Maryline Bossar: Hi everybody and welcome back. is full displacement, the podcast by current yachts. We're thrilled to have today a guest whose name is Edvardo Humes and he's from Archipelago Marine Solutions, and actually we met Edvardo during a survey. We're very with his knowledge and his expertise and we asked him be a guest on the show today. Most buyers focus on the purchase price of a vessel and Edvardo lives on the other side of that equation. So surveys boats before they change hands he's also very privy to the cost of not just buying a boat, but and maintaining a boat. He's located in the Bahamas. has this extra ⁓ If you find this podcast helpful, make sure to subscribe to the full displacement podcast. And now let's get back to the show. layer of knowledge that most mainland surveyors cannot offer because he sees boats that have been in saltwater conditions year-round, ⁓ he's part of a market where obviously service is harder come by because there's just fewer trained technicians, there's less access to haul-out yards, so he really has this layer of that very few people can have in that environment. This episode is for buyers who have looked at boats and wondered, then what? After buying the boat, what comes next? Without further ado, welcome, Edvardo Humes to the show. How are you? Edvardo Humes: I am pretty good and again thank you all. It's always a pleasure to be here and also working with you two ladies Amanda and Maryline I'm doing good. How y'all doing? Maryline Bossar: We're doing great. Amanda, welcome back to the program. AMANDA: Hey, thank you, Marilyn and Edvardo. Good to spend some time with you guys. Edvardo and I had enjoyed some really conch salad last time we were down in the Bahamas. I'm looking forward to doing that again. ⁓ Edvardo Humes: Indeed, indeed, indeed, Maryline Bossar: And so before we jump into today's conversation, we'd love to know more about you, Edvardo. where did you grow up? What's your boating background? And then we have lots of questions for you today for buyers and sellers of boats. But first, who are you? Where do you come Edvardo Humes: Hello again, name is Edvardo Humes. ⁓ am Principal Surveyor of Archipelago Marine Solutions and I currently located in the Bahamas. conduct pre-purchase surveys, surveys and damage surveys here in the Bahamas and the Caribbean. And basically I just advise owners and buyers on things they should do before and after owning a vessel. Maryline Bossar: and you were born in the Bahamas? Edvardo Humes: Yes I was born, bred and dead in the Bahamas. Maryline Bossar: What kind of boater are you? I'm dying to know. Are you like a power boater, sailboater, both, whatever comes your way? Edvardo Humes: I would like to consider myself both. Sometimes in life it's good to take it easy on the water that's where the sailing comes in. And then other times in life it's just good to go fast. That's where the powerboat comes in. ⁓ I would say I'm both, yes. Yes. Maryline Bossar: You can't have it all. AMANDA: That's a good philosophy. It's a good philosophy, Edvardo. Maryline Bossar: So tell us a little bit about how you got into your line of work, just the for boating, but the career that you've developed. How did you get into this line of Edvardo Humes: Okay, well first of all I started at sea as a decadent many moons ago. I think it would have been 2006. I started at what we have is a Bahamas Maritime Cadet Corps program. It's an after school program here in the Bahamas that basically introduced Bahamians that's still in school, the maritime industry. I joined that program after school and shortly after that, went to Harlan College, graduated and after Harlan College, I went straight out to sea as a deck cadet and spent some out to sea. Worked my way all the way up to officer of the watch, officer and ultimately master 500, post-hands. And I decided to work on yachts. Actually... servicing the fiberglass industry and shortly after that I came home and wanted to give back to owners because I've been on the side where I'm working and maintaining them and now with surveying I'm able to advise them on how to maintain them much better. Maryline Bossar: Can you tell us as a surveyor, you're based in the Bahamas, are you carrying any of the SAMS or NAMS certifications? Edvardo Humes: I'm currently certified with SAMS, also an member and also a of the International Maritime ⁓ Association of Marine and Surveyors based in the UK. Maryline Bossar: ⁓ that's terrific. Can you say a few words about this? Does it mean you're connected to your peers? What does that mean to you in your career as obviously marine specialist? Tell us bit about that. Edvardo Humes: Okay, so being a part of the survey groups, it sets a standard. So, SAMS, as we are aware of, SAMS NAMS, that's very big in the United States, they basically have survey ⁓ standards that they by. And by these standards, able to... basically give a complete analysis of the vessel and the scope of work that you're about to undertake. ABYC has a about... right here And this is the standards which we basically survey our vessel on. So it has all of the codes, has all of the everything, how the vessel needs to be built, how it's to protect, everything. Maryline Bossar: All right, terrific. And actually we produced a video recently to talk about the ABYC building standards. We contrasted that with CE. So we'll put the link in the description below. And, Edvardo, it sounds like you're also connected with this other organization from UK. A few words on that. Edvardo Humes: Yes, it's also similar like SAMS, but that was more like the commercial side because I spent over a decade in the commercial side as a deck officer, transiting the world, different ships and cargo, soulless class. Those are the types of standards and certification that comes with that. And so I've been in the industry about 16, 17 years now, yeah. Maryline Bossar: All right. Yes, you have. AMANDA: And just to brag a little bit, Elno Edvardo, is now looking to be a pilot and joining portion of his career now this way. So props to Edvardo, and continuing to and do more. Edvardo Humes: Thank you. Maryline Bossar: One of the first questions that we discuss with our clients who are new to boating is understanding not just the cost of buying a boat, but the cost of and maintaining a boat. And there's this very well-known rule of thumb in the industry that it takes about 10 % of a boat's value per year to maintain the boat and to just own the boat from insurance to birthage to maintenance. What would you say? ⁓ this this rule of thumb number gave you, is it a fair estimate? And when people ask you that questions, what do you answer? Edvardo Humes: I've heard that from when I first joined the industry and so I would say about I would move it up to about 15 actually 15 to 20 percent to be realistic with you and when you're moving or actually dealing with vessels in the islands the Caribbean and the Bahamas it can even go higher as 20 percent. All of these are inclusive of dockage because Bahamas and the islands, we don't build boats. We don't have that much of equipment, spare parts. Everything has to be outsourced. All of these can cause the price to rise. Also, fuel costs is rising. And so if you want to actually... be on top of things and maintain the vessel the way it should be so it would not only give you better performance but also retain its value. I would say about 15 to 20 percent. AMANDA: And I have a question for you, Edvardo. What do you think the number one cost that most first-time boat owners are surprised by in year one? ⁓ ⁓ I didn't expect the cost the bottom paint to be that much. Or like, what is the number one thing you hear where you're like, what? ⁓ How can that be? Edvardo Humes: ⁓ Everything would be engines. Engines would be the number one cost. For an example, outboards. If you just buy a new vessel, outboards, you neglect to rinse them with fresh water, salt content builds up. All of these things can an effect on your performance, clogs, cause the engine to be overheated. All of these things. Deferred maintenance is also I would say engines. If it's a cabin cruiser, are hydraulic systems, dependent on how they operate. AMANDA: Yeah, that makes sense. I've actually heard the hydraulic systems too. And what most people don't understand is, you know, they think these outboard engines are so much to maintain, but the lower units still maintenance. you know, sometimes you have to service them outside of the water and not inside the water as people to tilt up. So, you know, it's interesting to hear those two things coming from you. Edvardo Humes: Yes, yes. Maryline Bossar: And we've actually developed a spreadsheet to give you kind of a starting point for what it takes to own a boat. And we'll share the link to that as well in the description. ⁓ But I think obviously the of the boat is and that can include, you know, general in the Northeast, we winterizing and then we have spring commissioning. But in the islands, it would be just year round maintenance, potentially haul out during hurricane season. storage, we've discussed engines but bottom paint as Amanda to earlier and insurance. What do you see in perhaps the Bahamas as far as insurance trends? Do your clients share with you what they've seen as far as rising costs? You mentioned fuel costs but insurance is also a big one. Edvardo Humes: Yes, here in the islands prone to hurricane season and so the insurance companies actually have in their agreement that a vessel should have ⁓ a storage facility during the hurricane months. This is something that can depending on timing, If you're down in the south and the hurricane facility closest to you is up north, that occurs, travel costs, fuel, all of that incurs with storing your vessel during the hurricane season. And then also during the hurricane season, if there is a hurricane or storm, the companies would pay. So it depends on which insurance company you're also working with, but definitely a pricey, pricey product of ownership. Maryline Bossar: And it is something we see in the Southeast as well, right? Amanda, clients routinely have to move their boat out of a particular region or if they're a buyer in Florida and don't intend to stay in Florida, isn't it like a June 1 cutoff sometimes? What do you see, Amanda? AMANDA: Yeah, usually the start of hurricane season, you have to get the boat out of that zone if you want to have a lower tier or price point. didn't have that luxury as a live aboard and had to stay in hurricane zone during hurricane season and therefore my premium was much, much higher than someone who had the luxury ⁓ either go ⁓ of North Carolina ⁓ south of Grenada and completely get out of that hurricane zone. But, you one of the things we see in Fort Lauderdale and most likely the Bahamas as well is ⁓ Most of these insurance companies want the boats to be hauled out of the water come hurricane time. And in Fort Lauderdale, where real estate is astronomical, and in the Bahamas, where real estate is very, very toppy, there's not much of it, it's very hard to have that and the haul-out facility and ⁓ being strapped and all those different things. So if you're one of the lucky ones that can have a slip and a dedicated to haul your boat, great. Edvardo Humes: this. Maryline Bossar: Rare. AMANDA: it up there, get it out of the water, not everybody has that luxury and therefore the cost can be significantly different ⁓ have the boat ⁓ the islands during season, but it is a requirement so it must be done. Maryline Bossar: Yeah, it is. And I would add to that the requirement to plan early as Edvardo was saying, because we're approaching May timeframe. That means, you know, a transfer of ownership around the June timeframe, which is when you need to have a plan made and it might get difficult. again, talking to professionals in the industry, asking the right questions will help. But the sooner you can get going on this, the better off you will be. Edvardo Humes: Mm-hmm. Maryline Bossar: I wanted to return to the engine conversation because that's a lot of your expertise Edvardo when it comes to understanding systems of boats. And I'd to speak a little bit more about the engine in the, in the perspective of a new buyer who does not understand yet engine maintenance. So kind of take it back to the basics. If you could share with us, the most common engine problems that you see and the boats that you survey if we start there. What are the things that you've observed? Edvardo Humes: maintenance not a lot of seals go bad. I'm not changing the seals Overheating of the engine so basically the seat strain is I'm a clogged so a vessel Comprises of a lot of systems that works together Engine oftentimes overheat because either the C-stream is or clouds or there's a bend in the hose line that doesn't give good flow of fluids or not being changed. All of these things, not flushing out the engines when it comes to usage. all of these, basically a corrosion. I would say it's been a few things together. Corrosion on the seals, a lot of that vibration. Your engine mount's not being sturdy, so that causes vibrations as well. There's a few things regarding engine issues I've come across in the field. Maryline Bossar: And I'm noticing a bit of a pattern in what you just kind of spelled out. A lot of this can be prevented. A lot of this can be addressed with good preventative maintenance, having eyes on your engine, your engine block. you start your boat, inspect your engine bay, your engine room, right? See what you can find because the telltales will be there. And then inspect again once you first start the engine. Make sure everything's running properly. Edvardo Humes: Yes. Yes. Maryline Bossar: Take note of questions that you may have, like some of description of uneven mounts ⁓ drippings or... Edvardo Humes: Yes. I would also add temperatures. When it comes to an engine, temperatures tell a lot of the story. If you start the engines and you realize that the temperatures were consistent and then all of a sudden you start your engines and you see that they either spike or they higher, this should raise concern. So just pay attention to oil pressures, temperatures, sensors, make sure your sensors are in good working order. These are little Maryline Bossar: Okay. Edvardo Humes: stories that the engine and also a vessel tells you. A lot of times it's a big incident doesn't happen all at once. It starts small. In the field for an example, I did a survey on a vessel and they neglected to fix the exhaust manifold an exhaust part for $300. Shortly after that it cost them, I would say, about $20,000 to repair for a $300 part. These are little small things in the industry. Hose get deteriorated, they don't change the hose, or they don't pay attention to hose. All of these things happen. seals also they don't pay attention to seals allow water to get inside the engine that's a that's situation so small things lead to things whenever you have deferred maintenance Maryline Bossar: Good point. AMANDA: It's just one more reason to have somebody come out if you're not doing it yourself or not trained to do it yourself. It pays to have someone come out and check these little things because like you said, a $300 part can prevent a $20,000 problem. And we all know that the resale value on these vessels depends on the maintenance. And if a boat has been sitting for a year, you're going to feel the asking price in that consequence basically. a little bit of money to have somebody go out, check the boat, maintain things if you're not able to do it yourself or you're not there or available makes a of difference comes the time when you have sell the boat. Tell us though, Edvardo, there a difference between versus outboard? Does that environment affect one more than the other? When you talk about corrosion and seals, is exposed, one has the cowling over the top and that's it. Edvardo Humes: With regards to diesel vs outboards, Diesel engines would cost more regarding ⁓ maintenance, but you once my personal experience get much life out of it. Outboard as well, should you flush it and maintain it you a good usage out of it. Me personally, I would not really have a preference. depends ⁓ Diesel has much more Yeah, I would say diesel. For me, a diesel engine, very well maintained. I would take a diesel over and outboard. For me, me personally. Maryline Bossar: Okay, that's very interesting, considering we've seen the trend in the industry where power boats are now sold at an overwhelming majority with engines. But again, for certain types of vessel, diesel is the go-to, a lot of sailing in particular run forever and for thousands upon thousands of hours. So. It goes back to some of the things we share with our clients. It's not so much having the hours or on the engine, but how was that engine or those engines maintained? And if you have the answer to that equation, it's worth a lot. something to keep in mind. Edvardo Humes: Yes. Yes it is. Yes it is. Also, what I find also with diesel engines, the basics of ⁓ engineering when it comes to diesel, once have compression, and fuel, you're good to go. All board engines with the gas and all of these things could complicate things, but diesel you're pretty much good to go. AMANDA: okay. So fuel polishing, people fuel polishing for these older diesel systems where... Edvardo Humes: yes, you could recommend fuel polishing but that depends if you to do a survey and you notice that the Raycor is not a normal color. when it comes to surveying the fuel tanks That's not something that we actually do because we don't open the fuel tanks. That's Destructive testing then you have to reseal them and all of these things We as surveyors would recommend if you have the shifting climate like say if the vessel was way up north AMANDA: Yeah, we. Edvardo Humes: and it's been sitting for a while with diesel in it it's been laid up for 2-3 years then that's almost as a given. Did they use fuel treatment? Was there fuel treatment ⁓ If that's not the case then we just allow you to polish it or clean the tanks. Depending on the age of the vessel we could just recommend you just fully clean the tanks. AMANDA: Yeah, definitely rule of thumb. What you had mentioned before the exhaust elbow. It's a single most overlooked failure point and you it's a small little piece ⁓ that can cause some major problems quickly. Edvardo Humes: Yes. AMANDA: And one of the main things that I do every single year on my engine is the impeller. No matter what, I have a date on there and I change it every year. Even if I haven't the hours on the engine that I wanted to do in that year's time, ⁓ still change it because impellers can get their rubber and they can get brittle and they can break off and those different things. What have you seen in the industry about impellers and some of the headaches with that? ⁓ Edvardo Humes: like you mentioned, impellers should be changed regularly. It's actually part that is very much overlooked and it's very, very, very cheap. It's a couple of dollars and it's very important for the flow of water and for the cooling of everything. It's very essential but it's again one of those parts that are overlooked and cause serious issues. Maryline Bossar: Agree. wait till it fails. You've ⁓ if it failed. Edvardo Humes: The only way to the field. Yes. AMANDA: I get this question a lot, Edvardo, and I'd like to hear your response. I know what mine is, but I'd like to hear yours. A buyer will come to me and they'll say, well, this boat's got 800 hours on the engines and this one, and they're diesel engines. This one has 3000 hours on the engines, but this one's been sitting for the last two years with the 800 hour engines. this has been an operator, fully maintained, has a completely good log and maintenance book. one would you choose? Edvardo Humes: 3000 versus ⁓ AMANDA: on a boat that has been neglected and not maintained. Edvardo Humes: The the the hours vast is too great I would go with 800 the only thing as an owner I would suggest that you put some money into it It may require some money. I'm like we talked about getting everything changed engine rebuild hoses checked Especially if you are planning on using it very much so AMANDA: Okay. Edvardo Humes: are diesel engines, Yeah, I would go for the 800. Me personally would go for the 800. AMANDA: Yes, okay, I say, hey, don't be afraid of the 3,000 hours if the rest of the boat is good. Don't be afraid of it. I actually would be more cautious going into that boat that's been neglected than one that has been well maintained with the higher engine hours. Now, that's why asked you is because everybody's opinion is different and ⁓ their threshold risk is always a little different. Edvardo Humes: Now goes back to basically the exact same type of vessel. One has been neglected for two years, one has not. But it has 3,000 hours on it. The usage. That's a lot of, that's a big difference. If it was 1500 hours, by all means, the maintenance log is very much important because that means that the vehicle was cared for, it have had a much better maintenance program. But I'm looking at the longevity of the engine hours complete. When an engine gets around, I mean, depending on some diesel engines, you could go up to 40, I mean, depending on how it's being maintained and rebuilt and you can really get some years out of a diesel engine. so. My upfront cost would be much more. I would put more money in maintenance and try to establish a plan maintenance schedule for the 800 hour vessel versus 3000 that's just continued. But me personally, I would go with the lower engine hours. AMANDA: Mm-hmm. It might cost you more upfront, in the end, it saves you down the road, which is an interesting thing. Edvardo Humes: Yes. Maryline Bossar: And if you had to advise a client who's looking to buy a boat that's been sitting and so imagine it's a single engine on maybe a sailboat and it's 50 to 60 horsepower, a Yanmar type vessel. What do you think roughly is the cost to do like an engine overhaul? Like to do all the things that you presume haven't been done properly and to do all the maintenance and kind of start from fresh. What would you say that cost is roughly? Like less than $2,000? Edvardo Humes: Here in the, there, here in the islands it could be, it could be a little bit more, depending on your haul out. When you're thinking about doing all of these maintenance, you have to look at the vessel has to be hauled, and the vessel has to be stored. And all of, and then if the... Maryline Bossar: Okay. Sure. Yes. This is assuming the boat's already some other works. And so you're, as part of this, going to do an engine check and overhaul and just kind of the basic, assuming this hasn't been done and should have been done if we did everything related to the engine. Edvardo Humes: Mm-hmm. around 25 to 35 is I would say safe bet should should really be good. Yeah. Maryline Bossar: Okay. And then contrast this with the cost to replace, repower diesel on a sailboat like this. What would you say the cost? Ballpark. I won't hold you to it, but just to give a sense of comparison. Edvardo Humes: Hmm. Maryline Bossar: Can you speak to that Amanda? Have you had clients that had to be powered? Edvardo Humes: I would not. Yeah. AMANDA: Yeah, mean for one it really has to, it depends on how difficult it is to get the engine out of the boat. Do have to get a crane? Does it have to back up to a dock? mean there's so many variables to that. ⁓ Edvardo Humes: It depends. Yes. Maryline Bossar: So let alone the logistics and the labor, but the cost of the block alone, how much is a new engine for 50 to 60 horsepower? AMANDA: Oh, what a 50 horsepower Yanmar might be what six to $8,000 when you can find it, but then it's. the labor to install it, to get it there, and the other one out, and then put shaft and everything back together again and hook it all up. So ⁓ that's majority of the work. And the engine itself, the block of the engine, maybe a little 12, to 12, I would think you could get one for. the sky's the limit. Edvardo Humes: Thank you. Maryline Bossar: But then contrast this too with the downtime and all the unknowns surrounding that experience and getting that engine there and having the right labor and technician and all of that is such a huge task. you're buying a boat to go cruising, is that what you want to be doing or do you want to just go sailing? So comes down to your comfort level with the availability of maintenance records and your Edvardo Humes: Yeah. Maryline Bossar: comfort with doing that maintenance yourself down the line or learning because it's not difficult to learn. There's lots of great resources online to do that. The first thing you could do is just kind of look over the shoulder of your technician if they are not turned off by it completely. Sometimes they don't tell you when they show up at the boat to do the things, but if you're on your boat, just look at how they're doing it and then YouTube is your friend. There's a lot that you can do on your own. Read the manuals, educate yourself and then ask questions from your technician. Edvardo Humes: Another thing I would like to add is in my line of field I recommend sometimes an engine survey. It's not common and persons don't do it. They just prefer a pre-purchase survey. Now conducting a pre-purchase survey is great. but I recommend sometimes an engine surveyor. An engine surveyor is a separate cost That right there would tell you everything. He brings his computers. Basically, you go for a sea trial. He's able to tell you pressures, bar score. He's able to give you the full logistics of that engine. And sometimes, owners don't take that advice. Maryline Bossar: Absolutely. Edvardo Humes: and then a year and a half down the line they have engine problems. you're about to make an investment, isn't expensive, maintaining it is. And what I always recommend my clients is if you're serious about this, do as much investigation as possible. Do your pre-checks, your pre-purchase surveys, have your engine surveyor, check the vessel for sea trials, see how it performs, and then make an analysis of it. Spending $5,000 $8,000 on the upfront to make an investment on a $1.2 million vessel is nothing. But sometimes buyers do not want to actually do the work to do the investigate, you know, to investigate the vessel properly. And so a slogan in the industry, which is, ⁓ for break out another thousand. If you don't do your due diligence, when goes wrong, you will definitely have to bring out another thousand. And so that's or two, you know. Maryline Bossar: Correct. too. Edvardo Humes: or two. And so that's something I advise my clients, especially with the pre-purchase surveys. AMANDA: Yeah, that's very good advice. here. We definitely recommend, you know, on these larger engines when the hours are up higher, not even going as far an oil sample survey, you know, those oil samples at survey, go one step further and actually get the mechanical on the engines. Let's switch a little bit now diesel engines and talk more about outboards and ⁓ around outboards. Maryline Bossar: Yeah. Edvardo Humes: Yes. Okay. AMANDA: board engines since we've learned from our podcast with InfoLink about the trend moving from inboards to Can you talk a little bit more about the maintenance on that? Edvardo Humes: The maintenance with outboards are pretty much ⁓ Once you have your flush, it's pretty much compact. It's easier to I would replace an outboard You don't have do any cutting. You don't have to do any it's just like a plug-and-play you just off one on one the maintenance an outboard is is much simpler. Once you keep your flushes, fluids intact, you check your oil, you change your oil with the required time, it's pretty much easier. And so there's definitely a trend in moving towards outboards because of the ⁓ ease of and ease of replacement. Very much easy to have outboards. AMANDA: Yeah, I've heard that too. mean, have a hull that can last 30 plus years and you know that those engines aren't going to match that. So to be able to, like you said, take one off, unhook it from the harness, the wiring harness, put another one on, ⁓ it in, you're good to go. And know, I have done maintenance on both and I'm telling you, it's really easy to just drain the lower ⁓ unit out. It's so easier. Edvardo Humes: Yes. Good to go. Yeah, myself. AMANDA: bending over and trying to get in these small spaces to do your maintenance. ⁓ Right. And I think that is why we're seeing the trend because obviously ⁓ harder maintenance is the less you're going to want to do it. Edvardo Humes: with the diesel engines, yes, you don't have to worry about no shafts, don't have to worry about none of the seal, it's just plug and play. It's pretty much, yeah, it's much easier. AMANDA: And the easier it is, like you said, just get into a routine, do those saltwater flushes, check your anodes and the annual maintenance on an outboard engine. What would you suggest that is per se, a diesel engine every year, the cost. Edvardo Humes: Yes. if you're doing it yourself, like you basically said, the lower unit, changing the oil what would that cost if you're doing it? AMANDA: Couple hundred bucks, under a thousand. Edvardo Humes: Yes, it would definitely be under a thousand. ⁓ Definitely be under thousand per engine. Definitely. costs. Diesel would be much more. ⁓ But yes, the outboard and then the outboards you can kind of it yourself. If you watch a technician do it two or three times, you can do it yourself. ⁓ Change the Yeah. Change the plugs. Yeah. Yeah. AMANDA: Yeah. Maryline Bossar: per engine. AMANDA: Yep. Yep. Yep. I've done it. It's just too easy. You take the screwdriver, drop the pan down there, oil drains, pour some in, good to go. Edvardo Humes: Yes. Have your salt away. your salt away flush. It's very much, very much easier. Spray down your components. Make sure your calen seals are good. Because the salt once you know, you keep that salt out, spray down your engine with WD-40 or Corrosion-X. You're pretty much good to go. AMANDA: Yeah. Yep. Yep. The bow shields T9 is my friend. Yep. Edvardo Humes: Yeah, yeah, indeed. So. Maryline Bossar: I have a question that's a little bit more general because people, especially when they learn about boating and buying a boat, they really want to understand, what's the best boat out there? What is going to last? What is going to be the positive experience in terms of ownership and maintenance? And seeing you are in one of the most demanding regions in the world, as far as, saltwater, know, year-round season pretty much with the exception of hurricane season. You've seen ⁓ the environment can do to all kind of boats. Do think the reputation of brands means anything anymore when we say, you know, this kind of boat, know, the Boston Whaler is the best there is, or this type of catamaran is way better built? What does that weight? ⁓ bring into the equation of a multi-year ownership experience? Does that hold any water or is it really just again going back to the maintenance that each person will bring and the care they'll bring to their vessel? Do people ask you, hey, what's the best boat and what do you answer? Edvardo Humes: Yes, does water to a point. ⁓ You do have the brand names you do have vessels that are built completely different, ⁓ lay up different, use a different and fiberglass and so that in itself quality you do have to take into consideration. However, it all goes down to the maintenance. It all goes down. If you're like in the Bahamas, if you do not wax Maryline Bossar: Okay. Edvardo Humes: and polish, can have gel crack crazing, sorts of things that UV damage brings, elastomeric material can dry rot, all of these things and then that deals with the seals, the water intrusion. So basically maintaining the vessel is I would say If you apply the 80-20 rule, Maryline Bossar: Got it. Edvardo Humes: maintenance would definitely give you a much, much better outcome than buying a Freeman yacht or buying an Intrepid or a Boston Whaler or then neglecting it and then comparing it against a lower brand. Maryline Bossar: Got it. But it helps to start with the good fiberglass, the right built method, the right stainless steel grade, all of these things, right? This is what reputation brings. AMANDA: Right. Edvardo Humes: Yes. AMANDA: That was one of the examples I was going to say. A ⁓ thicker, duty stainless steel ⁓ going last a lot longer, even neglected, as opposed to a very thin, ⁓ very level that you'll see corrosion in within a year or even six months in some cases. And you'll see that when a boat is less expensive, going to know that the cheaper grade of stainless, of fiberglass, of the glass Edvardo Humes: Yes. Maryline Bossar: this season. AMANDA: last material in general, you're going to see the wear and tear on that so much more quickly than you are going to see it in a ⁓ quality to start with. So you have to compare apples to apples on that one. And that's why some of these name brands have their acknowledgement is because they start with the good materials begin with. Edvardo Humes: Yes. their reputation, yes. Maryline Bossar: Yeah, really good point. We've already made the case, Edvardo, that a pre-purchase survey is an important investment upfront because you're getting rated by a million dollar bow, a two million dollar bow, spending that money with the right person or that could be a team, right? You have your general surveyor and then an engine being done by a specialist is essential, right? What can you share with us the day going to be like if you book a survey with a client, what can they expect? Can you give us the morning till evening sequence of events for a survey with you? Edvardo Humes: Okay, so if you're booking a pre-purchase survey, I would recommend an in and out, the vessel to be hauled out. And so I would show up there in the morning, depending if the vessel is already under hard, what I would do is I would survey the underwater parts. I would conduct a phenolicomic test, make sure that there's no delamination going on. sounding I would check all of the seals depending on the type of running gear that it has. I would check the rudders. I would make sure that your through hulls are good, that they're not dry water. I would note the type ⁓ through hulls that they are, making sure everything is sealed. And then ⁓ the underwater of the vessel is fully inspected, Then we would splash the vessel. Once the vessel is splashed, what I would normally like to do before I do the sea trial is I would like to start up all of the systems. Generators, make sure all of the pressures are good. Test electrical systems, make sure everything is good. Basically all of the systems that require water. pump, make sure that your water pump if you're doing a pre purchase survey, pumps are working good, your macerators are working in good working order and then after that we would do a sea trial where we would test the performance, we would check your navigation systems, your GPS, make sure your compass are good and then if it's a sailing vessel we would hoist the sails rather permitting, make sure that there's no tears in the sails, it's not a sailing vessel we would just basic figure of check the performance the vessel and then bring it back. Making sure all of your systems is good, making sure all of your batteries are good, yeah, bring it back and we would have good day, it would be a very eventful day. Maryline Bossar: When you say you test all the systems, coming back to the electronics, for example, if there is autopilot, you will verify the autopilot holds a course, correct? Okay. If you've got, obviously, charts, if the are present for the chart plotter, you verify that all the units not only just turn on, but actually display the chart and that everything is working as expected. Edvardo Humes: ⁓ yes, definitely, yes. Maryline Bossar: If you don't have a read on depth and wind speed than you're supposed to, you will make a note of that in your survey report. Edvardo Humes: ⁓ yes, in one of my previous surveys, the had us on land. vessel was driving on land ⁓ and you'd surprised know the... Maryline Bossar: Whoops. Edvardo Humes: these circumstances that happens. And it's easy for us to be able to miss if they're not paying attention and actually have a checklist. And so all of these navigation systems to make sure that, we actually are at this location. And so all of these checks is essential. Because it was funny. I looked at it and I'm like, oh, we're going over land. Maryline Bossar: Another Another thing that came up recently in one of our conversations on the podcast is whether or not you get all of the chain out to verify that the chain, the ground tackle is in good condition. Is that a requirement from a surveyor under affiliation Is that a requirement under SAMS to do such a thing or do you go out of the way and do it every single time or only when asked what's your there? Edvardo Humes: process when it comes to the anchor chain or the anchor rode, it depends. I would first take into consideration the age of the vessel. and I would inspect that if the chain of good grade G4 marine grade type of steel chain I would look at it to make sure that there's no corrosion. If there is corrosion or there's sight of surface corrosion heavily then I would extend the chain look at the bitter end to make sure that everything is good. But if the vessel is within five years the anchor still shiny Maryline Bossar: No. Edvardo Humes: ⁓ You know, this is not something you would check. I would also check to make sure that the ankle windlass is operational. Also, I would also check to make sure that the emergency is operational. Maryline Bossar: Very good. Edvardo Humes: Because sometimes the anchor will miss the operation but the break for the emergency it would not hold. And these are key components whenever you're dealing with anchoring because anchoring in emergency situation can save the vessel very much so. And so this is something I would look at. If it's like a 1980s vessel compared to a 2015, yeah, let's run the chain out. Maryline Bossar: Okay, very good. And do you assess the condition of the standing rigging and make any notes based upon condition and age? your ⁓ process there for assessing the mast the rest of the standing rigging when you're not sure how old that may be? What does look like for you? What do you look for? Edvardo Humes: Okay so I would first ask the owner the track record of the vessel. If it had done like two three Atlantic crossings and it hasn't had a standing and rigging survey because that's separate survey. I would recommend a standing and rigging survey separate. The surveys I conduct are from deck has crossed that line two or three times. I would also pay attention to a lot of the chain plates. The rigging, if there's cracks or corrosion, you can of verify. But these are checks I would recommend a professional when it comes to standing and rigging survey to be done. That's a whole separate survey, especially when you come with a different type of booms. carbon fiber, different type of carbon fiber versus aluminum, these require a little bit more technical expertise. AMANDA: Yeah, and that's good. We often will and you'd need a full rigging inspection from a rigger who does this every day and knows what the cost is to replace these things. Because obviously ⁓ you, know everything about And just like you referred to a mechanical inspection for the engines, you can also refer a rigging inspection there. I know, and this is one of the Edvardo Humes: Yes. No. Yes. AMANDA: why I like working with you, but me when there is a significant issue that's found. Are going to freak out ⁓ and you going to say, my gosh, look at this? Or how do you handle a situation when maybe a and seller are both on board and you see and find something of a significant on the vessel? How do handle that? Edvardo Humes: ⁓ What I would first do is I would document it, take photos of it, I would write it down, and I will continue the survey and go into an interview process because want to see that, I want to make sure that if the buyer knows about it, then... I would, you know, just point it out to his attention. If he doesn't know about it, I would be cautious with seller. I would also ask them ⁓ if they aware about it. Or I would try to, I guess, come with the price to repair. In the field, I've came across vessels that had structural issues. pretty big on cost to However, if buyer aware of these and he wants to that, that's something that I would put into a report. But you have to be very careful whenever you find things that can cost the buyer to fully commit or walk away. Maryline Bossar: yeah, what you're really trying to articulate here is you're here to give the best third party assessment that you can. And then it's up the buyer to determine their Edvardo Humes: Yes. Maryline Bossar: willingness to take on any level of risk associated with that boat. we're not suggesting that you're not going to tell the true assessment, but you're trying to use the best judgment in sharing the assessment so that it's very clear whether or not something is minor or something is more critical. ⁓ when something appears critical, we then follow on and help the client assess the cost to repair or replace. And this is all part of the buying process, right? The negotiation. Edvardo Humes: Yes. AMANDA: You brought up a really good point, Edvardo. A lot of the times you're doing this both the buyer and seller are unaware ⁓ that this is And it you, knowing, and a third party, unbiased person to come into this equation and say, hey, I don't know if you knew this, but structurally there is this issue here that no one took consideration. And the price point doesn't take that into consideration And so it's your job to Edvardo Humes: Yes. AMANDA: Diplomatically on both sides of this table because both sides are invested in having the boat sell But it could mean the world of difference if ⁓ if you Made too little it or made too big of a deal of it on both ends. So the diplomacy That goes both ways is an art and as a as a broker I've seen the dance go both So we really appreciate Edvardo Humes: Yes. AMANDA: when a surveyor can remain very unbiased and present the facts his report ⁓ not blow something either out proportion ⁓ or something seem too little when it really is ⁓ something Edvardo Humes: Yes. Maryline Bossar: Yeah. And I was going to add when something comes out to be pretty significant, usually a conversation that takes place on the day of the survey. You don't wait until three days later when you issue your report. Surprise, this major thing is concerning to me. It would come up sooner, correct? ⁓ Edvardo Humes: Yes, at the end of the survey, what surveyors would typically do is would give a preliminary report, whether it be over the telephone, and just give the, especially if the buyer is not there. What I suggest is normally the buyers be there. Maryline Bossar: 100%. Edvardo Humes: But if the buyer is not there, we just give them a preliminary report. Hey, these are the things I found. This concerning situations like that. For instance, did ⁓ on a vessel and they had a There was structural damages along the bulkheads. And after doing investigation, it was found that this type of vessel that year was actually recalled. And so what is the seller contacted the company of the vessel and what did was they were able to send someone down, get it sorted, and it was easy, simple, it was a simple fix. Instead of saying, hey, this... this is situation and you know you should walk away. That's not something that we do. Maryline Bossar: Yeah. How did you become aware of the recall from the shipyard, from Lagoon in this case? Edvardo Humes: Through investigation. Through investigation and... Yes. Maryline Bossar: Very good. So this is also part of your network of surveyors and in the industry. Very good point. ⁓ going back to who should be at the survey, we highly recommend that the buyer be present. And we have the listing broker as well present. And again, we're acting here as mediators ⁓ in this deal happen. We have two parties. ⁓ One to buy the boat. One wants to sell the boat. Edvardo Humes: Yes. Yes. Maryline Bossar: And we're trying to meet in the middle when something like this occurs. So again, some people buy boats with our brokers and absolutely doable, but this is what we do every day. We're there to manage emotions, to manage findings and to make sure that there's a fair outcome. At the end of the day, right? It's not just about getting the best price and squeezing every penny. It's making sure you get a fair price for a good boat and that there's no surprises. And as Amanda just said, sometimes Neither of the party know about an issue the two Yawbrokers, this is where they earn their keep. They're working together to make sure in all honesty, all the findings are shared and the solutions are found. We're not here to just say, your boat's horrible, my client's not gonna buy it. We're here to say, hey, you may not have been aware. It's collaboration truly between two parties. Edvardo Humes: Yes, yes it is. AMANDA: And that's another reason why both parties are present, the buying broker and the listing broker, because then they could to the other party, ⁓ well, your surveyor made that up. When they see it with their own eyes and good surveyors will point this out, ⁓ go and they'll say, hey, both listing and buying broker, want you to see this. And, know, ⁓ in instance, you know, there was tabbing that was coming undone and he basically stuck his knife underneath through the fiberglass of where the tabbing was coming up, you know, show us both. and no one could argue with the fact that the tabbing was coming up on this one point. So visually, we went back and asked for some off post-survey, it wasn't ⁓ no, you made this up or your surveyor was on your side or this is why are both present. party is present at the survey so that there's no he said, she said at the end. ⁓ Edvardo Humes: Yes. Maryline Bossar: All of these really great points and Edvardo, you're based in the Bahamas, you will survey boats anywhere clients want to see you, correct? You're not limited to just the Bahamas. Edvardo Humes: No, no I am not. I am a flight away or two. give me a call and if it's within region I'm definitely able to travel and I have traveled before with many clients. Maryline Bossar: Do you play it to it? AMANDA: Yeah. That's important to ⁓ Maryline Bossar: So I think you'll by now get this and we've said it before, thought boats were expensive to buy? Well, wait till you own one and we're here to make sure you're aware and you come into this experience with your eyes wide open. Yes, boats are expensive to own, but it all comes down to your safety and protecting you and your loved ones when you're on the water. So really we want you to thrive and to thrive, you need to fully understand the picture before sign, right? So we discuss maintenance, we discuss the environments and the impact. that a salty tropical environment can have on your boat. talked about engine and we talked about survey findings. Thank so much, Edvardo, for sharing all your insights with us today. I will be sure to share link to your contact info in our marine directory. This is where we place all of the details for the companies and the vendors that we've come across that we believe do a really good job in the industry. But don't take our word for it. You may find Edvardo's name and then do your due diligence. Contact Edvardo, contact others if you'd like. If you are in the Bahamas or the Caribbean or really anywhere in the world as it turns out, is here to serve you. Thank you again for your time, Edvardo, and I guess we might see you on the next survey. Edvardo Humes: Thank you again, Marilyn. Thank you again, Amanda. All right. Maryline Bossar: Thank you, Edvardo. Fair winds AMANDA: Fair wins. Maryline Bossar: how many boats a year do you generally survey? what do you think is the ongoing cost to own a cruising vessel in the Caribbean? Edvardo Humes: about 15 to 20 percent of the of the vessel every year. Maryline Bossar: every year. AMANDA: Yeah, every Besides engine hours, is most critical concern to be aware of when it comes to engines? Edvardo Humes: sure that your seals are good ⁓ all of the fluids are flowing as they should. Around 35 to about 50, but now I'm on track for 80 vessels and more. AMANDA: And what is the biggest surprise you've had during a survey? Edvardo Humes: A bilge full of oil on survey day. Maryline Bossar: How many SAMS credentialed boat surveyors are there in the Bahamas, Edvardo Edvardo Humes: I am one of three.