Rhonda: Hi and welcome to Becoming Unapologetic. I'm Rhonda and today I have with me my friend and co-worker Vicki. We work in social services together so Vicki say hi. ⁓ Victoria: Hello everyone, my name is Vicki and like Rhonda said, I work in social services with her. pretty much working with children. And I was an RVT for some years. I was a DCP for some years. I was a preschool teacher for some years. So everything child centered, I was in there. Rhonda: That's why I call her the child whisperer. Victoria: and I'm happy to be here. ⁓ Rhonda: Okay, Vicki, your parents grew up in Jamaica, correct? Victoria: Correct. Rhonda: So I thought it would be fun to hear how it was for you growing up in the States with parents that grew up in Jamaica. Because I would think culturally, your growing up was a little different than the kids you went to school with. Victoria: very different from the foods to just how I was raised was very different. There were certain things friends were allowed to do and I wasn't allowed to do. ⁓ My parents made sure to keep me on like a ⁓ little leash. But I mean, the love was always there regardless, but it was just very, very different. I wasn't allowed to spend the night at friends houses. ⁓ they didn't believe in that. They felt like I have a bed at home, so I need to be at home in my bed. dating was weird for a long time. I wasn't really allowed to date, but my brothers were. So that kind of, yeah, it wasn't, I think because of, you know, obvious reasons, ⁓ was like, we have to keep her like closed, but I'm like, my brothers could have ended up in the same type of situation. Rhonda: ⁓ that's interesting. Victoria: So why am I not allowed to branch out and date and stuff? But I found ways around it. It wasn't the best way to handle that type of situation because when I would get caught, it was not good. So I was better off just listening and following the rules instead of diverting and trying to come up with my own plan. Rhonda: Did your friends understand or do they kind of, don't make you feel odd about the way your parents were implementing rules. Victoria: I mean, I felt like they were kind of understanding, but when I would go to sleepovers, I could stay for the party, but I couldn't stay for the sleep. So they'd like, ⁓ Vicki, your mom's here. Like, it's time for you to go. And I'm just like, ⁓ and going to school, you know, that following Monday, it was like, ⁓ what happened at the sleepover? Like this happened and that happened and this happened. And I felt like You know, I wasn't really included in that because I can spend the night. I'm sure they weren't trying to make me feel bad for not being able to spend the night, but at the time I felt like, like I felt like they were poking at me and taking jabs and stuff because I couldn't stay. Rhonda: That must have made it difficult from all levels of how you felt about yourself in some way. Victoria: Yeah. Because I felt like there were things like they would have jokes and I wasn't really in on the joke or like something would happen and I would have to like find out secondhand of what happened and it may not have been like what actually happened. It was just like bits and pieces and I don't know. I'd like to know things. So the fact that I, you know, didn't know, was like, ⁓ man, I wish I could have been there for that or that sounded fun. ⁓ Rhonda: ⁓ yeah, of course. Victoria: Another thing too was like food. I would talk about, you know, the certain things that we would eat and kids can be mean. So for instance, oxtails. I went to school, I believe I was in like the sixth or the seventh grade ⁓ ⁓ were talking about food and I said, you know, how my mom makes really good oxtails and the kids were like, ew. Rhonda: Really? Okay. Victoria: you eat the tail of an ox, like that's gross. And I'm like, okay, maybe that is gross. So for years, I couldn't eat it because all I kept thinking about was, you ew, you're eating a tail of an ox. And then I ate it one day when I was an adult and I was like, I've been missing out for years because of what? Because they couldn't understand what I was eating. Rhonda: what people said. Victoria: Like that was, yeah, it was kind of mean. Rhonda: Well, and now people love Jamaican food. Victoria: ⁓ yeah, it's amazing. Rhonda: the spicy everything. mean, it's just, yeah. And people. Victoria: Delicious. And it's not necessarily the tail of an ox. It's cow tail. But it's delicious either way. Rhonda: Right. Yeah. ⁓ And now how, like you have kids, how do you raise them? Do you bring that culture into it? Victoria: The respect factor, making sure that they ⁓ respect for people who ⁓ older. ⁓ I do make it known, it goes both ways. ⁓ me, was like, no matter what an adult says to you, you kind of have to just grit your ⁓ and bear it. You can't say anything back, you just have to deal with it. ⁓ want them to advocate for themselves if they feel like they're being disrespected in a respectful way. Rhonda: Right. Victoria: you know, let that person know you crossed the line and I don't appreciate it. So I try to let them speak for themselves. For ⁓ good portion of my childhood, was, ⁓ know, child is to be seen, heard. You can't say anything. ⁓ you're not supposed to say anything. ⁓ adult has the final say so. I don't want them to lose their voice. Rhonda: ⁓ yes, I'm familiar. Right. Victoria: Like I had to try to find mine. So I let them express themselves respectfully. Rhonda: Right, well you're trying to build up their self-confidence and their self-esteem where when you were growing up you probably didn't have, you probably weren't the confident person that you are now because of those differences. Victoria: Mm-hmm. No, I wasn't. couldn't, what is that? My throat chakra was not open. It was very closed for a long time. Cause I felt like whenever something would bother me and I would try to speak up for myself, was like, it was being blocked. And that's not a good feeling to know that you want to say something, but you're second guessing yourself and you're, you're more concerned of like how that person is going to perceive it versus how it's gonna make you feel after you get it out. And that stays in there and it sits and it brews and it festers. And it's not a good feeling to have. So I want them to be able to speak their mind, say what they feel and be respectful at the end of it all. ⁓ Rhonda: Great. Well, how did you get to that point where, because it's a tough thing when you feel a certain way about yourself and you feel like very different, I'm sure, and you don't have a lot of confidence in yourself because, you know, one, it's hard being a kid. Two, you're coming from this other background where... Victoria: ⁓ huh. Rhonda: you know, your parents were raised a certain way and they're going to raise you that way. But it's so different than your friends, you know, you can't date, you can't sleep over. There's probably a lot of other can'ts in there. So just everything, everything in your household was very different compared to someone else's. How did you overcome that feeling? Because you very much embraced Victoria: Mm-hmm. I'm hungry. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: now who you are. You very much embrace it and it's a beautiful thing. And you know, you're your family, I have to think is amazing, you know, and just because of the person that you are, you bring that with you, but you now versus you then is probably totally different. So how did you learn to kind of accept that it's okay and work through that. Victoria: I definitely had to go through things and realize that I'm always changing and I'm always evolving. Those cants and how my parents were raising me definitely had a hand in who I am today. I think ⁓ my parents kind of realized, ⁓ hey, ⁓ may have had some hiccups and uh-ohs and boo-boos like along the way, you know, as far as raising our children. When I finally was like diagnosed, diagnosed with major depression and major anxiety, it was like, ⁓ wait, what? Like, what do you mean? What happened? And I'm like, yeah, I can't talk about things with you guys because every time I try to talk, was a shut it down. Rhonda: Right. Wow. Victoria: Every time I would like feel things, I wasn't allowed to feel things. So if I would start crying and my mom, I had to check her a few times. Cause to this day, like if I get upset about something and I start crying, she's like, don't cry, don't cry. And I'm like, no, I'm allowed to cry. And I'm going to cry. I know you don't want to see me cry because you're my mom and you don't want to see me sad, but I need to feel these feelings and this is what's going to happen. And once like we finally, had that talk, because my brother as well, you know, he, yeah. We had that talk with them about like how our mental health is, you know, how it's being affected. And it's like, ⁓ wait, whoa. Like we need to kind of take a step back and, you know, try to approach things differently now, now that we understand what has happened. Rhonda: Were your parents receptive? Victoria: They understand, they hear it, but I don't think it's not like, it's not something that they're going out of their way to really lay research and learn about and understand. Like they know, but it's not like a, we gotta, you know, let's see if we can do something within ourselves to kind of like, you know, fix this. Like earlier I was talking to my mom about mental health and. Rhonda: Gotcha. Victoria: people being depressed and stuff. And she was like, well, I don't believe in that. You know what I always say about that. You can always pretty much pick yourself up by your bootstraps and like carry on. And I'm like, that's your experience. You can handle that, but I can't. I have to like physically pull myself up. Not mentally, I have to physically pull myself out of bed. I have to physically make myself do these things or else I just won't do it. Rhonda: You know, ⁓ I find it interesting because people always talk about cultural differences. You know, you and I know that we get trainings on it all the time. But listening to you, I think how many amazing kids do we work with that they're not from outside the US or anything, but they Victoria: ⁓ huh. ⁓ huh. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: kind of parrot what you said. You know, I feel this way. My parents don't understand. can't talk to them. ⁓ My parents are like, what are you whining about? I had it much harder than you. And you know, when you break it down, there's differences, but on the baseline, it's pretty similar. Do you think? Yeah. Victoria: ⁓ huh. Mm-hmm. Very similar. When I hear it and, you know, I hear them complaining, I'm like, that sounds like me. I was saying the same thing at that age. I, you know, I get it. ⁓ It's not fun, especially, you know, when you want to, you know, you just want to, just want to live life. But I understand now, like why they were the way that they were. ⁓ Rhonda: Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Victoria: And granted, I'm not raising my kids up in that way, but I feel like I'm raising them very well. To be able to, Rhonda: Mm-hmm. The important thing. the important things, know, the moral compass. And I think it's extremely important that kids know how to advocate, as you're saying, respectfully for themselves. Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Very big on respectfully, because if you're approaching your parent in a way that they deem as disrespectful, anything that you're saying, and it could be very passionate to you, all they hear is the disrespect. They're not hearing what you're feeling. They're not hearing what you're saying. They're just hearing how you're saying it. So I always tell people, it's like, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Rhonda: Right? Right. ⁓ exactly. Victoria: So if you want like a more positive result, then you need to approach it in a positive way. Rhonda: Yeah, I agree. I for like my brother and I joke now because we'll be like, ⁓ yeah, what are we whining about? Mom or dad had to walk 10 miles in the snow uphill both ways to get to school, you know, because they would always say things to us, you know, we're giving you everything. Why are you complaining? Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Yep. ⁓ huh. Rhonda: You don't have to do this, this or this. And I think everybody has that story to some extent. It's like, we know that our parents didn't walk 10 miles uphill, both ways to school. There's just no way that could be. But the exaggerations of how bad they had it to show how good we had it, I think that's a normal thing. But. Victoria: Yeah. Rhonda: That's something you and I get to talk to these kids about is how to talk to their parents about how they're feeling. Because how you feel is valid. What you're thinking is valid. But if you present it in a non-respectful way, it's less valid. Victoria: Mm-hmm. Rhonda: Yeah, because that's something we we talk about and it's just, you know, I think there's a lot of differences based on your culture, but at the same time, like the food, yes, very, very different. ⁓ I went to Bogota as an exchange student back in the day and it was amazing. But their cultural, one of the big cultural difference was the Victoria: Mm-hmm. Rhonda: daughters. had chaperones if they went out for a date, if they were even allowed to go out on a date, they had a chaperone. And most females lived at home with their parents until they got married. So huge difference. like, gosh, that doesn't happen where I live, but that was the norm. And it seems so... Victoria: ⁓ huh. Mm hmm. Right. Rhonda: to the outside are looking in, it seems very different, very abnormal. But, and I think that's where it makes it harder when your background is different and you're raised, you were raised very strict. Not in your parents point of view, but in outside of the home view, it was very strict. And I think that's where kids, that makes it hard for you. Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: to feel good about yourself because other kids aren't raised that way and they don't have the ability to understand it or they don't want to have the ability to understand it. It's easier to kind of make comments, make fun of what they don't understand than to say, know, Vicki's family, that's the way they do things. It's easier to see as an adult saying, yeah, that's the way they do things. You know, I mean, I can remember when Victoria: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: My kids were lucky enough to have a cell phone, but we didn't have text because text was different. It costs a lot more money to have texting. You remember that? they would get upset. Their friends would be like, why don't you let them text? Why don't you let them text? Or why don't your kids have a TV in their bedroom? And it's like, who am I? That's not going to happen. That's not how. Victoria: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Uh huh. and ⁓ Rhonda: I grew up, that's not how I'm raising my kids, you know, but it's just different how it is. the way taking ⁓ what you ⁓ as a you know, growing up, ⁓ how you ⁓ and ⁓ that a positive ⁓ way in your kids ⁓ is, ⁓ powerful about you. Victoria: ⁓ huh. Very different. And another thing, like going back to like the don't crying, like the don't cry situation. I allow my kids to feel the feelings even though they're boys and in society boys don't cry. I encourage them to feel those feelings. Like if you feel like you want to cry, you are more than welcome to do so. I like I if you feel like that's what you need to release. Okay, my son. Rhonda: Mm-hmm. Victoria: He wanted a punching bag for Christmas. I got him a punching bag, not specifically because he was angry, because I made sure to ask questions, because I'm like, a punching bag? Like, ⁓ what's going on? And he was just like, no, because I just want to release some steam sometimes, and I just want to be a little bit more active. And I'm like, OK, cool. Like, any way that I can get you to express yourself, I would like for you to do so. My parents made sure to keep me and my brother very busy. Rhonda: Hahaha Right. Victoria: So I was in dance, I played basketball, I played softball. They did everything and because they pretty much came from nothing, like my dad is the youngest of 12. My mom is like, don't, she has, every time she mentions like an aunt or an uncle, I'm like, what number is that? Like who is that one? Rhonda: Wow. Wow. Victoria: Yeah, so they both come from like big families and when my dad was growing up they had like a one bedroom house and it was him and all of his brothers and his sisters and he was the youngest so he would have older brothers and sisters who had kids so the kids would be in the house. My mom grew up on a I'm sorry. Rhonda: ⁓ my god. I'm just like, ⁓ my gosh, I can't imagine all that. How many people are there? Yeah. Victoria: Yeah, it's a big old family. It's a big old family. My mom, her mom passed away when she was younger. So I feel like that's another reason why she's so attached to me because she grew up without a mom. She was raised by her aunt and she grew up on a farm. ⁓ So our upbringings were obviously very different. She had chores, she had things she had to do. My dad, you know, had to learn a trade ⁓ because he couldn't really go to school. So there were like different factors and to, you know, why they raised us the way that they did. And I'm grateful for it because I feel like if they were to become, I don't, like a product of their circumstances, who knows where I would be. Would I be in Jamaica? Would I be here? Like, would my dad be have his own business or would he, you know, be doing something else with my, like, what would it just built up such a resilience in them that when they came to the States, they were like, we're going to make a way and we're going to make sure our children have a way and we're going to do it the best way we can. And it was how they were raised. especially with like the punishment style, which kind of, you know, made it to me and stuff. If I could have chose a better punishment, I would rather be grounded. Rhonda: Yeah. Victoria: I wish I could be grounded, because that's another thing, my friends, they were grounded, you know? They were sent to their room, they were, you you can't watch TV. No, I didn't get that. I mean, I couldn't watch TV, but I had, you know, a little bit extra, a little razzle dance. Rhonda: ⁓ huh. A little more on the corporal side. Victoria: Uh-huh. And that's another thing I don't do. I do not touch my children. I refused. I said no. I'm not doing that. Because what is that doing besides causing some sort of trouble? I don't want to put you through what I went through. Rhonda: Yeah. I hear you. Right. Victoria: So. Rhonda: Well, and I think too, ⁓ especially in the field that we work, we hear so many different stories. And I know you can relate in a lot of ways to some of these kids and what they're going through. but, you know, I think too, we need to look at the perspective. The kids are feeling less empowered and all, but these are the quiet kids that don't. Victoria: Mm-hmm. you Rhonda: act out. You know, we go out and I know we've heard some stories of single moms that have come from another country or parents have come from another country and they we've heard some stories where I have been like, ⁓ my God, you are my hero. Because I couldn't imagine. I could not imagine growing up living. Victoria: We're here. Hmm. Right. Rhonda: the life that you did and the girl that had to go to school but she couldn't wear her school uniform until she got to school because it was in the middle of a civil war in their country. To hear that kind of stuff and then to have, and I understand the children not liking the rules and everything but to be Victoria: Right. Rhonda: so angry and so disrespectful and to put themselves in harmful situations or potentially harmful situations just to express, you know, that anger that they have. Victoria: and Rhonda: parents that want to raise them differently than their friends' parents, you know? I think, like, how do you look at, how are you supposed to look at both sides, I guess, to, at that age, to really understand where your parents coming from? Because I know when I was a teenager, I didn't have the capability to really understand where my parents were coming from. Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: And I wasn't being raised any differently really than my friends. But then to think, you know, the cultural difference, I can't have a, I can't sleep over. I can go to the party, but I can't sleep over. Or I can't do this or that because of the way my parents believe. How do you bring that? Because it's a communication, not being able to understand. How do you, how do you think you can? Victoria: Okay. you Mm-hmm. Rhonda: I'm really curious how to, for someone that's teenager to be able to bring that voice that they need to their parent and how that parent, how we can help them understand that difference. Because like you said, even like the emotions, don't cry. Mental health is not a real thing kind of deal. I wonder how we can... Victoria: Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Rhonda: You see what saying? Not articulately or anything. Yes. That's it. Victoria: Try to bridge the gap a little bit, try to find like some, like a common ground. Definitely having conversations, talking. People don't really talk anymore and I feel like parents forget that like you're raising this child, but this child is going to be an adult one day. And you have to at some point, especially if they're a teenager, I feel like they're able to. really talk for themselves and like express themselves. So just have like a listening ear. Listen. Cause you want them to listen to you, obviously, but you, they want to be heard as well. They don't want to feel like they're, you know, they're disregarded or like their opinions and their, feelings don't matter. Cause it matters. It matters a whole lot. Rhonda: Yeah. Yeah, and I think it's Some things that are so normal and natural now were not back in the day of the parents. You I mean, you know, because we work together and you know, I have to ask a lot of times, what do you mean? What is that? I don't understand. I did that today. In fact, what, what is that? You know, you know, I have to do that because I Victoria: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Rhonda: I'm like, I don't get what that is. And I think that's also another thing. Everything has changed so much. it seems like overnight stuff changed. And there's no rule book. I remember going to a seminar years ago and they were talking and some of the words, I'm thinking, have my phone out. Victoria: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ huh. Rhonda: And we were looking up the words because we didn't know what it meant, you know, because it was new and it's like, I don't, I don't get that. And so I think that makes it even harder now because parents want to be, they parent a certain way based on what they know. And you're feeling a certain way as a teenager and the parents just can't understand it. And I think Victoria: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: everything, all the technology, the new movements, the new wording for things, everything has changed and sometimes as a parent you're behind, you know, you know, you know I feel that way because I don't have kids in the home so I'm like Victoria: Perfectly booked. It's hard to keep up. Sometimes I get a little thrown off by what's being said. I'm like, wait, let me pocket that so I can go ask about it later. Because I don't know what that is and I've never heard it before. So yeah, it's definitely changing. There's a lot of things that are changing and we just got to keep up with the times. We'll try to. Rhonda: Aren't you glad you work with me who asks, hey, I'm old. What does that mean? Victoria: Yeah, because then if I don't know it, then you you kind of already got you. got that. Because I'll sit there like and you'll be like, can you explain that to me? And I'm like, yeah, going to because I don't know what it is either. Rhonda: Yep. ⁓ Yeah I think that's a huge problem with these kids trying to be a better you, embrace your strengths and how you feel, but you don't know how to communicate that and who you're trying to communicate it to. They don't understand. I know I've said a couple of times, look, when you talk to your mom, Victoria: Mm-hmm. Rhonda: She supports you, she loves you, but she doesn't understand. So, don't assume that your parent understands. You need to say, please listen to me while I explain. But then on the other side, the parent has to understand that they just, they might not totally get the concept. They might not totally understand it, but this is real and valid and you feel a certain way. Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's what it boils down to, just trying to get on that level. And it may be a little weird and off-putting at first, especially when you're dealing with teenagers. ⁓ But it's going to show that you're trying, and you want to know, and you want to be included, and you want to just be there in case there is a situation that does arise where like... to come to you it's not going to be like I don't know if I can go to my mom about this because... you my dad's gonna react about this. It's like, you kind of already have that rapport so that, you know, things can progress and get better at some point, but you gotta, you gotta talk to your kids, man. You gotta talk to them. Rhonda: Yeah, and the kids got to talk to their parents, you know. It's a two-way street. Yes, and I think it's very hard because kids will say, my parents don't understand. They just don't get it. Well, that's the truth. They don't get it. They don't understand. I would hate to be a kid nowadays. I don't know if I could handle it. Victoria: Yeah, two-way street. Two-way street. Mm-hmm. Very scary. Rhonda: You know, it is, because there's a lot going on. you know, it's funny, I'll talk to my husband and it's like, you know, when I was growing up, you know, lived beachside and we were gone all day. And my mom says she knows where we were, but I don't really believe she knew where we were all day long, because we were gone. We got some miles under us as we were going to the beach, going here, going there, you know, but. Victoria: Uh-huh. Yeah. Rhonda: We didn't have these safety concerns. Victoria: Mm-hmm. Rhonda: that kids need to have now. Because it was going on back then, but it wasn't known. Yeah, it wasn't known that this child was taken. Sex trafficking, labor trafficking, runaways, all this kind of stuff, all the drugs. I'm not saying my generation didn't do them. We just didn't, we weren't open about it. Victoria: in your face. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Rhonda: It wasn't in the news, you know, of these kids dying of overdoses and stuff like that. And the drugs are different now, I think, than back then. And, all these different things that it's just so ⁓ much. I would I know as a parent, you worry more. ⁓ And, and there is that ⁓ background thing, your Victoria: . Mm-hmm. Rhonda: were stricter, but they probably had more awareness than some people. know, just their culture, those hold my children tight, you know? And then can you imagine now if they came from Jamaica and they hear all this stuff at this point in time when you were, you would have been like never able to leave. Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. been Rapunzel locked up in a tower. Just never to go. Rhonda: Yeah. Yeah, because it's scary. it's just, I think there needs to be ⁓ a way ⁓ teenagers, you to ⁓ be able express themselves and like you're saying, advocate for themselves a little bit more and see their strengths ⁓ and ⁓ their But ⁓ look behind Where does your strength come from? Your strength comes from ⁓ your parents, they're teaching you. Victoria: Very scary. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: your culture, you know, and that's something amazing to be able to identify with your culture. And like you're saying, look back at how your parents, how resilient they are. You know, if it wasn't for that, you wouldn't be in this situation that you're in now. You know, you wouldn't have the opportunities and everything if your parents weren't the way they are. Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Mm-hmm. I go hard to believe it. Yes, very hard. I just felt like life is unfair. They're being unfair. Why won't they let me? I can't stand this. You guys suck. Like, everything, everything. I was upset. You know, I wasn't... It just didn't sit right with me. Like, why couldn't I? You know? And like you said, now... Rhonda: But as a teenager, it's hard to see, Right. Victoria: I don't know where I would be if my parents weren't the way they were with me. Like, I don't know if I would have the job that I have now or if I would have my house or if I would even have my kid. Like, I don't know where I would be in my life if they didn't, you know, have me like this. And it sucked for a time being. It sucked, but I made it through it. And I've learned things about myself and... Rhonda: Yeah. Victoria: It's, you know, made me, I'm a pretty cool mom now because of it, because I feel like, you know, I'm not going to put my kids through that. I want you guys to have a good experience. I don't want your teenage years to be like, you know, my mom never really let me and, you know, I wasn't really allowed to experience things and like do stuff and go places. Like I want you to have that teenage experience. Just be safe about it. Number one. is to be safe about it. ⁓ But I do still find that I am like my mom in some ways. So like my oldest, he likes to go to the mall with his friends. I'm tracking him. Rhonda: Yeah. Yeah. Victoria: I'm like, okay, so what time do I need to be here? Okay, you're gonna be ready at three, I'll be here at 2.50 in the parking lot. Like I definitely don't play with them when it comes to that part, because I'm, know, those are my babies. But I don't want them to feel constricted and restrained. we can't, I'm afraid to ask my mom to go, because I know she's gonna say no. Like I don't want that for them. Rhonda: ⁓ I wish kids could see it. I didn't see it back then. Looking back, I can see it. And you'll hear me, I know you've heard me say this a bunch of times with some of the kids that we see. The reason your parents give you chores is to teach you self-sufficiency, how to take care and be an adult and be responsible. The reason you're not allowed Victoria: ever. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: do this is because they're worried about this, you know. And you've heard me say to parents, when you say no, if they ask you why, let them know why. Let them know why you're saying no. Because you're teaching. I mean, of course, there's always the because I said so, but you know, sometimes it's good to go into well, you can't go to this party because Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: of this reason, this reason, and this reason. And maybe nobody agrees with what anybody's saying, but it's something to think about. It's something to have a discussion about. And then it goes back to, well, maybe like your parents growing up in Jamaica, maybe they weren't allowed to do this or that because of this reason. So that carries on to you as a child, as a teenager saying, I want to do this. And they say, Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: Well, why did they say no? Well, this is their reasoning. Does that reasoning 100 % apply to where you're at now? Maybe not, but it's something at least you have a starting point of a conversation at some point and say, hey, can we, can you look it up from my perspective? Can I look it up from your perspective? Can we come to something so that everybody feels good? Cause it's not good as a parent when your kids. Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: just are mad at you. That's not a good feeling. I mean, even though you know as a parent, you are doing the right thing, you feel it, you're doing the right thing. You're not intentionally harming your child. You feel like you're protecting them. But maybe you are a little overzealous. I mean, when my daughters were teenagers, poor them, I happened to work as a victim advocate with sexual assault. So I heard stuff all the time. Victoria: Mm hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. you ⁓ Rhonda: So everything I heard was applied to them because my mom radar was like, no, no, no. And they would have to say, mom, I'm not your client. Victoria: Mm-hmm. Boop boop boop boop! ⁓ huh. Rhonda: mom, you know, and I had to realize that maybe I was putting some stuff onto them that I was like, wow, I'm, scared. You know, I heard this story today and I feel so awful for this person. And, you know, and I think that as a parent, you want to protect your kids as much as possible. And you use what you know from being a kid and how you grew up and you Victoria: Thank you. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: Of course, apply it to the situation with your child. But I think there has to be, I know, do you think there should be some type of way to overcome a little bit and come to a happy medium, even if people don't like the compromise? Victoria: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Like you said about, you know, when you're asking for something and it's just a flat out no. I didn't understand. I was never given a reasoning why. I found out years later the reasoning why. But at that moment it's like you're just saying no, but like why not? And God forbid if I ask why. Like don't question me. I already said no and the answer is no and no means no. And I'm like, okay, but why? Rhonda: Right. Yeah. Victoria: Why can't Rhonda: Why? Why do you hate me, Mom? Why do you hate me? Victoria: Exactly why is like why this is unfair mom? This is so unfair like Yeah, yeah. Rhonda: It shadows the parent in such a somewhat bad context to the child. And the parent has every right to say yes or no. And the child should just go with that because they are the child, that is the parent. It's just the way it is. But I think that some kids get so upset about it because it's flat out. They don't care about me, they don't like me, they don't want me to do anything. Victoria: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Rhonda: They want to control everything I do. And yes, parents do pretty much want to control you because they want to keep you safe. But there's that happy medium where you need to start understanding why it's snow. Because I think a lot of times, if the reasoning why that's snow, doesn't it just change your whole view on things? Victoria: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's kind of like a, okay. Well, when you put it like that, it does, you know, make sense, you know? ⁓ Rhonda: Yeah. Victoria: But yeah, no, we just need to, I think that parents forget that they have little people and they got brains and their brains work. And they're constantly thinking and moving and trying to figure things out. We're there to help guide them and try to make sure that they're gonna go the right path. But they're gonna be bumps along the way. can't be there to stop every bump and every scrape and every uh-oh and boo-boo. Rhonda: Yeah. right. Victoria: You can try to prevent a lot of them if you can, but it's gonna happen. You just have to be like, okay, now what do we learn? What did we learn from that? Rhonda: And that's where the becoming unapologetic comes into it because you tell someone how you feel, you shouldn't have to apologize for telling someone how you feel. And you should be able to listen to someone else how they feel and they shouldn't have to apologize to that either because how you feel is valid. How you see things, everyone... Victoria: Mm-hmm. Rhonda: You and I, that's why I check in with you whenever we go someplace. What did you see? What are your thoughts about this? Usually, we pretty much align for the most part on our perspectives of things. But when we have a difference in perspective, it's very valid because you're seeing something I didn't. You appreciate something about the situation that I just, it just whew, right over my head, you know? And... Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: That's the thing is you don't have to agree with someone. It's their perspective. So it's valid. But being able to listen to someone else of what they're seeing and why they're saying this and why they're feeling that. That's where that empowerment comes in. And that's where you create that strong individual or you create that strong bond between parent and child because they're able to actually communicate. Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: and talk to each other and you know, regardless of how well you communicate, it still falls back to teenager listens to parent. You know, but if there could be a better understanding for that, well that would be good sometimes I think. Victoria: That would be great. And I think teenagers forget that their parents were teenagers too. Like we've all been through something and maybe the conversation could be had like, hey, if you feel like your parent is being a little unfair with you, just be like, how was it growing up for you? How was your life as a teenager? Just so I can like get an understanding as into why this is now with Rhonda: right. Victoria: Because I guarantee if they're sitting there telling you like I wasn't allowed to do X, Y, Z, that's why you're not allowed to do X, Z, you guys can be able to have a conversation on why you should be able to do at least Y or Z. Rhonda: ⁓ Yeah, think kids forget that their parents actually had lives prior to them and had parents themselves that governed their lives for the most part. And then as parents, you sometimes forget what it was like to be a kid because you're trying so hard to protect your kids, do right by your kids, you know? Victoria: Mm-hmm. you Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: For a parent to say no, you can't do that. I think everyone should be grateful that their parent does that because at least that parent cares. Cares enough to say no, but why? Victoria: Mm-hmm. Yep, yep, because they're, and I've known some kids growing up and they were able to do a lot more than I was ever able to do. And ⁓ some of them turned out pretty good, some of them not so great. So mean everybody's story is different and everybody's life path is different and it all pertains on, like falls back onto the person and how they navigate their life. Rhonda: Mm-hmm. Victoria: ⁓ but I don't know. It's just like. And do I wish I could have had a little bit more freedom? Yeah. That would've been great. That would've been fantastic. I would've loved to have some freedom. But I'm like, where would that freedom have taken me? Rhonda: Right. Victoria: Where would I have gone if my mom wasn't on me about don't go past the stop sign, don't go riding into the woods, don't go to the next street over. What was her intuition telling her to make me not or have me not venture out and do stuff? Because I feel like she sees things and she knows things, but she tries to tell me she doesn't. Because I'm like, Why? ⁓ Rhonda: Yeah, I get that. I get that. And I think it's a good perspective that you have and how you see things now from when you were a teenager to be able to look back and see that perspective and be so empowered by it. Because I mean, you are not a quiet, worried about yourself, you know, like you're not enough kind of person. Victoria: What? Rhonda: you're vivacious and you're just, you're amazing. You know, that's why we have fun together and we're able to do the things we are, you know, and because you have overcome that feeling that you had when you were a teenager, that you were so different. And, you know, you bring, you bring that into what you do and who you are now. And Victoria: Nah. Haha! Hey, Dioro! So much fun! Mm-hmm. Yep. Rhonda: That's what it would be nice to see everybody be able to do. Victoria: Because I don't know if I'd be able to have a career like this if I wasn't the way that I am. It would be very difficult to try to be there for someone and uplift someone if I'm crummy about myself or if I'm not feeling sure about myself. It wouldn't do any good for anybody. So I try to... Rhonda: Right. Victoria: always feel good and whenever you know we go see our friends and stuff I try to make sure they feel good too because why not? Why not? Like why not? You're amazing, you're talented, you're funny, you're all of these things and even though right now in this moment of time you might feel like you're like this little teeny tiny little thing you're so much more than that. Rhonda: ⁓ you definitely do. definitely do. Yes. Yes. It's always a good time. Right, right. Victoria: so much more and it's gonna bloom and it's gonna blossom and it's gonna grow and you're gonna look back at this time and be like I did that I did that and I made it. Rhonda: You're going to be able to validate yourself. Victoria: Mm-hmm. Like me. Rhonda: Absolutely. So that's what becoming unapologetic is all about, is being able to learn about yourself, recognize your strengths, and become a better you because it's already there. You just need to acknowledge it and work on that part. And that's what we're trying to do with this ⁓ podcast, is get people to realize. Victoria: Okay. Yes. Rhonda: even though there's some differences and maybe your parents are different than your friends' parents in the way they do things or you feel different about yourself, you you are perfect the way you are and what you're learning from your parents, you might not like it now but embrace it because it will form you into who you are today as a strength, as a strength that you can embrace. And so it's always fun to learn new things and see new perspectives. Victoria: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Rhonda: So ⁓ I'm sure Vicki and I will be talking about something interesting again because we have numerous things that we can talk about. ⁓ I know Bridget was on my last one and so we'll probably drag her into it too because we love that. But if have any questions or comments ⁓ or want ⁓ to on and about a different perspective, Victoria: That might be fun. Rhonda: You can ⁓ go to the website ⁓ www.u-2-0.net and send us an email and we'll be happy to discuss it. But it's all about becoming a better you, you 2.0 and becoming unapologetic is all about that. So thank you so much, Vicki. It was fun as always. And ⁓ yes. Victoria: So much fun! Rhonda: So thank you and we will see you next time. Victoria: Okie dokie.