Lauren Miles: Welcome to CXO Loading. I'm Lara Miles, a CX director using this podcast to build the insight, technical confidence and career context that you and I need to make the next move to CXO. In this episode, I speak to Lara Khouri an executive advisor on organisational trust, human centred growth, and commercial change. Lara is beyond impressive. We talk about how She has achieved her incredible results. We talked trusts, silos, leading through change and why CX does not always need more technology. Let's get into it. I would love to just jump in. You are Lara Khouri: Sure. Lauren Miles: a very successful exec coach. CX is your game. How have Lara Khouri: Yeah. Lauren Miles: you built that career? Lara Khouri: By mistake. That that's the honest truth is by mistake. I graduated many, many years ago with what was a degree in media and communications and a minor Lauren Miles: Alright, nice. Lara Khouri: in psychology. My focus was on marketing, and in fact, every job I had throughout my corporate career always had marketing in the title. But inevitably, when I would go into the organization, there would be things that needed doing that were outside marketing and were also outside other people's roles. And most people didn't want to be involved for whatever reason, either they had family. Or they didn't feel that they would get the recognition that they wanted, or they felt they weren't capable, or no one asked them, whatever it was. And I would look at our customers, I'd look at my colleagues, and I would think to myself, but someone needs to do this for their benefit. Lauren Miles: Mm. Yeah. Lara Khouri: So I'd be the one, you know, at the back of the room going, pick me, pick me. And sometimes I'd be the one at the front of the room being voluntold that I Lauren Miles: I'm Lara Khouri: was going to do something. so th that's how this happened, completely by mistake. I didn't even know that I was CXing until around twenty seventeen. when I realized, my goodness, I've I've been doing CX and EX and leading transformation, not managing the transformation, but leading Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: it, which is, as you know very well, something completely different. It's all about the people, Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: not the resources necessarily or the timeline. So that's how we built Lauren Miles: And what kind of gave you the confidence to move into that space before, even you had a language for it? Lara Khouri: That's a really good question. It wasn't a matter of confidence, it was a matter of someone needed to do it. Lauren Miles: Mm. Lara Khouri: And there was never a question of did I feel confident, did I feel ready, did I have the resources because someone needed to do it. So Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: it was really just that. For me it was always just that black and white. It needs to get done. No one else Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: is volunteering or or being volunteered. I'm going to do it. Lauren Miles: Yeah, amazing. Because you've had some incredible results before you even had access to a team or a budget. Talk me through some of those. Lara Khouri: Right. Well, I'll talk about the one that was the first one, the first result that I had that was a CX rather than marketing initiative. Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: I was working with an entity that was experiencing customer churn and didn't know how to stop it because the reason that customers were leaving wasn't because of anything that the local team were doing. My experience is mainly with multinationals. And so there's always been a local team and a home team, or an HQ team and a smaller team responsible for wherever they are, even if the HQ and the smaller Lauren Miles: Hmm. Lara Khouri: team are in the same location. So in this case, the HQ was Doing something, but it wasn't meeting the needs of the smaller local population, which is where the local team were having their customer churn. And I remember talking to the regional director and saying, Look, we've got to do something about it because it's not right that we're not keeping our promise to our customers. And he said, I'm on board, you are absolutely welcome to do whatever it is that you. Think will work. I can't give you any budget, and I can't give you a team. It's you and whatever you can cobble together. So I sat with the account managers to understand what the customers were saying to them when they would Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: call up and say, Well, we want to cancel and be with someone else. And it was always the same thing. They were always saying, You are not giving us the information that we need at the time. Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: That we need it. The information that we get is either too late or incomplete as far as our needs are concerned. So I just sat and thought on it for a while, and then I put together. This is going back, by the way, to the very early 2000s, before we even had Blackberries. So I pulled up Microsoft Word, put a couple of columns Lauren Miles: Mm. Lara Khouri: And I said to the account management team and the sales team, help me populate it with the information that your customers need. And so that's what we did. And then I said, Great. Now please let me know when this information needs to go out. And so we would have every quarter when the information Lauren Miles: you Lara Khouri: would need to go out from us. So every quarter I would sit with the customer, with the account and the sales team, and I would say, tell me what. you know your customers need to know. They would say, right, this, this, this, and that. In an hour I would get all the information, put it in Microsoft Word, save it as a PDF, send it to the account management team, and they would send it to the customers and customer churn went down to zero. Lauren Miles: Hello? Lara Khouri: And that was I didn't realize anything at that time because that was just my job Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: as far as anyone was concerned. Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: I realized much later that CX Doesn't have to be expensive or time consuming. It doesn't Lauren Miles: Yeah Lara Khouri: have to be something that you do so differently. Just a little tweak here and there can make a massive difference. Right? It's like anything in life. It's like going to the gym. You're not going to see a difference from your first session. Maybe Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: not even from your tenth session. But over time, small changes Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: lead to big change. Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: And CX can do that. Lauren Miles: Amazing. think hearing you describe getting down to zero churn from like a two column document is, you know, as a catalyst is incredible. I think Lara Khouri: Thank you. Lauren Miles: the skill, if we kind of ignore the tool is that you really got to the nub of what the customer meant by, relevant and timely in terms of information. What If I'm just trying to get started in this space as a CX lead, what kind of tools or approach would you suggest I use to get to that kind of clarity? Lara Khouri: That's a beautiful question. Because it sits at the heart of what I believe CX is about. It's about treating people with consideration. Not about the way you want to be treated. Because we always we were told this when we were kids, right? Treat people the way you want to be treated. No. Treat people the way they want to be treated. So be considerate Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: of their needs, of their pain. And this what I suggest is something that AI Cannot do, which is actually sit with. If you are getting your start in CX, sit with everyone you're working with: account managers, sales team, regional directors, whatever their titles are. them how do they do their job? Who do they work with? What resources do they have that make their jobs easy? What resources do they wish they had? Understand their challenges, understand. what makes them tick, understand their perception of the customers, the market, the product, the service that you are ultimately responsible for. Then talk to your customers. And get their side. Because as CX professionals, one of the things that we are expected to be able to do is balance the company's needs with the customers' needs. can't do that if you're only hearing one side of the story. can't do that if everything if the information is siloed, which inevitably it is, because just so much information out there. As CX Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: professionals, It's our job, literally our job, to understand everything so that we can put together a strategy and then a plan and tactics and initiatives that balance both sides of the coin, the organization and the customers. Lauren Miles: Yeah, amazing. I think it's really interesting to hear you describe those silos of information. And as you're working in these multinational organizations, I can imagine it's quite difficult not to have the different departments play off each other, particularly when you've got like a HQ. How do you stop people blaming that department or that department? when you've got an issue with something like churn or efficiency. No. Lara Khouri: You can't. That's just the truth. You cannot stop people blaming each other. Not because people want to blame each other, not Lauren Miles: Mm. Lara Khouri: because people don't want to take responsibility, but because what organizations do, and this is something that a friend of mine recently wrote LinkedIn post about Organizations say that they hire for one thing, which is usually out-of-the-box thinking. Once, and I've seen this through my corporate career and even as a consultant, once the person is hired, first of all, it's usually the person who is closest to the box who gets hired. Right? So they want out-of-the-box Lauren Miles: Hehehehehe Lara Khouri: thinking, but they'll hire the person closest to the box. And I did just experience this with someone with a multinational. They hired the person closest to the box. Then once the person gets into the organization, Lauren Miles: Mm-hmm. Lara Khouri: What is rewarded is not out-of-the-box thinking, it is the perception of competence. And when you are doing something that is so different than what the people in the organization are used to seeing, it Lauren Miles: Mm-hmm. Lara Khouri: is very difficult for it to be seen as competence because their definition of competence and their understanding of competence, you are outside of it. So what I've seen is when it comes to this blame game, Lauren Miles: Mm-hmm. Lara Khouri: right, and finger pointing, it is because organizations. Organizations reward their perception of competence. And therefore, blaming is the only way to really prove I'm not incompetent. Someone else is. You talk about Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: something, but you reward the opposite, so people are going to behave in a way that keeps them safe and keeps them rewarded. Lauren Miles: Mm. Lara Khouri: When that is the way that organizations are run, you talk about one thing but you reward another, yes, people are going to blame each other in to not be the ones who aren't rewarded, in order to not be the ones who are in any way negatively impacted. If that changes, then you can change, Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: it's also one of the reasons that people keep information in silos, because they can't Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: guarantee what someone else is going to do with that information. Lauren Miles: So they, yes, it has to be this organizational systemic approach to, process Lara Khouri: Yep. Lauren Miles: people behavior. And absolutely. Lara Khouri: Absolutely. Lauren Miles: Yeah, 100 % agree. You've had some amazing success through change programs where you have you've kept Lara Khouri: Thank you. Lauren Miles: the whole team on board, both Lara Khouri: Yes. Lauren Miles: change and, success and you can feel that the EMPS scores of those remained nice and high. How did you do that? Tell me more about that. Lara Khouri: I had Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: a team in different parts of at the time it was the Middle East and Africa. there were people in the UAE where I'm currently based, there were people in Nigeria, South Africa, Lebanon, Syria, wherever. And we were all going through a massive change from being a fully funded department, so where the HQ would give the department our Share of whatever the pot was to operating a full cost recovery model. And what that meant, which I don't believe the team knew, I certainly never shared this with them because at the time I didn't feel it would serve anyone for them to know that full cost recovery meant that we had to earn our salaries. And if we didn't earn our salaries, jobs would get cut. And I did I didn't feel the need to let to scare people that way. So and th this happened within twenty-four hours. So literally the end of one financial year, whatever we hadn't spent got taken back and we went down to zero. So I made the time to talk to every single person wherever they were based. Some people I was able to meet face to face in person. Other people had to be over the phone. And I From them. Why do you work here? Why did you choose this organization? Why did you choose this role? What do you enjoy about what you do? What's your biggest challenge? What do you wish people knew? Tell me about the customers. What do you like about them? Who are your favorite ones? And then I did the same with the customers. Why do you work with us? We're not the only providers, you could go elsewhere. So I understood. What was it that my team loved? About their role, Lauren Miles: Mm. Lara Khouri: what were their challenges, what was it that our customers appreciated? Lauren Miles: Mm-hmm. Lara Khouri: And I then got the team from where they were, right, with Lauren Miles: Mm. Lara Khouri: what they love and what scares them and what challenges them to understand the value that they bring to their customers so that they could go out and solve their customers' problems. Because that was the number one thing that kept coming back from my team was when I work with our customers, I feel like I am helping them. And so it was just about getting them to understand you can help them while also getting rewarded for offering that help. And this is actually Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: a conversation that I'm about to have with another multinational next week where I was talking to the sales team and they were saying, Well yeah, well we sell tech and I thought, No, you don't know what you're selling. Because I know your customers, I've spoken customers, and I know that they're not buying tech from you. They are buying data, they are buying an answer to a challenge that they have. They are buying insight. They are buying support. What they're not buying is tech, but that's what you think you're selling. Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: So the way you sell is going to be very different than how your customers want to buy. And in fact, their issue is customer retention because once they sell the tech they leave the customer alone. Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: But that's not what the customer is buying. You're not offering them what they are actually buying. So Lauren Miles: No. Yeah. Lara Khouri: yes, they're going to leave. And they said they said they actually said very clearly. Customer acquisition is our biggest focus because customer retention is so low. Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: Well you know and I know. costs a lot more to a new customer than to retain an existing one. Right? Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: So that that's it. And it's really the same no matter what industry. So to whoever is listening, it doesn't matter what industry you're in. I've done this for tech, I've done this for education, I've done this for design and fit out. Whatever your customer, you have to understand the value that you are bringing to your customer Lauren Miles: Hmm. Lara Khouri: because it might be a completely different service than what you think you're actually selling to them. Lauren Miles: Yeah, I think 100 % agree. And you can feel in the way that you talk there, the amount of energy that goes into each and every one of these CX interventions, for want of a better phrase. How do you keep that edge? How do you stay at the top of this CX game? Lara Khouri: my goodness, so many ways. First and foremost, I take every opportunity that I can to meet people like yourself. and just have a coffee, whether it's a virtual coffee or an in-person coffee, and just ask, what are you doing? What are you seeing? What changes are are you experiencing? Tell me about your customers. I've rediscovered RSS feeds. I rediscovered them a few months ago and I now get to listen while I work to Gosh, who is it? Wall Street Journal, Harvard Business Review, Forbes. It's important to hear what the thought leaders are doing, what they're seeing, because it may not be directly relevant to something that I'm doing today. It could be directly relevant to something that I'll be doing next month or next year. If you always only focus I find that It means I'm not staying on top of the game because that's just how my brain functions. I don't know when I'll use the information. I know that I need to have it so that I can use it. So it's the RSS feeds, it's talking to people, Even though I'm on sabbatical, even though I'm not actively working with clients, I am still meeting with people and then referring them to other CX professionals. Right? So I will understand their problems, I will understand their issues, and I will tell them. I'm at this moment not taking on any clients. Here's who I recommend you work with. So I do still have these ways of keeping my finger. on the pulse of what's what's Lauren Miles: Yeah. Lara Khouri: happening, not just here, other parts US, Australia, but anywhere. And yes, I I do work ridiculous hours because of the time presses. But I can do that. And I don't mind doing that. Lauren Miles: Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Lara Khouri: And and I enjoy doing that. So it could be two o'clock in the morning that I'm having a call with someone somewhere and it could be five o'clock in the morning that I'm having a call. Lauren Miles: Yeah, amazing. thank you so much. I think there is so much that we can take away from this discussion. Lara Khouri: Thank you. Lauren Miles: Yeah, incredible. And I definitely think there's a few listeners that are on their way to pick up an RSS feed, probably like you say, for the first time Lara Khouri: Honestly. Lauren Miles: in a little while. Thank you so much, Lara. That was amazing. Lara Khouri: Thank you, Lara. Lauren Miles: You can find more resources from this episode, practical prompts, and a growing CXO Codex at cxocodex.com Each episode is built to help turn good CX insight into their career moves, confidence and influence to take you to C Suite. If you want to keep the conversation going, you can join Women in CX. It's a brilliant space to connect with other senior CX leaders who are building, leading and shaping the future of customer experience. and we'll see you next time on CXO Loading.