Maryline Bossar: Thank you so much for watching Full Displacement. If you'd like to see more episodes like this one, make sure to subscribe. Let's get back to the show. Hello everyone and welcome back to Full Displacement. This is the podcast by Current Yachts. I'm here today with Amanda Haley and Trey Reeder. Trey is from Howard Reeder, and his company is a customs broker, And that means that he assists, along with his colleagues, yacht buyers, yacht sellers who have concerns around customs importation duties, and we'll see probably a few more topics of the like. Trey, why don't you start by telling us how you got about being a customs broker and how long you've been in the marine business?

Trey Reeder: So the customs brokerage side of it, ⁓ oddly enough, I would be the third generation in Howard S-Reader Inc. my grandfather started the company back in the I guess it was 1947. ⁓ he was one of the very early customs brokers when test was actually given orally to get license to be a broker, at least the way my father told it to me. And then my father's been in the business for probably 50 plus years at this point. and

AMANDA: Wow.

Trey Reeder: I started in 2001 is when I joined the company. So been there for yeah, a couple of decades. And ⁓ Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've been around, been around for a while now. yeah, my father got into the yacht part of it. he'd been a ⁓ just a customs doing just normal cargo and shipments for years, and then someone called and and one day I think was Malcolm Forbes' boat called the Highlander.

AMANDA: Yeah, you put your time in too.

Trey Reeder: And my dad being South Floridaans and boaters and all that. I said, Boat, that sounds cool. Let me try that. he dealt with with dealing with an import with that and fell in love with it and said, I can do boats. Let's do boats, you know. and and the industry's grown, the business has grown, and then there's just more boats, and it's gotten more complicated and and turned into quite a thriving this professional yachting these days. So

AMANDA: Yeah, it's a niche market for certain. Are you a boater ⁓

Trey Reeder: Very much so. ⁓ yeah, I I used to I used to consider myself a boater. My then had children and my son started baseball and that kind of took away most of our weekends. But yes, we were very much ⁓ grew up on boats. ⁓ would spend, you know, weeks ⁓ in the and cruising the Bahamas with the family. I spent years basically as a mate on on some charter boats and and some private boats doing some ⁓ mating work and fishing tournaments, things like that and and I have my own smaller center consoles and things. So we've grown up, yeah, boating. first job was at a bait and tackle store, which was from know about four years till I graduated high school and then ⁓ went off to s to college. But but yeah, so we've been around boats and fishing and ⁓ did sailing when I was younger. ⁓ yeah, mean that's we kind of a a bit of a ⁓ glutton for punishment. like to to buy old boats and spend a lot time being itchy doing fiberglass and yeah.

AMANDA: And not just time, a lot of money too.

Trey Reeder: Yes, yes, yes. but yeah, we've we've learned we gotta stop doing that stuff a little bit just because yeah, time is is not on our side anymore. So they tend to sit. and my father's been a a really avid antique restorer so he'll buy these old nineteen fifties Chrisscrafts and bring to his garage and sand them and varnish them and sand them and varnish and rebuild old engines and do all that. So ⁓

AMANDA: Yeah.

Maryline Bossar: W We're gonna have to invite your dad to the podcast for a different topic altogether, I feel. ⁓ so for those of ⁓ our listeners who may have the prior episode we did on customs brokerage in general, we had a conversation with Michelle Tira Rotra from Compass Logistics Marine, and that a few months back. So already things have changed, and my first question naturally is we've seen so many dramatic changes in the yacht imports lately.

AMANDA: Absolutely, that sounds awesome.

Trey Reeder: Okay. Mm-hmm.

Maryline Bossar: ⁓ could you give us a round down of what's happened in the last six months more or less?

Trey Reeder: Sure. ⁓ well when I know when Michelle was on, I I she had kind of mentioned like, you know, we're waiting to find out what the Supreme Court says. Well now we know the answer to that was the Supreme Court shut down the IEEPA tariffs. but then the president immediately put in the Section 122 tariffs, which a which is worldwide tariff of ten percent. so that basically just went right into effect, which it in some cases has actually increased the imports a little bit because the number did go down. You know, let's say so many boats in Europe that that are, usually getting imported When they're fifteen percent, that all but died. ⁓ I I know originally when the IEEPA tariffs went in, it was like a light switch. I mean we probably least for the brokerage boats, for for yacht brokers that have customers coming in, I our business probably dropped ninety-five or more percent than

Maryline Bossar: Mm.

Trey Reeder: I'd say has barely come back on the used side. It's ticked up a little bit since the 10%, but that was yeah, not great for yachting world. You know, it it may work work for you know trinkets that go on the shelves where now they're eleven dollars something, but but when you're dealing with a guy with a half a million dollar boat who doesn't want to pay fifty or sixty thousand dollars, you know, to to find a buyer, that that really has slowed slowed that down a bit.

Maryline Bossar: Yeah, and ⁓ I think additionally the the volatility has not helped because things are changing constantly. It's hard to predict. You don't know what is going to happen tomorrow. In the case of clients that may have had to pay the higher duty rates and then that duty was reversed or re have you assisted some of these clients in ⁓ getting some of that money back? What does that look like?

Trey Reeder: For sure. Yeah. Sure. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. the customs came up, I think the the the normal systems that they had in place for refunds, whether it was an error or an overcharge or whatever it was, I think customs saw that and said, you know, ⁓ a second, this is gonna be way too big of a task to go through our normal course of action. So they came up with an acronym of CAPE, and God's escaping me what it's what what that acronym stands for, but C A P E system. And it allows it well very efficiently has has

Maryline Bossar: Mm-hmm.

Trey Reeder: made it pretty easy to file for those refunds. So we've certainly done that and and assist people through it. They they have to create an account on a thing called the ACE portal, where they create the account, but have to put their bank account in there as well, a US bank account, because the government does not use treasury checks anymore to send refunds customs only through ACH, which is something the the president has to put in place as well. ⁓ but once they have that account set up, then yeah we can assist on on

Maryline Bossar: Okay.

Trey Reeder: Filing that submission. I mean we have some big dealer importers that are owed millions of dollars that have actually already started to see quite a few of that you know, quite a few of their import entries be refunded already within the first thirty days. So it is a system that's working, which is good.

AMANDA: That is really here. so let's get specific about the current rates that we're talking about now. You had said that there has been implemented a 10 % across the board, but can you break that specifically to the countries for some of these certain manufacturers? So what I understand is it used to be the 1.5%, then it's the 10 % and it's, so now it's what, 11.5 % when you add those two together?

Trey Reeder: Sure. Right. Correct. Yeah, so it's eleven yeah, eleven eleven and a half percent for boats with inboards, eleven percent for boats with outboards, just 'cause normally they only have a one percent rate. but yes, it's it's baseline tariff plus these additional section one twenty two tariffs, which are the ten percent. but The difference between the IEEPA tariffs and these were those were very country specific where, you know, one country would be nineteen percent, another would be thirty, Europe would be fifty, fifteen. so that was also hard to try to keep up with because you know, from one day to the next, you know, another a country could be targeted and raised five percent or ten percent just on something another president may have said or something like that. So I know we had that with Brazil, where where they they bumped them up to fifty percent for a while.

Maryline Bossar: You can. Right. Okay.

Trey Reeder: based on an election result. So it was a little yeah, very hard to keep up with. But but with the Section 122 tariffs, it's a worldwide tariff of ten percent. ⁓ the only that at least right now that I can think of that has an additional tariff is just China, 'cause they're subject to this twenty five percent called Section O one tariffs that have been in place since twenty nineteen. Which which have s which have stuck. you know, th th those have not been struck down. I don't think anyone's been able to defeat that one. But so that's it for now. ⁓

Maryline Bossar: And for for clarity, what we're talking about here is any boat that was foreign built and never imported to the US. So in plain terms, what does that mean? It's not just new boats that you buy off of a shipyard in Italy of China. If there is a foreign-built boat outside of US waters that never paid duty, if you're buying that pre-owned boat, you're going to have to pay the duty. So that is why when we discuss, you know, with our clients, evaluating the listing that we're going to take on or a purchase that a buyer may consider. The first question to ask often, or one of the first, is is this boat duty paid? And do we have the the entry summary? So thank you for clarifying the the different rates for us. But it sounds like it's ten eleven or or China's got the higher rate, but that's pretty much the role, yes?

Trey Reeder: Sure. Yeah. Right. Yeah, and they're at thirty six and a half percent right now for most of their boats in China. So yeah, they're ⁓ that

Maryline Bossar: Yeah.

AMANDA: for a short period of time, I there was a caveat with South Africa on the Can you speak to that?

Trey Reeder: Yeah. Sure. So for a little while they actually mean that's the yeah, the African Growth and Opportunity Act, which is a free trade agreement between many of the countries in Africa and and particularly South Africa, 'cause that's Where most of the, you know, I guess catamaran sailboats and the leopards and those type of boats come out of. So they were at 30% with IEEPA tariffs, and also free agreement had expired, but they did re-up agreement till the of this year. So for a short period of time, South Africa was a little nervous they weren't going to be added back into it, but they were, so were happy with that. You're still subject, to the 10% tariffs, just not 1.5%. So it doesn't get you out of it's not a total free trade, but it's it it does lower it you know just a small amount.

AMANDA: Okay, so it does still keep everybody across the board to right around that 11 to 11.5 % besides China. So that is different from the past six months that we've been talking about. There were some countries that it was up to 45 % at a certain point. it's a lot.

Trey Reeder: It does, yeah. Sure. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. And a and a lot of the well, we've heard from a lot of the builders. I mean they're I they were happy that it came back down to the ten percent because it evened the playing field. I know the South African catamarans were, you know, they were struggling because they were having to compete with the the French catamarans that were half the half the import duty. So they were they were happy that at least the playing field's level you know, I mean thirty percent for them they said those were just numbers that, you know, destroyed their margins. They had almost almost not worth building boats. Yeah. So ⁓

AMANDA: Yeah, yeah, though this is definitely level things out. Yeah.

Trey Reeder: Least for the email. Right.

Maryline Bossar: I had a a follow on question to that. What are some of the mistakes that you've seen come across your desk from buyers when they're looking to import a yacht? just tell them, Hey, don't do it this way, do it this way?

Trey Reeder: So and it leads into more of the internals of the boat, things like the engines and stuff. We see that a lot. well not not not as often, but I I have seen, especially in the used boat market, where a broker will say, Bring your boat to the US, we've got a great market, and they'll sail their their boat up from the Caribbean somewhere and get here and have an unimportable boat. So that I know it's never is not a great look for the broker. Doesn't make you know certainly doesn't make the buyer or the seller rather very happy when that happens. So you want to make before you're doing that that you do have an importable product.

Maryline Bossar: Can you explain actually what that means? What makes a boat not importable? Yeah.

Trey Reeder: Sure. Sure. So at least in the case of the EPA, your engines, depending on their size and model year, are required to be US Environmental Protection Agency compliant. And ⁓ if are not, the government will not accept the import. So you so you you can't import it. So on the engines themselves, ⁓ especially I Catamaran market, a lot of them are running smaller engines, like smaller Volvo, smaller Yanmars, ⁓ those are usually very well labeled, a lot of those sizes actually they're compliance started in 1999 and 2000 so know ⁓ 30 years ago so even those those used boats that are that are ⁓ up there in age still need to ⁓ have that compliance. But typically there is a label on the engine will have what they call an EPA engine family name. And if you have that EPA engine family name that's issued to that engine for the model year, then it is a compliant engine. And and usually we'll also state that this engine is compliant for US CPA regulations for its model year. But that label is a requirement of being compliant. So all the manufacturers put that on there.

Maryline Bossar: Okay. And s so I guess you're saying perhaps that it's gone easier because everybody is just be more aware and and ⁓ pays more attention to those details. Okay, good to know.

Trey Reeder: Sure. Yeah.

AMANDA: Yeah, I had this happen on a beautiful, Farr 60. And someone was trying to bring the boat to the United States and realized that the engines were not EPA compliant. And then he couldn't bring the boat over here. And it was such a sad thing because it was a gorgeous, gorgeous boat. And he would have had to repower the vessel and get rid of a beautiful engine. you know, at that point it didn't seem... Yeah?

Trey Reeder: Okay. Right. ⁓ right. Sure. Right. Yeah. And trying to find somewhere to deal with it is a problem too. It's what do you do with that engine that's in that's in perfect shape. So yeah.

Maryline Bossar: Yeah.

AMANDA: Yeah, exactly. some of these things.

Trey Reeder: So that's usually my advice when a broker calls, or or when a usually a broker will have a buyer call us and we'll just discuss hey the ins and outs of an import. And usually that's one of my first things is make sure you're if you want to flag at US, you need to make sure you're getting an importable boat. So check the engines, see if you can get, you I guess we can probably move into that also the Lacey Act stuff as well, which that's harder on the use boats, but but yeah, to to to find those things, the compliant issues first, because at the end of the day, a boat's a boat. like the boat and you think it's built well, you're gonna want to buy it, but it fits within your plans of how you want to flag it and use it, then then you know that's I'd say the most important thing because that I have seen that ruin quite a few ⁓ deals. just the engines alone.

AMANDA: ⁓ And it's interesting, we've been running across this now recently even a boat US Coast Guard documented, and it's been in the US for many, many years to track down the import document, the form CBP 7501.

Trey Reeder: Right. Some example. Right.

AMANDA: Yeah, it's hard to do. And this could be, you know, 10 years later, we put a boat under contract for a 2014 which is a four-wheel boat and it's old. And to find that and to track that down is sometimes a challenge.

Trey Reeder: Right. Of course. Yeah, absolutely. We have I I probably spend at least a half an hour every single day looking for people's you know, brokers will send, Hey, here's a Hull ID number, we're looking for this boat, we got it listed, do you have it? So and a lot of times we do have those for people. So and and our records back almost twenty years on just our boats. We're required to keep for five years, but ⁓ but we keep them for almost

Maryline Bossar: Yeah that Right. Not everyone keeps them as long as you do. I can't I can tell you this.

Trey Reeder: Yeah. and and one thing we've always done and would want to make sure that their broker does is put the hull ID number of boat on the actual import because it's the only thing that's constant. You know, the name changes, the registration numbers changed, you know, but if if if you have the hull ID number that stays constant and it and you can always tie it to the boat because it every now and then we'll run into that with customs. not on a sales side. But more on on cruising permits, but ⁓

Maryline Bossar: Trey, for the difficulty too is that when you know who the customs broker is, you have a higher chance of finding this document. But what we had uncovered with Michelle and shared with our audience a few months back is that original entry summary is not something you can query and find from C B You're not going to find it. What does that mean?

Trey Reeder: Right.

Maryline Bossar: It means it's on you to prove that duty is paid on the vessel when you go to sell it or when you're buying it and there isn't that proof. It's on you to accept the risk ⁓ perhaps accept that at some point maybe you will be required to pay duty again because that is the only way to get this document if it's gone missing along the way. That document should follow the foreign boat from their first owner importing it to the US all the way through.

Trey Reeder: Sure. Yeah. Right.

Maryline Bossar: And before, I guess it didn't matter because people were thinking, well, it's one point five percent, big whoop. There was limited, I guess, enforcement or scrutiny, and everything's changed. So now more paying attention.

Trey Reeder: Right. Well, especially in the industry. I struggle with this, alright, and this is ⁓ less customs broker, just more normal human being thought. But if if I if I have a 25-year-old boat I can do maybe pull an abstract of title from the US Coast Guard and see that it's been Coast Guard documented five ⁓ you find bills of sale that were notarized in the US over and over and over. It's no different than me buying a Toyota off a Craigslist as a used car. That's my opinion on that. I do understand though that Coast Guard documentation obviously ⁓ prove that imports have been done because we've imported plenty of boats that, like you said, have just showed up here after being in the Caribbean for years and and needed to import because they they didn't realize they needed to after they'd owned the boat for so many years. But but in some of cases, it's just you know, I I have imported a lot of boats that that I'm sure were imported previously, but just you know couldn't get to closing. ⁓ I don't necessarily know much customs really look and go, ⁓ gosh, that's you w that's a Coast Guard documented boat or a US flag boat boat. where's that boat built? You know? It's ⁓ and it's it's from nineteen eighty three. I mean That part I think I like the maybe some of the maritime attorneys and should really get on ⁓ maybe create some consistency there for the industry Not that it doesn't help my business to import boats, but I d I get that call all the time. ⁓ and we just had one yesterday of someone who bought a boat for his family to cruise around on. It's had three Coast Guard he bought it in Alaska. It's been Coast Guard documented three times and only registered three times, so it's never been out of the US. as he was concerned that, know, with the tariffs as high as they were, is he gonna be responsible for having to pay ten or eleven percent duty? So it it's certainly a a a concern within the industry for sure.

AMANDA: Yeah. And we speak to it as a risk, it's really a risk only when the vessel has left the country and is then coming back in.

Trey Reeder: Right.

AMANDA: who knows what ⁓ you hit that customs broker, what kind of mood he's going to be in, if he's going to require proof ⁓ of the duty being paid. You may have your US Coast Guard documentation right there.

Trey Reeder: Yeah.

AMANDA: But if you don't have proof of that, he could say, was this paid? How do I know? So that's the risk that takes place. And it's also ⁓ to ⁓ ⁓ That needs to be proven at that time, too, when you sell your vessel. And that's what people need to realize.

Trey Reeder: Sure. Yeah. Sure. And more common, yeah, definitely. ⁓ because that comes up at closing all the time. we end up under the pressure of, ⁓ we need to close in two days, I need this import done. You know, and ⁓ from a broker's thought is, well, you should have done this two months ago when took the listing, you know, made sure all these ⁓ things were done, you wouldn't be having to push push closings or stress about them. So So yeah, finding out these things ahead of time. They're not the fun part. And I I get it too from the broker's standpoint of going, hey, I'd love to list your boat. I need you to pay forty thousand dollars first though, you know. those are always ⁓ that's a challenge.

AMANDA: Yeah. Yeah, that's a very, very real and I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to where they're saying, well, my boat is U.S. Coast Guard documented. Doesn't that mean that's duty paid? And we have to go back and explain that a vessel can be U.S. Coast Guard documented and never have entered the U.S. waters, therefore requiring the boat to have U.S. duty paid, because that's when it happens. we have to keep putting this into the heads of our listeners buyers and sellers these days that that

Trey Reeder: Yeah.

AMANDA: doesn't prove that duty has been paid.

Trey Reeder: Right. absolutely. ⁓

Maryline Bossar: And that's when the meaning of that phrase not for sale to US residents while in US waters in, right? This is a disclaimer that we legally must put ⁓ listings that may be in the US temporarily but are not actually duty paid. And it is against the law for us brokers to go and show this boat to a US resident while it is sitting in US waters. So just

Trey Reeder: Right. Yeah.

Maryline Bossar: warning sign on these listings. ⁓ be very careful. Yep.

Trey Reeder: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. ⁓

AMANDA: So let's talk about currency conversion rules ⁓ Why the exit date from a foreign port matter more than, the closing date?

Trey Reeder: So it's a it's a consistent date, is why customs really chosen that. it's very simple to just say, this is the date it left the country and that's the date we're gonna use. 'cause it's easy probably to manipulate your time, know, like, ⁓ well we'll wait a few days 'cause we're expecting the exchange rate to change, which will maybe I can, get get a lesser amount of duty that I owe. so that is at least from what I've read and understood about it for for is that just they have that one consistent date ⁓ that you can use which is date of export ⁓ and that's what's written in the regulations but that that is the the reasoning why behind it so yeah they're not they're not there to be compassionate about your dollars for sure ⁓ so so ⁓ i mean i

AMANDA: Okay, that makes sense.

Maryline Bossar: And so this is I was gonna say this is the date that matters as the basis for computing the duty, just to go back. So this would be a a conversion rate that is used CBP It's not exactly what is published as, you know, per the market rate. It's a CBP created rate, and it is based upon the the date of departure then.

Trey Reeder: Correct. Correct, yeah.

Maryline Bossar: There's a lot to unpack there. I could see why people call you. It's a lot.

Trey Reeder: Yeah. Yeah, we we've always had those thoughts of of like people call with some really weird questions, that have maybe been in the industry for years, at least on the yacht broker side, but I always forget it's like you're on the yacht broker side, not the custom side, and things change constantly, so they constantly are calling and asking for updates on things, which is good to see, we like to deal with it having yeah,

Maryline Bossar: To be frank, we're we're not gonna be the experts. That's where you come in and that's where our clients can can come to people like you to get to the source of the information that they may hear or see. let's take an example of someone looking to perhaps buy a European boat right now, a boat that's not in the US and they need to have it imported. Is there anything you can share with us in terms of timeline and

Trey Reeder: Sure. Sure.

Maryline Bossar: I is there any seasonality? I are there any advantages that you can share or in the current environment, not that you have a crystal ball, but what are some of the predictions you could make around the timeline?

Trey Reeder: Right. Yeah, so imp timeline wise, I don't I don't think there's really a seasonal thing. I mean, it's more now the tariff issue. the one thing we do know ⁓ is right now you until July twenty-fourth, when the current tariffs expire, ⁓ you know the number's be eleven and a half percent. my thought just from looking into things all that is I I the president had advised, I guess, this his staff or whoever to to start doing investigation. under 301, section 301 tariffs, investigating the countries to see if he can put in tariffs under the 301 section ⁓ other countries outside of ⁓ that he currently because those have stuck for him and since 2019 through another presidency and everything. So ⁓ my is after July that may be what we see because I don't think the are just gonna disappear, go back to the way they were. think ⁓ you're gonna still see ⁓ within days something new pop up and not knowing that's gonna be. you know, if you're comfortable eleven and a half percent can buy a boat and get it here before then, great. If not, it's kinda it's up in the air, you know, to what it'll be.

AMANDA: So we need to check back in after July is what you're saying.

Maryline Bossar: Yeah.

Trey Reeder: Right. Yeah. say around twenty second and ⁓ you know, a couple days before you'll start hearing rumblings, you know, of what what could be next. and and usually that that ends up being pretty close to what what ends up happening. So so we'll all be watching and learning at the same time.

AMANDA: So let's talk now about repairs that are done outside of the U.S. and how they become So can you give us a scenario of where this catches owners off guard? Do you have an example of that?

Trey Reeder: Right. So yeah, I mean the only time I've really had to deal with it because one thing is we're subject as at least custom brokers to having someone declare that to us. 'cause it is something you've you have to declare, which is also the same way that all these you know, a lot of times you get American flag boats that come in and don't, they they're here for years and aren't duty paid 'cause they didn't realize they had to do that. and then they also have to disclose it to you. ⁓ the ones that I have seen are are kind of the ⁓ are are are ⁓ when someone buys boat overseas and then does a lot of repairs to them and

AMANDA: Right. ⁓ Right.

Trey Reeder: Brings that value up. So they may buy a boat for $600,000 and then dump a half a million dollars into it. And when they get here, you have a million-dollar boat. It's not now a five or six hundred thousand dollar boat that you can import on. So in those scenarios, we we have seen that. I've seen that on on grand levels you know, we bought a boat for three million and now it's done eight million dollar refit in Canada and coming back in, and you know things like that. So it's ⁓

AMANDA: What kind of documentation do they have to give you? mean, so they come in, they say, oh, here's my bill of sale for $600,000. What else are you going to require of them to prove like, OK, we put $500,000 worth of extras in?

Trey Reeder: Well, so yeah, if they if they if they if they admit to yes, we've done all this work to the boat, then usually Well that's the thing. So it's ⁓ we're subject to what people tell us, right? And what the information they provide is. But ⁓ in that case, yeah, you would you normally need to get receipts from the yard or are or or any of the contractors that did the work on on the boats, you know, whether it's you know, full electronics packages for $150,000 and and things like that. So so usually it's mostly invoicing

Maryline Bossar: I was going to say, is that really common?

AMANDA: Thank Right.

Trey Reeder: ⁓ from from ⁓ you know the vendors that did the work and that's how you can add that value in.

AMANDA: Okay. Yeah, we see this oftentimes where a boat was bought in a US LLC and the boat went straight into charter in the islands. ⁓

Trey Reeder: Right.

AMANDA: then the boat wants to be sold in US waters. So now the boat is five or six years old. It's obviously not payable at the same price point that they it at five years ago. So where would they go to get a valuation on their vessel? what is the standard for being able say, okay, we're going to take this valuation and duty on it?

Trey Reeder: Sure. Right. So kind of the third party, like non-affiliated, you know, so typically a surveyor. the marine surveyors can can put a value on it. and it, you know, it doesn't have to be a full, ⁓ you insurance survey or or pre-purchase survey, just basic condition of the boat and then they look in the market for you know recent sales of competitive vessels and and come up with with what the the estimated market value is. And customs readily accepts that.

AMANDA: Okay, so a marine surveyor valuation is enough. Customs will accept that. Great.

Trey Reeder: Yeah. Yep, it seems like the best. Yeah.

Maryline Bossar: I actually wanted to ask you a question on that, Trey. You might be aware that there are some changes in the industry platforms, the so-called MLS, and how dealers and brokers report values of boats sold. we have first hand examples of these all the time. We just settled on a transaction for buyers, so we represented the buying party, and the broker ⁓ simply deleted listing. I looked to see how it was reported and it was just gone. So when this happens, we're missing critical data points because we're referring probably to ⁓

Trey Reeder: Mm. Right.

Maryline Bossar: older dates that are not reflecting current market values. What are your thoughts on that? are you discussing this with your peers when it comes to people that rely on those market values? That includes custom brokers, surveyors in the industry. ⁓ When this data away, a lot of people will scramble and they are I think already scrambling now. Perhaps they don't really quite notice the impact, but it will get worse. ⁓

Trey Reeder: Right. Hm. So not not re I mean from from what we deal with it yeah, it's not something I've really discussed with yeah, anyone. I mean usually it's you know, we'll get a reputable marine surveyor, they'll send us a value and that's it. ⁓ so I don't question really where they get their information. But that that is interesting though, that they're going into what like sold boats and and and those different ⁓

Maryline Bossar: Mm. Yeah, so we've shared this information in in a prior episode, but the the short answer is sources for recent sales is mostly in the back end of the yacht world database today. The industry challenger YachtR does not have sold boats data that they report on. They ask the broker to provide it when the boat closes, but they don't share it with their subscribers, aka the the dealers and brokers. And then

Trey Reeder: Yeah. Right. Right.

Maryline Bossar: You know, people re refer to the the Nada guide and the buck guide. I mean, you and I know the kind of yachts we're talking about. You're not going to find valuable data there. They're kind of looking back as opposed to looking at the present time. so and been this for a while, I'm really concerned with how well we're going to do as an industry to report on actual market valuations and it impacts a lot of our industry and the fact

Trey Reeder: Right. Sure. Yeah, well I mean as if one of a broker's trying to come up with a value just to see if they can get a listing to present something. Yeah, I mean it's very nice to have actual data, that's for sure.

Maryline Bossar: Take them. Absolutely. That's the first conversation we have, buyers to sellers, is you know, if you're looking to sell your boat, what do you think your boat is worth? Let's look at what's on the market and what has sold. And the same for a buyer. They want to make sure they position their offer very strategically and with with again the data backing it up. So interesting to see where this will go.

Trey Reeder: Right. Right. Sure. Well yeah. If you wanna if you wanna be the fastest boat to sell, you know, you want to know what those sales are and maybe you get in the lower value or whatever you wanna value it right to to move it for sure. So yeah, that's interesting. There's always something, right? Yeah.

AMANDA: Yeah, and it's, industry and when there is no reliable source that can be trusted there is only one reliable source and you have to pay to have access to it. ⁓ There, that's two things that maybe I think we should petition the states because states, we all have to pay taxes and they know. ⁓

Trey Reeder: Right. Yeah. Sure.

AMANDA: what boats got actually sold for. And that is the truth. And what we should do a is say to the states, can we get sold boats, reliable sold boats data from where taxes are paid? That to me would be the perfect place to get true source of.

Trey Reeder: Right. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, well true numbers, right. Yeah, absolutely.

Maryline Bossar: I d I don't know. We'll have to about this some. I feel like a lot of the times there are areas where some of the sold boat values for registration purposes are not always going to be reliable either. So it's to be taken with a grain of salt, but I I'm afraid we we stepped or walked into a can of worms and don't quite know what will come out of it. But we are aware and we we want our audience as well to know it and

Trey Reeder: Right, right, right.

Maryline Bossar: And I wish the industry had a kind of a better answer for what's to come and at the moment we we simply do not have it. So we have to rely on the data that we collect as our own sales and we work with surveyors, of course, and it's going to be much more reliable if it's in our closer circle than it would be through reported sales or actually absent sales.

Trey Reeder: Sure. Sure. Yeah, I guess that's true. You have other friends that are trusted yacht brokers that you've worked with and you can almost create your own databases ⁓ within trusted people. ⁓ be ⁓

Maryline Bossar: But I I really hope that the IYBA and YachtR will will fix that for us really soon. So more to come. so before we wrap up, I guess the question is for Trey, how our listeners know what to ask and what to look for if they have to work with a customs broker, they can see that they have this issue they're gonna have to tackle. How do you pick a customs broker?

Trey Reeder: Well I would say I would certainly find one that does Boats primarily. there's probably I mean I can think of four or five of us customs brokers that do specialize in boats. because that when I do entries of ⁓ of brokers that just brokers, people ⁓ I found a broker in my state and they imported the boat for me. I mean anyone can can get through the process, although it's gotten a lot harder with the Lacey Act and things like that that some may not know they needed. But but there are certain things like that that all of us do that that are in the yachting side of it, like putting whole ID numbers on these imports, because I get a lot of those that that I can't do ⁓ a customer, for instance, ⁓ a foreign flag vessel, which we deal a lot with, doing cruising licenses. We do permits almost every single day. ⁓

Maryline Bossar: Right. Mm-hmm.

Trey Reeder: And there's a there's a way you can get a cruising license successively. When one expires the very next day they'll give you a new one if your boat's duty paid. if I can't tie that duty payment to the actual boat, then won't accept it. So we'll present documents to customs, but it will just say, yeah, this is the manufacturer of the boat, but it have anything that says, yeah, this this is the same official number or hull ID, anything that actually ties that piece of paper to that boat, so other than the

AMANDA: I see.

Trey Reeder: but there but it is very specific, ⁓ the the yacht stuff. it definitely is. you don't wanna have someone importing seafood, also importing your boat, 'cause you're just two different things, you know.

AMANDA: very true. ⁓ how do they specifically contact you, Trey?

Trey Reeder: they can go through our website, which is howard s readerinc dot com. put that ⁓

Maryline Bossar: we'll make this really easy for Trey. We're actually going to put the link to the Marine Directory for Howard Reader in the description of this video. we've also listed some other customs brokers. So again, it's up to our listeners to to do their due diligence and choose people they want to hire, whether a customs broker or marine lawyer or documentation agent. We have lots of resources there.

Trey Reeder: Sure. Sure. And I will say we also a lot of us do work together. There's certain things that I don't do that I'll call say I'll connect them with Michelle or Michelle will need something that she doesn't want to do anymore, so I'll do it because we still do it. You know, so ⁓ so there is a one thing being in the niche business customs and yachts is not too many of us and one way or another, if you have a request that I can't do, I know who'll do it for you and and can do it the best. So

AMANDA: It's great to hear you guys work together.

Trey Reeder: Sure. ⁓

Maryline Bossar: thank you so much, Trey, for joining us. We look forward to seeing you on a future episode of full displacement. Fair winds!

Trey Reeder: Awesome. Thank you, it was very fun.

Maryline Bossar: the biggest blind spot you end up solving for your clients?

Trey Reeder: feeding them the information that they didn't know they needed to actually import their boat.

AMANDA: Does the location of your yacht specific customs broker actually matter?

Trey Reeder: it does some cases, but not always.

AMANDA: So US Customs means the whole US.

Trey Reeder: Correct.

Maryline Bossar: Trey, you're now the third generation of customs broker ⁓ Howard Reader Inc. How many yachts do you think were imported by your firm since nineteen forty seven?

Trey Reeder: ⁓ gosh. nineteen forty-seven I don't know, but in the last twenty years, I say somewhere between five ten thousand easily.

AMANDA: And what the biggest import bill you have ever seen one of your clients pay?

Trey Reeder: million dollar yacht was about one point two million dollars in import duties. ⁓