speaker-0: Welcome to CXO Loading. I'm Lauren Miles, CX director using this podcast to build the insight, technical confidence and career context that you and I both need to make the move to C Suite. Conversations like this one with Elena Rosanova is why this podcast exists. If you want feedback to lead to better decisions, this is the one for you. As an experienced CX lead, Elena's CX career started. With an unexpected service moment, and she now builds customer experience inside a B2B organization that is more than 260 years old. We talk about earning trust in established organizations, how to bring people with you, using behavioural science to reveal the friction that is hidden inside those simple customer journeys. Thank you so much for taking the time ⁓ to join me today. So you started in marketing, now a senior leader in CX. Talk to me. How did that happen?

speaker-1: Yeah. It's it's my pleasure to learn. It's actually a funny story because my father told me I'll work in marketing when I was about twelve years old. And to be frank, I didn't like the word the word marketing. I thought well management sounded a bit more fancy. So I said, No, no, no, I'm not gonna work in marketing and then eventually my career path led me to marketing. 'Cause I was always very human oriented. I sociology in uni. And so it was always fascinated with human nature and how people interact. And then when I ended up in marketing, I like, Okay, it is fun actually. It is fun because the marketing books were interesting and management were a bit dull. So I kind of switched up my mind. But I was always feeling like at that time, which is like end of two thousands, beginning of two thousands ten, that I kind of was missing something. I I was missing in my work. And at one point I was working for a British ⁓ design consultancy. We were working for shopping centres. I was in real estate and commercial real estate market. And a a funny thing again happened, as in many things in my life. A a friend of mine left the keys from the place I was staying at the Citizen ⁓ Hotel. And long story short, when I arrived they couldn't find my keys, but they arranged me a room in the hotel for no costs. And then in the morning I was greeted by the manager of that hotel and and she told me all about how they operate. And I left the hotel with an aha moment inside of me. I like, why are we not doing this for my industry, for shopping centers of then? It was 2014. I started digging. I I managed to find first design thinking, then service design, and then eventually came across customer experience. And I was like, that's what I was this is the field that encapsulates everything I was. willing to do was excited about. And so there was a lot of reading, connecting, learning about CXPA and and other things. Of course, Claire Musket's podcast at some point came into my life and got me even more excited. And I've learned a ton. So it it was those moments that changed life that eventually lead to where we am today. A lot of that are connected with amazing people. I met across the way who just opened my eyes to some some things that I was like, Okay, wow, that's amazing.

speaker-0: Amazing. Yeah, no, absolutely. I concur with all of that. What do you think that somebody misses when they think about kind of CX as just this this standalone function rather than a way of working? Because you kinda had that aha moment and

speaker-1: I think and again, I I know people are talking about that, but maybe we're not really doing it is the fact that customer experience isn't it the way you do things. And you need someone to help manage that. Yeah. So function needs to exist in order for some things to happen, like an accounting or or service delivery. But overall everybody needs to play the role. And it is a system. What I want us to talk more is how Customer experience helps to develop and sustain the system of business, where in many cases silos are preferred way of operating, which kind of makes sense to in terms of management. It's easier to manage art, but it's also harder to achieve the results if this part sometimes go in slightly different directions. And I love the podcast, which is now not not working anymore by ⁓ Dean Bliss as she called it the human duct tape show. And custom experiences like duct tape connecting the business units for the greater good. And ⁓ this is what we're trying to instill here as well in my organization is is bringing people together and connecting them rather than coming just and saying, ⁓ now you need to do it my way. Yeah. 'Cause I tried it and it didn't work. Yeah.

speaker-0: Well, 'cause you're in you're in B to B now and you know, the organisation is is not the newest when we kind of think CX and and innovation and you're working at an organization that's two hundred and sixty years young. What does that look like in practice? How do you kind of build trust to to get people behind that that scene?

speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ it is indeed an interesting organization to work with because not only the organization is that established and mature in terms of army image on the market, but a lot of people in this organization grew within it. So our leadership started their careers here and still going on. And there were people ⁓ working here thirty years, forty years, forty five years retiring from here. And so there is this very Internal clear vision of what they want it to be and how to go. But as in many cases, what happens is if you are so internally focused with the world changing as rapidly as it is now with new technologies, new competitors, new services happen, you you need to look outside and you need to to hear and understand your clients. So we started from this. We started from bringing the real voice of the clients to the business. So it's not sounding it's Lena said so. Cause I I don't have an opinion whether it's good or bad. It's not my place to say. My place is to bring the client feedback, connected to the realities of the business, and say, well, if the client is having hard time to do this job, Then it's quite fair to say that it's impacting the business and our ability to achieve our business objectives. And so this was the first thing. And I have an amazing team, and it's my colleague ⁓ Matt who is doing all all this research and helped me to then bring it to the business. But that was the first thing. You first need to help them hear what the clients are saying before you can come and say, this is This is what we need to do. This is how we'll change the process or anything. So this is also helping people be on the journey of understanding that clients have a say. And it it sounds funny, but when you're so well established in the organization, you've been for so long, you kind of assume that you know all of these things. So challenging the some of the assumptions was also very important, but not challenging it in a way that again. I'm just joining and I'm saying that you're wrong. It's a lot of learning. And what I found useful is being just curious about everything and and ask those, you know, not smart questions and say, you know what, I don't understand. And still four years in, I don't understand a lot of this business because it's complex, it's nuanced, it's global. The way people operate in various business ⁓ business structures or even globally is is different. So It is a lot of this alignment and just building connections and bridges for now. So on the personal level, at the same time while communicating, what are we doing? How is it changing the business? How clients do perceive our business. And we celebrate all the successes. We're open about our failures.

speaker-0: I think it's amazing the amount you've managed to shift that business perspective on feedback and how feedback is a positive thing and and something that can help the business move forward. How did you go about making that something that was actionable for the business?

speaker-1: Yeah, it's it's a lot of moving parts, especially in those big businesses where a lot of bureaucracy happens. And not bureaucracy for a bad reason, but just to make sure it it's operational. Like do you do you have divisions? We have a division that's solely focused on project management and ⁓ you know, business analysts work there, project managers and all all all the rest. There are a number of things we're doing. So One is I oversee the separate team which dealing with, for example, complaints and compliments. Every a quarter we create a report which goes all the way to our leadership team that provides the insight into what the clients were struggling with in the past. What is still the problem for the business? This report th goes obviously to the business leaders who then review and see are some of those things on the pipeline because we constantly have projects like big projects that tend to resolve some of this. So do we have to do anything now? For example, is that a quick fix or something that is already in the pipeline or has to be put on the pipeline in the for the future in order for us to achieve the result. ⁓ there are also obviously projects where we are involved. So if there is a particular project or journey that we're ⁓ redesigning, we'll pull all the information. So we'll do first desk research from everything we have in our ⁓ database. We obviously will do our research with clients or colleagues. We're using various tools, including some of the EI capabilities to speed up some of the process, but also increase the speed of analyzing and generating insights. And then we bring it into the project and share it with the teams. So we are on the same page and then we dry them towards so how Can we resolve these problems and how can we make the experience better? But again, what I'm always trying to think through is a simple structure. We need to think as we're a business and even nonprofit as a business. We need to think about what are the objectives of the business? What are we trying to achieve as a business? Then we need to think what customer experience will lead to us being able to achieve these results. Right. What are the client behaviors? And this is where this connection with behavior science starts to happen. So what are the client behaviors that will lead to those results? And then we go to the process and technology. Sometimes businesses tend to go straight to technology because it's fancier. It's all of those new new tech, new AI features and all of that. But it's a it's a mistake to go this way. So this is where we're we're striving to do that, but we're complex business. So it's not that every single situation is is easy and we're nailing it. It's only been four years since I've joined and we established the customer experience function. We grew enormously and we do make a lot of impact, but we're still on a journey.

speaker-0: Yeah. No, a hundred percent. I can feel how much you approach this as a change initiative to bring the people with you as opposed to tech first. You're big on behaviour science. How are you applying that thinking to your change management approach to your CX?

speaker-1: Yeah. We're in the n in the beginning of this, so we didn't yet originalize that in the way that I would like this to happen. But ⁓ it totally makes sense to look into what behavior science is teaching us and at least introduce it in thinking. So when we for example were redesigning one of the particular experiences for our colleagues in submission of some information to us, I've done a quick behavior map and just visualize the number of of small actions that colleagues need to do in order for them to achieve a very simple thing of submitting certain piece of information to our systems. This was very, very visually interesting. The other thing we've done last year is I've done the same thing, but for clients on boarding. Or particularly registration for one one tool they're using. And again, just the number of small actions which are hidden from the journey maps showed the enormous pressure we put on clients when we say, well, it's easy. You just you just register. But the registration meant meant like 25 small steps, including other people and them, you know, need to be doing some things in addition to your actions. So So it just clearly showed the people I was working with that just saying, ⁓ it's a simple registration step in a journey map means a ton of activity for the client and which means that the chances are they're gonna do it are going to the minimum. I'm trying also to apply as much as possible in the projects and around discussions for now at least. The model that was designed, I believe, by a UCL in ⁓ in London. And that's Combi model. So Capability, opportunity, motivation that leading to behavior. I know that there are many behavioral design and and analysis models. So I'm not saying this is this is the best. I just like it and I think it's very simple for people to understand. So whenever we discuss something about the change, ⁓ or even like if we want to change somebody's mind in terms of ⁓ how they perceive CX or should they do something, I'm thinking, do they have the knowledge, the capability, the understanding? ⁓ and if not, then I need to do something. Do they have an opportunity? C can they actually do the thing? Because maybe they just don't have authority to do it. So I can I can talk for hours, but they won't change. And then are they motivated? Because we also need to remember that we all have our objectives for the year. We are we need to do our bit. And so if I'm coming with something mid year and saying you need to change something, how likely will you do it? What's your motivation? How can I present it to you? So it's interesting. For you to to make this change in the behavior and eventually do the thing that you're doing. And it goes the same way for the clients. So again, we're not yet at the point when we do it consistently for every single journey. Because we we do some parts of it, but a lot of behavior science is based on the experiments. And many big businesses are not yet at that level when they are willing to do those tiny experiments. Yeah. So we're still in the process, but I truly believe CX can benefit. If we're taking this lens on and truly connect the behaviour with emotion.

speaker-0: Amazing. And as a senior CX leader that is, you know, well on her way to being the top of, you know, the CX industry, if I'm looking to get started in behavioral science or possibly take up some of the opportunities that, you know, C UX has that, you know, CX can benefit, where would you suggest that I start?

speaker-1: There are resources. So there is a good website. I think it's called Behavioral Scientist, where it has a ton of information. You can subscribe to get some more additional information. But there are articles, book recommendations, ⁓ I think podcast recommendations. There are a couple of courses. I think ⁓ Aim for Change is the website that ⁓ I use to take one of I think actually a couple of courses on behavioral design and change. They were ⁓ based on Combi model. Obviously the UCL materials. And again, they have a very good course on the basics of behavioral design. I guess I guess analysis and design. So there are so many resources, but I guess the question is learn a little bit and try to apply it and and engage people and see the benefits. And then you can learn a bit more. 'Cause what might happen is that you learn all these things and for one reason or another, you you're if you're not applying it, it kind of dies out. So like with the language, for example, you learn it, you test it, you go back, you learn new words and and you do it. But also behavioral science community as CX community are very welcoming and very supportive. So Yeah, you can you can learn from people like we've all

speaker-0: Yeah, amazing. Thank you so much for your time today, Alina. It's been absolutely amazing to everything you've accomplished. And I could just ask you about fifty more questions. Well thank you so much. ⁓ and we will put all of the links to any recommended resources and stuff into the show notes so the listeners can take full advantage of everything you've recommended. Yeah, thank you so much for your time.

speaker-1: Thank you. Thank you. It was a pleasure.

speaker-0: You can find more resources from this episode, practical prompts, and a growing CXO Codex at CXocodecs.com. Each episode is built to help turn good CX insight into their career moves, confidence and influence to take you to C Suite. If you want to keep the conversation going, you can join Women in CX. It's a brilliant space to connect with other senior CX leaders who are building, leading and shaping the future of customer experience. Subscribe, share and we'll see you next time on CXO loading.