being like actually nice. But then they ended up tearing it down in like 2000. Because it was so like down on its heels. So, but that's sort of a badge for I think the 80s yuppie dream that then was GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: not fulfilled in like the 2000s or like the financial crisis, just like wiped all that kind of fantasy GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: away. And so now, like, you know, you're you're 45 plus years old and you're like, where's my Mount Erie Lodge? Why does that not exist? GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: I get to go to the Mount Erie Lodge and it's a GIna Beavers: Yeah. No, now it's it's the fif over fifty-five community and they're like doing all those things. Like the tennis, like the Timoteo: But now it's like, you know, the White Lotus, like it's actually, if you really want a nice resort experience, you have to pay $25,000 for a week. And, you know, no one can afford that. And so they GIna Beavers: yeah. Mhm. Sh ridiculous. Yeah. Timoteo: just keep, you know, society keeps raising that bar way higher than what you know you can afford. So you gotta GIna Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Timoteo: like live in your own the Mount Airy Lodge of your mind. So like that's like when GIna Beavers: Yes, totally. Timoteo: I'm like in my backyard, I'm trying to like GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: live in my own. Personal private Mount Airy Lodge. Where all you have to bring is your love of everything. That's all you had to bring. That's all you had to bring to go to the Mount Airy Lodge was your love of everything. GIna Beavers: That's amazing. I think totally. You can no, totally. What everything. that was the that was the tagline. See I Timoteo: Yeah. I'm gonna post it because people will love it. It's beautiful. GIna Beavers: Totally. I think it's so sad that they tear those places down. Like they should be like in the National Register of Historic Places. Like I'm sorry, Cove Haven, which is also in that area, should be like they had crazy comedians like i in the 70s, like all the hottest comedians like perform there and musical acts and like why can we not Timoteo: Yeah. GIna Beavers: preserve these places? I will say that there was they had like an indoor mini golf thing and it was these old like sort of versions of Mickey Mouse, something between a Paul McCarthy. McCarthy like fever dream. Is that right? Paul McCarthy. What am I saying? Is that the artist? Or am I saying Paul McCartney? who's the LA artist who makes the really gross like butt plugs and Paul McCarthy? Timoteo: Yeah, I love the butt plugs. Big Santa GIna Beavers: Yes. Timoteo: butt plugs. GIna Beavers: Totally. I didn't mean to say gross, but you know what I mean. Like the that and also sort of like Timoteo: They are gross. You stick it up somebody's butt. If that's the definition of gross, I'm sorry. GIna Beavers: Well, I was also thinking of all the stuff he does with like all the food and like it gets like really messy and gross and like intentionally. that and Mike Kelly, these like sort of knockoff Mickey Mouse like figures that were used for mini golf and they had them all crammed into this room and Keith and I played mini golf with these absolutely rusting paint peeling off, terrifying Like but kind of wonderful in this it was the only the two of us in this giant hall with these like creepy ass metal yeah, it was insane. So I'm sad. I hope Timoteo: That's when kitsch really works. That's when like kitsch, you know, hits it right. GIna Beavers: Totally. And it's supposed to be a romantic thing, but you're like, this is terrifying. Like, I guess it's more romantic for someone, but like this is scaring the shit out of me. I mean I Timoteo: Well, I feel like the the the the casino that I went to as well sort of s h tried to have a romantic air to it, but I was like, this is not romance to me. Is not my idea of GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's not your I think it's just they hoped to that you drink so much you get romantic. Mm-hmm. really? They don't give you Timoteo: They don't even actually give you you'd think that they'd be giving you free drinks or giving you like snacks, but no like no drink or snacks. No, I just want like a bowl of Doritos like I a bowl of goldfish or a bowl of Doritos and like a Coke Zero, but no, they're not giving me. GIna Beavers: my god, I wanna go gambling with you sometimes. I wanna I wanna go to a casino sometimes. Timoteo: I mean, we'll do it. We'll definitely you know, I mean it's fun enough that GIna Beavers: Mm, mm-hmm. It sounds fun. Timoteo: I that I you know, I I will go again, but I'm not I'm absolutely I don't like to losing money is not a policy I have, so I don't really like to you know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna make GIna Beavers: Yeah. You o yeah, you only win, Tim. Timoteo: Exactly. I'm I'm like I'm a winner. I was you know, win win w I'm I'm ti GIna Beavers: Ha ha ha. Timoteo: I'm like Donald Trump, I'm so tired of winning. winning, so exhaust GIna Beavers: Ha ha ha Timoteo: Anyway, what did I break is that am I breaking out? GIna Beavers: I know. I yeah, but is that my fault or your fault? Timoteo: No, it's probably my fault because while I podcast while I do the podcast, Corey GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: lets me talk to his friend in Spain on the phone. And so GIna Beavers: okay. Timoteo: he's using up the internet. I'm using the internet. My GIna Beavers: I see. Yeah. Timoteo: my internet connection has to fly across like a whole lawn to get over here from our house. So it's catches catch can. So I'm sorry to our listeners if it breaks up or if GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. right, right, right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no. Timoteo: but you know what? I don't have good GIna Beavers: Yeah. Totally. Timoteo: Wi-Fi, don't have cell phone service where I live. Like you like, like even though I live an hour and a half northwest of New York City, you I may as well be living in Saskatchewan, Canada. Like I there's no GIna Beavers: Ha ha ha. Timoteo: why there's no like cell phone service here anywhere. So I have to rely GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: on Wi-Fi for everything. But the minute like I go away from my house, I can't use my cell phone. So don't call me, can't text me. Speaking of that, people called me after I said that I wanted to be called on the phone. in the last podcast. Paul Sapuya called me right away. I couldn't answer because I was in the middle of gambling. I was like, Paul, I'm actually in the GIna Beavers: they did! my god. Aww Timoteo: middle of ming, I can't do anything right now. I can't even pee. GIna Beavers: my gosh, that's amazing. Maybe he was your good luck charm to like win that 1500. It all linked up. Yeah. well, yeah, the internet. I was gonna ask you, because for like two months, I'm gonna be in the headlands in San Francisco and Sausalito in the park there. And I'm like, do we think I'm gonna have good internet or bad? Because like on the one hand, it's Silicon Valley, right? On the other hand It's a state park kind of with nothing a around it. So I can't tell if I'm Timoteo: I I have good internet. But hopefully the place where you're staying, it's 'cause it's like a residency will have good Wi Fi. GIna Beavers: Yeah, we'll have good internet. Yeah, so we'll see. That will be a weird a weird time. Timoteo: You might not get cell phone service. GIna Beavers: Yeah, I know. Is that possible though? I do my impression from like being in touch with everybody there is that they use apps and like they're way more digitally advanced, I feel. I mean I everybody in New York is digitally advanced, but there's like a reticence about it and I don't think they are worried about that in the Bay Area. Timoteo: What do you mean digitally advanced? I I don't know what that means. I am am I digitally advanced? I don't know. GIna Beavers: Sending me links for little download this thing and then you'll be in the calendar and then this will populate and Timoteo: I do that. GIna Beavers: then this will and in a way that's like very, very comfortable in a way that you would not expect from a residency on the East Coast. And I was thinking Timoteo: Yeah. GIna Beavers: it's possibly the Bay Area influence of like Silicon Valley and like being sort of native to all of this. I don't know, but I just did feel there was a vibe there. Timoteo: Interest I have a hard time with all that technology 'cause I don't get cell phone service. GIna Beavers: yeah, yeah. No, totally. Like what are you supposed to Yeah, so yeah, so we shall see wha how that goes. Timoteo: Yeah. Well, I just wanted to say, you know, because it popped into my mind that's something I wanted to talk about was how very, very, very, very, very, very, very upset I am by the death of Francisco Cordero who ran Lubov Gallery. And I just wanna say I just wanna like take the moment to say what a really amazing, charming Weird fellow he was. I loved him. And even though I never showed with Lubov, for at least six plus years I would go in there almost every show. And he was almost always there. And was always very accessible, very chatty. We became good friends. shared a lot of great ideas about art, talked about artists, shot the shit, smoked cigarettes, like, you know, he had an environment, he created an environment at that gallery that was definitely the kind of like boho chic that you fantasize in New York City, like a small little New York City gallery is like and I he also always sat at this little teeny fold-up desk that over the years got like grungier and Dirtier and grosser. And up until just the very end, he was always sitting at that grungy little teeny white desk with his laptop and like a mouse. And I have some great photos of him that I'll post of like sitting at this little teeny desk. And even when he had moments of great success, he never upgraded the desk. Like he always kept, like that's something I always admired about him, is he always sort of kept it real in the sense that GIna Beavers: Hmm. Timoteo: like, I think that was how he managed to stay in business for so many years on a shoestring and doing weird shows, was by not not like getting money and then blowing it on like a big fancy glass desk or you know, expanding the space in a crazy way. But I do, you know, I I watched him over the last six, seven months kind of unravel because as the art market was unraveling, he really hit it ha got hit hard and it became really tough. And he had always struggled with drugs and other problem, you know, mental health issues. And I think that the the the sort of raw cruelness of the art world, even though for him on many levels it was very generous and very kind, but the general kind of raw cruelness of the art world I think really in some respects took took its toll and I think that they were of course outstanding other reasons, but it g it gave me a lot of pause about how if you're like, you know, it reminded me of of the of the movie Amelie, where there's this part where they say, you know, times are tough for the dreamers. And GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: and I was and I was thinking of like how that's something I've been thinking a lot recently. Is the people who are the most sensitive, who are the most dreamy, who are the most sort of kind and creative and and and you know, there's just the permeability of emotion are taking the world tough right now. It's tough. And it's tough for everyone, but it's definitely tough GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: for some, more some than others. And GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: and I just wanted to acknowledge that. He did a great thing. He was a great creative person. His gallery had great shows, memorable stuff, flew off the seat of his pants. I loved it. But he never held up the veil between like I'm too cool. My I'm a I'm a dealer. You're an artist. GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: Don't you know there's there's so many gallerists who do that, who play like a little cool game. GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: And he never did, even though he was sort of like one of the coolest people. And that's what I love. That's what I love so much GIna Beavers: Mm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: about Francisco. And I want everyone to remember that he he played the game and he kept it real. And I'm just really sad And it also reminded me of Schopenhauer, who's this German philosopher I happen to have been reading a lot the past couple of weeks, who's been a favorite philosopher of mine for most of my life. But but more recently, I was reading The World as Will and Representation, and he talks so much about suffering and how suffering is this, is this just quality of human life that you can't get out of it. It's just the nature of being human and having the will and having desire and having movement and energy, it leads to constant suffering. And I kinda like I felt like when I saw that that Francisco had died, my my f sort of knee-jerk reaction was, well, Schopenhauer is right. And and not in a cynical way, but in a way that we need to acknowledge that that we're all just striving to exist and doing the best that we can And we should have compassion for each other and for what GIna Beavers: Yes, yes. Timoteo: we're doing. And just want to remember that. GIna Beavers: Totally. I think that was beautiful. A beautiful remembrance of him. I d yeah. It's we are a lot of us like really sensitive. We were saying like wearing your heart on your sleeve and being open and you know, that's part of making art is like allowing yourself to be like that. You have to be like that. But then yeah, this idea of we just there's so much bullshit. It's not only the art world. It's like it's the world world. It's the social media world where you see people like being terrible to each other. online and like believe me I I have trolled and been a troll in a previous life. Like Timoteo: Mm-hmm. GIna Beavers: I've done that. When at first when social media was first a thing and politics were I was deeply involved. So I'm not saying but like you just see a lot of like casual cruelty the way that people like you know it's just like we just have to try to be nicer to each other. You know, like we're just we're just being sucked into this. And then all of the power games are such bullshit in the art world. It's like I pr you know, I I went up, you know, here I am saying like, you know, I had a great time in Aspen. I met all these people. I did have a interaction with an artist where I went up and talked to them and they acted like, why are you talking to me? I'm a much bigger artist than you. Like get the fuck away. You know, I just did have an interaction like that. where I was just like, you know, I I I tried to look at it from the other hand where it was like Like, would do do you really want people coming up to you saying how great you I mean like I I was Not everybody wants someone to come up and be like, hey, I love your worry. Like, you know, like I get fine. But I was just thinking, like, is everything that we do in the art world, like, is it worth are the power games and the careerism and all that stuff worth being shitty to people? Like, is it and it's not just because somebody was like, I'm more powerful than you. It's also because like, you know, we're in this world, we still have to try to I don't know, I made it my mission to try to be as kind as I can just so I can live with my you know, just so we can like navigate this world and not I don't know. Timoteo: I know you know, to a large measure, humans are very status conscious people, very insecure, they want power over other people. The art GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: world is no different. And so there's always there are always people in the art world who sort of act like they have some higher status or they're in a more rarefied level of the art world GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: and they wanna act like you don't exist, or they pretend like they don't remember your name, even though you Met them 10 times. And, GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: you know, they there's so much of that. That's that's that's one of the hardest parts of navigating like the art world, especially sort of the New York art world, is that so many of the artists were kind of nerdy, weirdo people growing up who were excluded. And so the minute they get power, they start to exclude or they use that as like. GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: form of exclusion and I mean I a lot of people grow out of that, but there's you know, a lot of people don't grow out of that. And GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: I you know, as long as I don't know, one thing I I mean, people coming up is is fun because I feel like since we've been doing this podcast, like people come up to me when I'm at an opening or something and they're like, I love the podcast. It was so interesting what you said. And I I love that. Like that's fun. That's GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: that's fun part of doing this is is is GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: Is putting something out in the public and having people respond and want to talk about it and have a dialogue GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: and and so you know, but you never know GIna Beavers: Yeah, I'm Timoteo: if you're coming off as snob and maybe somebody's like, Tim Hall, you know, looked at me cross eyed and he's such a snob. GIna Beavers: No, no. yeah. Or like maybe she's coming off as an ass kisser. Like if I came up to someone like Timoteo: Yeah. GIna Beavers: I like love your work. Like the nobody's required to like but I just not what I personally like I love people coming up to me. Thank you for saying hi. Like it's a lonely ass world out here. I'm like Timoteo: It is. That's reality. It's a lonely ass world. Yeah. GIna Beavers: You know, I used to have this thing at art openings where I was like, I wish there was just a sign, like all the people here alone, line up here and start talking. Like 'cause I'll just like talk to anybody. I don't care. But I could see that that could also be annoying. but yeah, I don't know. It just there were You know, I'm like studying Stoic philosophy, whatever, it gets a bad name. But one of the things was like, you know, Abraham Lincoln being this is not stoic philosophy, this is an interpretation, a great person and politician, even though he was a politician. Like that he was in this like snake pit. And he managed to salvage like the parts of himself that were human and humanity, like he managed to maintain that. Which I think that that's super important for all of us and like to not judge people, to not you know, or to not try not to and to try to give people break. You know, everybody's out here trying to do their thing and we're just all so I don't know. Artists we get like we do those podcasts and it's like we never quite Being an artist, like you never get all the information. You don't get all the pieces of the puzzle. You're just like constantly trying to piece it together. And I think it it leads to a certain kind of paranoia and fear and you know, you're just like so people get cagey and like, I don't know. I don't know what I'm saying, but yeah. Timoteo: Yeah, well sometimes you just have to sweep the floor and paint the wall, which is generally what GIna Beavers: Yes, yes. Timoteo: I did this week. you know, I like I I finished teaching my summer online class, which was super fun. GIna Beavers: awesome. Timoteo: I think I talked about how much I enjoy actually I never would have thought I would enjoy teaching like an online drawing class, but I absolutely love it and And the reflections that I got from the students at the end were so interesting. And I'm I can't believe how much they get out of an online drawing course, but they do. So I think that it's a valid thing. GIna Beavers: So great. Timoteo: Anyway, so after the class was over, I was like, all right, I have a little extra free time now. I'm going to paint my studio floor and paint the big painting wall where I paint. And I hate doing that. I hate it. I hate moving GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: stuff. I hate cleaning stuff. I hate painting. Wall painting, like it's like GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: not I absolutely loathe doing it. But every couple of every like three, four years, I do it because that's how much I hate it. Should do it more. But it feels so good when you're done to have like a nice clean GIna Beavers: Yes. Timoteo: white wall that's put a new painting on to start. It really feels GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: like a fres there's like a fresh and also painting the The floor, I paint it like that kind of Matisse gray, like newspaper. GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: And it just feels like, all right, it's the end of the summer. I've got a couple more weeks left of kind of blissful, full-time artist fantasy GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: fall semester starts, and you know, gotta go back to crazy routine and teaching duties and administrative stuff and just back and forth. Just create life gets so crazy. That it's nice to feel like I'm gonna start all that with a clean slate studio space. GIna Beavers: It's awesome. That's wonderful. I know that feeling too. I have like I put down this like board on my what is it? It's like cardboard thicker than like brown paper, but like cardboard paper. And it's so dirty and I need to take all the furniture out and like put down new pit Yeah, I have to do it. It's like every morning I go in. Yeah. Timoteo: idea than painting actually. I like that idea 'cause then you can just put down new and it's like Yeah. GIna Beavers: It's new. Yeah. But every day I go in there, I'm like, it bothers me. I like feel like I can't think. Like I need to do this rear and I'm having studio visits the beginning of September, so I'm like, I have to do this before then. but it Timoteo: Yeah. GIna Beavers: would just it would help me so much mentally, but then I just like keep putting it off, feeling overwhelmed. Yeah. Timoteo: Well, I also went around and I kind of cleaned up my studio in general. Like I organized GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: all these like loose papers. I have all these like cut little collage pieces I cleaned up. I organized my, you know, paints. I I just was like, I need to spend because I I don't like to do that during the busy time of the year because I want to be working. I don't want to spend a day or two GIna Beavers: Right. Timoteo: in and I usually clean and organize as I go. I'm not a messy artists like I don't and my studio is not like Francis Bacon's. you can kind of see behind like it's not like that. Yeah. I've never been that way. I'm a I I can GIna Beavers: I was gonna s I was gonna bring him up, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: go paint I can I can work on a painting all day in my studio and wear my regular everyday clothes. I don't have to change. GIna Beavers: Mm. interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Timoteo: even if I paint a little messy, sometimes I get a little messy. GIna Beavers: huh. Timoteo: I still am like it's controlled enough that I don't but GIna Beavers: Yeah, they don't yeah, that's interesting. Timoteo: but you know after after a few years dust and crap really starts to settle, that you need to like sweep it GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Timoteo: all up and you know. Quinn Crisp, GIna Beavers: Sorry. Timoteo: the great writer, said that after three years dust stops accumulating, so you can stop cleaning after three years. But I don't I don't think that that's true. GIna Beavers: Great Gardens would like beg to differ, I think. Like other things start happening. Like raccoons moving in and yeah, no, I yeah. It's so good. Timoteo: Just to have like a clean space to do some clean work is good. Like speaking of clean work, I went to Bortolami Gallery to see Caitlin Keo's solo show on the in the upstairs GIna Beavers: cool. Yeah. Timoteo: space there. And her work is so tight, I love it. Like I I mean, I'm sure there's other people who might criticize how like tight it is. Like it's so, it's just like so deftly executed in a way that GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: It almost feels like a little angel with little brush came in and just did it. but GIna Beavers: So qua. Timoteo: that's what I love about it because actually you look at some of like so she had this series of very contour drawing of roses. They almost look like GIna Beavers: Hmm. Timoteo: those like great Ellsworth Kelly contour line drawings of flowers. That's what they're kind of reminiscent of. And if you just saw them. In a photo, you might say, like, okay, it's a beautiful contour line drawing of a of a plant. Like I've done that, Elsareth Kelly did it. Like it's beautiful, but GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: whatever. But when you see them in real life, you go there, the surfaces of her canvas are so beautiful. First of all, they're like luminescent in a way. And then the brush stroke is so light and airy and dynamic and smooth, but also wispy that you're like. How is this painted? How did she do this? Like if there's a deafness to it that that is just sort of miraculous. So that's where she's getting you with that. And you gotta see them in person. and then I like her like GIna Beavers: So cool. Yeah, I definitely want to see. I love her work. Timoteo: use of like pattern and a weird, like juxta juxtaposed juxtaposed image, like on top of a pattern. Cause that's the kind of like image bullshit painting stuff that I really like to do is like. GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: What does this weird image have to do with this other image? Or how's this pattern relating to like an up part of this image? And and giving you a lot of like mind tricks to think about and make you think about like paint painterly space and and the layering of space and the relationships of images. Like the so Caitlin Keogh is definitely I would I definitely put myself in a in a sort of school of thought that she's in too of how GIna Beavers: So cool. Timoteo: The image operates on a canvas when you're working with multiple images, how lines operate, how you know, space just kind of like works with surface and brush stroke and image and history and ideas all sort of layered up together. So I really liked Caitlin Keog's show Portulami, but it's closed now, so no one can see it. Yeah. GIna Beavers: shit. fuck. Yeah, that's too bad. I love her work. I've loved it for a long time. I'm glad you got to see it. Timoteo: I also I also went to the Klaus von Nixagand gallery, which had a group show called Tech, which was all about artists working with textiles in some way. And I was really intrigued by Travis Boyer's paintings on velvet. So he paints on and behind a velvet, and and like the the paint kind of seeps into that. surface and you get the weird texture of velvet, which if you look at a photo of his work, you might not know what you're looking at. The you have to see those in person because the GIna Beavers: cool. Timoteo: way that the surface is is only visible in person. There's a real living tactility to that painted velvet that in a photo just I mean it looks cool in a photo, but you really don't know what to do. GIna Beavers: You can't really yeah. Timoteo: so that was fun to see those in person. I loved the work of Sohalia Keud, who's an Iranian American artist who was using embroidery on to like to make like weird mystical Persian imagery, like sort of like fantasy imagery of strange animals and sort of pastoral scenes, but using very colorful embroidery into what looks like painting from way afar. But when you come up close, you see that there's like this intense, beautiful embroidery to it of this like mystical, weird Persian imagery. So that was really kind of a beautiful thing to see. So I liked, I felt like a lot of the work I saw in the past week was very surface oriented, which of course is a preoccupation of my own. I'm always fascinated with how I can render a surface with texture. GIna Beavers: Hmm. Timoteo: in a repetitive way to sort of play with light and space. So and that's what that's what I was peeping in Tribeca. GIna Beavers: So cool. I remembered when you're describing those that I went to the Tarot show at the Morgan Library. Have you heard about that? Yes. So Timoteo: I was dying to see that. How was that? I want that's on my life. GIna Beavers: so good. I went and I was able to go with Keith Timoteo: Yeah, tell us what it's about. GIna Beavers: Yeah, well so the one half of it is sort of the historical, like they have actual decks of these cards that led up to the final deck, which I think is now I'm forgetting I wanna say Bosca. I'm forgetting the the name of the final deck that then the Rider Wait, like modern tarot is sort of based on this one that I think was at the Yeah, what what is that one? Is that the right or wait? cool. Timoteo: This is the this is the Ryder Waite deck, which is conceived by Arthur Edward Waite with the drawings by Miss Sybilwaite or Arthur GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: Paula Coleman Smith, designed by Paula Coleman GIna Beavers: Yes. Timoteo: Smith. Yeah. GIna Beavers: Ca Paula Coleman Smith, she based her drawings on this last deck, which I think is called the Bosca. It's like so fantastic. I think they were at the British Museum or somewhere where she was going to reference them. anyway, the whole thing, this line from the from these par card playing games, you know, at court. I mean, and the the cards themselves are like ornate gold on one side. I mean, they just so spectacular, like illuminated manuscripts. And an entire family, like I forget. the name of the Italian family that would work on these as well as do frescoes and all these other kind of that was kind of a fun thing to think about an entire family working on these artistic endeavors. I don't know, I I had this moment in that show where I was just appreciating so much of the beauty of these drawings of different things that p things were based on without yeah, works Timoteo: The works on paper. Right? They're like little gouaches. GIna Beavers: Exactly. Without any sort of name attached, you know? Cause like so much of like looking at art as like the personality attached to it. I don't know, just like appreciating, like, wow, an almost anonymous, like in terms of art history, but like I don't know, just had that realization. Probably why I love a lot of outsider art. It's like this purity, also this idea of you're you're making an artwork for another purpose, and just the purity of that, like the kind of unself consciousness. Consciousness of that. Timoteo: Well in the artwork on a tarot card is is where the where the interpretation comes in. You're interpreting the feeling, the emotional resonance of the archetypal image. So the image has GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: to be operating on a very high level. GIna Beavers: Yeah. I thought it's interesting that it was the you know, the modern tarot is based on a woman's drawings. So every time someone Timoteo: Yeah. GIna Beavers: interprets a tarot deck, the original, you know, the that one, you know, the all of the impulses are coming from a woman a woman's hand, you know, like she did this Timoteo: Did they put the emphasis and the primacy on the riderweight tarot deck as the kind of like archetypal tarot deck of the modern? GIna Beavers: I mean not really. They show other and then they have a whole section of artists who have done different versions of Tarot or so they had like Chris O'Feely, they had like Dorothy Ioni, they had different people that have referenced they had Jess. Do you know do you like Jess? Timoteo: I no I love Jess's work. GIna Beavers: I love Jess's work. When I I feel like I never see it in person and when I do, I'm just like just so Timoteo: Blown away. GIna Beavers: struck. I just they have a beautiful and I think it's called I forget what the name, but it's like the name of one of the cards. It's like a large collage. so they Timoteo: If people are listening and they don't know the artwork of Jess, look him up. It's Jess GIna Beavers: Mm, yes. Timoteo: S S. No other it's hard to look up because that's like a very sort of basic name, but look up like Jess San Francisco artist or you know, you can or Tibardinage gallery shows a lot of Jess stuff and and look up Jess. Very important artist. Gina, did they show the motherpiece tarot GIna Beavers: Right. Sorry you're breaking up. So important. And you s Timoteo: deck? you know the motherpiece tarot deck? GIna Beavers: No. I don't know that one. Timoteo: So the Motherpiece Tarot Deck is one of my favorite tarot decks and all the cards GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: are found. And they're all they all show like indigenous women doing like all kinds of wacky things. And it's one of my favorite. It's by Karen Vogel and Vicky Noble. It's like a very feminist oriented, very sort of archetypal indigenous-oriented deck, which I really like to read both in tandem. The Motherpiece deck with the rider weight deck, because I feel GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: that is very it sort of has almost like a East meets meets west vibe or yin yang kind of vibe of like two different sides of the same coin to get GIna Beavers: Hm. Timoteo: like really interesting image relationships to get something out of the tarot. GIna Beavers: That's really cool. Well, one of the things they had which just like struck me, you know, because these cards the history of these cards is much more like a card playing game. more like the whole idea of like one card trumping another, you know, suits and like who and the ranking and all of that since we were talking about power. and there was this great image that was like, let me see if I can find it. But it it basically had the six suits and it was like beggar servant, artisan, gentleman, noble, emperor. And I was like, okay, where do we fit? We're the number three, maybe the three the two, three. We're like down here. But it was like, my god, this entire like idea of a deck of cards is built on this idea we were talking about earlier about power and who has more power Timoteo: Right. GIna Beavers: and like, you know. but there was also a really fascinating thing about how different kinds of games you were allowed to play because you know the r religious you know, this Christianity, the pervasiveness of Christianity, just like not y you had to be careful about what kinds of games you played, but certain games you were allowed to play and in order to counter certain vices. So they said like chess was to counter pride. you could like the just the way that they set it up was like so funny. Yeah, 'cause chess will bring you to your knees. I'll see if I can find all that. Timoteo: I'm amazed at how many people like that I come in contact with have thought that the tarot deck is some kind of occult thing, like it actually GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: has some kind of anti-Christian spirit to it or something like that. And I'm always shocked GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: by that because I've been reading tarot cards all my adult life and and I use them on so many different levels in my life. And to me, it's it's so much more psychological. Like I look at them through a union. Lens, GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: like I have a lot of books about like Young and the Tarot and Young's ideas of archetypes in the tarot. And so for me, it's not really a magic, it's really a psychology. I mean, there's a psychic reality to it, which is sort of metaphysics, but GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: but I feel like the unlike a lot of people who see the tarot as being some kind of occult thing that has some kind of weird, dark, spiritual divination to it, are actually GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: really misguided and don't know anything about tarot. GIna Beavers: No, totally. Well, you should have seen my I should probably shouldn't say this, but like my evangelical, like very religious mother in law at Christmas when I got Keith the Dolly deck, she just looked at me like, Why are you introducing Satan into my my son's life or something? It was just like, Timoteo: I mean, I believe in demons, I believe in devils, I GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: believe in bad spirits and like but I don't think that the tarot is it can be wound up in that if you want it to be, if you want to approach GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: it from a way, but but but that's but it intrinsically in it is not it is not it's not that way. GIna Beavers: It's not that. So I found this thing. So golden games. You could play games the right way through pious reflection and it makes them into golden games. So in this state, board games are played against gluttony. I don't know why that would be. Card games against lust. Don't know why. Dice against avarice. Shooting against wrath. Which is like, why would shooting be against I don't know. Dancing against sloth. So you're allowed to dance as like a counterpoint to sloth. And heart playing against envy. Which I like that one, 'cause that's like, you know, I'm not going to be jealous. I'm going to be godly. Like but anyway, I just thought that was Timoteo: That all sounds quite arbitrary. GIna Beavers: it does sound more arbitrary, although I did think the chess didn't they say chess? I thought they said chess against pride. Yeah. Timoteo: I can't do ch that's why I can't do chess. It's too much. It's too I can't think that far ahead and don't wanna think it's like the opposite of Zen. I just want when I'm playing a game, I gotta be that's what I like about gambling. It's like you're in the moment. You're just like totally there's a zen to it. Zen in the art of gambling. But chess, GIna Beavers: yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Yeah, totally. Right, right. Timoteo: oof, stresses me out. GIna Beavers: Yeah, exactly. Pri you know, this kills your pride. We gotta get your pride lowered, you know. but anyway, that was a really good show. I definitely recommend it if you're in New York. There's also a Peter Houjar show upstairs. Yes. Timoteo: the contact sheets? Yeah. GIna Beavers: Un unbelievable. So much fun to look at, so many great things there. So Timoteo: I saw that movie Peter Houjar's Day, which stars Ben Bushaw, and he's just like talks GIna Beavers: Yeah, I did too. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: about like his whole day, which is so so great to think about like actually how does an artist spend their whole day? And you know, it depends upon what day you get me. Like some days GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: I do like next to maybe kind of nothing, but some days I do have a day that's like that in the city where I'm seeing this person, seeing that person, and meeting this and doing that and doing that, you know, and so like. You realize that, wow, no, there is an actual the artist sometimes goes through a day in a really amazing and miraculous kind of way. So watch Peter's day to sort of get GIna Beavers: Yeah, yeah. Totally. It was really yeah, such a good yeah, watch the movie and then also go see the show. especially if you're interested if you live downtown, if you've ever lived downtown, if you're interested in downtown or that that milieu in the seventies and eighties and like there's so many great people. Like I saw a great contact sheet with John Waters, like a young John Waters and like it's great. It's great. Yeah. Timoteo: I live a block away from where Peter Houjar last lived, which is where East Village Cinemas is now. And I didn't even realize that. And after I saw GIna Beavers: my god Yeah. Timoteo: Peter Houjar's day, and he was talking about where he lived, I like looked it up and I was like, I live like a block away from where Peter Houjar lived for like a long time, like above the cinema, GIna Beavers: So go Timoteo: like in a loft, which you can still see it there, and it like feels really real. Like you get you kind of the history. GIna Beavers: That's that's so cool. Wait, is it a cinema? Is it a Timoteo: It's a yeah, it's East Village Cinema. GIna Beavers: East Village Cinema on Second Avenue? Or yeah. We Timoteo: Yeah. Yeah. GIna Beavers: we lived on 10th between first and second across from Grace Church, for a lot of years. Timoteo: diagonal from where I live is where Frank O'Hara also lived. There's a plaque that says Frank O'Hara lived in these apartments. So it just that that's what's so cool about like New York is you live even in the present GIna Beavers: my gosh. That's just so cool. Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: day, it's like going almost like going to Pompeii, but a more recent one. It's like there's so many layers GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: of history and people who did stuff. It's cool. Hey, have GIna Beavers: So cool. Timoteo: you seen The Devil Wears Prada too? GIna Beavers: No. Timoteo: Okay, well, I watched it because I GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: like movies that deal with magazines and like culture like that. I wanted to see it. And GIna Beavers: Yeah, it's Timoteo: I was totally blown away that in the middle of the movie they're having some argument in in Merrill Streep's house, who plays she plays like the newspaper editor. And there is a Claire Grill painting in the movie behind Anne Hathaway, and I was like, What the fuck? So I took a screenshot of it and I sent it to Claire and I was like, Claire, how the hell is your painting in the GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: devil product too? Like, how do they get real artwork in a movie like that? I have no idea. And so she told me that there's like a curator who is like a woman in the art world who connects like what art would be appropriate for the character in the movie. And They didn't even get her real painting. They f they saw a painting of hers that she liked. They asked her for permission. They gave her a fee. And they made a high-res reproduction of it for the movie, that then they destroyed it after the movie. Which, GIna Beavers: I love it. Timoteo: you know, is is fine because the artist retains the right to the image. But GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: here's where it's funny: Claire said that the collector who actually had bought that painting. saw it in the movie too and didn't know and was like, how the fuck did they get my painting into that movie? Like they were like, they GIna Beavers: How the hell? Timoteo: they thought they were having a stroke or something because they were like, but I own that painting. That's in my house. You know? GIna Beavers: huh. my gosh, that's so funny. Timoteo: and it's just that was a funny like part of the story. But that's how GIna Beavers: my gosh. Timoteo: she got her painting in there's some curator who and there was a cultured article about this woman who curates the art that goes GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: into movies. She's done it for success succession. She's done it for all these other different kinds of films. So I if I can remember I'll I'll post that or you like look it up in culture. GIna Beavers: So cool, so cool. I love it. Timoteo: It's a cute movie though. I I I really like The Devil Wars Product too because I think anyone who's of basically like our generation or older should watch it because it talks GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Timoteo: so much about the death of like old media, print media. GIna Beavers: Mm, yeah, yeah, yeah. Timoteo: you know, but even younger people should watch it because I think it gives you an idea of where a lot of the way in which the older generation thinks about. GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: media and art and culture and how it's understood and how it's processed. You know, I think that there actually is it's the it's there's reason I love like Project Rumway. Like the new like I'm not a fashionista. I don't really know all that much GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: about fashion, but I love I I love the the creative process of the fashion world. And GIna Beavers: Totally. Timoteo: so that's what I liked about the Devil Wears product because it's sort of about the fashion world but also the magazine world. GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: But it also the Project Runway because it also reminds me of like grad school crit. GIna Beavers: Totally. I feel like Project Run Runway is the closest you could get to like an art competition show. Like they think that that's yeah. And I do think that like I've learned things over the years watching Project Runway about fashion and like how things people's expectations about how things should fit or I don't know. I Timoteo: But I learned about the creative process from Project Runway. Like I and GIna Beavers: yeah, yeah. Timoteo: I also tell my students, like the best TV for you as a creative person, I think is Project Runway because it gives it gives you the idea of like how to build an idea from sort of scratch, how to present it, how to talk about it, how to defend GIna Beavers: Mm. Right. Mm-hmm. Timoteo: it, how to take criticism. Like in this season, Lol Roach is a mean ass motherfucking bitch. He is like, he is. GIna Beavers: Mm. I love Timoteo: as mean as they get, but GIna Beavers: water. Timoteo: but yeah, half the time it's bullshit and I'm like, whoa, you GIna Beavers: Uh-huh. Timoteo: are overstepping and this is inappropriate. But half of the time I'm like, he's actually really holding them to a very high standard and I appreciate that. He's not letting them get away with shit. GIna Beavers: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Have you seen those supercuts of all the Michael Kors quotes? It's like from Timoteo: No, but he was he was great, Isaac was great. Like I've loved so GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: many GIna Beavers: Yeah. They're like the insults, the things that but they're like so often ki kind of right on, you know, like they they see so much crap and they're really like I mean, La Roche Timoteo: But it goes but but it goes back to our whole argument of criticism is I feel like most artists actually would not be able to stand up there and have their artwork GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: criticized in the way that they do on Project Roman. GIna Beavers: that they do. But sometimes the designers don't. Sometimes they fight back and they argue back. They can't they can't Timoteo: Yeah, they do. GIna Beavers: take it either. I mean I think that's such a difficult thing to put something together that also makes someone like look good or strikes like an idea of like high fashion or it's art or whatever. You transform this thing into something that someone actually wears. It's like so mind blowing. La Roach did all of sorry. Timoteo: Yeah. Have you ever I'm sorry, go ahead. GIna Beavers: No, I was just gonna say La Roach did all of Zendaya's looks for the red carpet for the Odyssey like press tour. You should go look at those 'cause they're like incredible. Like 'cause Timoteo: The c GIna Beavers: like as a as a stylist, like they're just Timoteo: I mean, I love Lal Roach. I think he's very creative and very interesting, but he GIna Beavers: Yes. Yeah. Timoteo: brings a lot of his own psychological baggage to his critique. And I'm like, mm, I feel like he's projecting a lot sometimes when he critiques. Hard not to do, but but GIna Beavers: Mm, mhm. Mm hmm. Mm. Yeah. Timoteo: man, I just had this fantasy of the most incredible podcast that could happen is if the like four judges went to like four different exhibitions and judged the exhibition. GIna Beavers: Mm-hmm. Timoteo: as if it was like Project Runway. But you know, you couldn't GIna Beavers: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Timoteo: do that because everyone would hate everyone. Everyone would hate everyone. They'd be like, you're all so mean. Why are you mean? Blah, blah, blah. But I think GIna Beavers: Yeah. Yeah. Timoteo: it would be so interesting to just go and do like group critiques in that way that GIna Beavers: Mm. Timoteo: that that they do in Project Runway. Because I don't think we get that in the art world. And I sort of do wish that. GIna Beavers: Totally. Totally. I I'm as long as we're talking about fashion for a minute. Sorry. I really love this show. I liked your Timoteo: Yeah. you like acting. GIna Beavers: shirt. Looks so good. but Braunwyn Newport, who is a real housewife of Salt Lake City, has a series on Timoteo: Who the hell? GIna Beavers: she honestly she like Timoteo: Who? GIna Beavers: Bronwyn Newport. I think her last name's Newport, but Bronwyn. Timoteo: That's the name I've ever heard. Brahmin Newport? GIna Beavers: Bronwyn. Bronwyn. I'm sorry. Let me just basic bitch out for a second, but she's an interesting character. Timoteo: Okay. All right, whatever. All right, let's go. GIna Beavers: my gosh. On my way back, I know we're almost out of time, but on my way back from Aspen, I I asked The AI, where do I get gluten-free food at the airport? And I was like ordering at this Mexican place and this young woman next to me was also ordering and she's like, Are you celiac? I'm like, Yes. She's like, can we sit together? And turns out she's a former Mormon. She was flying back to Utah. for a funeral and we sat there and talked and we were talking about Bronwyn because I was like the I mean Salt Lake City, she's flying back to like Salt Lake City and like I was like the real housewives of Salt Lake City have become huge. And I said part of it is because they have no self awareness. Like the New York girls, the LA girls, they all know like they're so self conscious because they live in but I think part of it is like Utah is a different beast. Anyway, Bronwyn is one of their one of them. She dresses wildly. Like on the show she wears absolutely insane. I'll send you some pictures of her in like incredible fashions. She has a show on YouTube, it's like thirty minutes where it's called Walk In and she goes into different people's closets. So she does Christian Ciriano's closet. She does Betsy Johnson, the designer, who's like Yeah, she said Betsy Johnson was somebody that she could wear as a Mormon girl because it was like fun and exciting, but it was like modest a little bit, you know, like Anyway, I really love her series. I love her YouTube series. What can I say? It's good. So it's like 30 minutes. You can check out. I I don't know what this has to do with art, except that it feeds it feeds my art. You know, it feeds my like joy. Joy. Yeah. Timoteo: Yeah. GIna Beavers: Anyway, that was a long winded story and we should probably go, yeah, but Timoteo: Cool. Well, we're keeping it unstretched in the hot and humid dog days of August. GIna Beavers: We're doing a I'm still working and painting. yeah. Okay. Timoteo: Yeah, I'm gonna take advantage of the next few weeks of studio GIna Beavers: Yes. Timoteo: time before the fall semester starts and the fall art season and back to really GIna Beavers: Yeah. Timoteo: the crazy of of the world. But it's good. I like I like all I like to take the Fed agosto like August sort of off, hang loose, relax, the Italian one. GIna Beavers: Totally, the way the Europeans do. Yeah, they take August off, right? Yeah. Timoteo: Exactly. Exactly. But hopefully we'll record soon and we'll have a late August episode. Yeah. All right. Aviva Derchi. GIna Beavers: Yes, totally. Okay, cool. All right, bye Tim Bye.