Inperson participant 1: Hey everybody, we're back, episode four of the Formed Podcast through our Romans eight series. Yeah. Chris, how are we doing today? Man, you know, I think before we start, Jacob, we're gonna have to just just express the the sadness that we have in all of our hearts that the Bucks did not in fact make the playoffs. Hey, they did not make the playoffs. But I'm I'm a celebratory guy because the pirates have not had a winning record.

Jacob Creighton: Hey everybody, we're back, episode four of the Formed Podcast through our Romans eight series. Yeah. Chris, how are we doing today? Man, you know, I think before we start, Jacob, we're gonna have to just just express the the sadness that we have in all of our hearts that the Bucks did not, in fact, make the playoffs. They did not make the playoffs. But I'm winning record. I'm a celebratory guy because the the pirates have not had a winning record.

Inperson participant 1: really many years of my life. Yeah. And so you gotta you gotta take your I'm taking this as a win. You know somebody the other day said to me, he was like, how'd the pirates do? Probably another losing season. I was No. No, you can't no. We had a winning season. We barely missed the playoffs. Yeah. We're heading If we'd have been in the American league, we'd have been in the playoffs. I know. But we're in the real league, the national So I mean I have hope for the future. Sorry, I had I had to bring that up just

Jacob Creighton: really many years of my life. Yeah. And so you gotta you gotta take your I I'm taking this as a win. Somebody the other day said to me, he was like, how'd the Pirates do probably another losing season? I was like, no. No, you can't no we had a winning season. We barely missed the playoffs. Yeah. We're if we'd have been the American league, we'd have been in the playoffs. I know. But we're in the real league, the national I know so I mean I have hope for the future. Sorry, I had I had to bring that up just

Inperson participant 1: I was sad that I was sad that the season ended this year. Yeah, that's fair. Usually you're wanting to put Like we ran out of games to watch and I was like, man, they're playing pretty well. Yeah. Usually in in like July, you're like Yeah, usually it's like August, July. It's just we lose we hit a ten game losing streak and it's over. Yeah. So not this year. Not this year. yeah, Romans eight. We are in verses eighteen through twenty five, following along from your week four sermon. Yeah.

Jacob Creighton: I was sad that I was sad that the season ended this year. Yeah, that's fair. Usually you're wanting to put Like we ran out of games to watch and I was like, man, they're playing pretty well. Yeah. Usually in in like July, you're like Yeah, usually it's like August, July. It's just we lose we hit a ten game losing streak and it's over. Yeah. So not this year. Not this year. yeah, Romans eight. We are in verses eighteen through twenty five following along from your week four sermon. Yeah.

Inperson participant 1: Yeah, Chris, you want to read it? Yeah, today's I that sermon was declared for promised glory, so I guess that's why we can talk about the books because someday I don't know about but Romans don't get us on the steeler. So Romans eight, eighteen through twenty-five says, For

Jacob Creighton: Yeah, Chris, you want to read it? Yeah, today's I that sermon was declared for promised glory. So I guess that's why we can talk about the books, because someday I don't know about but Romans don't get us on the Steelers. So Romans eight, eighteen through twenty-five says, For

Inperson participant 1: I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared to the glory that it's be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.

Jacob Creighton: I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared to the glory that it's be revealed to us. For the anxious longing of creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.

Inperson participant 1: For the creation was subjected to futility and frustration, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption and to the freedom of the glory of the children of God. I love that statement. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

Jacob Creighton: For the creation was subjected to futility and frustration, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption and to the freedom of the glory of the children of God. I love that statement. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

Inperson participant 1: And not only this, but we ourselves also having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves grown within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, which is the redemption of our body. For in hope we have been saved. But hope that is seen is not hope for who hopes for what he already sees. But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance, we wait eagerly for it. That's so good. I

Jacob Creighton: And not only this, but we ourselves also having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves grown within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, which is the redemption of our body. For in hope we have been saved. But hope that is seen is not hope for who hopes for what he already sees. But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance, we wait eagerly for it. That's so good.

Inperson participant 1: I

Jacob Creighton: I

Inperson participant 1: think a big reason why we're doing this series is it when I think about Romans eight, obviously you think about verse one. You think about the end. Yeah. There's so much beauty in Romans eight. But I think there's some of this in the middle that gets lost because of how good the stuff in the book ends is. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, even just reading this today, like what what's like hitting you fresh this morning reading? this morning?

Jacob Creighton: think a big reason why we're doing this series is it when I think about Romans eight, obviously you think about verse one. You think about the end. Yeah. There's so much beauty in Romans eight. But I think there's some of this in the middle that gets lost because of how good the stuff on the book ends is. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, even just reading this today, like what what's like hitting you fresh this morning reading this morning does

Inperson participant 1: That

Jacob Creighton: That

Inperson participant 1: statement I think that statement in twenty-two, for we know. Yeah. It's this, I think, common knowledge. It it's said again in in eight twenty-eight, which again is like a crown jewel of Romans eight, but this all builds into this, you know, for we know that everything is groaning and suffering the pains of childbirth together, which is

Jacob Creighton: statement I think that statement in twenty-two, for we know. Yeah. It's this, I think, common knowledge. It it's said again in in eight twenty-eight, which again is like a crown jewel of Romans eight, but this all builds into this, you know, for we know that everything is groaning and suffering the pains of childbirth together, which is

Inperson participant 1: Like in and of itself, this super just God Paul is so good at just taking all these things and just cramming them into this small little package of a sentence. For we know Yeah that creation groans, but it groans with the pains of childbirth. Which obviously I mean we talked about in the sermon how like childbirth y you know, moms go through this immense amount of pain. I mean, you have been there with Taylor, I have been there twice with Rachel. I mean

Jacob Creighton: Like in and of itself, this super just God, Paul is so good at just taking all these things and just cramming them into this small little package of a sentence. For we know Yeah that creation groans, but it groans with the pains of childbirth. Which obviously I mean, we talked about in the sermon how like childbirth, y you know, moms go through this immense amount of pain. I mean, you have been there with Taylor. I have been there twice with Rachel. I mean

Inperson participant 1: I massive amounts of respect for my wife. I just I was awestruck and speechless, which takes a lot to make me go speechless. But watching that, but in the midst of the pains of childbirth, I don't know about you, but I I I don't ever talk to women and they're like, It was the most painful thing I've ever gone through. It was the worst thing ever. It was they they never say that. It's just this

Jacob Creighton: I had a massive amounts of respect for my wife. I just I was awestruck and speechless, which takes a lot to make me go speechless. But watching that, but in the midst of the pains of childbirth, I don't know about you, but I I I don't ever talk to women and they're like, it was the most painful thing I've ever gone through. It was the worst thing ever. It was they they never say that. It's just this.

Inperson participant 1: They they obviously endured this incredible amounts of pain, but they they talk about the joy of of that child that comes and I unspeakable pain brings about just immense amounts of joy. Yeah. And we know this. Yeah. We don't always like verbalize it. We don't always like I think like let allow it to actually hit our cognition per se is more of an implicit thing. Yeah, it's like it's

Jacob Creighton: They they obviously endured this incredible amounts of pain, but they they talk about the joy of of that child that comes and unspeakable pain brings about just immense amounts of joy. Yeah. And we know this. Yeah. We don't always like verbalize it. We don't always like I think like let allow it to actually hit our cognition per se is more of an implicit thing. Yeah, it's like it's

Inperson participant 1: He's basically saying, Let's be real. Mm-hmm. Let's be real. Hold the whole creation groans and suffers the pains together until now. We've we've experienced this. Yeah. Let's be honest about it. Yeah. I think what's hitting me this morning reading this, and and this is a big part of what your talk was, but that verse eighteen, for I consider mm that the sufferings of his present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed in us. There's like a thought process here.

Jacob Creighton: He's basically saying, Let's be real. Mm-hmm. Let's be real. Hold the whole creation groans and suffers the pains together until now. We've we've experienced this. Yeah. Let's be honest about it. Yeah. I think what's hitting me this morning reading this, and and this is a big part of what your talk was, but that verse eighteen, for I consider mm that the sufferings of his present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed in us. There's like a thought process here.

Inperson participant 1: about his suffering and about the future and how to think about that rightly. That yeah, I I wanna wanna dive into it right there. Like, man, the question I have, yeah, for I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared. When I think about suffering, suffering in my own life, suffering around me, a lot of times it's easy to be like,

Jacob Creighton: about his suffering and about the future and how to think about that rightly. That yeah, I I wanna wanna dive into it right there. Like, man, the question I have, yeah, for I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared. When I think about suffering, suffering in my own life, suffering around me, a lot of times it's easy to be like,

Inperson participant 1: it almost like caught up in a cloud of it where it's like that's all you see or that's all you can think about it or you kind of push it off to the corner and you feel it but you aren't addressing it. Yep. yeah, how how can we kind of take this mindset that Paul is saying, Hey, when you think about your suffering, yeah. Think about it in this way. Yeah.

Jacob Creighton: it almost like caught up in a cloud of it where it's like that's all you see or that's all you can think about it or you kind of push it off to the corner and you feel it but you aren't addressing it. Yep. yeah, how how can we kind of take this mindset that Paul is saying, Hey, when you think about your suffering, yeah. Think about it in this way. Yeah.

Inperson participant 1: Yeah, let's just talk about that. How's it different? I mean, I think that's the hard part here is I I think there's a lot of ways to go about this the wrong way. Yeah. It's it it's almost like the this suck it up mentality of like it can't be that bad. Think about the glory that's coming. And it's like again, go back to the childbirth analogy. Like I I'm not gonna tell my wife, Hey, suck it up, the baby's coming. Like that would not go well at all. It it didn't go well anyway, in some ways. It

Jacob Creighton: Yeah, let's just talk about that. How's it different? I mean, I think that's the hard part here is I I think there's a lot of ways to go about this the wrong way. Yeah. It's it it's almost like the this suck it up mentality of like it can't be that bad. Think about the glory that's coming. And it's like again, go back to the childbirth analogy. Like I I'm not gonna tell my wife, hey, suck it up, the baby's coming. Like that would not go well at all. It it didn't go well anyway, in some ways. It

Inperson participant 1: Not definitely not gonna go well that way. and so I think it's like you know, I I think the first point our sermon was we we said to compare this rightly. Yeah, like how do you compare, how do we hold the tension as people who know that glory is coming, but also like live in the midst of our suffering now. Yeah. Because I don't think we're just supposed to make these sufferings just disappear or just ignore them.

Jacob Creighton: Not definitely not gonna go well that way. and so I think it's like you know, I I think the first point our sermon was we we said to compare this rightly. Yeah like how do you compare, how do we hold the tension as people who know that glory is coming, but also like live in the midst of our suffering now. Yeah. Because I don't think we're just supposed to make these sufferings just disappear. Or just ignore them. Shove them in the corner, act like they're not

Inperson participant 1: Shove in the corner, act they're not Yeah.

Jacob Creighton: Right there. Yeah, I mean, you think about who wrote this. You know, it's Paul. He's not disconnected from his experiences writing this. It's like, you know, beatings, floggings. Well, and that's the thing is Romans. Romans shows up early in like the New Testament books, but it actually was written much later.

Inperson participant 1: Yeah, y I mean you think about who wrote this, you know, it's Paul. He's not disconnected from his experiences writing this. Like, you know, beatings, floggings. Well and that's the thing is Romans of stuff. Romans shows up early in like the New Testament books, but it actually was written much later.

Jacob Creighton: It's one of Paul's later works. Right. Where he's he's seeing all the different things that need to be cleaned up within the church.

Inperson participant 1: It's one of Paul's later works. Right. Where he's he's seeing all the different things that need to be cleaned up within the church. And is like, here's this massive, you know, sixteen chapter writing that I'm gonna do. And it's so powerful, that's why they moved it early into the New Testament like order. but this is yeah, post this is post beatings, floggings, imprisonments, imprisonments, nights without food. Right.

Jacob Creighton: And is like here's this massive you know, sixteen chapter writing that I'm gonna do. And it's so powerful, that's why they moved it early into the New Testament, yeah, like order. but this is yeah, post this is post beatings, floggings, imprisonments, imprisonment, nights without food. Right. You know, in in in all the travel he did, I'm sure that was not first class. Yeah. Wore out wore out feet and yeah, busted sandals.

Inperson participant 1: You know, it in it. All the travel he did, I'm sure that was not first class. Yeah. Wore out wore out feet and busted sandals. broken relationships. I mean I was reading the Acts the other day when they had the rift. Yeah. and you know, th there were broken relationships. There were there were, you know, people that he encountered that were just brutal towards people with the gospel. Anyway, all that to say it's he's still saying

Jacob Creighton: Broken relationships. I mean, I was reading Jacks the other day when they had the rift. Yeah. and you know, th there were broken relationships, there were there were, you know, people that he encountered that were just brutal towards people with the gospel. Anyway, all that to say, it's he's still saying, these sufferings, the more I process God's coming glory, the glory that we're promised, that that that were declared for.

Inperson participant 1: These sufferings, the more I process God's coming glory, the glory that we're promised, that that that were declared for, these sufferings have a limitation here. What's the worst that can happen? He kind of he kind of shows his hand at the end of the chapter. Yeah. He's like, Nothing can separate me from the love of my God. Like you can kill me. Right. But my death, yeah, my death, like the the the magnitude of my death cannot equate the glory that is coming.

Jacob Creighton: These sufferings have a limitation here. What's the worst that can happen? He kind of he kind of shows his hand at the end of the chapter. Yeah. He's like, Nothing can separate me from the love of my God. Like you can kill me. Right. But my death, yeah, my death, like the the the magnitude of my death cannot equate the glory that is coming. Yeah, I like what you said earlier too, and what that was your first point was comparing rightly. Yeah.

Inperson participant 1: Yeah, I like what you said earlier too, and what that was your first point was comparing rightly. Yeah. we're not saying compare your sufferings to Paul or to somebody else or to everything else. You're actually comparing the sufferings that you're going through and the like the pain that you experience with the glory that's to be revealed in us. And there's like an unimagin like can't comprehend that type of glory right now as we're

Jacob Creighton: We're not saying compare your sufferings to Paul or to somebody else or to everything else. You're actually comparing the sufferings that you're going through and like the pain that you experience with the glory that's to be revealed in us. And there's like an unimagin like can't comprehend that type of glory right now as we're feeling that in the midst of our suffering. so we compare now and I think we'll compare then.

Inperson participant 1: Feeling that in the midst of our suffering. so we compare it now and I think we'll compare then back to now and be like, wait, what? Yeah. I mean, I think suffering is is a it's the human experience essentially. you know, I actually use the and this has been funny, the Princess Bride throughout the you the good old nineteen nineteen hundreds movie of the Princess Bride where Wesley tells the Highness, Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who tells you differently is selling you something.

Jacob Creighton: Back to me, I'll be like, wait, what? Yeah. I mean, I think suffering is is like it's the human experience, essentially. you know, I actually use the and this has been funny, the Princess Bride throughout the you the good old 19 1900s movie of the Princess Bride where Wesley tells the Highness, Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who tells you differently is selling you something.

Inperson participant 1: And how true is that? I mean, suffering is essentially the human experience.

Jacob Creighton: And how true is that? I mean, suffering is essentially the human experience. And I think that's where we forget, especially in our 21st century American minds and our culture, we are so protected from a lot of things that have been dealt with for thousands of years in the human experience. Because we have the common grace of modern medicine, we have the common grace of a justice system and a legal system

Inperson participant 1: And I think that's where we forget, especially in our 21st century American minds and our culture, we are so protected from a lot of things that have been dealt with for thousands of years in the human experience. because we have the common grace of modern medicine, we have the common grace of a justice system and a legal system.

Jacob Creighton: that protects us in some way, shape, or form. Obviously, there's imperfections there. But

Inperson participant 1: That protects us in some way, shape, or form. Obviously, there's imperfections there. but man,

Jacob Creighton: Man,

Inperson participant 1: there's the the the suffering that we experience, it it needs to like draw us into this, the depths of the reality of of our sin and the consequences of sin. But then what it can also do is it draws us in to the depths of who we are.

Jacob Creighton: there's the the suffering that we experience, it it needs to like draw us into this, the depths of the reality of of our sin and the consequences of sin. But then what it can also do is it draws us in to the depths of who we are, knowing that what Christ did for us on the cross healed this.

Inperson participant 1: Knowing that what Christ did for us on the cross healed this,

Jacob Creighton: Yeah. Cured this, poured grace upon this, provided the love that was needed to pull us out of this. Yeah. Which means what we're experiencing, the depths of which we're experiencing. Yeah. Like if our God is so much greater than that, I mean, you go and read Genesis one. We've been doing that in our Discovery Bible study, six thirty Wednesday nights. I'm here at the church. But we've been we've been reading recently through

Inperson participant 1: cured this, poured grace upon this, provided the love that was needed to pull us out of this. Yeah. Which means what we're experiencing, the depths of which we're experiencing. Yeah. Like if our God is so much greater than that, I mean, you go and read Genesis one, we've been doing that in our Discovery Bible study, 6:30 Wednesday nights. I'm here at the church. But we've been we've been reading recently through

Jacob Creighton: the creation story. And all of us are just sitting there baffled by just how amazing.

Inperson participant 1: The creation story. And all of us are just sitting there baffled by just how amazing it was in the garden and just the glory of walking with God and the coolness of the day. And then instantly how broken it became. And how we're just normalized to that. And we we the the suffering is the human experience, but we never take a minute to experience what's on the other side. Right. What we're promised, the glory that is to come.

Jacob Creighton: it was in the garden and just the glory of walking with God in the coolness of the day and then instantly how broken it became. Yeah. And how we're just normalized to that. Yeah. And we we the the suffering is the human experience, but we never take a minute to experience what's on the other side. Right. What we're promised, the glory that is to come. Yeah. And so I do think like holding the tension of those is very important.

Inperson participant 1: Yeah. And so I do think like holding the tension of those is very important. Yeah,

Jacob Creighton: Yeah,

Inperson participant 1: and I think what he goes into, you know, verse twenty two, twenty-three, which you highlighted earlier. Our our our invitation into I think experiencing both things at the same time is verse twenty three. And not only this, but we but also we ourselves having the first fruits of the spirit, yeah. Even we ourselves grown within ourselves. Yeah.

Jacob Creighton: and I think what he goes into, you know, verse twenty-two, twenty-three, which you highlighted earlier. Our our our invitation into I think experiencing both things at the same time is verse twenty-three. And not only this, but we but also we ourselves having the first fruits of the spirit. Even we ourselves grown within ourselves. Yeah. Waiting eagerly for the adoption of

Inperson participant 1: waiting eagerly for the adoption of s as sons, the redemption of our body. So we have the first fruits of the spirit. At the same time we groan, we're waiting. That's like the that's the moment where we experience that. But I I think is is what we're invited into is to be honest about our suffering, to be honest about the situation we're in. Yeah. And and honesty doesn't just look back

Jacob Creighton: s as sons, the redemption of our body. So we have the first fruits of the spirit. At the same time we groan, we're waiting. Uh-huh. That's like the that's the moment where we experience that. But I I think is is what we're invited into is to be honest about our suffering, to be honest about the situation we're in. Yeah. And and honesty doesn't just look back to the suffering, it looks ahead to what we're expecting as well. So

Inperson participant 1: to the suffering, it looks ahead to what we're expecting as well. So yeah.

Jacob Creighton: Yeah. Well,

Inperson participant 1: Well

Jacob Creighton: and I think I mean that first fruits statement is so incredible. Because it's, you know, it's indicating there. Again, Paul is like taking this little analogy and like blowing things up with it in this this small little package. And and here he's saying, you know, we there we have the first fruits of the spirit. And so

Inperson participant 1: and I think I mean that first fruits statement is so incredible. Because it's, you know, it's indicating there. Again, Paul is like taking this little analogy and like blowing things up with it in this this small little package. And and here he's saying, you know, we there we have the first fruits of the spirit. And so

Jacob Creighton: I think that's why it's it's so incredible to see, even in the midst of like the life of our church. I mean, there's some people that are dealing with some incredibly difficult.

Inperson participant 1: Think that's why it's it's so incredible to see, even in the midst of like the life of our church, I mean there's some people that are dealing with some incredibly difficult situations and circumstances, and some that like go back even generations in their family. And but yet they're saying within themselves, I but I even in the midst of this pastor, I have this peace or I have this hope. And it's I it's like overwhelming as as

Jacob Creighton: situations and circumstances and some that like go back even generations in their family. And but yet they're saying within themselves, I but I even in the midst of this pastor, I have this peace or I have this hope. And it's I it's like overwhelming as as to sit there because I'm like, man, I cannot imagine living one day in your life and yet you still have this level of

Inperson participant 1: To sit there because I'm like, man, I cannot imagine living one day in your life, and yet you still have this level of hope and expectation that God will do something. Yeah. I mean, that's that's a first fruit of the spirit. No, no one else has that. And that's not a like manifested positivity there. Yeah, no. It is.

Jacob Creighton: Yeah. An expectation that God will do something. Yeah. I mean, that's that's a first fruit of the spirit. No, no one else has that. And that's not a like manifested positivity there. No, no. It is it is within the depths of their soul. It's like I know this is to be there, this is true. Yeah. And yeah, it kind of leaves again, it's one of those things that just leaves me speechless.

Inperson participant 1: It is within the depths of their soul. It's like I know this is to be there. This is true. Yeah. And yeah, it kind of leaves it again, it's one of those things that just leaves me speechless. Yeah,

Jacob Creighton: Yeah,

Inperson participant 1: it's the essence of the Christian life, even kind of going to your last point, I think, is this hope that we have. Yeah.

Jacob Creighton: it's the essence of the Christian life, even kinda going to your last point, I think, is this hope that we have. Yeah. That we wait expectantly for hope. We deal with suffering. Yeah. We look forward to the future with a real hope. Yeah. Not like we say all the time, not wishful thinking, not just like, you know, unicorns and rainbows. That's like, we'll hope for some like we'll

Inperson participant 1: That we wait expectantly for hope. We deal with suffering. Yeah. We look forward to the future with a real hope. Yeah. Not like we say all the time, not wishful thinking, not just like, you know, unicorns and rainbows. That's like, we'll hope for some like well. We're coming up with this 'cause it's the the best way to think. No, this is a real hope that is that's ours in Christ Jesus. The first fruits, like you're saying, it's like that initial deposit that you know, okay. Yeah.

Jacob Creighton: Coming up with this 'cause it's the the best way to think. No, this is a real hope that is that's ours in Christ Jesus. The first fruits, like you're saying, it's like that initial deposit that you know, okay. Yep, yep. This for sure is coming. Well

Inperson participant 1: Yep. This for sure is coming. well and I think too, I don't know about you, Jacob, but this is one thing I've since studying this, it's like where where are those true in my life? Where there where are those first fruits in my life? And I think that's what I've been asking myself. Because I

Jacob Creighton: and I think too, I don't know about you, Jacob, but this is one thing I've since studying this, it's like where where are those true in my life? Where there where are those first fruits in my life? And I think that's what I've been asking myself because I should

Inperson participant 1: I get so like down on myself. Yeah. I I you know, I I've probably focused too much on my sin in in not that I'm not I I am

Jacob Creighton: I get so like down on myself. I I you know I I've probably focused too much on my sin in and not that I'm not I I am a a sinful man, but sometimes it's like I wonder if Jesus would be like, Chris, stop. Like I paid for that. Yeah, yeah. Let's go. And that kind of reminder of like the first fruits of the spirit is sitting in that forgiveness. Yeah. It's it's the ability that

Inperson participant 1: Sinful man, but sometimes it's like I wonder if Jesus would be like, Chris, stop. Like I paid for that. Yeah, yeah. Let's go. And that kind of reminder of like the first fruits of the spirit is sitting in that forgiveness. Yeah. It's it's the ability that I don't have to condemn myself for this. That's a first fruit of the spirit. Where in in heaven to come, in eternity to come, yeah. I I don't, I can't, I can't fathom a

Jacob Creighton: don't have to condemn myself for this. That's a first fruit of the spirit. Where in in heaven to come, in eternity to come, yeah, I I don't I can't I can't fathom that I'll be considering these all these these bad things that I've done. Yeah. I will be considering how I'm standing in in the in in God's glory. Right. Yeah. And I think balancing some of that like

Inperson participant 1: that I'll be considering these all these these bad things that I've done. Yeah. I will be considering how I'm standing in in the in in God's glory. Right. Yeah. And I think balancing some of that, like where

Jacob Creighton: Where

Inperson participant 1: do I see the first fruits really playing out in my life? Yeah. I th you saying that I think drops you into that story that you kind of shared at the end from John Newton. yeah.

Jacob Creighton: do I see the first fruits really playing out in my life? Yeah. I th you saying that I think drops you into that story that you kind of shared at the end from John Newton. yeah. Yeah. I I actually read this in multiple commentaries and I was like, Thank God for this. I'm just gonna steal it. or borrow, I guess, is a better word. So,

Inperson participant 1: Yeah, I I actually read this in multiple commentaries and I was like, Thank God for this. I'm just gonna steal it. or borrow, I guess, is a better word. So yeah, this the story was about eighteenth century Anglican cleric, Reverend John Newton. Yeah. And apparently he was sharing with his congregation and he said, a man you know, inherited this incredible inheritance, didn't know it was coming and realized

Jacob Creighton: Yeah, this the story was about eighteenth century Anglican cleric, Reverend John Newton. Yep. And apparently he was sharing with his congregation and he said a man you know inherited this incredible inheritance, didn't know it was coming and realized it's there, but he has to travel a long way to get to it. Yeah. And so he travels in of course 18th century. So he's hopping into a carriage, traversing the the nice

Inperson participant 1: It's there, but he has to travel a long way to get to it. Yeah. And so he travels in of course 18th century. So he's hopping into a carriage, you know, traversing the the nice paved roads, I'm sure, of 18th century England. Right. and you know, obviously it's not easy travel, but he's a mile away from wherever he's having to go and his carriage breaks down. What does he do? Does he just sit there and, you know,

Jacob Creighton: paved roads, I'm sure, of 18th century England. Right. and, you know, obviously it's not easy travel, but he's a mile away from wherever he's having to go and his carriage breaks down. What does he do? Does he just sit there and, you know, blast his carriage for the wheels being broken and the horse dying or whatever else? It's like, no, my man knows he has a a

Inperson participant 1: Blast his carriage for the wheels being broken and the horse dying or whatever else. It's like, no, my man knows he has a a an inheritance that is a mile away from him that is life-changing. And I love what he says. His quote is, what a fool we should think of him if we saw him wringing his hands and blubbering out all the remaining mile. My carriage is broken. My carriage is broken.

Jacob Creighton: An inheritance that is a mile away from him that is life-changing. And I love what he says. His quote is, What a fool we should think of him if we saw him wringing his hands and blubbering out all the remaining mile. My carriage is broken. My carriage is broken. And you know, I just I think so often, like I thought of that and like laugh, but it's like it's funny because that's what I do. Yeah, exactly. I've been like, yo.

Inperson participant 1: And you know, I just I think so often, like I I thought of that and like laugh, but it's like it's funny because that's what I do. Exactly. I've been like, Yaw man, like yeah, you know, right now I wring my hands like barely. It's like the house I lived in was terrible. Yeah. Like when you're thinking about your sin or you know, whatever, you're like, man, yeah. This was so bad. And

Jacob Creighton: Yeah. You know, right now I wring my hands like pairing. It's like the house I lived in was terrible. Yeah. Like when you're thinking about your sin or you know, whatever, you're like, man, this was so bad. And

Inperson participant 1: I

Jacob Creighton: I

Inperson participant 1: would just I can imagine I mean my man's carriage busted.

Jacob Creighton: would just I can imagine I mean, my man's carriage busted and he hops out that thing is a full dead on sprint for a mile to go in and secure his inheritance.

Inperson participant 1: And he hops out that thing is a full dead on sprint for a mile to go in and secure his inheritance. And it just, yeah. Again, I go back, where are these first fruits? Like what they they're here, they're present constantly. Yeah. Like, do I name them? Do I have like where's my thankful heart? Where's my

Jacob Creighton: And it just yeah. Again, I go back, where are these first fruits? Yeah like what they they're here, they're present constantly. Yeah. Like do I name them? Do I have like where's my thankful heart? Where's my right, where's my willingness to like sit in the muck and the mire of suffering, even my own and with others? Yeah.

Inperson participant 1: Where's my willingness to like sit in the muck and the mire of suffering, even my own and with others? Yeah. Not because we're just gonna just feel bad about ourselves, but because, man, a mile away is an inheritance that so we're gonna we're gonna wrestle with this thing, but we're also gonna wrestle with this thing knowing the inheritance is on the other side. That's right. And yeah. that's good. I think this this all sounds great. Yeah. And it is.

Jacob Creighton: Not because we're just gonna just feel bad about ourselves, but because man, a mile away is an inheritance that so we're gonna we're gonna wrestle with this thing, but we're also gonna wrestle with this thing knowing the inheritance is on the other side. That's right. And yeah. that's good. I think this this all sounds great. Yeah. It is. Yeah. But when you when there's the invitation to actually sit down and process suffering.

Inperson participant 1: Yeah. But when y when there's the invitation to actually sit down and process suffering and to even bring it to God. Yeah.

Jacob Creighton: And to even bring it to God. Yeah.

Inperson participant 1: Yeah, I just wonder how that lands on us, how that lands on our listeners. Like would we take this invitation and actually go and and do it? How do how do we do it? Yeah. I I think if I were to kind of take this and apply it to my prayer life or the maybe culture's prayer life. Yeah. sometimes I it feels like, you know, prayers need to be reverent and respectful and

Jacob Creighton: Yeah, I just wonder how that lands on us, how that lands on our listeners. Like would we take this invitation and actually go and and do it? How do how do we do it? Yeah. I I think if I were to kind of take this and apply it to my prayer life or the maybe culture's prayer life. Yeah. sometimes I it it feels like, you know, prayers need to be reverent and respectful. Yeah. You know. Yeah, yeah. Polished. I think this clearly takes that out of the invitation to take it out of that and say, hey, yeah, like be honest about what you're experiencing to God. Well, the next sermon here obviously it it gets into like we don't know how to pray as we should. Right. Yeah. So the Holy Spirit, you know, with groaning to be for words. And we see here the, you know, like the natural disaster

Inperson participant 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Polished. I think this clearly takes that out of the invitation to take it out of that and say, hey, yeah, like be honest about what you're experiencing to God. Well, the next sermon here obviously it it gets into like we don't know how to pray as we should. Right. Yeah. So the Holy Spirit, you know, with groaning to evil words. And we see here the, you know, like the natural disaster, I think is a groaning of creation. It's a like

Jacob Creighton: I think is a groaning of creation. It's a like you know, the eruption of a volcano in some ways is like the like release of the pain of the buildup of the brokenness of creation. Right. don't quote me on that scientifically, I know whatever. But it's like there, I think there's some like figurative things we can look at. And it's like within us, where does that groaning just like pour out? Because we're in a culture that

Inperson participant 1: You know, the eruption of a volcano in some ways is like the like release of the pain of the buildup of the brokenness of creation. Right. don't quote me on that scientifically, I know whatever. But it's like there I think there's some like figurative things we can look at. And it's like within us, where does that groaning just like pour out? Because we're in a culture that values like outward appearance. Right. And not

Jacob Creighton: values like outward appearance. Right. And not

Inperson participant 1: And then we think that God values our outward appearance more than He does the reaction. Yeah. Yeah, and it's and it's not even outward appearance is like physical, it's more of like our emotional outward outward appearance. And that can actually go, I think, multiple different ways, but it's what does it what does it mean for us to really pour out in prayer to name what we're suffering in, or at least as much as we can name it? Yeah. We

Jacob Creighton: And then we think that God values our outward appearance more than He does. Yeah. Reaction. Yeah. Yeah. And it's and it's not even outward appearance is like physical. It's more of like our emotional outward outward appearance. And that can actually go, I think, multiple different ways, but it's what does it what does it mean for us to really pour out in prayer to name what we're suffering in, or at least as much as we can name it. Yeah. We

Inperson participant 1: you know, to allow us to sit in.

Jacob Creighton: you know, to allow us to sit in I I mean, I think one of the the chief challenges to us as twenty first century American Christians is sitting in silence. Yeah. Is the ability to actually participate in silence and even move towards the the practice of solitude. Right. Because that's when those things are ever before us. Yeah.

Inperson participant 1: I mean, I think one of the the chief challenges to us as twenty first century American Christians is sitting in silence. Yeah. Is the ability to actually participate in silence and even move towards the the practice of solitude. Right. Because that's when those things are ever before us. Yeah. When it's quiet, we don't have something to distract us.

Jacob Creighton: When it's quiet, we don't have something to distract us.

Inperson participant 1: And we're I mean pulling back layers of just heaviness that we're feeling. Yeah. Can we sit there and actually like wait expectantly for the Lord to speak into that? Yeah. And when you go into that space, you have been carrying this yourself, and you've got a place to like open your hands and list it out. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And and I'll tell you as a confession, I mean, this is that this is really hard for.

Jacob Creighton: And we're I mean pulling back layers of just heaviness that we're feeling. Yeah. Can we sit there and actually like wait expectantly for the Lord to speak into that? Yeah. And when you go into that space, you have been carrying this yourself and you've got a place to like open your hands and list it out. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And and I'll tell you as a confession, I mean, this is that this is really hard for.

Inperson participant 1: Me. this is really hard for me to do. I mean, I've I've recently picked back up journaling, and journaling is really hard for me. Number one, because my handwriting is awful. So to do it, I act to read it, to to write it so I can read it, I actually have to slow down a lot. And so I have to be very deliberate in every stroke I make, as like what's like.

Jacob Creighton: this is really hard for me to do. I mean, I've I've recently picked back up journaling. And journaling is really hard for me. Number one, because my handwriting is awful. So to do it, I act to read it, to to write it so I can read it, I actually have to slow down a lot. And so I have to be very deliberate in every stroke I make as like what's like boiling in my heart and my head.

Inperson participant 1: boiling in my heart and my head comes out onto a page. I have to be very purposeful in that intentional and I have to sit in those things. And I ugh, I don't like it. Yeah. It's not fun for me. But it's also one of those things where it I'm always reminded of a I'm not in this alone. I again that's like a first fruit. I'm not in this alone. I'm surrounded by a God who loves me.

Jacob Creighton: comes out onto a page. I have to be very purposeful in that intentional and I have to sit in those things. And I ugh, I don't like it. Yeah. It's not fun for me. But it's also one of those things where it I'm always reminded of a I'm not in this alone. I again that's like a first fruit. I'm not in this alone. I'm surrounded by a God who loves me. Yeah. again a first fruit.

Inperson participant 1: Yeah. again a first fruit. Yeah. I'm surrounded by a God who is promising me a a a glory bef beyond any comprehension. Yeah. Another first fruit. You know, so that's when those things start to come back. Yeah, it's the it's the beautiful place that w we're welcomed into to

Jacob Creighton: I'm surrounded by a God who is promising me a a a glory bef beyond any comprehension. Yeah. Another first fruit. You know, so that's when those things start to come back. Yeah, it's the it's the beautiful place that we're welcomed into to

Inperson participant 1: grieve the suffering we experience and to just sit and walk with the spirit as he's like gives us encouragement as he takes it. yeah. Well I think one thing to just not throwing a wrench in all this, but one thing to acknowledge is that Romans is not written to one person. Yeah. Romans is written to the body of Christ. It's written to the church, like Big C church. Yeah. So it's written to us. So it's also this

Jacob Creighton: grieve the suffering we experience and to just sit and walk with the spirit as he's like gives us encouragement as he takes it. yeah. Well I think one thing to just not throwing a wrench in all this, but one thing to acknowledge is that Romans is not written to one person. Yeah. Romans is written to the body of Christ. It's written to the church, like Big C church. Yeah. So it's written to us. So it's also this

Inperson participant 1: There's a piece and part in all of this where he's not just telling you to do it by yourself, he's telling us to do it together. Right. And so there's also too like how do we do this? How do we do this together? How do you do this with someone? Husbands, how do you do it with your wives, wives? How do you do it with your husbands, friends? How do you do it with your other friends that are followers of Jesus? you know, discipleship. How can this be done together?

Jacob Creighton: There's a piece and part in all of this where he's not just telling you to do it by yourself, he's telling us to do it together. Right. And so there's also too like how do we do this? How do we do this together? How do you do this with someone? Husbands, how do you do it with your wives, wives? How do you do it with your husbands, friends? How do you do it with your other friends that are followers of Jesus? you know, discipleship. How can this be done together?

Inperson participant 1: youth workers, had youth leaders and volunteers, how do you do it with with our youth and and allow them to like begin to process through even the hardships that they're going through? I it I think it's endless there. Yeah. But then do that with this willingness to say, in the midst of this though, remember there's this beautiful glory that's coming. Yeah. These these pains that you're experiencing, just like childbirth, they're not for naught.

Jacob Creighton: youth workers, youth leaders and volunteers, how do you do it with with our youth and and allow them to like begin to process through even the hardships that they're going through? I it I think it's endless there. Yeah. But then do that with this willingness to say, in the midst of this though, remember there's this beautiful glory that's coming. Yeah. These these pains that you're experiencing, just like childbirth, they're not for naught.

Inperson participant 1: Right. Something's coming. A joy is coming. A a a a beauty is coming. Yeah.

Jacob Creighton: Right. Something's coming. A joy is coming. A a a beauty is coming. Yeah.

Inperson participant 1: That's good. and there there are no yeah, going back to even the beginning, as you lay out your sufferings, there's no comparisons you gotta make, there's no like you know, yeah, sorting them out that you've gotta do where this isn't that bad, that is not like what are they? What do what are the hard things you're experiencing? Yeah.

Jacob Creighton: That's good. and there there are no yeah, going back to even the beginning, as you lay out your sufferings, there's no comparisons you gotta make, there's no like you know, yeah, sorting them out that you've gotta do where this isn't that bad. Like what are they? What do what are the hard things you're experienced? Yeah.

Inperson participant 1: Or a blame. I mean that's the I I that's one thing. I love our congregation and I guess they follow me, but Lord have mercy. Like I am quick to condemn myself and I I I'm starting to pick up more and more and more like self condemnation in the midst of hardships. Like apologizing for them.

Jacob Creighton: Or a blame. I mean that's the I I that's one thing. I love our congregation and I guess they follow me, but Lord have mercy. Like I am quick to condemn myself and I I I'm starting to pick up more and more and more like self condemnation in the midst of hardships. Like apologizing for them.

Inperson participant 1: Like, stop blaming yourself for the suffering. I mean, the suffering is the human experience. I think there's an acknowledgement there. You probably have a part to play in that. Acknowledge that part. Let's let's process, let's wrestle through these things together. Confess what we need to confess, say what we need to say, get it out. Like, let's sit in these hardships, knowing that there's a glory that far surpasses all of these things. Yeah. That's good. That's good.

Jacob Creighton: Like stop blaming yourself for the suffering. I mean, the suffering is the human experience. I think there's an acknowledgement there. You probably have a part to play in that. Acknowledge that part. Let's let's process, let's wrestle through these things together. Confess what we need to confess. Say what we need to say. Get it out. Like, let's sit in these hardships, knowing that there's a glory that far surpasses all of these things. Yeah. That's good. That's good.

Inperson participant 1: That's all I got, Chris. Any closing comments? No, I I I just I'm excited about what's to come. Yeah, I'm excited for our next talk too, because it's definitely I mean, we're going right through Romans eight, so it's definitely an extension of this conversation. yeah, this is building for something. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna see some of these themes continue, I mean, until the end. Yep. And it's just so good. Yeah. Like I almost wanna do Romans eight and then I wanna do Romans eight again because of like

Jacob Creighton: That's all I got, Chris. Any closing comments? No, I I I just I'm excited about what's to come. Yeah, I'm excited for our next talk too, because it's definitely I mean, we're going right through Romans eight, so it's definitely an extension of this conversation. yeah, this is building for something. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna see some these themes continue, I mean, until the end. Yeah. And it's just so good. Yeah. Like I almost wanna do Romans eight and then I wanna do Romans eight again because of like

Inperson participant 1: All the things I did wrong with We'll have that chance. Yeah, we will. We will. The podcast is supposed to be a corrective thing. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah. They're not an hour and a half long, though. They probably should be. So great. Well, thanks for joining us, everybody. yeah. Give us a like, share us, comment. We'd love to answer your questions and please just engage with guys in that way. And so thanks for joining us. We'll see you next week.

Jacob Creighton: All the things I did wrong with We'll have that chance. Yeah, we will. We will. The podcast is supposed to be a corrective thing. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Yeah. They're not an hour and a half long though. They probably should be. So great. Well, thanks for joining us, everybody. yeah. Give us a like, share us, comment. We'd love to answer your questions and just engage with you guys in that way. And so thanks for joining us. We'll see you next week.