Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Hello again, welcome everybody. Another episode of Minnesota Swim and Vibecast. I'm your host, Mark Seguin and I am joined by a special guest today, somebody who's going to be working closely with Minnesota Swim and Vibe on a very special subject, Mr. Josh Johnston. Welcome, Josh.

Josh Johnston: Alright, thanks for having me.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: So Josh swam, and I'll let him go into his detail. He swam in high school at what is now West Tonka, but it was Mound West Tonka back then. And he also swam at the University of Minnesota and he still is an assistant coach with some high school programs. So, start off, give us a little run through about your swimming bio, Josh.

Josh Johnston: Yes. Um, I had a very non-traditional swimming journey. didn't start swimming. moved here in 2014. I didn't start swimming until I was 14. So I was starting, yeah, I know I started in high school. did eighth grade through senior year with Orono Mount Westonka. It was a co-op at the time. And from about eighth grade to 10th grade, I just did three months of the year high school season, no club, nothing like that.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Wow. Sure. Which is fine.

Josh Johnston: Once, yeah, and it worked for me. Once I was able to drive, then my parents released me to do year-round. And so joined, I Minnesota Flyers, which is a club that Scott Trips ⁓ runs. those of you who are plugged into the swimming world, you probably know Scott. And I ⁓ two years year-round swimming, junior, senior year. And I progressed very quickly in a very short time. went to, went to nationals. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. Hahaha Yep. You did.

Josh Johnston: those last couple years of high school before I could even blink, I was being recruited ⁓ I ended up at University of Minnesota where I swam for four years, had a great college career and now all in the past. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah, but you're still connected quite a bit to the sport, right? You're still coaching. Kind of all over the place, right?

Josh Johnston: So I had the love, I know I scurry around like a rat. The love of the swimming for me never went away. So I know some people when they finish their careers, you know, they're done and that's, that's great. Totally okay. That for me, I was like, I want to now pass on what I have learned. And so ⁓ graduating, I took a gap year before going back to school, I will start this summer, but

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Done.

Josh Johnston: I decided to come back to the high school that I swam out and give back and coach. I did West Onkka Girls, Orono Boys. I've also coached in the summertime as a college job. I've been involved with Western Swim League Country Club Swimming, which is a real fun experience if you guys don't know what that is. I highly recommend you look into it. It's a lot of fun to be outside every day with some eight-year-olds trying to teach them how to swim. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yep. It's the best. And some of the most legit coaching relays I've ever seen back in the day, because there's a lot of like elite swimmers that were working those jobs. And when we'd have the coaching relays, they'd be fast.

Josh Johnston: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ yeah, I intentionally hire people that I know are going to help me win the coaching relay. We have a very strong and proud tradition of having a successful coach for coaching relay. So when I'm hiring somebody, first I look at their resume. go, ⁓ you have a college? Exactly.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: And that's it. Yep. That's awesome. Yeah, I don't see times on here. I don't see times. Okay, I expect a swim cloud link with your resume. Yeah, after that, that's just gravy. If they can actually save a life or anything like that or instruct swimming bonus. All right, so let's tell everyone what you're going to be helping out with here. What's your passion and your project that you're going to take on?

Josh Johnston: So I'll link the works and then I look at your qualification. All right. So big picture. I'm interested in college recruiting because I remember what it was like to go through the college recruiting process. Again, as a non-traditional career in high school, my recruiting process was a whirlwind and it just, I, like I said, I blinked and I was being recruited and it just felt very overwhelming. And so I'm very sympathetic to the fact that for about 85 to 90 % of college prospects,

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Okay.

Josh Johnston: the recruiting process can feel very overwhelming. And my goal is to create and facilitate with Mark, with you, through Minnesota Swim and Vibe that is essentially a one-stop shop where Minnesota athletes can go and they can have the questions answered about recruiting. can, we will provide resources about what the recruiting process might look like, what you can expect. And then we also want to provide tools that might help you jumpstart your career.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Absolutely.

Josh Johnston: recruiting process. know, if you decide, I do want to swim in college, where do I start? We're going to be your one stop shop and your launch point for that. That will help you then get connected to excuse me, to college coaches. So that way you can enter those conversations better equipped than going in blind.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. And I know when we started talking about it, my head started like going like, this is amazing idea because not only is the, for anybody, the process is overwhelming, but the process can mean a lot of different things for a lot of different people. could be as simple as can I even swim at the next level? I don't think I'm quite done yet. What does that look like to ⁓ asked by all these coaches, whether I want to come swim there. And I have no idea what this is all about, right? It's just so many different options. ⁓ And it's I said, when I was swimming, it was much different. When you were swimming, it was still a little different than it is today. ⁓ But go ahead, talk a little bit about that. ⁓

Josh Johnston: And it. ⁓ yeah. Well, so, I mean, I think back years ago, and that was actually a little bit longer than that, maybe six years. Now I sound old. But when I went through my recruiting process, it looked a certain way. ⁓ on top of that, it looked very different from what the norm was. But even in those five to six years now, the recruiting process has again because of house and because of all of these

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. Yep.

Josh Johnston: factors that the monetization of the college experience has changed how programs across the division levels will look at college prospects. And so again, in the spirit of it can be very overwhelming unless you're at the top of that pack where you just have coach after coach after coach reaching out to you. Okay. You might not need to do a lot of work, but that's not most athletes that that was

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah, but you need to make the right decision and you need to understand the process. Even if everybody wants you, it's still a daunting process. Talk a little bit and you and I and people that are out there all the time just call it house, right? But what does house mean? What is that big piece of legislation? What it change?

Josh Johnston: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. So I will say this before I say anything, I'm not an expert. Like I've done preliminary research, but take everything I say with a grain of salt and please fact check me. But my understanding of it was, several years ago, the Supreme court allowed it. The Supreme court ruled that athletes college could monetize their name, image and likeness. That was the Supreme court ruling that came down. When, when happens, ⁓ then. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Right, that's the big piece of it.

Josh Johnston: House, who was a ⁓ swimmer for the Arizona ⁓ University, filed a lawsuit. Essentially, I even you what the lawsuit was really about, but the end outcome of the lawsuit was that a lot of college programs owed the NCAA a lot of money. ⁓ And it the recruiting landscape because the money changed. And now ⁓ it limits on rosters and it set

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yes.

Josh Johnston: a lot of rules regarding how much money can be spent and what the recruiting rules for athletes are. And it was sort of this trickle down effect where there was a lot of unintended consequences from that decision in the Grant House case that affected college programs in ways that either weren't anticipated or were just hidden in the weeds of the lawsuit.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yep, absolutely. So I think the big things are. If you wanted to categorize it, it's roster limits, how many people can be on a roster and it's the amount of money available to those people that are on the roster. So there's a lot more financial thought that goes into the process of recruiting from the college standpoint now, ⁓ They've got a pocketbook of money that they can use and a limited amount of roster slots and they are much more deliberate, I think, on how they make their selections. I think that's kind of like what I get out of it. So, and that's at the D1 and D2 level, correct? That's not just. us.

Josh Johnston: I don't know if it's trickled down to D2 yet. It's at the D1 level for sure. Whether or not it's impacted D2 yet, actually don't know. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Okay. For sure. Yeah, and for what we do know is D3 can offer athletic scholarships, so that's not impacted. ⁓

Josh Johnston: Right. If it has not affected the D2 level yet, I wouldn't be surprised if that trickles down. Yeah, exactly. So essentially what it's done for college prospects is it has made entry into the recruiting process harder.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: It all trickles down, right?

Josh Johnston: Get your foot in the door is now more difficult than it would have been four or five years ago because the standards and the investment that a coach has to put into an athlete, it's a higher risk investment now because of these new changes. So when an athlete is looking at a school and a coach is looking at an athlete, that coach is looking at that athlete and evaluating them on the risk of an investment that they're going to be to the program financially. And because of that, the standard of recruiting is now higher. You have to be better and be more. or have more potential in the eyes of a coach to even get your foot in the door. Once your foot in the door or once your foot is in the door, we can talk about that later on. But barrier of entry is now higher.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yep, that's probably a lot of different resources that will help ride down the road. Absolutely. And I know we've talked, there's kind of, and we were talking with Zach Mertens at the U, kind of like two different viewpoints of it. There's the Power4 conference viewpoint of D1, and then there's kind of the rest of D1. And those are two different levels right there. Is that correct? Did I understand, Zach?

Josh Johnston: Yeah, a hundred percent. And it, think people get really caught up in the definition of a division, right? People get really, really hammered with division one title or something along those lines. And the lines between division two, division one, even the lines within the division one circle of schools, very blurred. It is not like ⁓ and dry. is, there's a lot of gray area. There's a lot of overlap that people...

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah, I want to go D1. I got to go D1. D1, D1, D1. Yeah.

Josh Johnston: I think miss out on and it's a big misconception in the world of college recruiting if you are a prospective athlete.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Right. Like it doesn't go like the best D1 school all the way down to the worst D1 school. And then below that is the top D2 school. And then it goes all the way down. Then the top D3 school is just below the worst D2 outside of, let's say, probably the top 20 or 30 D1 programs. The rest of the D1, the top, probably quarter of D2 and the top, I don't know, 15 % of D3 all mixed together. Right. It's all roughly the same competitive level.

Josh Johnston: Yeah. But people don't understand that or, and I don't say that in a way that is why would you understand that? I didn't understand that when I went through my, right. It's just a lack of information. It's just a misunderstanding that exists. And so one of the things that we want to do is open that up for discussion and like show people who are interested in swimming in college. Here's what the reality actually is. You might hear one thing on the pool deck, or you might hear one thing in practice about what your teammate is saying, cause he's getting recruited, but

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: No, a lot of people don't. Yeah.

Josh Johnston: chances are a lot of the things that you hear from your peers or just that you might understand going into the process could be not 100 % accurate.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: I don't think a lot of times kids overvalue the stigma that goes with a division. Like if I go D1, I must be great. Right? And you can say it for a while, but in probably about six months after you make that decision to start going to school, nobody freaking cares.

Josh Johnston: Okay. Yeah. Nobody cares. also if you put your identity, this is a whole other topic, but if you are a prospective student athlete, like I was, you I did it, and you put your identity and worth in the level of swimming that you're able to achieve. If you put your stock as a person, your worth and value in who you are,

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah, but no, I want to hear this because this is a very, valid point and something I'm passionate about. I know where you're going.

Josh Johnston: into what you're able to do physically and what your body is able to perform, whether that takes you to division one level or division three level. If that is where you are deriving your sense of worth and personhood, you will never be fulfilled. And when you get to that goal, let's say you go division one and you get there, like Mark said, like you said, it might take six months and then you realize nobody cares. And then you start to feel like, well, did I only do this to fulfill this sense of

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yep.

Josh Johnston: need or purpose that I have misplaced in my physical and athletic performance.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah, we do that with the sport itself. When swimming becomes our only identity and then swimming goes away at some point, because it will, at least in most capacities, if that's all you had, you end up feeling pretty empty that when it's gone, if that was your identity. mean, that's, we could go on and on about that, but you're spot on with the division thing is like, if that's what you need to feel like you've got worth, you're going to have bigger problems down the road.

Josh Johnston: You're going to have bigger problems and you're also probably going to miss out on a lot of cool opportunities and schools that you might not even give a chance, you might not even look at because you've already ruled them not a possibility. narrowed your focus to the select number of schools or the select type of schools without considering what else might be out there. You could be missing a fantastic opportunity. And again, like I said, if you get to that place, you get to that program that you thought you wanted and you... ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah.

Josh Johnston: have misprioritized why you're really there, everything else is going to be very hollow very quickly. And it's probably not going be very fun experience for you. I knew people who struggled with that. I personally also struggled with it. I ⁓ up having a very awesome college career. I loved looking back at what I was able to do. But it took a lot of ⁓ intentional thought and

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: That's so awesome, dude.

Josh Johnston: while I was in college to make sure that I wasn't placing my worth and identity in what I was performing and how I was able to perform. Because there's always gonna be someone better than you. There's always. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah, and for you that someone was really, really, really good and probably in the same lane that you were pretty much every practice, right? You swam with Max, right? Like.

Josh Johnston: Yeah. Right. Yeah. You know, still with Max, like here I am. like, ⁓ wow. I went D1. Like I'm a freshman. I progressed really fast. I guess I blinked and I'm suddenly here. And then I look in the lane next to me and there's a four or five time NCAA champion in my events. And I'm like, and so I'm never going to be on a relay. You know, in that sense, because there's he, he's faster and that's okay. But you have to realize that. when you make those decisions that just make sure your priorities are grounded, think is the word I would use.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah, and just knowing you through the high school experience, you're a grown enough person where you were okay with that, right? Your college experience wasn't ruined because you didn't get to swim on the A relay.

Josh Johnston: No, it was not ruined, but it very easily could have been. Again, I'm a person, like I'm wired where I struggled with that. Like I had to actively ground myself and I had to actively remind myself that, you know, this is not what my priority is. My priority is this instead of my physical performance. Yes, it's important to perform and to give my best 100 % in practice and in meets. that's not what I'm.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah.

Josh Johnston: But I understood when I went to Minnesota that I wasn't going to be their star athlete, their star A finalist at conference, right? And I was, I came to terms with that, but it was an active process, right? I had to constantly do that through all four years. And I got better at it as I got older and matured, right? And that's normal, but can, it can be easy to get lost in all of that. If you're not careful.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. Absolutely. It's amazing when you hear kids go through that and you're not a kid anymore. ⁓ I knew you as a kid. Going that and they come out the other side with that beautiful perspective of everything and I'm like, that's what success to me looks like in the sport. I have no idea how fast you went in college. I barely can remember how fast you were in high school. The only reason I do is I still think you have a record up in the Delano pool. But ⁓ Yeah, I mean other than that, I ⁓ yeah, he's a brushstroker. I forgot about that. He did something. But yeah, that's good stuff. Let's go back to your own recruiting. What are one or two things ⁓ you can share that were mind-blowing to you during the process that you were like, I had no idea?

Josh Johnston: Okay. the way I learned, this is something that I only learned in hindsight, like ⁓ I was done recruiting and honest, honest, only recently, everything you do, ⁓ coaches watching, even if you don't think they're watching it. ⁓ This this is the way from swimming to your personal life, to your academics. They ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: ⁓ yes. Yeah.

Josh Johnston: When you are engaged in a college recruiting process, you as a prospective athlete are in the spotlight of these coaches, the eyes of these coaches, and they are looking at everything and they're going through your life with a fine-tooth comb. And that's not to scare you as a prospective athlete, but it's good to understand that your actions and the way that you do and live your life in and out of the pool, more likely than not, are going to get back to these coaches one way or another.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. Now. Yeah.

Josh Johnston: whether it's through your coach or whether it's through talking to your parents or whether it's talking to a peer, right? Whether it's them just watching you at practice and how you behave and how you engage with your teammates, right? It's not just about times. People get really hung up on times and only times. And that's of course a big and important factor. It has to be a piece, but coaches are looking at more than that. And they were very, very quick.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: down. It's a piece, absolutely. A lot more.

Josh Johnston: to make a decision about whether or not you are gonna be a good fit for their team culture. And I guarantee you that any college coach, if they have two athletes who are pretty similar time-wise on paper, they're gonna go and make their decision based off of who's gonna fit better in their culture. Every time.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yep. Yeah, I think one of the things that might have been the Zach conversation we had, but talking about looking at how they swim events that they normally don't swim, like middle of the season off event, do they mail it in? Or are they given a role and seeing what they can do in it? Right? They watch that stuff. They want to see that you keep trying and you're doing your best, not just like, oh, I suck at this event. I'm just going to slack off in it and just be done with it. Right.

Josh Johnston: Yeah. They're looking for people who have the character and attitude to contribute to their team and the character and attitude to get better, right? Understanding that you're not going to be the best at everything in high school. You're never going to be the best. you coachable? How do you respond to adversity when you don't have a great swim, right? How do you train and get better at the little things that may not look like much at one given time, but over the course of six months are going to add up, right?

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah, mean, throughout this whole ⁓ subject and talking to people, the term coachability, think, has come up so much. Like they want you to be coachable, not sound like you're coachable, but to actually be coachable, to be a person that will proactively seek input. when you get it, we'll think about it and make adjustments based on that and trust your coaching and trust the process. Not just saying the coachability pieces that you think will get you in the door. They'll know. They'll know if you're coachable or not. Right. And I think another thing that you point out is the conversation with your coaches. They will reach out to your club.

Josh Johnston: Yeah.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: coaches and high school coaches and have conversations before investing into you. And most coaches I know will be quite honest on those conversations too. The good and the bad.

Josh Johnston: 100%. Yep. I was getting recruited, because it was during COVID, like peak of COVID, I wasn't able to swim for quite a long time, ⁓ Like in the middle of my junior season, going into senior year, that peak recruiting area. When I finally did get back in the water, I was actually practicing with Scott ⁓ the U of ⁓ with one of my club teammates who had college potential. least had the interest of swimming college. else in that small practice group were actually go for summers that Scott was coaching. and the head coach Kelly would be on deck kind of with Scott kind of just watching supervising, not really coaching. ⁓ he wasn't allowed to coach me as a high school athlete, but he was watching ⁓ every ⁓ And I would show up ⁓ and I engaged with both my teammates and then the college summers, how I engaged with Scott, how I responded to.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yep. Sure.

Josh Johnston: feedback, Kelly was watching all of it. And I know for a fact that Kelly and Scott would talk on deck while, you know, I was swimming or while my teammate was swimming about us. And Kelly was asking him questions about what kind of swimmers are we, not just how, like, how do we train, but what kind of swimmers are we in? Like, do we show up to practice? Do we show up to the optional morning practices? Do we do lots of meets or we do only the meets that we think are important, like the big championship speedo meets, right? Those things matter. And it gives Kelly or any head coach a perspective on who this person is that they might want to invite to their program.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Excellent. Yeah, you had quite the experience going through COVID and recruiting at the same time. I mean, we all went through a lot during those years, but ⁓ can't imagine going through the recruiting process at that time. ⁓

Josh Johnston: It was wild. Yeah, my junior, my junior year was, I didn't really get fast till my junior year. And then I had the state meet my junior year high school state meet had some decently fast breakout swims week later. So I'm club state went even faster and also got to some, non high school events, like two breasts and things like that, where I excelled as well. And suddenly I was like, ⁓ wait, I could do this in college. And people were starting to ask me, like, I haven't thought about it. Well, and then we went down a week after that. that club state meet, went down to Wisconsin and Milwaukee for a speedo sectional meet. And we were about six hours into that seven hour drive when that meet canceled for COVID. And then I didn't touch water again until July. So it was like, whoa.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yep. Yeah, yeah. And then I think, and again, my memory is foggy, but didn't you have to deal with something at state your senior year, high school?

Josh Johnston: My senior year high school state, didn't compete at state. So because we had a positive COVID test on our team. Warning of prelims. ⁓ that was just. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: That's right. Yep, that's what it was. Yeah, yeah. And you weren't alone. There were some that sections in state meet that year, both boys and girls. Now boys was the weird one, then girls was also a little weird. yeah, there was a lot of those where were so-and-so. Oh, they tested positive.

Josh Johnston: Yeah. Yeah. So I was going in, I essentially spent my entire junior and senior year recruiting process with times from one short course meet. By the time I swam a long course championship meet again, like after my senior year of high school, before college, I was already committed. So.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. Yeah That's too awesome. ⁓ Let's share a little bit what kids out there can expect on some of the things you're going to focus on. And we're in the early phases here of just talking through this and what this could look like, but some potential ideas you have on how you can serve the kids of the state and help them with the recruiting process.

Josh Johnston: Wild. Wild. I've broken down my idea into kind of two phases or two different tracks. One is an information track and one is like a student athlete experience track. So the information track, what I envisioned for it, it would be either blog style or article style, editorial style.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: All right.

Josh Johnston: posts or articles that we publish once a month, twice a month about the college recruiting process, both general information, frequently asked questions, all the general knowledge that you would need to be better equipped to engage with college coaches, as well as updates about current events, things that are happening, how the landscape might be changing, any updates from house, anything like in the now that could affect you going forward. So that would be like that informational side of things. That's always a

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Sure.

Josh Johnston: Well, it's just a resource for prospective student athletes. then other half of it, ⁓ envision a tool that a student athlete or a prospective student athlete can engage with that will aid them in their college recruiting process. And what we've kind of floated is like this match.com online style of resource where a prospective student athlete might go in and build a profile, a dating profile for so to speak, for college swimming.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. Yep.

Josh Johnston: where they put, they input what they want in a school. What are they looking for all the way from the big picture things like geographic location, division, maybe all the way down to like the really small things like roster size. What kind of, what major are you looking at? Where, what schools that might have the major you're looking for all. So big wide range of things. You build this profile. And then on our end, we run it through our software and program where it can then. match you with schools that are going to be the best fit for you based off of what you have told us and what your profile says. And then you get the freedom to go swipe left, swipe right. ⁓ Is this school going to help you build a

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yep. And kind of build your college list, essentially. Like these are my perspectives based on what I know. It might not be your final list, but ⁓ yeah.

Josh Johnston: Nope, but it's a tool. then hopefully it allows for the, we touched on this earlier, but hopefully it will be a tool that allows you to look at schools that might, you might not have considered just because of a prior misconception or a prior notion that you have going into your recruiting process. And then suddenly you get a list of schools that are the best match for you. And you go, I didn't even know this school existed. And let me check it out. Right. So it's broadening your options and it's a tool for you to use.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah, and two things I think are, that's a great breakout, because the information, I think is phenomenal, because there's a lot of, I think they're valuable in some aspects, but people and groups out there that for the right price, they will guide you through the recruiting process, right? That, yeah, and it doesn't fit everybody.

Josh Johnston: it's usually a little grand.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: And it might not be the right investment and what you pay for what you get may be a little different. But that's their business model and they do that and that's great. think, you know, the standard Minnesota swim and dive price of free information is what we'll probably charge. But we'll have it out there and it won't be as buttoned up and super polished like the people that do this for their career. But we're going to give you as much as we can and we're going to use the resources that we have to make this good as possible for the gets in the state, right? ⁓ So I love that. And then the.

Josh Johnston: Absolutely. And that's our, yeah. And like I said, I just, I have this desire to give back where I leaned on so many people and there were so many people who invested into me to get me to where I ended up in my swimming career, all the way from my parents, when I was first starting out to high school coaches and teammates, to college coaches and my college teammates. Everybody played a part that made me the person that I am and got me to where I was when I finally retired. And now I want to give that back and pass on, so to speak, what I have learned in hopes that somebody out there can benefit from what I have to say or what we have to say or, you know, whatever.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah, I think we all after our swim careers kind of wrap up at some point, not right after, maybe not even a couple of years, have this reflective moment of like, you kind of see everything that you learned along the way. And then you kind of flip back and go, God, I could have benefited myself if I knew all this earlier on in the process, right? Like if I could time travel and old Mark could go visit young Mark.

Josh Johnston: I was like, no.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: I would have TP'd a lot less houses, facts. But there's I would have loved to have along the way. Not that I didn't survive, but it would have been really cool. And now that we have this opportunity, whether it in the passion for the subject in the sport ⁓ or the occasionally to invest back, it feels right to give back.

Josh Johnston: ⁓ yeah. It does. like, it's, it's a way of saying thank you, right? It almost, to me, it would feel selfish not to, not, not, not that everyone has to, but I have so much that I want to share. And when I coached high school this past year, ⁓ I got a lot of this where I was on deck with these high school kids every day. And I'm not in, in the grand scheme of things, I'm not that much older than them. You know, there was a big maturity gap, but

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. No, not at all. You're not. Yep. Now, Grace and I had this conversation last week, right? Like, there's a blurry line between whether she's their kind of friend or not. And when it's like someone my age, you know I'm not your friend. So, ⁓ but yeah. But you're right. You're roughly in the same ballpark. You speak the same language. Yep.

Josh Johnston: ⁓ yeah, yeah. Right. ⁓ It's, it's recent enough for me where I can go here, here's what my experience was. And so anyways, my point with that story was I got a lot of questions from the athletes I was coaching about college recruiting or, know, what did you do in this situation or how did you know what to do or how did you decide to do this? X, X, Y, and Z. And if, know, I'm answering it to the best that I can, but I'm like, what if there was some way that we could just give this to you guys, to everybody.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah.

Josh Johnston: And such a desire for that knowledge so many student athletes when I was coaching this past year in high school, we go, there's got to be more kids out there who want to know, who are ready and who want and are eager and are hungry for it. They just don't know where to start or it's just very, it's just daunting. And there's that sinking feeling in your stomach. remember that. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah? Well, I think also if you're not that uber elite athlete, there is a level of proactivity that you need to begin that process, right? They're not like coaches just sifting through swim cloud looking for everybody. Unless you're a top probably 100, 150, 200 athlete ⁓ the country, then maybe. But you have to start a lot of these conversations. People don't even know how to do that.

Josh Johnston: Right. And it's, it's just advocating for yourself at the end of the day and marketing. And to a 16 year old or to a 17 year old, like I was, it can be a little bit overwhelming, especially that school going on. You've got your own club meets you're worried about. You know, you're still training. You've got all your extracurriculars, right? You still have time to be a kid, so to speak, ⁓ without the added stress of trying to market yourself to all these college coaches. Right. And so.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: It is. It is. Yeah. Yep. Yeah!

Josh Johnston: It's just something that we can do to make that a little less burdensome.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: And I think help them when it comes to marketing yourself, them develop a clear picture of the full self they are and what they bring to a program. Not just I'm X and Y in these two events. Look at me, look at me. Cause we know that doesn't get you there.

Josh Johnston: Yeah. No, it doesn't. Yeah. If you have, I mean, I was pretty much only a brush stroke. I didn't really swim anything else.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Your backstroke was super legit. What are you talking about?

Josh Johnston: Bye. ⁓ if only they weren't back-to-back events. Whatever.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: You are your own first half of a medley relay.

Josh Johnston: I swam backstroke on my state high school medley really every year. But as someone, you know, when I'm looking at college, I really only get at two events, and 200 in a stroke. If that's all that I'm marketing or if that's all that I'm putting out there is I'm I'm in high school, I'm a junior in high school and I'm a 201 and a 5,500 breaststroker. And that's on the faster end of things.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Your underwaters were super amazing, right? Yep. Yep. Yeah.

Josh Johnston: Most coaches are going to look at that and they might reach out or they might see that they might, you know, their interest might peak. you to do the work ⁓ of yourself and marketing yourself as a person, ⁓ as ⁓ how, you train, what are you going to contribute to the team culture every day? How are you going to be, how are you going to lift up 30 other young men or young women on a team when you get to college? Right. College coaches care about that because they care about. their team culture. That's a very important thing for coaches. As we want to know, all right, we know we can see your times. How do you train? are your, what does your coach have to say about the way you show up in practice? What do your parents have to say about the way that you, ⁓ know, if you get lucky enough to have a home visit or something like that, how do you engage with your parents? They're looking at things like that. ⁓ so your job is to be on point in all of those areas to fill in what your times don't show about you because there's

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. Yeah. Which is a lot.

Josh Johnston: Because 55 and 201 is a dime a dozen. That's a dime a dozen, right? And if you're competing with 50 to a hundred other guys who go those times, you've got to stand out somehow.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: There's 50 of those out there, right? Yep. Yep. Absolutely. could go into SwimCloud right now and pull up those times and we could find an endless list of people that are within a half second either way of that. Easily. That's a great point. That's a great point. Before we wrap up, anything else you want to share or you want to maybe unveil anything that we're looking forward to here in the next month? I know when you and I talk, we're like, well, June 15th is kind of a big day. ⁓

Josh Johnston: June 15th is that big day. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't know, June 15th is the day that the recruiting cycle will open for the upcoming recruiting costs. if you are currently a sophomore in high school and you are going into your junior year next fall, June 15th is a big year, is a big day for you this year. If you are interested in swimming in college.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: And for those out there, can you explain what that is? So rising juniors, right? Rising juniors can.

Josh Johnston: So that's kind of our target goal to have a lot of the stuff rolling out so that these resources are available for you. And also for those of you who are entering your senior year of high school too, who have already either been involved in the college recruiting or maybe you got to your senior year and you're like, maybe I do want to swim in college. That's totally fine. And here you go, here's your resource.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yep. Yeah, it is. And I think that's another great point. And we'll kind of share some of that information. You don't have to know everything right away. You should probably start working on it. But either way, there's a place for you in the process where you can be successful.

Josh Johnston: No. And by the way, most of you have an extra year. Yes. And again, there's so many, there's so many student athletes out there in high school who their recruiting process may not start until midway through their junior year or maybe even their senior year, right? Just because that first wave of initial recruiting goes to the top 100, 200 athletes in the country. A lot more athletes under that threshold out there. patience is one. Right. And persistence is the other, right? If you don't hear back right away, or if you don't get the response you want right away, keep at it and then follow, like be, not annoying, like, don't ⁓ annoying. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. No, there's a sweet spot. There is a sweet spot for sure of being persistent, persistent, non-existent over the top, right? And we can help kind of identify the ways to get the timing right on that and the vehicles to communicate and the ways to do it and what to communicate how to say it. A lot of that goes into it, right?

Josh Johnston: Yes. Yeah. Yep. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: And sometimes coaches will, I'm not going to say ghost you, but make you wait a little bit to see if you do come back. Right? How bad do want this?

Josh Johnston: Right. Yeah. Again, this goes back to if you, if you're competing with 15 other people to get the attention of college coach at a specific program, you all have my, you might be all similar times or similar level. and the one who's reaching out two, three, four times over the course of, you know, six months or less. That stands out compared to someone who reaches out once and then doesn't really follow up. So. ⁓ in terms of marketing yourself, which is kind of what we've been talking about, that is important. And then, other thing I would say coming up to ⁓ who are looking to either start their recruiting process or continue through the recruiting process is ⁓ not ignore the significance of a long course season. think a lot of high school athletes don't put enough value ⁓ what they can do in the summertime. There's a big focus on short course swimming in the fall and winter into

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Agreed. Yeah.

Josh Johnston: the March timeframe, a lot of people get to March and finish out their championship meet in March. And it's, it's okay to take a break. Don't, don't misunderstand what I'm saying. It's okay to take a break. But the importance of swimming a long course season as a, if you want to swim in college and you want to be recruited, do not underestimate the importance of swimming a long course summer season. Okay. Training through the summer, swimming in as many long course meets as you can.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. Yeah.

Josh Johnston: Right. Not just one or two. we, and again, understand that there aren't as many long course meets in a given season as there are short course meets. But if I were going through the recruiting process again right now, and I was a junior in high school, I would swim every long course meet opportunity I could. And I would swim as many events as I could. And I remember being a junior in high school and a senior in high school and not wanting to do that because I didn't like long course. I want to swim six long course events at this meet that I, you know,

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yep. It'll kill your summer. Yeah, yay 400 IM Long Course. Woo!

Josh Johnston: But looking back, coming up on the summertime, really use the long course season to your advantage, ⁓ training wise and performance wise for sure.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yep. It can differentiate. Yeah, and I think that has to be in alignment with what you, your end goal wants to be. If you just want to go somewhere and swim, it's okay to just use summer as either an off time, a wait time, a training time, a maintenance time, although I don't think maintenance really exists in swimming. I think you're either sliding backwards or creeping forward. But just to kind of do something or make it social.

Josh Johnston: Yep. Yep.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: That's great. If you are looking towards making the upper levels of college, swimming long course has to happen. Right?

Josh Johnston: Yeah. Again, I speak from my experience, but yes, ⁓ depends on what your end goal is, for sure. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: I'm just talking to coaches. Yep. And interesting because how much longer course you swim in college, right?

Josh Johnston: Yes, I know. I remember, I remember we would have our mid-season invite every year and maybe I'm gonna get in trouble for saying that.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Probably, but that's okay. They'll sue me first and then they'll come after you.

Josh Johnston: Sue me. ⁓ yeah, year we would have our mid-season invite in, you know, beginning of December. And it's very normal to have a mid-season invite. you're in college, every college has their mid-season invite. And it's like a four day short course meet, ⁓ Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And then we would always do a Sunday long course session. So get to September and you're not swimming long course really. You might swim once or twice a week in the morning, but you're not eating long course. It's a short course season. You go all the way to December short course and then they hit you with a long course time trial. Boom. After four days, after four days of short course prelims finals, eight sessions, seven sessions.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Lock, yeah. It's the longest damn pool that exists at that time. Yeah. Well, they'll hit you with that on training trip too, right? Where you do long course in the morning and short course. ⁓

Josh Johnston: Moral was low on those, I will say that. I'm going get you that without you. can't get to the end of the part. It's going to be lot of long course on training.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: I don't know. just think there's stuff in long course you can figure out about your stroke that you don't have the ability to do in short course.

Josh Johnston: Yeah, you just don't, you don't have to think about all those turns underwaters. Not that those aren't important, right? But when you have like 50 meters of open water, you, can feel the stroke and you do, you get into a rhythm, right? You know, in short course, when you get like, when you start to like get fast and whatever, if you're at a college level, you're not taking that many strokes per length in a short pool. And so why I've always said, and I will continue to say that a short course season or a short course competition, 60 to 70 % about your underwaters, depending on what event you swim.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. Yep.

Josh Johnston: Arguably it's really turns underwaters with a little bit of something on top. Long course is very different. obviously. so ⁓ get the opportunity to think about your stroke. I'm someone who loves to count my strokes, big stroke counter. ⁓ not, everybody is, but I'm always an advocate for counting your knowing your stroke count, adjusting, tweaking and playing with your stroke count and practice. ⁓ for me ⁓ a long course pool, ⁓ that was always fun to do. Cause I got a lot, I got to get in sort of a groove and it was fun.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yep. Yeah, no, I think that's great.

Josh Johnston: But yeah, in college, you don't spend that much long course or you don't compete that much long course. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: No, but it's important to have on your resume going into the recruiting season, as I said.

Josh Johnston: Yes, they do have a long course progression for sure. But that Sunday, man. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: I can only imagine. can remember the two weeks down in Florida on training trip. I'd be like, God, I hate this stuff. Pool's so long.

Josh Johnston: Yeah. And you've had like inadequate fueling because you're racing seven sessions in four days and you've swam three or four events plus your relays. And then you get to, and they're like, ⁓ well you're going to time trial the two breasts on Sunday. that's great.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. You're like, oh, that's outstanding. Thank you. I just remember long course. takes like a week, a week to get used to the intervals in practice. You're like, oh, that doesn't seem so bad. We're doing fifties on the 40. And then you're like, oh, that's horrible. Right.

Josh Johnston: ⁓ we would, we would always do, okay. So we would start, we'd be get, when everyone would come back in September, this is in college, we would always have like a four week return to swimming program. And it was always in reverse I am order. And so we did like first week was freestyle focused. Second week was breaststroke, third week backstroke. And like our final week was a butterfly focus. And that was sort of our return to shape, return to swimming playbook. And they would hit us. We'd come back by the way, just so that, you know, I'm probably the worst flutter kicker with a board on the planet. Like, actually, like if you give me a kickboard and tell me to flutter kick on my stomach, I will be lapped by like every age group around the planet. And they would hit us like the morning practices of that first week of freestyle focus would be long course. And they would hit us with these kick sets of to flutter kick 10 fifties.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: I believe that to be true. Yeah, that's okay.

Josh Johnston: on 50, flutter kick, long course, I'm getting, ⁓ I'm getting lapped. Like I'm not making the interval. like, am I good enough to be here? Like, am I, is this like what we're supposed to be like? Yeah. And so I feel like a fool. And then get the breaststroke and then every other person except the breaststrokers gets to feel like a fool. So, you know, it always works out in the end. Right. yeah, it's no joke.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. It does. That's funny. Well, I'm excited to get this going and working out. Hopefully we'll have some stuff out there just talking. I'm like, we should just kind of open up for some questions and do another podcast where we can address some of the questions just the kids have out there in podcast format and get this thing rolling.

Josh Johnston: ⁓ yeah. Please have me back. I love to talk about myself and talk about swimming.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Who doesn't? I mean, you're talking to the guy. Well, thank you so much for today, Josh. We'll be back with a little bit more and we'll start carving out a spot on ⁓ Summit Vibe for ⁓ things ⁓ kids recruiting.

Josh Johnston: Yeah. Thanks everyone. Like, subscribe to him. Don't subscribe or like to me because I...

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Like, subscribe, whatever, do something. You can. You can.

Josh Johnston: I probably, I don't think I have any channels. I do Instagram. But that's follow and subscribe. ⁓

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Not yet. If John Barnes can have a channel, you can have a channel.

Josh Johnston: like and subscribe to Mark.

Minnesota Swim And Vibe: Alright, that will work. Alright, thanks Josh.

Josh Johnston: Thank you.