Oskar Moore: Medicinal mushrooms have moved from niche science to a multi-billion dollar global market today and it's just growing at double digits. powders, coffees and gummies we see everywhere. And when categories grow this fast, you often see that the speed beats quality. Catalina, you've built a company that's done the opposite. What's the one decision that founders get wrong? when they prioritize market momentum over scientific credibility.

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: I the biggest mistake is many times confusing the speed to market with speed truth of the product that it's going to ⁓ actually do something.

Oskar Moore: Catalina Fernández, welcome to the business of longevity. It's a pleasure to have you on the podcast. You're the CEO and founder of Jifas da Terra. And I hope I pronounced that well enough. My Spanish isn't great, but it's a European biotech company focusing on medicinal mushrooms and with a specific focus on research, clinical trials and long-term science rather than these fast trends. So I'm really excited to dig into how you've built this this business. for someone hearing about he first did terror for the first time, what is it that you guys actually do?

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: So, Jifas a button. You said it perfectly by the way. Me if I say in Spanish correctly, would be ifas de terra. But when I talk in English, when I speak in English, I always say Jifas de terra. So people ⁓ really it and understand it better. ⁓ So So thank for the introduction. Jifas.

Oskar Moore: Good. Of course.

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: If I said in a very short it's a biotech company that specializes in medicinal mushrooms. So what we do basically is studying ⁓ the molecules contented in a mushroom. ⁓ then what can we do with that? How can we offer society products that will improve their life by using these products with mushrooms in it?

Oskar Moore: And you started HeFest based on the personal experience. happened and how did it change how you viewed health?

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: So ⁓ experience ⁓ HIFAS was ⁓ was born in a family where my father, he's a scientist, he is a mycologist ⁓ also a plant doctor, phytopathologist. And I learned to ⁓ see world through the lens of science and to always, ⁓ you know, everything and really search. for is this true? Does this really work like this? you when I ⁓ grew I went to university, I studied first biology, then I did a PhD in medicine in clinical oncology. ⁓ I a lot, I did a lot in Harvard in nutrition and other specialties and other things. And also, in Masters for Business. So I have this double cap. So I have the biotech, mycology and also business oriented education. So I as soon as I started to ⁓ work with and why mushrooms? It's because we were in university and I had to make a ⁓ a project so our teacher wanted people from health be the ones producing business ⁓ only based on a business plan in numbers in something economic. ⁓ but more on the side of saying we need something that works and changes lives. know, that really science needs to improve life and not only as a matter of business plan, but just put it the other way around. First results, first, you know, make a change in the world and then make it become a business. when he said this he said okay what is what will you do it on what will your theme so for me mushrooms were all around my life and i could see that my colleagues even my teachers didn't really have that knowledge about you know mushrooms because back then 27 28 years ago Really, mean people would just you know gather mushrooms to eat and sow you know forest and in the forest and but it was not that much of a thing but I could see my father already working on research on mycorrhizas that now are like very trendy or in vogue and back then 30 years ago ⁓ could see it on a research level only so I said okay we need to bring this and this is something a must that you society really benefit from having this. So it did come from a personal point where then as I started understanding that these are biological, it will give us a biological support, a long-term biological support. It's not that we're chasing miracle cures, not symptom chasing. We are really looking into something that it's... are helping to our systems. So we're working, mushrooms work with one cell, with another cell, so all of these cells work as an organ, then another organ, and then you have the whole system. ⁓ ⁓ seeing how mushrooms work in nature, in their ecosystem, I understand and I understood that we also are an ecosystem that now are understanding with microbiota, with all of the, ⁓ know, what is being told. But 30 years ago, it was not like this. It was very much about special specialization of, know, I'm going to look at your eye, your ear, your guts. But it's as you know, it's just that ⁓ I'm specialist on this. But ⁓ What we saw is that mushrooms come a very much foundational place where it's going to help in all the system. ⁓ it's going to really be about ⁓ proactive and not reactive health. We can work on prevention therefore.

Oskar Moore: One of my phrases, focus on prevention. We have a healthcare that focuses on keeping us alive, but not preventing illness and making that thriving. And ⁓ it's sometimes the and also the importance of companies like yourselves that are so focused on it. So ⁓ I get very because ⁓ here we have who's... very scientific and at the same time understands how business grows and how to build it. And I'm kind of curious because first, what did it take for you to come with your first product launch? It must have been ⁓ capital, you have had some capital to do so. ⁓ Where you source the mushrooms from? ⁓ Who you involve? How did this kind of, how did it start?

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: So was very organically grown, everything, because... ⁓ As I say, I started from university. as ⁓ parents, ⁓ my father loved India. My mother is from New York, is American. So, know, for Americans all of it, it's about, you know, business. ⁓ ⁓ was very to me to think, ⁓ okay, going to build a business. And for family. So first was family founded, like me, myself, whatever I had since I was little ⁓ in my piggy bank.

Oskar Moore: Yes.

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: And also my parents gave me a great hand with that, starting, ⁓ really ⁓ the more basic level of saying, you know, working really hard to me with, ⁓ was teaching at that moment in ⁓ school ⁓ forestry here in Pontevedra. So had students that they needed to do some ⁓ practices a company. And I said, okay, I need to open a company and I have no money to, you know, ⁓

Oskar Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: pay, they want to learn so we can learn all together and start the company. So started like that with, mean, ⁓ underfunded, say, with a lot of effort, very much a physical, mean, really extenuating effort. And how we started? Well, we started growing mushrooms. So what we did here, our premises, it's a beautiful land. I always say it's like a secret garden. We have 14 acres and it's all, we are 15 minutes from the sea, from the Atlantic Ocean, and at the same time in inner woods. So it's kind of hidden. They always call us the rural apple because once you get here, there's a lot of technology. now, it's in the middle of the woods. so I started was starting to grow the wanted to me the obsession was to be as organic as possible, as natural as possible, always to return more to ⁓ the earth, the soil, than what we were taking from it. So ⁓ I started growing different mushrooms and serving to the different supermarkets and sell mushrooms. Then I had so many mushrooms that it was too many, so I had to dry them and start thinking, okay, I'm not going to throw them away. So I started making mushrooms in canned, so canned mushrooms and then in water and salt and then also dry them. And then little by little therapists that I knew since I was little, they started saying, but you know, Catalina, your mushrooms are so great and they're and you're taking so much care of them. But they're not only good to eat, which is very important, have a lot of evidence ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ nutraceutical properties. And said, you know, ⁓ think this, because nowadays it's kind of difficult to think about this, but we have no internet. So internet didn't exist at that moment. In university, we had access to two computers full of viruses, and it was really difficult. So the way you were going to look for evidence, it was, going to a library and say, do you have among mushrooms? Or I know that in this library in Denmark, they have this publication, can you ask them to send me this paper? So. It was another world. to build the science, was very difficult. Happily enough, the internet went building little by little, so we started having access to all of this incredible knowledge. And what I suddenly saw is that there was huge knowledge in the world being publicated in different universities all around the world. But what we had in the market had nothing to do. in terms of potency and capacities of what I could see on the papers and the science. So I said, what if we build a bridge between libraries in the world and the product that the people are taking so we can really see the results that we are seeing in science. you know, I connected this puzzle saying, let's do ⁓ with this strength and with the potency ⁓ we see that we can have results really in different illnesses. So I started doing this and it was just amazing because little by little as we started having the extracts it time more stronger. Obviously at that point I had to start go a little bit of the farming ⁓ ⁓ other people to farm and me focusing more on my training scientifically and also investing. on microscopes and also other peers or the colleagues that could help me with the science. So that time we switched from farmers to scientists and we seeing that doctors with colours, also hospitals from Madrid, ⁓ big hospitals say ⁓ are you biologist that ⁓ is giving products to the people? And I said yeah it's me ⁓ and they say okay you know I want to understand what you're doing because I see incredible results in my patients. So can we work side by side? Can I tell you what I'm going to give to my patients, my oncology patients, and you tell me what you're doing so we can really understand what we're doing and work together. So really that was the way we started working. And as a biologist, and you know, with doing my PhD and seeing what the mushrooms could do, how strongly they could help. that became ⁓ my mission, my love. It's like obsession, they have never ever deceived me when I needed them ⁓ in occasions where I really needed to do something big. It's a matter of dosage, finding right and working. The beautiful is that then we started really working alongside ⁓ doctors, oncologists, and saying their first question is, can we work alongside with medicine? Can we work with drugs? And I said, of course. mean, this is a complementary medicine. We're going to complement whatever you're doing. So that was the first thing. We need to demonstrate this is safe. So what we did is work with Merck Sharp and Dumb and there ⁓ trial ⁓ we could see that our products ⁓ completely safe to put aside drugs. From there, it absolutely incredible because if I look back, it's a lot of work, but it was kind of ⁓ reactive what people were asking us, what doctors and therapists and clients and patients were asking.

Oskar Moore: So that's a fantastic story. mean, to try and interpret it a little bit, this is exactly what many of the listeners who are interested in this health, as starting a company in the health industry, it's so clear to me that passion is number one, be passionate around this and to actually what to do with one's passion, how to bring it to market, how to exactly... how it's going to turn out here 25 years later, but starting off being really curious on the research and doing the clinical studies, trying to understand how there's a product market fit at the same time and help as many people as possible. And it's interesting because you're talking so much about the ⁓ own interest in constantly upskilling yourself, but also ⁓ some of your employees. And you've that ⁓ you invest more than 60 % of profits into R &D still today and that this isn't a but it's your responsibility. So why that path when the market rewards speed and ⁓ storytelling at stage where you are right now?

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: Well, We, market, I think the market rewards ⁓ So it's the beautiful, ⁓ the good thing is that IFAS has both because we have a beautiful story, you know, and it's true. It's, you know, when... ⁓ me at one point, was kind of also, when would come from the pharma labs, and so I thought they would like to see a big building, glass building, with a lot of people with white collars around. And that was not what they were finding here. They were finding a forest where we have the labs in the forest. And ⁓ for time I felt... to be something that made us more vulnerable but then things turned around with time and people realized that back to nature is the way. So now many that in that we felt like on the start would say, you know, you're kind of hippies coming from biology, ⁓ cultivating mushrooms. What it all about? ⁓ Bungies, you know, what are you talking But today, all of those values aligned and right now, that is trendy, it really resonates our values. And so I think us to reinvest, to me, health, it's knowing... ⁓ that putting a product out there for health, I need to know that it's going to work. Because for me, selling without knowing at the end of the day, it's irresponsible. Because people are believing in us. When they are really buying a product, they believe that this is going to work. And to me, that is a matter of responsibility. That's why I'm saying, you know, I need to be responsible with for my products. So that's why for me, Science is not a strategy, it's a duty. That's how we work every day, it's what we do. And when we are intervening in human biology, we have an obligation to really understand the mechanisms, the interactions, the limitations of what you're doing and you're offering. And as I say, the market rewards the storytelling, but patients and clinicians reward evidence, So I know this, you know, it's the speed, the margin, sometimes the attention that we need to give to the market in order to grow. So for the first 25 years, IFAS de Terra was obsessed and focused on science. is the moment where we really need to focus on growth and putting the products out there so everybody can have them and see them and know them.

Oskar Moore: I think I really find that amazing that that's where your focus lies because ⁓ sometimes, so for example, one of the products that like to sell is a bone broth collagen that's organic, that we've really geeked out about, that has all collagen, one, two, and three, and is clean. ⁓ And what me like crazy when I look at the market is that we are up against ⁓ gummy bear collagen products out there that are cheap, that taste synthetic, but amazing for the customer. And they think they're actually doing something good for themselves. So if we use that example and move it into medicinal mushrooms that are now everywhere in the market, it's on everyone's lips when they talk longevity. ⁓ where does the marketing narrative go wrong in the medicinal mushroom space?

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: So I think mushrooms are going to be all over, all over ⁓ the next 10 years. But I most marketing now talks about mushrooms as ⁓ generic ingredients, not as complex biological systems. And this is you really, I... That hurts me a little bit because I think it's magnificent that there's a trend. It's way easier for us that everybody's talking about mushrooms and that we're not alone, you know, that we're not the only ones talking about it like 20 years ago. But I think they the highest of our respect. ⁓ because as scientists, as marketing, as the market, as producing, as consumers, because if you think about it, and this is something I always say, the traditional Chinese medicine, that's where all of this knowledge really comes from, because they have kept it for so many thousands of years, ⁓ can see already evidence of youth. 4 000 years ago so 2000 years before christ 2000 years after christ they've been using mushrooms for 4000 years today you go to china pharmacy you want you walk in they have two flood two departments you go to the first one first level and in the first level which is the main level I would say maybe 60 to 70 percent it's cordyceps dedicated to cordyceps, reishi and ginseng, not being ginseng a mushroom obviously. But I saw this in China that we went there to understand the cultivation methods, the traditional Chinese medicine, we were there for a long time, I that there's something really big that mushrooms can do for us. Because when our society really works with an for 4,000 it's not something trendy. It's not something that is coming and we just say, ⁓ today, reishi, tomorrow, lion mane, tomorrow, cordyceps. Then we forget about that and we're gonna talk about butterflies or we're gonna talk of whatever next ingredient that comes, ⁓ this lung, know. I truly believe and I ask always, please, whenever we treat mushrooms, whenever you work with mushrooms, treat them with respect because they come to help us. They've been in the world for longer than we've been here and they have evolved and they have used strategies that help us to become stronger, more resilient, better. And really we need this. Big drugs come from mushrooms. Think about antibiotics. Think about even big molecules of oncology, taxol. It's an extract from a mushroom for our fungi. Immunosuppressants. So... there's a lot to come like from the deep sea the other comes will come from mushrooms so we really need to understand this on western society not to use it just as a trendy that now will be in gummies then will be you know in a drink and an energy drink there will be whatever and as we see that the dose is not correct the mushroom is not correct whatever ⁓ it doesn't work let's move to another thing because they are very powerful. And is the difference? the specificity, cultivation method, extraction process, dosage, bioavailability. ⁓ But because... All of these details, many times are ignored, are very difficult also to tell, you know, for us, to tell every final client say, well, this is the way we extract, because we keep on researching every day and things are not, you know, static forever. So we keep on doing new things. me, the most important now thing is show me your results. is are you working with this? Now show me what they can do. Show me the results. And that is exactly what we do. We base and we demonstrate everything that we do and what we say with scientific evidence.

Oskar Moore: Yeah, fantastic. And also you're talking a little bit about the there I want to get into about sourcing, cultivation, extraction and consistency, ultimately to quality. ⁓ you just some gummies or some energy drinks with some mushrooms in there ⁓ where these, they don't care about the quality. So they, ⁓ it's not that for them where for you guys, this is key, ⁓ but this is something that can that can be a risk for a company because its ⁓ and production is really complex, especially when you want to deliver the highest quality. So what are some of the biggest headaches that you've experienced over ⁓ this time in making these mushrooms whereby... ⁓ you've experienced complexities or where the business has been under pressure because you've had to both do all of the sourcing, the producing and then also selling it. It's a lot.

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: Well, I would say as you just mentioned, consistency. Because nature doesn't behave like a factory. So, you you have to ensure, batch to batch, the consistency in biological product. It's incredibly complex. it's, to me, it's non-negotiable, non-negotiable in health. So, It's important also to understand from a consumer perspective that when you're taking a natural product, it's also... reasonable, that that's not a chemical powder. So it's reasonable that it might change, sometimes in color, sometimes a little bit in flavor. So even if you're having the consistency on the molecules that are inside, that that is something that you can trace, but you're not going to control absolutely everything because it's natural, it's a natural product. So also to communicate this to the consumer and to understand because we're used to something that is always the same, ⁓ take chemicals, almost this chemical today wherever you are going to take. So we are used to that... ⁓ consistency of the chemical products, we think that ⁓ something is consistent, it has to have the same behavior, being natural, but it doesn't. So that one side, ⁓ and other one is the ⁓ frustration the regulatory issues, because there's a huge gap between ⁓ what legally allowed to be claimed and what's ethically responsible to imply. You can technically say very little, but emotionally suggest a lot. And if as always chooses to restraint, if it costs us commercially, because, you know, we ⁓ to back up everything with science and ⁓ ⁓ want to fall into that game, you know. And is, there's a lot of that out there. ⁓

Oskar Moore: So that's a quite a, mean, regulation is always going to be a problem when it comes to health because they're there to, I think I look at it a little bit to say regulation is good because it makes sure that these gummies and these poor quality products can't say everything. But regulation is poor because it doesn't allow for high quality scientifically backed products to say a bit more. So this is where I get really curious because we are now moving into a little bit that the claims and the marketing and how to sell this. And when you can't say that much and you decide to hold back, how do you market this on a big scale?

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: Well, that is very, very difficult because you are trying to do things really quietly rigorous, but the others aren't. ⁓ problem is that you're trying to in a way where clinicians notice, ⁓ researchers and ⁓ regulators as well. ⁓ And the ⁓ that credibility gets to the consumers, but it takes longer. And so problem is that you see yourself working hard for 25 years and suddenly ⁓ someone pops and says, ⁓ all of this. like you know that you know you can't say and they cannot say it's right now yeah it's it's a little bit of a wild world I would say and we we've been here for a long time and we want to stay for the long for very long time we try to do everything you know as ⁓ as as we can and And really, want to work with the clinician trust and with the patient trust, you know, knowing that when going to take an Ifas Acharo product, you're going to feel it. You're going to really feel better. To me, that is my mission. It's our promise. We will change your life. I have to say we're mentioning gummies. We've been working for the longest time. We've been working for a year and a half or two years now ⁓ to ⁓ the gummy world. And can do a gummy that is healthy, but it's tricky. It took us two years and we will launch some gummies. But... Obviously the way you work with that, it takes a lot of time to formulate, to really understand the ways it is expensive. So normally when you see the price of whatever you're going to take, we think that it doesn't cost that much, because didn't cost that much to produce it. I always we all work with the same scale of prices. So ⁓ the price getting is the cost that that has to be produced. So it works like a little bit. And ⁓ when we're talking health, one needs to understand where am I going to put my resources? Do I prefer to put this on a pint or in a dinner ⁓ in a bag ⁓ in a pair of shoes ⁓ ⁓ I going to take care of myself? And that's my priority. So there is where I put my on my first.

Oskar Moore: You talk about your customers as actually patients, that was the word you used, and talking about these practitioners that can kind of help the patient. So I get curious in the sales channel that you use predominantly. I mean, I know you have a B2C segment, but is B2B also a big part of that?

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: So what we do is we work with practitioners. So we train practitioners and we give them the knowledge, which is really hard work. mainly a lot of it goes through ⁓ practitioner-based prescription. then obviously people feel so well and so good that then they talk and because it's not needed it's not a drug that has to be prescribed it's a supplement. Well, then people buy it on a B2C channel. where are we? We are in pharmacies, we are in a retail, in every shop that has organic or supplements, and then also online marketing. We have our own website where people can find inspiration or information or can also ask for... things that are curious. yeah, I tend to, because when we are with practitioners, and then I have to say that it's also a bad translation, because in Spain we talk about patients, and I that England it's more about clients. we do work a lot with patients and clients. and patients become clients and clients sometimes become patients.

Oskar Moore: all go through the cycle of life. ⁓ ⁓ we move a little bit towards the end of this episode, there's a health professional right now out there that's really eager to launch ⁓ a product this longevity-focused space, what's the one thing that you would recommend them to be thinking of before they start?

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: Exactly. As a business you mean? To produce their product? ⁓ Well, the first thing I would say is would you take that product? Would you give your kids that product? If the answer is yes, because you know that it works, then more than welcome. It be a good product.

Oskar Moore: Yeah.

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: To me, how I developed my products, the syrups, were for my kids. My son was constantly with pneumonia, with problems, breathing problems. ⁓ would go to the hospital and they would put him IV with antibiotic and they would surely save his life ⁓ one again and again. And it got to a point where my father-in-law, he's a surgeon in the hospital with his colleagues, he would be desperate saying, can't you do something for my kid? He cannot be constantly coming in with an infection, breathing infection, pneumonia, and you're putting antibiotics. And they said, well, you know, it's the way it goes. mean, whenever you have an infected pneumonia, you need to go with antibiotics. We can't prevent. And at that point I said, okay, we have to do something for prevention for kids. So started working on the immune system. We started working with reishi, which is a beautiful mushroom and then other mushrooms. And developed the first worldwide... syrup for kids with medicinal mushrooms which has been used since then you know hundreds and thousands of mothers and fathers that have helped their kids to build a you know a strong immune system and for their ⁓ it's i many colleagues that that have other companies with other products and ⁓ and ⁓ you they have a problem or whatever i say ⁓ no no no i'm not taking this i'm taking and i like How can you do something? How can you produce something and not trust it to take it yourself or give it to your family? So me, every product Ifasatara has developed, it was ⁓ for in first place ⁓ and family. ⁓ And when I trusted the product, I saw the results, I tested it and I did all the evidence. Then I said, wow, this is strong enough to put it out there for the people and ⁓ to results. And that's exactly what I did. guess, ⁓ know, ⁓ I would say is when think about doing something for the world, take it first for yourself, for your family. When you see that works and you trust that, OK, then, you know, put it out there.

Oskar Moore: That's a very powerful message that I really like. That's a very good answer. You've got to be able to take it yourself and use it on your kids and so on. When you got that right, that will be the driver also moving forward and create that trust in the brand. good answer. Thank you. ⁓ So if we fast forward five to 10 years, and you've obviously been in this for over 25 years, but how do you see a mature medicinal mushroom market look like in the future?

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: I think going to be huge. Mushrooms are going to be all over. It's in single product you'll take on cookies, on ⁓ shampoos, coffees, on ⁓ milk ⁓ absolutely Desserts, know, is going to be with mushrooms. It's going to be more regulated and... you know, things that are being said today maybe they won't be able to be said unless demonstrated. ⁓ think therefore it's going to be trusted because the companies that will ⁓ You know, last I think there are many many companies that are going to pop up like mushrooms like we're seeing constantly and I think it's beautiful because we see a lot of creativity, but you know there's one thing that drives me mad and I've also seen this in California last year. So you are doing a... and I'm not naming anyone, okay? I'm not naming brands or anything, but... If you are in the world of mushrooms, me being a mycologist, any mycologist can understand, you will understand it's like you're doing an energy drink and suddenly they put the Amanita muscaria, which is the red mushroom with the white yes? The flocs. Amanita muscaria is a mushroom that has ⁓ effects. has So it's going to work either in your tummy and you're going to have horrible diarrhea, horrible pain depending on the or it's going to give you like a chirp. Now you're doing an energy drink where what you're putting in is lion's mane or reishi but what they put on the outside on the can it's the image of the Amanita Muscaria. When I see the things, it's like there's such a lack of knowledge. for anyone who knows a little bit about mushrooms and you see that Amanita, that you know the dwarfs mushroom, ⁓ and see that mushroom on a can on a packaging or whatever, I say I don't dare to take that because, you know, I don't know what it's going to do to me. It's not... what the ingredients don't match what I'm saying but this is just an image I don't know if it's something that it's been understood that it's of the lack of real knowledge that there still is of the world of mushrooms and even companies that are working on this so they're putting you know a mushroom inside or two mushrooms inside but they are trying to put outside on the design resemble other mushrooms that have nothing to do, that poisonous and that have terrible effects. I think we need to really delve much more into the science ⁓ of mushrooms really are, ⁓ who are, ⁓ what their names, and that is something that will come and change. So we will all have that knowledge. And to me, that's part of my mission to think that, ⁓ 5,000 years ago, there was a mummy that was found in the Alps called Otzi. This mummy a little bag because ⁓ was trying find ⁓ new places to and to gather, you know, food. and he was killed, so he was found in the 90s and he was carrying this pack where ⁓ was ⁓ silics ⁓ ⁓ also meat to eat, dried meat to eat, and three mushrooms. And I ⁓ think the same. We had a great knowledge because he... exactly knew how to use those three mushrooms. They were medicines to him and they were useful tools, one to make fire, the other one to really have a trip to be with his gods to guide him, the other one for he had Ascadies lumbricoides he had I the name in English. Well, they're ascaris where, you know, they're a heart in your stomach. And he was putting them as a tea. So he was using these mushrooms as a tea. And to have this incredible knowledge as a society and that we have lost it, then we have traditional medicine where, Chinese medicine, where they had all of their knowledge. And you know, then shaga in other countries. So now to me it's about getting all of this knowledge together, understanding how we can use mushrooms and giving back this knowledge to people. And so we empower people in society of growing stronger, being healthier having years of full life by, ⁓ know, ⁓ in power their life. since very early ages, we cannot think that we're going to have a super healthy age, you know, when we're 90, if we don't start working when we're 30. And we get drunk every weekend without having a remedy for that. know, it's like we need to be conscious, that we need to ⁓ a lot on ourselves, on our diet and our routine, because what really matters is what we do every single day. Not when we do one day when suddenly we go to a super spa and we relax. That's super nice as well. But what matches is what we do in our daily routine. And that is what will drive the outcome of how we're going to age.

Oskar Moore: So that leads us to the conclusion of this podcast, which is a natural one because you talk about preventative actions here. apart medicinal mushrooms, what's the one health habit that you personally never miss?

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: ⁓ non-negotiable is sleep. I try to sleep eight hours a day every single day. And if I don't one day, then because I party like everybody, but then the next day we, I have to sleep more. The two liters of water every day, that is non-negotiable ⁓ as well. And I would say...

Oskar Moore: You

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: to eat as healthy as you can, to see the real ingredients and cook. Don't just get things to put in your microwave. That is not eating. That is surviving. you're not really, you need to have nutrients. ⁓ really have to ⁓ to small markets, get fruit, get veggies, eat the rainbow. Eat ⁓ little like your grandparents would be. because we are really intoxicating ourselves we are doing it and that's why, you know, autoimmune diseases are on the rise, cancer is on the rise. Why? Because we are really ⁓ ourselves and as do it, we can undo it and this is really what must learn ⁓ and show people, people on how to change habits. Daily routines, daily habits.

Oskar Moore: Great. And finally, where can people find you in Hifas de Terra? And I put the extra emphasis on the two Rs there on the online

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: Well, I'm in Ifas Atera, and Instagram ⁓ you know, we have newsletters and all of that. ⁓ have my own Instagram where I try to make a little bit of reflections of life and, ⁓ know, whenever I travel or congresses and things that we see and do. And then professionals, we have the professional area on the Ifas Atera website where we try to... ⁓ to really train as much as we can, to give education as much as we can, because it's we've been doing for 25 years now. ⁓

Oskar Moore: Catalina, thank you very much for finding the time to be on the business of longevity.

Dr. Catalina Fernández De Ana: Thank you, thank you very much for giving me this space and opportunity.