In-person participant 1: hello and welcome back to the charity shop chat with myself Mimi Cartwright

Amelia Cartwright: with me Charlotte Greenwood. And as always, this podcast is powered by the charity retail consultancy. And we support charities with expert retail guidance, training and strategic insight to help maximise both income and impact. And don't forget to sign up to the charity retail learning subscription as well in conjunction with the CRA to get access to almost 50 training modules designed specifically for our sector.

In-person participant 1: Charity isn't just about secondhand treasures. ⁓ It's about creating opportunity. reduce waste, offer accessible shopping. ⁓ provide volunteers and employment pathways and fund life-changing services. are living, breathing examples of purpose-driven social value in action.

Amelia Cartwright: shops reduce waste, offer accessible shopping, provide volunteers, unemployment pathways, and fund life-changing services. They living, breathing examples ⁓ of social value in action. ⁓ And today's episode, we're joined by someone who brings a wealth of real-world experience to our sector. ⁓ She someone who brings a steady, thoughtful energy to every space she walks into. ⁓ She's natural problem solver, but not the loud, look-at-me kind. ⁓ She listens first, asks thoughtful questions and helps people to get to the heart of things without over-complicating them.

In-person participant 1: She is also someone who genuinely cares about how people experience the spaces they work in. Her advocacy for inclusion isn't just a slogan ⁓ It's a of everyday choices. ⁓ She pays to who gets heard, who gets overlooked and how to sure everyone feels like they belong.

Amelia Cartwright: What makes her especially refreshing is that she brings all of this, without ever making it about herself. She simply shows up, does the and helps others thrive in the process. ⁓ So whether you're grabbing a coffee, donations in the stockroom or driving between those shop visits, ⁓ turn up the volume and get for a conversation full of insight, heart and leadership wisdom.

In-person participant 1: you. So let's give a very warm Charity Shop chat welcome to Director of Community and Retail for Shaw Trust, it's Renata Griever.

Amelia Cartwright: a very warm charity shot.

In-person participant 1: Hello. ⁓

Amelia Cartwright: Thank you. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me. ⁓ let's start with then kind of your origin story. We love a good origin story on the charity shop chat. So how you start in charity, retail and social enterprise? ⁓ I have worked for Shaw Trust for around 12 years ⁓ and few years ago they asked me to do a review of some of the areas of the business which included the charity retail shops. ⁓ I saw so much potential in them, ⁓ but also lots of opportunity ⁓ and was asked after my review to see through those recommendations and to stay with the charity retailers to support them in their growth and their learning and their progression. So what was it you doing beforehand then? I worked mainly the employability contracts within Shaw Trust. ⁓ So supporting some of the most vulnerable ⁓ people in society and our communities into good work. I had various opportunities for progression within Shaw Trust. ⁓ I did short stint as Chief of Staff supporting our CEO office ⁓ and then into the charity retail space. Amazing. Remind everyone who's listening how many shops to Shaw Trust have? So we've got 32 shops and we've got one warehouse and they are nationally, they're up and down the country And in November 2024, we also acquired nine shops from Trussell Trust. So they joined us, bringing us to our 32 and one warehouse. A lot of your plate on your plate then.

In-person participant 1: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We do have those shops. And how was the transition into retail?

Amelia Cartwright: think my transition into retail was a really exciting one, but there was lots and lots to learn and I very quickly realised that the ⁓ shop managers on the ground and within the shops were actually the subject matter experts. So I took a lot of time going out, seeing the sites, observing and speaking to our people to understand what was working well, where they required support and how I could bring that support to them. ⁓ Many moons ago, I did work in and for McDonald's. So I did have the insights into kind of reward and recognition and what really drives a team ⁓ in those shop settings forward to absolutely give of their best. So that supported somewhat. ⁓ And I like to think that I'm people-centred in all of the roles that I've committed to in my career. So trying to bring that people-centred focus to the role that I'm in now. That's so good. That is really good because actually I think think it's great you recognize very quickly on that it was your shop staff that were the expert experts in their roles and charity retail because I think when I first started my journey in charity retail, ⁓ my induction was very much about ⁓ meeting board members trustees ⁓ and other areas of the hospice and actually it took me a while to get into the actual shops meant that I didn't get straight into the detail of what was going on within charity retail. So I think excellent that you noticed that straight away.

In-person participant 1: Yeah, I agree. And as someone who is or has very recently been shop staff and is slowly making that transition, ⁓ feel like we can just end the podcast there. ⁓ is, ⁓ If there's one thing you could take away already is that that is so to ⁓ point so early on and something that I think so many ⁓ leaders should as their first priority, listen to those people on the ground because they,

Amelia Cartwright: Just meet your shop staff. So. so many ⁓ listen to those people on the ground because they, as you put so well, have so much knowledge which

In-person participant 1: as you ⁓ put well, have so much knowledge which can't grasp anywhere else really.

Amelia Cartwright: Absolutely, absolutely. And I think now we've got a great structure in place in terms of kind of who reports to who as you do in any organisation. But something that I have continued to do is something called skip level meetings. So what they do is they, as they say on the tin, they skip A level. So it means when I have those meetings, I still have the opportunity to speak directly to those shop colleagues or volunteers. to find out how they're feeling, how it's going, and to engage and really be able to observe if we're missing anything or if we need to do anything further. Because I think the more senior you become, it can get to a point where you become a little bit disjointed from what's happening on the ground. And that's something that I never want to lose in the position that I'm in. Yeah, that's such a good idea, isn't it? Especially when you're multi-site, you've got like 30 to 33. different sites it's important to have that kind of ear to the ground and still speak to those who are doing it on the on the ground. So that's a great idea.

In-person participant 1: on kind of still in the same vein as having that people-centred approach, what motivates you most about leading in the sector?

Amelia Cartwright: moving on, still in the same vein as having that people-centred approach, what motivates you most about leading in the sector and being a leader? That's a really good question. think what motivates me and has done throughout my career is supporting people, so having a real purpose in terms of what I do and sure trust. ⁓ has a purpose of supporting as many people as possible into good work. However, Shaw Trust is a really ⁓ big organization. It's the 16th largest national charity in the UK. And we're also very, very diverse. ⁓ So I think what motivates me is ⁓ ⁓ of what we do within Shaw Trust. But if I bring it specifically to charity retail, ⁓ I think it is ⁓ the impact of our shops in the communities where they sit, the localism ⁓ and the ability for us to support not only our paid colleagues in the work that they do, also the volunteers and the wider impact on the ⁓ local community and also the links to sustainability, environmental factors and social value which also link him. ⁓ that is definitely going to motivate you isn't it? ⁓ the biggest thing about what we do is that we're not just making boards rich are we? ⁓ money is going towards something that is very very important and cause worthy.

In-person participant 1: Absolutely.

Amelia Cartwright: so looking at the state of Charity Retail today, I mean I say the state, sounds like I'm going, oh my god, what a state we're in. It's really not. More like the future then. What do you think Charity Retail looks like in 2026? think the honest answer to that is that there are challenges for charity retail and I think it's about how we overcome those challenges but also stay alive to the opportunities that are still available. So I think we're all that there are online ⁓ retailers available. You've got platforms as Vinted, Depop, where people ⁓ naturally try and sell their ⁓ goods rather than maybe take into a charity shop these days. And that's something we're really up against in terms of quality of donations that come into our shops now and also quantity in some areas as well. However, I think the localism that we have in the areas where we have our shops driving that community engagement ⁓ helps when we can explain to our customer base ⁓ it is we need and why we still really would like them to donate to us. ⁓ that seems to be working across our estate in Shaw trust and also our partnership work with schools. So. ⁓ the UK now, ⁓ are a lot of challenges with the youth of today in terms of ⁓ they're going to do when they leave school, are there the right opportunities for them, and if there aren't, how can they continue to upskill and gain experience ⁓ move on with their life and their careers. And one of the ways that they can do that is through volunteering within our shops, and we have ⁓ a real effort within ⁓ charity retail shops. around diversity and inclusion, ensuring that young people are absolutely thought of through the volunteering process, championing for them and also linking in with true partnership work with local schools, head teachers across the piece to drive that. And we've increased our young volunteers by 19 % in 2025, which was fantastic. That's great. Yeah. And we continue to do that to support them. And obviously if paid roles become available, then of course they have the opportunity to also apply for those as well. Yeah, that's a really good point because before we started doing this podcast, I didn't realise that there was such a lack of job opportunities for those leaving college and universities. And wasn't until Mimi was speaking about it on the podcast that I didn't think it was such a big issue because back in my day... a long time ago now. We won't say how long ago that was but yeah we kind of all just kind of came out of university went straight into jobs went straight into paid work whether or not it was what we wanted to do we all got a job but it's not quite like that now so volunteering becomes a much more much more bigger thing doesn't it.

In-person participant 1: Absolutely. think a lot of young people I know who haven't been able to get work or have been on the job hunt for months and months have that volunteering is ⁓ a great thing ⁓ network, meet new people because of Covid, that's so hard for us. ⁓ So it's fantastic for that, obviously, to put on your CV as well ⁓ just to get out there into the world of ⁓ or ⁓ into the world. More importantly, which I think it's really exciting that this the way that this podcast is going is getting into the community. I absolutely love how community centred your approach is and the benefits that young people get as well as, Shaw Just gets because of that. It's just a fantastic kind of circular structure. I know. by seeing you empowering young people, I would be a hundred times more motivated to come and donate. Because I, and that's obviously a bias thing, ⁓ but it's an incredible marketing move because my generation are gonna be the future one day, hopefully, when we're all employed. ⁓ And so yeah, it's more important than ever for charity retail to... reach out to the young people and express how important we are for them because we are that next generation. So absolutely love that approach.

Amelia Cartwright: So, absolutely a lot of reach. Absolutely, and I think the drive for the youth of today to join us on the journey is really, really important. When I went into charity retail with Shaw Trust it was quite clear to me from attending even, you know, Charity Retail Association conference and other events that the demographic at times can be older. And that's fine, people come with experience and wisdom. However, injecting that youth in is really, important. And I think that's on all levels. So yes, to support youth, but also to support those that are ⁓ not in that bracket. So with digital inclusion, ⁓ with ⁓ creativity, and just with a very, different perspective that young people bring.

In-person participant 1: Absolutely, that's fantastic.

Amelia Cartwright: And it's changing that misconception about the youth as well, isn't it? Because if you've still got that misconception of youth being out on the street and causing havoc and causing trouble, when actually they're volunteering in your charity shops for free in their own time to give back to a worthwhile cause, it's changing that misconception of what the youth of today is. So, I you've mentioned the pressures about kind of the quality and quantity of donations that shops are facing, but where do you see the opportunities then in charity retail? I think the opportunities in charity retail for me lie in true community engagement, localism in the areas that the shops are in, to build a real network of people that can support the shops. ⁓ and also to educate people and therefore I think that you can then ⁓ really influence people to continue bringing in donations. Now they might not bring all of their quality donations, they might bring some of their quality donations but some is still better than none or people not understanding the cyclical nature of what we do and also the purpose behind it. As in when we sell items, know, this is where your money's going to truly support some of the most vulnerable in society into good work. And I think that's something that you don't get when you sell your own items on Vinted, et cetera. ⁓ you get money, but you don't get that purpose behind it as well. ⁓ from your point of view, know, are your 32 shops, where are they based and how does a national charity do that localism then? Tell us more about that. Yeah, so I think that we are a big national charity, but we are a smaller estate of charity retail shops with our 32 in our warehouse. However, we are regionally based up and down the country. So we've got Glasgow to Wales down to Lindhurst. ⁓ and ⁓ Eastleigh. So we've got shops far and wide. We've got a cluster in Oxford. think those shops, although they are far wide, they all sit within their own localism and and I think it's supporting them within the areas that they are in. ⁓ I think one size doesn't fit all, so it's understanding the demographic within the areas that those shops fit. and also really listening to those colleagues who are working day to day in those areas. I think the community engagement and partnership work is important now ⁓ terms of people understanding what Shaw Trust does, ⁓ our shops serve those communities and how people can get involved to help, whether it is through donations, whether is through volunteering ⁓ or it is through just championing the cause Shaw Trust more generally.

In-person participant 1: Amazing and just before we move on, don't think we've covered yet what, do you want to explain what Shaw Trust does?

Amelia Cartwright: Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ So, ⁓ Trust is a very diverse charity. It does lots of different things and it's one of the UK's largest employment charities. We do a lot of work, but our main goal is to support people to find and keep meaningful jobs ⁓ and enter into good work. ⁓ Unemployment is a growing problem in Britain, particularly among young people, and there's a lot of evidence that not being in work is bad for our health. Unemployed people have the worst health of all groups, other than disabled people or people with long term illness. So Shaw Trust really helps lots of people find and stay in good work. We help young people, care leavers, people with disabilities, people with health conditions and ex-offenders, just to list a ⁓ The work we do changes people's lives and gives people hope. Finding a good job that we enjoy doesn't just improve our finances, it gives us a sense. of purpose. our purpose really is to help people find theirs. that is great. And actually going back to your point about, you know, younger people relating to a cause, ⁓ think I read a statistic somewhere, this just this morning. ⁓ And it was that 56 % of under 45 year olds, and I love that that's considered young as well, by the way. So yeah, you heard it here first, I'm still young. They say that donating and buying clothes from charity shops is the most appealing way to support charities. So that, you know, that is something that this sector needs to make sure that their parent charities are really aware of because retail is often treated as the poorer cousin to fundraising. When actually, if you want to reach those, you know, Gen Z's, charity shops are definitely the way to go in that. then creates longevity in terms of a supporter for your charity.

In-person participant 1: Absolutely. ⁓ in that kind of vein then, how do you ⁓ balance generation mission kind of community impact?

Amelia Cartwright: Yeah, it's a great question. I think that we always want to be striving for our purpose, for our mission. However, the reality, and with a kind of more commercial hat on, ⁓ you need to be income generating and generating a surplus ⁓ to really be able to give back to... impact in the way that you wish to. So within Shaw Trust, we have something called our foundation. They utilize any surplus that is generated from our shops and that goes back into which are set up ⁓ support, as I said, some of the most disadvantaged and vulnerable people within communities. ⁓ Therefore, really, important that we approach charity retail. as a business and we understand the importance of needing to generate income and that being the priority for our shops and then the other good stuff is really really important, but it is secondary in terms of social value, terms of sustainability, in terms of environmental impact actually if you have a model ⁓ is loss making ⁓ then you are never going to be able to truly give to the cause that you want to and demonstrate that impact at the end. So that's my balanced view. so right. It is a bonus, isn't it? We talk a lot about ⁓ and things like that. And it's very important, obviously, being part of the circular economy. ⁓ our number one priority is to make money for our parent charities.

In-person participant 1: Absolutely and the good thing about charity retail is whether you like it or not all encompassing. although that might not be the number one priority, ⁓ certain shoppers will see that as extremely valuable when they come into your shop. ⁓ So we have the luxury of being able to promote social values and sustainability without even trying really because we are there on the high street loud and proud. This is what we're promoting ⁓ as like first or second priority. I kind of love this industry.

Amelia Cartwright: Warm glow. Okay, so are there any recent initiatives or changes you've led that make a big difference that you've seen? So yeah, in terms of new initiatives, last year we began a pilot for the first time of Shaw Trust Retail having its own online platform through eBay. We are very much in the pilot stage and growing it very slowly. But I think that that has really opened our eyes to the... ability for us to utilize donations in a different way, showcase them in a different way and also open up our offering to a very different audience than those who come into the shops physically. So that's all going really, really well, really positive and more to come from that in the future. Yeah, e-commerce is getting bigger and bigger, isn't it? But I think with charity retail, it's scalability. How do you grow that? without eating into your profit margins because there are additional costs in terms of storage, staffing, you know, because volunteering, if you're trying to find volunteers, you know how to take good photographs and use a laptop and upload onto eBay, et cetera. That can be a little bit harder, can't it? So again, it goes back to our conversation about kind of encouraging more younger people to get into volunteering who do have those skills naturally because of the generation that they were born in. But yeah, e-commerce is going to be massive. Yeah, absolutely. And I think we talk about growth and scale quite a lot within charity retail actually, in terms of numbers of shops or e-commerce and growing it. For me, think that they're well, it depends on your organization, but I think there is a real balance because you're right, e-commerce can become a real beast. But if it gets to that stage, you then need a warehouse, you then need a paid. colleague team to support and as you say volunteers with the expertise to truly support what you're trying to achieve and I think similarly ⁓ with ⁓ physical shops again you you can grow your estate or your number of shops but again then you need the right structure to truly support those shops on the ground and I think we've seen ⁓ some of the charity retailers recently they're closing some of their shops or they're scaling down their e-commerce and I think that proves the point that sometimes when it gets too big it can become unmanageable or the costs don't stack up. Yeah, absolutely and that's the thing, the biggest advice that I always give to any of our charities when we're supporting them as the consultancy is for e-commerce look at your cost per unit analysis because if you don't know that, if you don't know how much you are spending, what you've paid for, listing fees, postage and packaging. ⁓ all of that bubble wrap and cardboard, et cetera. If you don't know how much you're spending on that, you don't know what you're supposed to be taking just to break even, let alone make a profit. So that's one of the things when we offer our e-commerce reviews is absolutely do a cost per unit analysis. Because if you suddenly realize it's 15 pounds per item listed, you can't even guarantee that you're going to sell that for a start. that's the risk. And then you've got to price it correctly to be able to get the traffic in, but then get that auction bid. up so it's a real, yeah, I understand why charity retailers are a little bit more risk averse when it comes to e-commerce because you have got to do it properly so if you are thinking about setting that up that's the biggest advice that I would give to anyone as well as come and work with us and we can help you out as well obviously. ⁓

In-person participant 1: Yeah, absolutely. If you'd like to talk more e-commerce ⁓ the retail consultancy have ⁓ plenty of learning platforms as well as who ⁓ are very attuned and want to offer support. So ⁓ reach out. ⁓ yeah, on then, ⁓ as senior sponsor for the Race Equality Network, what does your role involve and why is it ⁓ personally to you?

Amelia Cartwright: mean, first of all, it's amazing that you do this as well as your actual day-to-day job as well. And you're a working mum. And that's the thing was a lot of our podcast guests, they're just women that do it all. Like it is the fact that you do voluntary work as well as paid work. And then you go home and you do the dinner and you do the bedtime and bath time and my God. ⁓ So first of all, well done. ⁓ Thank so much. Thank you so much. So within Trust, we've got... ⁓

In-person participant 1: ⁓ absolutely. Yeah.

Amelia Cartwright: lots of network groups to support our colleagues across the whole of the organisation and yeah, one of them is the Race Equality Network. So we've got a wonderful chair of the network called Jusbinder Boot and she runs various sessions within quarters to support ⁓ members of the Race Equality Network and the organisation and of course anyone is welcome to those sessions from ⁓ within Shaw Trust and our internal colleague groups. So in terms of my role, ⁓ I am just there to support. I'm there to support Jusbinder ⁓ and also to add my own lived experience and views within those sessions ⁓ and to hopefully ⁓ support others, ⁓ bring balance sometimes to the room and just bring varying perspectives. ⁓ I think for the senior sponsor role, It's important to show that ⁓ seniors within the organisation have also got lived experience, have also been through things, have also found things challenging, hard, ⁓ face barriers in life and whether that is linked to race or anything else because there can be lot of intersectionality within that. I think it's important to have that visibility and Shaw Trust does that very well with senior sponsors of the various network groups. For me it's an absolute privilege to fulfil that role and it's something that I look forward to all of the meetings, the sessions ⁓ and where I can to impart a little bit of knowledge. Absolutely and if anyone doesn't know kind of that term intersectionality, if you've never heard it before, it's really about if you've got more than one characteristics that will, funnily enough, intersect with each other. That might give you some more disadvantages than other people. So for example, if you are a male and you're a person of colour, then you've got a disadvantage because of being a person of colour. But if you are female and also person of colour, then that's kind of two. And then again, if you ⁓ link that to someone who is and a person of colour ⁓ and potentially LGBT, again, ⁓ those are all to be factors that ⁓ kind of join together to make their lived experiences very different from someone else. ⁓ But yeah, absolutely. It's great that you have that network within the organisation because a lot of organisations don't even have that. Was that already set up or is that something recent? something that Shaw Trust have ⁓ set up over the years. So when I first started in Shaw Trust over years ago now, time flies when you're having fun, ⁓ the groups weren't set up, but we've got a great DNI team now ⁓ who ⁓ spent lot of time ⁓ setting the network, supporting ⁓ chairs ⁓ role and that they've built on those networks as we've forward. So yeah, really, really. great and I know lots of people attend the different networks but as I say people are welcome to attend, be allies and really really support where they can.

In-person participant 1: That's fantastic. And we've spoken about the networks and how fantastic they really are. How do you think then charity retailers can create environments where staff, volunteers and customers from all backgrounds feel represented and included in the retail space and beyond?

Amelia Cartwright: Yeah, that's a great question. And I think for me, we look at ⁓ equality, diversity and inclusion. For me, the inclusion part is really, really important in terms of ⁓ charity retail and the sector where we are today and opportunities that still exist. I think it's about the opportunities that are available to ⁓ people. So I think whether it's someone who is in an area and sees, for example, a job vacancy come up, are they being afforded the same opportunity as everyone else to truly apply for that? Are we being as inclusive within our recruitment, whether that's within Shaw Trust or any other kind of charity, ⁓ to ensure that people ⁓ apply? ⁓ is really, really important. I also think recognising where our shops sit. some of the localism is about demographic. I appreciate, dependent on where those shops are, those demographics may well suit. But I think it's having the mindset and open-mindedness to understand that if you recruit people that are just the same as you or just similar to you, have similar views to you, live in the same town as you, you are going to get the same result potentially over and over again. I think if you can open up your mind to recruit someone who is slightly different to you or has a slightly different skill set to you, then you become more inclusive and actually you're probably going to have a much better business model and business impact and outputs by having that different range of thinking, different perspectives and also challenge. Sometimes we recruit or we ⁓ create opportunities, ⁓ but it's human nature, I suppose. It's easier if people don't challenge and people get on with what they're asked to get on with. ⁓ But actually having and setting the right conditions that people feel able to challenge, able to raise what they wish to raise, and that that feedback is accepted and listened to, engaged with. ⁓ in some way ⁓ by leaders within organisations I think is really, really important. Within charity retail I see a real opportunity for more inclusivity ⁓ and for ⁓ more of a mix within the sector in terms of ⁓ characteristics and I will actually say race is one of them that I see. as an area that definitely could be improved in terms of inclusivity and the demographic that sits within the sector now. ⁓ And that's a good lead into our next question, actually. So what are some steps then that ⁓ charity retailers can do to recruit and retain a more diverse volunteer ⁓ and base, including trustees and boards? So ⁓ any ideas on that? Yes, I think it is. I think you're right. It is about representation. And I think the more senior, as you've pointed out, kind of the need becomes that representation wanes somewhat. I think it is in ensuring that through social media, through our own networks that we share, we repost, we signpost even to people that we feel. might be ⁓ able to step into that space and to go for those opportunities. And I think that I take that responsibility quite seriously in terms of if opportunities come up, truly sharing them. But also sometimes ⁓ we need to give people almost the pat on the shoulder to say, have a look at this. You could really do this and you could do it well. I think sometimes people read whether it's a kind of job description or an opportunity, and particularly females actually, and they, because they don't tick a couple of the boxes, they say, ⁓ no, I'm not gonna go for that. And I think it is building individuals up, but taking that responsibility and accountability quite seriously myself to, now it's not forcing people to go for the opportunities if they don't wish to, obviously they don't have to, but I think ⁓ championing them and saying, you you really could. do this and it might be great if you did and actually you would be bringing a wealth of experience and support and everything else to the opportunity that's before you and I think that's probably ⁓ lacking somewhat across I think the charity retail sector but I think some of that is to do with the sector and how we work we are busy so when you ⁓ start looking at the ⁓ physical shops and what people are doing, they're dealing with customers every day, you can end up a little bit tunnel visioned and not opening up your eyes to what else is out there and what other support can be given.

In-person participant 1: ⁓ And just before we move on I like you said about ⁓ the busyness of sector. ⁓ And ⁓ although, yeah, all are busy, ⁓ there's not one rule book for charity retail the same way I think there is for a lot of like commercial mainstream retail. yeah, if we always say that charity retail spaces are a community hub, we have to be. because ⁓ we are an integral part of the high street. ⁓ And so we need to champion every voice because if we don't, where will? ⁓ So really, really important discussion. Thank you.

Amelia Cartwright: And so we need to champion every voice because if we don't, where will? So really, really important discussion. Yeah. And that's the thing, EDI should naturally fit within charity because the whole point of charities are that they provide funding or services for something that needs to be fixed or is broken or needs extra help or there is some kind of disadvantage. And that's why I'm always quite astounded when actually charities shy away from the EDI conversation because it should fit. very naturally. So on that point, Renata, do you feel that the charity sector as a whole is progressing in its EDI journey or do you think there is still a long way to go? I think it's progressing, but I think there is definitely still opportunity. So I think that there is still some way to go. My feeling is if I bring it to charity retail specifically, I suppose, you know, we are retailers, we're on high streets, but I think that there sometimes is a tendency ⁓ to somehow accept mediocrity and we mustn't. know, we are commercial businesses that absolutely need to income generate and make profit surplus ⁓ for our parent organizations to support them. And we need the best people that we possibly can with diverse perspectives, with lived experience. and with skill sets and knowledge to truly support us to drive those businesses, those organisations forward. And in accepting mediocrity, what you do is you leave ⁓ gaps in skill sets or with people potentially taking on more in a role than maybe they should be, therefore unpicking some of the good work ⁓ or not allowing those opportunities to be truly explored for the... best outcomes that you can possibly get, the most income generation, et cetera, et cetera. So I think that there's definitely opportunity in the EDI space, which will support that moving forward. I love that that is gonna be my phrase of this episode is do not accept mediocrity. Do not accept it guys. We are not mediocre, we will not accept. And I agree with you, think we've done a lot haven't we? Like I feel like in the years that I've been in the charity retail sector, Celebrating Pride Month has certainly come a long way and the consultancy has helped that with their Pride windows competition that we do every single year and I think that's fantastic and that's given it real awareness and raised the conversation about that but there's so much more we can do you know, how do our charity shops celebrate Black History Month? did a, did a, Definitely loads more opportunity there.

In-person participant 1: So then moving on more to community impact, how do your shops and social enterprise sites contribute to their local communities beyond income?

Amelia Cartwright: so community and retail within Shaw Trust absolutely contributes aside from income generation. We have over 400 volunteers who support, which absolutely encapsulates the inclusive nature of our shops and giving people the opportunity socially to get involved and also to upskill and progress themselves in volunteer roles. Within charity retail specifically within Shaw Trust in 2025, we absolutely also supported sustainability and environmental. impact across the piece. So we saved over 750,000 items from ending up in landfill and we saved over 900 tonnes of CO2 emissions which also supported Shaw Trust to be carbon positive ahead of our kind of aims and aspirations. So some really great things happening. So if I was a charity now I would be like how do you calculate that especially the carbon dioxide? ⁓ really, Kudos goes to charity retail associations, because got a really helpful calculator ⁓ online, ⁓ which anyone can have access And we utilize that to support our across the year. But they're great figures ⁓ to support. ⁓ the additionality of impact as well as social value to really demonstrate the cyclical nature of charity retail items, say from landfill and of course those vital ⁓ CO2 emissions which we want to reduce as much as possible. Is that that calculator that's on the website where you kind of put in like number of t-shirts, number of books and then it just... generates it. That's it, yep, and it's really, really flexible because if you've got furniture shops, it's got big items of furniture, smaller items of furniture, so you can really nuance it for any charity retail shop that you've got. Got it. Great tip then. Great tip for everyone else.

In-person participant 1: That is incredible, that is absolutely amazing. definitely go ⁓ check that out if you haven't done yet and show what sort of social impact you are making. ⁓

Amelia Cartwright: Yeah, and Robin at the CRI will take that commission for that plug as well, So talking about social value then, it's something that we use a lot in this sector and we certainly have used it a lot more since the CRI did their own social value toolkit. What does social value look like to you? What does it mean to you then? So in terms of social value us at Shaw Trust, ⁓ always look at the ⁓ wider impact. So as an organisation and ⁓ I touched on previously, we've got lots of different ⁓ of Shaw Trust which supports, so we've got our children's homes, we've got our employability contracts, we've got... ⁓ young people that we support through apprenticeships and learning and skills. In terms of charity retail, we tend to look at the figure which was also released by Charity Retail Association that for every pound that goes through the tills, there's £7.35 worth of social value. So when you add that up across the year, that is truly, truly significant. And then of course there is other social value in terms of, you know, the volunteering opportunities, the community impact and inclusivity, which can also be added in. So I think that there is a lot for Shaw Trust as a whole, but I also think for charity retail specifically, even with just the calculation of for every pound spent, £7.35 is evident as social value is really, really big.

In-person participant 1: fantastic and another really good resource. So just to ⁓ round off we ask our final question, which where do you think charities need to adapt fastest

Amelia Cartwright: think It's a really good question. I think there's been so many changes in the sector and within charity retail across recent years. Of course, COVID had a massive impact. And then as I talked about previously, you've got vintage, up kind of online platforms, which are also impacting quality of donations and quantity of donations amongst other things. We've also got some other challenges in real living wage, inflation, in terms of economic impact, which I think all of us are feeling in the sector. I think for me, though, it's the agility that we need to be aware of. And I think that agility needs to be thought about for all areas of the business. So we tend to think of immediately efficiencies and cost saving. And yeah, that's really, really important. And we must think about that. But I also think the agility in our colleague and staffing structures, what do we want more of? What could we do less of? Where can digital tools, dare I say AI, use safely, ⁓ really support our businesses moving forward? And I think for shops that continue to do what they've always done, ⁓ they may struggle as we move forward into the future because we need to be alive of changes, alive to the environmental challenges, economic challenges, to truly be able to flex and be agile ⁓ to meet those challenges and hopefully come out on top in terms of income generation ⁓ and surplus generated. That's a really good answer because there's only so much cost cutting you can do, right, when you're scraping the barrel. for cost-cutting, people have got to think outside the box and become more agile. So yeah, so if there's one thing to take away then today, after speaking to you Renata, it's that leadership rooted in community, inclusion and innovation is definitely what will carry charity retail going forward. So whether that's social value, improving EDI or strengthening your retail strategy, then the charity retail consultancy is here to help you do that with confidence. And obviously on a personal note, I do run EDI workshops and training for the consultancy. I get it, EDI is not always the most comfortable conversation topic to be had. So if you're a little bit worried and a little bit anxious about how you start that up in your charity, then get in touch and we can organize something either online or in person for you.

In-person participant 1: And yeah, I've thoroughly enjoyed chatting to you today. It's been really insightful, firstly, to talk more and learn more about what Shaw Trust does ⁓ and engage with that because it is so vital up and down the UK at the moment. ⁓ And yeah, to learn more about your interest in and something that I push for and think really is the future. So it's been really lovely to speak to you. ⁓ before we go, for our shop shout out of the day. ⁓ Renata, ⁓ would you like to give a shout out to? ⁓ charity shops doing amazing things that you've seen ⁓ colleagues or community groups that you'd like to celebrate on the podcast?

Amelia Cartwright: In of shout out, I think I want to shout out ⁓ the ⁓ whole my team within community and retail ⁓ at Shaw Trust. We have a garden center that's within that. We've got a employability contract in Edinburgh ⁓ and we've got our retail estate as well. and I want to acknowledge how hard every single one of those colleagues works. And I also want to shout out specifically our charity retail shops, our colleagues who work within those shops every single day, and the senior team within my area that supports day in and day out. Thank you all. Lovely. Always nice to hear a shout out to your team, isn't it?

In-person participant 1: Yeah, big props to everyone for changing the world and changing a lot ⁓ of lives. It's fantastic. ⁓ Exactly.

Amelia Cartwright: Changing the world one shop at a time. Thank you, Renata for joining us today. It's been a really rich conversation, and we've loved having you today. you so much for having me. It's been great.

In-person participant 1: people would like to reach out to you or to Shaw Trust, where can we find you?

Amelia Cartwright: in terms of finding out more about Shaw Trust ⁓ or retail within Shaw Trust if people head on over to our website which is shoretrust.org.uk ⁓ they'll able to find lots of information as well as where all of our shops are located if you wish to ⁓ Go and have a look at the shops buy something donate or volunteer and you'll find all the information on our website ⁓ And anyone that wishes to reach out to me? Personally and can find me on LinkedIn Renata Graver

In-person participant 1: fantastic, you guys know where to go after listening to this episode. So if you have enjoyed this episode, follow the podcast, and ⁓ share with anyone loves charity retail as much as we do. ⁓ You can follow on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn at the Charity Retail Consultancy.

Amelia Cartwright: us on Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn at the Charity Retail Consultancy. But for now, that is all from us today. But as always, Charity Retail is full of stories that deserve to be told and we love sharing them with you. So until the next episode, bye.