Andy: Brian, welcome to the bearded dangler. Thanks very much for coming on the podcast, Brian Johnson: Welcome, glad to be here. Andy: Good. So, Brian Johnson, you have been in search and rescue for many a year. You're actually still in search and rescue, which, you're ripe old age. You're doing extremely well. Still fit and healthy, still flying. Brian Johnson: Lost luck. Andy: Yeah, okay. So we're gonna go through your life and your career and I want to hear all the stories like you've got nothing to hold back on. Like I said, you're still flying so you might still want to keep that salary coming in but you don't need to lose a license yet. Brian Johnson: Well, to be honest, I got home from Guyana two weeks ago and as it stands at the moment, I'm not going back because they were working with four hoist stops but they've decided to go to three. And I was always wanting to finish by the end of this year anyway, by November time. Because at the end of the Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: day, that makes me 71 and a half. So, you know what I mean? It's probably time to... bite your bottom lip and go, right, that's enough. And yet even, yeah, Andy: take my hang up the the alpha. Brian Johnson: yeah, even on the day that I was coming home speaking to Greg, he said, well, you know, there's maybe another contract coming up in November. Would you come back? And I just went, So, but then again, from my own point of view, I suppose in many ways, you just take it month and month on, do you know what I mean? in terms of how you're feeling and so on and so forth. But yeah, I mean as it stands at the moment, yes, I'd go back and do another two or three rotations because it's a month on, month off. I enjoy the work, so why not? Andy: all that matters isn't it's like if you're actually enjoying the flying, enjoying the job, enjoying the training like it's very rare you get a job like that that you just want to keep on going and going so you stick with it. Brian Johnson: Well, never been, I haven't worked a day in my life really since I started flying Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: in May 1976 because I've never classed it as work because I enjoy it that much. know, Andy: Yeah. What year was that again that you started flying? Brian Johnson: I know from your text yesterday, it was just before you were born. In fact, one of the reasons that when I left the Navy, I was now flying with pilots who weren't born when I started flying. So, you know, it's sometimes then time to think about the fact that maybe you might be in the wrong job. But as will come out in the story, I mean, in terms of the fact of leaving the Navy, supposedly at 50, but going slightly earlier at 48 and a half, I had no intention or likelihood of ever flying again because I had no idea what I was going to do. And Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: then it was only when you start to meet people and say, we don't seem to have received your CV and so on and so forth. And that's because I never thought about sending you a CV. And then all of a sudden, know, yeah, Andy: What's the CV? Brian Johnson: and that was in that was in what 2003 and here we are in 2026 and this is me coming towards the end of my supposed aviation career. So I have another 23 years of stuff. You know, which is kind of pinch worthy, really, you know, sometimes you got to sit there and give it the all, you know, oh, yeah, this has Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: gone on and on and on. And even in fact, when we set up together, at Stonoy. When I left there and came back to the Isle of Man, because my wife wanted us to move back here, which is fine because she followed me around for 25 years, it was her turn to be where she wanted to be with her mum here and everything. And I was only home two or three weeks and then the phone started to ring again and, you fancy doing this? Could you come and do this? And yeah. And then it goes on again. So there we are. Andy: Yeah, well mate with the amount of experience and knowledge that you've got in that that massive brain of yours like you can just pick up lines and text with the manuals like nobody else I've ever met maybe one other person tricky day and he was he had the brain an absolute planet Brian Johnson: Yeah, yeah. Well, I I spent years in Naval Flying Standards Flight with Trickey and yeah, he is definitely a one-off. I mean, I did big work with him and everything and it was amazing. could go, because he has a photographic memory, he reads an aircrew manual once and I mean, I've sat in meetings with him where even an expert on radar has turned around and said something and he's gone... No, that's not right. The answer to that is 151. And if you look in manual, such and such, paragraphs, such and such, line four, and while he's talking about it, because he's chairing the meeting, he's putting all this up on his computer, and there it is, 151. And then the world just stopped, you know what mean? So... Andy: Yeah, it's nuts. Setting up meetings with him was awe-inspiring. And just yourself as well, like how you just picked up stuff from the manual, but that's just decades of experience that you've got there as well. Brian Johnson: Well, I think it also helps in the fact that when you've had jobs where you've got to refer to manuals, what did teach me a lot and especially going forward in the Navy, I was always interested in knowing more and more and more about the job. But when I left and then I got involved in bid work and you know, I don't think a lot of people appreciate the fact that you buy a helicopter off the internet. You know, in terms of the fact that Maybe so much you don't buy the helicopter off the internet, but you buy the equipment you put in it off the internet. Because Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: like if you take the contract, I've been involved in about four or five successful SAR bids. But the first one is always the one that sticks because that was the one that you saw every face. I was lucky enough in the fact that somebody asked me if I wanted to be involved in the bid. Yes, because I was in Ireland. I'd just left the Navy. and was sitting at Waterford, which was a very quiet star base, John Patterson, the then Chief Crewman Standards in Ireland, said to me, look, I'm too busy to do this. Would you like to do it? Because I know you're bored. I said, yeah. So of course, when we won the bid, by that stage, he'd resigned in Ireland. I'd become the Chief Crewman Standards, but was then asked if I wanted to pass it on to somebody else. And I said, no, no, not really. I'd rather keep it. try and do both and if it gets too much, Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: well, yeah, I'll my hands up. And then we won that bid and of course my reward, my prize was an interview and then the job as the Chief Crewman Standards in the UK with what was then the four Bristow bases, know, Leon, Stolen, Portland, Stumbura and Stolenaway. And Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: of course then when you're procuring and you're doing the bid work for the aircraft, you're looking at well what Lots of engineers involved. Look, Brian, you can have a hoist that travels at 1,000 feet a minute. What do want one of for? Because I've Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: got to lower it at that speed, same as you raise. And then that's just a quick example of how they then get involved in what lighting system do you want, what's underneath the aircraft, how you're laying the cabin out. And then, of course, you're flying backwards and forwards to Sikorsky and doing all that. the first iteration of the 92 for SAR in the UK. was primarily designed by me and some other people, you know, with not really a great deal of help from Sikorsky because the first time I went to Sikorsky, they sat there and went, right, okay, so you're do star then, we'll take you down and we'll show you the aircraft. Now when I say show me the aircraft, if you imagine your days of the S92 and you go Andy: Hmm. Brian Johnson: into a hangout and there's a green square in there, which is the center part of the aircraft, the cabin area, there's no cockpit, there's no tail, there's no. There's no engines or gearbox on the top and it's just green. The green aircraft as they called it. And then we went from there. So, Andy: Wow. Brian Johnson: and of course the good thing about all that is that one, you're involved in the bid, then you win the bid, then you've got to execute the bid, then you've got to run the contract. and then I left two years early because I would have been too paid in once Bristol's got the contract back to Leon Solon, which is not where I wanted to be. Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: which is why I then went to Brunei. But that's another story. So I was involved in the beginning, the middle and virtually the end. So it was a good experience. Andy: Yeah, it definitely teaches you a lot. You must have learned so much from going through all that process of like how to win the bids, but also then thinking about what aircraft is best in what location, how to fit those aircraft out, what the jobs are going to be doing. It's like what a wealth of knowledge and experience you draw from that. Brian Johnson: But to be fair, the Coast Guard kind of already decided that. mean, this is the thing why you buy stuff off the internet, because you're taking a 61 out of service, was it, the first SIR one went into service the 1st of April, 1964. And you're replacing that in 2004, so you're 40 years on. They want new technology. You're going to win the contract by giving them new technology. The bigger base is up north with the longer range. The Coast Guard wanted the S92 and they wanted the 139 on the southern basis. So the kind of decision of where they went and how they were going to be utilized was kind of already done. just use car salesman, you fit the bill. I want this car, costs this much. I want it to be able to do this. You provide that and that's how you win the contract really. And money, obviously. Andy: Give them what they Brian Johnson: Yeah, give them what you want and try and do it at a realistic price. So, excuse me. Yeah, so... Andy: Yeah. Well, we've jumped slightly ahead in your career, but that's a really good Brian Johnson: Just a little bit, Andy: introduction as to like some of the stuff that you've been involved in during your time with an aviation. But let's go right back to the beginning. So who's Brian Johnson? Where did you grow up? Like, what is your life up to the point of joining the Navy? Brian Johnson: Okay, well, I come from a little village in Fife called Markinch, which just so happens to have had a new town called Glenrothes built next to it. One of the five Scottish new towns, know, Glenrothes, Livingston, Irvine, all these places. And I Andy: I'm Bernold. Brian Johnson: think I was, yeah, think, yeah, exactly, yeah. You know, it was Andy: you Brian Johnson: quite strange. I could do a good comparison because when I was based at Presswick with Irvine just up the road, I could see how a new town shouldn't be, whereas the new town that I was growing up next to, they seemed to embrace a lot of things like they created their own Silicon Valley and stuff like that. So they were heavily, and even if you were in London on the underground, there was adverts for Glenrothes in the underground about people Andy: What? Brian Johnson: doing computer stuff and engineering and things. whoever was doing that deserves a bit of a pat on the back. But having said that, it was the overspill for Glasgow. So you can imagine what My secondary school was like, we had a panda car sitting in the playground from eight till four most days. There was always lots of things going on. And of course in those days, again showing your age, you could leave school at 15. So when Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: I went there to start with, I I went to primary school in my local village. I then went to O'Community Junior High School for my O levels and stuff like that. And of course in those days, everything was predicated by what score you got in your 11 plus. So if you were in an AL, it means you were going to go and do highers. If you were going to do in the AA, you were going to go whole levels. And if you were below that, as Billy Connolly used to say, you were in the stupid but savables. you left school at 15. So when all these people who were there, when I got there, which made it quite a rough place to be, they all left at 15 and then the school became a little bit more grown up. So the last year was the best year to be there, even though it was the year you did your O levels. But I was always intending to, it was a technical school that I went to. So all your O levels were based on engineering, drawing, applied mechanics, arithmetic, maths, and so on and so forth. And most people left and went to a thing in Kirkcaldy called Oreo Road, which was to then learn to be a fitter and turner and go and spend the rest of your known life. the next how many years you were ever given, doing sort of fitting and turning. that what even though I was accepted for Oriel Road and did the interviews and everything, I didn't want to go. I wanted to join the Royal Marines, but my mother wouldn't let Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: me. My mother wouldn't let me because and of course because I was 16 when I wanted to join, I needed her permission. And she wouldn't Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: give me it simply because of the fact she didn't want me to go to Northern Ireland and get shot. Andy: Well, that was a little bit heavy at that time, wasn't it? Brian Johnson: Yeah, and that was her words, not mine. She was from Inverness. My dad was Canadian. He was a lumberjack and I'm okay and all that sort of stuff, which is normally what people come back to you with. But he came over during the war and met my mom and the rest of it was their life, you know what I mean? then I joined the... Yeah, Andy: Is that where you got your height and your build from then, your dad? Brian Johnson: he was a big lad. My mom was only five foot five, so... she was the best protected person in the village we lived in because you know he was quite in fact it's actually written on his gravestone Big Jim because that's what everyone in the Andy: Tim. Brian Johnson: village called a Big Jim and so I joined the Navy when I was 16 years and four months old as a naval air mechanic well in actual fact as a junior naval air mechanic second-class airframes and engines Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: And then strangely enough then I went to do my training in Daedalus. You go to Andy: Everybody? Brian Johnson: HMS Rally first, which is Plymouth, where you do your new entry six weeks, your square bashing. I then went to Daedalus, which was in Leon Solent. And in actual fact, strangely enough, you look later in life, if you looked at my office window at Leon Solent when I was there as the Chief Training Standard, you could see Swanhanger. which is where I learned how to wire lock and what hydraulic fluid was and what oil extreme pressure was, cetera, et And Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: then strangely enough, my first introduction to do with aviation was on that course because they got us to marshal a helicopter from Lee's SAR flight. And then they took us for a flight in it. And the two crewmen in the back was a guy called Eddie Hughes, who I later ran field gone with in 79. And Billy Deacon, who was the song? Andy: All right. Brian Johnson: Bless his heart. Andy: bless his heart. Yeah. Brian Johnson: So that was my agenda. I thought to myself then, this is what I want to do. I want to be a crewman. I went Andy: From that first flight that was that was that was it? Brian Johnson: to see my DO then and my divisional officer and he said, in those days, as it is now, it's a direct entry the same as the RAF. They've adopted that system in the more recent years. But in those days, it was what was called a sideways entry branch. So you had to get... seniority in the branch you were in which was 18 months so there was no way I could do anything about that until was about 19 or 20. So that's what I did. I waited and then I was loaded to pre-flight training at Leon Solent, which was a seven week introduction where you did your survival courses, all your medicals. They taught you the rudiments of dead reckoning, navigation and stuff like that to see if you could handle what was going to come at you on basic training. So I got permission. You had to go and see the captain of the establishment and he said yes. And then I... I had second thoughts after that because I thought I was on a survey boat, really good ships company, going to nice places. I thought, I'm still quite young, I'll see if I can leave it a year. And I was told at the time then, you withdraw from that, you may never get another chance, you know. I thought, Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: well I'll take that gamble. So I took the gamble, long story short, I went and did what I was doing on the flight, a year later I applied again. When I saw the captain, it was the same captain and he remembered me. He Andy: Uh-huh. Brian Johnson: I've seen you before about this. I said, yes, sir, you have. I said, and I just felt I was a little bit young and immature. And he went, well, that's good enough. You go and do it now then. And so that Andy: Yep. Brian Johnson: was it. So I then went the following. I can't even remember what. was on a thing called Fleet Target Group then which was targets that were launched for gunnery shoots and stuff like that servicing them and then I went on a trip to America for five weeks which was my last swan song on Fleet Target Group and then I came back in March 76 and I went to do PFT then so that must have been the middle of the year before that I got permission to go again so that was that pre-flight training. All right sorry well most Andy: what's the PFT for those that don't know like know all the way all sorry all the way through these podcasts there's loads of acronyms and abbreviations and there's lots of people like what yeah we love it don't Brian Johnson: yeah, loads of TLAs, aviation's full of them. Well, right, so training for aircrew, for rating aircrew in the Navy mainly fell into different categories where when I joined the aircrewman branch, there was so many sub-specialisations you could do. You could be a missile aimer, a survey crewman, a SAR diver, a SAR crewman, ASW, and eventually communications in fixed wing, which some people did. But when you started the courses, it started with pre-flight training, it went to basic flying training, it went to advanced flying training, and then it went to operational flying training. So the longest course you could do at the time was the ASW, the Anti-Submarine Warfare course, to be a PINGR, as we used to call them. Andy: you Brian Johnson: And that would be, well, I eventually did that as a chief, and that was 11 months. But I never, although I did that course, I never actually ever wanted to be a pinger along with loads of people. And then in late 70s, they produced this defense council instruction at ECI saying that the branch could become a basic ASW branch and you would do other things from there. So everyone had to qualify in ASW. And at Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: that stage, I was an instructor at the recruitment school as a chief. so I did the course then. and then went to Press Week for the first time and... Andy: So you got promoted, like, how many years over that from, like, joining the Navy to being chief? Brian Johnson: Uhhh... Andy: You joined in 76 and then... Brian Johnson: 16 years I suppose. Andy: 16 years. Brian Johnson: Well, so you don't, you know, if you join up as a junior, you don't become a man until you're 17 and a half, 18. So you're not, and then you, you've got to get points and then you've got to do this and that. It's a, it's a good system, but to explain it would probably take most of this. So it's not worth it. But then Andy: No. Brian Johnson: when you do, when you do your basic flying training course at the end of that, you have to be a leading air crewman. So you need to have one hook on your arm. Yeah. So you get promoted Andy: Yep. Brian Johnson: if you haven't been promoted before then in your own branch. You see, the original air crewman branch was split in two. You were a crewman, but you were also qualifying in your own branch. So if you were an aircraft electrician before the 1st of April, 1974, which is everyone says, you know, what a great time to produce a new branch on April Fool's Day. And then you Andy: You Brian Johnson: remind them of the fact that the RAF started on the same day. So it then goes away, nobody bothers to give you too much shit then. You know what I mean? That's Andy: Nobody from the RAF. Brian Johnson: right, yeah. So, although many years before that, obviously. And of course the other thing you can always say is they go, well, you know, you go to Cranwell and do all this and yeah, what was Cranwell, what did Cranwell used to be called? HMS Daedalus. And then it's... Andy: Yeah, I think everybody from the Naval Air Wing always reminds the RAF that the Navy started the RAF, wasn't it? Brian Johnson: Well, yeah, I think that's probably a little bit too much. That's probably going a little bit too far. But it's just I think it's just because of the fact that when anyone mentions aviation, most people speak about the RAF, particularly RAF. You know, as we know. Andy: As we do, yes. Brian Johnson: so, yes, so, yes, so then you get to that and then that was my first. That was my first job as the chief crewman of a squadron. got depressed because the Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: year before that I was teaching courses at the Approved School. Because once you finish and then you want to qualify, once you've done your basic flying training at the accruement school, the next time you go back to the accruement school is to do your PLOS qualifying course. That Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: was, I think, for me personally, that was the making of me as a crewman. because, Andy: Why was that? Brian Johnson: certainly because of the fact it was quite demanding. You you learned an awful lot about, lot more about different dead reckoning techniques and everything, so much so that they would give you at the end of it, if you passed successfully, a qualification to save you doing the SAR OFT, operational flying training. So I never actually did a SAR OFT like some other people, but neither did anyone else that I did my PO's qualifying course Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: And most of them are still around. I was on course with Tony Langton. Andy: Yep. Brian Johnson: who I was talking to two days ago. Andy: I'll need to catch up with Tony. Need to get Tony on this as well. He'll have some stories. Brian Johnson: Yeah, well he's back at Stolaway flying. He's had a couple of medical issues, but like we all do at our age, although he's a little bit younger than me. Andy Veins who is still flying, was until recently still flying historic flight. And that's not just based around him, that's based around the aircraft, even though he's historic as well. Paul Newman who used to work for do a lot of stuff for Westlands and things. James Cockerill who used to be the chief crewman at Sumbera but unfortunately he's passed. Gary Bridgewater, did star in Ireland with him. Nipper Naylor, Adrian Naylor, who's a lot to do with the Recruits Association now as well. He left at 40, he didn't fly again after that. So thankfully most of us are still around. yeah. Andy: So press work. Brian Johnson: Well, so when I got to Prestwick as the Chief Air Crewman to do my first anti-submarine warfare tour, we had what was called the Mark 5 seeking. The seeking was able to do passive ASW or active, but we mainly concentrated on active because we defended the Clyde for the bombers going up and down and all our passive kit was kept in a hangar at Caldrose which was the best place for it in Cornwall. It couldn't have got any further away in the UK, which was nice. Andy: You Brian Johnson: I quite enjoyed Active. I'll go and reckon, I've said this to many people, I quite enjoyed Active Sonar because it was either there or it wasn't there. It went ping, you got a ping back and then you could track it. With passive where you're listening, you don't know, there's that many lines on the chart, you think to yourself, I'm not really quite sure what that is. And more to the point, I don't really care. Do you know what I mean? But of course Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: they had a SAR flight there, which in those days was an integral part of the squadron. It was when I went back a few years later that it became an autonomous unit and obviously became very busy as it is now with their 350 plus jobs a year, etc. So yeah, so I enjoyed Prestwick. Prestwick the first time was good with the Mk5. I did three years there and then I ended up going to the Commando World. at Yovleton then in standards flight for another three years. I got promoted to warrant officer and my first tour was back at Presswick, by which stage the squadron had changed markedly. It was Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: a lot more aircraft, now Mark 6s with an autonomous star flight, a lot more passive stuff going on with the Mark 6 in terms of listening and doing stuff. And there was It was over laden with authority. There was a lot of people got promoted to Lieutenant Commander. It was felt that they had to have a position given to them. So you had lots of these little empires that people were running. And of course, suppose Andy: No. Brian Johnson: the other thing that was different is you were going back there as a war officer, which meant that you were getting involved in more operational type stuff and paperwork and divisional work and all that sort of stuff. So it was different. And I was there for another four or a bit years before I managed to get my glider finished and get it back to Yolnton, as it were, to Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: escape. And luckily enough, never... The two things that it was good to... I spent a long time as a Warnoff, sir, compared to some people. It was nearly 13 years by the time I left. So it was like you expected to get a job with Ops 3 or CVS on a carrier, which would have just about, you know... look for the rope and something to stand on, like sketch. Or you ended up in other non-flying jobs if that was possible, or you ended up going to Cornwall and going fully into the ASW world, which again was something that I never wanted to do. One I never, I had three years in Cornwall, which I thoroughly enjoyed. Two years teaching at the recruitment school and one year doing the ASW course. Teaching at the recruitment school was a joy. I loved it. I loved teaching. Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: I liked telling people, having conversations with people, teaching people things, people coming back you with problems that you can sort out, all that sort of stuff. That was great. The SW course was hard work. Certainly. Again, most of the people who were involved in ASWME then are still all around, save one Andy Burry, who's the guy who passed away last year with a heart attack. He was a young leading hand when we did the course. And then, where was I going with this? Yeah, so, but I didn't want to be in coma. I didn't want to get immersed back into it. Because the other thing that you get when you become a warrant officer, instead of just getting a draft order sent here, you actually have a thing called a depointer, like the officers. So you have conversations Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: with this man and he looks at your aspirations and stuff and then gives them a damn good ignore him. But it doesn't suit his draft board. Andy: I'm pretty sure where you'll need it. Brian Johnson: Same as every other draftee and the same as happened to the appointers for pilots and stuff because they would relate their experiences when you were over a beer or whatever. And then so the appointer used to come to Gannet and to Presswick once every year. And for three years I managed to avoid him being there, even though I was one of only about three or four Warrant officers there. And eventually he ambushed me in the corridor and he said, right Mr. Johnston, he says, what are going to do with you then? I said, I have no idea. He says, you like it here? I said, well, I like it here in comparison to going to Cornwall and being fully immersed in ASW or going on Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: a CVS. And he went, right, okay. And as luck would have it, the next person who got promoted who came to relieve me was a guy called John Sheldon. And he, instead of coming there for four years, he managed to do a lot of ground work at Yolkerton to create billets for warrant officers there when he was in standards fight. So I was lucky, I got the fruit of his labors as it were, because they created the position and I ended up going to Yolkerton, back to standards, but now as a warrant officer. So that worked out great for me. And then I managed Andy: Nice. Yeah. Brian Johnson: to spend virtually the rest of my career there apart from two years at Showbury teaching basic flying training in the Defence Helicopter Flying School, which again was great. Andy: Must have been nice going back to Yeovilton as a warrant officer in standards flight. That you must have felt like almost the top of your game at that point. Brian Johnson: Well, it was nice going anywhere as a Warrant Officer, particularly if you were going into jobs where you had a bit of authority to use when it needed to be used. One of the things I discovered early on as a Warrant Officer is the fact that most of the officer corps never really quite knew what to do with an angry Warrant Officer. They weren't quite sure how Andy: Stay clear of an angry worn officer. Brian Johnson: to approach you, you so you could get your point across. As long as like in everything else, I mean if you're just going to go in and bang the table nobody's going to listen to you. But if you go in and you have a solution, you know, because not only with that, because this was at the time of the amalgamation of the jungly world, the commando world, where it was going to be a Royal Marine air crewman branch. So Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: and every branch in the Royal Marines has a thing called a branch advisor. So I was the first branch advisor in a blue suit. for a Royal Marine branch. Andy: But that went down well. Brian Johnson: Well, actually, to be perfectly honest, it wasn't a problem because you weren't surrounded by, you know, if I'd walked into Limston, the training base or somewhere like that, where you were 100 % Royal Marine, yes, it could be. And I did go to some interesting meetings where they wanted to, in the Royal Marines, you have Warrant Officer Two, then you have Warrant Officer One. The core RSM. is a third tour warrant officer. So therefore, he's the most senior person in the Royal Marines. Even his fellow RSMs call him sir. And you know, and then because they had warrant officer two, so when I went to my first meeting, I was seen as I'm a warrant officer too. And then a couple of people started to refer to me as warrant officer two. And then the core RSM slammed his pay stick on the table and he goes, stop. He said, there's no such thing in the Navy as a warrant officer, two. He's a warrant officer, one. And he said to me, how long have you been a warrant officer? I said, about 10 years. And he says, well, you're the most senior warrant officer here. He says, maybe I should be calling you, sir. I said, no, I don't think so, in some way. I'm quite happy Andy: Yes. Brian Johnson: calling you, sir. And he says, does it bother you? said, no, not really. said, people are used to different systems. What's the point? Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: So, you know, different things happen. It was good because you got to see things, you got very used to being involved in all the promotion aspects and go and sit on tables when people get promoted. And it was a great system where you could turn around to people with bit of authority and say, you were expected to get promoted there but you didn't get promoted because of this. And they go, why? I said, well, I was at the board. So, you know, Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: it's not anywhere near as easy as you think that it might be, as clear cut as it might be. Andy: No. It's nice getting to sit around different tables, isn't it? Getting into those meetings that you knew that happened all the way through your career, but now you're at that table listening and deciding what's happening. Brian Johnson: God, and then if you move that into Sivy Street, when we were part of the bid team, most of the SAR stuff fell to myself and the flight ops manager who was a pilot. But then at the top end of the scale, sitting around a table, you had two star Air Vice Marshals, and then all the way down to us. And their idea of running the new Harmonized SAR was so far removed from Because all they knew was the military. yes, the base will have a wing commander in command. Who's looking after the civvies then? Well, the wing commander. No he's not. Think of your model. What model have you got that's got that now? None. Where's the nearest you're going to get to it? DHAFS. Is it an accident that in DHAFS the squadron's CO on the squadrons is military and they also have a chief pilot to deal with the civvies? Is that an accident or does that system work? Well, in actual fact it works and that's what you'll have to have here on bases that are co-located with service and, you know, civilian. But it's a learning. Andy: Yeah. So how did you come to, when did you decide that you were leaving the Navy then and going out to Sivyland? How did that come about? Brian Johnson: Well, I was back at Yolkerton working at 848 Squadron, which was the training squadron and the kind of HQ for the commando world as it were. I had 18 months left to do. I had not a clue what I was going to do when I left, as I kind of alluded to earlier on. And I bumped into an X-Star diver called Shiner Wright. And he said, I'm surprised we've not received your CV. And I thought to myself, maybe it's about time I shoot my stumps and go on. And of course the Navy were doing what the Navy would do with people of my era. They would turn around and go... Do you want to stay a little bit longer? Yeah, yeah. Doing what though? Well, we could maybe extend you in the job for six months and nine months. Now, mean, three of my daughter at that stage was what? Two. So Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: I needed to have a future. You needed to have something that you were going to hang your hat on. So I thought, well, sorry, I'll send my CVs out. And then long story short, I ended up going to Ireland with CHC. and then got the Chief Truman's job after a year or so, and then ended up, again, because of the bid work, going off into the UK. Andy: So when you went to Ireland, is that as a winch operator or did you do winchman stuff as well? How did that run? It dual qualified. Brian Johnson: Both, Well, well, well, that was standard. mean, everybody, everybody in CEC in Ireland was dual qualified. Some people tended to fly a lot more as hoist-ops than they did as rescue swimmers. But, or winchmen, sorry. I'm so used to the American system now, having been in Guyana. I always refer to a winchman there as a rescue swimmer. Daggers would be ever so pleased because for the first year they just kept picking me up for it. because everyone was a winchmiller or hoist up. Yeah, yeah, Andy: Well, they're changing it from Winchman here as well, so that's on the change. Brian Johnson: well, what's in a name really? Does it really Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: matter? So yeah, so you did both. So you were trained as both. I was trained in Dublin over a period of, training in those days was a flexible feast because you go to Dublin to do your training. you'd have two instructors there who were both line crewmen or hoist ops of winchmen and then you're flying in the 61 which was underpowered so therefore you had to wait until there was a raging gale or a bit of wind to be able to do stuff or get a target that was moving. Spent a lot of time going to the the big ferries you know the 40 knot ones and being lowered onto the roof of that next to the Marasat link, CUTE PROMS link. it doing 32 knots and then all of a sudden it would just turn right and disappear without any announcement which was always quite interesting and stuff like Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: that. that lasted for a while. started there, well I mean even getting out of the Navy was kind of a story in itself because I went to the simulator. We used to fly a lot in the left hand seat in the Sea King Mark IV so we had to be trained in manual throttles and we had to re-qualify for that. six months. So I'd gone down to Cold Rose to do it and I'd met John Patterson in town who was then the Chief Crewman Chief Crewman Standards and CHC in Ireland. And he says and I'd mentioned the fact that I was looking for a job he says and he said to me at the end of the night says you so you really are looking for a job there? I said yeah so it's in the SCV so I think I've got something for you. I said right okay so I did that and then we started a telephone conversation. and he then got me to come out to Ireland for an interview. I went to Dublin, met him, had an interview. Well actually had a Guinness and a Pi in the pub next door would be a better statement rather than an interview. Absolutely, yeah. Andy: That's where all the best interviews are though, isn't it? Brian Johnson: He brought in the guy who was the head of standards there, Jim Curran, who was an ex-Aircore pilot, lovely man, still is a lovely man. But he... He just looked at John and at John Pax and he goes, well, do you want to know? He says, I'm definitely having them. He said, well, you know, let's see if it's complete, so let's have a pint then. And that was kind of a little bit it. But then it was what happened then, because then I went back to Yolnton and I was sitting in the office as the branch manager and stuff. And so was quite heavily involved in doing stuff. And then he rang me up and he says, well, I'd like you to start in three weeks. I said, well, that's an interesting thing then, isn't it? Simply because of the fact that it takes me a year to get out of the Navy. Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: So I thought, right, okay, I'll go away and I'll set myself a little problem. So if all the warrant officers were at Yolkerton, Royal Marines and stuff, and we were all in jobs, I phoned them up and tried to move them all around. And would anyone really have a problem with it who could then cover the job I was doing there? And everyone was on site. That was fine. Maybe it was because they wanted to get rid of me. I don't really know. Or maybe it was just because they liked me. It'll be one of the two either, but there'll be no in between. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Andy: They were scared of you, Brian. they were scared of you. Brian Johnson: And of course it means that somebody else gets promoted because then there's a vacancy for a warrant officer. So I went to Andy: Yes. Brian Johnson: see my CO, guy called Rick Fox, and I said, look, can I go and do this? And he said, yeah. I said, I'm going to pop now to see the appointment. said, and I'm assuring you that you will be without a warrant officer for a maximum of six to eight weeks. And he went, fine, okay. Two, which was leave anyway, so it didn't matter. I went off to find, and strangely enough, the appointer, the aforementioned appointer, was actually at Yolton that day. So I went to find him and he said to me, well, I said to him, said, look, I I want to try and get out. I've been offered a job. I want to take up the job. I to move my family to Ireland. And he says to me, and he always called me Brian. His name was Robin Wayne. I'd known him for years. In fact, his claim to fame was that in the Lynx world, he was Prince Andrew's observer. Which must have been a... Andy: Maybe not a great claim to fame now. Brian Johnson: Well, no, not exactly that, but in those days I suppose it was. And Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: so he said, right, okay. He said, how long have you done? I said, 33 years. He said, you don't even get that for murder, you? Well, I went, no, this is no, you can go. I said, well, to make it easy for you, I have a plan. And I've discussed this plan with all the people that I'm gonna mention now. He said, no, that's fine, you can go. So instead of doing a year, I did three weeks. Andy: Man, that's so good. Not many people do Brian Johnson: So then that was me. that was, Andy: that, is there? Brian Johnson: no, that was early March. And then so I started, I had my top table, my leave in the Navy on the 1st of April, 2004. And then I'd already just, the night before I went home to do my, for my top table on the Friday on the Wednesday night, I did my final line check night trip at Waterford. Andy: You Brian Johnson: So that was me finished then and by the time we got to July, the family, we managed to buy a house in Ireland and we moved lock, stock and barrel to there. So that was my transition from the Navy really. Andy: Yeah, where did you move to in Ireland? Brian Johnson: I lived in a place called KilmcThomas which is about 20 minutes drive to the west of Waterford. Andy: Okay, I'll need to put up some maps of where all these bases are. Brian Johnson: Well, mean, the bases in Ireland, if you just go on to anything to do with Ireland, all the bases are still in the same place because when I went to Ireland virtually at the start there, they only had three bases, was Shannon in the West, which was their major base because it was all the work that they got, not the Shannon River, but in the Atlantic. And then there Andy: Yep. Brian Johnson: was Dublin, which was based at Dublin Airport and Waterford. And then... Shortly after that they created a fourth bass at Sligo. Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: Because I spent my year and a bit as the chief trimming standards there going between all those four pieces. Andy: So how long did you do on the line before you became Chief Crewman Standards Officer was straight into Chief Crewman? Brian Johnson: No, I was based at Waterford as a hoist-up winchman for 10 or 11 months. John Patterson left and came back to do stuff at Penns Anston. They advertised his job. was, I think, six of us put in for it and I got it, which made me, again, one of the most popular people in Ireland. Well, I'm stage-rough, but yeah. Well, you Andy: A Scotsman who came from England, who came to Ireland as a chief crewman. Brian Johnson: got a little bit of slack because you were Scottish, but not many people got that. And certainly, I know from my wife's point of view, being in England, being from the Isle of Man, because she went to Great Paints to tell everyone that she wasn't English, but she was Manx. I mean, Chris Hughes... a of mine who's still serving as a hoist up at Leon Solon, he came out to, he took my place when I got the CCS job. And you should have seen the state of his English registered car. It was coined and battered and every day. mean, Waterford was kind of a little bit of a hotbed for the continuation IRA and stuff. In fact, I was sitting one day. watching people being arrested in the not-milled down hills which were about 20 miles from my front door. People in balaclavas with AK-47s all provisional IRA or continued IRA. So there was quite a bit of feeling. You know if you go to a SAR base and the password for the door is numbers for the Battle of Vinegar Hill where the Irish beat the English, you know you're in the right place. So, you know, but I got on well. There was some guys there I got on well with. In fact, went to Dublin, we went to Dublin a few months back for a weekend and I phoned up a guy called Neil McAdam, who's Big Mucker Remain down at Waterford. He's the chief crewman at Waterford now. And a nicer man you'll never meet. Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: Lovely guy, yeah. Andy: How's he getting on with the transition to, well, they're now Bristol's, they? Brian Johnson: he thinks it's a, well, we'll better watch what I say. I mean, he found it astounding that they thought that they could take over and convert two bases in two months. Andy: Yeah, that does. Brian Johnson: And when they tried it, they extended it for another year. So he was kind of just like, yeah, OK, we know what's coming. We know how it's going to be done. We've seen it done on other bases. And we'll just do what we've got to do, much the same as every other base does when you swap around, I suppose. Andy: Exactly. At the end of the day it's a different t-shirt, another badge on your shoulder and yeah, you carry on doing the job that you were doing. Brian Johnson: Yeah, and strangely enough, most helicopter companies are the same because you know the problems that we had in CHC, the same problems were in Bristol's. I mean look at the debacle of, well maybe that's the wrong word, but you know when you change a routine and go to 1311 and then you want to do it across all the bases and then you make it two weeks on, two weeks off, a lot of people find that as a massive kerfuffle and yet it's not really. It's just another routine. You know. no, no. Andy: Yeah, but people don't like change, do they? It's very difficult to introduce change and there's always kickback from it. But yeah. Brian Johnson: Well, it's quite interesting going into say a base that you end up at, Stornoway, and you're converting it from CHC, you're converting it from Bristol to CHC. And in a lot of areas, there's massive amounts of kickback. And then you listen to the stories when CHC left and Bristol's went back in, they were kicking off then against Bristol's. And it's like, well, you used to all work for Bristol's. So what's changed, you know? In actual fact, CHC did quite a few good things for Stornoway. I mean, it gave everyone a 10 and a half grand a year pay rise the day they walked in because of Island Allowance and Andy: Yep. Brian Johnson: stuff like that. So there was lots of positives. And again, new technology, new aircraft, et cetera. I have to say, though, generally speaking, never had any problems with the crewmen. The crewmen were nearly all on site all the way through right from the day we walked in. And it was good because I knew a lot of them from the Navy. So lots of them like Tony Langton and people like that, Jerry Flannery, all these guys who were, I've known for years anyway. Andy: Yeah, and they knew you so they weren't going to be kicking back off fucking Johnson. Brian Johnson: well, that's the great thing about being a Sibby isn't it compared to the military. There's only so much you can kick back in the military before you find yourself in somebody's office getting some sort of chat and your ears ripped off. Whereas with Sibby Street you can say a bit more and of course then you've got a union and that's when real negotiations really get down to it because the most militant people are are the people who are the movers and shakers in the union. Ireland was like that as well, very much so. Andy: So how long did you do as Chief Crewman in Ireland then before you started going on to the bid process? Brian Johnson: both the same. I actually started in the bid work before I became the Chief Criminal Standards because I Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: took the job off John Paterson and he said well you know he was too busy so I did it because as I said earlier on about the fact I weren't that busy at Warford. And you know, I'd actually come out of a job from Yolotn where 90 hour weeks was fairly standard. You were night flying four nights a week on NVG, generally speaking. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, your night flying Thursday was a spare. And more often than not, you flew the spare night to keep up with the syllabus. So you were kind of busy, busy, busy. So when I went to Waterford and sat there with no extra peripheral stuff to do, it was just like... In fact, all the Dara Fitzpatrick, the last who died in rescue 116, she was my chief pilot. And she used to regularly come in the hangar and I was emptying storerooms and painting walls. Or I was upstairs refreshing all the furniture on the patio to repaint it. She says, you really are that bored, aren't you? I said, yeah, I am. I said, Andy: You Brian Johnson: by the time you maybe fly once a shift for an hour and a half, and go and do stuff, do the paperwork Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: afterwards, which somebody else always wanted to do because they were bored as well. But they all had, a lot of were learning to play the bloody bodhran or they were playing this. And then I don't know if you've ever come across a pilot called Peter Mackenzie Brown, he joined and he was learning to play the bagpipe. So we banned him to the other end of the hanger and stuff like that. Andy: You Brian Johnson: So everybody had a hobby, whereas I never, in all the jobs I did in aviation, I never had time for all them. mean, I was always a big sportsman, always. I played a lot of rugby, played a lot of football, ran the field gun, all that sort of stuff when you were in the Navy. But that was the sport and that wasn't so much, you know, trying to... Yeah. Yeah. Andy: an alternative duty or an additional duty. So the bid process was that for the UK SAR G1 contract then, wasn't Brian Johnson: No, that was for Gapsar. That was for the Gapsar contract, which CHC, I think, thought, and I think they were to a degree in the driving seat. I think maybe the Coast Guard had enough at Bristol's for the time being. And then we had, I mean, I went around with a lot of people from the Coast Guard during the bid process because CHC were all about transparency, that all the people that were involved in it and running the bid. were involved in that. There was a guy doing that, a guy called Steve Duffy, was an ex-warrior pilot from the army who was the bed lead and he was good, he was really good. But he was an old style aviation wheeler and dealer. There's no special deals apart from special deals. That sort of thing. Andy: That doesn't go on, Brian. That doesn't go on. Brian Johnson: No, well, in actual fact, to be honest, I think in the 20 odd years I've been involved in civil aviation, it probably doesn't anywhere near as much as it used to. Because if they set their heart on getting some, I know you mentioned Tricky Dane, for instance. We were having flour fitted to the 92. So there was nobody in CHC knew anything about flour, including me. There was never any mention of sending anyone a course. So I found out from a colleague of mine that they were using flour. There was a guy in the Maryland squadron which was run by Tricky Dane, who was the CEO of 824 at the time, I think. They had a guy who Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: was an ex-RAF guy, Serban RAF guy, who was a bit of a flur expert. So I reached out to Trickey from being a past old buddies. And we went down there and basically they fell in love with Trickey. And I remember getting Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: in the car with Steve Duffy and the soon to be new business unit leader, guy called Ian McCluskey, who was an ex-group captain, saw from the RAF, they said, we've got to get this guy because somebody's going to come in and snap him up. I knew, I was, was, these two were sat in the back and I'd already made a joke about putting the partition up so I couldn't hear what they were saying. As we were driving back into Helston, the nearest town to Cromwell's Air Base, go into the hotel, nurse says, well, now is the time to do it. And they said, why is that? said, because with this new commander in command, he's going to end up in an office job, and he doesn't want to be in an office job. He wants to be flying. So they approached him, and lo and behold, about two years afterwards, he was flying the 92 at Somber before he went to Stornoway. Andy: So he didn't get out in three weeks like you then. Brian Johnson: No, no, I think there's no comparison between running a squadron and then being the CEO of a squadron at the level he was at and where I was. You find that most ratings are fairly interchangeable. You know, well, Andy: to take over his position. Brian Johnson: all the people want to take over this position. It's finding the right person because the Maryland was very much in its infancy then, you know, so, and was they were having major problems with it. Andy: Yeah, so you won the gaps are contract for CHC and Brian Johnson: Yeah. Andy: that was was covering what basis again? Stornoway Sumbra? Brian Johnson: That was covered in Stornoway, Sumburgh, Leon Solon and Foreman. So we introduced the... In one year, we introduced the 92s to the Northern bases and the 139 to the Southern bases. And then that was... Oh Andy: And will you, you Chief Croum in for the whole of it? Brian Johnson: yeah, yeah, yeah. My desk was at Leon Solon in the same room basically as the business unit leader, which is the aforementioned Ian McCluskey. and my, I had a whole succession of flight ops managers. So think in the eight years I was there, had six, six different guys, if I remember rightly. Yeah, it must've been about six, yeah. But I ended up with Mike Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: Nash as my, was my last flight ops manager. And then I worked in Guyana with him because he was working for HeliOps then. So, Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: yeah. Andy: So gaps are for all that time and then obviously during that gaps are process it was going for the actual contract as well then wasn't it? Brian Johnson: Yep, yeah, for G1 as it were. Well, Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: in fact, first of all, it was for what was called Harmonized Saw, Sar Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: H. So the idea was that the Civies would take over all the bases in the UK. At that stage there was 12. We all know history shows that it's become 10. And that Andy: Thank Brian Johnson: was to be a complete S92. We were going to buy... 24, 27, 28 S92s, 28 million Andy: Wow. Brian Johnson: each. Andy: Wow. Brian Johnson: And the reason that that contract was initially tabled for 25 years was because of the initial startup costs, because it would have bankrupted Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: most people to be able to do that. There was three main bidders. was ourselves, was Bristow's and Bond at that stage. Andy: Yeah, so I was with Bond at that time. So I just started with Bond as they were going through that process. And then it went down to the two, wasn't it? It was CHC Brewsters? Brian Johnson: and Bristol. Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: And there was, strangely enough, there was, was, there was split into three lots. Lot one was them all, was everything. Lot two, if I remember rightly, was the big aircraft, the 92, and lot three was the smaller aircraft, which was the 139. Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: And, and then you ended up in a situation where, I'm not sure, CHC, at that stage, CHC had gone through a big change. That was a company a bit like Bristow's. Bristow's started by Alan Bristow's ex-movie engineer. CHC started by a Canadian called Craig Dobbins. Craig Dobbins passed away. The business was left to two sons. They had no real interest in aviation, they just wanted to move on. So they sold it to a commercial bank called First Reserve. I was involved in the process of that and that again was a very, very interesting change when you go from a family-run business to somebody whose everything is about. think their CEO at the time was 32 years old, the guy who ran First Reserve. And what they do is they put a thing called a streamlining company in place, Alvarez Marshall from Sixth Avenue in New York. They came in and I spoke to a guy in the SAR office. Roy Logan, very knowledgeable guy. I said, how does all this work with Roy? He said, well what'll happen, he says, is that they'll come in for 100 days, they'll look at what we're doing, or what's being done, he says, and then the four horsemen of the apocalypse will come over the horizon and people will disappear. And he was only a day out Andy: you Brian Johnson: because it all happened on day 99. And people just disappeared. And in actual fact, this streamlined company did a really good job because although we were doing gaps are, right? And this was for however many years, five years or ten years, ten years it was to do this and introduce the new aircraft. We always saw that as a loss leader. The profits in it were very low. It was something like one and a half or two million a year possibly. And that would be if everything was going right. Well of course at that stage when they brought in the new aircraft the Coast Guard brought in the fine system. So if your aircraft was down for a day, that was 25,000 US dollars. If it was down for an afternoon, it was this, and then there was this and this and this and this. So we weren't making any money, but certainly, I think when Alderys Marshall came in, we were about 1.1 million down, and within three months, we were 1.7 million up. just by Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: literally streamlining what was going on and how things were done. Well at that stage CHC Andy: So they knew exactly what they were doing then on a business, on business-wise. Brian Johnson: was two companies. You had CHC itself and they were split into CHC Scotiabank, they were split into CHC Ireland, CHC Global and then you had, Jesus I forgot the name of the company who ran the other half, Helly One. Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: And they were the tax and cash cow for CHC. So they did all the business dealings. That's where you had AOG where, strangely enough, this is the one that always used to tickle me. If you wanted to keep a gearbox in your stores, if you had it there, you had to pay rent on it. Not the stores, but on the gearbox. Because somebody else might want it. And that's how the AOG, because again, you have this thing called PBH, Powered By The Hour. So if you get a brand new car, if you take the warranty, you pay a lot of money to Sikorsky and that puts you at the top of the spares tree. So when you need Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: stuff, you get stuff quickly. So you can afford to work AOG then aircraft on the ground because you don't need to keep any real spares holding. So there's all these Andy: There we go. Brian Johnson: little nuances that are tied into it which make the company work and that's where Heli-1 came into it. Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: So they got rid of lot of stuff from early on and changed the working procedures and stuff and it worked. and of course, cut the mind power to the bone. Andy: But then ultimately, ultimately, yeah, but at the end of all of that and was during that bid process, stuff happened obviously and Bristow's got the contract, Brian Johnson: Well, that was a bit of a farce anyway. I could tell you long story about that, but it might prove to be slightly contentious. Yeah, keep Andy: We'll keep that for another podcast. Brian Johnson: that for some time when we eventually get together and have a beer and you can say, oh, remember you told me this and I'll go, yeah, oh, well, I'll tell you that now. But it was nowhere near... Yeah, Andy: Yeah, I wanted to see that real story. Brian Johnson: well, the person who got pilloried for that, I worked in the same office as him and... I was involved in the aftermath with all the barristers and all that had been interviewed and there was no case there. There Andy: Hmm. Brian Johnson: was no case there at all. another story that was related to me by somebody from a politician after a couple of beers was that it was just one PFI too many. So read into any of that, which you will. Yeah, indeed, absolutely. Andy: We'll leave that up to the audience. Yeah. Okay. So you were with CHC, but Bristow's won the contract. So where did your career take you at that point? Brian Johnson: Well, I suppose in many ways it's very difficult to be too paid over to a position when you've already been working as the Chief Creaming Standards and you're not going to go into Bristol as the Chief Creaming Standards. therefore, I kind of divined that my next base if I wanted to stay in the system would be Leon Soler. One of my best buddies in SAR at that stage was a guy called Gucci Harrison, Neil Harrison, who's in Bristol now in South Wales. And Andy: Yep. Brian Johnson: he's a dead meat boy, so he's a pumpy lad. He should have been a Matlow, he should never have been in the RAF. That was a complete Andy: you Brian Johnson: travesty. And he said to me, says, I'll tell you what, he says, you, and he used to come back and forth here to the TT and stuff and stay with us. So he knew Sandy and Freya well. And he says, you won't want to be educating your daughter anywhere in Portsmouth. He says, trust me, that's why I live in Barnstam. I said, right, okay. So I then started to look at other things and at that stage then, that's when Shell Aviation were looking to start SAR up for themselves in Brunei. So I applied Andy: Yep. Brian Johnson: for that and I got it and then I went out there and I did three years there. I may have done more there. It was good because it was the S92 and so you were staying very much in the aircraft that you knew a lot about. which probably helped me get the job in many ways. So I went out there and yeah, I mean, was it a good place to be? Yeah, I mean, they used to refer to it as a Muslim country with a small unlike Saudi, where you had a lot more rules and regulations and stuff. I got on well with the Bruneians who were there. It was good. It was good for, it's a part of the world I'd never been to. So I'd never been to Southeast Asia, South China Sea and everything. It reestablished my love of diving and cultivated that in my daughter. So we did a lot of diving when we were there. The work was kind of okay. We flew, even though it was what you would, I think it started off as an all weather, sorry, outfit, but they were too risk averse to let you go and do stuff. that wasn't involved Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: with. And you've got to remember, a lot of people don't understand the scale of the operation there. There was over 250 oil rigs off the shores of Brunholt, of only about five or six a month. So they put people on these Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: every day. And if you take the 92 that we inherited, that they had converted, they had it done down in Brisbane with Sikorsky. Excuse me. I went down there a couple of times too because I'd been involved in the acceptance from Sikorsky before with CHC, so they pigeonholed me Andy: Yes, I've that experience. Brian Johnson: to go down there and do the check test flyers and stuff like that. Which was great because in actual fact that whole thing was run by Jason Spinks who we know from Stornoway. He was the lead engineer on it and I don't think you'll find Andy: Great guy. Brian Johnson: another man in the world who knows more about S92s than Jason Spinks or avionics in general. Andy: No. Brian Johnson: frankly, but there you are, monster of a person when it comes to information. so I Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: got reconnected with him, so I got a lot of information out of him and so on and so forth. But these aircraft had flown very few hours, but most of them had done over 30,000 landings. because their longest leg Andy: does he? Brian Johnson: was 20 minutes. You know, they were bouncing around. Andy: Okay, so just like hopping. Brian Johnson: Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the nearest oil rig to the airfield was probably about 400 meters offshore. Andy: One experience like Brian Johnson: Bye! Andy: to go out to that area of the world though and to do a new set up as well. Were they just setting up when you went out there or already established? Brian Johnson: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it from scratch, Andy: It was from scratch. So like setting up another base again and introducing all that sort of stuff like interesting and not full on sour like what you've been doing before but trying to establish what that actual unit was going to be all about. Brian Johnson: Yeah, and establishing it in amongst people who didn't know anything about it at all, but actually been in-house. You know, in terms of the fact that there you are, there's your Sari aircraft, and it was flown back up from Australia on a transit. And two or three the pilots went to do, which I should imagine they had a good time doing that. I mean, it was good for me. I'd never been to Australia. In I'd never been to Southeast Asia, as I said before. And they had a great system there because when you worked for Shell at that time, you got a free business class ticket home every year for head of family. So that equated to us to about $32,000 a year for travel. And you didn't have to use it to come home. So you could go wherever you wanted. So every six weeks we used to go on holidays. So we went to China and all over the place. Places that I would never, ever have dreamt of seeing. But from a professional point of view, And aviation, it was just pretty boring. It was pretty mundane, what you would do. Andy: Yeah, and it was all there to set up and to train the locals ultimately as well, wasn't it? That was our main goal. Brian Johnson: Yeah, well, what they call Bruneianization was a big thing in that they had to take on another 11, every company who was there had an undertaking to take on another 11 % of the workforce every year under Bruneianization. So we initially were tasked to train two guys and the two guys that we picked, one came from what was called the Bomba, which was the fire service, and another one was a cabin attendant. in the oil and gas side of things. Were they easily trained? No. Were they very receptive to what we were doing? No. But then again, what you've got to be careful of, and I think we've had a conversation about this before, is that it's same in Guyana. You have an expectation in the UK to produce these super beings, know, these people who are crewmen who know how to do everything. But even the military now are not training to that level. Because if you speak to people who I knew who we worked together 20 years ago, 25 years ago, who are still in the military, that's changed there as well. You know, commando air crewman is nowhere near probably as competent and as capable as he was 20 years ago. You know what I mean? Now, I Andy: Yeah, it's a completely different thing. Brian Johnson: would hasten to add that I'm getting that second and third hand. that the expectation is not the same. When we were taking people through basic flying training, there was all this air traffic, was meteorology, was this, that, and all the other subjects that you tied in. Now I've just had experience of that in Guyana because it had to be pointed out to me by Greg Dagno because he'd just spent 13 years in Qatar, right? And he'd been training Arabs. And he says, forget everything that you did in the UK. He says you've got to bring it down to a basic level and just teach them the basics and hopefully that will stick through more than three sleeps. You know, and in actual fact, he was bang on because you do, you have to get away from your expectation of what you're producing. You're not producing the beings that you were once one of, or still are one of, if you know what I mean, in terms of what got Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: battled into you in the early days. So that is the change. Andy: Yeah, and it's complete different expectation, isn't it? It's like you said, in the UK we try to create this all-singer, all-dancin' being that is in Sarr. In different parts of the world, you don't need that. So it's just at different levels that you need to approach it at. Brian Johnson: Well, I mean, all weather stars changed. mean, if you there are certain bases you could go to in the UK where a lot of the skills that we were trying to use in Stonaway, for instance, were different because, you know, we were a mountain declared base. So you went in the mountains at night. Your NVG skills needed to be high. Your navigation skills needed to be a little bit higher. And so on and so forth, because I mean, I could see all that firsthand because when I was moving around the bases in the CHC days which were no goggles at all, everything was conventional. But there was a different skill set in terms of the fact of what you wouldn't get anyone at Sombra hardly ever going out to a yacht to Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: rescue someone from a yacht that's pitching around. Yeah you get lots of pitching around at Stornoway in Sombra, we know that, but at Leon Solon it's a short chop and the Solon loads of yachts and working in real confined spaces, getting people into confined spaces and so on, and getting them off. It is a slightly, yeah, decks are deck. You know, I can turn around and say, yeah, decks are deck. But it isn't really, because decks are different, Andy: No it's not. Brian Johnson: as we all know. And different techniques have to be used, and the skill sets are different. So that was the good thing about going around all the races. But you saw a difference. I mean, you go out at night in Portland, you go down into the races south of Portland Bell. and you sit at the back of a deck and they would be going, this is too rough for training and you'd be thinking, Jesus, this is calm from where I've just been last week. Do you know what I mean? So it is, Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: but it doesn't make them any less of an entity. It just makes them a different mindset. That's the end. Andy: Yes, different mindset, different base, different levels of risk versus reward levels as well. Brian Johnson: Well, yeah, but yeah, that's why, you know, you get to the stage where you go and do a job and I think if you're not a human, if you're lying in bed somewhere at Stonyway with the wind whistling around the building, the last thing you want is a call to 200 miles west at two o'clock in the morning. And if you turn around and say you do, you are mentally ill. It's just a... Andy: Yeah, you should not be going in that aircraft. Brian Johnson: Yes, it's one of these things where you turn around and go, yeah that's fine. I mean I know even from years and years before that, being at Cold Rose and that watched the star flight there when they used the Sea King for long range and everyone dreaded the 200 miles southwest because you never knew what you were going to get but it was always going to be some form of nightmare. Andy: Yeah, and a long Brian Johnson: Yeah. Andy: protracted journey home whether you actually got home or not. Brian Johnson: Well, it's funny enough, had my, I was having a laugh yesterday when Freya was asking me a couple of questions and she says, well, you know when you used to go all that way out? I said, yeah, an hour and 10 minutes of boredom followed by 10 minutes of abject terror followed by dealing with a casualty on the way back. And so there you are, there's Andy: You Brian Johnson: Long Range Star. That's what Long Range Star meant to me. Andy: continuous chats about how much fuel we've got. Brian Johnson: Yes, exactly. And the fact that sometimes it was seen as an abject failure if you went there and you couldn't get the person off until Andy: Mm-hmm. Brian Johnson: you pointed out to them that you never lost any life because someone had broken their arm. Andy: Yep. Brian Johnson: So why don't we just wait until it's daylight and make it slightly easier and do it then? yeah, Andy: and get them to still go a bit closer. Brian Johnson: yeah. And maybe get them behind St Kilda or something where it's not quite so rough. yeah, yeah. You know? And so on. Yeah. I think everyone was the Andy: Good idea. Brian Johnson: same. It was like the elephant in the room. Nobody ever wanted to talk about it. Andy: Absolutely, yeah. But that's people with Ansari. It's like you've got that can-do attitude. Everybody wants to go out there, help the person in distress. That's ultimately why we're in the job, isn't it? So to say, Brian Johnson: good, yeah. Andy: oh no, we're not going out. Why don't we wait until the morning? It seems as a bit of a failure or weakness, but it's not. Brian Johnson: Well I think a lot of it comes down to the task, you get a call, it's wet or dry. Sometimes I've been given hospital jobs that were termed as wet by the mop. I didn't know whether it was raining there or not. An immediate job, an immediate hospital transfer, the casualty is not ready for another three hours and you go down to Uist to St Brendan's Hospital as we've all done in the past. Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: Now you can't even use the landing site. can't even use the landing site until you've got to go somewhere else. So, know, things change and sometimes the changes are really good and sometimes you kind of look at it when you think, you know, why we do this. Andy: Yeah, I think that's the best thing about SAR though, is like you go in on a shift and you have no idea what's gonna happen. Even halfway through a task and you have no idea what's gonna happen. It changes so often and you need to be that sort of person that can deal with those immediate changes. Brian Johnson: yeah, absolutely. I remember the guy who ran my transition team for me, guy called Ian Copley who's soon going to retire at Newquay. Very experienced hard diver, all that sort of stuff. And he floated for Bristow's before he came over to CEC. And I said, if you were going to recommend a base, he said Stonema. He said, I'd always go to Stonema. He said, because you get the most differentials there. He says, you go to Sumburgh, he says, I've done shifts at Sumburgh, he said, I've done Portland and all that, says, base, Southern base have got the merits, all that sort of stuff. He said, but if you want variety, go to Stornoy. And I think over Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: all the years I've been in and out of Stornoy, that's proved to be correct with good advice. Andy: Yeah, well we'll get to Stornoway in a little bit. So how long was it, Imbrunai, that you did before you ultimately decided Brian Johnson: Three years. Andy: you wanted to work with me and come to Stornoway? Brian Johnson: No, you didn't even feature in the thought process. Although I could still say, yes, you're absolutely right. Yeah. But no, Andy: That's the only reason why. Brian Johnson: we were given, when we went there first, the contract that was offered to us was two years plus two years, two plus two. So I was one of the first people to go out there. Wiggy Wigford was out there as the chief crewman. He went in the October, I went in the January, closely followed by a guy called Pat Holder in the February, and then the rest of them started to arrive in dribs and drabs by April 1st, because that was when we were supposed to go live. Now that was at Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: the stage then when the aircraft was in bits in Brisbane, that the S-92 encountered this minuscule thread light. cracks on the bars that supported the main rotor gearbox. And the aircraft had to be floated off the ground and then re-drilled to get rid of this. So it was two specialist teams going around the world to what was then one of the most popular aircraft in the world to repair them all. So that, in Raymond's terms, that brought in a year's delay of the introduction of SAR in Brunei. So we were, I'd actually been there 14 months before I flew in Brunei. in the S92 when it arrived. Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: So I suppose the reason I put it like that is because then I'm the first person who's going to come up and have the contract renegotiated after two years. And it wasn't a renegotiation, it was just a continuance of the contract for another two years. And that was fine. I'm just quite happy with that. But of course, being one of the first, I didn't know what was going to happen at the end of the second two years. And one of the things I hadn't appreciated when I went out there was the age of my daughter going to primary school and then going to secondary school and then being there long enough to think about what she was going to do about her exams, her all levels and A levels in Old English or Old Scottish. Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: So when I was getting towards halfway through towards the end of the third year, suppose, sat down with a chap about this in the house. And it would have meant that if my contract hadn't been continued, which it probably would have been because I mean, Gucci Harris, and that I mentioned before, he did eight years out there. Mario's just come back. He's the chief at Lee now. He did 10 years. Do you know what I mean? And run it down and stuff. So. there was probably the policy, there was the opportunity maybe to be there longer. Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: But if mine wasn't extended, long story short, I would have ended up coming back to the UK in January with her doing her row levels in the May and going to a different school, which would have been unacceptable. So we just pulled the plug Andy: Yeah, that's it, Brian Johnson: and you had to work in real full years because otherwise you paid stuff back, like travel and things that you were given. So we pulled the plug at the end of year three and came back. was, I mean, strangely enough, was, we were down in Australia when Sandy, in actual fact, saw the adverts for hoist-up Stonoy. And I said, oh, I'll maybe give him a ring and see what the score is. So of course, person I reached out to was Dixie, the chief crewman. He said, he says, well, you want to come here? I said, well, yeah, I said, because I'm in Brunei and stuff and I'm finishing. He says, right, when do you want to start? And I said, yeah, I said, well, no, Andy: Yeah, that's the length of the interview. That's all you needed to do. Brian Johnson: because I did actually have a formal interview with Dave Ellis and stuff and Dixie, but Dixie just says, right, okay, fine. And I said, right, okay, well, what are you going to do? So I'll speak to Dave Ellis and stuff. And then I did have an interview and then I was off at the job. And the greatest thing about that was apart from the fact that I got the job, was they let me stay in Brunei until my third year had finished so that I didn't have any upset. And then that was when, yeah, Andy: any sort of break in service and stuff like that. Brian Johnson: that's when we first met then. So that was when I walked through the door there. Andy: Yeah, what year was that? was, well, when I was in Stonaway that... Brian Johnson: 2017. Andy: Jeez. Yeah. Okay. That was a little while ago there. Brian Johnson: I only remember that because I went to Brunei in 2013, did three years, and I went from January to the January. So I finished early 2017 and then started, what, two or three weeks later. So I think I got there the third week in January of 2017. Having moved house to Inverness. Yeah. Double. Yeah. What Andy: It's time for summer. Brian Johnson: day in June was that? Andy: Yeah, it's marked on the calendar of everybody's life in Stornoway. Brian Johnson: Yeah, because most days it was all four seasons in an afternoon, wasn't it? Really. Andy: So now you are actually back working with bristos. Brian Johnson: Well that in actual fact is the first time I ever worked for Bristow's when Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: I went in there because I'd been a CHC man. I'd been CHC and ex-Navy. That was not the flavour. Andy: No, but Stornoway was a good mix of people, wasn't it? like, because it was, it gone through that Gapsar process and now it was like full UK SAR G1 flying in in 1992. We'd just introduced the goggles back into Stornoway because they were, in the Gapsar there was no MVGs. How we ever flew in the mountains at night with Brian Johnson: No, no requirement in the contract. Andy: no goggles. Brian Johnson: Yeah. Well, yeah, but I mean, look at 819, did start there. Glencoe, jobs up there at night, no goggles in the back of the Sea King, didn't have goggles. Goggles was a later introduction after the Junglies had them post the Falklands War, because they were the first people to use goggles then. But Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: yeah, so. Yeah, I. The one thing I really liked about Stornoy is I never once ever looked at a roster to see who I was on shift with. because it never bothered me. And then you listen to stories from other bases where clashes of personalities, this, that and the other, people were, oh, it's going to be a long shift. Never, never, ever thought that. Never, ever, ever thought that stole away. Never. Both Andy: No. Brian Johnson: in my sea days and in my Bristol's days. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Andy: Well, you see that it's like we looked at the roster to see what pilots were on. Brian Johnson: that's different. That's different. But there was only, there was only, there wasn't many of them you didn't want to fly with. Andy: No, like Stornoway was a really good mix of crews. It was like from all different backgrounds. Some locals, some transitional guys, some rotational guys coming in and out. Yeah, it was a really good mix. I thoroughly enjoyed my time in Stornoway and I had a massive increase in my skill set and knowledge when I moved to Stornoway from Aberdeen, from Bond days. like what I learned from Brian Johnson: yeah, look look. Andy: flying in the 92 and then going into the mountains and like you said, out into the Atlantic, that 200 mile jobs out, that really focused your attention. Brian Johnson: Yeah, well it's different. then you know the good thing about also being at Stonoway was the fact that there was a lot of experience there. A lot of people had been there, your Jerry Fanerys, your Tony Lanktons and people like that who had spent 20 years there, you know, there was nothing that there... I mean if Tony Lankton came back from a night job over the sea and he said that was difficult, it must have been difficult because generally he never said anything. He just went, yeah. whatever, you know, Andy: another job. Brian Johnson: that's right, yeah, that's right, yeah. As if he would even count, I'd be surprised, a bit like myself, I have no idea how many star jobs I've ever done. I've never sat down and counted them up, and I've no real interest in doing it because a job's a job and that's what you're there for. So, you know, and I... Andy: Yep. Yeah. As soon as me, I've not kept tally of any of the jobs or any of my flying hours. I was just going and do it. Brian Johnson: Well, I'm a bit, sitting with flying hours, I mean, when I finished in the Navy. I totaled it because you had to total up every month because it had to be signed by a senior person on the squadron, know, and then every three months, you see it was signed every month, Commander Air signed it every three months and the captain or whoever signed it every year or whatever it was at the time. And then so you always had totals. So when I finished on 848, when I finished I totaled up at the bottom. six and a half thousand hours or some shit like that, you know. And then I then, I'd already had my logbook extended and I had an extra pages put in it. So I religiously then just kept the same logbook running, cause it's about this thick now. And I kept filling it in and then strangely enough, because we're using ISAR, then you wouldn't sit down and do it every month. You wouldn't fill them in. trips every month, but do it once every three or four months. So I had a backlog of about four or five months to do when I left Stonaway and came to the island I had to start with. So I religiously for a couple of days and because I wanted to do it while I still had access to ISAR for the couple of months they give it to us, I filled it all in. And lo and behold when I got to page 350 or 400 I was filling in the last page and I thought, I'm going to run a line to you. And no I didn't. I finished one line from the bottom. Andy: That's a nice way to end it. Brian Johnson: And I'm just so amazed that after all these years, because bear in mind, I've been filling that logbook in since the 7th of May, 1976. Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: So I was actually flying on my 50th anniversary in Guyana, doing wet. Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: When I came back and I was talking to the in-country manager, a lovely fellow from Trinidad called Sean Weston, and I said, yeah, well, why you celebrate your anniversary? said, anniversary of what? I said, well, about a year's flight. He said, yeah, said, well, that's 50. And he nearly fell off his chair. went, what? Because he's a pilot himself. went, what? I said yeah. you know, so now, Andy: There's a lot of time in the air. Brian Johnson: yeah, so well, if you do, bear in mind that if you do, what was it, 8,880 something hours, that's a year airborne. Andy: well. Brian Johnson: So, you know, and then strangely enough for my birthday last year Freya bought me a log book because she says you haven't finished it off so I had to sit down before I left and I've got another in the new log book I've got I think it's just over 200 trips to put in there. Andy: That's Brian Johnson: So. Andy: a plan for retirement, Brian. Brian Johnson: Yeah great, I can think of better things. Well, find that doesn't Andy: Thank Brian Johnson: fit into most of my plans. Most of my plans are around cotton grass. Andy: Cotton grass and still diving. Brian Johnson: Yeah, well, yeah, I was diving two weeks ago. was in Tobago for six dives in Tobago because there's a bunch of us. Because bear in mind, the Guyanese are not renowned for their swimming skills. So when a lot of them came in, they virtually had to be taught to swim and then taken home from there. So I happen to mention that I was friendly with a guy who ran 3T, which was the Hewitt place up the road from us. I said I'm going up there, I've got a 14 foot deep hole, I've got some diving kit, I'm going to go up there. Can we come? Can we have a go? I said well let me go first, let me search it out and let me see if Derek who runs it, who is a lovely guy, who's a big diver, BSAC instructor, all that sort of stuff. I mentioned it, he says you bring them up any time you want. He says let's instigate, discover scuba days on a Sunday morning. He says and I'll come Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: up and open the pool up. says and so I managed to get them all. underwater on sets, all 10 of them, 11 of them, at that stage under the water. They loved it. And then the next thing know you sit in the crew room and they're going, can't dive in, can we? I said no because of the Demerara River and the sand and the silt and the shit and everything. No. And then a couple of the girls who are rescue servers now, Janelle and Tiffany. They had both worked for 3T as rescue divers. So they'd done the basic course. That was all they were required to do was the open water course. So they were keen to Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: do the advanced course. Other people wanted to do the open water. So again, long story short, we ended up in Tobago and spent a week there doing that. And they all pulled off well, the ones who could go, because you can't all go because the ship's to be done. Tiffany did her advanced and three of the lads did their open water and I just went running around. So it was good, yeah, really enjoyed it. Andy: Good. why did Stornoway come and end? What was your choice there? Brian Johnson: So we originally speaking were, when I went stoneway first we were renting a house on the outskirts of Inverness Andy: Mm-hmm. Brian Johnson: and we had a house in the Isle of Man and then we decided we'd sell the house in the Isle of Man because we had a bit of a pipe dream when we came back from Brunei to buy a plot of land and build one of these R houses somewhere in the Inverness area. And then the plans fell apart simply because of the fact that the figures that we projected for it were nowhere near adequate enough in terms of the fact that, you know, we'll buy a plot of land for 50k, no we won't, we'll have to buy one for 100k plus. And Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: the house would cost X and then it would be Y or Z. So we thought, right, we won't bother. And at that stage, my wife was working in the Armed Forces Careers Office at Inverness and Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: she wasn't enjoying it that much so she looked at getting a job so again long story short Faz Lane we moved down and we lived on the outskirts of Kilmacome and then she wasn't really enjoying what she was doing at Faz Lane so she says you know I might with my mum getting on a bit go back to the other man go back to the other man so again that's what we did so we came here so of course when you think of commuting to outskirts of Inverness and then you commute from somewhere outside Glasgow which was fine but then when you move to here so my commute to Stornoway would have been four hours on the ferry to Moorcombe then five or six hours drive and another two and half hours on the ferry from Annapil Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: it was like nah nah right Brian how old are you? old are you? Andy: Don't need to do that for the rest of your days. Brian Johnson: 67 yeah Okay, fine. Let's bin it. So that's what I did. I just put my notice in and I left. With a very sad heart because there certainly was nobody in the organisation pushing me out the door. So, which was very refreshing. If you're that old and you can still do the job, you know, they'll let you get on with it. Which, you know, hats off to Andy Aspin and his team for that, you know. And so, we came back. Andy: Yeah, that's only because you were in Starnoway though, Brian. You were just out the way in. Brian Johnson: Yeah, well that's true. It might have been a little bit different if I was on one of the more notable bases. Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: So we moved here. We rented a house here in the short term. We subsequently bought a cottage which is something I've wastewater for a long time. Andy: Mm-hmm. Brian Johnson: It slowly but surely fallen down around our ears and we're just having to rebuild it. That's a when required type sketch. Yes, Andy: That's houses. Brian Johnson: indeed. Especially when it's 160 year old. But there we are. So and then that was me. As far as I was concerned, that was it. And then I was in a situation there when the phone rang and an old mate of mine, Keith Devaney said, look, I've got this coming off. Would you be interested? And I said, yeah. And once we got it narrowed down to going to the right continent, because the first initial conversation was, well, you're off to Ghana. I I've never been to Africa before. And then there was a bit of a think bubble. They rang me back a couple of days later. said, now I can understand this confusion. I'll come to that in a second. Because they said, no, you're going to Guyana. South America. The way it got confused was the fact that the capital city of Guyana is place called Georgetown. The name of the area in Ghana where the airfield is is called Georgetown. Andy: huh. Brian Johnson: So, I think Annie's Irish, so you can get his mistake. So long Andy: You Brian Johnson: story short, that New Year, 29th of December, I flew to Guyana. And that Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: was it. And I did that for a few months and then I was ill with this AF thing. So I came home, got Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: that sorted out and then lo and behold from yet another and then that was Heliops contract finished there because it went to a Canadian company called TRS who went in to train Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: the crewmen and then Omni, the Portuguese Brazilian company who I've just been working for, they decided at a point, I saw our well appointed two people in actual fact a pilot as the global sour man and a crewman which was Greg Dagnall and he had a conversation with a mutual friend of ours, Paddy McClendon, who said well if you're going to Guyale you should have a chat with BJ because he's just been there so he rang me up Andy: You Brian Johnson: he says you fancy coming out and giving us a hand and that's where I've been for the last 20 something months Andy: Yeah, and our training capacity, well, operational and training capacity, isn't it? Brian Johnson: Yeah, limited saw, not all weather saw from 12 hour shifts, 5 in the morning to 5 at night with a training element. Again, a bit like we discussed about Bruneianisation, you've got Dionisation here I suppose, or there. yeah, so we've trained, initially speaking TRS trained 5. We furthered our training a little bit when Greg took over. Then since then we've taken on another four, so there's nine of them there in total. They've all been, they were all trained primarily as rescue swimmers. Four of them now have done hoist-up training. In fact, that was the kind of curtain call for me, was finishing off the last course of two hoist-ups and two rescue swimmers. And Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: that finished, what, three or four weeks ago, and now they're into sort of mentorship to get to their CFC at 70 hours and stuff. and go forward from there. Andy: Okay. So you feel that this is like a natural end of flying for you? Brian Johnson: Yeah, yeah, I suppose it is really. I mean, you've got to stop. I just love what I do. I mean, I could get up every morning and go to work and it would make no difference to me because I haven't got a retirement plan. I haven't got like, well, what I'll do is I'll do this and then I'll do that and then I'll do this. DIY. I have a DIY expert in my house and it's not me. It's my darling wife. So, you know, at the end of the day, she's the person who does all that. And in fact, I just get ignored, completely disdained. Just don't touch it. Leave it. Leave it. Because I won't have to redo it again. This is the general war crime. Which, Andy: and polish the bike. Brian Johnson: yeah, which is true. And of course, here we are in June with it pouring down with rain. And my two main things that I do enjoy doing is, A, getting out on the mountain bike, which we did yesterday, and, you know, getting out on a motorbike. So for six months of the year here, yeah, and diving. And the water's too cold here. It's a survival course, diving in the Isle of Man, although the visibility is good. There's a lot of marine life and all that sort of stuff. Freya's tried it, but it's a dry suit job, and I just can't be bothered. So the next Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: time I'll probably go diving is I'm going off to Sri Lanka for Christmas and I'll dive there because it's 28, 29 degrees. Andy: Very nice, very nice. Brian Johnson: So. Andy: And no plans to move abroad? Or you more than happy where you are? Brian Johnson: No, my mother-in-law is 83, 82, 83. She lives at the other side of the island. It's handy to be here near her mum. So Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: I can't see why we'd move. now, interestingly enough, Freya's come home and she's just started working for the government here. So I'm not sure how long she'll do that for. She has got a science degree and she does like science and she's very, she loves the water, she loves the diving. She did a contract last year with Bermuda Institute of Ocean Sciences doing reef ecology in Bermuda diving out there. So I think if she got the chance to go back and do that, but she's on a reality pill in the fact that she thinks she should get a job now for a period of years and earn some money. as opposed to dot and a 8. Yeah, indeed, yeah. So in answer Andy: She's become an adult. Yeah, as they all do. Yeah, as my two have as well. Brian Johnson: to your question, I think I can't see us moving that far from the Alamance. Andy: No. Might you have had a long and interesting career and worked in very many places and worked with so many people. I asked, there's like three or four questions that I'll ask you now. First one is. If there's that one job that pops into your head when somebody says to you, tell me about search and rescue. What's the best job that you've done or the scariest job you've done? You've got lots of jobs, but what's that one job that sticks in your brain? No. Brian Johnson: Haven't got one. Strange enough, I was having this conversation yesterday when Freya was trying to quiz me. And my answer to her after a lot of consideration is that in all the jobs that you do, there are ones which you go to where you're expecting a high degree of difficulty, but you don't get it and it becomes easier than you thought it was going to be. And then you go on some jobs which are you're expecting to be easy. Oh, we're going to go into this. And as you alluded to earlier on, there's something you said where every job is different and then it changes halfway through. Those are the jobs then that kind of spring to mind. But after a while, all these jobs just... Because I don't think there's anything to hang your hat on. If you've gone on a job and you've got an award and you've done something... and somebody's recognized it and all that sort of stuff. They're the ones that tend to stick in your mind. The job that really stick in my mind is when you put them into degrees of difficulty. If you're going to go to this fabled 200 miles off at two o'clock in the morning on a Force 8, 9, 10 or whatever it is and you do that, that's always going to stick in your mind. It's difficult, but they all pale into it because they're all kind of the same. You know, if it's a big vessel and it's not moving around, The weather doesn't make that much difference because it's that bit easier. If it's a 30 foot fishing boat, you know, and so on and so forth, that sticks in your mind because it's harder to get the rescue swimmer or the winchman onto. And I've always felt that my job as a hoist up was to deliver the winchman rescue swimmer to do what he's got to do safely and get him back safely with a casualty. And every job then... sticks in your mind which has been a success. And luckily enough, there's never been many failures. You know, I've never brought back a badly damaged rescue swimmer, winchman. I've never delivered one and then had to recover him and so on and so forth. for me, are the memories. And then, you know, you can go down to the northern side of Ben Nevis at three o'clock in the morning and then you're in another world, for me, you're just in another world of hurt. because there's so much that can then go wrong. The only thing about grace is it's not bloody moving. Andy: Yeah, just the aircraft moves a little bit more sometimes, doesn't it? Brian Johnson: Well, indeed, yeah, because of turbulence, whichever end you're at, it's still difficult. And then you can get all the way down to the mundane stuff or go to St Brendan's hospital and you just pick someone up, take them down. But then you look back on those jobs and you think everything we do for all of these people makes a difference. So every job is memorable in its own right. It might be something as mundane as that. and it's taking you all night to get down and go round the sky because of the weather and get up the Clyde and go to Glasgow Airport and all that sort of stuff. It doesn't matter, they're just old jobs. Andy: Yeah, I think that we sometimes forget that the people that were helping on those days, that's probably the worst day in their life. And we are maybe a little bit blasé about it and what we do and how we approach those jobs. But we're really helping those people, even if it is just a hospital transfer to an appropriate clinic for them. But the amount of planning and discussion and CRM and teamwork that goes into effect in that transfer or that those rescues or that north side of the bend, is a lot of work and that's where the skill comes into it. Brian Johnson: Yeah, but we take it a little bit for granted because that famous adage, know, train hard, fly easy. I mean, you can go and watch people training and they do the bare minimum. You know, they just go up, we have got a deck to do, let's go and find something big and stable. We'll go to that. Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: The weather's quite benign and so on. Well, that is training. Well, no, what that's giving you is currency and recency. But what it's not giving you is any form of a challenge that you've then got used to it. I used to love flying at stone away with the likes of, Simon Fraser, because he'd purposely wait for a really windy day and then go and find something really small. And then we'd go and try and affect something to it. And I was all for that, because then when you go and do it for real, you think, I did one of these the other day. Andy: Yeah, you can draw upon that experience, can't you? It's like, Brian Johnson: Yeah, indeed, Andy: there's the currency competency rule all the time. It's like, it's very easy just to go out and do tick-box currencies. Brian Johnson: That's what's missing when you get involved in limited saw because the opportunities to go and do stuff that test you are very difficult. You get people to a level and they never get back. mean, Guyana is a great example of that. You're away for a month, you go back, you sit there, you look at the first tar. You don't even have to read it. The wind will be somewhere between 070 and 090 at 10 knots. The sea temperature will be this. The sea state will be this, it's always the same. You tend to go to the vessels opportunity decks, tend to be an anchor. Now those can be quite difficult to do, but they're nowhere near as difficult as what you would be doing somewhere off Stornoway or somewhere on a winter's day or any other base that's got a moving sea around it. So, and then you don't get the chance to test yourself, you just end up in a situation where, you know, you're just there. and you're just having to go through it and that's you getting currency. It's not getting you anything else. Andy: Yeah. And that's when accidents happen, when those unforeseen circumstances come about and those unforeseen weather conditions when you have to go out on the day of the races. Brian Johnson: Yeah, well your muscle memory goes, don't you? You're in a situation where you're used to things doing things and then it doesn't happen and then that throws you. I mean that's that great thing in CRM. Yeah, yeah. Well it's that great thing, Andy: Yeah, your capacity level goes down and skill levels come down. Yeah, absolutely. Brian Johnson: the word that they love to use in CRM, the startle, you know, where something happens that hasn't happened to you for a long time and you've got that pause of two or three marching paces where... you're collecting your thoughts. And this is the time when you tend to use a few four letter expletives because that's Andy: you Brian Johnson: how most people register startle. But then it's the delay then that comes in. If you've got it on the other end of the wire, if you've got, if you've got not a great deal of muscle memory as a winchman rescues from where you're holding your hands, what are we looking at from the top down? What are you thinking about? What are you expecting? And it doesn't happen, you know? Yeah, that's Andy: Yep, Brian Johnson: it. Andy: yep, that's a bad day at the office. Brian Johnson: Yes, indeed. Andy: Okay, so you've got many funnier story, but like a lot of people are saying on this podcast, a lot of the funny stories happen in the base and it's between the crews or just when you're out training and you're flying. There's not very many funny stories that happens on jobs. you... Brian Johnson: Well, there isn't really. mean, you're either there or you hear about them happening to other people for some odd reason. I mean, the Andy: you Brian Johnson: Wessex 5 used to be a great SAR aircraft. And what made it really good was the fact that the pilot and the crew were completely detached. He's sitting up front and all you can see is calf muscles in his flying boots because he's sitting up here. So Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: you used to have great jobs where you used to go out and practice speechless, for instance. So to do speechless in a WES X-5, you had to climb out of the aircraft, go up the side of the aircraft and stand on the big main wheel. And in the summer, most of WES X-5 pilots would fly with the window open. So you could actually tap them on the shoulder and then start to give them hand signals. So then you would have derivatives of that where you would go to a joke shop and buy one of those big hands with claws on it with air and then grab them by the shoulder with that. And then their response would be to put the wheel brakes off. So then the wheel would start to spin that you're stood on. And you're actually running on the spot trying to give hand signals with this, you know, big hand on and stuff like that. And then of course they're a bit devolved then from what's happening in the back. So you get a situation where you've got a czar crew who have gone out, they've picked somebody up and I know these two people I won't mention their names but there again it was 50 years ago and they're sitting there and they've gone out in search for this person, they've found him. They got them in the aircraft and they've covered them up with a blanket. So they're sitting on the long left hand seat of the Wessex boy. The other side there's no seats. There's a stretcher there with a person in it who has got a blanket over the top of them. Because as far as everyone's concerned, they're dead. Andy: Uh-huh. Brian Johnson: What's on your bag mail? I don't know. So they get their bag mails out and they put their bag mails on top of the cover that's over the top of the person, right? Halfway through the second sandwich, this person sits up and he's not dead at all. So you can imagine, and then you're sitting in the crew room and they come back and they walk in and they go, you're never gonna believe what's happened to us. And then they tell you the story, you know, and little things. I I think why most... funny stories and things come from the base is because of the amount of time you spend on the base waiting for something to happen. So what you want to do is you want to fill in, you know, and make things funny. And then you get to the likes of people like John Spencer. You probably heard of John, he was a sword diver, won the Queen's Gallantry Medal twice in six weeks, all Andy: I've heard the name never. Brian Johnson: that sort of stuff. But he is just one of these people who plans these things. know, and with a great story at 7-7-2 many, many years ago, a guy goes to Australia. He goes there for six weeks on holiday. Now, if this person watches this podcast, this person will know exactly who's been talked about. And he goes to Australia to his folks because they immigrated many years before. when he came back and he always had a little bit of a belly, a little bit of a turkey smuggler and so what they did was they took his flying suit into a tailors and took quarter of an inch off the four dots at the back. So he comes back from his six weeks he puts it on most people we were all in the same changing room you know because it's just before the morning brief everyone's getting changed and everyone's got a weather eye because most of them well some people knew this was going on I must admit time I did not and then so he puts them on goes, you hand me some truck on this, better be able to get on the treadmill. So they did this to him three times over the next three to four months and what nobody realised in the background was that this person was quite worried about this so he went to the chief crewman of the squadron at the time who was a SAR diver who said to him well I'll get you some weight loss. powder. But what he actually got him was weight gain powder. And this went on for six months before they told him. that's end. Everyone was apart from him who was pissed off to start with. And then luckily enough, he saw the funny side of it because he's that sort of guy. But those were the sort of stories. I mean, you would regularly walk in there and you go to your locker and you look down the room and you think, there's a guy, where's my locker gone? And on the wall would be a post-it with a sheet number and a grid reference. And that's where you find your locker. And sometimes that could Andy: you Brian Johnson: be as far away as southern Dartmouth. Because an aircraft was going to follow the group. Yes, Andy: That's great for an AVEX. Brian Johnson: indeed, know, and stuff like that. There was lots of things. We used to deploy to Norway for winter training in the jungle world. And they had a competition up there with the local Norwegian guys. They painted an upright piano red. and then they'd take it to a location, stick it somewhere in a field of snow, on some mountain, and then you'd have to go and find it. And then when you found it, you'd move it, and then you'd tell them you'd moved it, and that spent the whole winter as you were flying around. You were always looking for this bloody red piano. And strangely enough, I never thought anything about it. I went for my interview as the Chief Crewman Standards in Ireland at Dublin, and one of the flight ops managers there had come over for the interview process was Norwegian. He was stood outside the hotel door and I thought to myself, I recognise that, I'm sure I know him from somewhere. So I thought I'd go and ask him. I didn't realise he had anything to do with CCC Ireland. I said, I'm sorry, I don't want to invade your space, but I know you from somewhere. And he spoke in Norwegian, said, were you at Baldifoss? And he went, yeah, he said I was a squadron CO. I said, red piano. And then we had a 20 minute conversation about red pianos. And then I went back in for my interview and I he should be sitting on the interview panel, but him. Andy: You Brian Johnson: So it is a small world in terms of Andy: Well, talking about small worlds, it's like what we were talking about leading up to this podcast, wasn't it? Is the community is far too small and you're either known and what was it you said that the community is too small for any false stories like? Brian Johnson: Yeah, you're too easily caught out. I mean, if you've got a funny story and it is genuinely a funny story to tell it, you might as well just turn and say, look, I heard this. I was on the squadron when this happened. I was not part of this, but I can tell you the story. Then it's the best way to do it. There's no point in trying to, it's like when people talk about rescues and all of a sudden it's like they've written a novel and have superimposed themselves into the rescue. Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: What is the point? And everyone sits there and goes, well you weren't there, so how would you know? How would you know? Andy: Yeah, how would you know? How would you know? The community is very small and in the whole world SAR community is small but in the UK alone there's a lot of history of SAR in the UK but yeah everybody knows everybody. Brian Johnson: Well, if you think that, if you quantify that into numbers and think of how many people are involved in SAR in the UK and how many people are involved in all weather SAR all over the world, it's probably less than 500 people. So, you know. Andy: Better unique job, isn't it? Brian Johnson: Well, it is certainly in some places it seems to be, but then again, you never get much visibility. mean, you go to when the RAF used to have the SAR seminars every year, know, the SAR command days, whatever they used to call it, the SAR meet. And you go down there, they have guest speakers there and you get people in and you'd have people there. I remember listening to a guy who came over and he spoke about Katrina and the aftermath of Katrina and the difference between the Coast Guard and the DOD. and all that sort of stuff. And he says, you Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: do have to bear in mind, says, lots of people seem to think that the Coast Guard in the US is primarily for search and rescue. He says, it's number five on our KPI list. Not one, but five. He says, so we, put us up there as the experts. He said, but we're not really, it's part of a lot of other things we do, drug enforcement, border interdiction, da da da da, and all that sort of stuff. Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: And he told some fantastic stories about Katrina and all the mistakes and everything else. At one stage they had a 25 kilometre square and had 165 helicopters in that space. Andy: Wow, busy time. Brian Johnson: Yeah. Andy: is one of the things that I would like to do in my career is to go across to the US, Canada and see some of the sour stuff out there. Maybe eventually work out there, who knows. Brian Johnson: Well, yeah, why not? mean, one of the lead instructors in TRS is an Irish Air Corps guy, you know, who's teaching SAR out Andy: Yeah. Brian Johnson: there. I think, unfortunately, the places are getting... Now with the helicopter company folding, everyone coming back from Saudi and stuff, and things like that, maybe the country is now getting just a little bit smaller. The world is getting a little bit smaller, should I say, where you've got the opportunity to go and do that. Brunei is gone now, that's all finished there doing that with the Air Force there and stuff. you know, who knows? Andy: Yeah, things are definitely changing again, aren't they? With all your years of experience in SAR and meeting all the people that you've met, what words of wisdom would you give to any person wanting to get into sexual arrest? know, it's like completely changed, like the way to enter into SAR. But what would you say, what sort of person is suitable for SAR and what advice would you give? Brian Johnson: Well, I think I can answer that in two ways. The first one is my era, which is gone. So you had a bunch of people who had been trained in the services to do SAR. Now, I'm having a conversation with someone who wasn't, so it's quite relevant, really. So you did all these years, some of it would be SAR, because very, very few people from my neck of the woods, from the Navy side of things, spent years and years and years in SAR. SAR divers did because you couldn't get many of them. So when they would come up for frontline service to be sent, the draft would be cancelled because they had no one to replace them because there was nobody wanted to do it. There was just this small cadre of people, which is fine. you have Dave Wallace and all these people. I did my basic flying training with Dave Wallace in 76 and he spent very little time frontline and some people go, well, well, but that was just the way the world was. he can't change that, he's just doing what he's doing. And then you leave and then you get involved with Bristow's or whatever because the person who's running it is either ex-REF but then more often it was an ex-SAR diver so you had more SAR divers and everything in Bristow's and then they did that until they retired and that was your throughput, that was your career. Loads and loads of people have done that. You go to the young people now in Bristow's who've come through the cadet ships and stuff, you know... James Valance, all these guys, they're fantastic. Medical, without, know, absolutely up there without, peer group's very small because they're so well trained and they love it so much that they go off, you know, I am back down to Glasgow or I'm going to Aberdeen, I'm out in the ambulances, I'm driving a car, I'm doing this, doing that. Nobody's asking them to do that, they just do it because it keeps their skills up and they love it. And yet they do all this other stuff. But ask them how long you see themselves being in SAR and some of them will go five years. Because I'm going to go and this. Because their focus has changed. Andy: yeah, that's quite common now, isn't it? Brian Johnson: Their focus has changed. So that's the different people you're getting in SAR now. And of course, I remember when we were doing the bid process for SAR-H, the 25 year contract. somebody asked me a question at a meeting. said, and what about recruitment? I said, there is your biggest problem. for the next 25 years because you're not going to get all, there's going to be no, no catchment area from the, from the military coming. Do you know what I mean? So the answer to question in fullness is if you get the chance to do it, go and do it because when you do it, you'll find that you really love it. And it's the best aviation you can do. It's the most interesting. It's the most challenging. and it keeps you fixated on what you're doing and concentrate all the time because I can assure you when it's over, it's over. Andy: Yeah, and you will regret not doing it and miss every day of it. The Brian Johnson: absolutely. Andy: people that you get to meet, the experiences that you get, the places you get to go, opportunities, yeah, it's amazing. Brian Johnson: The camaraderie is amazing and it makes it difficult, strangely enough, if you end up in a management role because SAR is such an emotive issue. know, people have opinions on it. They've done certain things. They've done things a certain way. They found these systems work. Somebody comes along, tries to change those systems. They go, don't really understand why you're bringing that in because we've never had a problem with this before. and I don't see we're going to have a problem in the future because if you think all the way back to the 50s, and I said this when we brought the 92 into service at Stornoway as the first base, I've not come here to teach you to do search and rescue, you can all do that, we've been here for years doing it, I wouldn't have the temerity to do that, I just want to teach you how to do it in a different aircraft with different aids. But the job's still the same, go to the 50s, hoist someone off something, what are you doing now? Hoisting somebody off something. Andy: Yeah, exactly. Brian Johnson: I mean look at hoists. I mean the hoists now are state of the art pieces of kit that you know no matter how much you try to make a mistake it's difficult you've got safety clutches you've got this you've got that. Higher speeds. They're as fast Andy: Yep. Brian Johnson: as they need to be now they never need to be any faster you know and stuff like that so everything's there no do it if you get the chance to do it somebody says go and do saw and you watch people sometimes in the interview process who have gone to the trouble. of knowing nothing about SAR or aviation. They've flown themselves to Australia, they've done the 32 hour course, they've come back and it breaks your heart that you can't give them a job because they don't have three months experience or 12 months experience as laid down by a contract. You know? So if they get the opportunity go and do it. Yeah, absolutely. Seize it. CarPDM. Andy: Yep. Perfect. Carpe diem, absolutely. And one last question for you, and I will let you get about your day is if there's somebody that you think that would be really good for stories and their career, who would you recommend to come on the podcast? Brian Johnson: Well, I can think of loads of people. I've mentioned him once already. Who's a natural raconteur anyway, Neil Harrison. He's a highly established, highly effective, highly respected rescue swimmer, or winchman paramedic. And he was my medical person as my standards man for eight years. And I have the utmost respect for him. And yet he is an ex-crab. Andy: Can't have everything. Brian Johnson: It kills me to say it, but the likes of him, Mario Testa, all the people I'd never met from out with the Navy, from the RAF, who came and worked for me in the early days, they were fantastic. Really professional. You would never walk in anywhere and not see Mario Testa reading some form of medical journal or whatever. And Gucci Andy: Okay. Brian Johnson: never seemed to pick one up, but he still knew everything. and he was just rapid fire. He's got stories, he's got two Billy Deacons and a bunch of other stuff. I think one genre or one cadre or cohort of person you really need to get an interview with is a sore diver. An old school star diver. Dave Wallace. Shaina Wright. Ian Copley. Pete Gibbs. Ian Robertson. Guys like that. Andy: I will get a list of names off you and I will let you contact them and cajole them into coming onto the podcast. Brian Johnson: Well, mean, unfortunately, I mean, Pete Gibbs lives in Canada now, so he's a bit more difficult to probably tie down. Ian Robertson was swimming. He's still diving. He's well into his seventies. He's got his own dive company in Malague, and he was in a swimming pool the other week and they arrested him in the swimming pool. They shocked Andy: Oof. Brian Johnson: him nine times by the pool. Andy: Geez. Brian Johnson: Shocked him three times in the aircraft getting to Inverness. And on the sixth shot, in the A &E and Greg Moore, gave up. What did he do? He came round on his own. Andy: You Brian Johnson: but he's just had a pacemaker fit in. they're boys who will take you all the way back to Fastnet. Gibbs spent a night with three live and two dead in a life raft in the southwestern approaches in a howling gale and was picked up the following day. There's John Spencer, know? John Spencer was a legend. mean, some of the rescues he'd done, all out of Lee and stuff and in the Solon. are incredible, absolutely incredible. Even swimming through 3,000 tonnes of mud to rescue two people who had never dived and get them back out through 3,000 tonnes of mud in a barge, an upturn barge, stuff like that. Andy: Yeah. Well. Brian Johnson: They're the sort of people that are the... Because I'm a firm believer, I think the hoist operator can add great stories, great observations and stuff, because we are observing and doing. But it's the people at the end of the wire who are really, really doing, because their job starts once you've delivered them. You know what mean? I think Star Divers are a good cut, or any winchman, but I believe Star Divers will add a lot of stories to what you want. Andy: Great. Well, I will get a list of those names and we will try and get them on the podcast and we'll get some good stories. Brian Johnson: Okay. Andy: Brilliant. Mate, thank you very much. It's been an absolute pleasure listening to your full story. I've known you for years, but to know your whole background has been absolute insight. Thank you. Brian Johnson: No? Okay, welcome. Loved it. Thank you. See you soon. Cheers mate. Bye bye mate. Bye bye. Andy: Perfect. OK, we'll sign off there. Thanks very much. See you at night. Bye.