justice for: We have received so many messages from our jury members about the case that we're gonna discuss today. I remember seeing articles come back come out back in June when everything first happened and we were gonna put it into a WTF but then as I was writing it a new article came out and then another came out and then another. There was no way we were gonna be able to just mention this and then just come back to it later. So I have compiled every bit of reliable information that has been released as of Friday, September 25th of 2026. Okay, I had to put this date in here so you all know because shit's gonna keep coming out. Just like with the Ciders episodes when y'all would be like, but there's new information. I understand. This is why it's hard doing breaking news, breaking news developing cases, because we can't get in here every other day or every single weekend. And it's hard. So we give you what we can and then we'll we add more as we go. We'll catch up eventually. We will. Yeah. So I need you to. Buckle up right now. It's a double buckle kind of day. And now, let's talk about the possible Philadelphia serial killer. Welcome back to another episode of Justice Four. We are your host. I'm Jackie. And I'm Sam. I'm I've been waiting so impatiently for her to do this because when she told me she was gonna cover it, I immediately ignored every single thing. And it wasn't really until this past week or two That it has been almost impossible. Because I mean, even my favorite podcasts I listen to are starting to cover this, and I've managed to stay away from those episodes. I've managed not read articles. I do know a fuzzy outline of this that I have already run down with Sam for what I already know. And I'm so excited to learn the details and more of this because I'm excited to tell you because some of your fuzzy outline is not correct. Perfect. And see, that's also what's important is because sometimes these cases come out and because the information is slow to roll out, there's a lot of speculation and a lot of misinformation that gets put out there. I mean, we've learned a lot about that with Lindsay Clancy and the Ciders case, especially. But I'm glad that I have details wrong because that's why we do this. Yes, there's people who have a true crime feed all the time, twenty four seven, and they have that updated information all the time. But there's a lot of you who don't. Yeah. And so like this was a nice little catch up to get y everybody on the same level as this case unfolds cause it's gonna unfold and you need this base info. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With that, sh this is a good segue actually. Please remember that like I said, this happened back in June. So just a few months ago. So a lot of the information that's coming out is wrong, is taken as speculation. Things like that, the police are holding a lot of information close to their chest just because it's so new. And once you get it once we get into this and you hear Didn't we like just have the first major press conference the other day for this? Yes. Like the first major press conference that like confirmed a lot and put a lot of light on the speculations stuff. Well, and because it happened in June and there's so much still coming out, like things that came out back in June, July are completely different than what they like now. Than what they were then. So just take things with a grain of salt. Like if I say something and it's wrong, which at this point it could be. Like I But reporting has to start somewhere and that's why we can update and do things like that. But yes. And then along those lines, I need you to go follow all of our socials right now. Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Spotify, Apple. All of them everywhere. Literally everywhere. Just go to our website. All of them are down at the bottom. Click on all of them and hit follow and subscribe. And it's free. And honestly, sometimes it's a lot easier for us to throw updates on there than it is to get into the studio and record you an update. Mm-hmm. And so sometimes you'll just get like we'll always put a picture of the case with it and then we'll just give you a whole little breakdown of something new that's happened. Or we'll link out to videos of News Nation or Court TV or Lawn Crime, which I think is the same thing now, Court TV and Law and Crime. But we always link out to them if they have something and a really good coverage on it for you guys to watch. So pay attention for that. Also on all of our socials you can find the link to our live show, which is gonna be on October thirtieth. It is at Painting with a Twist. We are making candles and we have a fun little surprise for you guys. Yes, we do have fun surprises for you guys. there's gonna be a costume contest. So please make sure that you wear a costume. It's gonna be fun. We already picked out our costumes. I'm pumped. my gosh, so excited. I don't know if I'm more excited about our costume or Steve's costume. both, yeah. But yeah. If you get you guys know who Steve is if you know us. It's our skeleton that hangs around us all the time. So yeah, we can't wait to see everybody there. Painting with a twist, powers and constitution. seven PM. We'll do some candle making. I have a great episode for you guys. And yeah, we're really excited for another live. Absolutely. so we're gonna get into this. However, I need to give you another trigger warning. Of course. Just because I do discuss something a little bit more in detail that might be really triggering to a lot of people, I'll tell you when it comes up. But just listen and watch at your discretion. Okay? Just be prepared for it 'cause this is a lot. On the morning of June 19th, 2026, a US park police ranger was patrolling around Independence National Historic Park in Philadelphia. And he noticed a black BMW parked near the federal courthouse at 6th and Market Streets. The car was parked where it shouldn't have been, near Fire Hydrant actually. And when the ranger approached it, he found a man behind the wheel and a woman inside of the car with him. And he said that something fell immediately off. As the Ranger approached the BMW, he reportedly heard the woman say to the driver, quote, You're going to hurt me, end quote. The Ranger also suspected that the two might be using drugs, so what started as a pretty ordinary encounter quickly became something way more serious. Authorities ended up searching the BMW and found two illegal handguns and roughly eight thousand dollars worth of drugs and a fake DEA badge bearing the man's photograph, the driver of man. Uh-huh. Yeah. So then they're like, okay, well, let's figure out who the hell this woman is. And she provided an ID with the name of Blair Tunzelli. There was one problem with that though. The woman sitting in that BMW was not Blair Tanzelli. Blair Tanzelli had actually been reported in Phil or been reported missing in Philadelphia in 2023. Okay. Mm-hmm. So now, this wasn't simply a guy caught with drugs, guns, and a fake DEA badge. I mean, we we've already have a couple felonies. Girl, you got no idea. Police also now have a w has a woman sitting next to him using the identity of someone who's been missing for three years. And according to investigators, information that came out during questioning of this woman turned this case completely upside down. So like How did he not know that it wasn't the woman on the ID? Did they look very ID? I know they the ID and she's missing. They look completely different. Okay. I was about to be like, but I mean, as a cop, I'd be like, shit, I just found a missing person. Mm-hmm. But looks completely different. Like not even like close to Yes. Like, not even with drug use and weight loss could we look like this person? Precise. Gotcha. So everything that came out during questioning completely turned this case upside down. But I'm gonna touch back on that later. Now, I did hear something about a DEA badge. I forgot to bring that up in my rough blurry outline until you said that, and I remember. But yeah, I do remember something about there being a fake DEA badge. But outside of a federal courthouse, my dude. I know. Really, we're gonna be I mean, it does make your story a little more believable, but I've also seen a picture of him, so. Mm-hmm. This Is eventually what sent investigators to four seventeen West Chu Avenue, a row home in Philadelphia's Olnay neighborhood. I'm really sorry if I said that wrong. It's O L N E Y. Olnay? Olnay. Okay. Neighborhood. You know the them East Coasters though, they pronounce things really weird. Yeah. Sorry. I'm and we're one to talk with Castle Poudre and Tejon and you went to Manatechio. Yeah, that one's not hard. A I dated a guy from Wisconsin once and called it Manatois. Also Wisconsin. Problem. Wakasaw, Waukesaw. Wakusha, Wakusha, Wiki Yeah, dang. Yeah. So now this is where I want you to forget about those people who I was just talking to you about. Because we're gonna come back to them later. Just forget about it. Mm-hmm. But the police obtained a warrant and searched the property at West Chu Avenue later that day, that same day. And almost immediately, this case blew the fuck up. Inside of the house, investigators found another illegal gun and gun parts. They found a marijuana growing operation. That authorities valued to be more than $280,000. They found another set of fake federal credentials, and this time it was an FBI badge. Okay. And they found five urns containing what appear to be cremated human remains. This is just like it's just crazy, like this cop's day. Yeah. I'm just gonna go see what this car's doing. shit. Yeah. Like could you imagine if that cop was like, nah, I'm almost done today. I'm not going over there. Yeah. This is really funny. So now imagine being the investigator standing in this home. This is my next line. You got here because a woman was caught carrying the identification of someone who's been missing since twenty twenty three. You already know the person connected to the property was allegedly carrying a fake DEA badge, drugs and illegal guns. And now you're standing inside of his home looking at five containers that appear to hold human remains. That doesn't that doesn't mean the people in those urns were murdered. I want to show I mean they could be the keepers of like Auntie Virginia, yeah, Auntie Phyllis, Uncle Dennis. I don't know. It could be grandma. It could be great great grandma Susie. We don't know. Could be a dog. It could be the five family dogs. Could. You know, I'm not here to assume. Yeah. And it also doesn't mean that it has anything to do with Blair. Also, I want you to remember Blair because she is brought up. Frequently, like at least later, so it is a big piece in this. Yeah. At this point though, police have no idea what they're looking at. But it was enough to s for someone to essentially say, we need to keep digging. At this point, they just look like bigger time drug dealers who have a soft place in their heart for their dead family members. Precisely. The actual DEA contacted the Philadelphia homicide investigators and the disappearance of Blair suddenly became much, much larger. Yeah. Because of the house itself. Detectives began interviewing people, going back through Blair's disappearance, and following up on the identification documents recovered from the property. And within days, the police were back at four seventeen West Chu Avenue with another search warrant. This time, the search was much more extensive. Homicide detectives were there. Okay. Crime scene investigators were there. ATF was there. if you don't know ATF. I don't know why ATF wasn't there from the beginning, but okay. I know. ATF is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, if you don't know what that's. I know why how ATF wasn't there between the drugs found in the car, the amount of marijuana found in the house. Well the DEA was. yeah. But like the DEA was probably like, This is ours, thank you. And the ATF was like not today. They Also called a bomb squad in. Yeah, at this point I would too 'cause weren't they ghost guns? I'm honestly not sure. I thought that I heard somewhere that they were and I honestly I might be mixing this up with another case 'cause it was in like one of those episodes where like we cover a few different breaking cases that I listened to. about they were like ghost guns, so three D printed parts or pots. Part spot offline to make your own guns. I feel like I heard that, but I also could just be mixing that up with something else that I was listening to in that same episode. I have no idea. I didn't read anything about that. Okay. But I could have just missed it. There's so many fucking articles about this. I have no idea. But they did bring in the bomb squad because investigators didn't know exactly what the hell they were dealing with inside of this property. And then they went into the basement. I don't know why we avoided the basement for so long. I that's the first place I would have gone. I would have been like, psh, nothing up here is of interest to me. Thank you. And what they found down there was some kind of homemade laboratory. There were more than twenty containers holding unknown substances, including chemicals investigators described as corrosive or toxic. There were l water lines running through the basement, hoses and piping. And connected to some of that equipment was a fifty-five gallon drum. So you know those like blue on you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, like Jeffrey Dahmer kept in side of his room. Yeah. but hold on. I know that we have like a lab down here, but we also have eight thousand dollars worth of drugs, so obviously we're making something. But two, we also have a whole bunch of marijuana. Yeah, we have girls. So like all the water lines and all that, we're probably in hydroponics, making this a lot easier on ourselves. And we have grow lamps. And then of course I'm gonna assume we're probably making Myth. Well, I was gonna say something that YouTube wouldn't block, so Crystal. They're probably friends with Crystal in the basement. Maybe. I'm probably doing some folding couch motions. I don't know. So I can tell you now, based off of what I know, there was a lot of addiction surrounding this place. I can also tell you I did not find a single single article about any harder drugs in the home. Or setup of creation of harder drugs. so are we not using this lab for drugs? Word. My that was my other thought, but I was gonna go ahead and not have that thought. So I shook my head, but I don't actually know. Well, because I'll talk about it later. I'll talk about it later. Nobody knew what this setup was being used for. Investigators collected the substances and eventually sent more than twenty containers to a specialized laboratory in Chicago for testing. They brought in the FBI evidence recovery team from Quattico to help process the property. so before I move on further, I have not seen anything about it being a drug lab. But things are still being tested. Are we more like embalming and shit? A cadaver dog was brought in to search the home and the surrounding grounds. And then weeks later, I'm jumping ahead, I will come back, investigators will come back yet again and excavate portions of the property and physically remove sections of the sewer line so they could examine what was passing through it. But before any of that happened, investigators found something else during those early searches. Electronics. A lot of electronics. Computers, hardwares, thumb drives, storage devices, more than fifty pieces of electronic evidence was removed from the home, and investigators had no idea just how much information was sitting on them. When forensic investigators finally started processing everything, the numbers were staggering. More than six hundred thousand photographs, around seven so sorry, around seventy thousand videos. And that was only the initial count. As the investigation expanded, police would eventually say they are dealing with more than one million photographs and videos recovered in connection with the property. Which is wild. That's it is terrific. And I love the fact that we have like an a number count of like over a million because like if you look at like Josh Duggar, we got terabytes. Like they would tell us how many terabytes of data. Yeah. I wanna know what one million photos and images translates into in terabytes. I think that also depends on how large these files are, how large the video files are and things. But like this was the first time I haven't heard it used in terms of terabytes to describe how much it is. Mm-hmm. Having a million files isn't necessarily evidence of a crime, but when investigators started looking through them, it became immediately apparent. That some of this material was very disturbing. The photographs and videos were women. Some were sexual, some involved bondage, some involved violence. There were some women who appeared unconscious, and then there was some women who appeared dead. The investigators quickly realized, though, that at least some of what they were seeing had actually been staged. So now the job in front of these detectives. You have hundreds of thousands, millions, of photographs of people you don't know, some depicting extremely disturbing things, which I will get into. But you can't just look at an image and decide you're looking at a murder victim. You have to identify the person. You have to determine where the photograph was taken and you have to figure out where the s if like whether the scene was real or whether someone involved walk away w my god. Someone who was involved walked away perfectly fine. Which is crazy, like To have that many like I feel like that's what makes this harder because not only do you have all this imaging and video of all of this horrific stuff, you have to figure out w what's consensual and what's not, what's okay and what's not okay, and how do you determine that without being in the room? I mean from a video it's a lot easier, but from a still photograph. Mm-hmm. So they began going through the hard drives one by one and On one of the first hard drives they examined, homicide detectives found photographs and video of two women who appeared to be dead. So they tried to identify them, and they did. They were two women who had been reported missing years earlier. And suddenly everything investigators had already found inside. of this West Shoe Avenue house looked completely different. So now we're up to three people with ties to this house that they know have been missing for years. Correct. And this is where we finally need to talk about whose house this was and the two men who had been living inside of it. I've been waiting. Yes, I said two men. The man police arrested back near Independence Hall was Eugene Horsch. He is 44 years old, and 417 West Chu Avenue was his home. So initially, Eugene was obviously the person investigators wanted to look at. He was the one sitting in the BMW with the woman carrying Blair's ID. He's the one police say had the drugs, the illegal guns, and the fake DEA and FBI credentials. And when investigators searched the house, That was connected to him. They found everything that I just told you about. So if you're if you've been following the story as it unfolds, you're probably thinking the same thing that everyone else was, like, okay, what the fuck is Eugene actually doing in this house? Like what the fuck is happening? And what does he do outside of this house? And who is our other person? Yeah. But when investigators started looking at some of the material that had been created, that's when another name started coming up more and more and got way more important. Raymond Charles Horsch, who goes by R. C. R. C. is Eugene's father. And he lived at the West Shoe Avenue house for years. By the time police searched the property in June of 2026, he wasn't there. He had actually died a year the year before, so in May of 2025, due to COPD, which is a chronic lung disease, and he was 82 years old. If you happen to be watching our YouTube video, there's a picture of him that terrifies me. That is probably up right now. It just makes me chuckle a little bit. It It's so weird. I was not when I first saw the picture, I was like, no, there's no way. And then I kept looking at my no, that's definitely him. It just reminds me of one of the tough cartoon characters in Shrek. And like the tough bar where he's playing the piano. That's what it reminds me of when I look at it. Doesn't I kind of that's all I see is like a cartoon character and like a rough bar in a Disney movie, like err. I'm sorry. You're good. But this also means police are searching a house filled with not only Eugene's belongings, but with an enormous amount of material left behind by a man who can no longer answer questions. Which fucking sucks. And once investigators started learning a little bit more about R C, some of what they had found in the house started to begin to make a little bit more sense. And not necessarily in a comforting way. RC was So hold on question. the DEA credentials that were found in the car had Eugene's picture on But what about the FBI credentials found in the house? Was that also Eugene's credentials? Okay. Gotcha. Yes. So RC was a photographer and filmmaker. Okay. He photographed women, made adult films, and produced material that could get extremely dark. Some of his work involved bondage, violence, women appearing unconscious, and even scenes involving death. Right on. Okay. So there's an explanation for Some of the material. Yeah. But that also means if detectives open a file and see a woman tied to a bed, that doesn't mean it was a crime. Well That they know it like if they see someone lying motionless and appearing dead, they can't automatically assume that the woman actually died. Because of his other work, yeah. RC created martial material where Was he doing this in a professional way or in a like a weird, creepy, like keep these photos to myself way? Like at some point in his life was he a professional photographer and filmmaker doing this professionally with other people around. He was also in art exhibits, which I will get into momentarily. Okay. That's that's what I was mm-hmm. Because millennial girls, we've all met a creepy Yes older photographer male at some point in our college years who was like this. Yeah. And yeah, so I'm like we we all know this guy. And so I wanna see if like he was that guy on like a actual level or this was a creepy like bedroom project over here. And honestly, I genuinely feel like that information alone is gonna make has made the investigators' jobs harder. Yes. Because now they're not simply just searching through a collection of disturbing photos for evidence. Like they're searching through a collection where fiction and reality look identical. This is the only like this is like the one like detail I actually know about this because I think it's really cool. So they have had to make an entirely new FBI team just to handle the pictures and they have I think it's like four to six people that their entire job for like ten hours a day is to sit there and go through photos and videos and be like, that's an emoji. that's a screenshot of a text message. let's put this over here to look at. this looks like this one. So like there's just four to six people and this is their whole job. And I feel so bad for them because people who have the jobs to look through photos like this, it is extremely hard on them and I just hope that their pillow is cold every single night when they flip it over and they have the best fuzzy socks and bath at home every single night. Because it's a very hard job and we appreciate them. But I just thought that that fact was really cool that like that's how big this is. Mm-hmm. It like Yeah. We had he we had to make a whole new team. Yes, I did. Philadelphia police have said exactly that of how taxing this has been. Some of what they've reviewed appears to be play acting, and some of the people actually have been identified in those scenes. They've been located by investigators and have been found alive and well. And I will touch on that number later. Unfortunately, some of the women in these photos have not been found alive and well. I told you earlier about two women who they believe were deceased. Those first two women investigators identified as Gabrielle Emerondo and Mirabel Friesis. Gabrielle has been missing since twenty twelve and Maribel had been missing since twenty eighteen. Wow, that's long time. That's a long time. Long time. Investigators say the recovered material appears to show both women alive and in later images or video appeared to be deceased. I also need to point out that neither woman's remains have been recovered. Yeah. At this time. As investigators keep going, they realize Gabrielle and Mirabel weren't the only missing women connected to this house. Eventually, they would identify seven of them, and I do come back to discussing them. Don't worry. I'm going to come back to each of them individually because they deserve to be more than names on a list. But first, we need to understand what investigators were dealing with inside of this house. Okay? And that's gonna bring us right back to something I purposely have not really expanded further on, which was the basement. Yeah. Remember during those first invest searches, investigators found more than 20 containers holding unknown substances. Yeah. all of the water lines piping, the 55 gallon drum. At the time they didn't know what the fuck they were looking at and what it was used for. So there was something else investigators had recovered from the property that I have not told you about yet. Arcee liked to write. He wrote extensively. He actually had a couple of published books that were for sale on Amazon, and they have since actually been removed since all of this happened. Books about what? Are we a poet? Girl, police recovered thousands of pages, more than ten thousand pages, of manuscripts, drawings, and other writing materi written material from the house, and some of it dealt with murder, serial killers, and the disposal of human remains. In some of his own writing, RC described using a chemical process to break down a body. That process sounded similar to alkyline hydrolysis, sometimes referred to as water or wet cremation, which uses water, heat, and alkyline chemicals to break down the biological tissue. Now, if this were almost anybody else, you'd hear that and think, Well, there it is. Why are we still asking questions? He's fucking guilty. But this is where R. C. Horsch becomes more of a fucking nightmare. This man was a published fiction writer. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. He also made violent films. Hey, listen, if the lady who killed her husband and then wrote a book about the perfect way to kill your husband can still get convicted for the murder, I think we have some traction. We can get something done here. He's dead, I know that. But we can get some post humans. and we got the sun. But like just because you write a fiction book doesn't mean that you can't do it. True. That is very true. So he made violent films, stage death scenes, exaggerated fucking constantly. He apparently just really liked shocking people. Yeah. So finding a story in which RC writes about killing someone and disposing of their body chemically is disturbing as hell, especially when you're standing next to a chemical setup in his fucking basement. But it still isn't the same as proving he actually did it. I mean, it's like I tell people all the time. Mm-hmm. And it's my f it this is my best example in the salon. I was like, if you were to walk in here right now and I'm standing over top of my boss and I'm covered in blood and she's dead. That doesn't mean I did it. It just means I mean, did you see me do it? Were you in here when it happened? The only proof you have is that I'm standing over top of her covered in her blood. I could have found her this way. I could have tried to help her. Doesn't mean that I did it. You still have to prove that I did it. Alright, Legally Blonde, I need you calm down. But I'm just saying, like that's the easiest way to explain it. Is that like just because somebody is standing over top of somebody with a murder weapon covered in their blood doesn't mean they did it. You still have to figure out if they actually did it. I know. They literally did that on Legally Blonde. I know, but I'm just saying. So police needed something physical to connect all of those words to a real person. So they went looking for it. Investigators returned back to the West Chu Avenue house with additional s search warrants. And this time they weren't just searching rooms and collecting hard drives. They started looking at the actual infrastructure of the house. They examined the plumbing to be exact. They brought equipment in to look underground. Eventually crews excavated around the property and removed sections of sewer pipe so investigators could examine what might have traveled through the drainage system. Okay. And if you're wondering why, police would literally dig up sewer lines around the house, this is why. If someone had used a chemical process to break down human tissue and then dispose of the resulting material through the plumbing, investigators wanted to know whether any biological Anything biological had been left behind. Which I think is smart. Yeah. according to law enforcement sources, the search of those pipes didn't turn into anything substantial, although police haven't publicly released detailed forensic results from them. Yes. Remember how I mentioned earlier that investigators also brought cadaver dogs onto the property? Yes. That was in July to search for any indication that human remains were at the property. At the same time, law enforcement sources reported that investigators had found what appeared to be a significant amount of blood inside of the house. I'm gonna assume in the basement. But forensic testing later determined it wasn't blood at all. Uh-huh. I know. I know. They were testing samples from the property, the blood that's not blood. Yeah. It also did not identify any DNA belonging to Blair or Amy McHale and the cadaver dog searches didn't lead to the recovery of any of the missing women. Did the cadaver dogs hit anywhere in the house? So despite the cadaver dogs, the excavation, the sewer pipes, and the forensic testing, investigators still have not recovered any of the missing women. And as of this week, this week last week As of last week, y'all, since you're hearing this now, law enforcement s sources say they haven't found any biological evidence confirming that a homicide incurred inside of the house. they have not released anything regarding the cadaver dogs, by the way. It's just so interesting. Yeah. so I also don't know the exact science behind cadaver dogs. Like how long does like a body have to be dead before a smell will hit for them? Like Because it just depends on how long they would have been dead in the house. If they were like instantly dead and then he went downstairs and did the thing, we wouldn't really have that much of a decomp smell. Like I don't know how long it takes for a scent after you die for cadaver dogs to pick that up. I've never googled that. Well the other thing is, like, these women have been missing since twenty twelve, twenty eighteen. Also I mentioned a name, Amy. I will get back to her, I promise you. so like it's been thirteen Years for one, eight years for the other, like there's only but we have so many after. Like I'm not just specifically talking them, but I'm just saying like Yeah. If it if your body has to start going through the decomp process in order for a cadaver dog to hit, or you at least have to be like a few hours. I don't think Yeah, but that's what I mean. Like how quickly like if they were Yeah. If they were killing anyone in the house, how quickly yeah were they putting this process through because I'm like there's no way that you could have been doing this this much without and let you know what I mean? 'Cause I don't know the science of how long it takes. Do y'all know the science behind that? Please let us know because we're very interested in that. as of right now, police are preparing for another more extensive search of the four seventeen West Chu house. I don't know why they just haven't moved in yet. Jesus, I know. but they are still testing and waiting for the chemicals recovered that were sent to show. That's gonna give a very large piece of this puzzle. Yes. But also I feel like this leaves us with a big, like enormous question like hanging over that basement. If these women were in this house, which it seems like they were, where the fuck did they go and did they die there? If not, where the fuck are they? Also this is this shit's fucking crazy though. I need you to buckle up again. You too. I don't know how many more buckles I can do. I'll do the mind eraser. Do a roller coaster harness, please. Investigators recently learned that RC's fascination with death did not stay inside of his own basement. Years earlier he had access to an actual crematorium. What? Let me explain this one a little bit more and a little bit more carefully, 'cause my immediate reaction was basically hers I beg your finest pardon Uh-huh. The crematorium was in Philadelphia's Kensington neighborhood and was connected to the Garzone funeral home. According to a report by the Philadelphia Inquirer, people familiar with that period of RC's life and a law enforcement source say RC gained access to the facility by giving an employee drugs and cash so he could Photograph and film human remains. And somehow that's not even the strangest part of the story surrounding this place. The Garzone operation was eventually shut down after authorities uncovered an illegal body parts scheme. The people running it pled guilty in two thousand eight after more than two hundred and forty corpses were supplied to a biomedical tissue company with the Where bones, tendons, and other tissue were illegally removed and sold for medical use. However, RC was never charged in connection with that scandal. Wow. Uh-huh. But investigators are now looking into his access to that crematorium because they're trying to reconstruct every place he could have encountered, photographed, and potentially disposed of human remains. Well, let me tell you something. I was trying to figure out how those urns could become suspicious in his house, and I think I just figured out how because I was like, Well, in order to cremate them, he would have had to like been responsible for them and like death certificates like all this stuff and like that's way too much. You kff we're not going through all that. He's a busy guy, he's a photographer, a filmmaker, and a of trying keep the ashes, which is also making me think that that's just not five urns of five people. That's making me think that that's five full urns and we got a new urn every time we filled it up all the way. So Arcee didn't exactly keep his interest in the crematorium a secret. years later, after the whole them pleading guilty thing in twenty fourteen, he participated in an art exhibit where he displayed what appeared to be an autopsy photographs of an unidentified dead woman. The exhibition reportedly ended with a video showing the woman's body being placed into an incinerator. Footage RC claimed to have filmed at the Kensington facility that received unidentified remains. And now I know where your brain is immediately going because mine went there too. If investigators believe women connected to RC are dead, their bodies haven't been found, and now we're learning this man had access to a crematorium, obviously the question becomes whether the facility could somehow explain what happened to them. However, we have a major problem. The crematorium connected to the Garzone funeral home shut down in 2007. The five women police currently believe are dead disappeared years later. So investigators are absolutely looking into RC's connection to that facility because it tells them something about his history and his access to human remains. But there is currently no public evidence that these missing women were cremated there. And that detail might be important for another reason. Until now, investigators have essentially been dealing with two categories when looking at RC's material stage death and potential real violence. But apparently there is now a third category. Actual dead people whom RC didn't kill. If he was really being allowed into a crematorium to photograph corpses, then investigators can't simply see an image of a dead woman in his collection and conclude that Arcee killed her. They have to identify her, determine when and where the photograph was taken, and establish whether she was already deceased before Arcee even encountered her. And then they have to separate those images from the women who were photographed alive. and subsequently disappeared. And that seems like a forensic fucking puzzle that I don't wanna do. It also helps explain why reviewing more than a million photographs and videos isn't simply as having a room full of investigators clicking through them looking for something scary. Because the scary part isn't enough at this point. They need context. Do we have the earliest date of images on his computers? I do not. Could you imagine how much harder and more fucked up he could have made this if he would have been even more artsy and he would have had a dark room and been developing his own images because then we wouldn't even have a digital footprint on them or a timestamp on them. That's true. thank God he wasn't more artsy. They may have dates on him. I personally did not get any of I'm just wondering because now we have that crematorium timeline that ends in two thousand seven and we have like our missing person that like we know in these things that we still haven't found a body of or found them is the earliest is twenty twelve. So I'm very curious as to what this early what our earliest sketchy photo is. Mhm. I'm sure they were pretty old. 'Cause he's old. He was eighty two last year. And before we move on from RC, there's one more property we need to talk about. Yes. A house. Because West Chu Avenue wasn't the first house connected to him that police had been inside of. So years earlier, Arcee lived in Chowfont, Pennsylvania, in Bucks County, which is about 25 miles north of Philadelphia. And in July of 2009, police were called to the house after a neighbor reported a suspicious vehicle parked outside. Officers eventually went inside and discovered a marijuana growing operation in the basement. So now we know how they've had their money for this whole time. Mm-hmm. Arcee was arrested at that time and the police were dealing with what appeared to be just a drug case, but now, more than fifteen years later, the house is actually getting attention again because someone who went inside after Arcee left Recently came forward with photographs. from inside the house. So it must have been fucking weird enough that they needed to photograph this and keep them. His name is Dave Speldos. Okay. In 2010, the Chalfont house had gone into foreclosure, and Dave was working for a property preservation company hired to clean it out and secure it. Part of his job was photographing the condition of properties before anything was removed. So he took photos throughout the house and kept those photographs for the next 16 years. Dave told Action News that he'd been inside plenty of disturbing properties through his work. Hoarders, drug houses, places filled with all kinds of bizarre shit. But he never forgot this one for some reason. Hmm. The photographs show women's wigs and underwear, sex toys, and anatomically correct mannequins. throughout the property. There was also something that appeared to be a plaster mould of a human body with a knife sticking out of its back. And now, knowing what we know about Arce and his photography and this kind of like imagery he created, none of that automatically means a crime. Some of the I love that he just left it all behind. He was arrested. My bad. He was gone, girl. Some of it could have easily just been like props or materials connected with his work. Yeah. Dave also remembered a large room-sized vault that was built into the basement. And that vault is apparently still there. The current owners recently allowed action news inside of the house. The basement had been completely remodeled since RC lived there, and the entrance to the vault is now hidden behind drywall. But according to the reporting, the vault itself still remains clear. I had to turn that shit into a bar. Why you gonna put why are you gonna cover the vault with drywall? That is the that is like a c that's a main feature in a house at this point. Big fucking vault. yeah, they they had to cover drywall and not just remove it. What? I'm sorry. You just messen your square footage. What you had a panic room. You're in Pennsylvania. You have a tornado shelter. I mean, they don't get some tornadoes up that high, but you have a shelter. I mean, as a vault, so it's locking from the outside, not the inside. But you're still in a giant metal box. You're fine. Just not picked Maybe it's still open it from the inside. Hopefully. I don't know. So As of September of twenty twenty six, so right now, Philly police and the FBI said they are aware of the former property, but had not searched it as part of the current investigation. So to be very clear, there's no public evidence right now that anybody has been harmed inside of the Shalfont house, and there's no evidence that the vault was used for anything criminal. But there's another connection to this house that makes it even more relevant to our story. Amy McHale who I mentioned earlier, had actually been there. I did not explain who Amy is. You didn't. You need to explain what Amy is. Amy McHale, you guys, is a gal who was definitely connected to this house and the police realized that she was connected to the West Chu property. And I can tell you why. Not because she was in photographs or videos or anything disturbing like that. She was married to RC. she is also currently missing. And I will explain that a little bit later and explain what happened there. I don't know what I did with my script. But she is also now connected to the Chofon house. Okay. A woman who lived across the street from the Chalfront property told Action News that she remembered Amy being there during the time that Arcee lived there. She remembered seeing her at the house and then at some point she just completely stopped seeing her. Amy did not disappear from the Chalfont house. She disappeared years later in twenty sixteen to be exact. Okay. But it tells us that Amy's connection to Arcee went back years before her disappearance and extended back to this earlier property. when Dave, the guy who gave all of those photos, recently saw the investigation into the West Chu Avenue unfolding, he realized that the man that everyone's talking about is the same man who had lived in the strange house from before that he cleaned out 16 years earlier. Yeah. He contacted authorities and turned the photographs over to the local police and FBI. Whether anything in those photographs ultimately helps the investigators We don't know yet. But now investigators have photographic record of another house, another basement, and another period of RC's life. Years before anyone knew that there would eventually be seven women missing, possibly deceased, connected to the story. I also think it's crazy that these aren't like two like recluse guys that like didn't talk to anybody or didn't know anybody. Like Homeboy was out here socializing, talking to neighbors, like people knew, like we weren't like Obviously we were drug dealers, so like we we had a network. Like Yeah. Yes. Okay. I I really, really, really did expect this to be more of like a rec like I was very curious about how all this was happening. Thought they were more closey, like looking at them. Okay, I still don't understand why how anybody could look at Eugene and think he's a DEA or an FBI agent, but okay. So now let's go back to Eugene Horch. Yeah? Yeah. Eugene was still living in the West Chu Avenue after his father's death, and by the summer of twenty twenty six his life was apparently pretty chaotic. By the summer of when? Of twenty twenty six? Okay. So this summer? Okay. This past summer. Eugene was forty four years old and already had a criminal criminal record. I'm shocked. I know. He wasn't legally allowed to possess firearms because of previous felony convictions. And just a few months before the BMW incident, he'd been arrested after allegedly stabbing a man in the stomach during a dispute near Eighth Inn Market Street. That case was later withdrawn after the alleged victim didn't appear in court, and Eugene was released in May of twenty twenty-six. Huh. Then just weeks later came June nineteenth. The day that everything changed. We've already talked about a basic version of what happened the morning of June nineteenth. but there's actually a lot more to the encounter, like I told you. There was this thirty-nine-year-old woman sitting in the back seat with Eugene. I didn't mention that earlier. They were in the back seat. Weird. Yeah. Police have not publicly identified her, so I'm not going to either. The Ranger approached the car after he reportedly heard her telling Eugene, You're gonna hurt me. The Ranger also suspected there might be drug activity happening inside the vehicle, so additional officers were called over and Eugene was searched. Police say they did find a switchblade and a glass pipe on him. Inside the BMW, they investigators find they reported finding cocaine, fentanyl, and marijuana, along with two firearms whose serial numbers had been removed, like scratched off. Other reports say officers also recovered additional weapons including knives, a collapsible baton, and a cattle prod. And then there were the fake credentials that I mentioned. Okay. Mm-hmm. The fake DEA badge that he had had his photograph and was under the name of Eugene Frederick Steiner. Okay. So it was a fake name full ID. Not like his full name, but at least like he can't fuck up Eugene. Eugene. Yeah. Whatever. Little truths and all lies. So that's when the DEA the actual DEA got called. And that's when investigators turned their attention on the woman sitting in the back seat. She tells them her name is Blair Tonzelli. And she even gave over the identification to prove it. Except the photograph on the ID was actually a photograph of her. Just the name was different. Investigators quickly determined, obviously, that she was not Blair. And once they started questioning her about why she's walking around with an ID belonging to another person, she tells them that changed the something that changed the entire encounter. According to the search warrant affidavit later reported by the Philadelphia Inquirer, the woman said Eugene made her that fake ID. She said he had given her the identification using Blair's name and told her that if she ever got in trouble, she should use it. Which is already bizarre. Why Blair? Why would Eugene choose the identity of this particular woman? And did he know? Who Blair was and if she had been reported missing. The woman told investigators that she didn't know Blair and didn't even realize that she was missing. But she also told them, quote, I think something bad may have happened to her. End quote. And that wasn't just like a feeling she pulled out of nowhere. According to the affidavit, the woman said Eugene had never physically hurt her. But she described behavior that frightened her. She said he would become obsessive and would sometimes sit outside her home for extremely long periods of time. Including at one point, she described him sitting outside of her home for as long as 24 hours. Holy shit. Mm-hmm. She told investigators that Eugene had talked about hurting other people. And then she started talking about the basement at West Chu Avenue. She said she was afraid to go down there. According to her, Eugene had told her that he had hurt people in the basement. She said Eugene told her that he knew which chemicals could be used to break down a human body enough that the remains could be flushed down a toilet. Now remember, at this time that I'm telling you all of this, police had not searched the house yet. U well, you know, the sewer line makes a little bit more sense now. Yes does. At this moment, all they had is a woman sitting in the back of Eugene Horsch's BMW telling him that he made her a fake ID using the name of another woman that she believes something bad happened to. And Eugene talked about hurting people and allegedly talked about using chemicals to break down a body. Why did she need to use a fake ID? I don't even know. Then This is when police are like, We need to go to this house. Yeah. We need to go to this house. And then they found everything that we have already discussed. there is an important distinction here that I need to pop right up in here, y'all. These are allegations about what Eugene said, not proof of what he actually did. Eugene has not been charged in the connection with di with any disappearance or suspected death of any of the women we've discussed. And that timeline matters. When Amy McHale disappeared in twenty sixteen, Eugene was incarcerated on a previous drug conviction. So we can't simply treat Eugene and his father as interchangeable. What Eugene knew about the women, the basement, the enormous archive left inside the house remains one of those unquestioned or unanswered questions within this investigation. As of last week, investigators said they have identified fifty eight people appearing in the material recovered from the house. Some people have been located alive, which is Incredibly important because those women can help investigators understand what a normal photo shoot looked like and which disturbing scenes were staged. Two women who modeled for RC told NBC 10 this week that they personally never felt threatened by him during their photo shoots. One woman remembered him as professional and very clear about what he wanted. Another remembered something that seems a like much more unsettling in hindsight, an odor in the house. And RC telling her not to go in the basement. At the time she said she ignored it. Now she's watching the same investigation we are. Yeah. And somewhere among all of this are the seven women who have disappeared. Now, before we get back to those women. We need to talk about one more thing investigators found inside of the house because this is where one of the details that immediately got a ton of attention when the story broke. The five urns. I know you've been waiting for this. Yeah. I I need more on this. Mm-hmm. When investigators initially discovered what appeared to be cremated human remains inside the property, you can understand why everyone's mind immediately went to the missing woman. Five urns multiple missing women, a basement full of chemicals, it practically writes itself. You know what I'm saying? Criminal minds would eat the shit up. Yeah. Except reality. Mm-hmm. Except reality once again is messier. Investigators have since developed information indicating that at least some of those remains belonged to people who already were already known to the family, including RC himself, his sister and a friend. Two of the urns have remained unidentified in public reporting. So I was right. Mm-hmm. There's family member urns. so Obviously. A lot I the dynamic that I think I now have And just just tell me right here. So essentially Arcee is super creepy and really, really likes the fantasy of all of this and the whether he likes the execution of it or not as well. And I and I see Eugene as being the drug dealer and the money behind this and supporting dad's lifestyle after dad was no longer in the film and art world. And so therefore I feel like Eugene just has some learned traits from his dad, but he's way more about the drugs and money and the controlling the girls and probably sexual. Whereas RC is way more about the torture and the he likes that more. And we just have some they just make a good team. Yeah. In a frupped up way. A very gross team. But I don't think I'm seeing this more as like this twisted serial killer who lured these women to the house and and got them to come and do these things so that he could kill them. I think I'm more seeing this as he's twistly got people to do this. I don't know if we have ODs or accidentals or even if he's responsible for any deaths and then we have son who's like, I like To make drugs and sell them. And do them. Yep. And I like to have guns. And I just feel like it's just this really weird father-son thing. And like it's so crazy that like it looks like so much and then it's like nothing. Yeah. Yeah. It's so weird. Mm-hmm. So as of September, police have connected seven missing women to this house. Five of those women are now believed to be deceased, based largely on what investigators say, appears in the recovered photographs and videos. Two others, Amy McHale and Blair Tonzelli, still remain missing. Police have reviewed only about thirty percent of the enormous digital archive, meaning hundreds of thousands of files have still not been fully examined. And here's where I think we need to stop thinking about this as one giant group of missing women because they each have a story. They disappeared in different years. Their cases spanned more than a decade and more before this investigation even started. Most of their families had no reason to believe their disappearances were connected in any way. So I want to tell you about them individually. The earliest disappearance is Gabrielle Amarondo. Gabrielle was twenty-two years old when she disappeared in September of twenty twelve. Her family has said that she was struggling with drug addiction at the time, and then eventually they just stopped hearing from her. And that silence lasted for years. Her family didn't know where she was, whether she was safe, or whether she was even alive. Then, 14 years after she disappeared, police contacted her family because they believed she had had been identified in the digital material recovered during this investigation. Investigators say they found photographs and videos showing her alive. But they also found later material in which she appears to be deceased. And there's a really strange detail in that timeline as well. Police say metadata from some of those images dates her in 2017 and she disappeared in 2012. So potentially she was still alive years after her family lost contact with her. That leaves an enormous five-year period where investigators now have to reconstruct. Where was she? Who was she with? Was she staying in Philly the whole entire time? Did she know where she was? And then at some point something changed. Investigators believe the later images show Gabrielle dead. Her remains have never been recovered at this time. So her family has now gone from fourteen years of not knowing what happened to being told that police believe she is dead, while still not having her body and not knowing exactly how or when she died. And her family isn't the only one in that horrible middle ground. Four years after Gabrielle disappeared, Amy McHale vanished. Amy was in her mid forties when she disappeared in June of twenty sixteen. Her connection to this case is much more direct because Amy had previously been married to RC. How long were they married for? I am not too sure. And she's not Eugene's mom, right? Correct. She is she is not. Mm. They eventually divorced, but Amy remained in contact with him. Amy was also struggling with addiction at the time she disappeared. Her daughter has said that Amy was actively using heroin and receiving methadone treatment. Then on june thirteenth, twenty sixteen, Amy disappeared. According to her family, Amy had gotten into an argument with her mother that day. Sometime afterwards she went to the house on West Chu Avenue, and that night Amy called her daughter. Her daughter didn't answer, so Amy left her a voicemail saying that she was safe and she was at Arcee's house. Then that was the last time Amy's mother or daughter had ever heard from her. And unlike some of the other women we're going to talk about, police have not announced that there were any photographs or videos showing Amy deceased at all. So like was that not ever investigated in Arcee's house after Amy was like last contacted and her daughter not like Or was it just because of the drug use and stuff like that? I think it was just the cat. Mm-hmm. They the police have searched the digital evidence. They've tested physical evidence from the property, Investigators have said they haven't found any digital evidence explaining what happened to Amy. They did not say physical though. so Amy is still considered officially missing. Amy's daughter has said that in her heart she believes her mother is dead. Because she doesn't believe that Amy would willingly disappear for ten years. But until investigators find evidence proving otherwise, Amy McHale remains a missing person. Two years after Amy went missing in 2018, Maribel Bella Fresses disappeared. I'm really sorry if I said the name wrong. Maribel, I'm gonna call her Bella. since that's what she went by, was twenty seven years old. Her family spent the next eight years without knowing what happened to her. Her brother has talked about reaching a point where he thought he simply might never get an answer. Then police contacted the family in twenty twenty six. Investigators believe that they had identified Bella in the recovered digital material. Just like Gabrielle, police say Bella appears alive in some of the material and appears deceased in other images. And there's another strange part in the timeline. Investigators say metadata from the images involving both Bella and Gabrielle dates to twenty seventeen. But Bella wasn't reported missing until February of twenty eighteen. So here's what I'm thinking about this twenty seventeen popping up on both of them. I'm wondering if we transferred hard drives in that year. Maybe. Or like if we transferred everything to a hard drive, like an external hard drive in that year, or if a computer crashed and we recovered files into another computer and it changed the metadata of it. I'm sure that they could see that if it did, but you know what I mean? Like I would understand that from Gabrielle, but not Bella. Well Unless 'cause the pictures of her before she's deceased is twenty seventeen, right? Mm-hmm. And she's not reported missing 'til twenty eighteen, right? Correct. So I She was using as well. I could say she'd been in this house and done a photo shoot with him before. Mm-hmm. And that was in twenty seventeen. I it wasn't until twenty eighteen when a photo shoot went wrong. I wonder this is kind of clicking with me now. I wonder if he was dealing to these girls and if they couldn't pay, he said Let's do a photo shoot. There we go. Just saying. So police now have to figure out exactly when those images were taken and when Bella was last independently known to be alive and what happened between those points. Her remains have never been recovered either. Bella's mother has pu spoken publicly about how difficult this has been, even though police are telling the family they believe she is dead. She still doesn't have her daughter's body. There's no gravesite, no medical examiner telling him exactly how she died, so there's still a piece missing. I need to take you back to 2018. Okay. Another woman disappeared. Okay. Nicole Fassaro. Nicole was twenty seven years old and was last seen around Kensington and Allegheny Avenues on July nineteenth, twenty eighteen. Nicole was an only child. Her mother, Diane, spent years searching for her. She reportedly walked through the streets looking for Nicole, trying to figure out where her daughter had gone. Diane never got the answer. Diane died in January of 2020, less than two years after Nicole disappeared. And Nicole's father had already died years earlier. So by the time investigators uncovered information about Nicole in 2026, both of her parents were gone. That's so sad. Other members of Nicole's family had continued looking for her, including her cousin, James Halloran Corinne. And eventually investigators told Nicole's family that they believe they found her in the recovered video evidence. this is kinda where I wanna put that trigger warning really quick. Mm-hmm. So she was the first one of the video evidence to be identified. Okay. I thought I had this in here earlier and apparently I don't. And I haven't released any of those videos, have you? So what you're seeing online is AI. Just like with the Ciders case. You're the video. If you see any videos, it is AI. I have had there's one video I've seen it pop up under three different accounts. It's like a redhead and it's like a chain around the throat and like a whole like room it's I never have watched it for more than a second and a half to two seconds once I realize what is on my TikTok feed. But just like with the Ciders case, they were making false videos of kids in chains, and they're doing the same thing with this. So just know there are no videos that have been released by the FBI. No videos have been released. However, description of this video with Nicole has been released. Which is fine, but the actual Physical video. So if you see something floating around, let's go back to the nineties and what we were taught about the internet. Mm-hmm. Not everything on the internet is real. So this is where that trigger warning comes into play, you guys. There were two separate camera angles. One was a setup camera and the other one was from RC holding it. Yes, I've heard this. that shows like wasn't the one like a mounted camera that like that like viewed the room Like you would have like a camera in your living room or point it on your front deck or something. The other one was a camera held by RC. Yeah. Yeah. and it showed her in bed and him essentially having something around her throat where he was tightening it and then loosening it, tightening it, loosening it until she was unconscious. Yeah. So what matters here is that investigators believe Nicole is the woman in the footage and based on what they've seen they believe she is dead and her body has never been recovered. And her family has actually been critical of how some of this information became public. Her cousin said that the police publicly discussed graphic details about this video before Nicole's relatives had been fully briefed on some of those details. You're fucking lying. I'm not. Also, the details I gave you are That was the most PG version of that I think you could have given because I was like, I even know one more detail than what you just gave me. I'm trying to be respectful. No, one thousand and ten percent because Yeah. This is just Like I I obviously I don't wanna give you guys a lot of details on this because of respect of the victims because that's So this is irritated. Let me tell you about this. Because the police are gonna give that many details about this video before they even give all those details to the family. And I get that her parents aren't alive, but still they're still living relatives that we need to be respectful of. But yet Maggie Long, it took us two years to even get details about her death out, and it actually could have been useful for solving her murder, which by the way still hasn't been solved yet. but yet we couldn't get those details and we still can't get all the details out of that case and we can solve this case. But in this case in particular, we have Homeboy arrested and we have Homeboy dead. But yeah, let's go ahead and give out these details. Yeah. I have a feeling that it was leaked. It doesn't matter. I agree. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. But I don't know. I we yeah. No details should have been there was no reason for anybody who was working on this to talk to anybody about the details of that video unless they have the correct Credentials to be discussing it. Mm-hmm. I think nothing should be discussed right now. And that is coming from somebody who literally talks about this shit on a fucking podcast. I don't need those details. Those details are for the family. We don't need those. When this entire case is wrapped up and said and done, sure. In a trial, let's go. But just to give out the salacious details, to give them out because people want them, it it it's not and especially when it doesn't do anything. It isn't giving up those details is not helping. Zero. I would rather have them be releasing details of where all these glass girls known whereabouts were. What area were they all in? What kind of drugs were they using? Is you know what I mean? Like there's a million other details that you could be leaking or giving out to us that would be helpful to help you guys. This is not it. Yep. And if you're here to just get the gory details, like that's not what this podcast is. I'm just this is what infuriates me. with some things. Like there's no need for that. There's no need to traumatize this family. I think it's important to mention that because it's very easy for a case like this to get turned into a giant, horrifying mystery that everyone follows for the newest crazy development, like Nicole isn't a development in a story. All of these women are not developments in a story. They're someone's daughter, possibly a mother. And Nicole specifically, her mother died without knowing what even happened to her. Her family spent years looking for her, and now they're trying to process information that no family should ever have to hear. No. And then now we have Blair Tanzelli. Blair was 35 when she disappeared. Friends have said Blair had struggled with addiction for years. Public reporting indicates that she had been living in Kensington before she disappeared, and she was reported missing in 2023. There is some inconsistency in the public rec reported timelines surrounding Blair. Some reports place her l last known contact in twenty twenty two, but she was formally reported missing in twenty twenty three. So I don't want to pretend we have an exact disappearance date when the public record is still a little messy. But what we do know is that Blair has not been found. And despite everything uncovered during this investigation, Police have not announced finding digital evidence showing Blair deceased. So, just like Amy, Blair remains officially missing as well. Then there was a sixth woman whose story I can't tell you in the same amount of detail because her family has specifically asked police not to release her identity publicly. And I don't blame them. Absolutely not. Investigators have identified her and police say she appears to have been around twenty-five years old. In the recovered recordings. Based on the digital evidence, investigators believe she is deceased, but her family has asked for privacy. So I'm gonna leave her name exactly where her family has asked for it to remain, which is private. And finally, there is a seventh woman. Except investigators don't know who she is. The police are referring to her as Jane Doe. Investigators estimate that she was in her twenties when the material involving her was created. And based on what they reviewed, they believe she's also deceased, but they haven't been able to identify her. Police don't know whether she was ever reported missing. They don't know whether someone had been searching for her for years. They don't know whether her family believes she's alive somewhere or whether she had become estrained from ever estranged from everyone she knew. All they know is that she existed. And now they're trying to give her name back. As of right now, this is where this case stands. Yeah. Gabrielle Emerondo, Maribel Fresses, and Nicole Forsaro are missing. But investigators believe they are deceased. Two additional women are also believed to be deceased, one whose identity is being withheld from at her family's request, and one whom investigators still have not identified. Amy McHale and Blair Tunzelli remain missing. None of these women remain of these women's remains have been recovered. And because this investigation is still very active. There is still a chance that somebody listening or reading about this case knows something they don't realize is important. Maybe you knew one of these women. Maybe you saw Amy after June thirteenth of twenty sixteen. Maybe you knew Blair around the time she disappeared. Maybe you recognize the description or eventually recognize an image of the unidentified Jane Doe, which I don't have. You guys are kinda still keeping it a little under wraps right now until they get through things. Or maybe you were around West Shoe Avenue during any of those years and remember something that seemed completely insignificant at the time. If you have information about Amy McHale, Blair Tanzelli, Gabrielle Emerondo, Maribel Fressus, Nicole Fassaro, the identified Jane Doe, or any other woman who may be connected to this investigation, call the Philadelphia Police Department Homicide Unit 215-686-720. three three three four. You can also submit information through the Philadelphia Police Department's anonymous tip line at 215 686 tips. That's 215 686 8477. And if you do recognize Jane Doe, if you ever get a description or a picture or you think you might know who she is, please don't assume that somebody else is already called. Because right now investigators don't know her name, but someone out there might. Yeah. And this is where we currently sit. Alright, so you want me to tell him now that I told you about halfway through. Please. Okay, so probably like what, like 30 minutes ago, maybe? Not even. Like not even minutes ago. I had this little thought. because I was trying to connect, like, obviously, RC is our Artsy Fartsy tortured soul f Let's make pictures and f videos and do this in a professional setting and a private, weird, creepy So with him with RC being the taking the pictures, and he had a career in this, and this was that. But he was 82 when he died. Mm-hmm. And in 2025. In twenty twenty five. And so I was trying to figure out where Eugene plays a role in all this because he seems way more on the drugs and the guns and the money side of it. I mean that's kind of because I was trying to figure out why he was using this fake idea with this girl. Like why use this if you know she's missing or something? Yeah. I feel like he had a lapse in judgment here of who this person was. Yeah, that's crazy. But anyway, what if Eugene it it's not a father teaching son? It was At a certain point, Eugene or R C with his C O P D, he couldn't go and physically get these women anymore. So he was using Eugene and the drugs to go pick up these different women for him. And I like what you added. With if some of these women couldn't afford to pay them, they were probably shoot. Yeah. So what I said was that they were probably supplying these drugs to them and if they couldn't pay, RC was like, Well, let's do a photo shoot. And to to solve this part to to maybe even help with the part of the time difference in these women missing to the timestamps in these videos and images of when they are believed to be deceased. We're all dealing with addiction. All these victims have addiction in common. So there's a very good chance that they weren't that yes, they were missing from their families, but they were in different trap houses and drug houses and other stuff like that, and they were around just not where anybody knew them. Yes. I'm also very sorry that at least a couple of the photos I'm using of the girls are mug shots. Which is there's other photos out there of them, but I one, don't want to overload our episode with just pictures, but I also felt like it was a detail that needed to be added. Yes. Because even though it wasn't outwardly out there, it seems as though all of these women had an a an addiction problem. I mean, and it's the perfect victim pool for RC. Yeah. I mean, he's literally using serial killer one one for this entire thing, and he's probably not even a serial killer. I'm honestly the other thing is is I'm honestly wondering if they were giving these girls drugs and just they ended up ODing a couple like a few of them ended up ODing and he had to figure it out and we had the crematorium and then we have He learned from them apparently or researched and then we had the water cremation. So I'm thinking Eugene is more so yes, he was ta I I don't feel like he was originally like, I'm gonna join my dad in this. I think R C got older. He was already using Eugene to get these girls. And he's with the IDs, which makes him she said that. Why he has he's the only one who has the D E A and the FBI credentials and why R C didn't, because that's how he was using to get these girls when RC no longer could. Mm-hmm. And so I think that Eugene was just bringing him these girls. And that's why I don't think because we also have the fifty eight identified, we have some that died later on of ODs, years later, different places around the country and stuff. And so I don't I think these deaths that we do have were accidental. Tightened and loosened one too many times. Mm-hmm. Accidentally gave too much. You know, or accidentally they were doing too much. I just I think which makes it worse and harder. Like Or was it actually accidental? I just think they're gonna have a very Because maybe like the f I'm sorry this is fully alleged, but like maybe the one or two times could have been accidental and then he's like And that's and I had that thought too that like maybe the first few weren't intentional but he liked it. It or maybe one of them did die and then he went to do a f a ph photography session or photo shoot And it wasn't the same high that he liked. Yeah. But he was into some fucked up shit, guys. Yes, he was. So like I know we're talking like very I we're not getting into it, but it was very, very, very fucked up shit. It was dark. Very dark. No, I we're not talking like, that that photo shoot's so edgy. Yeah, no, it was fucking dark. Yeah. No. Like nasty, decrepit bullshit. Yeah. So it's just gonna be very interesting to see what comes out of this. And then because everyone's dubbing it the Philly serial killer, and we're like, but did he even kill anybody? Like there's literally no evidence of him actually killing people. There's also no evidence of bodies. Is another criminal minds episode where he doesn't actually kill them, he just well, okay, there's two different ones. One has to deal as a therapist dealing with the fears and he actually really was killing them. But like he wasn't doing it himself. And There was another one who they were dying from situations they were put in, but he wasn't actually killing it's like and then there's a freaking movie franchise about it. A whole actually it's only horror. It's like one of my favorite horror movie franchises. it's so good. I love it. And I don't like scary movies. Anyway, I'm just saying that like this is being dubbed like a Philly serial killer, and we don't even know if he's a serial killer. Yeah. There's literally no proof. Of murder or bodies at all. This in any of the properties that these or the sewer system, which is even crazier to me. Yeah. And like there's no physical evidence these girls' cadaver dogs weren't hitting on stuff. I'm just like that we know of this is wild. They have not released if the cadavers had any hits on anything. My bad. So it's just obviously there's a lot of information still being withheld, which is totally understandable considering this just broke. How long ago? And of course internet sleuths, including us, have already gotten a hold of it. And I'm I mean, obviously we're making our own assumptions to it, but we're not like, this is what happened. Like We gave it some time to get some more information out. Yes. We knew that I mean, we could have kept building and building and building and working on this episode. But we knew we needed to get at least the base out to you guys so that we can continue in W T F Yeah. Continue in social and so that we don't hopefully have to put out hours long episodes all the time for you guys. so sometimes we don't jump on things from the very beginning because the ciders case. We jumped on the ciders really fast and look how much it's evolved since then. God But I'm really glad we did because that would have been a whole lot to do. Which is why we did this one this way because it would be a lot more if we started after this. Correct. So now we just need to go forward and build off of this. But we did need to get you guys the correct information out because there's so much misinformation out there. Yes. And if you couldn't tell, I purposely left a lot of information out. Because it's not confirmed. That and because it shouldn't be out there yet. Yeah. Just to be real. So I'm very, very interested to see how this is going to unfold. What kind of connection Eugene is gonna have in this whole thing, 'cause as of right now, there's zero connection. Other than him just grow Throwing marijuana and drugs and all this and being in the house and the DEA stuff and like what he's charged with. And what the lady said he said. Yes. That's the only actual connection we have there is a he said, she said moment. So I'm very curious on what's gonna happen at this point. 'Cause I don't know if he's even talking. Yeah. We have no idea what kind of heck, he could have gotten in an interview room and sang. And we have no idea. He could have straight sang in that interview room with his dad being dead. Mm-hmm. also please stop making fucking AI videos of this. Don't do that. For anything. Don't do that. We're done with that. Don't do that. If you're gonna make AI videos, do it of Sorry, I really like ones of like, Justin Bieber's my husband. I would do I Yeah, make stupid AI videos. But this video has been long enough. We've kept you here forever. We have. anyway, I hope you guys enjoyed today's episode. If you hopefully you're as mind fucked as We feel. Yes. So we will catch you next week with an all new episode. It is a case submission. Don't wanna miss it. Nope. make sure you go out and buy your tickets for our live show at Painting with a Twist. It will be linked in the show notes. Yes, it will. It's on our website. It pops up. It's on our social medias. October thirtieth, seven PM, Candlemaking, powers and constitution. We are gonna have costume contests, so make sure you are with it. And yeah, we're super excited and can't wait to see you all. Hell yeah. So we will catch you guys next week with an all-new episode. Stop fucking killing each other. Lock your damn doors. Stop leaving your friends. Okay. Love you. Bye.