Erik: so let's just be honest. I'm in the marine industry. And if you want to make a million bucks in marine industry, you start with $2 million. So this is a labor of love. This is not a labor where you try to make big, fat stacks of cash. Maryline Bossar: too. what is the role of a magazine like Latitudes and Attitudes? Erik: Latitudes and attitudes exist to inspire cruisers to go sailing. Maryline Bossar: David, how long have you been in the marine industry? David Levesque: 19 years. Maryline Bossar: And what about you, Eric? Erik: I've been in the marine industry for about 25 plus Maryline Bossar: tell me, what is your first memory on a boat? Erik: Stealing my dad's boat, taking it out to impress a girl and getting lost. that was on Lake Erie in Ohio. Maryline Bossar: David, what kind of bow do you own? David Levesque: I own a 1975 Sabre 28. Maryline Bossar: And how many hours do you spend on your boat every year, would you say? David Levesque: about six to eight hours a week from late spring through mid fall. Maryline Bossar: tells me you also do some sailing. What kind of sailing do you do? David Levesque: I race sailboats. race on a J 33 on Tuesday and Wednesday nights, the old fashioned beer can racing. Maryline Bossar: You can be a power boater and a sailor. AMANDA: Yep. David Levesque: Yes, you can be. Maryline Bossar: welcome back to Full Displacement. I'm delighted today to have with Amanda two guests from the Three Sheets podcast, Eric and David. We, Amanda and I were actually guests on their podcast recently, and we invited these two industry journalists, boat lovers to come and speak about what's on their mind today. And without further ado, welcome to the show, Eric and David, how are you? Erik: Doing well, thank you very much. Super excited to be here. guys are absolute rock stars and anything we can help with and love to share with you our insights. AMANDA: Welcome back guys! David Levesque: We're off to a good start, aren't Okay. AMANDA: Absolutely. David Levesque: Yeah. Maryline Bossar: So Eric, do you have an elevator pitch? You're like this media guru in the boating world. But what is your intro when people ask you outside of boating, hey, Eric, who are you? What do you do? What do you say? Erik: All right, so let's just be honest. I'm in the marine industry. And if you want to make a million bucks in the marine industry, you start with $2 million. So this is a labor of love. This is not a labor where you try to make big, fat stacks of cash. This is something that we have a passion for. My family has been voting for a very long time. My dad's been publishing voting magazines since the 60s. Maryline Bossar: too. Erik: In the 2000s when I got out of college, I took over the reins of Scuttlebutt magazine and have been publishing that for the last, what, 25 years. And about four years ago, we purchased Latitudes and Attitudes magazine. And that's where my whole world went upside down. And I've been going crazy ever since. But my wife also... Maryline Bossar: Amazing. Erik: She heads a digital ad agency called Marine Marketing Solutions, fully focused on the marine space. So we're all about the marine industry here, reporting on it, enjoying it, and offering our two cents on what it's all about. Maryline Bossar: And it's actually a full family affair. Your daughter, at least one of your daughters, maybe both of your daughters have worked for the magazine. Tell us about that. How is that working with your kids? Erik: Yeah, so we do an event with our Latitudes and Attitudes readers every year called Share the Sale. It's a carryover from what Bob used to do from Latitudes and Attitudes in the years past, where we basically just pick a point on the map and say, let's go there and do a charter. And we ask all our readers to join us. And in about two weeks, we're going to go to Tahiti with about 80 voters. We're chartering 12 different catamarans. going to go have some fun. And as a result of bringing our daughter on board, she's been heading up the marketing for us on that and being our liaison between us and our adventurers that are going on this Share the Sail adventure with us. And she is just absolutely knocking it out of the park. Zoe's my hero. Maryline Bossar: That's great. Can we hear from David next? David, how did you get here? AMANDA: That's all. David Levesque: I'm not sure. How do I follow that? I kind of fell into the boating industry by accident back in 2008. I was working on a product line, a natural product, developed a brand called Canberra and Canberra Gel and got a call from a Megiyacht supplier in Fort Lauderdale that asked if it would work on the ventilation system of a super yacht. Maryline Bossar: Mm-hmm. David Levesque: And my first question was, what's the super yacht? And now I'm here. That's short story. But along the way, I mean, I really just learned the boating industry starting in 2008 doing boat shows. You know, started walking Newport, walking Annapolis, go out to the old Strictly Sail. We all remember the old Strictly Sail shows that existed. I wish they were still around. You know, pre-COVID and all that. Maryline Bossar: Yeah. David Levesque: And I mean, I was really familiar with Latitudes and Attitudes magazine. I was an advertiser in the book for a while. I also worked for a company out of California called Force Bar Products, which makes sailboat hardware and stuff. so I was actually working in the Fort Lauderdale Boat Show back in 2009, I think. And Eric came walking down the aisle trying to sell advertising. And how'd that go, Eric? You finally. AMANDA: Did you sell them? Erik: No comment. David Levesque: But it was just, it turned out to be a great partnership with his publication and learning the industry. And when the opportunity came up to take over Latitudes and Attitudes, Eric came to me and said, let's do it. And we've been doing it. It's been incredible. We've been growing the heck out of this thing. Maryline Bossar: a question of Eric first before we dig deeper into today's conversation. I'd like to hear about a time when you almost threw in the towel, but you didn't because boating is such an awesome industry and we all love it so much. Can you reflect on one of those times where it was just really tough and you had to hang on? Erik: Yeah, so this morning I'm hanging on my jacuzzi smoking a cigar and I'm thinking to myself, why in the heck am I even doing this? I just don't, I don't understand it anymore. It's, it's, it's just, it's, it's, it's hard. No, so, it's not an option. when you're in the Marine space, you don't change industries. You change shirts with a different logo on it. I don't know very many, if any people that I've met over the last 30 years who have decided to leave the industry and or not come back. So it's a passion for everybody that's in it. And anytime that it ever gets rough and heavy, like 2025 kind of stunk guys. I mean, I'll be quite honest with you. 2026 is a struggle as well, but we've got a little light at the end of the tunnel. And so in all of the years that I've been in this industry, we've always been on an uptick. and now we're plateauing and starting to go down a little bit and while it's a little unnerving, it's the marine space. We're going to find a way to make it work. We always have and we always will. David Levesque: You know what, Marilyn, I'll add something to that too. When I was working with the product lines, OEM, aftermarket, all that kind of stuff, my background was retail. So I loved the chase of trying to make something sell off a shelf. How do you do that, right? And for all those years I worked in the industry, the opportunity to work with Eric and the opportunity to publish this magazine allows me to work on the industry. And that's the way I look at it is I want to make this industry more accessible to everybody. I might be jumping over outlines here, we had Eric and I talk about this all the time. And every time I go to like sail America conferences and things like that, I hear people talk about the fact that we need younger boaters. You know, it's an aging industry, we younger boaters. How do you do that? You have to break down the wall and the barrier, that imaginary barrier that exists where people think it's really expensive to become a voter. You know what I mean? Maryline Bossar: Well, the truth is it can be really expensive. Before we go there and reflect back on that episode within Full Link and all the things we learned, Amanda, you want to say a word about our shared passion. It turns out 2025, yeah, it kind of sucked. That's when we launched our company and we're still here, but we did it from our heart. David Levesque: sure. AMANDA: Yes. Both Marilyn and I have humble roots, where our boats were... Definitely under the threshold of what we as brokers now would want to work with and help someone into a boat. My first boat was $38,000. Maryland's was slightly above that, but not much more. And that being said, we were those people who had a passion that wanted to be in this industry, get out there boating. And we had to start with humble roots. And we understand that a lot of people are coming from that same point. And the marine yacht broker industry really does cater to a crowd that is affluent, There is a complete disconnect in a certain portion of this market that's not even catered to, that has not helped in any way, or form. And we brought you guys on today to help us not complain about certain platforms that are out there, to explain what's happening behind the scenes from real people, from real boaters, because you guys are the ones that are dealing with them, that are hearing from them, that are getting the feedback. Us as brokers are hearing about it a little bit, but Remember, we're in that segment that is the affluent, We're not even touching the largest class that we'll get into a little bit more. Maryline Bossar: if I can add one more thing, really, the beauty of this podcast actually has been that the feedback is overwhelmingly positive and it's going to continue to help a lot of people that would otherwise be totally left out from the brokerage industry. And so we feel so encouraged because it's like you said, David, we have a mission to find the role we can play in continuing to support and grow our industry. So we took the angle of Let's put as much boating in the days you've got left. Let's start today. And so it's all about the education, understanding how things work. What kind of boat should you get into? Looking at a boat, what does that look like? What are the questions? Insurance? Insurance isn't that hard. Here is insurance. We talk through all of these aspects and we bring that to the masses through our channel, humbly, and people are resonating with that. So thank you for being a part of that conversation. David Levesque: you AMANDA: Yes. Maryline Bossar: As Amanda alluded already, are gonna talk about a few things we have in the works, but the primary discussion of today is a little bit of that sticky point that the industry has come to in the past few years. David, why don't you give us the synopsis of that article that you wrote last fall for Lads and Nets, and how did that land with your audience? David Levesque: Well, thought it was either going to win me a Pulitzer or get me fired. you know, was pretty stoked. I'm still here. I'm still here. Let me just back up real quick to something you were saying about just the industry as a whole. Here's the thing about all four of us. We work in the industry. We make a living in the industry. But we care about the industry because we're all voters, right? So we're all affected by what's going on in this. Maryline Bossar: Are you still here? Did you win the poll-ither? Erik: you David Levesque: Eric had come to me, Eric works with a lot of our advertisers. He talks with advertisers, not just with Lads and As, but also his other publications. So he deals a lot with brokers and it's been this albatross that's been growing and just dragging things down. you know, brokers can't afford to go ahead and advertise and brokers can barely afford to even do boat shows anymore. you know, Eric came to me and said, I think you need to write an article about this. So I started doing some research for it, started talking to some people, went back to the source, you know, and started diving into it. and listen, I learned a lot about it too, in the research for that article, I learned about what's going on with everything. And the, one of the major alarming things for me, I love boat shows. And we've talked about this before. I love going to a show. like the just the energy of a show, not just seeing friends and colleagues and whatever, colleagues who have become friends, you know, but it's like just the energy surrounding it. And not just that, but there's beauty. There's beauty in these gorgeous boats everywhere. Right. And if brokers can't afford to put boats in boat shows, then the boat shows are going to die. I mean, you can't, you can't sustain a boat show on products and services alone. And you know, cutco knives and you know, air purifiers and whatever and massage therapy. You got to have the real stuff, right? So yeah, that's kind of what the genesis of the whole thing was. Let's investigate it further. Maryline Bossar: Yeah. I'll make sure to link to that article actually in the description below for our readers, watchers, listeners to catch up on. But the TLDR, right? If I can put it this way, is the cost to advertise on the major listing platforms has gone through the roof. Brokerages that we're looking to advertise the listings. are seeing their bank accounts depleted strictly by just paying to play the game. Meanwhile, the service that these platforms offer hasn't changed significantly. The lead generation has not gotten better. Amanda, you can speak to this. You have been doing this for over 10 years now. If... AMANDA: And I don't sell high-end yachts. I don't have very many boats listed. I had a dozen of boats that, you know, a small brokerage firm could handle with a advertising budget and price point that was reasonable. And then over the past three years, that advertising budget was doubled and then doubled again and then doubled again. And then the fragmentation within the industry made sure that you had to advertise not just only on Yacht but Yachter, and now on Yachtway, and now on Ridespotes, and now on all of these different platforms just to try and get the same eyeballs that were maybe on one place, but now no one knows where to go. basically 85 % of the brokers worldwide have listed on Yacht World. And that kind of dependency made the whole industry vulnerable. How do we dig ourselves out of this trap and move forward with an industry that we're all passionate about? Like boating's not going away. And we all went forward. Maryline Bossar: The problem ultimately though is that because the response to those price hikes has already led to fragmentation, it's now really hard to bring everything back together. So what David's assessment was is, there's all these great solutions on the platform. Are they going to succeed? Well, the minute you kind of dilute the whole game, it's harder. Buyers don't know really where to look for boats and not miss anything because that doesn't exist. By the way, it's gone. You kind of have to look multiple places now. AMANDA: Yes. Absolutely. David Levesque: Yeah. Maryline Bossar: The cost continues to go up because you have to pay for these multiple platforms. David, I can tell you one thing. You had highlighted Yotter as one of the opportunities. That's the industry initiative. The very problem of Yotter is that they haven't gotten the adoption rate that they needed and they are not really pushing hard to get to where they need to be. And as a result, it's kind of stalled like the number of listings when you look. I wish it were better. We have been advertising our listings there. We can all comment on performance of leads as brokers. Ask a broker on the dock. They will tell you. You have to now find a way to generate your own audience and eyeballs and leads. So where does that leave us? David Levesque: Well, to back up to what you had said earlier about like what was our readership response to that particular article. It was largely positive. It came out right before the Annapolis Boat Show. I found it interesting that several brokers that, quite frankly, didn't really pay too much attention to Attitudes and Attitudes Magazine were suddenly coming over to our booth and saying, hey, well done. Thank you for highlighting this. Thank you for shedding a light on it. AMANDA: Well, before... David Levesque: And look, we're not the only publication that did something about this. There's been some other articles. know, Marilyn, I knew you were referenced and interviewed for a couple of different ones. I just, you know, look, at the end of the day, what I was looking at is I wanted our readership to understand that there were other places they could go look for a boat. They did not have to go to Yacht World. And a lot of these smaller brokers are struggling to survive because of the costs to list their boats. Go directly to some of them. go to some of these other sites, support these mom and pop brokers, as I would call them. That's what we were kind of hoping maybe our audience would start to pay attention to. I quite honestly, someone wants to buy a boat, they don't give a crap whether they're just going to go look for a boat, right? But some of the stuff that I had found out was that a lot of the listings were inaccurate. There was misinformation. Pricing was different across different platforms. Photos of the boat were even inaccurate on many listings. So it's like, can you, as a buyer, how can you trust where the hell you're looking for a boat? How do you know? mean, short of sight seeing, like going to a yard somewhere and looking at a boat, you have to trust what you can look at through your computer screen. And if you can't trust it, then where do you go? What do you do? AMANDA: Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've heard clients say, went to go look at this boat and it was nothing like it was advertised to be. Maybe those were photos from eight years ago when the boat was great, but they get there and it's all covered in green moss and had been sitting there forever. So it was inaccurately represented and there is no policing body behind there to then follow up because it's basically paid for by the people that are putting the listings out there. So they're not going to police themselves. obviously. Maryline Bossar: And it's much harder to manage all your inventory in those different places, David. Why are the prices different? Because now the broker almost have to have a full-time admin just to manage their listings. We have a full-time admin. Almost full-time. AMANDA: Yeah, prices do change and you start with a certain listing price and a lot of the times you're going to have to lower that price before someone comes to the table. And then to do it now on five or six different platforms, sometimes things do get lost in the shuffle. David Levesque: So the primary audience for Latitudes and Attitudes is mostly sailboat related cruisers. People that are looking for that boat to go cruising and untie from the dock and go further. Eric's other publications, and he can speak to this, Great Lake Scuttlebutt, then Gulf Coast Scuttlebutt, Southeast Scuttlebutt, there's a very heavy power focus in those publications as well. So Eric, maybe you can speak to some of that. Erik: I'd love to join the conversation. Thank you. David Levesque: You AMANDA: you Erik: So I've been around the industry for a great many years. When I first started the magazine that I started with Scuttlebutt, 80 % of the people who advertised in the magazine were brokers. They used to put together all their lists, put them inside of the magazine, and it would just be page upon page upon page of brokerage listings. And then every so often you might see a really avant-garde advertiser put a boat on his brokerage listings. A picture of a boat. So the technology was available at the time that you could take a picture and recopy it in a magazine. Maryline Bossar: you Erik: So we started doing these wonderful things like putting in different styles of boats that these brokers were offering and then just putting a brokerage listing section in the back part of the boat. So I think that what has happened over the years is that people have drank the Kool-Aid. They really believe that the only solution as a broker to be able to connect with boaters is through the internet, is through computers. They're assuming that everybody's in their gym shorts drinking coffee, looking at their computer, searching for boats. And that's the way that it's going to be for everybody. And what YOWorld did early on was they started creating websites for these brokers by getting their business and now they've got brokers that are dependent on their company so that they could have a website. Maryline Bossar: Yeah, that's true. Erik: So the combination of all these things have led to everybody thinking, like if you're in a mine shaft and you've got a vein of gold that you're digging your way out of there and you're ignoring all the other gold vines that are around you, veins that are around you, because you're only digging in one. And then you've got everybody and their brother digging that same vein. So the competition is heavy. The resources are light. The number of people who actually buy a boat through the internet is sparse. So everybody's focused on that and they're all competing with one another and no wonder some guy who sold the pickaxes comes along and makes all the money for everybody. Because you can't mine without the pickaxe. So that's kind of the challenge. They're not... They're not seeing what else is out there. And what used to be out there before, I've talked to brokers and dealers that sells 50 % of their entire year at their one winter boat show. At one boat show. and relied on the local and regional advertising that they did to engage with those communities through print, radio, TV, whatever it was, those individual communities and more of a grassroots than New Dealer or Fallout. And you know there are still a lot of brokers that are out there that would like to do those things but they can't because they're handcuffed. They have to have their boats on some boats group website whether it's Boat Trader, Yacht World or whatever or with all of the competition now for the same thing there's 20, 30 different brokerage sites that are out there. They're all looking for this magic silver bullet solution and it's not there. It's just been diluted through the competition. So they might be able to pay the bills but the bills that they're paying is to the company that's running their listings. They're not making anything more. They're not utilizing their skills as a broker to negotiate these great deals and earn commission and be able to provide a life for themselves. They're paying for somebody else's Rolls Royce. And that's just my opinion. some of this works. Don't get me wrong. And it has been for like the last 10, 15 years to a degree, but it's getting worse and worse and worse and worse. And now, unfortunately, the boaters are the ones that are being affected by this. It's not just the dealers losing money in their own wallets as a result of this, but the boaters themselves have less options, less choices, are... AMANDA: Well, Erik: limited to the variety of online platforms that are out there and only them. They have no other ways unless they go by Marina by Marina and look for a for sale sign. AMANDA: Yeah. One of the things we call it, Marilyn and I term it the lazy broker syndrome. Basically what's happened from these internet platforms is the consumer who is selling their boat demands that their boat be listed on one certain platform. And if it's not there, they will pull their listing from that tiny, small mom and pop company and put it with one of these bigger companies who can list their boat on this big platform. can name them Yacht World. Maryline Bossar: Yeah. AMANDA: right? And we've seen this happen over and over again. I've seen brokerage companies who actually boycotted the big boys and moved on to the Yachter platform and lost brokers who worked for their firm because of this fact, because the sellers demanded that they were on this one platform because they thought that was the end all be all. I can tell you this, some of our leads come from the big platform. Most of our leads come from the stuff that we generate and do ourselves. Some of our leads come from the other fragmented platforms. You have to do more than one and you can't just sit back. put your listing on Yachtworld and then expect to get calls. And that's the lazy broker syndrome that people have fallen into over the last five years. And now we're realizing that doesn't work anymore. And it's funny. I don't know if people know this and I want to expel this and I don't know if you guys even know this. I'm the back end of each platform. So you have the forward facing public platform that's called Yachtworld that everybody goes to Yachtworld.com and looks and browses through the listings. end that brokers pay to see see a lot more information than what they actually put on the public facing platform. And it's broker to broker. And we can see if a boat is open for co-brokerage or closed to co-brokerage. The public doesn't see this. So let's say you're looking for X yacht, okay? A 27 foot Boston Whaler. And you go and you know your client is looking for this and you're looking on Yacht World and... browsing for that perfect Boston Whaler for your client and you come across one that says closed for co-brokerage Okay, but it's the perfect boat that your client is looking for guess what for me as a broker and it's not my listing that means I can't make any money if I actually try to bring the buyer that I have for this boat and It's funny that 66 % of the power boats under 200 K listed on this large platform are closed to co-brokerage. And the public doesn't know this. David Levesque: Mm. Maryline Bossar: I would even go further to say the sellers often do not know this because some brokers are not very transparent or they don't take the time to educate whatever their reason is. Eric, if you're selling a sailboat and it's $110,000 that close to co-brokerage setting may not be as high. I think it was closer to about a third. But still, you need to know, Eric, if your broker has opened AMANDA: Yes. Maryline Bossar: the listing to co-brokerage because if not, it means that this broker is trying to find the buyer by themselves. And it's much harder to do. But we don't have these conversations. Most people we talk to don't even, have never heard of co-brokerage. So we start by explaining, and if today someone has a boat listed anywhere, you should ask your broker today, is my boat open for co-brokerage? Erik: Something that you mentioned in your podcast with Peter in your conversation when you and I had talked before. Tell me again about the percentage of boats that are sold in this country that are under 200,000 or is it 150 something like that? What is that number again? Maryline Bossar: Yeah, we're going to bring that number up. We actually had computed this for ourselves to fully understand the size of the brokerage market. It's around 96 % of boats sold are sold without a broker because their price points do not make them desirable for brokers to chase. Erik: Yeah. AMANDA: And Erik: Well, I just going say that's my point. if you ask anybody that's listening to this podcast to please stand up, if you have a boat that's under 200,000, you know, the vast majority of people out there standing up, those people are ignored because they're not going to make, the brokers are not going to make as much commission on those people. So what happens that 96 % of all the boats that are out there that need help in moving their boats? This is the real problem. The huge elephant in the room that nobody is addressing. Now, I will say one thing about Yotter. IYBA, the International Yacht Brokers Association, created this platform called Yotter. And it was the great white hope. Everybody wanted to get behind it because it was all the brokers in the country saying, OK, we will build this incredible platform so that we don't have to rely on spending all of our money to some huge corporation that is run by investors that are only looking for you know dollars and don't really care about our industry. So Yadda was created as a result of that. It got so close, just so close but it fell short just at the last minute. they didn't have a sold bolts model. They didn't have really the back end that needed to be accompanied like this other huge group. Maryline Bossar: Probably that one. AMANDA: you Maryline Bossar: Exactly. We don't have analytics. We cannot tell our clients how many people have looked at their listing, how many clicked, how many did this and that. We know, and it's not very good on Yacht World, our average click-through rate is under 1.5%. But I can't compare to anything. I know our average click-through rate on our YouTube walk-throughs is 8 to 9%. On Yacht Earth, I don't know. Erik: Well, I guess what the point is, all in all, is that everybody... acknowledges that there's a problem. There's a massive problem with how boaters move their boats nowadays. And for people like us in the industry where it's our job to connect boaters with boating businesses, we're pulling our hair out. You can see I have very little hair left because I'm pulling it out trying to figure out how I can actually help the boaters to enjoy their boating lifestyle more while when they go through the boat buying process it becomes extremely difficult. Maryline Bossar: No, there is. Agreed. Erik: Granted, a lot of the brokers are putting on a happy face and the boaters don't even feel it, but we're getting to the point where the boaters themselves are going to start to feel it. And that's kind of the frustrating thing. really, I'd love for you guys to talk more about how do you affect a change for people with boats under 200,000 that are getting ignored because of what's going on in the marketplace. David Levesque: you Maryline Bossar: It's a very valid point. This route that people are forced into because of the price point or because of their financial realities, that they are upside down on the boat, there's no room for a broker commission. Where do they go? Well, guess what? The people who can formulate that answer have this much incentive to find the solution. the definition of brokers. And going against it is... professional suicide, that's what Amanda called it. We've been thinking about this for a long time. so, for sale by owner is a reality, it will continue to be there and instead of fighting it, we have decided to help support it. And that still gives somebody the chance to try and list their boat on their own or buy a boat without a broker if that is their choice. And none of the platforms facilitate that today. AMANDA: Yeah, professional suicide. Yes, we absolutely have. Embrace it. Maryline Bossar: And we're saying it doesn't have to be in opposition with the art brokerage. It can just supplement it where as needed. As we know, there's multimillion dollar buyers that don't use brokers or sellers. They figure it out on their own and trust me, they have found a way. But what's great about this idea, this concept is that we're actually now going to be able to help the 96 % of the market. So, Amanda, you want to share a few words more about this? AMANDA: So we clearly saw in the launch of current yachts that there was a huge market that was being completely ignored. The majority of the market, the people, the average boaters, the people like Marilyn and I, when I first found my boat, I went to sailboatslisting.com. I don't even know if it's still up. I think it is. But there are ghost listings on there that are probably still up and for sale from the time I was buying my boat like 10 years ago so outdated and so old. The only other place that people go that we've heard is Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist. And we all know the amount of scammers and things that you can get into on those platforms. They know nothing about boats. There is no guidance. There is no help. And to do the math of a boat under $200,000, we're talking about David Levesque: Yeah. AMANDA: Let's say, let's take a $200,000 boat, okay? 10 % commission, that's $20,000. That's $10,000 to each party that comes. Then you have to split that with the brokerage house. That's $5,000, okay? That someone is going to put into a lot of time and energy. It takes just as much time to sell, probably more. I would beg to say it takes more time to sell a 15 to 20 year old $200,000, 150 to $200,000 sailboat than it does a new nicer $700,000 catamaran and what would you choose if you were a broker? Where would you put your time and effort into that boat that's going to take days of your time after survey and travel and showing different boats and going through the standing rigging and the running rigging and the engine and then all the different details of a sailboat that is much harder to sell at a $5,000 payoff? Or would you go to that higher end million dollar price point? And this is where the industry has just ignored this small little section. And I'm not saying that people should work days and days for $5,000. I'm saying let's give them a platform that actually lets them do it themselves because most of these boaters do. If they're already going to Facebook and they're already going to Craigslist, that's what they're doing. So we set up this company called Fizzboat, F-S-B-O-A-T. It's for sale by owner, marketplace, boat marketplace. So it's coming out because we recognize quickly that this segment of the industry has been completely ignored. And we are going to guide people with real boat selling knowledge, through the process and handhold it step by step along the way. David, I see you wanting to say something. David Levesque: No, I'm just, I'm like, you're brilliant. You guys are brilliant. I mean, I... AMANDA: Yeah. Erik: So what is this, an app? Is it an app? Is it a website? Is it a listings platform? What is it? If I'm a voter, how am I going to engage with this? Maryline Bossar: to start it will be. And I know you tried to sell that dinghy, Eric. Now we're going to talk about this afterwards. AMANDA: Yeah, it's a double-sided marketplace where you can buy and sell. Maryline Bossar: But it goes farther because when we came up with this idea, we just thought, well, we can't really just simply compete with, you know, marketplace. That's what people like. It's free. It's easy. It's not great. Searching a boat on there is kind of a disaster. a nightmare really. And it doesn't solve a lot of those problems that we see with even boat trade listings. It's just, they're clunky and you get harassed by AMANDA: hammers. Maryline Bossar: you know, bottom feeder brokers, I call them the people that try to make you feel bad for trying to sell your boat. Like I've tested this because I listed my boat privately. I have received so many text messages harassing me when I would say no, turn them away. They would like call me names. It was just a really horrible experience. So we started as a listing platform to your point. We wanted to allow buyers and sellers to transact. And the first step was you're going to use third party verification of your identity. So we built trust inside this platform right away. So you upload your driver's license. I don't hold your driver's license, neither does Amanda. This is going to be a third party integration whose specialty is to do ID verification. So we use a platform to do that. And over time we realized if we just make the connection, it's okay. AMANDA: reification. Maryline Bossar: They need more. These people need help. And so how do we come up with this idea? I'll tell you. We were trying to run projections for how well current yachts can do in its first year and second year. And then we realized that we're looking at the wrong set of numbers if we're trying to help the most people. Because our mission is actually to help the most people put more boating in the days they have left. Like, let's go. Let's do this right now. AMANDA: Get on the water. Yep. Maryline Bossar: And when people come to us, to your poor Amanda, when their boat is $100,000 and we crush their dream by saying, thanks for watching the podcast, but we can't help you. That's a horrible answer. So it feels bad. AMANDA: And it feels bad. It feels bad. Like I got to make a living so I can't help you. When I bought a boat that was less than that. Yep. Maryline Bossar: Yeah, exactly same. My vote was less than $100,000. It comes down to what can we do for these people? And so we went a step further than just a platform with ID verification. We are building a transaction platform where people can use sample documents, put them through digital signature, and put their monies through an escrow account. Also third party, not us managing that. A true first rate. third party integration to do escrow management. This is how people should transact safely. At this point, the people can talk to each other freely. But we allow them to connect through the platform after they've done their identity verification. Some of the tools require that you become a member to access the best of the best of the platform. But as a buyer, there's zero friction. You want to engage with somebody. The only thing you have to do is show who you are. My name is Joe Schmo. Here is my ID. I'm real. I'm going to message the seller because I want to buy his boat and he's down the street from me or he's the next town over. So we wanted to make it easy for those who know what they're doing. And we wanted to make it easier for those that don't. And step by step, whether you're preparing an offer, have submitted an offer in God O'Counter, are scheduling a survey and a trial run, are negotiating post-survey, we're guiding you. We're like, hey, you're at this step. This is what comes next. Do you want more help? And actually, through this, we also taught, and actually my husband is the creator of a large language model that we taught. how to sail boats too. AMANDA: you Erik: Are we talking AI? David Levesque: So Maryline Bossar: So think of it, yes, it's an AI assistant. We call it deck hand, decks, if you know her well, she's a woman. She's going to guide you through the steps and it's really remarkable. AMANDA: Yeah. This is her name in short. Erik: she have a British accent? Does she have a British accent? Maryline Bossar: Not at the moment, no. AMANDA: No, darling. Erik: I'm sorry, I had to throw that out there. Maryline Bossar: But that's it. How do we demultiply what we know without being involved in every transaction that we cannot possibly manage? Again, there's hundreds of thousands of boats that change hands every year. We can't possibly help them all in a cost-effective way. And to wrap things up around this service-based, you know, a la carte services, the AI assistant is great. It gets you 90 % there, but it's not perfect. We all know the disclaimers, AI can make mistake. So then we offer a broker on call service where people can schedule a call with somebody like Amanda, myself, Austin, other folks from the team. And we call this Call a Broker. It's $99 for 30 minutes. Hey, the AI told me ABC I was going to do XYZ. Is that cool? I pull this data. What do you think? And for 30 minutes, if you're prepared, you can get all of your answers checked out. your strategy verified, you can feel empowered and more confident in buying that boat. Erik: So let me just. AMANDA: And it's not just in buying the boat, it's in selling the boat and listing the boat and figuring out, well, how do I know how much to list this boat for and to sell it for? And the comps and market analysis, like all of these things that people need to know. Erik: Just wrapping my brain around it, maybe doing a high level view of this, because I know it's an issue. We referenced your meeting with the fine folks over at InfoLink. They keep track on all the statistics and all the data regarding the marine industry. What you've discovered is 96 % of the people who are out there who own boats, own boats that are under 200 grand. 4 % of them are over 200 grand. Those are the kinds of people that absolutely should be using a professional broker for deals that are north of that. The other 96 % are left out kind of in the cold or dealing with a broker who's just trying to figure out how he can make the most. All of those brokers are fighting on all these different MLS lines, the multiple listing line, websites and platforms to try to position themselves to be able to get the sale. I get it and they're starting to suffer. So you're creating a new platform that basically allows somebody to sell their boat by themselves with an AI assistant or help by getting a hold of a broker and talking to that broker for a certain fee on an hourly basis. To be able to help somebody sell their boat if they're in that position where all these other professional brokers are selling boats that are north of 200, you're stuck with a boat that's under 200, what do you do? You have a solution for that. Am I in the ballpark? AMANDA: Yep. And that's Yep. Right. It's that's exactly it. And we've tried to make it as simple as easy and easy as we can because we recognize that it's the The average boater, to be fair, is 60 and above at this point. And we all know that 60 and above are not the most technically savvy. And this is an online platform. So we tried to make it very, very simple and intuitive for people to be able to list their boats, to be able to buy their boats, to be able to talk to the buyer, to ask questions, and make it as simple as possible because we realized that the demographic, the age group of the people that we're catering to, people that are not that technically savvy. And so we've done our best to guide and to show each step along the way so they're not like, well, now what? What do we do next? Erik: Both these online platforms now take you from step and don't let you go to next step until you completed previous step. So you guys know. Okay. AMANDA: There is no next step. Maryline Bossar: That's the thing that most people don't realize. When you go to a listing site, like Boat Trader, first of all, your entry level to play is two photos. Please, when you list your boat there, you're on your own to do everything else. Qualifying the buyer, finding a safe place to meet, handling the money, purchase agreement, what does that look like? So we want to take the pain points out of the process. And we're actually encouraging people to keep their boats listed on Facebook Marketplace, if they like the exposure, simply direct a potential buyer to the Fistboat platform, where that listing already exists and the person can submit their offer and take it from there. So it's a set of tools. It's a process. It's as much as you want it to be. And it's very affordable. So I mean... AMANDA: Do you to Maryline Bossar: Give it a try. Go to Fizzboat.com and tell us what you think. David Levesque: this a brand new thing like talked about first on this particular podcast? See? That's twice now. For some reason, Eric and I always end up talking about breaking things. had an interview we did on our podcast with our buddy over at the National Hurricane Center, and it's a brand new item that the National Hurricane Center had just come out with, like the day we did the podcast. AMANDA: Yep. Yes. Yeah. Maryline Bossar: Actually it is. Erik: Breaking news, baby, breaking news. David Levesque: Breaking news, breaking news. AMANDA: Yeah, it is. is breaking news. We'd love for you guys to. Maryline Bossar: Yes. Erik: No, I'm excited for you guys. think it's fantastic. When are you going to have it out in beta phase so people can go out there and try to use it? Maryline Bossar: So by the time this episode will be published, the beta will be opened by invitation. If you catch this recording later, you may already be in the first iteration of the Fizzboat site. so go check it out. F-S-B-O-A-T dot com. The physical concept resonates with a lot of people. And I wanted to add one other thing because in your summary, Eric, you said, well, the boats over a certain amount of money, they're going to want a broker. Actually not always. And I had this conversation with Amanda. think it was November, November of last year, And we had to like, AMANDA: you Maryline Bossar: make some decisions around how we were going to build this platform, this new company. And she was adamant that there was no way we can offer this to boats beyond, I think, $400,000. It took her months to come around to the idea that we shouldn't strap this. We shouldn't cap it. We shouldn't restrict it. That is the opposite of what we're trying to do. But for a broker to accept that we're going to voluntarily give up that piece of the pie if the person wants to do that, let them. AMANDA: the opposite. It's a lot of work. Yeah, let them do it. Maryline Bossar: A lot of people we expect will change their mind and come to your broker when they realize, it's a lot and I don't know what I'm doing. But some actually do know in their defense, they know what they're doing. Let them give it a try. Erik: I guess it doesn't matter. just numbers right? I mean if it's four hundred and thirty two thousand dollars or it's forty two thousand dollars, there's just another zero on it. All the steps to exchange the title from one person to another is the exact same whether it's forty three thousand or four hundred and thirty thousand. Is that correct? Okay so there is no limit on the other side. AMANDA: exactly the same. Yeah. It is at 100 % Maryline Bossar: Yeah, the FizzBelt platform has no commission. To be clear, you pay to advertise your listing if you are a seller. It's $49.99 a month at time of recording. There is a membership option to give you access to some tools that are pretty darn amazing that we pay for to put them on and manage the output. like data verification, online signature, those are services that are paid for. That membership is less than what you pay at West Marine when you go buy a new impeller like Erik: Thank Maryline Bossar: Come on, we're talking 6.99 a month. And then after that, you're done. There is one caveat, which is that there is a fee to use the escrow service and it's dependent upon the price of the boat and that is on the buyer side. But if you're buying a boat, you wanna pay that few hundred bucks because that is your protection. can't step away from that. A lot of people don't understand the risk they take when they hand out. AMANDA: $6.99 a month. is to choose whether... David Levesque: Thank Maryline Bossar: know, cashier's checks or they cash in a cashier's checks and they don't realize that it was fraudulent. the source of scams that exist out there are so wide. We're saying, listen, the quickest way to eliminate that is just put your money in an escrow account and it's managed by milestones. So once, you know, due diligence is complete, that's it. You just can release the funds. If the boat was being financed, no problem. The disbursement will take care of the loan. So the seller's boat will be free and clear and the buyer's got his boat. You're already happy. AMANDA: and it's completely safe and it's not us doing it, it's a third party company. Erik: and ask you a quick question. Just a real quick question. Alright, Devil's Advocate, you ready? Let's say I'm a broker and I've got 50 listings and I don't want to spend the six grand a month that these big multi-listing platforms are going to charge me. So I find out about what you're doing. So I'm going to go on there and I'm going to create a... for sale by owner for each one of my 50 boats and try to use your platform, commission free, to connect with buyers. Can I do that? Maryline Bossar: We recommend the sellers does this because the seller has to upload their identity and their ownership documents and the premise behind fair transparent communication is a buyer came here to find it for sale by owner. But there is an option when the seller creates their listing, they can tick a box that says, my boat is listed with a yacht broker. We're totally opening that up to them because why not? You're free. It's your boat. AMANDA: Right. But I want you to understand Erik: there's two different topics that we're talking about. One is is how unfairly the industry is currently having to exist with these elephants in the room. it's affecting the people who are trying to buy boats or sell their boats. Therefore, a solution is FISBA. What you guys are doing in order to help the vast majority of people who are out there with boats that are under $200,000 and being ignored by their brokers because they have to make big AMANDA: Yep. Yep. Erik: commissions in order to pay boats group Maryline Bossar: you know, if we bring all of this home, the cost to list boats has gone up. Buyers are feeling a ton of pressure. We saw from that podcast with InfoLink that the new boat sales are down, that the percentage of the population that owns a boat is down. The cost of boating is so high, away. We're saying that we're bringing a solution to those with a smaller boat that just don't have enough money in a boat to pay for a commission. And we're giving them a platform to transact freely. Does that solve the brokerage problem? No, we still have brokerage listings at Courant David Levesque: you Maryline Bossar: Yachts and we will continue to serve the clients that want support. We truly believe that will actually never go away because the population that we cater to that wants a broker and respects the work of the broker has zero interest in doing it on their own. They realize that there is real value there. And I believe that to be the case, I am not creating a platform to kill current yachts on the opposite. I'm giving an option for those who have smaller price point boats who are hurting, who may be underwater, who need to figure it out and need more help and are not getting the help that they need in the price point or in the place that they are today with their boat. Could I solve? David Levesque: Thanks. Maryline Bossar: the boat listing problem. probably can't. There's so many actors, marine source, yachter, yacht way, right boat. It's like, it's like too late, but to come back to Amanda's point and I'm a marketer, right? So I'll tell it to you straight. There's no magic formula. There's no secret sauce, but there's one thing that brands, dealers, brokers must do is to create their own voice, their own messaging, to connect and find that audience. and build a trust. So when we talk about how do we find these eyeballs, we're all about education. what it is you want to do. Maybe you're about community. Put on great events where boaters gather. You'll find your people there. I think we need to stop thinking about the online yellow pages. That's not how it's going to work anymore. I heard a podcast the other day from a marketer, and she was saying that brands and services David Levesque: you Maryline Bossar: need to start thinking of themselves as a media company that happens to offer a service or product. And I think that's brilliant. Erik: So and the only challenge that I see with that and I've mentioned this Amanda when or Marilyn when we're down in Palm Beach. You have a platform for the general boating community. Yotter, a platform for the general voting community, Then to Marilyn's point, she's a marketer. How do you let everybody know you don't have to have a Big Mac, we got chicken sandwiches? How do you let everybody know? AMANDA: Hahaha! Erik: that what they've been doing that there's an alternative about that. Do you start with a small seed and see if you can grow it organically? Maryline Bossar: Hope! I hope this is a seed. We've heard of a lot of brokers, other folks in the industry that tuned into this podcast. If it helps them do a little introspection, great. I mean, I'm not here to educate them on how they should do their marketing or I don't want to sound arrogant. I'm just urging you to change the way you've been doing things because you know deep down they are not working. It's not going to be one platform that will solve it all. And there's one problem we haven't fixed, by the way, in all this. In the higher price point boats, we still do not have sold boats data. I am rooting for Yachter. I am supporting the industry and I want them to figure it out. But the clock's ticking. We need to do this now. I can't make this data up. I don't own this slice of the market and nobody will. We need to play nice inside. Erik: Yeah. Maryline Bossar: one primary platform that has the interest of the Yacht Brokerage community at heart. As far as how do the other brokerage companies and dealers figure this out, you gotta do a lot of thinking and trial. Like you have to try things you haven't done before, step out of that comfort zone. It's amazing the kind of connection you can create when you put yourself out there and whether it's events, as I was saying, building a community, social media, at the boat show, creating a presence. I want David to talk about the event that you guys put on at the Annapolis Boat Show. Exactly. That was incredible. This is how you build an audience. AMANDA: Yes, that was incredible. David Levesque: So, I don't know. Where do I start with this? I mean, you're talking about our cruiser parties that we do? Yeah. So. AMANDA: Yeah. Hahaha! David Levesque: Geez, I mean, when we took over the magazine, Bob used to have these cruiser parties he would throw at various different boat shows, know, free pizza and beer and that kind of routine. We wanted to do something for our cruisers, but more specifically for our subscribers, more specifically for our advertisers, the people that are investing not only in our publication, but in the industry itself, okay? We wanted to give back to that crowd. Anybody can show up and get free pizza and beer. We'd like you to actually invest in this industry. Okay. In some capacity. So we have a great partnership with the young cruisers association. also see people, which is a fantastic app. Through that partnership, we just decided, let's just try to make this thing bigger. Let's try to even, let's just celebrate. It's not so much like an appreciation party as much as a celebration of where the industry's at. And the fact that we have what I would consider to be a global community. And it's, mean, we have this discussion on a lot of our podcasts with some of our subjects. The cruising community is so global and it's so diverse. And it's amazing to me that people in that community don't really care about political affiliation or race or sexual orientation or anything. They just, their community, their cruisers, cruisers are pulling into an anchorage at two o'clock in the morning and it's blowing 40 knots or something like that. They're trying to set an anchor and some dudes sees them struggling and jumps in a dinghy and comes over to help them out. He doesn't ask the question, know, Hey, who'd you vote for? AMANDA: Yeah. David Levesque: before he jumps in his dinghy and goes to help him out. So for us, we wanted to celebrate that, the community that we feel is a group of people that can change the world. So that's our way to give back to the industry that has given us so much. You know I mean? And again, we're just trying to, we love connecting people too. I mean, we love, when you guys showed up and other people, our advertisers come by, our friends come by. We love seeing pockets of people just having amazing conversations. You know what I mean? Catching up. Eric can attest to this. Like Eric was sitting in his jacuzzi the other night having a cigar wondering, why the hell am I here? It's one of those things where. I don't ever want to leave this industry. I've had opportunities to take jobs in other markets, other whatever. I don't care. I love this industry. I love the sense of community. I love the camaraderie. I love that people I work with have become friends. You know what I mean? I love that I can sit, I can talk business with somebody for a little bit, but then I can go over here and say, hey, you your son just got married. How'd that go? You know, or congratulations, you're a grandparent. You know I mean? And this is, we, You guys know this. I what am I preaching to the choir here? This is a great industry to work you in and operate in. And I applaud everything that you're doing with what you're doing right now. Because going back to beginning of this conversation, certain things in this whole situation need saving. They need fixing. And you guys are definitely bringing some incredible solutions to the forefront. AMANDA: Not all the solutions, but at least we're bringing some to the table. Some options. Maryline Bossar: And I know that. And there are some great initiatives, you know, whether it's a Sailing Solstice, there are events throughout the year where you just bring people with you and they discover something they didn't know before. Just let them try, let them sail, put them on a catamaran, put them on a sonoconsole, go fishing. That is the best. I was going to ask Eric, I mean, what a great opportunity to practice what you preach, to witness the beauty of David Levesque: That's what we're doing with Share the Sale. You know what mean? Maryline Bossar: That voting community actually enjoying themselves and doing things together. David Levesque: Let me tell you something. So we have 80 people going on this thing in Tahiti. I know by the time this podcast comes out, it'll probably be over at that point. But 80 people are going. I think last time I counted like 10 of them are basically our team members and close friends that are helping with this whole thing. So we got 70 people, give or take one or two, right? Out of those 70 people, think I saw a stat the other day, Eric, from your wife Melanie. 24 of them or something are subscribers to Latitudes and Attitudes magazine, which means the other group of people are not subscribers. don't even know. A lot of them didn't even know that we existed. They just saw the marketing for this really super cool vacation. trip that is like it's not a cruise surrounded by thousands of people. You're fighting for the water slide or you know trying to belly up to the pool bar and you're behind a dozen people. You know you're on a catamaran. There's eight people to a boat unless you're on one of the larger ones there might be 10 or 12 right but for the most part you got eight people to a boat. You're you're bopping around these islands for a week. you're really getting to know each other. And that's what we want to do. That's what we're trying to do is give people the experience to see what boating is like, to see what living on a boat is like, to see what cruising is like. That's what we're about. Erik: So if I could throw something out there real quick. Bob Bidgin started Latitudes and Attitudes magazine some 29 years ago. I've known Bob and Jody for maybe 10 years now, maybe 12, something like that. Anyway, he inspired me when he said the purpose of this magazine is solely to get people to cast off the lines from the doc and go. Period. David Levesque: God bless. Erik: And we're trying to keep that legacy alive, keep that tradition alive where all we want people to do is go through the magazine and be inspired by what they see to go replicate those journeys and adventures in life. And this may be a little dreamlandish. Maybe we have more aspiring cruisers than we have active cruisers. But I'll tell you something. These stories inspire me to go. Maryline Bossar: That's right. Erik: My wife and I are actually planning on trying to become Blue Water Cruisers at some point. The Not Too Distant Features. Ladies, I think you were both Blue Water Cruisers as well. So that's, you know, this is something, it's like a dream and you want to go chase it. You want to go follow it. And for all of us, I think in this podcast, breaking those barriers to entry. and encouraging people to chase after that dream, catch it and live on it as long as you possibly can, as long as you can stand it. I think that's kind of the point and purpose of what we're doing, what you're doing, what everybody's doing here on this call anyway. AMANDA: afford it. I can afford it. David Levesque: Yeah, I'll report it. Pretty much pretty much everywhere I go guys I you know in my 18 19 years in this industry pretty much everywhere I go I hear people that were ultimately discouraged in one way or another from becoming boaters discouraged from getting a bigger boat discouraged from Casting off and going sailing somewhere whether it be the price of fuel whether it be a fear of the unknown whether it be The cost of maintaining a boat whether it be the cost of buying a boat You know what I mean? And the more that we collectively and everybody else that we work with in this industry can help to break down those barriers as Eric mentioned Break down those barriers to entry and and get you know Get that dream going faster for them and more affordable You know what mean? And more reliable and with confidence. That's what this is all about, right? AMANDA: Yeah. Maryline Bossar: That's it, cut. Love it. This is great. But to circle back, we're all trying to do our part. And so thank you for what you do at Lats and Atts at Great Lakes Scuttlebutt, which you have been doing for many, many years and will continue to do because you love it. Lats and Atts and Scuttlebutt, might inspire them. We caution them and we teach them on how to take action. And then somebody else will take the baton and say, we're going to teach you how to cruise in confidence as a couple because it's hard. And then you might join the posse in Panama. Like everybody in this industry can play a role. So pick your role, pick your job, pick what you love and just do it. with this, I'm going to put a special offer. If you're not a subscriber to Lats and Ats, you're going to go to the link below. If you're not already a subscriber to this podcast and the three sheets podcast, you know to hit that button and subscribe. Actually, it's down here. And finally, come and hit us up at the boat show, whether it's the Annapolis boat show, whether it's Fort Lauderdale, Miami, wherever we may be, just come and see us in person. We love to talk to people in person. And until then, just keep on watching and thank you for your time. All of you will see you on the water. Fair win. AMANDA: Farewell.