Zac: Yep. So Mike, this is Built by Liquidation, our podcast for resellers that were trying to teach a little bit about liquidation too. And then my kind of my kind of niche or my kind of like thought with liquidation, I like I view liquidation especially lately as more of a tool than a long term business. So my goal with people is let's make money with liquidation because we can, but let's pull that money out, we put it in something else and for us that thing is real estate. but it's super helpful to get people like you on that have been around a long time and you do a lot of the traditional liquidation stuff. You deal with a lot of the traditional liquidation retailers, you're live on whatnot. and so I mean you're also a trusted source in the industry, which is hard is hard to come by. I mean, I've I've sent people to you dozens of times when they're up like that way, if they're looking for pallets. Mike Lavigne: Mm-hmm. Zac: You know, at the very least I know Mike will tell you the truth about what you're buying. and you don't get a ton of people like that in our space. Mike Lavigne: Yeah, that's that's definitely true. Zac: You know, so you asked a very valid question, before we before we started, and that was, are you struggling like everybody else or most people right now in this industry? And I talk I mean, that is my conversation the last two probably two months is, you know, people call me and the conversation ends up being, Man, it sucks. It's slow, you know, what's going on? And thankfully our business, you know, we've we've pivoted a couple of times since we've been in the industry and What we do now is more is more close out. We work more directly with like one-off brands going out of business. So thankfully, sales, money, like financially, n I I could complain, right? We can always make more money. I'm not hurting, which is a which is you know a blessing. But our struggles come from like from staffing, right? From staffing issues. You know, our clients are selling a direct like they're direct to consumer, so we're struggling. it's slow, right? Like we're feeling it. It's it's definitely been one of the slowest summers, you know, post COVID. It could be better, it could also be way worse. So I c I will not complain about that on camera. I'll complain later. So but give me a little bit about you guys. I mean, I know we've talked, you know, we've over the years we've had conversations, but I don't think I've ever seen I don't think I've ever seen you on camera but like besides, you know, dressed up like an Easter bunny on whatnot. Mike Lavigne: I actually years ago when you first started, I actually flew down and met you. when you were Zac: wow. Mike Lavigne: in your first warehouse Zac: Okay. Mike Lavigne: a long, long time ago. And Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: that was like right when you first opened up. I'm like, my wife was traveling down to Atlanta and I'm like, I'm Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: gonna go meet Zach. I'm like, he's a newer guy in this. I'm like, he's not gonna know who I am, so I don't really Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: care. I just wanna go talk to him and tour his warehouse and so Zac: For sure. Mike Lavigne: Yeah, so I actually have met you years and years ago though. So but yeah, Zac: That's funny. Mike Lavigne: we've we've been in business about twenty years. just like you, it's definitely been a business that if you're not gonna pivot, you're gonna fail. And you know, I remember early on when I was just selling say Target pallets and Target truckloads, I remember telling all these people that had built their business around Target that You guys need to make sure you have a backup plan. I'm like, you can't put all your eggs in that target basket. I'm like, cause it's gonna change. I'm like, liquidation's gonna change. You're gonna have new management that's gonna come in. The new manager's job is gonna be to basically minim or maximize their recovery, minimize their losses. And we've seen that, you know, especially I'll say with Target, substantially in the last three years. You know, they went from pillaging out all their good stuff. to essentially now they're going to the manifested stuff. But I would say our big struggle right now is, you know, s I think it's more with my personality. I'm running into an issue where I almost feel guilty because I cannot supply palette sellers and we'll say palette people with merchandise just because of the way the economy is. People have gotten fussy, more fussy. So what happens is, and you can attest to this as somebody, I don't know if you still sell palettes, but you know, people come in to buy a palette and they only want the primo shit and they want the best price possible. So what happens is in any type of load, you know, you're gonna get five or six primo palettes and, you know, maybe ten mid-grade pallets and maybe 10 or 11 just trash pallets. And obviously you get stuck with those. So we've had to really pull back the reins a little bit on what we sell to the general public and go more end to user. So we are selling a bunch on whatnot. We're actually one of the few people that still sell pallets on whatnot, and we're the crazy ones that do free shipping and dollar starts. and it works for us, but I d I don't think there's many people that it would work for. Just the way, you know, how we do business. But you know, we also sell a bunch of stuff locally, which is insane. We are in a town of maybe six hundred people. The closest city is about fifteen minutes away, with any sort of population. And Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: you know, we do really well just selling locally and doing that stuff, which is kind of where we've transferred a lot of our energy to more of the live selling and just selling individual items versus the pallets. We still sell truckloads, but Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: definitely on the pallet side it's slowed down. Zac: Yeah, we we saw it w you know, I'm I'm very you you hit the nail on the head, you know, in liquidation in general, you have to be prepared to pivot because w you know, any time there's a program that works today, too I mean you can just you might as well plan for it to go away because it'll go away, the pricing will change, the processing will change, 'cause that's the retailer's job. They're here to maximize their profit just like we are for ours. And so I always get irritated with people that go on, they're like, the loads are getting, you know Dude, that's the point. Like, we are here to get what they don't want and so we have to adjust as they adjust. But to your question, so we go ahead. Mike Lavigne: You know, you look at when we started too. you know, we'll say I'll say you and I. When we started, you know, years ago, I would say an unmanifested load was gold. That's what you and I wanted. Any liquidator with experience, that's what we wanted is unmanifested loads because we knew there was gonna be loads of value in Now that has completely switched. Now you actually don't really want an unmanifested one. Because you know it's probably not gonna have the value in it. But on the flip side, the manifested one, the prices and the schemes behind it have changed so much that, you know, and I I love to compare Target and Sam's Club because I'm very well versed in both of their contracts. A Target contract at nine percent a lot of times is actually more expensive than a Sams Club contract at twenty-five percent. Just because of how they do things, but there's so much inexperience out there that they don't quite understand that one uses MSRP, one uses, you know, what they actually sell it for. There's a huge difference in that. But I could ramble on on that stuff forever. Zac: Sure. We just did a video on it, you know. No, you listen, we just touched on that because I had people comment about asking about MSRP and like how that affects things, and we see it more today because I I work a lot more with with brands who are going out of business, and so they popped up a brand and you know, say it was you know, whatever a tumblr, right? The MSRP on their private label tumbler is forty nine ninety nine. Well, I don't care because Just because you s you said it's worth fifty dollars doesn't mean you sold it and clearly you didn't because you're out of business. versus like a Yeti sells Mike Lavigne: Right. Zac: for $4999. I will sell that Yeti for half price. The brand matters. MSRP, you just have to be careful. You have to be careful with it. Like Target's private label clothing does not does not command the same resale value as Sam's who sells Levi's or Carter's or well known brands. Those brands you probably can get fifty percent of retail of. So you can pay that premium. But Target's I forget what Target's brand is offhand, Goodfellows is Yeah. I don't care if those jeans are thirty bucks. Mike Lavigne: Like Good Fellows is one. Yeah. Cat and Jack. Zac: Yeah, you're gonna sell those jeans for five. Like that's just it's just known jeans are five bucks that are off brand. I mean, at least down here. Mike Lavigne: And right, and that's a huge hot topic right now. the target manifesting. And you know, I've I've talked to a lot of people about it, and sadly the only people that really defend it are the contract holders. And I do not defend like I don't blame them at all. Like you you're tied into something, you have to sell it, you have to try to put a good spin on it, but there's no good way to put it. Like the target clothing, I mean I have Zac: That's a big topic. Mike Lavigne: Numbers, numbers right in front of me of a manifest. So like the the contract holders are paying anywhere from three to seven percent. They're gonna try to s you know, and that's the price delivered to them with the target contract. I don't know if a lot of people know, but when you bid on the target contract, that's your delivered cost. So and they have essentially the the two things in their liquidation and their store salvage. That are the highest volume are clothing and what's called it's basically a like fun 101, which is like phone cases and dumb shit like that. Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: But keep in mind, like I said earlier, they already pillaged all their good stuff out. Yes, you might get some Legos in there, some toys, but like all the appliances that are new in the box, that is all gone now. That's getting sold differently through B stock. So That's a huge difference in the manifested load where you take Amazon, who sells theirs at seven percent, say Target's at seven, but people are gonna try to get nine to fifteen for it. All the high dollar items are gone that you can make up a lot of your retail value, you know, a lot of your price on. And Zac: Got it. Mike Lavigne: then what they do is they're using MSRP. And the problem is majority of what Target close out, like closes out. Is all on clearance already. So it's 10, 10 bucks. They already got clearance stickers on it for $1.99, but they're charging you, you know, a dollar for it. You know, how do Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: you make any money at that? And you know, the clothing, when you bought, I'm sure you know, you've bought your share of, you know, Target Unmanifested store salvage. You get that stuff and you can be at sub 50 cents, sometimes sub 25 cents a unit for clothing. That is an absolute gold mine for live selling. I on all I've said, I've commented on some groups and you know I get torn apart a little bit about this, but you know, all I'm saying is the this is gonna change the dynamic of live selling, the people who are relying on that. I still think there's a place for Target, but as someone who sells Target and Sam's Club, when you start looking at the manifested numbers of Target clothing. The cheapest I've legitimately seen a contract holder pay for it is about a buck forty-six a unit. I have contract holders that are claiming they're paying less, but I don't Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: see that. That is their direct cost. So what's happening is they're taking some of the, I believe, they're taking the whole load, averaging it out per piece, making the price look lower. But if you actually take, like here's some information that I wrote off one manifest I had. It was twenty six hundred and fifty nine units. That's fifty-nine thousand in retail. They were billed out thirty-six eighty-six for the for all the clothing, which comes to a dollar forty-six delivered to the contract holder. So now and keep in mind that's at six and a half percent. People are trying to sell it from nine to twelve. So you look at Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: at 9%, you're already over $2 a unit to the contract holder, not To whoever's buying it. Sam's Club, you're looking at $3. I mean, I tell people on my Whatnot show, I will sell you Sam's clothing at $3 a unit delivered. And that's for your name brand. So I look at the the live selling and the people that have relied on the target at that $1 or less. That is definitely going to change the dynamics. Like I said, and you'll agree, like there's still a place for that somewhere, but Zac: Sure. Mike Lavigne: you you really All I'm saying is that's just going to be killed for that stream. And sadly, that is a good share of people that are eating up the current target. Zac: Yeah, I mean, we've been we've been I've been hearing about the Target for the last month or so. Like we've stepped away from the tr like for the most part, the traditional what I call the traditional liquidation area, which is like your Target Walmart Sam's Club. Obviously we've done this for so long. I talk to all these people, I sell these people stuff. but since I've been in doing this, Target clothing has typically sold for eighty five cents upwards to a dollar twenty five. So Like that's what we could always buy and sell target clothing for. So we're going from that number to almost double to two dollars plus. I don't you know, w everybody asks, Well, how is that sustainable or how is, you know, that it can't last forever, it's gonna come back down. And I don't think it does. I mean, that's my opinion. I think everybody adjusts and they f either the people that can't make money will go out of business or they'll find something new. People that really want it will make it work for their business and the pricing will stay the same. Once pricing goes up, it it it's rare to see it come back down. I mean, when COVID hit, we're all like, the pricing will come back down. Well we're what? We're four years outside of COVID and I haven't seen Mike Lavigne: Yeah. Zac: anything come back. I haven't seen anything come back down. We've we've you know, we've had a up and maybe it it it plateaued a little bit, but it's not going to change. So you've been warned by people like the pricing's going up, it's here, now it's up. It your time to adjust your business was two or three months ago. If you waited till the pricing went up to adjust, you know, I'm afraid you might be d screwed. and you need to adjust quicker. Mike Lavigne: Right. And there's so many people that are looking for stuff now, but they're just they're they're sticker shocked when they see the price of it now. Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: And you know, it's just you know, I legitimately feel bad for a lot of people from top to bottom. The contract holders of Target. I really think, you know, like some people with the Target contract that just happened, like you we they actually bid on a per pallet price. Saying, hey, it may go to manifested. And then, you know, two month or two months into the contract, they switch it already to the manifesting. Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: some people actually bid on the manifesting, the manifesto pricing. But, you know, I feel bad for a lot of those people because those those guys secured warehouses and they gotta sell the stuff. And the the value the price of the load essentially doubled. And the value of the load essentially is gonna be similar for most of the people because A taw, a raw target load is going to come in, you know, maybe 26 pallets, but there might be a box on one pallet, two boxes on another. Most contract holders build that up to 26 pallets, send it out. You know, that's the common theme. So what's gonna happen now? Like I talked to one particular guy who said, I got that same truckload manifested. I built up my pallets like I normally would. I got 11 pallets. My cost on it was $11,000. So he's like. Zac: Damn, yeah. Mike Lavigne: How does the old model work when I built up 26 pallets and I sold them for 13,000? He said I my cost without labor into building the truckload came to 11 pallets. Granted, the numbers are gonna change, you know, a little Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: bit, but you know, just rough numbers. I mean, that's twice the cost. And it's the same merchandise. Like Target's not sending anything different now because they're manifesting it. So Zac: Yeah. So you're saying, just to clarify, and what it sounds like they're selling is like a process load. Like people process Amazon and they pull everything eighty dollars and up out and they sell the rest to the bin stores. What it sounds like to me the target loads are now is if I were to process an Amazon truck, pull my eighty and up, and then manifest everything else and then charge nine percent. Mike Lavigne: So basically what's happening is Target and many other retailers are doing this too. They're essentially, like I said, they're maximizing, we'll say minimizing their loss. So what they're doing is they're teaming up with B stock or whoever else it may be. And they're like, okay, B stock, will you take all my electronics? Sell that. Will you take our open or we'll leave our open box appliances in there? But the newest box ones, we're going to put in this load. So there's IRC, there's all kinds of different, we'll say, facets of the Target contract. The store salvage is the one I'm talking about. Store salvage is probably the most common one you see out there, along with the MOS, which is the case pack. So Target came out to contract holders and basically had told all of us that we, this was a few years ago, that we're going to start taking out the good stuff, basically. So what they did is they took out. My argument with them, this was when I had a contract with them, was they would take out a KitchenAid mixer. We used to get pallets of KitchenAid mixers on a Target contract, dice and vacuums, like great stuff. So Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: they took out the KitchenAid mixer that was worth $350. And in that space, they essentially refilled it with $350 $1 Bullseye playground items. So their their description is Still the value is there. And my argument is no, the value is not there. The retail value is the same, but you've Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: taken the true value out of that palette. So, and that's what they've done. So now a lot of that higher end stuff goes to another market, another contract, we'll say that they sell. So you're not gonna see large volumes of that. Anyone who's gotten the target store salvage stuff in the last few years, Have definitely seen a decrease in stuff. The problem is a lot of contract holders haven't physically told their customers what's going on. Because one of my pet peeves is after COVID, what Target did when they first took the stuff out of the pallets is they offered essentially people who had a contract, they sold it for $100 less. But do you think contract holders told their customers that? You know the answer. So Zac: No. No. Mike Lavigne: What happened was they took the crap out, the good stuff, replaced it with crap. They got a hundred dollars credit as a contract holder, and people were selling. I don't know if every contract holder got it, but Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: I believe everyone did who had a contract during that time. So what happened is, you know, they would so you buy a truckload, you're like, dude, where's all the good stuff? It's a lot of bullseye playground, it's just low-value stuff and massive Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: amounts of clothing. So me as a contract holder, I'd be like, Well, I don't know, Tar it's just what's coming through right Zac: It's sh Mike Lavigne: now. So and you would be making an extra twenty six hundred dollars a pallet, I would on the Zac: Yeah. Yeah. Mike Lavigne: credit, and then just push it off as its target's fault. And then eventually what happened is the new contracts came out and the target contracts, so that was kind of when there was a massive influx of people trying to get target contracts. So the newbies would come in not knowing that the bad stuff is not necessarily all what you're getting, not bad, but you know the lesser appealing stuff. They're Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: not going to read the fine print on targets terms and everything. So they're bidding and they were bidding the same price as what the old contract was. Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: So that's where you've seen the target contract go up quite a bit. And then Zac: Josh. Mike Lavigne: as far as other pricing, you were saying like you haven't seen much go up or down. I can honestly say, as one of Sam's Club's largest contract holders, Sam's Club contract has actually gone down. Zac: wow. Mike Lavigne: it's one of the only ones. Originally, when we started, I believe our contracted price during COVID was, Zac: Mm-hmm. Mike Lavigne: I'll just take electronics for example. I believe our contracted price was 35%. After COVID, it got down as low as like maybe 28%. Zac: Okay. Mike Lavigne: And it's still not back up to. 35 yet, which is very nice. I mean, it's it's Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: a perk, but you know, Sams Club liquidation is like none other. I mean, like you get TVs and the TVs aren't broken. I mean, well, Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: they shouldn't be. So that's where that's just a whole different liquidation program. But you know, Amazon, everything else that's changed so much. Obviously, with Amazon, they made a push towards getting everything to the end users. That's why there's there's just not a lot of Amazon out there. And if there is, the price is so high you almost have to buy it processed. Otherwise it's really hard to make it work for your bin store or however else. And that's why the donation Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: and the the other stuff is such a big perk and a big item out there. Zac: Well, it's a big perk but so I get 'cause you know, it's funny, 'cause I get every week I got a donation load. Awesome. 'Cause when I hear donation load, for those peop people watching, like, I'm not getting it for free. Mike's not getting it for free. Like, someone are they supposed to be selling it? It it's it's Mike Lavigne: Someone's getting it for free. Zac: it's a great area, but listen, I'm always gonna take a good deal. but when I hear donation, that means someone got it for free. Or very ch they paid an admin fee and then I should be if you're gonna sell it to me, I should be benefiting, I think, a little bit. But no, the donation pricing is the same as as liquidation pricing at this point, which I mean good for somebody. You know, I years back I I I was dealing with someone who was who was direct on they were the guy with the donation, right? And I know they were ripping eight grand a load and they were selling me ten loads a week and I'm sitting there going, man Like you start debating how do I do that? I'm like, that's sh it's it's that gray area of like I don't really want to be the guy that gets busted for selling the donation stuff. It's just there's a lot of ways to make money. I don't know if I want to be that guy. but now I mean I don't care if it's donat you call I think a lot of stuff gets called donation now because like, if I call it donation, which is this whole industry, right? I don't remember years and years ago, black rap Walmart. Mike Lavigne: Yes. Zac: And all it is is a guy with a roll of black wrap, shrink wrapping in black and every once in a while stuffing an iPhone in there and pulling out. I mean, good on him. I know like Mike Lavigne: Or it was the 100, was it like the 100 loads out of TRG that was the Walmarts that people called the Black Rap? Because they had two different numbers on their BOLs back in the day. Like one Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: was a ninety-two and one was a hundred, I think it was. It was something like that. Where the ninety-two's Zac: A ninety s yeah. I remember like Mike Lavigne: were not as good and the one hundreds were the black raps. Zac: Yeah. Yep, and you'd like I would ask my rep, I'm like, Can you you know and there's nothing different. The rap was that was that shift or whatever. And then every once in a while Amazon has a program and man, a lot of times it's it's somebody with a roll of rap and it's like this is a good idea. That's what this industry like is to me. I was just to talk to someone about this, is a lot of this once outside of the contract holders, it's a bunch of us repackaging it to make it a different like Mike Lavigne: Mm-hmm. Zac: mystery boxes were all the rage earlier this year. It's the same crap in a smaller box. You know, the watermelon and Mike Lavigne: Right. Zac: I always I bring this up 'cause like I never get the credit for it. but when when COVID hit and the target case packs were the target case packs that like were good. Like Mike Lavigne: You'd get good stuff. Zac: my we took a we took a subcontract over from Bobby Mick down in Florida. And best decision I made in probably our liquidation history. We're forty loads a week at one point and we were we I maintained that we built the original watermelon box. Like we had the idea to put it in the watermelon box and we blended it and we made really good good loads and we got a three and a half to one, meaning the pallet came in, it built three and a half watermelon Gaylords. The amount of money we were made was it was absolutely insane. We provided a service like to people that couldn't afford the full load or our service was what it really was When you bought a load from us, we gave you essentially it was twenty-four pallets on a truck. Every four pallets were very similar. They came off the same case pack truck. But because I had so many trucks coming in, I was in your little five thousand dollar watermelon truck, you got the equivalent of four to six loads blended together. So that was the the big value. But all we did was repackage it. You know, it was the same third case pack in a different box, you know, and that's Mike Lavigne: Right. Mm-hmm. Zac: what a lot of this stuff is is It's all of us trying to figure out how do we repackage this to make it different, to make it more exciting for people. Mike Lavigne: And what a lot of people don't understand is really the liquidation space for contract holders is very small. Like, you know, even the recyclers, the people that are doing the, you know, the donation stuff's different because You know, they obviously are not really liquidators, but they're having liquidation people sell their stuff a lot of times. But, you know, the the main space of the big contract holders is really the same people it's always been. Maybe the business has been bought out and changed, but for the most part, I mean, it's kind of the same people that have been doing it for forever. I mean, don't you think? Zac: I feel like it because I feel like well, 'cause they can, right? 'Cause in the beginning, and this I feel like I got in too like ten years too late, right? Like, back when there was real we got back we got started when Kmart was a thing. So we were paying fifty dollars for a Kmart pal, we were selling it for three fifty. Like the margins were so like they were there. And so like all these guys that have the contracts, if they were smart, they I mean they stacked up a shitload of cash. They can still afford They c they they can afford to hold the note on all this product 'cause people don't understand, you know, everybody wants to be a contract holder until you are one. And I think a lot of people like Mike Lavigne: Right. Zac: they take the plunge and they try to do it. And we see a lot of people, that's when they fail is they get so they try to get they gotta be the best, they gotta be the biggest, they gotta be number one. And you start you start shelling out that money. I mean, when we when we took our closest, right, was when we took over for Bobby and we took over forty load to target a week. And It was all I could do every week to sell enough to pay for the product, to pay for the staff, to pay for the overhead. I was not I did not feel that money until we it ran out. And it was it it worked out so beautifully for us, but like it was over. And then I had when it was over, I had two hundred trucks on the floor. I was so close to calling Mike Lavigne: And they were all paid for. Zac: it all paid for. I was so close to c crying mercy. I had a hundred fifty thousand square feet. And when the last truck came in We were having conversations on do we put it outside? Like, because we couldn't there was no space. So I at the end of those two like at the end I felt it. Like we got two months where we just we stacked up a shitload of cash, for lack of a better word. So like I imagine that's what these guys have gotten to do over the like the first ten, twenty years and then now they have the cash to do it because the new guy coming in, I mean, these Amazon contracts are massive. you know, the deposits are massive Mike Lavigne: Yeah. Zac: to get started. And then the the manifest people don't realize 'cause we took over a couple, you know, facilities for liquidity last year, I think, trying to process and we trying to do something right that was like consistent because there's no consistency in this industry. man, you ship me the load, I don't get the manifest for a week. I can't process Mike Lavigne: Right. Zac: without the manifest 'cause we'd have loads that cost us eighteen grand. To 50 grand from the same facility. So you can't even just dump it. You can't hand sort. Because I I've been doing this for a long time, and I know you have too. And I know we're I it's so it's a lot of fun when like you you pull something out of a pallet. How much do you think this is worth? And I I could be on the prices right. Like I would be banger. But even I, when I process a load by by sight and not by scan, I miss 60% of the pulls. Right? So you have to have that manifest. build a process when it comes in a week after you get it and I got ten loads a week coming, I mean it's a quarter million dollars sitting on the floor before you know it. So, Mike Lavigne: Uh-huh. Zac: you know, we watched guys, you know, we watched a couple c big companies go down recently that I think just got over leveraged. They couldn't they couldn't you're taking losses, you're extending credit, you're extending terms 'cause you need to just get you need your space, you need the capital. I mean, it's a it's a very difficult thing to manage. these contract holders. So the guys that do it, I mean, good on them because it's not easy. Mike Lavigne: I was I was thinking the other day, I saw something about Paul Pierce, the big basketball player, and how he made millions and then he was broke. you know, and I think kind of like I wonder how many people in liquidation had come into this industry when it was hot and heavy. There's so many people that got into it during COVID. They came in, no education, no anything, maybe and no offense to anyone who did this either, but. How many Zac: I know. Mike Lavigne: came in with no education and just got lucky and struck struck it good, made tons of money, kept going, but because maybe they're a little bit ignorant, they they're gonna lose everything just because they're not smart enough to pivot and change, and they're gonna lose it all, like kind of like Paul Pierce. I just think because when we made money. Good money, it was like printing money. Like in anybody who was in this business, you know, we made a lot of money at certain times. We also can lose a lot of money really quickly. And I wonder how many people that aren't smart enough along the way or didn't plan for this business to be around forever. I wonder how many of those people are the ones we've seen fold and the ones that we've seen. That are gonna fail in the future. Because, like, we're seeing record numbers of record numbers of people go out of business. I mean, I know personally a few people that were just like I explained, that they made tons of money, they refused to adapt, change, or they just were ignorant because they just got lucky and they were, you know, just some hood rats or whatever Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: that just they ended up making shit tons of money and then they got nothing now, or they're on the path of making nothing. Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: You know, I like you invested in real estate and did a bunch of other stuff. You know, that's smart money, I think. Zac: No, when you said that it's so funny 'cause I mean and I won't mention names I just I there's someone that comes to mind that they hit it, you know, we were we were around before COVID, we knew the struggles, and then COVID hit, and I say this in almost every interview that brings up COVID is the best thing that happened to my business. And I it sucked for a lot of people, didn't suck for me. but you're right, a lot Mike Lavigne: Yeah, same button. Zac: of people got in at COVID and then they they I guess they must have thought this is liquidation, this is the best thing ever. And they over leveraged, they got spaces that they can't afford. They signed leases that are five, ten years, whatever, thinking this'll never change. They invested in staff, they invested in processing, and then stuff obviously fell apart. And that's I mean, it flows right into my point that I try to make and I try to tell everybody, you know, this industry has the biggest ups. I mean, like you said, there's we all know it, right? We can all think back to the the the the most recent deal where we printed money. I mean several come to mind where I mean literally I thought I had a printing press cause it was throwing off that much cash. Every dollar for the first we've been doing this for thirteen years. Every dollar for the first ten we bought real estate with and I still buy, you know, I try to buy four to five buildings a year. We're our goal next year is to to double. We're a big push next year to get out of this industry a little bit more. because it you If you don't, if you only reinvest in this industry, you will lose it. Like I'm sorry. The guys that are big, like liquidity, there's only so many. And there's more of us that are have great businesses. Like we have a we have a small business. We make a lot of money. but I don't I I do my best not to reinvest it into processes. Because every pr every program I've ever had that was mine, and the Target Case Pack is prime example, that ended. The next one will end. You know, so do yourself a favor, anybody watching, and just take it from two people that have done it and are still around. And if my liquidation bid if I folded today and closed up, I would be a very comfortable person off of my investments from liquidation. I couldn't have done it without liquidation. I mean, liquidation Mike Lavigne: Right. Zac: has funded every good part of my life and I'll always be grateful for it. It sucks today, like I hate I I I hate it right this second. Like it's its struggle. But it has funded everything and I've I'm just grateful that I've pulled everything out that I could and put it somewhere else. 'Cause I've I have I've seen I'm watching one happen now that I mean, I saw it coming, it was a train wreck. It you could see it from a mile away. And it's still sad to see. Like, do I like the people? I don't. Mike Lavigne: it's your friends. You like you a lot of these people you've gotten to know and you're like, Zac: Not like. Mike Lavigne: you know, you I just I legitimately feel bad for them. You know, there's a lot of people out there that, you know, have these contracts. And I just know it's not going well. And, you know, you see them driving around with their Maseratis or whatever. And I'm like, I hope to God you plan for what's coming next. Zac: Yeah. It's not I don't see it getting better. Someone asked me, do you think it's getting better? I said, I don't think pricing gets better. I don't think freight gets better for a while. We're coming up in fourth quarter. You got a chance to like sales will get better. Like people will start spending money in fourth quarter again. But, you know, if you you can do one of two things to make more money right this second, you can either sell more, which is a little bit difficult, or you can start looking at your expenses and start trimming the fat. Is that every one of us has fat in our business that we're we don't want to cut. Whether it's a person that you know, or it's it's some kinda it's I have three four clips, I only need two find there's ways to trim the fat. Do you need a bigger building? You don't need here's the thing about a building, and it's so funny because my dad told me this about one of his cl his customers years and when I was just starting. He said, Whatever building I've been in, I've always filled it up. And that's the truth. Like I've been in two thousand square feet, I've been in two hundred thousand square feet and Within two months, every one of those buildings has always been full, right? Your overhead just it gets out of control so quickly. Mike Lavigne: When I remember my first 17 years in this business, I operated out of a 40 by 80 pole shed out in the middle of the country and 3,200 square feet. And I had a target contract during that time. I remember out on my gravel road having 11 summons lined up. And I'm like, I don't Zac: Jesus. Mike Lavigne: know how you fit 11 Sum-Is in a pole shed that like, Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: but you know, I made it work and I was, I, you know, I got to know a lot of people that way because I'm like, hey, I need I need help here. Will you buy one at a cheap price? And you know, and then we moved into our new place, but it's only 12,000 square feet. But it took me 17 years to get to this point because I wanted to buy it. I didn't want a lease. and then once we're here, you know, my my payments 2600 bucks a month. I mean, and and it's basically paid for. I got four loading docks, like it's it's perfect. Like for us, I feel like even if we didn't. We're definitely scaling back. I've I've given up some Sam's Club contracts. I gave up my target deals. Like I'm content with, you know, it's like I've made enough money. I I do well with debt. I manage money well. Like I'm trimming the fat, as you, you know, you're talking about. And I'm basically just trying to, you know, pick and choose and really diversify. Like we are constantly changing what we do. And A lot of people are just really set on not changing or they limit their changes. But you really have to be diversified. I mean, we I remember when we first started, we were selling pallets in this area. We'd sell 200 pallets a week. Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: last week we probably sold four. I mean, if that's not how you diversify, I don't I mean Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: and I actually get more merchandise now, but we're consuming a lot ourselves and just selling more online and You know, I really think the live selling in our lazy society, that's definitely a way that things are going. You know, Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: I seen that you can buy stuff on what is it like the Uber Eats, the Uber stuff or I don't know, I forgot what it's called, but basically you can sell diapers and then somebody shows up at your house and buys, you know, picks it up and delivers it to you. Like Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: that's the society we live in. So, you know, that's a good pivot right now is get into the live selling, whether it's whatnot, TikTok, Poshmark, you know, whatever it is, vintage, you know, there's so many of them that are hot right now. But the biggest thing is people are overpaying to sell on those platforms. And that's where it's a big issue. Like just because those platforms are, you know, really hot and a great place to sell, you still have to buy the merchandise right. And sadly, there's a lot of people that are trying to sell. sell and they have a great sales pitch to tell you to buy it at that price, but that's just not accurate. I mean, we I talk about it all the time on our palette shows. I'm like, here's the deal. I'm selling a Target clothing palette. Do not pay over a dollar twenty five a unit delivered for it. And I get people on there all the time. And I even got messages from a liquidator. He's like, dude, you're fucking me over here. He's like, I sell it for three. And I'm like, you shouldn't be. I'm like The liquidation mark, like your market for that stuff on those live selling platforms, if I were to sell it, I'm gonna get between three and four, four bucks, maybe four fifty Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: on average. So, you know, I have to be into it for a dollar or less. Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: You know, so it it's really in the buy when you're diversifying to change, you know, still know what you're buying and you know, go to trusted sources. You know, so many people. just they see anything online, they're like, here, I'll send money. I mean, I'm sure you've been a victim of scams, just like us. I mean, every day I get calls. Can I get that palette of Stanley? No. Zac: Yeah. No, it's not it's not gonna happen. And you know, going staying with the live selling for a second, 'cause we ran it for we ran it for about four months. And we I don't like to do anything small. I think that's part of my problem is if I'm doing Mike Lavigne: Yeah, I watched you when you were doing it. Zac: it needs to be big, right? And we went from zero to a hundred real quick. We I think we ran three hundred and fifty K in three three, four months and it looked like a good thing. And it was to to To be fair, it was a good thing if I was anybody else, right? If I was sourcing the product and that was my business, it's it was not a bad business. My problem was, you know, when I buy something, I buy twenty thousand. And that's my business today is I buy twenty thousand of these mugs and I sell this for three dollars. And I usually sell them ten thousand at a time. On whatnot, I might get six dollars, but I sell them one at a time. And then I gotta Mike Lavigne: Yeah. Zac: pay somebody to package it, they gotta pay somebody to sell it, I gotta pay for the material. So after fees, shipping, everything I get, I probably got five bucks for this. Well, it's more than three, but I only sold ten per show. So Mike Lavigne: Yeah. Zac: for me, it just didn't make sense. It was more of a headache than it was worth. Because again, when I sell twenty thousand of these and I make a dollar, Zach's really happy. And to make the extra dollar on a hundred doesn't really move the needle at all. So for us, it was just it was more of like. my god, I it was six employees working forty hours a week. Like it was a production and the guys that do it well, and you guys I've watched your shows, like you've made it you're a personality, right? And it's a lot of fun to watch. You know, I looked at it as how many of these freaking things can I run through a show? I want to be at, you know, ten per sec or ten per minute. Like it's not fun. It's hard to do it and have a personality and like 'cause Mike Lavigne: Yeah, and that's where it's really hard to do that on whatnot. But right. Zac: the guys you were buying were resellers. Right. And the point of whatnot for me was I want enough extra margin to get to the consumer where okay, instead of getting six dollars, I got twelve. That's okay, now we're talking a way bigger number for this. That was the point. But all of our all of our customers on there because of who we were or who we are, we we attracted resellers. So now I was I ended up just selling, you know I ended up selling the resale, which is great. I don't I love resellers, like that's that's who we want to sell to, but I don't want to sell you ten thousand at a time. I don't wanna sell you one at a time for the same price. So we just never made it past Mike Lavigne: Mm-hmm. Zac: the resellers and into the consumers. And that's, you know, ultimately why we just, you know, we do something different. Or our we had you gotta factor in your time and I don't think a lot of people do that, where yes, we were profitable, we were making money, but w what if we turned on the faucet a little bit more on our wholesale side, we make more money there. And you gotta weigh it. You know, you wanna diversify, but you don't wanna like you don't I I don't know how to explain to people, you don't wanna waste your time on something making five dollars an hour where you can get a job making thirty dollars an hour. I mean if you wanna look at it by the hour, you gotta value your time and your your mental state also, 'cause that whatnot is something. Like when you're shipping a thousand items a week, it's something. Mike Lavigne: It's yeah. And we probably ship a I bet you we ship three to eight hundred a day. I mean we Zac: Yes, the Mike Lavigne: we do really well with it though. but I feel Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: like we've kind of mastered how we do it. Like we we sell mainly Sam's Club on there, but you know, I get a lot of the case packs of Walgreens, which is like you're talking where, but I don't get thirty thousand. I'm very particular about how I buy because of how I sell. So it's no different. Like you take the cups, for example. You know, I could have bought a truckload of the like Zulu cups is what I just bought. Zac: Mm-hmm. Mike Lavigne: But I didn't want a truckload because I knew how I sell wouldn't quite work. But I took, you know, six palettes of different colors and I'm like, I'll sit on those and I'll make, you know, good money. I think I got a dollar delivered into them or a dollar thirty. Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: And like we're selling on our whatnot show for nine to thirteen bucks apiece. And every show will sell some. Otherwise, I sell them by the case at three bucks a piece, I think. Zac: Mm-hmm. Mike Lavigne: just for some local walk-in people. It's like little stuff like that works. Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: but I can see, you know, it's like how you're set up, whatnot probably didn't work. You would have to change your model. Like what we did is we kind of, it's one of the evolutions that you know, we decided to make is you know, whatnot's working well for us. Let's kind of Turn a little more energy towards it. We're gonna open up our faucet because our business is kind of already tailored towards that. And then, you know, like I said, it works, but we also process and we got some software that lists stuff on our local page that, you know, we sell probably $30,000 to $40,000 locally, just like per per unit, a week or every actually it's four days we sell that every four days. When we're open. And you know, that seems to work for us. But the good thing is all that is possible. You know, those aren't great, great numbers, but it's all Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: possible because the previous 20 years I didn't make stupid financial decisions. Now Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: when I make twenty thousand profit might be five thousand just on that asset after paying bills, plus a bunch, you know, plus I sell truckloads. So it's like, and the whatnot. Like we do probably a hundred to two hundred thousand. Probably a hundred thousand a week easily on whatnot. Zac: Wow. Mike Lavigne: you know, and we do well with it, but like our whole business, I won't say our whole business, but like majority of our whatnot is tailored off our Sam's Club contract, which a Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: lot of people it doesn't work for, but for us it does. just Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: because of, you know, how we do it. And it's no different, like you're a smart guy. There's a lot of people that, you know, like you're very good at, you know, certain things in your business. I feel like between me and my wife. We we really play each play off each other very well, our strengths and weaknesses. And, you know, we've made a very powerful business based on that. But, you know, sadly there's a lot of people out there that don't have the wherewithal to do that. And Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: you know, but there's also people that are smarter than you and I out there that are kicking ass and making Zac: a hundred percent. Mike Lavigne: tons. And good for them. I'm just glad I'm able to make money and, you know, things are working out. I'm very humbled that like. You know, I came from nothing and now to be able to buy what I want or do what I want, that's a that's a great feeling. And I'm sure you're the same way. Like it's it I I don't ever want to come across as arrogant or anything like I I can honestly say everything I got, I worked my ass for. You know, people don't understand the hours it takes in liquidation. And I'm sure you can attest to it. I mean, there's we're working morning till night, especially when we were younger and we were making good money. I mean, like, I didn't Zac: No Mike Lavigne: want to stop working. Zac: No, I agree. You know, I think people see it now, you know, they see what's built and that's goes for everybody you see that you see the result and I'm not done. Right? Like it's a hard thing. I was just talking to somebody that I mean I have two people that I've talked to recently. I've got a friend of mine and he he said, screw it. He he bought some property in Alaska. He I th I forget what he says he, you know, his his income is now, but he bought enough real estate to be really comfortable and he moved to Thailand, where it's cheaper to live, but good for him. Like he's done. I I get a picture of him on the beach in the pool every day. I see him on Facebook and I'm like Are you making as much money as I want to make? No, but guess what? You you did it. Like, who wouldn't want to sit on the like do that all day? Like that is that's Mike Lavigne: Yeah. Zac: the dream if you can let yourself do it. Just I just sold somebody a bunch of towels and you know, he sold a piece of property, he's set, he doesn't have to work, he does he does it when he sees a good deal, but otherwise he he's retired, he doesn't have any overhead, you know, and I'm always a little bit jealous of people like that, that they've made it enough to where they're content and They I mean like y how much money can you spend is you know, is the question. Like I don't know when I'm that's yeah. Mike Lavigne: Yeah, like how much is enough? I mean you're Zac: And like I don't know if you're the same, but like when I started I picked a number, right? I said if I can get to this this much money a year from the real estate 'cause that was my goal from day one was I want to retire from the real estate. 'Cause I get a check every month in the mail from people and it's like the best thing ever. and I've hit that number. Like I hit that number two years ago and the number moved. Right? The number got bigger. And the number I see the number coming like the new number coming. It was very close. And I'm like, but I don't think that's enough. And it is enough, but it's like Mike Lavigne: There's there's leaders leadership classes out there, Zach, that talk about you can't move the needle. Once you get Zac: Ha. Mike Lavigne: to that point, you have to be content. Zac: You've gotta be done. You know it's Mike Lavigne: moving the damn needle. I have to tell my kid that. He always moves the needle. I'm like, be content, be happy. You know, and I'm very fortunate Zac: Yeah. It's the hardest thing. Mike Lavigne: because like I I have a police pension. So like I don't need this for retirement. Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: I have my goal was, you know, when I was ready to retire, just have shit paid for. I didn't Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: know liquidation was going to be this good. and like you, you know, I I have houses and places and we rent and do different things. And, you know, it's great. I could live off the rental stuff too with my pension and be very happy. But, you know, I'll still have to do something in liquidation. Like this has really become a passionate thing for me. You know, and I Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: even thought I'm I would be okay with just closing up and just me doing some live streaming and buying like keeping one or two Sam's clubs or just buying some liquidation palettes and Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: You know, selling, but you know, I've also been offered by a big company to buy us out, which I thought was very humbling. Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: a big liquidator's like, I love what you guys have built, your Facebook page and everything. And I was like, so that's in the back of my head too. But you know, part of me is like, you know, I built this and I just I would rather be a part of it or give it to my kids or something if you know, if it's around, but still you have to adapt. And You know, like you know, I thought if nothing else, we'll do you know, add freight brokerage, because we do freight brokering, stuff like that. Zac: Okay. Mike Lavigne: We own a trucking company. So I bought a trucking company, kind of like you buy real real estate, you know, we got into trucking Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: companies, shit like that. so you know, I just want to add all those pieces to our business. So we are very well diversified. Zac: Yeah, y and we've I think all of us, by the way, if anybody's looking to buy a re a liquidation business, feel free to reach out. I'm not Mike Mike, Mike Lavigne: Okay. Zac: I have no I don't think my kids will ever want it. we we went down that road years back and we it just it fell apart. so I'm always down. Like listen, I'll walk away tomorrow for the right check. I don't even know where I was going with that, but the freight brokerage, we've all I think everybody in liquidation is kinda like debated doing it. We've, you know, debated that as well 'cause it's like, if I could just if I could save two hundred dollars a load, you know, on my own stuff, it would be, you know, it'd be super beneficial. but no, diversification outside of this industry I think is key. And it you know, the freight is like It's right it's r it's low hanging fruit 'cause we're using freight. Like you can build that freight business from your own stuff and then build it up from there. So, you know, I think the biggest takeaway for everybody from this should be that part of the conversation and that's just diversify out of of liquidation a little bit because you can make a c a crap load of money. I mean, like, you know, n neither me Mike doesn't sound like like I'm not a very like I don't like to brag. I don't like to really talk about I don't talk about like exact numbers 'cause I don't and I've debated that with my content, right? Because I want people to follow us and to look at me like I know like something like what I'm doing. I didn't go to school. I dropped out of college. so like everything I've done I've taught myself to do it. And so I've always it's a it's Mike Lavigne: But you've been in this for such a long time. Like that speaks for itself. And you know, you Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: have a good name in this business as well. So and that's something to be very proud of. Zac: It's definitely definitely yeah, it's you know, this industry and I had a lady reach out to me and she was like, So and so said like d you know, your name came up in a in a bad way the other day and I was like, Well, tell me the situation. I'm like, I've been here for twelve years. I was like, If you have if everyone in this business likes you, something's probably I'm more like I'm more skeptical if I've never heard a bad thing about you than if I've only ever heard good stuff because you've not sold enough. Like I've sold thousands of truckloads. I'm sorry. I'm gonna piss somebody off. There's just there's there's no way that I've sold, you know, I I watched I talked to somebody the other day, like we have a four percent customer like complaint rate. I'm like you're full of it. There's no way, dude. There's no way. I s you sell two thousand trucks in a year and you're telling me less than twenty of them you gotta like complain to on. There's no. No. There's no way it's okay. Like I can't control what comes out of a direct, you know. If you want a direct Mike Lavigne: Mm-hmm. Zac: load and I sell you a direct load, and I have a question about you guys and how you guys are doing as far as truckload sales. but if I'm brokering a truck and this is my pitch to people, is especially unmanifested, you want it direct. I'm this is all the information that I have. I'm giving it to you. My fee for doing this and facilitating is my broker fee. And I've honestly debated starting to put the my fee on the invoice. So instead of it being target truckload nine grand. It's target truckload 8,500, broker fee 500. So you see it and you know, listen, I'm facilitating this to the best of my ability. You're not paying me for insurance. Like, if there's an issue with the load, I will fight tooth and nail for you, but you're not paying for that. You know, like I'm sorry they shipped some guy complained to me, they shipped me six pounds of X. It came from the like direct facility to your door. What do you want me to do? I can't give you a three thousand dollar credit or a refund. I made five hundred bucks, dude. Like I can be as transparent as possible. Mike Lavigne: That's not enough to a lot of people. Zac: It's and it's not I think people get confused they confuse wholes or liquidation with wholesale and it's two different like it's yes, we sell it at wholesale prices or below wholesale, but like if you wanna buy again, I have a cup, so like I can sell you these cups wholesale for six dollars a piece. That is wholesale because retail is twelve. Liquidation you get it for three dollars a piece because there might be a dent in the side or this color doesn't sell very well. Like there's a reason why it's being liquidated versus wholesale. But going back backtracking a little bit to the truck sales, you know, back COVID, pre COVID, we were super big in the liquidation industry, like brokering trucks. And our I went back 'cause someone had made a post and I was like, I wonder how many loads we sold. And our best year we sold three thousand trucks. We brokered three thousand loads. It was a lot of work. the margins were better back then. You know, you could you could mark something up up to a thousand bucks a truck and nobody like ever it was fair, you know. The guy on the end still made money, I made money, the guy I bought from everybody was making money. I see today, you know, when Dollar General was being pushed real heavy earlier this year, the people were fighting over a hundred and fifty dollar broker fees. Like that was the margin. You know, are you s are you seeing do you have a limit? Some guys have a limit. They say, Listen, I won't charge you any more than X. but are you seeing it's harder and harder to be that middleman broker? And there's the margin has to be Mike Lavigne: So I don't yeah, I try not to actually broker any stuff anymore. Like this is This is just I'm trying to limit negative contact, we'll say. Like that's where you run into an issue is when you're doing that. however, I will say a lot of people do because I've been doing this for a long time and they know that, hey, you can get Dollar General for cheaper than I can. Will you just get me one? I'll be like, Yeah, just give me a couple hundred bucks. so I did that like the last round of Dollar General. Like I think I ended up getting 10 loads for people. just To get it, but I'm like, I don't want any of it. And I'm like, Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: and they know it, you know, they came from Inmar, but and it's no different like CVS. I used to get a great deal on CVS from Inmar. Everybody knew it. So they would Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: call me and be like, hey, can you just get me a a load and I'll give you 500 bucks or whatever? I'm like, yeah. I've never charged more than 500 on a on a brokered load when I was brokering though. Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: And sometimes like I have Amish customers of mine that are very loyal that I'll just charge them a hundred and fifty bucks flat price. But ironically, Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: twenty years ago when I started, they're the ones who gave me a list of everywhere to buy discounted foods. So I'm like, I have a little bit of loyalty towards them. Zac: For sure. Mike Lavigne: And I can like they'll buy anything from me now. They're like, We trust Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: you. So whatever. And so that's really nice. And to me, the the relationship's worth more than the money. And you know, 150 Zac: yeah. Mike Lavigne: bucks is I don't care. Like I like I said, I'm to a point. Like, I don't necessarily know if I do this for the money anymore, as stupid as it sounds. I really like I take a lot of pride in helping others gain wealth and you know, build their portfolio. I, you know, we're very fortunate. and I think as arrogant I don't want to sound arrogant, but I feel like I'm to the point where enough is enough. Like I've I've made the amount of money that I'm comfortable with. Yes, you can always make more, but like I don't want to cross that line between being content and getting greedy. And Zac: For sure. Mike Lavigne: so I I I'm okay with, you know, like how we do it. My whole business philosophy is you just make a little bit of money off a shit ton of people. And, you know, my little bit of Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: money is small. Like sometimes our palette markup is 15 bucks. Zac: Yeah. Mike Lavigne: So, but you know, when I was selling a lot, I didn't really care. You know, I didn't have much for bills. So Zac: Exactly. Mike Lavigne: yeah. But I mean, the biggest thing is, you know, honesty and integrity in this business is so hard to find. There's so many bullshitters out there that'll tell you whatever to buy shit. And sadly we see it more and more now because there's a lot of people sitting on stuff and a lot of desperation. So as your viewers watch this, just you know, be careful in everything you do out there. Zac: Yeah. No, the the higher the pricing gets, the the higher the overhead cost gets, the more you're gonna see the scammers out there. And to your point, you know, you saying you you're doing this more now for the to help other people, you know, up I'm here to make a lot of money. I'll be honest with everybody. Like I'm not done. And I don't know that is a that is a personal Mike Lavigne: I'm older than you, Zach. Zac: You're all yeah, I'm thirty, you know, you look like you're thirty five, so not that not that far. Mike Lavigne: almost fifty. Zac: You know, I'm not done. I don't know that's a mental thing for me that I have to because it it makes me unhappy a lot of times. Like, I don't see the finish line. but the reason for our content, and I make zero right now with the content. I don't know if we'll ever make money off the content. But this is like for me, it's my way of like I do wanna help people. When we first started selling palettes, we had, you know, I forget our purpose was we want to help other people. quit their nine to five and that was like our reason and our like purpose of s like the palette sales. And for the past like I don't know, I stopped selling pallets about four years ago. I kind of feel like I've I've lost that purpose of like helping other people. And it's just been really like I said, we've made money. I can't complain but like I wanna help people 'cause it's This industry's not difficult if you can find the right supplier. It's really simple. The the barrier of entry is very low. You're talking to somebody that didn't again, I didn't finish college. I just I figured it out and it's it's really easy. But there's a lot of hurdles that to jump over and there's a lot of ways to lose money. And our goal is to help people get there a little bit faster and try to avoid paying some of the stupid tax that I paid. And if I can save somebody some money then then it's it's well worth it. but yeah, I think That is our reason for the content is I wanna help people succeed and build wealth, especially outside of liquidation. I mean, it's a great place to to stack up some cash, but my biggest is like get it out. Go do something else with it because liquidation will always be here. There's always gonna be a deal. Like, always. People going out of business or a product to be g gotten rid of. There's always gonna be here, you know, to come back to, but just use it, like use it carefully, and it'll pay for itself. It'll you you know. For sure. Mike Lavigne: Yep, absolutely. Zac: So I think you had a hard cutoff, if I recall. You you gave me eleven o'clock your time and you had something to be, somewhere to be. And I do my pitch to people is like I only I try to take an hour of people's time because most people can't Mike Lavigne: That's all right. We got started late. Zac: Yeah, well most people can't watch for an hour anyway. So like I see some some podcasts that go on for two, three hours and I'm like I can't I have a tough time watching a TikTok for sixty seconds. Yeah, it's not Mike Lavigne: No I have ADHD. We can't watch that. Zac: it's not gonna happen. So we'll clip it up and we'll you know, we'll post it and and we'll tag you in it and I'll probably ask you to do it again in a few months 'cause there's a million things we didn't get to talk about that, you know, I know we we probably could have. And Mike Lavigne: So Zac: Well Mike Lavigne: yeah. Zac: Well, I appreciate you coming on. Spending an hour talking Mike Lavigne: Yeah, no problem. Zac: to us. We'll do it again. And Mike Levine, Med City Auctions, and what is your tag on on whatnot? Because we'll plug that for you. Mike Lavigne: at Med City Liquid. Zac: Perfect. Easy to remember. thanks Mike. We'll talk to you again soon.