Maryline: how many boats have you handled in your entire life? paul: Hundreds. Amanda Haley: Okay, and how many times have you crossed your wake around the loop? paul: Seven, working on my eighth. Maryline: What is the biggest drawback of pod drives? paul: Prop forward facing exposed props. Amanda Haley: And can anyone operate a boat regardless of their experience and age? paul: Trained, yes. Maryline: Welcome to the Full Displacement Podcast. Today we're honored to have with us Captain Paul Bates from No Regrets Lifestyle. And if you followed Paul's channel, you already know quite a few things about running powerboats, trawlers, the great loop, all of these great topics. But I'm gonna let Paul perhaps give us his introduction. paul: Alright, quick, real quick, my background. I started out in sailing, owned two sailboats. One of my favorite all-time boats I ever owned was a 25 Catalina swing kill. Sailed that all up and down the west coast. Love that boat. Maryline: Okay. paul: And on Lake Mead. So then as I got older, I figured hey, and as a young man, believe it or not, I picked up trawler magazine. Nord Haven's on there, obviously. And I dreamed about doing like the Panama Canal. It was just like a boyhood dream. And I remembered going through that. Anyway, long story short, COVID came, lost my corporate job. I was trade show exhibits project manager and I ran the the rental Maryline: What? paul: department in there. And then also I I during COVID, I said, Hey, I want to do something with my life. I had a little money saved up, I learned how to do all that, and then I went off into the trawler market. I had family down in Alabama. I was married at the time. And we went over there, we bought a trawler, and I didn't really pay attention to the Great Loop, but I was debating whether to go to the West Coast or the East Coast since I lived on Vegas is where I was born and raised. so we always boated down in California and I pretty much had a boat down in California most of my adult life. Anyway, so then we came and I I had to make the decision and I went for a trawler. Then the reason that got me over here was I said, my gosh, I didn't even know about America's Great Loop. But then I said, What an opportunity for me to get my time for my captain's license. Because one thing that separates me from other people is I'm a slow learner. I was a single screw. My first trawler down in California was a a a single screw trawler. And I learned I mastered that thing, you know. So when I went to the twin screws, I was really I was confused. My brain didn't work, you know. I was like, my God, what did I get myself into? So I went and did the loop. I did it on two different boats. I bought my original boat, and then I had to tell my ex-wife we're buying another boat in the middle of the loop because I found such a great deal on it. And we and we also had a plan of living on it for four years. So we wanted a bigger boat. So that's how it kind of got started. I d I went ahead and completed the loop all on my dime. So it cost me about $150,000. A lot of people asked the question about this captain's license thing. I got the captain's license strictly to sign off on people's insurance. If if I didn't need it, I wouldn't have it. And all it is is a piece of paper saying you passed a test. It has nothing to do with out there learning how to drive boats or anything like that. So then we did the loop. I started delivering boats. but the real, what really sets me apart from other training delivery captains, I can do single screw, twin screw, pod drives, all of it, because I've done all of it. But where I learned the most, because it like anything else in life, experiences everything and practice, Amanda Haley: Absolutely. paul: practice, practice. If you want to be a you know an Olympic star a great athlete like Michael Jordan, you have to practice, right? So and the only way to do that is to get a job in the industry doing that. So I don't have either one of you heard of little Palm Island? Amanda Haley: Yes, down in the keys. Yeah. paul: It's over in the Florida Keys. Amanda Haley: Yeah. Maryline: Mm-hmm. paul: So I took a job. I took my boat to the Bahamas, my big 50-footer, took it over to the Bahamas. I did the loop in the Bahamas, came back and I was talking to them. And about one in ten applicants that try out for this job actually get the job. because it's pretty brutal. so even as a paper captain, I call them, or YouTube paper captain, you you you wouldn't have the experience to even be able to pull the boat in there without. Doing what I did. Does that make sense? Like you couldn't do it. So even I was, I I thought I knew how to drive a boat until I got there. because like anything else, it doesn't take a hundred dockings, which you guys gotta break this down. America's great loop is 600 hours, it's 50 mile days, it's 60 dockings. Do you know what I'm saying? So how much experience can you Amanda Haley: 60 dockings, right. That's a good breakdown. paul: and so how much experience can you get with 60 dockings? You're still and the average boater. takes his boat out once, maybe twice a year. So you still, even me, I was once a week when I was learning how to drive my boat originally. And I had skill, but I and I've grown up in this industry my whole life. So I had a little bit of skill, but I didn't know anything until I really got that job over at Little Palm. And that's what gives you thousands of dockings because we're doing 20 dockings a night. the first year I worked there, we're working seven days a week. And so you do the math on that. It's over a thousand dockings. 55 knot winds, sick ripping current in five different boats. We had a single screw and three twin screws, and only one of those boats had one thruster on it. So my boss used to he used to joke around and he's always yanking on the thruster, saying, You're gonna break that. When we need it, we're not gonna have it. He didn't care because to use the thruster was, you know, that's a sin basically, but Maryline: So, Paul, let's back up a little bit. When did you do the loop? What year was that? paul: That would have been COVID. So we were forced we were forced to do the Erie Canal. And so we had to get the boat under fifteen feet. I just ran the Erie Canal two weeks ago. And that fifteen, that is the hard number. Like I would never if you can't get your boat to fifteen, you're not gonna run the Erie Canal. So the Amanda Haley: Yeah. paul: whole entire Erie Canal. Maryline: And I think what's really impressive in your experience that what we're gonna bring to the table today is talking about the different propulsion type and the kind of boat that's right for paul: Yeah. Maryline: you. current yachts with the brokerage business, this is what we do, right? We help match the people to the kind of boat that they should have. And sometimes they kind of gloss over their propulsion or single versus twin. And so I really want to spend the time today to unpack this with you because you have so much hands-on experience doing it yourself and showing others how to do it. Before we dig deeper into this episode, tell us about your philosophy, the no regrets lifestyle and where that came from. paul: So I think boating is a lifestyle. It definitely it definitely is. And it doesn't matter whether you're sailor or power boater, that's another debate for another day. But it really is completely it is a lifestyle choice. And the people that make that choice, it is hard, it's not easy, but it's very rewarding. I actually think it keeps people younger, you know, the people that actually take the challenge and do it, they're rewarded by it. But it's a different kind of reward. It's not easy. And that's why when you see the American Great Loop numbers, you know, they compare it to climbing Mount Everest, 2,000 climbers, 2,000 boaters, you actually have a better shot of climbing Mount Everest than you do it. And there's a reason for that. And it's, it's those type of people that really, you know, they challenge themselves and get around the loop it's a lifestyle. It's a choice. Do you know what I'm saying? So that's how I came up with that. My channel had several names before that and so that was work in progress, if that makes sense. So it's then I finally settled on that 'cause it is a lifestyle choice. Amanda Haley: Yeah, and I hear that all the time from people who are looking to buy the boat is, you know, they've waited all their life and they're like, if I don't do it now, I'm not going to do it. And that no regrets is. some of the reasons why people will just make the move to buy the boat now instead of later pushing it off. But one of the biggest questions I get is what boat is easiest to drive? Which boat is easiest to dock? All paul: Yeah. Amanda Haley: of these things. you know, there's so many different boats out there with so many different types of hulls and propulsion systems and thrusters and this and that and dynamic positioning and joystick controls and IPS drives. People can get lost in all of this and sometimes they don't even know. They just think, it's got this little joystick thingy. mustn't be easy, right? And as you well know, with wind and current and depth and all these other things, there's a lot of factors that go into this. So can you define for us in plain language, what the close quarter controls for docking are and the three moves paul: Mm-hmm. Amanda Haley: that matter in a marina and close tight spaces like moving sideways, spinning in place, holding position against wind and current, things like that. paul: So here's wh how I explain it to all my clients. And before we get too far into this video, I want to say that if you follow this video all the way through, at the end, we're gonna leave a code there and I'm gonna do some some stuff for you guys. you can use the code and then you can get contact me, but that's gonna be at the end of the video, we'll announce it. So very interesting question because the first thing, and it depends on the propulsion of the boat. that that is so important because you know t t single engine, twin engine. there's guys that'll say that a single engine is as maneuverable and it costs the same to run twins, and it does really, but it there's still it does cost more money to run twin engines. So the first step on a twin engine boat is just having those two engines. And it doesn't matter if it's a pod drive or a non-pod drive. And I try and teach all of my students. That to not use the pods and not use any thrusters or anything. I almost prefer that they buy the boat. That Grand Banks you just saw that I that this is the front of it right here. We're going to Mackinac Island. I glad that Amanda Haley: Yeah. paul: it didn't have thrusters installed for two reasons, two important reasons. but I want them to learn how to drive the boat without thrusters. It doesn't matter what's single screw or twin screw, because the better you are, I could tell you a hundred stories about a hundred different situations. even on America's Great Loop and stuff like that. But you really got to when you're coming in, it's patience and be slow and get training. A lot of people, like if you get a driver's license in the United States, it takes six months to get that driver's license. If you want to fly an airplane, when I got my pilot's license, I think it was required 10 hours of a solo flying time. But there's nothing saying well you can drive any boat you want and there's nobody out there saying you need to get trained. The good thing about it is all the big expensive Nordhavens, Flemings, Sabres, now Grand Banks is into that market. You've they've dropped all their the the less expensive boats now and they're going to the big, big dollar boats. Anyway, they all the you get lots of training before you ever get on that boat from the the manufacturer. Does that make sense? So this is more like the used market. Amanda Haley: Yes, absolutely. paul: Where do you go get that training? Because even a lot of those are sold through the dealership. They have good captains there that do a lot of different training and stuff like that. But for the guy that doesn't do, I think for when you get me on a boat with you, it's a the equivalent of owning that boat for about one year for every, let's say, couple days. So, and you can't get that. Do you know what I'm saying? Because I I walk them through it and I through the actual slipping of the boat. So when I get into a marina, The big thing is when you get into that marina, you don't know what the current's doing. You don't know what the wind's doing until you get in there. So you've got to make good judgments. I like having see that flag on the front of that boat. I love having that there because that Amanda Haley: Yeah. paul: gives me that wind direction. And then I have to make decisions once I get into those close quarters. And they're not always the decision I think I'm gonna make because I'll let the boat, I'll I'll have a feel for the boat. And if you want to drive with me and you wanna get your hand slapped, grab the steering wheel on a twin screw boat. You know what I'm saying? Like, no, it doesn't do you any good. Why are you wasting Amanda Haley: Yeah. paul: time with steering the steering that boat? But on a single screw it it it matters very much. So Amanda Haley: Yeah. paul: it's all making those choices and stuff like that. And it's all about your tools. Do you want to have a boat with good tools? Then you have to spend the money to buy the boat with good tools. Amanda Haley: And someone once told me when I first started driving a boat and was scared, she said, well, never approach a dock faster than you want to hit it. That was the rule of thumb. Don't go faster than you want to hit something. paul: And I think that's f to be said on you know, it doesn't matter sailing or powerboat, that is th the problem on a single screw you have to carry in momentum. If you don't Amanda Haley: I was going to say that's not necessarily true, I came to found out, because sometimes you need that foil over the rudder, especially in reverse, to be able to maneuver. And paul: Correct. Amanda Haley: if you're going too slow, you get absolutely no ability to maneuver into the slip. So I would say maybe paul: correct. So Amanda Haley: on the forward approach, that's correct. But on the reverse approach in a single screwed monaul, it's not necessarily the case. paul: Yeah, I agree. I agree a hundred percent. every docking's different. you could do that same docking a thousand times, but it's different because you don't know the day, the current, and the wind. And so approaching the the knowing your equipment, being trained for your equipment is probably the single best thing you can do to make good decisions when you're trying to slip your boat. if you're untrained. this is a perfect example. I had a guy, he was I consulted with him, he ended up buying the boat through a broker, blah, blah, blah. He did not do the training after he purchased the boat. So he decides he's going to take it out. He's from New York, he has a couple friends. They go on it, they jump in it, they put it in the water. Six hundred thousand dollars worth of damage. that's Amanda Haley: you paul: what they did in the marina. That's what that costs their insurance company. And you know, out of five hundred you know, my rate is five hundred dollars a day. If he'd have just spent that for one day, that would have never happened. And these insurance companies are getting harder and harder about all that stuff too, 'cause they understand trained and untrained. So Amanda Haley: And one thing we're seeing as well when people go to buy a bigger boat that the insurance companies are requiring in order paul: Yeah. Amanda Haley: for insurance to be valid that for a certain number paul: Hundred percent. Amanda Haley: of hours. Yeah, it's maybe 20 or 50. I've seen as much as 50 hours for clients required to have a captain sign off that they were with them on the vessel during this time. And now they are proficient in the ability Maryline: Yeah. Amanda Haley: to drive their boat, which I think is great. The only people that can mandate this is insurance companies. So I think paul: Correct. Amanda Haley: I'm that they're doing that now. Maryline: And I think it's also paul: Yeah, that's Maryline: a trend that we're seeing more now than we did 10 years ago, where people were more reasonable in their upgrade of boats. And here we're finding first-time boaters, right? Sometimes, Paul, that will come to you and they just bought a 50-foot something and they're like, Teach me. It's a lot. It's a lot. Amanda Haley: Yeah. Maryline: So evidently the insurance has to follow. And for that, there's going to be some requirements. So I'd like to move on perhaps to what are the most common setup as far as propulsion and aids to propulsion and then we can go over some of the examples to kind of talk through the pros and cons and and have Paul's perspective on those. I also would like to point out that we boaters love to use different words for the same thing. So when we Amanda Haley: Yes. Maryline: say single screw, that's usually a single shaft drive, single engine. And I wanted to actually start with the shaft drive with twin engine. So in this case, Paul, what is perhaps the boat that matches that to a T that you've taught on a lot? What do you think works? What are the challenges? tell us about the the common twin engine setup for shaft drive. paul: Okay, so for a shaft drive, you got two different even on a twins twin screw boat, you'll have naturally attractive motors and you'll have turbocharged motors, higher horsepower motors. Both of them react a little bit different. The actual slipping, if you wanna you know, putting your boat in with no thrusters, the higher horsepower engines are obviously work better. Because on the slower horsepower engines, like I want to just use Ford Lehman as an example, or you know, the Perkins or whatever, they it you you just have less ump, you know, it's just less bite in the water and you Maryline: Right. paul: gotta wait. You gotta be patient and wait for the boat to come around. with the more horsepower boats you hit they're usually the boats turning pretty quickly. So I would say you you gotta understand what you want because an NA boat is a much cheaper to operate than a turbocharged boat by a considerable amount of money. So you know, when I people are more Amanda Haley: Give us examples of those types of boats, if you could, paul: Like a DeFever forty four, that's the one I was talking with this morning, is a great little boat. It runs either Ford Lehman's or it runs Perkins and they're usually NA motors in And they offer probably for forty four feet, it's the only walk around engine room that you could get into in one of these boats. but the the NA There's there's tricks that you can do and what I do is I usually add fuel if I'm in a in a to a bad situation. I'll add fuel to the boat. John Deere's another really good propulsion system. but I'll add a little bit of fuel to them because you can take them up to, I don't know, a thousand, eleven hundred RPMs, and then you can start bumping on the NA's with that, and that'll help in wind and current to give you more horsepower if that makes sense. 'Cause you're pushing a big wheel on these trawlers and they're meant to go long distances at a constant speed. So when you're putting them in the slip, they're as maneuverable, but you got there's a few little tricks to the NA's. Amanda Haley: Okay, that makes sense. Maryline: Okay. So who is this type of propulsion best for, would you say, as far as the boat of profile that you work with or that you come across? Who is this best for? As far as experience and coachability and the type of people the clients you've taught. paul: There's some people that are just timed out. And so as they get older, as we get older, our reaction time. So when you have twin sticks and single sticks, it's a different world. And you can have these sticks on any propulsion system. Because now in the modern day, I always tell everybody, modernize your yacht. And one of the things that I like is that you know, being a yacht control, as I like to switch them to Glenn Demings and put a single stick on because having the the twin sticks is a little bit more complicated to teach somebody. But also you can get in trouble with the single sticks. So the first thing I teach is throttle control. That is absolutely the first thing anybody has to learn because whenever you see in a marina, they'll start panic shifting. That's the first thing every freaking new boater does is they'll start panic shifting and the boat is all over the place. You don't know how many times I'm like, Whaaaa! Just screaming, grabbing the the the kill switch, like, my God. Can't believe you just did that. So I'll take out in open water. I let play with the throttles. putting it into gear before they ever even get close to a marina. And then I hope, I hope that they react well when I get to that marina. But there's been a few times there's been two boaters that in particular that I was it was scary, scary. Maryline: And so I would say for that particular setup usually and you've already told us that you don't want your clients when they learn to rely on a bow or stern thruster, but that would be really overkill on this boat, 'cause you've already got the ability to pivot the boat and maneuver pretty well. Would you say that's just, yeah, not necessary, the thrusters at that point? paul: So, like I said earlier, is it's a tool. So if you can afford Amanda Haley: Right. paul: to add nice tools and put those in your toolbox, they're very nice to have. And believe it or not, the thrusters come in more handy after you've docked the boat or when you're right doing that last little dial in into the marina. Does that make sense? Like doesn't Amanda Haley: Yeah. Yeah. paul: matter whether you're pulling into the fuel dock or you're pulling into your slip, Maryline: Yeah, that's fair. paul: you're you're holding your lines over. So I always tell my clients, get the remote. My God, it's a five hundred dollar option. And you can just put it on there and so then when you jump off the boat, I try and teach and I hate to say this, and it doesn't matter whether it's a man or a woman, I try and teach that person to single hand the boat into the slip, and it doesn't matter if it's a 70-foot boat or a 50-foot boat, because I want less stress on the wife if that it and I'm just using the wife, but it could be the man because believe it or not, I class yeah, the spouse. Yeah, you'll just use Maryline: Yeah, I was gonna say the spouse, right, Paul? Amanda Haley: Yeah. paul: that terminology. 'Cause even I'm going out to a boat in Jacksonville, which is a I wanna say it's a sixty-five grand Alaskan. So very, you know, a million dollar plus boat. I think it was one point two. And the husband was forced into the, you know what I'm saying? Like it was the woman all the way. Like she said, I'm leaving you if you don't buy me this boat and we're gonna go cruising. So there are lots of women and probably seven boats ago at the beginning of the year. I had some clients that was single screw and he couldn't dock the boat. He just so we switched. The wife docks does the docking and he handles the lines, and the handling lines is harder, I think, than docking the boat. But she did better at docking the boat. So we put her at the helm and we put him doing the lines and it works for them. I just got a phone Maryline: Sure. paul: call from the other day. They're happy, they're running up and down the coast, getting ready to head to the keys. So they're just but they got training, so. Maryline: Yep. Understood. Amanda Haley: Yeah. Yeah. Maryline: And so continuing on the shaft and then Amanda will talk to us about pod propulsion next. If you are a buyer and you're considering single versus twin engine for a shaft boat, Paul, how do you help them decide before they make the decision what is right for them? Perhaps by size or budget would you say, or durability concerns? paul: Yeah. Maryline: Who ha what do you say to them to help them decide? paul: There's there's guys that'll say, like I said earlier in the podcast, that a single or twin are but I don't rule it out. So I don't want you to go into this, especially in that budget market, like you cannot rule out a single screw, or you can't rule out twin screws. You can't do it because you don't know what the opportunities are gonna come up. And so if you say no, I I'm not gonna operate, the big question is do I operate the single screw? Can they be as maneuverable as a twin screw? No, because you need points of thrust. And on a a twin screw, you can have four points of thrust. On a single screw, you can only have three points of thrust. So the more points of thrust you have, the easier the boat is to maneuver. But a single screw with twin thrusters, a lot of mainship it will come with a single thruster or a a twin thruster. It's the number one boat on the loop, and there's a reason for that because of that built-in staircase getting up to the helm, but a lot of They they do make that in a twin screw, twin thrustered boat too, which is very, very maneuverable. Later on in the podcast, I'm gonna tell you which boat is the actual most maneuverable boat in the entire world. And you're not gonna believe it. You'll think it's something else. Maryline: You're not gonna tell us now, you're saying we have to wait. paul: You have to wait. Maryline: We'll come back to that. paul: Ha ha ha. Amanda Haley: Well, that brings us to the next point, which a lot of boats today have IPS pod drives. And I can say I have heard so many times people saying no pod drives. If the boat has pod drives, I don't want it. So then I've also heard and I've driven myself pod drives. And, you know, I think it's more so the ease and ability of them are very simple, in my opinion. But it could be the maintenance and the cost if you actually do hit the bar. with pod drives are so many different variabilities. Maryline: I have a feeling Paul does not love pot tries from his face. I don't know. paul: Okay. I love po I love Amanda Haley: So tell us, tell us about how pod drives work. paul: I love pod drives by the way. But Maryline: Okay. paul: again, I let's look at it in our toolbox. So those are good tools. Does that make sense? But they're tools Amanda Haley: Yes. paul: for people that can afford those tools. So if you can't Amanda Haley: right. paul: afford those tools, you gotta take them off the list. And then there's better pod drives. The IPS Volv, if you buy IPS, you're buying Volvo engine. There is no such thing as a bad diesel motor. They need fuel, air, and keep them cool and they're gonna run for you. So now you gotta go to the drive system and we have shafts and pods, and there are better pods than and you know what I'm saying? Like I think both pod systems, which is Zeus, and and IPS, I think they both perform fairly close, but the Volvo will be a little bit better. They're they at slow speed, you can really just kind of just take it. Again, it's teaching people throttle control because you get in there with a pod and you start jacking that pod around. You'd be surprised you can get you can cause a lot of damage with the pod drive real fast. So I manda you've driven one or you have not? Amanda Haley: Absolutely, have, yeah. paul: What and did you use IPS or have you done Zeus or J both or? Amanda Haley: No, only the IPS. have not driven Zeus drives, but IPS many times. paul: Real close, real like you would have no problem making the transition. it it there really is no difference. The dynamic positioning and all of it's pretty much the same. And the handle of the pot, it's very minute. Do you know what I'm saying? So as far as the actual Amanda Haley: Yes, yeah. paul: if they're working correctly, maintained correctly, both systems work very well. Amanda Haley: Yeah, exactly. Maryline: Can you explain, Paul, actually, the difference in the technology where on the Volvo pod the propeller is facing forward, right? Versus Cummins, they're they're not, they're facing aft. Can you explain that and how that came about and and is the fuel efficiency in your mind, is that proven in real life? paul: So think think of it as a front-wheel drive car. So Amanda Haley: Yeah. paul: when you're you're being pulled across the water and you do get better efficiency. So that's why Volvo did it. But is it good for the keys? Is it good for, you know, like if you pick up a fishing line, if you pick up a crab pot line, if you pick something up in one of those Volvo IPS drives, which happens in the loop, I've talked to so many guys that they'll hit a log inside of a there's nothing you can do about it because you can't see it. So having those front Front drives, it's one of the negatives about IPS. If I had to put a negative on IPS, if I'm buying pods, I'm buying IPS and taking my chances with that. But be prepared to take it out and have the maintenance done if you hit something, because you're gonna there's you can't, you can't I have one particular boat out there. I hate to pick on boats, but this is a burger. It was over a seven million dollar yacht build and it has pods on it. These guys travel, he's probably got 100,000 miles under his belt. All he does is they live on this thing full time. They never go to marinas, blah blah blah. He has and he's hit. Do you know what I'm saying? I have another guy who has a 65 Viking. I'm supposed to be out there in a couple weeks. Same thing. He going through the locks Indi Canal, he hit a log. So those forward-facing pods are can be that's the negative about IPS. Whereas the Zeus are rear facing, so you're actually pushing So the IPS are gonna be a little bit more efficient and when I say that it's probably five percent or something like that. But the best fuel mileage and best performing are the IPS, but you've got to deal with that front facing pod. So it is a negative. Amanda Haley: Yeah, yeah, and that's, it's good and paul: It's a good it's good and b it's good and bad. Amanda Haley: bad. And you gotta weigh those things. And the question is, we all know this as boaters, the question is, have you ever touched bottom? There's the ones that have and then the liars, so. paul: Correct. It's the same thing with motorcycle drivers, the guys are going down and the the guys that have been down. Same thing. I've Amanda Haley: Yep. paul: been boating a long time in the keys and everywhere and they'll ask me where's the best place? But you got a chance to run aground anywhere you go and it happens to all of us. Every single boater. You're gonna run aground. It's just hopefully you know what to do. You've been trained and you know how to get out of it very quickly. Maryline: And just out of curiosity, regardless of the type of propulsion, how long do you find that most of your clients hire you for, Paul? It's a question we do get from folks, not the insurance required bit, but the I'm new to this boat, help me fully understand how to maneuver this boat with confidence. How long does that require? paul: Great question. Age is a big factor because I l I know that the younger guys will pick it up much, much faster. those guys, they usually pick it up pretty quickly and they're they're on it. But even let's Amanda Haley: Adair to paul: just say I have a 37-year-old on a 60-foot prestige down in the keys, did some training with him, but he calls me back because even though I signed off for the insurance, he's still not comfortable with the boat. I do a f a trip with the family, do you know what I'm saying? To make sure everything goes right for them and it's still the right thing to do, if that makes sense. So I would say two days, you could probably I tell everybody you're slipping your boat's not gonna be the issue. It's gonna be more after you've purchased the boat, like running aground 'cause you didn't know how to follow the chart, you know how to use your radar, You know, your autopilot and stuff like that, anchor, you know, it's learning the other system. That's what's gonna kill you more than the actual docking the boat after about two to three days of training. Amanda Haley: Yeah, that makes sense. Maryline: All right, terrific. And it can't since we're here, one other question that I think about is how do you make sure that you're the right fit for the couple or the single solo handler who wants to have lessons from you? How do you do this little interview process to ensure there's a mutual fit? paul: Well, you guys know that I've been running the YouTube channel, so that pretty much everybody boat that I get on, they already know me personally. And so they will they already get a sense of who I am. I'm not an easy captain, I'll tell you that. I'm not gonna baby you and I'm not going to like if you're making a mistake, I'm gonna let you know it's a mistake very quickly. You know what I'm saying? And don't do don't do that again. So if you get your hurt feelings Amanda Haley: Right. Maryline: Ha ha. paul: If you get your feelings hurt easily, I'm probably not your captain for you. But if you want to learn to drive your boat and do it proficiently, Maryline: or again. paul: and maximize your time, I'm your captain. Do you know what I'm saying? But if you want to play games and hold and hug, I'm not your captain. No. I'm just so I usually will interview them for Amanda Haley: Goodbye. paul: about an hour. But then there's also trips that I go on, you know, it's Kumbaya, they're never gonna drive the boat. And so then I'm just the the dedicated captain, if that makes sense. So and they know their limitations because I've had people I've walked on their boat and I said, you know what, you gotta sell your boat because you're never gonna drive it. And it happens, it's happened three or four times over the years. But that same guy, I take him out and I'm he hires me for the day. We take his family, he has the greatest trip of his life. But he's never gonna get the boat back in the slip no matter what I do, you know. And and usually that's age, it's timed out. Like they don't have the experience. An experienced 70 year old will do great at the boat too. And it doesn't really matter what his experience is, but he has to have been on the water with either a single screw, some type of, you know, understanding the the winds, the currents, what the boat's gonna do, pontoon boat. I don't care. They usually do better than the seventy year old that's never owned a boat in his entire life. Those guys, they need as many tools as they can have. Amanda Haley: it comes down to expectations too in the beginning. A lot of people will buy a boat with the expectation that they're never going to drive it, that they're always going to paul: Yeah, I could Amanda Haley: hire a captain so that they can just paul: Correct. Amanda Haley: relax and not have the stress of any of that. And when you do the math of how many times people actually do use their boat, it's cheaper to hire a captain and take the stress away from themselves. So there are those types of boaters. paul: I I'm waiting for the the the couple that actually wants to do the loop. They've timed out mentally, you know, like they're not gonna operate the boat, but just wanna do the loop and then pay the captain because that is I think it it it's a thing, you know what I'm saying? It's probably happens more than we think, but also that it takes the stress out. Like I know the marine Amanda Haley: Yeah. paul: is the fuel. So a lot of times I'll get hired from people just for the expertise of knowing the ins and outs and the fastest way to get there, especially the big corporate executives. That would happen to be this last one on his grand banks. He has a you know he has a big important job. And his time is limited. So we we're doing a very long run in a very short amount of time. So making good decisions to get across Derie here on Michigan, whether we run at night, whether we run during the day, you know, all these things. he's pretty proficient at the boat by the second or third day, he doesn't need me, but he keeps me there. So this last trip was 14 days. The knowledge that guy had, we actually broke down. I had to single screw the boat in twice. in 20 knot winds. So he got to see and experience all that. He got to see me do it. We ran out, he hit he hit a valve off on the fuel. I don't know why I you know, I was just the boat's been running fine for for t for a week now. I didn't even think to run down there and check to see because we had a day weather delay and we were messing with a toilet project right next to the valves. He accidentally hit one of the valves closed. So I get out there on lake on the beginning and we knew that it was gonna be windy, 20 knot winds, and I lose the starboard in it. While I feel it coming down, I'm going, my God, this is horrible. And it's pitch Amanda Haley: Yeah. paul: black. It's one o one o'clock in the morning. So it so seeing those and experiencing those and then seeing how, you know, I never panic. Because if you pan if you see me panic on a boat, it's time to panic. And I don't panic. You know what I'm saying? Like I've Amanda Haley: Yeah. paul: almost suck boat out in the Gulf Stream and Amanda Haley: You paul: I've had some I've had some close calls. Maryline: So what we want to know now, Paul, is what do you think is the most maneuverable boat? That doesn't mean it's the perfect boat for everybody, but do tell us, do you have like a top three or just a glorious winner and why? paul: So I'm not gonna go with particular brand because it doesn't really matter. The propulsion system's what matters. Amanda Haley: Right. paul: and I'm gonna go twin stick, twin thrustered, because you can add a yacht controller to it, you know what I'm saying? And then Maryline: Mm-hmm. Yep. paul: you can use the joystick with that, but it's also it eliminates that slosh from the the pods. So I think it is. Green Line is a great example. I I don't know if I even mentioned this, but I'm like the training captain for Green Line yachts. That's the hybrid electric propulsion engines. super cool boats. I just took a fifty-eight footer all the way from Florida all the way to Annapolis. It was super cool. Like that was a Amanda Haley: Yeah, we just sold one to some clients last month. paul: the technology's there. Those guys have been around the longest. and the boat is a good solid build. So I've been on Amanda Haley: Yeah. paul: three or four of them now and they're it's just a good solid build. They did a good job with the build. Like I like the way the it's all laminated, the halls, the the ride itself because they they redesigned the hull to do that slow propulsion and it's it really is a nice boat, even though I don't talk about brands. But that boat Maryline: Well that's the paul: comes standard with Twin sticks and twin thrusters. Amanda Haley: Interesting. Maryline: And that's the perfect segue into perhaps a teaser. We want to have Paul back to talk about hybrid propulsion systems, including Green Line, but there are others out there, so looking forward to that conversation paul: There are. Yep. Maryline: with Paul. paul: Yeah, 'cause a lot Amanda Haley: So. paul: of motors, especially on the dinghy, I'll say get the electric motor one, 'cause I like that. So yes. Maryline: All right. Amanda Haley: So that then brings us to the maneuverability, the whole decision. What about the displacement mindset when it comes to the boats? Is it semi-displacement, full displacement? Hey, hence our name. What do you choose for the type of maneuverability and hull type? paul: so you gotta remember too, because on a full displacement haul, your props are pretty much protected from your keel. So that's a great advantage that you need to look for. Those are usually your lower horsepower boats, your NA boats, and your props and your rudders are protected from that keel. They're still exposed out there, but they're protected. Like if you're gonna run aground, you're more than likely you're gonna hit your keel. You're not gonna do any prop or rudder damage. Maryline: Rotted image. Mm-hmm. paul: Yeah. So I would say those boats, but you're not going to get up on plane. My personal boat, my next boat, if I was gonna buy a boat right now and I made this decision, would be somewhere around the green line or the Fleming is my my choice. It's got a low profile, but it's a semi displacement, and that one your props and shafts are exposed, you gotta be much careful or no they don't think they offer pods on the on the Fleming. They do straight shafts and rudders. But also another segment that we could touch on, since I've done so much with just hundreds of different boats, hundreds of different manufacturers, and probably somewhere around 80,000 nautical miles of actual miles of running these boats, is stabilization. Because the another thing about the system that changes so fast. as our industry changes, like I can take a zero speed wings. They're they're much better than the stabilizers, but nobody would know that. Everybody has, you know, because of these marketing, all these boats are marketed different and all these different systems are marketed different. But the zero speed wings are probably better than the gyros. So anyway, that's a different subject for a different day. Maryline: Okay. Well, the debate is open. We're actually scheduled to have Seakeeper on the podcast soon. So stay tuned for that and then we'll hear Paul's counter take on it. Very exciting. I'd like to wrap up with the mainest takeaways then from the conversation we had today. can you give us the quick like checklist for those boat buyers that are looking at a pre-owned boat and have to review obviously the the the running gear? What are some of the thoughts that you got from your experience and from Paul's conversation today? Amanda Haley: So we have created a checklist that helps our buyers decide between the different types of drives and displacement holes. And that's what we're doing is helping the client find what's best for them and their use of the vessel. So. On pod drives, have to ask for service history, if they've had any groundings, paul: Correct. Amanda Haley: those types of things. Dealer support, a lot of the times people are hearing about Zeus not being able to be supported and serviced. So that's a big thing to watch out for. Then when you have your shaft drives, a lot easier as far as maintenance goes as well. So some people will switch to that. Then of course the surveyor will have to be looking at the cutlass bearings, the shaft alignment, those types of things. Then you have the propeller condition, right, which makes a huge impact on performance. We just sold a boat that had the share of props and it was making such a huge difference in the ability for them to have propulsion through the water in their fuel economy. Just the addition of very expensive prop, but it made that much difference in the long-term use of his boat with his fuel economy. So you've got to match the systems to the way you're actually paul: Correct. Amanda Haley: going to use the boat and for what purpose. I'm sure you've seen that and we've spoken paul: Right. A hundred percent. Amanda Haley: about that here. So that's exactly the type of matchmaking that we're doing so that we're not saying, don't go for paw drives. They're the devil, okay? A lot of people will say that. We're not saying that. We're saying make sure you understand the risks. paul: And yeah. Amanda Haley: Yeah, the risks of of the ability of having nothing there to protect you, those props. And I mean, listen, I'm a sale voter. I'm gonna hit the keel the first time. And that is a very, it calms my mind, right? That I'm not going to be screwing up the very expensive pot drives if I touch the bottom. paul: Yeah. Amanda Haley: So I'm sure you understand that too. paul: A hundred percent like so and again I'm not against pods or for pods, but they're very maneuverable, they're much more fuel efficient, they run up on top very, very nicely. and like I said, they both have their advantages and their disadvantages. Amanda Haley: Yep. paul: and I but I still think you need to learn how to drive a boat. the people that do better with the pods, they already know how to drive the boat, steer the boat. how the single, cause you can lock your pods and then just use your shifters. but that to me when you're talking to the client, it's tools. So can you afford those tools? And if you can put those tools in your toolbox, they're great to have if you can have them. Maryline: And Paul, for our audience listening that may be considering your services, the sweet spot of your services as a captain and and training captain, not just deliveries but also on board training, is what size boats? paul: I'm between let's say thirty-five and probably eighty feet is my sweet spot. I just finished up a 70-foot Hatras. We took that from Washington to Alaska. I was on that boat from NASA, Bahamas. I took it all the way. I project managed that boat. I delivered that boat, and then I did yacht training. The yacht training was this year, it was from Washington to Alaska, thousand mile run. but I also do like the green lines, like a single screw green line. or the twin screw. We just sold a fifty foot twin screw Green Line and we took it from Florida all the way. And I was included with the the purchase price of the boat if that so if you buy a boat through Green Line, that'll include my services already. It doesn't you don't you don't have to I guess you would get a choice, but they would they would choose me as their preferred captain. Maryline: Paul, I know you offer both captain services for deliveries and for training. What's the difference between the two actually? paul: Okay, so a true delivery company will carry the insurance binder on the boat. So if you if if I if they're delivering a boat, that's why the owner's not allowed aboard on them. They have one mate and they have a captain. It costs very it's it's an extreme amount of money. If you want to price it out, it's five times what I charge, if that makes sense. So the daily rate on that's about $1,700 a day. Not so it's three times. But there Getting an insurance binder to cover your million-dollar boat, you're not allowed on it, and you're not allowed to drive the boat because only the captain can drive it for insurance reasons. So you're as a as a delivery, if you go with a true delivery company, they can't touch the boat. I come on your boat, I have to sign off a waiver from your insurance company seeing my 100-ton license, and that's the difference. So that's why I can get away with charging $500 a day rate. compared to those guys that are about seventeen hundred dollars a day. I want to hear in the comments because this is it's a true statement, you know what I'm saying? So when you see that Amanda Haley: go. paul: as a training captain, you're allowed on b on board because it's your insurance. So and the first thing the insurance company says, have you had any accidents? Have you done anything? I always joke with everybody because at the little palm job, you know, you d you're out there, I was out there in hurricane, you Maryline: Yeah. paul: know, we didn't want that draw, but there was one time, one hurricane and you know, 55 knot winds. Current is just absolutely sick. And we're having to dock the boat. And I just like five instances out there where I can remember that this is insanity. Like you're using all of your power in the boat just to get it to Amanda Haley: You paul: get into this little spot. And in one mistake, you're gonna wreck that boat. So have I hit anything? I hit everything out there. There's nothing because when you have that kind of time and that many hours, you're gonna hit stuff. Do you know what I'm saying? So have I hit the dock every time perfect in my training experience. no, I have not. I'm not perfect. You cannot judge every situation, but have I ever done any insurable damage to a boat? Is no, I have not. I've not had one insurance claim with them. And we repaired our own boats at Little Palm. We had to. Maryline: And if you are looking to hire a training captain, we will put the contact info in the description below for Paul and the No Regrets Lifestyle links as well to his YouTube channel so you can learn more and connect with Paul to hire him potentially. Amanda Haley: So Paul, for all of our listeners, you have something special, that you want to offer our listeners here, right? Can you tell us that? paul: Yeah, so anybody that listens to this podcast and you listen all the way through, I want to do a twenty percent discount on my labor. And we'll have a code, you'll put it in the in the description. And then so if you watch the pod, and we'll go with one, two, three, four. So you gotta just tell me that. It's super simple, super easy. If you've watched it, twenty percent on my labor. It doesn't count like if I get to get in a plane and buy a plane ticket, I can't give you a twenty percent discount because I usually just charge whatever it costs me because it's usually my Maryline: No labor. paul: time. plus expenses is what it is. So not on the expense. Maryline: That sounds like a great deal. paul: And then on my consulting side, I can do project management, the wings, the stabilization, the the controllers and stuff like that. So when they're looking to remodel their yacht or something like that, or they're gonna do something particular with the yacht, I can jump in there and I give a little bit of consulting. I will do same thing, twenty percent discount on that. And the first hour is free. So Amanda Haley: Wow, that's a paul: Just remember that. Maryline: Wow, that's a great deal. Amanda Haley: very nice deal. Thank paul: Yeah. Amanda Haley: you for that. Maryline: So we're looking forward to chatting about hybrid propulsion next and more. So continue watching full displacement. We will see you on the next one. Thank you, Captain Paul. And we'll see you also on your channel. Fair wins. Amanda Haley: Fair wins. paul: All right. fair winds. God bless. Peace out. And thank guys. Remember, live life with no regret. I do. And I love each and every one of you. And thank guys for what you're doing on here. Cause I it's truly we need this in the industry. You're just educating and I love it. Amanda Haley: Thanks so much, Paul. Maryline: Thank you.