justice for: There's a difference between being your child's parent and being their best friend. A parent sets boundaries. A parent says no. A parent does the hard things, even when their child doesn't like them. Because sometimes being a good parent means being the bad guy. But what happens when being a cool mom becomes more important than being the parent? When the lines between mother and daughter become blurred, and choices that should have come with consequences are instead met with understanding, protection, or even encouragement. Unfortunately, for Gretchen and Grace Ryan, that dynamic would have deadly consequences. What may have started as a mother wanting to be your daughter's best friend would ultimately become a tragedy that changed multiple lives forever. Welcome back to Justice Four. We are your hosts, I'm Jackie. And I'm Sam. A few months ago, a Colorado mother was arrested on second degree murder charges relating to the death of her 16-year-old daughter who died from chronic alcoholism. Not a weakened bender that leads to alcohol poisoning. Severe chronic prolonged alcohol abuse was responsible. At sixteen. This is all I know about the case so far, by the way. There wasn't a lot of information being released, and what was released was not adding up, and I had a lot of questions. So I decided to request the affidavit myself, and to my shock, they sent it to me. That's fucking crazy. And let me tell you I am still shocked at what I read. So today we're gonna go through all the details of the twenty six page affidavit. no. I'm not ready. Ay, ay, ay, ay, ay. But before we get into all of that, you know what time it is. Shameless plug time. 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So all of that is linked below in our descriptions as always. It'll always be on Facebook and Instagram. If you need to find anything for our live shows or updates and cases, make sure you're following us there as well. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. and I know we've already talked about it before the painting with the twist one with the candle making. It's on October thirtieth, you guys, the day before Halloween. Costumes. There will be a costume contest. So please go all out. Please. Please, please, please. Halloween is literally my favorite. It is. So show up and show up for Sam. Please do it. Alright. Are you ready for me to ruin your day? Fuck no. You've already asked me this like four times and I keep saying no. Okay. Around eight AM on march ninth, twenty twenty six, Gretchen Ryan found her sixteen year old daughter Grace unresponsive and not breathing on the bathroom floor. Gretchen yelled for her husband John to call nine one one. The dispatcher instructed John to perform CPR on Grace while Gretchen unlocked the front door for EMS. At eight twenty AM, emergency responders arrived and unfortunately there was nothing they could do. Sixteen year old Grace Ryan was pronounced dead at eight twenty two AM. While talking with John, officers realized that Gretchen was nowhere to be seen. Officers eventually found her locked in her bedroom, and after some back and forth, she decided to unlock the door and talk to officers face to face. They were definitely shocked when Gretchen opened the door wearing only a T shirt and an adult diaper. Ew. John and Gretchen were told to wait on the couch until detectives arrived to interview them. While waiting, Gretchen is described as crying loudly and was randomly exclaiming that she doesn't know how to do any of this. She would cover her face a lot and just randomly just cry out. John was the opposite. He was reserved, quiet, and intermittently had tears in his eyes. Before detectives spoke with Gretchen and John, they looked around the house, including Grace's bedroom in the bathroom where she was found. Grace's room looked to be in a bit of disarray, which I know most teenage rooms can be, but there was trash and dirty plates scattered on the floor, and the mattress was elevated, it wasn't really laying flat. And there was an empty vodka bottle visible on the floor. And in the bathroom there was evidence of Grace being sick. They also found her iPad in the bathroom, and the house had a very strong smell of urine, which was thought to be because of the dogs that they could hear barking downstairs. no. Gretchen and John were interviewed separately. A detective took John outside to the back patio while Gretchen and another detective stayed inside on the couch. Is she still in her diaper? I have no idea at this point. God, let's hope she put pants on. Before the detective could even ask a question, Gretchen blurts out, I can't do this. I think she got into my liquor. I killed her. I beg your finest part it. The detective asked Gretchen, Why would you say that? Uh-huh. Gretchen responded with, I drink a lot. And that's when the officer became or the detective became more aware of the fact that Gretchen was slurring some of her words while over enunciating other words. And he asked if she had been drinking today, and she said no, but she did last night. It's like eight AM, right? Yeah. Nine AM by this point. Okay. Gretchen began telling the detective that Grace has a seizure disorder. Her first seizure happened in September of twenty twenty five. She said Grace was laying in her bed with her and then fell out of bed and her body went rigid and her eyes rolled in the back of her head. She called nine one one and after four or five minutes, Grace was alert and able to respond, but EMT's told her it wasn't a true seizure because Grace didn't wet herself. But they took her to the hospital anyway. The doctor told Gretchen that it's normal for teenage girls to have seizures because they have anxiety, which brings on seizures. Wait, who said that? The doctor. The do They didn't give her meds or schedule any follow ups. When asked if she had any more seizures after that, Gretchen said the only other one happened last night. Causing the detective to ask her to tell him everything about the night before. Uh-huh. She told him that Grace was watching TV with her in her bedroom when Grace told her that she wasn't feeling well, like she was about to get her period. So she went to the bathroom. Not long after around ten PM, Gretchen said she heard a loud noise and thought Grace could have fallen in the bathroom. So Gretchen found Grace on the bathroom floor with her eyes rolled back in her head, so she rolled her on her side like she was told to do if this happened again. And after a few minutes, Grace woke up and seemed okay. and just felt like she was gonna throw up. Gretchen asked if Grace wanted her to stay, and Grace replied, No, I want you to go. Gretchen then said that she went back to check on Grace around ten forty five, and could tell that Grace had been throwing up. Grace said she was fine, and Gretchen said she believed her like an idiot and just went to bed. She then went on to say that when she woke up the next morning she went and checked on Grace and she could just tell by looking at her that she was dead, and that's when she yelled for John. My gosh. Okay. Then without the detective saying anything, Gretchen reiterated that she drinks a lot and doesn't know if Grace had been getting into her stuff, specifically her liquor. The detective asked Gretchen if she suspected Grace had been drinking, and Gretchen responded, Yeah, I do. Then went on to describe how Grace had been acting like she consumed too much alcohol, was acting loopy and out of it, and that she was getting sick. Gretchen then admitted that she never confronted Grace about it and she keeps her alcohol in her room because it's convenient for her. and that she had never caught Grace taking her alcohol, but that doesn't mean that she's not taking it. okay. Are you confused yet? yes. Thank you. You're confused. I'm fucking confused, bro. The detective's confused, as they should be. The detective asked if she had ever drank in Grace's room. And Gretchen said no. Then he asked if she had ever found any like liquor bottles in Grace's room. And she replied no. Then said, Well, she might have some under her bed. I think I saw one one time. Gretchen went on to say it was five months ago and Grace told her she took it from her room. then she said, Quote, I honestly think she's been stealing my vodka. I can't do this. I'm so upset. I feel like I killed her. End quote. When asked why she says that, she says, Because she got into my vodka. What? The detective then asked her if she knew that's what happened or that's what she thought happened, and Gretchen responds that she thinks that happened. Girl So which is it, Gretchen? Have you confronted her about drinking or not? Has she taken liquor from you or not? She basically confirmed that five months she did. Five months ago she did, but then she's like I don't know. What do you mean? What do you mean? Clearly the detective is picking up on the fact that Gretchen just might be an alcoholic. No way. And begins asking her about her drinking habits. Gretchen admits to consuming about five to six drinks a day, normally a shot of vodka mixed with ginger ale. Oftentimes waking up in the middle of the night to mix a drink and go back to bed. Which is why it's more convenient for her to keep her liquor in her bedroom. Her husband John keeps his liquor on the kitchen counter and he sleeps downstairs. According to Gretchen, it's because of snoring and they sleep better this way. I'll let you come to your own conclusions at the end of this episode why they sleep on different floors of the house. The detective asked Gretchen multiple times if she was drinking the night before and if she was drunk. Uh-huh. And if she let Grace drink with her last night. Gretchen admits to being drunk and that she may have let Grace drink with her, before ultimately admitting she let Grace drink with her. She also admitted to waking up around 3 AM, making herself a drink before going back to bed, adding that she never left her room when she woke up at 3 A.M. Okay. When asked how much vodka Grace had last night, Gretchen pointed to an oversized mason jar and put her finger about halfway up the glass and said about this much. When asked if it was mixed with anything, Gretchen said no. yuck. When asked if it was normal for Grace to do, Gretchen said yeah, I guess so, and that she had never seen Grace mix her vodka with anything. That's nasty. Was it at least chilled caught, I hope so. Probably not if it's in her room though. Can you think about the entirety of that? This woman has just been saying that she does not think her daughter drinks. Has never caught her and now is admitting that she's drinking over a half about a half full oversized mason jar. Yeah, that nasty. Not mixed with anything. I can't tell you how I can't tell you very many adults who can drink vodka like that. Yeah, that's fucking gross. At this point the detective is like, What the fuck is going on in this house? Period. So he hit Gretchen with one of these. I'm ready. Just to make sure I understand. Grace didn't eat dinner last night. Gretchen corrected him saying Grace hadn't eaten since dinner since Saturday night. Hadn't eaten anything since dinner on Saturday night. Sunday, Gretchen and Grace spent all day watching TV and drinking in Gretchen's room, reiterating she drank half of an oversized mason jar of vodka. Grace started to not feel well, went into the bathroom. Gretchen heard loud noises in the bathroom and went to check on Grace where she found her unresponsive. Gretchen rolled Grace on her aside, thinking it was a seizure. After a few minutes, Grace woke up. Grace then told Gretchen to leave her alone, and Gretchen checked on Grace two more times. The first time Grace said to leave her alone and that she wasn't coming back to the bedroom for a while. The second time, Gretchen noticed that Grace had been vomiting, and Grace told her to leave her alone, so Gretchen went to bed, waking up around 3 a.m. to make herself a drink in her room before going back to bed. She said she meant to go check on Grace, but she didn't. Right. When asked why she didn't call for an ambulance when Grace had a seizure, She simply replied because the doctor told her what to do if it happened again. And since Grace woke up after a few minutes, and she knew her birthday and seemed like herself, Gretchen assumed she was fine and didn't need to go to the hospital. Okay. It was at this point that the detective decided to pause his interview with Gretchen and check in with the other detectives and investigators to see what they had found in this house and found out from John. Hoping to make sense of Gretchen's contradicting statements up to this point. Girl, I'm confused as hell. Yeah, 'cause every time she talks, she just adds more. Yeah. I was like it's like a waterfall. Yeah. Like it just snowballing. We just the more sh every time he asks a question, we just get new and more information. Yeah. Yikes. I need y'all to buckle up so I can tell y'all what they found in Grace's room. What kind of buckle do you want from me? Be creative. We're gonna go NASCAR, y'all. Alright you locked in? I'm locked. In Grace's room alone, a total of one hundred and seventy three empty alcohol bottles. Two include shooters, buzz balls, premixed margaritas, rum, and there was a large bottle of Tito's, a large empty bottle of Tito's in the trash can. The majority were large empty vodka bottles. We're talking 1.75 liters. We're talking handles. We're talking mostly handles of vodka. Yuck. We're definitely not done with Gretchen's interview with detectives that morning at the house, but before we go any further I need to give you some background info on Grace and her family. Okay. October fifth, two thousand nine. Grace Elizabeth Ryan was born to parents Gretchen and John. Grace has two brothers as well, Jacob and Evan. But I'm not sure if they're older or younger. There's not a lot of info out there about them. But I am assuming that they are older because they weren't living in the house during this time. Okay. Also, John's name is redacted in the affidavit that I have, but I know his name from her obituary. Why would John's name be redacted? Grace's name is even redacted. What? Yeah, I only have Gretchen's name. But it's pretty easy to figure out who's talking about who in them because also the size of the black outline also helps. That's fair. That's crazy. Yeah. So there are some things in there that like I don't specifically quote all the way because I don't have that redacted couple words, even though I can assume that they are mom or Grace. Or you know what I mean? That makes sense. The Ryan family lives in Arvada Colorado, which is the northwest area of Denver, located in Jefferson County. Yep. This is where Grace and her siblings were raised. They went to church regularly. Grace was incredibly close with her cousins. She loved spending time with family, and Grace also loved school. She had dreams of becoming a social worker, but she also loved school because she got to see her friends every day, which she had a lot of. So it was really odd that Gretchen unenrolled Grace from her public high school in April of twenty twenty five and enrolled Grace into an online school. At first Grace was pretty good about logging in and doing her schooling. What year was this? this was so spring of twenty twenty five. year before so this is a year before this happened. Yeah. I don't know why my mind like, maybe it was COVID. No. No. When the new school year started, Grace was logging in and doing her schoolwork pretty consistently. Mm-hmm. Then suddenly in October and November, Grace basically stopped logging into the school with only one login per month for October and November. Then nothing after that. Grace wasn't enrolled in any activities or sports, and she did keep in contact with some of her friends from school, still hanging out with them here and there, until eventually she only communicated with her friends through text. one of her friends last time she saw her was like Halloween. Of 2025. Like saw her in person. Yeah. So let's go back to Gretchen's interview with detectives at the house. So the detective tells Gretchen about the large amount of empty alcohol bottles found in Grace's room. And her response was, and I quote, are you fucking kidding me? I have the same question for you, ma'am. She wasn't getting them herself. To which the officer reiterated that they found a lot of them. Gretchen was asked if she thought Grace took all those bottles from her, and she responded, yes, she does think Grace took them from her. Before, and I quote, she began wailing that she was going to die. The detective ignored that and asked her how often she purchases vodka. So she's sitting there, I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die. How often do you purchase your alcohol? She said a lot. That's it? Emphasizing that she buys one to two bottles of vodka a day. When asked if she consumes one to two bottles a day, Gretchen said she usually drinks a bottle of vodka a day. And I need to once again clarify we are talking about 1.75 liter bottles, not seven fifties. The detective then asked if Grace also consumes a bottle of vodka a day. Gretchen responded with, I think she must. He again asked his favorite question, Do you think that or do you know that? And Gretchen responded, quote Well, I think I know it now because you found bottles in her room. End quote. Then kept being over the top dramatic, explaining, my god, and the same thing she has since detectives arrived. I'm gonna die. I don't know how to do this. I killed her. Gretchen said she usually has her alcohol delivered, but is still a regular at the liquor store near the house on ninety second Avenue, adding that they know she's an alcoholic, and that she only had to show her ID for the first alcohol delivery, and after that she didn't need to show it anymore. Gretchen denied Grace having the app on her phone and being able to order alcohol without her mom knowing. And honestly, the rest of the affidavit does confirm that that wasn't a thing that Grace was doing. Okay. All the text messages very much show that. Okay, good. Gretchen then handed her phone over to the detective to show him her purchase history on the Uber Eats app. March 8th. Svedka vodka. 1.75 liter and a two-liter ginger ale. March 7th. Svedka vodka, one point seven five liters and a two liter of ginger ale and a Gatorade. March sixth Gatorade, wow. Svedka vodka. 1.75 liter and a two liter of ginger ale and a Gatorade. March fifth, Svedka vodka, one point seven five and a smart water. March third, Jack Daniels, seven fifty. Tito's one liter. February twenty eighth, Svedka. Vodka, one point seven five liters. And I'm sure it kept going, but that's just what we got in the affidavit. Ew. While the detective is going through her purchases, Gretchen starts asking him if she is going to jail. As the detective is explaining that these kinds of investigations need to be very thorough, Gretchen interrupts him saying that she deserves to go to jail because she let her do this stuff and wasn't even paying attention to a lot of it. which led the detective to point blank ask Gretchen how long Grace had been drinking for. She didn't even try to hem and haw with him about not knowing or just finding out that she was drinking today. She point blank told him probably like six months to a year. it is all lining up now. I'm sorry, what? How do you go from I don't know if she has drank to yeah, about six to twelve months she's been drinking a bottle of vodka a day. But we found all these liquor bottles in her room. Are you fecking kidding me? Hello? What do you mean? It's like you're part of the problem. she ain't a part of the problem, honey. She is the whole problem. I know. Do you have any other thoughts or reactions at this point? I mean It's lining up timeline wise of her pulling her out of school and having her do these online schools, and I guarantee her drinking got worse October, November. Mm-hmm. Duh. and it just kept getting worse and worse and worse. But I wanna know why she pulled her out of school. Do you have that answer? Eventually. Yeah. I mean because is like in my mind it's like she just wanted her daughter to be home with her, drinking and partying with her every day. Yeah. So it Yeah, it's it's a little half and half in there. You're you're on the right lines. Okay. This is j she's sixteen. She a what? At this point the detective asked Gretchen if Grace and her ever texted about drinking and the alcohol. And Gretchen pulled up their text message and said, Here you go. Go ahead and look. The first text was to Grace around 10 56 PM saying, Are you okay? With no text before this and no response from Grace after this. Okay. When asked why she was asking Grace list, Gretchen said, and I quote, probably to see if she was okay instead of getting my ass up and going to check on her. When asked if there is a reason she didn't want to go check on Grace, Gretchen responded with quote, I think I was scared. I was scared I was gonna find her really sick. Pause Pause Nay nay nay nay nay nay nay nay You said you said that she went checked on her at ten fifty something. Mm-hmm Also, if this I think I'm scared. I think you're an enabler and a dumbass. Go on. The detective pointed out that Gretchen had just checked on her a few minutes prior to sending that text. Why couldn't she go back in there? Gretchen I'm a fucking genius. Gretchen replied and I quote, I don't know. I should have bef because she didn't answer me. And I probably just fell asleep and passed out again. It's probably because she was so fucking drunk out of her head, she doesn't remember any of it. Okay. I'm calling it now. She was already dead. When pressed about how bad Grace's condition condition actually was, Gretchen dug her heels in, saying she was okay just throwing up, but she was scared that she had gotten worse, so she just kind of buried her head in the sand and went back to bed, which was stupid. No way. Her words, not mine. Detectives noticed that there were messages on Grace's iPad via the lock screen that weren't visible on Gretchen's phone. So they asked Gretchen for consent to take their phones and Grace's iPad. Grace was using her iPad in the bathroom because her phone was dead or broken, one of the two things. I can't remember which it was. But she would sometimes use her iPad if she couldn't use her phone. Which my child does too. I genuinely forget that my iPad gets text messages. So while signing over consent for the phones and iPads, Gretchen said, quote, Okay, I'm going to jail, end quote. When asked why she said that, quote, because you're gonna see it and be like, what did you do? End quote. What? When asked if there was more than what Gretchen told them, she responded probably for sure. And repeated that three times. My god, this woman is infuriating. I can't even begin to tell you how much of an understatement that was. What part? The infuriating part? Or the probably whatever she's saying? Both of those parts. Shit. Before we get into the text messages, let's go over Grace's autopsy. Forensic pathologist Don Holmes determined Grace's cause of death as aspiration pneumonia, citing chronic alcohol use as a significant contributing factor. Doctor Holmes explained further that the manner of death is natural because there's an increased risk of dying from chronic alcohol consumption related aspiration pneumonia, because alcohol consumption can affect the body in various ways, including decreasing gagging and coughing reflexes, decreased output by the salivary glands salvatin, those ones. I can't say the word saliva glands. Yeah, I can't say the plural of it. And decreased immune system function. Doctor Holmes said the evidence showed Grace died during a terminal episode of acute aspiration pneumonia. girl. Her toxicology report showed a BAC of point one percent, which is just above the legal driving limit. There were also microscopic findings of severe hepatic statosis and early hepatic fibrosis, which is basically excessive scarring on the liver as a result of chronic long-term inflammation often caused by fatty liver disease. viral hepatitis or alcohol abuse. I could've told you all that, girl. Yeah, I know. Just to sum that up for you all. A sixteen year old died from chronic drinking. How did Grace go from a normal high school kid to dying from chronic alcohol abuse in one year? Yeah, less than. I what surprised me the most about this was her BAC. Being that low? Yes. Thought it was gonna be a lot higher. Genuinely. Genuinely. I'm very, very shocked by it. You'll it'll make a little bit more sense as we go on. Will it? Okay. I mean, did she throw up? No, that would still be interval. She was throwing up, but you'll understand. Okay. Well, to answer the question of how did this happen in less than a year. Mm-hmm. We have to go to Grace's text messages. no, this is the part that's gonna piss me off the most. I know it. I know it. But I also fucking love text messages and Googles. I know you do. We haven't had a good Googler yet. We haven't. In the Lindsey Clancy case, there's a lot of good Googles. Yeah, there is. I'm gonna warn you right now, you're about to get mad mad. And because I still cannot believe what I actually read in this affidavit. I'm not gonna read all the text to you because there is a lot, but I do wanna walk you through how this progressed. According to a friend and classmate of Grace, Grace had begun drinking occasionally and for fun, saying it helped with her anxiety. And this was about early twenty twenty five. But by the spring she said that Grace was drinking to the point of being sick. She witnessed Grace and Gretchen once using a sheet and a backpack to sneak alcohol in through Grace's second story bedroom window. So Mom was outside and put the alcohol or whatever in the backpack and Grace lifted it up to her room so that John wouldn't know about this. fuck off. I was so confused for a second. That apparently one time John caught Grace with a bottle of vodka and took it away. This friend said Grace's drinking really became a problem, eventually leading to them no longer being able to hang out and only talking on the phone. The last time she saw Grace in person was Halloween weekend of twenty twenty five. But over the next months, Grace would text her about needing help and wanting to stop drinking and how she needs to detox, but her mom won't help her. The weeks and months leading up to Grace's death, she told this friend that the fights between her and her mom were getting physical and she didn't want her mom to get in trouble, but she was really scared that she was going to die. That she was going to die? Grace herself was telling her friend she was scared she was gonna die. Most of Grace and Gretchen's text conversations were about their drinking and How to get it, when to get it, how to hide it, and how bad their problem was. So they were self-aware. Extremely. In November, Gretchen went out of town for a few days. Grace texted Gretchen to order her vodski, as we like to call it. Vodski? Instead of Vodka? Vodski. Ew. But it wasn't just a simple task. They had to navigate John, her dad being at the house. trying to plan the delivery while he was out, they s they successfully did it until John found the bottle and took it away. Then Grace started freaking out, saying that we're in trouble. and now I'm gonna have to be sick all day and night until you get home. Then they began devising a plan to find the vodka he hid while he was out at the store. Gretchen even went as far as to remind Grace to empty the bottle out and fill it with water. So he wouldn't know she found it. Yeah. Then John finds out again and tells Gretchen she needs to go to rehab. Grace tells her mom that she's overreacting and it's fine. Gretchen says, No, this can't go on. We need to slowly get off of it. He knows you're drinking. And Grace responds, Yeah, but he doesn't know how much. You need to relax. Then Gretchen says, Yeah, but if he finds all those bottles, we are fucked, telling her we need to get rid of them when he's not around. Then an hour later, Grace asks Gretchen if she can order her vodski while on the plane, and Gretchen initially refuses, saying you're going to be caught, but eventually complies and orders it to the house for Grace. By January, Grace was having a hard time moving around, going to the bathroom, and she could barely eat. Getting out of bed was hard for her to do. She would text Gretchen for help getting water, and Gretchen would ignore her. Then Grace would ask her for help pouring some vodka, and Gretchen would reply, If you can't do it yourself, you don't need any. And if you would eat, you wouldn't be sick. Grace would just reply, I'm sorry. She constantly told Gretchen how sick she was and that her whole body hurt, and Gretchen would tell her, If you can get up and go to the bathroom, you can pour your own drink. What the fuck? Their texts were pretty much twenty four seven. So at all hours of the night Grace would be texting or calling out for her mom either because she was so sick and needed help or too weak to move, but needed the vodka to feel better. Gretchen's responses to Grace seemed to bounce between having some care to having no care for Grace and making her seem like an inconvenience. She would frequently tell Grace she needs to stop drinking, she is scaring her, but at the same time would say things like, Fine, I'll just lose my job, or you're keeping me up with your barfing. Don't mind me, I have a job, I'm going insane, and I fucked up my kid as well. Sleep good tonight. Telling her things like You can't scream at me because then Dad gets suspicious, telling Grace that she needs to not leave puke and blood in the bathroom for him to find, stop being sloppy and spilling vodka in the kitchen. And Grace always responded with I'm sorry, don't be mad. Every time it was I'm so sorry, don't be mad at me, Mom, I'm sorry, talk to me, quit ignoring me. Help me. But the conversations always end or take a turn to Gretchen ordering more vodka and helping Grace make a drink. Detectives pulled a specific conversation from January that showed their communication from January to March when Grace died. At this point, Grace is having a hard time eating. She's throwing up constantly. And while ordering more alcohol for Grace, Gretchen tells Grace that she is scaring her and this needs to stop. Over a three hour period, Gretchen sends the following text to Grace, and Grace doesn't respond to any of them. Not sure why you don't care, but this is really bad. Keep on, I'll be going to jail. And you will have to be on dialysis for your kidneys. Why won't you listen? Puking blood is a really bad thing. You have to face reality. I can't lose you. Please let me know you're okay. I can't handle this. We are so fucked. The carpet is fucked in that bathroom. Not sure I can clean it. I'm ready to run away I can't. You'll be okay. I'm sorry, just to r rephrase, Gretchen is messaging Grace all of this. Okay. You'll be okay. I hope. Gonna lay down now. If you need me, come get me. Was up all night, need to lay down. Er was you up all night, need to lay down. Get me if you need me in my room. I am so scared. I am horrible. Clearly Gretchen is home while texting her thus. Eventually Grace responds after three hours of this asking for a wet towel. Gretchen asks if she is okay. But for the next thirty-six hours, Grace only responds here or there with text that can only be described as garbled letters. I am so fucking confused. I am so she's in the house Go to her Gretchen responded to these jarbled messages with things like barfing up cups of blood not good Babe I am scared and I don't want to have to take you into the hospital but what is happening is dangerous. If you puke up blood we are in trouble. Understand, please let me know you're okay. I can't anymore. I'm killing you. We have to do something and I am going to jail. Hard for me to sleep 'cause I am so scared. You wouldn't do this to your child. I'm a fucking disaster. Tried to be the cool mom and fucked up. It's child abuse and dad is going to put me in jail where I should be. I'm sorry, I'm not patient and a bad mom, but I am losing my mind. I'm scared of losing you. I need to put you in rehab. I obviously am not able to help. If you can't if you can't get up to pee, get food or drink, and puke blood, we aren't going to make it. We need help. This isn't working. I'm going to lose you. This was in January, right? This was from January. Okay. This is in January, but like it their communication from January to March kind of looks like this. Eventually Grace seemed to recover from this really sick bout. She stopped throwing up blood and asked Gretchen for weed so she could eat. But still, most of their conversations revolved around ordering vodski and trying to get Grace to keep food down. By February, Grace was complaining of chest pains and not being able to eat without vomiting. Gretchen's advice was usually you need to cut back on the vodka. Eventually Grace began wearing diapers because she couldn't make it to the bathroom. She began throwing up blood again, and once again it was hard for her to get up and move around. Starting march fourth, Grace began texting Gretchen that she was in so much pain and that she can't keep doing this, asking Gretchen to do something. Gretchen says, What do you want me to do? Help you not feel sick? Grace says that she hates that she does this, and Gretchen says they will figure it out. Then immediately they begin discussing ordering more vodka because they will run out if they don't. An hour after this, Grace texts that she is in so much pain. Gretchen asks if she took Advil or smoked weed. Grace tells her I don't want to do this and begs her to take her to the hospital, telling her that if she's going to do this to her, she needs to take her to a hospital. Gretchen just says, Then why did you just tell me to get more? I mean okay. yeah, call Hold on. yeah Grace says I'm going to die. I can't do this anymore. Call nine one one. Gretchen responded with seriously? Grace says, I don't know what else to do. Gretchen replies, You're going to breathe and stop drinking. Are you throwing up? Grace says, You won't do anything. I'm in so much pain. Call nine one one yourself. She had a phone. I I'm not sure I'm not trying to victim blame. I'm genuinely not. No, and at the same time. But also think about being a teenager and like you know how like when you're a teenager, even my daughter's like this and like she she'll hurt her arm and she'll be like, Mom, I need an x ray right now. I'm like, No, you don't. Yes it you don't even love me. You don't even care about me. I need an x ray right now. You know how dramatic you are when anything's wrong with you and you think you're dying and like dramatic now what he means. You know what mean? But she's begging her mom, but you also have to understand every time She asked her mom about a hospital. Her mom returns with I'm going to jail. This is child abuse. I will get in trouble. She's even telling her friend about how she's scared her mom's gonna get in trouble. Like she wants help, but she doesn't want her mom to go to jail and get in trouble. So I understand, but at the same time you can feel yourself dying. But she's also sixteen and doesn't realize that you know what I mean? Like I don't think she realized that she really was going to die. Yeah. Or maybe she did, but like being so scared of your dad finding out or your mom getting in trouble or you know, she she was this sick in January and she came back out of it. So like what's the difference of her being this sick again now? Yeah. I mean, I get it. I understand where you're coming from. It was a big thought that I had as well. Yeah. We're also twice her age. Yes. And I don't know. Yeah. I know it I see what you're saying. I genuinely do. And I again I'm not trying to dictate it. And her and she hasn't been eating. She may have also have been in the thought process 'cause a lot of teenagers do this, like, I'm gonna get in trouble. Yes. And her mom's probably spun that to her as well, that like you can get in trouble for this too. And yeah. And like I can also see she hasn't ate in days. Yeah. She had a seizure. She is obviously it's sh we're getting drunk so fast 'cause there's nothing in our body. Yeah. We're not in a state of mind to think clear enough to do that ourselves. Like she's Just reaching out for her like her I don't know why she didn't go get her dad. Obviously there's zero respect for her dad out of Grace if you read more you've already seen that a little bit in here. Yeah. So the next day, Grace had an accident in bed. Gretchen then checks that she is wearing a diaper and says she has more if she needs them. Grace tells her that she wasn't wearing a diaper and she is so sick, and Gretchen just says, Well, no food and drinking isn't the answer. When Grace says she tried to gag down some yogurt, Gretchen just tells her, Okay, well, then I guess you can puke and be sick. What a bitch. Which causes Grace to apologize over and over again, begging Gretchen not to be mad at her. Gretchen just says she's mad at a lot of things. And Grace says she's still so sick. And Gretchen says, you will be until you eat. That's how it goes. I know firsthand. Yeah what late night March seventh into the early hours of March ninth, so the last twenty four hours of Grace's life. She stayed March seventh and Yeah, so late night March seventh. So like just before midnight on the seventh. Okay. And to the early hours of March ninth. So the literally the last twenty four hours of her life. Got it, gotta gotta look like this. She was in the bathroom unable to walk. Gretchen told her she wasn't doing this all night, and if she can't walk, then she needs to crawl, and she doesn't need more booze. She was begging Gretchen for vodka so she could feel better. Gretchen kept telling her, If you drink more, you will get sick. Grace just keeps saying please over and over. Gretchen says that she is so tired of this, and Grace needs to help her fucking self before telling her good luck and that she's turning off her phone. Around four AM, Grace texted Gretchen that she is sorry and to please bring her vodka next time she comes into her room. Grace and Gretchen's final communication was the following. At 9 52 PM on March 8th, Gretchen texts Grace, doing okay? Grace responds PL, PL, PL, please. That's the whole word. And that is the last text that Grace sent. Gretchen sent the following messages over the next hour. You are already screwed up. Come here. Can you even stand up? If you can't walk in here, you don't need more. Don't scream at me during the night, you can come in here. Understand? You scream, Dad will hear. Answer me. Answer me. Answer me. Answer me. Do you understand? Do not yell for me. Come in here. And then that last text at nine fifty six asking if you okay? That's the the text that the police got to see. And she deleted all those other ones? She deleted everything before it. So that is definitely very different from what Gretchen was portraying to detectives the morning that Grace died. Is that what she was fucking doing when she had herself locked in her damn room? Deleting all the text messages. Yeah. Except for that very last one. Are you okay? That's crazy. Okay. How many of these messages were deleted from her phone? Every single message in her phone between her and Grace except for that ten fifty six PM text that said you okay? question mark. Are you serious? Right. I'm glad the cops saw the iPad in the bathroom and on the lock screen was all those other text messages, and then the detectives holding Gretchen's phone going Well there's a difference. Yeah. That's fucking wild. Okay. But that's a very, very different version of events than what she talked about to begin with. Yes, she yes. Yep. Okay. Do you have any thoughts about the dad? I think dad was in denial. I don't think anyone could be as oblivious or stupid as this dad other than Kevin Frankie, but here we are. Like, I never thought we could top Kevin Frankie in my whole freaking life. Yeah. Like, how did he not notice all this and keep believing Gretchen's lies? Even when he had proof in front of him. I mean, he also drank, so I don't know if he was an alcoholic and just kept himself in the basement or clueless in your own house. I mean, do you think that Again, he was just in denial and there's I anyone who is in my life that I spend frequent amount of time with, I know if they've had a single sip of a fucking alcoholic drink. Yeah. There's no way that he didn't know. There's no fucking way. Like I'm not just I I want more on that dynamic. I I I I wonder if he knew he just didn't know how bad it was, but like how do you not know how bad it is? Yeah. When like your daughter's literally wearing diapers and of course the cops that this the whole house had a very strong smell of urine to it. Yeah. There's no way. Which now makes sense more for Yeah. I just I don't know. we also don't know what their marriage was, complete breakdown, if this was like a separation they had and they truly did live separate lives. Cause like I know people who've gone through separations while they live in the same house. They just move into different rooms and live their own lives. Another theory I kind of have working in my cabeza up here as well is maybe he moved down into the basement. knowing what was happening and was like, I'm not gonna be fucking part of this. Or before it happened. Yeah. So he wasn't like as approved of all of this happening. Or hear me out. He moved down into the basement. She's alone and she's sad. So she pulls her daughter out of school to spend all the time with her because she doesn't want to be alone and sad anymore. And so she brainwashed her fucking daughter to spend all this time with her and be like, here's alcohol because I'm a cool mom. She's drunk all the time. Yeah. So we're not having a reality of our kid also being drunk all the time and how serious this is. You know what I mean? It just spiraled it. It's disgusting. And it just spiraled. And I'm not making excuses. We're not saying it's okay. It's just we have to our brains are logically trying to put how we get here because yeah, this is disgusting. So I didn't think Gretchen could piss me off more than she already had. But then I found out the following. Jackie. So you remember how Gretchen refused to take Grace to the hospital or to rehab so she could get help, even though Grace was begging and pleading for her too? Yes, I'm aware. Yeah, so the same day that Grace died, Gretchen took herself to the hospital where she fucking spent a few days before checking into rehab on March 16th. You're fucking lying. No. So after she spoke to the police and everything, she's just like to the hospital I go, 'cause I'm not gonna be next. Are you fucking kidding me? No. It's fucking the way I almost threw my computer when I read that. The word I wanna scream right now starts with a C and I'm not gonna say it on camera just to be safe. No, but we'll see you next Tuesday for our next new deep dive. On May fifteenth, fifty five year old Gretchen Lee and Ryan. was arrested on second degree murder charges in relation to the death of her daughter, sixteen year old Grace Ryan. And she is being held on a five hundred thousand cash only bond. I'm sorry. Five hundred thousand dollar cash bond? Mm-hmm. She is she got bonded. No, she's being held on a five hundred thousand Dollar cash bond. Yeah. Like cash only bond. Yeah. That's what she's being held on. Okay. Her first court appearance in June, Gretchen's attorney asked for her bond to be reduced, citing that she wasn't a flight risk and that she had been sober since March ninth, the day that Grace died, and that she regularly attends AA meetings. The judge rejected this, claiming she is a flight risk. The facts of this case are as bad as they can be, and there is very little incentive for Gretchen to return to court considering the lengthy sentence she is facing if convicted. Period. The judge is basically like nah bitch, nah. Period. Gretchen seemed absolutely shocked by this ruling and began crying. She will remain in the Jefferson County Jail until her next hearing and most likely her trial. Good. That is all I have before we get into our victim and justice So what are your thoughts? Other than like what you've already given, like This okay, I need you always to know, this episode took me an entire month to write because I read this affidavit and then immediately proceeded to shut down for some reason. and it was just so hard to get through writing this because Like I don't it's I can do kids. I can do kids all day long, but somehow stuff like this just I Just how can a mom have so much disregard for their child's life? Yeah, man. To watch this, like It's just hard. Yeah. I'm I don't know. I have thoughts on it, but all I'm gonna say 'cause I feel like I've had a lot of thoughts and a lot of faces if you're watching on YouTube. Have fun with that. I dissociated a lot 'cause I'm just so angry. Yeah. I'm so mad. And this was literally happening in our backyard. Yeah. I'm furious. And I'm not gonna lie to you, I don't want to play devil's advocate for the dad. No. There's no fucking way that you didn't notice something. There's no fucking way. I really want to know what his interview of detectives was because obviously his interview with detectives had to be Grossly different than Gretchen's interview because he's not being held responsible or accountable in any way, shape, or form in this. I also want to see his text messages. Yes. Fuck yes. I guarantee they probably confiscated his phone. They probably subpoenaed that shit. with the house, I'm sure, with the searches, everything like that. I guarantee some shit's gonna come out at trial. Yeah. And I don't know if it's going to help him. The judge's wording kind of made it seem like there wasn't really gonna be a plea deal offered in this. Period. I don't think that judge is going to allow a plea deal to come onto the table with the way that she was like, and your eventual trial. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I know the attorneys might press for it, especially because of how frequently she kept being like, I'm going to jail, I'm gonna die, blah blah blah. Like I guarantee they're gonna try to press for a plea a plea deal. I hope they don't give her a plea deal on this. No, I I I want her to be fully ex I I want I want the sentence that this deserves. Like this is I mean, do you talk about what counts are in what she's getting charged with? She's literally charged with second degree murder. Second degree? Okay. I'm nervous that if there is a plea deal, it's gonna be involuntary manslaughter. But I also wonder if there could actually be like a child endangerment or something like that as well. I'm wondering if we are gonna see more charges because we we just have this, we don't have her indicted by a grand jury er we have the after it, we have her arraigned. Yeah. We have that. I don't think this will go to grand jury at this point. Like I don't know if we need an indictment on her charges. Or if we're just gonna go. Yeah. Honestly, I'm just fucking pissed. I'm so mad. Yeah. Like at everyone involved. The three of them. I'm even mad at Grace. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be that way. No, no, no. She was a child. I know. I know. I'm And she was fifty she was sixteen when she died. She was fifteen when this started happening. So her birthday's in October. So she was fifteen when this started happening. Think about somebody a couple years older than Nicole. Girl You know what I mean? Like having the wherewithal and the thought and like knowing seriously that like you can die from this and th like you didn't know that in high school. Like yeah, you could die from a bender or like alcohol poisoning, but like at the worst she probably thought she had alcohol poisoning. You know what I mean? Or at the worst she thought that if she was bad enough her mom would take her. She didn't think it was going to be this. No. And she had come out of something this bad once. She thought it was gonna happen again. So it also clicks to me why her BAC was so low as well. 'Cause she could barely drink anything. Like we were at the point where she was shutting down. In a sense, her she kinda died of starvation. I mean, to a point. Her body was literally shutting itself down because she one couldn't hold down food. I guarantee she wasn't getting any fucking water. and then whatever she was throwing up was whatever was left in her body. So bile Yeah. Stomach acid. Like everything Like her body was shutting down. It was literally shutting down. Which also messes with your brain and then we're adding alcohol to it. She couldn't think in a straight line enough. I mean, look at her very last text message. I can tell you I had the stomach flu. god, I don't even remember what it was. It was br re s recently. It was so funky I couldn't function. I could not function I couldn't do anything. And think about like And that was just from I don't even know what it was from, but it was awful. And think about being a teenager And knowing that like your parents because she's had a good relationship with her parents and her mom until this point and trust them to help. And I know her mom hasn't been helping her, but like when you're a teenager, you eventually you believe that your parents are gonna s you know what I mean? Like I I only fault her to a point for not calling nine one one herself because I as a teenager, how seriously do you think you're gonna die? And you have to think about what her brain capacity was at that point, especially after having that seizure. Yep, yep, yep. I could say before that seizure Did we get it confirmed that she had a seizure? I mean, Gretchen was very consistent on that part of the story. There are you know, there's a little truth and all the lies, but she did have very anchor points that did stay consistent and did match text messages. So the seizure didn't like why would you lie about her having a seizure the night before she didn't actually have one? To make it seem better. But like her falling and hearing that noise is still consistently at the same time. It's valid. As she like goes to the affidavit and like keeps going through it all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trust me guys, I I condensed her interview down because there was a lot. She literally looked at me and was You need to go read the affidavit after this. I'm like, okay. I don't know. I'm just furious and I cannot fucking wait for this trial. Yeah. My god, it's gonna be infuriating. Yeah. Go on. So normally I write the all about our victim part by piecing together bits and pieces that I find out. But Grace's own family put it far better than I think I ever could. So I'm gonna read directly from them. What family member? Like her so her aunts and her uncles and her cousins again and 'cause she had an extended family here. Wonderful. And her friends. And so these things are statements that have been made to news publications or there's actually a lot, a lot of people who wrote in her obituary. Love that on online. Love that. and I'm not talking like a little sentence of like, I missed you or I remember being in fifth grade with you. I'm talking paragraphs. Hell yeah. So Grace expressed an interest in art and music from an early age and carried it throughout her entire life. She enjoyed attending church, spending time with her friends, and taking care of her pets. Her hobbies included creating crafts, drawings and paintings in her spare time, and she showed an immense talent with everything she created. Grace aspired to become a social worker one day. She wanted to help other people, and especially vulnerable people. Which is why I think it's just so sad what happened to her. Like This she was literally at her most vulnerable and and wasn't helped. And wanted to help people like herself. Yeah. And she had that desire before the situation even happened to herself, which is a little wild. Mm-hmm. Even though Grace was taken from us much too soon, she was able to teach us so much in such a short amount of time. Mainly empathy and compassion. Grace is survived by her brothers Jacob and Evan, her grandparents, and many aunts, uncles, cousins, and friends. And her friends just had so many memories of Goofing around with her in art class, or I have a picture in here of her and her friends dressing up as South Park characters for Halloween. Amazing. And she just she had such a love for life, which is what I think makes it so much more infuriating that this decline happened so fast. Like her mom was such a big enabler, I think it is what you said. Like, I'm lonely. I want somebody to do this, so you're gonna I'm gonna be the cool mom and you're gonna drink with me and hang out with me all the time. Yeah. And just That's so fucked up. Yeah it is. So normally this is where I ask y'all if we got justice for Grace. But I think we can all agree that justice is loading. We have a judge who is taking this very seriously and not letting Gretchen out on bond while awaiting trial, and that is very hopeful. Period. I just hope we don't get a plea deal like we've talked about. that lets her off easy. Grace deserves so much more than that. So much more than that. Yes, she does. So if you or someone you know is struggling with alcohol abuse, there is help out there. You can call 888-692-9182. They are available 24-7. There's also a chat option online at American Addiction Centers.org. also you can reach out to us. We have resources on our page. We can also help point you in the right directions if you don't know where to start or you don't want to start on one of those platforms. Yep. we are definitely gonna be following this case closely for updates. Hell yeah. she did just have a hearing like her bond hearing was in just recently within the past few weeks in August. we don't have a date for her next hearing yet. But it should be within the next few months. we'll definitely have that posted when we do find out about that. but yeah, that's all I got for today. Yeah, I'm sorry to ruin y'all's day with that one. But Yeah, yikes, yikks, yx, yikes. I'm gonna sit in silence for a while after you leave. Okay. I'm probably gonna go read the affidavit. I'm not gonna lie to you. That one ended up being way more than I thought it was. I thought that like because a lot of different news stations had the affidavit and the same little bit was the same text pieces and the same bit was just being regurgitated everywhere. And I was like, There's more to this and I what I had written out before I got that affidavit, I like deleted all of it. I like nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. Here's So Check on your people, man. Be nosy. Get into your family's business. Be weird about it. All right? Just be weird about it at this point because we could be out here saving lives. Yeah. Alright, we do have our live show at Painting with a Twist coming up. Yeah we do. We are very excited. October 30th. Yeah. That is the day before Halloween, y'all. So you know that means. You have like a month and a half currently. Costumes. First of all, you need to go buy your ticket. Link is below. It's candlemaking. tickets are forty dollars. And that includes all your candle making activities. Mm-hmm. I have one of their candles. You get to choose what scent that you have. And add-ins and all of it. You can choose multiple scents. They're pretty awesome. They burn really nice too. So yeah. So we're gonna do that. We're gonna do a costume contest because hello, Halloween is Sam's absolute favorite. And we need to do that. It's true. We have to. We're going to. Yeah. So make sure you get your tickets. They are gonna be linked below. And we will have them all over our socials. We cannot wait to see you guys there. Let's sell out painting with a twist again. Y'all always do, and we love it. Yes. anything else we have going on right now? Well, I don't know. I don't think so. I think that's kind of it. You know the you the drill. Like, follow, subscribe everywhere. Get on YouTube. We are almost to 500 followers. If we're not at 500 followers while you're listening to this right now, go be that five hundred, that four ninety nine, that four ninety eight. If we're over five hundred, guess what? Still go do it. Do it anyway. It's free ninety nine. Okay. And you guys don't realize how much it genuinely helps us and helps the podcast. Yeah. To like even again, like she said, if you don't listen on those platforms, just go follow us anyway. Because it genuinely helps us to be able to continue to do this and come at you guys every single week. Yeah. And we've got some pretty cool things in the works for you guys. Bro. So yeah. Also, if any of y'all are social media savvy. Savvy out there. Please hit us. Or have time to Or have time. If you have like three or four hours a week that you would love to dedicate freely to us because we don't even make money. So I don't know how you gonna make money. But if you help us with this, we could all start making money. we just need some help with some editing. TikTok clips, like we already have the clips for you. We do need them edited and posted out. Yeah. And social media posts for different things. It it would be so beautiful if I could just like shoot off a text and be like, Hey, can you make these posts for this week? Or hey, can you make this post? It'd be so beautiful. It would be awesome. Genuinely would. Our lives are just crazy. doing this plus our daytime jobs. It's like we have two full time jobs. She also has a family on top of it. I have health issues going on, so I we just we don't got time to do And we have live shows and it's just, you know, we're we're trying to bring it all to you guys, but we would love more help. So And we don't wanna we're not gonna stop this. We love doing this genuinely. We just need help. We just need a little bit of help so we don't get the burnout. Yeah, pretty much. yeah. So alright, that's all I got. Do we need to add anything else? No, ma'am. See you next Tuesday for an all new deep dive. it's a good one. It really is. we will catch you guys next Tuesday for an all new episode. Stop killing each other. Lock your damn doors. Stop believing your friends' places. Okay. Love you. Bye.