Oskar: Social media is driving a huge surge in health interest, but in a noisy biohacking market packed with lots of different gadgets, supplements and bold claims, how do you, Tony, decide what actually deserves attention and what stays off your platform?

Tony: ⁓ I don't know that there's a particularly sophisticated mechanism. I have a look at something and I think, ⁓ I might post that or I might talk about that. And I think that the problem of social media is one that all of us are grappling with because it seems monthly, weekly, almost daily. It just gets more more intense, doesn't it? And the treadmill of creating content just never stops. ⁓ Finding an interesting and unusual way to present that content is always a challenge. Yeah.

Oskar: Tony Wrighton, welcome to the business of longevity. Great to have you here. You're a broadcaster, podcaster, long time biohacker and the nice beautiful voice behind biohacking news by Sestology, which has become a go-to destination for people looking to navigate the world of hacks, tests, tools to live a better life.

Tony: Thank you.

Oskar: So for someone who has never heard of the word biohacking, what is your simplest one line definition?

Tony: My definition is that it's using ways to improve health, mind and body, preferably natural, and when nature isn't available, using technology to mimic nature. That's my favorite. It's interesting that you've asked this question because at the time of recording, have you seen that the word biohack is in the shortlist for the Oxford University ⁓ Word of the Year? ⁓

Oskar: I'm sure our mate Dave Asprey's having a field day about that.

Tony: Exactly. Yeah, which shows how far biohacking has come. This is really interesting and we haven't we haven't found out the winner yet But but it is becoming more mainstream and when I started my podcast, it's pretty much the only biohacking podcast in the UK And then I changed the name after nine years from zest ology to biohacking news by zest ology to make it a bit more obvious to new people what we talked about because obviously in the intervening nine years, there was a lot more competition

Oskar: Absolutely. So we've come a little bit into your podcast, but you do like much more. sit like in this intersection between the science, self experimentation, media, book publications, podcasts, et cetera. But what's the part of your work that you spend most time on?

Tony: Well, as you say, was pretty much a full-time broadcaster for 15 years, ⁓ TV and radio presenter in the UK, on the biggest sports channel in the UK. ⁓ And I sort of did all of this stuff on the side. And then a few years ago, I decided to step away from that and do this full-time. My main gig, I guess, is writing. I've written nine books published in 13 languages. And increasingly now I'm helping other authors publish their books as well, which is really nice. I just sort of had this idea that I knew a lot of people like you and many others who are entrepreneurs or have a really interesting tale to tell in the space, but they just didn't quite know how to get the books out there and make them successful. So that's been a nice little add on. And for instance, today I've had two meetings with different authors, both loosely in the biohacking and wellness space, and it's just so rewarding.

Oskar: And that's also why it's fantastic to have an individual like yourself on here, which is a ⁓ person such a strong personal brand, which is a whole business in itself. And now you're kind of promoting that personal brand to help others. You're out there like trying to promote their work as well, which is key because this is a whole business that's perhaps ignored the personal branding business from.

Tony: Yeah.

Oskar: ⁓ a longevity aspect, at least people follow you and think you're awesome and all of these things, but they don't actually understand all the work that's being done behind the scenes and the science, but just as much of what kind of, ⁓ what kind of tactics do you use to be heard, to make sure that people are actually listening to you and reading all the great knowledge that you're coming out with, with your books. ⁓ so what really shaped this

Tony: Yeah. Mmm.

Oskar: philosophy of biohacking. mean, why did you start this podcast? Something must have sparked this interest.

Tony: Yeah, I I guess I think I was a biohacker before I was aware of the term, but when I was in TV, I've always been a Taipei personality and I was working really hard, playing really hard, never stopped for breath. And then I got very ill and I had a few months where I couldn't walk down the street. I was in bed pretty low and ⁓ yeah, just didn't really know where to turn next. ⁓ the hours of time that I was spending consulting Dr. Google, which by the way didn't really help because my nervous system was jacked into fight or flight the whole time, ⁓ eventually discovered this concept of biohacking. So that is really how I got into it. then I started to go into some of the events. At that point, there weren't any events in the UK, so I had to travel over to America. And ⁓ think you were at some of those events as well, weren't you? Yeah.

Oskar: ⁓ yeah, I'm at many events mate.

Tony: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we've met at ⁓ many of these events over the years. And that was sort of how it got into it. yeah, instantly it resonated and made sense. And I think it also felt young and fresh and fun. It surprised me that you'd go to the event and it was more like a festival than a sort of summit or a conference. And that was very different from my background, which is NLP, learning about neuro-linguistic programming, where there's much, much stuffier sort of events that we might have held.

Oskar: Yeah, so let's just stick a little bit to this because one thing that I've seen in this space that's changing so dramatically is the amount of events that are out there. I mean, I could literally be at an event every single weekend of the year, right? And I have to pick which ones do I go to because I have to look after myself as well. So try and put into your words why it's becoming so important for these events.

Tony: Mmm.

Oskar: to just show up everywhere. Why are they showing up? mean, like, why is it still not those top 10 that are the ones everyone goes to, but everyone wants to be hosting the newest, the best biohacking longevity event out there? And again, no one thinks of the cost behind these events and are they profitable? Who's making money? Who's losing money in all of these things?

Tony: Yeah, well exactly. I talk about the business of biohacking and longevity. There's a reason for holding the events. I doubt the recent event in Saudi Arabia made a huge amount of money, but maybe that wasn't the primary goal. ⁓ But yeah, mean, to be honest, it's the world catching up, isn't it? Really? You know, we've known for years that this world is great fun ⁓ and also a place where you can sort of like develop some quite interesting. odd interests and hang out with fun people and express, also have fun in a way that doesn't involve going to the pub and sinking 12 points, which was my idea of fun 15 years ago, but it isn't now.

Oskar: Yeah, well, it's true. mean, it's also changed. So it's becoming more of a show. So it's more attractive for people. it's an awesome thing. It's a cool thing to be doing is going to these health shows. But I mean, I think back to some of the first events that I went to ⁓ as a child, because parents brought me along ⁓ and ⁓ it was very much in the States, the functional medicine.

Tony: Mm. Mm. ⁓ great. Yeah.

Oskar: Events the the I for ⁓ the a for ⁓ these kind of functional medicine and it was so science Based it wasn't that attractive for anyone but the practitioners who are getting like really detailed science on tests, etc Now you can go to events and it doesn't necessarily have to be so scientific but it can be really great Storytellers like yourself really good people that take

Tony: Mmm. Mmm.

Oskar: the science and make it a bit easier to understand. And it kind of hits a completely different segment today. And that's kind of where it leads into your healthy AF method. Am I saying that correctly? Because I kind of want to say what it means, but I won't just go for the sake of the listeners, but this is like a program and a coaching course that you provide as well. And I'm really curious because

Tony: Hmm. Yeah, yeah, you are really, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Oskar: I know the value that you come with because everything you've done in the past, but I'm curious as in how easy is it for you to get people to sign up at 970 pounds for one of these things? I mean, that's a pretty big investment.

Tony: Yeah, well you've done your research. I'm very impressed at that. for, thanks for spending so much time looking into it. Look, I came up with that program because I trained in NLP, neuro-linguistic programming over 20 years ago. And then I immediately started to use those skills and bring out books and they were this, it surprised me how successful they were. And I've written probably the world's

Oskar: Yeah.

Tony: ⁓ third best-selling book on NLP now, not the first or second but the third. And so I am sort of an authority in the space, but then I started to realize with my own health challenges that the missing ingredient was my mental approach to my physical health. And that was what I had all wrong, obsessing over symptoms, thinking about it 24 hours a day, not allowing my mind to switch off. And of course, it's quite obvious when you think about it, but when you're... Constantly jacking up your cortisol and you're worrying about your health you are you literally cannot physically recover And so that was what inspired me to use those skills of NLP that I'd learned all those years ago but focus on a healthy physical body so it's been really nice and then along Along the way I've sort of picked up some interesting complementary methods like for example and it various energy psychology methods that complement NLP really nice including EFT emotional freedom therapy, which I also trained in and that is just unbelievable. Some people know it's tapping. I was super skeptical when I started and that was probably the thing that helped me get over that health crisis that I talked about more than anything. I went and saw one of the best EFT is and NLP is in the world. He started tapping on my face and body and I was like, what the hell is this? And 10 minutes later I'm in floods of tears. I don't know. I'm going to be okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Oskar: ⁓ amazing, amazing. So I just want to go a little bit back to the price tag just to provoke you a little bit, because in my opinion, it is nothing like investing in your health, right? And I think that's, but, often people that aren't, haven't committed fully, they look at this kind of price tag and they're worried about it. But I want to shout out here and say, people that are ill, they need people to support, support them. You can't, as you saying,

Tony: Yeah. Mm, mm.

Oskar: with your Google and searching around and chat GPT today, which getting really good. It's not enough. need support around you. And for example, with us, where we in, in Nordic laboratories, sell lab tests to all over the world, over a hundred countries, but we demand a practitioner's involved. We demand someone who's been through it several times and experienced in whatever they do. are involved in the process so that the end consumer, let's call them a consumer. They're often the patient, someone who's suffering one way or another gets the right support. And therefore I would just want to shout out and say this price tag, although it sounds a lot, the impact that it can have by having an accountability partner who understands what they're going through and has all that knowledge is totally worth it.

Tony: Mmm. Yeah, thank you. I agree. And also I'm in the nice position that over the years I've had some successes and I believe that's what it's worth. And so that's what I charge. And if people don't want to pay it, that's absolutely fine. But also I think, you know, I've made the mistake in the past of undercharging for my work and it just doesn't quite work because then you're spreading yourself too thinly. And with the work I'm doing with authors now, You know, that's been really interesting because people just want a little bit of help. They don't just want to watch a course and they don't just want to watch a program. They want to speak to me every week and they want to say, do I use Helvetica font or Aerial font or that, you know, that sort of thing. So, so you can't charge, know, if you're, if you're going to help people a bit, you can't charge, ⁓ a small amount for that program, but it's, think one of the big problems with biohacking is that there's this perception.

Oskar: Yeah.

Tony: because I've been talking on my podcast this week about biohackers of the year. And in the Oxford English Dictionary, they actually say often associated with rich people. And when I saw that, I sort of winced a bit because actually you and I both know that, you know, most of the best biohacks that we all talk about is the free stuff. Just before we had this chat on this podcast, I've just been out on the beach, I've been grounding, I've been in the sunshine, I've been getting some good lights and doing some, you know, nice deep breaths and that sort of thing. So.

Oskar: You Exactly.

Tony: It is an uncomfortable truth that if you're to make a living in this world, you have to charge prices that for some people are going to be out of range. But hopefully we can always provide accessible options for people if they can't afford that.

Oskar: Absolutely. I mean, I think it's such an ambivalent situation sometimes having to sit in the health. I don't even like the word health care, but but the preventative health position that we're looking at or lengthening health span or we can do so many definitions. But sometimes I watch people who simply can't afford the. relatively ⁓ cheap hacks, let's say that, which is something like understanding how your body functions. And sometimes I can struggle a little bit with that to say that we're trying to make money on people's, sometimes misery, is painful, but knowing that if they actually invest, the outcome could be really, really good for them. But that's also where I and we as a company sometimes have to look a little bit. further and say, here are some people who really need the help and we really think we can help them. And, and there's always an option to find solutions to, help them out from a financial point of view. So moving on a little bit, think brands in this space is really exciting. And I think you come across a lot of brands and you promote a lot of brands as well. And we check out your, your, your website as well, which is Tony writes in.com. Is that correct?

Tony: Yeah.

Oskar: just to shout that out, there's lots of cool gadgets and brands on there. And I'm kind of curious because I also experienced so many brands where I'm going, ⁓ these guys just have a big marketing spend, but do they actually have the science behind it? So I'm happy to shout out lots of brands here. So I'm curious, are there any brands out there right now where you're going, these guys genuinely have it right, both on product and marketing?

Tony: Mm. Hmm It's it's a another uncomfortable truth that it's often the brands and the individuals who are best at marketing They get their message out best rather than the ones who have the best product and certainly it's the case with books and health and wellness books It's not necessarily the best books are the ones that get the read the most I really like Kinian. I think that's a great brand ⁓ Red lights, but red light lasers, and I think they get their marketing, right?

Oskar: Hmm. Thank

Tony: I think Young Goose is a fantastic, and the owners of Young Goose, it's not the first time they've built a health brand and they're sort of, you what you might call serial entrepreneurs. ⁓ And they just know how to do it properly. Their products are very expensive, beautifully branded and excellent. So I think those are two that stand out. ⁓ Yeah, what about you?

Oskar: well, I'm honestly, ⁓ think what we're experiencing right now is exactly as you say, the good marketing companies out there that are doing really quality marketing, IM8, ⁓ these kind of supplement brands. I must say I'm so skeptical because I think it's just the marketing machine trying to make money on the current ⁓ there is right now. So. I'm even though it's a competitor, I like organized. ⁓ I think they're doing an awesome job in their marketing and also hopefully bringing out good enough products. It's very difficult because I don't get to see the, the, the machinery, ⁓ and they actually function. ⁓ and, that's also why I'm, I'm so keen on being able to get marketing right because it's how you come across with a quality quality product.

Tony: Yeah.

Oskar: that is going to create long-term success. And I don't like these big VC backed companies that are coming in with big capital and being able to put in some big influences in there to promote their products because I struggle when it's not organic because I go, is this really what it's supposed to do? I mean, is it true what you're saying? So I'm struggling to point out those brands where I go, I mean, they're going to be small so people won't know them. And that's sometimes the issue is that how do we bring these smaller companies where it has such an impact who the founders are and bring that out to a larger scale because it's their values, it's their science back brains that are bringing this product to market. And I want to really combine the good marketeers with the good scientists. And that's my big dream.

Tony: I think that, yeah. know, it's one of the things I wonder about with the business of longevity is is becoming harder and harder and harder to make a buck. And, you know, when I first started writing books on wellness, loosely based on wellness, the topics were so broad, confidence, motivation, inspiration, I just brought them out and people bought them. Couldn't do that, couldn't do that now. There's way too much competition.

Oskar: Yeah, absolutely.

Tony: But I have this sort of funny feeling. We have a founders group here in Portugal where I live and we went out last night and we're all doing similar but slightly different things in health, wellness, personal development space. And everyone sort of reports back the same thing, which is that they're living in a low level, slight state of overwhelm and they've just got a million different things. And I think there are so many opportunities in our space, but competition is so high that I think it is increasingly really hard to just... do a normal amount of work in a day and then switch off. And I worry that we're getting more more burnt out and doing the exact opposite of what we're supposed to do in this space.

Oskar: Yeah, okay, I mean, when you say that I'm thinking of myself, I mean, I don't stop because I'm kind of on a mission and it's like I'm prepared to, don't actually compromise my own health. do on my hyperbarics, I do my saunas, I do all these things, but my mind is running constantly on how do we have as positive an impact on people as possible, but I totally concur on that. So we're about to wrap up here. ⁓ want to hear a little bit what your... Well, actually, just before we do that, ⁓ want to say a niche that you're in ⁓ the histamine. I I love that the chat about it. People think it's just an allergy kind of thing, but ⁓ depth that you actually go into to understand where histamine lies in something like leftovers and these kind of things, you've really got a niche ⁓ I hope you stick to and that gets broadened out big time. ⁓

Tony: Mm-hmm. Yeah, thanks. yeah. Obviously, by the time I discovered I had histamine intolerance, I'd been suffering with it for 25 years. And it's so complicated as an issue. ⁓ And then eventually I thought, well, I'm a journalist. I've written books about other things. I don't have to be a practitioner to write a book about something. I could just do a deep dive on it. And so, yeah, I wrote books on histamine intolerance. And then they ended up just like, there's an incredible demand for information about histamine intolerance. And...

Oskar: I'm sure. sure.

Tony: You mentioned storytellers earlier. Most of the content out there is not particularly interesting or accessible. So I always like to educate as well as entertain. That's my motto. I tried to do that with those books and they did really well. Yeah.

Oskar: Excellent. So we're going to close off with some quick questions here and what's your one recommendation for someone wanting to go into business in this biohacking space?

Tony: ⁓ Well, I would say I for years and years and years was paid for my time and obviously I had a great job, a little bit glamorous in some ways in TV. But had I left when I wanted to leave just because I love this whole other space and I love being in control and building things and being creative, that wouldn't have been the right time to do it. So keep some money coming in and do it two or three days a week and see if it works.

Oskar: Good point. Good point. Don't actually, it's not often you hear someone say, don't go all in. That's a, that's Tony's point. Very good. So the one health habit that you never miss, what's the most important one for you?

Tony: Yeah, don't go all in. Yeah. ⁓ What is the one health habit I never miss? ⁓ If I don't exercise enough on a particular day, I just don't feel right. Everything else flows from that. So I meditate most of the time, but I sometimes forget. But if I just haven't done enough exercise, if I haven't moved out enough, I haven't been to the gym or whatever, I just do not feel right. It has such a profound effect on my mental state. So have to get the steps in, have to move about. Just bought a walking pad under my desk. So I should have done this interview walking. That would have been great. Yeah.

Oskar: That would have been more than that would have been awesome. But you're mentioning something again, which can be free exercise can be very expensive if you choose to, but otherwise it's free to go for a walk, a run, do some pushups, move your body. ⁓ that's all free. So finally, as we wrapping up here, ⁓ people that have listened to this, where can they find you and your work?

Tony: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, my website is TonyWrighton.com. I'm Tony Wrighton on Instagram, Facebook and everywhere else. And just to say, love what you're doing with the podcast and it's been really fun to chat.

Oskar: It's been really fun, really enjoyed it and I can't wait for a year's time when we'll be digging into something new. Cheers mate, all the best.

Tony: Great, yeah, yeah. Thank you, Oscar.