Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: My guest today is Mo Abouelsoud from U The Mind. Thank you very much for your time, Mo. You came up with the core idea for your company while eating a burrito, most people would expect ideas for business like this to come up in a lab. What were you reading or thinking about that day and what clicked?

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Yeah. So you for having me. I remembering a paper called Temporal Interference. It was a paper that was published from MIT. ⁓ It was about a way to intersect electric inside the brain. ⁓ And I was eating my burrito at Chipotle I saw a vent on the wall. And I imagine that vent as an electrode array on the brain creating fields. So that's actually how the company got started by envisioning electric field therapy, electric field rivers inside the brain. By the way, you told me that in Australia, you guys don't have Chipotle?

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: No, well, unless it's in the city. said publicly that technology that you're building has saved your life, ⁓ helped with your bipolar disorder. much of the company's direction has been shaped by your own experience and guess balancing what want and what market or investors want out of this?

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Yeah, that's a great question. So I have a very strong emotion towards building this company because of how much it saved my life and learning how to transition from being a founder to being a CEO is very critical because I now have to develop systems of capital allocation, operational procedures to carry out specific tasks within the company. And I have to learn to let go. have to actually start learning to do less. When you're a founder, you're in the hustle, hustle, hustle. What more can I do? You're in the CEO position. You think more smarter and say, what less can I do? How can I systemize this? And so that even though I was the founder of the company, I transitioned to being the CEO of the company, transitioned to be someone scaling our organization up. A lot of our investors. are very happy with the work that we've been producing. We produce it at a very fast pace and we produce it at a very low cost. We do a lot of very highly effective clinical trials that support all of our work. So ⁓ I've learned to deal with investors as another customer, proving that their money is being put into good use.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: So you were in your twenties when you this and now you're running clinical trials, navigating the FDA, ⁓ the regulation. I think your team is across six countries. Is that correct?

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Yeah, we have people in South America, we have people in India, Middle East. We have an advisor in Europe, in the UK, a lot of people in India and across the United States. we are a very diverse company, diverse thinking, as well as diverse time zones for our meetings.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: I could imagine you would have had to convince some serious scientists to back what you're doing and to come on board. Your team is quite powerful. When I look at the credentials and the experience of the people involved, how did you attract them to what you were doing?

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Yeah, so it was more about showing them the science and showing them the data. So as we continue to scale, it was important for me to get validation from people who've done it before, people who've run trials before. So I made it an effort to reach out to medical doctors, physicians, and PhDs in the field to be able to become advisors for our company. But we have a very strong team of individuals. that we are very grateful for guiding all of our operations.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: followed the development of Neuralink quite closely and been a big fan. ⁓ I can see obviously that yours is non-invasive. ⁓ sort of decisions were involved there and ⁓ the benefit of the way that you're approaching the work?

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Yeah. So Neuralink is a great company for the public to understand what we're doing. So Neuralink aims to connect the brain to a computerized system, use the computer to help to connect the brain to the computer systems. And it has to do it through surgery. And so we aim to do that from the outside of the brain. Now we have a different set of patients that are targeting more quadriplegic locked in syndrome and we are to looking at more Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease, as well as for cognitive enhancement. It's the same class of technology called a neuro technology or brain technology that we're the umbrella that we sit under. So that's why we say people think of us as the noninvasive Neura link as the way to connect the brain and modulate the brain, grow the brain without the surgery. The decisions around that were, mean, ⁓ surgery is difficult. because I mean, even commercially at scale, getting it through several different regulatory hurdles to be able to surgically implant someone, has to be a medical need. The common public wouldn't be able to just get this immediately. Very expensive. Also, we have to think of the tune-ups and the upgrades. So what if there's a plant, what if there's a chip upgrade, right? Or this myriad of problems that can arise from surgery. However, surgery is an excellent solution for certain patients because it's the only way to get them to communicate with the outside world. But for the average citizen, for the average human, you don't need to do surgery initially to be able to experience brain tech.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: So am I correct in understanding that what you are building as far as a consumer option is not for sale yet, you're still navigating the regulations on that, but the price point you're expecting is about $350, is that right?

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Actually, it is for sale. the consumer product is actually, we're getting a new set of prototypes in next few days, but the consumer product is available for sale. It's a much lower powered version than our medical products. ⁓ it has, the actual physics of the device is very, very different. So it's a lot more user friendly. And so that is used just for wellness applications. balancing neurotransmitter levels, as well as enhancing focus and cognition in athletes. So that's more of our athletic consumer product, but that is available for sale right now on our website.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: That's so interesting. can see applications for that for people, entrepreneurs as well, not just athletes.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: We have a lot of biohackers and CEOs and ⁓ high performing individuals that want to get that next cognitive edge. We wanted to have a price point that is accepting for different economics. And it's a good entry into the world of neuromodulation. You know, you want to be able to test out something of high quality from coming from high science, ⁓ test it out a budget. And that ⁓ once ⁓ the understands usefulness can upgrade to further We're actually coming up with a device coming out in the next few months that will be recording and stimulating at the same time. And so that will be the next level of tech available for the public.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: You're doing the serious research and then you've got the direct consumer. How do you manage like they're different I would ⁓ you know, in marketing, normally we say one target audience, one message, one benefit to keep it simple for people. Do you. Does marketing sort of to patients look completely different to marketing the consumer side?

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: ⁓ yes, no. So yes, it has a different set of language. One is oriented towards Parkinson's disease. Well, one is more for cognitive applications, but also no, because it's under the same class of brain stim technology. So brain stimulation in general, brain stimulation is not disease specific or person specific. So we have a PR team that we work with that is able to push out our medical tech into the clinical atmosphere. as well as putting out consumer applications into the consumer sector. So it really depends upon who's looking at our website, but on our website, we come as a brain stimulation company coming out and developing advanced brain stem and neurotech products. We have other types of neurotechnology products, including in the field of AI image diagnostics that we're working on. So we want to be seen as a holistic brain science company.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: So moving at such a fast pace with the AI too. ⁓ Just imagine the potential of what you're going to be able to do will be massive, even within six months.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Yeah, it's like, it's growing really fast. Everybody's adopting it. It's becoming the new normal right now, making sure that data integrity is secure is of utmost importance.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: You're also doing outreach into the schools. I'm wondering how on earth you find time to do that ⁓ and how you prioritize that. ⁓

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Yeah, it's really fun actually. You know, these, we go to elementary schools, middle schools, high schools. They actually know me as Mohawk Mo. So that's the thing here. Yeah, we present, we sometimes play games like build candy neurons, neurons out of candy. We just had a presentation two weeks ago at high school. They gave a shark tank like competition. So everybody came up with a business idea. and give a short tag pitch. So we had a little competition. So it was really fun. It's really good to engage with the future generation, be able to educate them about the future of the world.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: It's that you're making the time to do that as well as just, you know, doing the business of things. ⁓ if you were to strip away as far as marketing U The Mind and you could have one. One channel to market it on which would you stick with what what is the most powerful for you right now?

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: We to go into the Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease applications. We have great clinical data. However, it requires a lot of funding to be able to get the pivotal trials. So we are releasing a consumer tech to be to fund those operations and gain traction in the marketplace. But, you know, anybody who sees our site knows that we're a serious medical company and know that we're doing serious business ⁓ in this field. And so. that provides a lot more confidence and validity even to our consumer wellness tech because we have ⁓ very powerful data coming from very powerful people in the field of neuroscience. So the same minds behind our advanced Parkinson's disease tech are the same minds behind the consumer wellness athletic applications. So you know it's coming from a real ⁓ knowledgeable place.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: It's a really smart angle to come from. I mean, it's the truth, isn't it? As you say, it's same brain behind it and it just spills down so people can, as you say, ⁓ their toe in and start to ⁓ what's possible and then step up from there as bring out more possibilities. love ⁓ If ⁓ clearly the science, but also, I guess, have to be the salesperson, do you feel that at all? Or is it really just sharing naturally what you're doing? How does that sort of play out?

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Yeah, no, I exactly. So when I transitioned to being a CEO, I'm not as, you know, I'm a scientist still, but I'm now a businessman. got to do, I got to sell the product. And when you're speaking to an audience that doesn't have the same vocabulary as you per se, you have to use different concepts and different ideas and explain it with expressions and ⁓ emotion, which is very important. I love to sell and not because I would say I'm a salesman, but because I believe in the product. And so it's very easy to sell. You know, it's very easy to tell people like, listen, you got to try this. This is some very powerful stuff. Like this is, this is going to revolutionize everything. So now I love to, I love people when they start using the product. and they start to like use it after three weeks, six weeks, nine weeks, and they start to get that buildup in their brain of like cognitive power, cognitive processing speed, and they start to see everything I'm talking about. So they're like, ⁓ now I know why this guy is like preaching against me. I'm like, yeah, right? Like now everybody understands. So I'm glad that same page.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: easier when you, when you have that genuine mission instead of just trying to sell something to make money. But then also it can be difficult bottling and experience in an ad, you know, so I guess like that feedback from people is the strongest approach to help spread the word about what's possible for other people to try it. So that's really cool. Yeah. Feedbacks. think that would just be the golden and that's where in marketing speak, you know, the ad copy would write itself. You don't have to say, you don't have to come up with anything because people are telling you about it and you just use what they say. So yeah.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Right, they're giving us the phrases. So we run a lot of neuroimaging studies. So we do have data showing brain activation changes before and after stimulation. So it's not just ⁓ bottling up something invisible, which was true initially, but not now, ever since we have clinical data.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: It's true. If you lead lead with the story so people can get an idea of, you know, ⁓ the possibility of experience, the amazing things that in their brain and then ⁓ back it up with data because we like that other side of our brain likes the logical here I'm talking to a neuroscientist. ⁓

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: This is exactly right.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: Yeah, entertain first and then justify it or prove it with the logic, I guess, so that we feel good about it.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: We must speak to the emotions of people first. Yeah. So we have to communicate it with an emotional concept.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: It's very interesting to me that the tools and the AI and know, lightning speed, everything changes, but those sorts of fundamentals of the way that we receive information or the way we're convinced of a new idea, they don't change at all ⁓ and just can be applied anywhere. Yeah. So ⁓ you want to make advanced neurological care accessible to underserved populations globally. I love the mission. It's a big one. You've already. started and made inroads there, tell me about that.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Yes, know, there is a need globally to provide advanced medical tech, not just the neurological field. And being able to do this through our commercialization actually allows us to do two things. Number one, we help patients in need. But number two, be able to develop healthcare infrastructures and systems to use to grow our tech. to ultimately help people. So when we partner with hospitals internationally and clinics internationally, we don't look at them as an isolated unit where we must sell a device. No, we wanna understand your problems. We understand what resources are limited in your clinic, in your community. We wanna understand what you want your clinic to be in the next five to 10 years. If we wanna implement new EHR systems, if we wanna bring in certain types of supplement or protocols in the clinic to be able to speed up operations or provide new treatments for the patients. So we wanna see you as a holistic organization that we grow with over the next five to 10 years. So we never really see anybody we connect with as a one-off. We see them as, how do we develop this relationship further? Okay, what else can we do for you to achieve your dreams?

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: So non-invasive brain stimulation could attract a lot of nefarious characters or people could worry about that side of things. You people making claims with cheap devices. How do you approach that side of the industry or is it a thing or doesn't it matter?

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: No, it is a thing. You want to make sure that you're getting technology from a credible source. You want to be able to look at the science and understand the science. You want to be able to see backing from advisors and clinicians as well as individuals with influence who understand what they're talking about. And so that's what we are developing in our organization. We're developing out all the advisory board, all the clinicians, all the clinical trial data. actually explaining the science of different products in the market. There are products in the market that look very sexy, very sleek, but the science is like decades old. It's very interesting because a lot of people don't understand, they don't understand how they're moving their money. They look at the product, it looks great, so they think it works well as well. It's not always the case, so. ⁓ Just be careful, look into the science, and understand what it does to your brain.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: don't know if you have it on your site. haven't checked that deeply. But when I think of how software companies will have ⁓ articles showing the difference between them and another brand very specifically, it might seem to head to head, but that could be, I think, a useful thing on your site. For anyone searching brand names that might be shonky, that way the keyword might come up and they might find a better option.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Brain stimulation. you also, so that's why we made our entry fee actually lower than our competitors. Our main competitor. I don't know if I can say their name. Can I say their name?

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: I don't mind, I'm all up for being specific.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Yeah, so it's called Maeve TDCS, Maeve TDCS. It's a new company that just raised two million from San Fran. Their science, their direct current simulation science is very outdated. It's like decades old. It's coming from prominent researchers. However, they didn't push on the science for the public. And so it's not going to actually change the brain as much as people think. And they're pricing their product at $500. So not only are science superior, but also we are charging it at around 70%, 350 USD.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: It's good to know. I think it's important. I mean, you don't want to mess with your brain and pick up the wrong thing. It's kind of a big decision.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: If you're going to spend money, spend it on something productive.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: Yes, I've got a few just rapid fire questions just to wrap up. So just straight off the top of your head. Best piece of business advice that you've ever ignored.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: It'll be harder than you think. It'll take longer than you think too. I ignored it because I thought to myself, nah, it'll be quick and easy. But I'm glad I ignored it because if I did, then I would have quit years ago. ⁓

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: Yeah It's actually true, isn't it? Sometimes it's best if you don't know what you're getting into. I've had a few businesses that have done well and I'm glad I didn't know at the start. Yeah. So ⁓ your Chipotle order has changed since the burrito that started at all.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: ⁓ man, no, I get the same. I get less rice now. Sometimes I get lettuce, but you know, I've been calibrating up because I've been jogging more section. I do a burrito bowl. Yeah. And not a burrito so I can get more food because I eat a lot of food. So if they have the food in the bowl is like 25 % more. And so you make your own burritos with that.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: I I need a reconnaissance trip to the States so can go and try it.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: I have optimized the Chipotle routine.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: I'm sure you have, optimizing is in your DNA. ⁓ One book every founder should read that you don't see people recommending.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: I just read this book called Skype. It's a fiction book. Yeah. And it talks about how, what happens when AI takes over the world and makes a utopia. now everybody's problems are solved. ⁓ So now we have a new problem is that nobody has purpose anymore.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: Might might be timely If U The Mind company didn't exist, what would you be building instead?

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: The problem is my specialization in knowledge is in electric field physics for the brain. And it's so specific. really don't really, I don't have any other job. I guess I would be getting a PhD. Like I don't have any other job options. Like I have a very specialized set of knowledge in this field. I would probably have to build this company. It's the only thing I know how to do. Well.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: You've been purpose-built to build you the mind company.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: only set of like knowledge my knowledge base is based on all of this

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: Yeah, all right. We'll finish this sentence in five years. Brain stimulation will be as normal as...

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: Neutropics, Neutropics supplement. It'll be normal as your vitamins, as your daily vitamin.

Jo McKee  I  McKee Creative: Yeah, yeah, that's very cool. I'm so interested. I'm definitely going to be following your work and maybe asking for a device for Christmas.

Mo Abouelsoud  I  U The Mind: We'll talk about it.