The Rescue Lab: All right. So hey, PJ Halloran. we're kicking off the rescue lab podcast. This is something I've been looking to do for a while. in my travels in the tech rescue world, I have met lots of interesting people. ⁓ love conversations about tech rescue. And this was just another way to ⁓ continue journey and document at the same time. we're starting today with Helder Ferreira. Good. That's pretty good.

Helder Ferreira: That's awesome. That is really good.

The Rescue Lab: actually a very ⁓ very close friend ⁓ who I met at the Mass Task Force ⁓ Collapse School. from I remember, Helder I was the only one that was willing to talk to you because of your accent.

Helder Ferreira: That's about right because ⁓ yeah barely anyone understands me. It's my second language, so it's really hard. So I apologize for that right away. But you are very understanding of it, so yeah.

The Rescue Lab: That I think that was just in my nature and that's how we became such good friends. ⁓ but we've known each other for quite a while and you know, we've traveled together, we've gone to conferences, we have conversations about tech rescue and about, you know, the firehouse in general. And I think oftentimes I call you and complain about things and you're nice enough to listen. So I I greatly appreciate that and you come on here. The purpose of today is you guys at and this is for ⁓ New Hampshire, you're the fire department there. ⁓ you guys had a technical rescue. ⁓ of significance and I I was very impressed by it and I wanted to document that and capture it and get your thoughts on it. so that's what our episode today is about. It's 20 feet below grade. It's the handover rope rescue. a construction worker at the bottom of a hole and the first new company realizes that this isn't going to be our regular rescue. so we're gonna talk about how the initial call out, how you got on scene and that game plan sort of changed over time. and how ⁓ went about the steps of of building the system, what you guys learned, the good, the bad, and then the takeaways overall. ⁓ but I did just want to start off talking about you first and again welcome because you have a very bare a very ⁓ background in the fire service. So if you just give us the quick, you know, recap on Helder and where you came from and how you got to Hanover, ⁓ we'd love to hear that.

Helder Ferreira: Thank you so much. ⁓ it is an honor to be the first invite in the Rescue Lab podcast and and by you. it's amazing how this ⁓ journey ⁓ between me and you has been always ⁓ a point of connection. talking about rescue, going to training. ⁓ you're a like minded ⁓ individual and I appreciate being around you and your thriving force. And I hope this podcast ⁓ really gains traction because It has a really good intention and ⁓ it's gonna expose the positive sides of rescue and the rescue world and it's gonna make it important. So thank you for doing that, PJ. And thank you for having me. ⁓ little bit about myself. I come from Portugal. I came to the United States in twenty twenty. ⁓ I have a little bit over twenty years of ⁓ fire service. ⁓ all this ⁓ rescue and the exposure to rescue disciplines started in Portugal already with structural collapse, with some

The Rescue Lab: That means a lot. Of course.

Helder Ferreira: ⁓ vehicle of rescue or car rescue staff also. I was heavily involved in the fire service, had the opportunity to go and operate ⁓ overseas for seven years, more precisely in Afghanistan, ⁓ and then had the opportunity to come to ⁓ the United States. once in the United States figured out that I had to start everything from the beginning, which I was very, very happy to, and pretty early was exposed to huge playgrounds because I did my fire one my fire two in the United States in eteks Texas AM so I was rapidly exposed to a really big playground where there's a lot of ⁓ a lot of ⁓ movement and a lot of things happening in terms of rescue with a Texas ⁓ task force and everything so it was pretty interesting for me and I knew yeah. Yes absolutely that is absolutely true and ⁓ yeah

The Rescue Lab: Now I just need to stop you. Is it true everything's bigger in Texas? Perfect. Okay. Carry on.

Helder Ferreira: I'm very happy that I I I started my journey there. it it it definitely set up my pace for success for sure. and then slowly was exposed to to ⁓ the different rescue environments, the water, the ice, ⁓ some of them in Montana also, and then came to came to New England, ⁓ pretty quickly ⁓ presented to the Vermont Task Force One, ⁓ which I'm a I am a member, I've been a member for seven years now, and we're looking into

The Rescue Lab: You are.

Helder Ferreira: really into having you ⁓ that will happen very soon. That will happen very soon. ⁓ ⁓ yeah, through through the task force I was rapidly exposed to the the rescue disciplines, structural collapse, ⁓ confined space, ⁓ rope rescue, ⁓ deployments, the water environment also, swift water, boat operator, and and there's there's it's a a really strong group of like minded individuals with an amazing leadership. ⁓

The Rescue Lab: I it'd be great. Someday.

Helder Ferreira: and and there is an opportunity to to get involved and and and work and and and express yourself in a way that I appreciate. So I really enjoy that group and then got to Hanover through the task force ⁓ got a hold of ⁓ some of the members ⁓ at the Hanover Fire Department, ⁓ friends and coworkers. And ⁓ it's it's a department that ⁓ puts a lot of thoughts and puts a lot of effort into ⁓ the rescue disciplines. So I fit it like a glove immediately right away. ⁓ so yeah, that's where I spent my career and ⁓ that's a little bit of my background and how I got here.

The Rescue Lab: So I mean obviously I was up your fire station on some other business. ⁓ that's for another podcast. but I was very impressed with your tech rescue setup, the handover fire tech rescue setup. and it seems that your members are very open to tech rescue or you're very tech rescue friendly. ⁓ how is the department with it with the training ⁓ and the the culture tech rescue?

Helder Ferreira: Yes, that is absolutely a key a key setup for the entire ⁓ environment and and how rescue and the rescue disciplines come to be in Annover. we're obviously an all Azar department. ⁓ we're a medium sized department, consider the area and the region where we where we operate. and and we we got our foot in a lot of stuff. I have some of our line officers have a saying and ⁓ they call us like the jacks of all trades, almost masters of none. we have we have our foot in the we have our foot in diving, we have swift water, we have tech rescue, we have rope, we wilderness, ⁓ all this combined also with a strong ALS program with two ambulances running also and obviously the the the fireside ⁓ with the only also to add on that with the only tower platform in the region also that gets ⁓ pulled into mutual aid a lot. ⁓

The Rescue Lab: How far you don't mind me asking, how far how far can that tower be pulled mutu in mutual aid responses?

Helder Ferreira: we've been far. We've been ⁓ we've been to neighboring neighboring communities as far south as, for example, Claremont. we have been in ⁓ just very recently on a silo fire ⁓ in Thefford, Vermont, which is probably around twenty, twenty-five minutes maybe from us. so yeah, we we we can go we we can drive we can drive far. ⁓ Another one that I'm remembering, ⁓ George Mills Senepee, which is another maybe twenty five, thirty minutes away from us, down on eighty nine, ⁓ for for ⁓ believe it was also it's also a silo or a wood a wood production facility. ⁓ paper me now, I don't think it's paper. I don't really remember what it was. I was not on that call, but ⁓ it's something related with ⁓ wood and wood production. ⁓

The Rescue Lab: Is that a paper that's a paper factory? Is that what they produce there? Okay. so you guys are very well versed in tech rescue, and that's awesome. That's what we love to hear, and that's great that, you know, you're able to be a part of that. So you called me, you know, the day after you had this elevator rescue and I was ⁓ was all pumped up for you. Obviously, you know, something that we all in the tech rescue world want to be a part of. and that's why I wanted to discuss it because I think the way you handled it. And our discussions, it was just very simple. It was to the point and it got the victim out. So going to that day, what day did that occur?

Helder Ferreira: I don't remember the date. ⁓ it was it was very recent, yeah, like on the end ⁓ in the end by the end of last year, I believe.

The Rescue Lab: It was v it was recent though, correct? So how did that day or how did that call start? You're the station, how did the dispatch come in and what was the response and you know, the the mindset getting out just getting out the door with what you had for information?

Helder Ferreira: Yeah. Yeah. So we're at the station. It's actually fortunate because it was ⁓ we were having a refresher, a refresher class, an AMT and paramedic refresher class. So there's a lot of individuals at the station engaged in in medical training. we're at the station, the call comes in, simple, coworker, fall, twenty feet, and the address. And basically that was all the information that we ⁓ obtained from ⁓ from dispatch. like with any call ⁓ gets out the door ⁓ an ambulance ⁓ right away for this type of call. It came in more framed as a a medical call. so I got out the door with a paramedic at the time, also member of the task force. So that makes you know that makes everything just like very, very easy. ⁓ Evan Evan Whitehair, ⁓ like-minded individual, super, super proficient paramedic. ⁓ and it's really it was great to to be there with him. and then that called right from the beginning with a 20 feet information. the officer on duty, ⁓ the lieutenant, the line officer on duty decided that he wanted to follow us with the engine. So we came out right away, I believe, with the engine and another another driver. and our engine holds a really great setup to initiate and and complete ⁓ a lot of rescues, a lot of rescues.

The Rescue Lab: So is that typical for your engines to carry rescue gear? Tech rescue gear? Really.

Helder Ferreira: Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. It is. Our engine, both the engine and the tower ⁓ have a complement of ⁓ rescue gear, gear towards ⁓ rope rescue, gear to ⁓ towards ⁓ rope rescue. A pretty strong complement. not a lot a lot of bells and whistles, but everything that gives you ⁓ an opportunity right away to at least get closer to the patient, whether if it's ⁓ in in elevation or ⁓ deep in a hole. get close to an individual right away with a medic or some sort of medical assistance for that individual and then start thinking on the process to ⁓ start creating the process of ⁓ extricating that patient whatever it is the situation. We do have another we do have another complement which is a trailer that brings the level of brings the level of opportunities higher with ⁓ artificial eye directionals and and more confidence of roads and more equipment for more rescuers also to be engaged in the process.

The Rescue Lab: And in everyone on the engine, are they pretty well versed in using that rescue gear or is it still sort of broken down skill wise that maybe someone on their engine how to operate or set up a system? ⁓ how's that?

Helder Ferreira: That's a great that's a great question. because of the like minded individuals, because of the rescue disciplines are so important in our for us in our department and we see value on it, there is a lot of traction from management and from line officers and older members of the department to pull new members into those disciplines. So pretty early on your yeah, pretty early on your career you start to get exposed.

The Rescue Lab: That's great.

Helder Ferreira: to ⁓ rope rescue or swift water this case we're talking about rope rescue but very very early in your process or your career with an overfire department you get exposed to ⁓ rope rescue and to add value to the calls so immediately ⁓ it's very common that within your first year you will be able to recognize the equipment, understand what the equipment does, and have a place in the operation. Even if you're not yet the technician because you didn't took the class and you're still on your first year working on your probation, you have a very strong idea of how to add value when those calls when those calls happen.

The Rescue Lab: I I wanna get too far off topic, but it I think it it invites that question is w how does the you know, you even talk about the older individuals, you know, the more veteran members. That's kind of that's not a common thing where they actually are looking to teach the newer generation anything most of the time as opposed to tech rescue. So where did that where did that discipline or where did that culture start?

Helder Ferreira: So I have a little bit over three years in the department and when I arrived there was already a culture set up in place ⁓ in relation to the rescue and the rescue disciplines. ⁓ it's part of your first year process, your provisionary year if you wanna call it, ⁓ training that relates or correlates with these ⁓ disciplines, it's of your mandatory objectives. It's part of the expectation that you know Certain things ⁓ on the first year related to that. I believe that probably over a decade ago, over a decade ago, we had a ⁓ a fire chief that came into ⁓ from different parts of the of the country, came from New York, and I I think that he brought with him a very robust thought and process about how to go with rescue and how important was rescue. it is my understanding that ⁓ Back in the day in Rochester, New York, Chief McMillan helped set up rescue companies the city and helped set up the the the rescue mindset throughout the city. And when he came to us, he brought all that. I believe there was that was being done already at the time. probably not as robust in terms of like investment in equipment and everything. And then throughout that throughout that decade, the the push was really strong and the members were on board with it and then we just started to obtain a lot of equipment. Basically we we introduced they they had the mindset, they had the culture and then they just like we need equipment and we need to get up to get a a stronghold on this.

The Rescue Lab: ⁓ I know we've talked about it, but the the importance of having a chief of the department that buys into tech rescue is obviously huge. and that is it can be a very rare thing, but the understanding of what tech rescue brings to the department and that culture brings to the department I think is super important. So that's great that you guys, you know, had that opportunity. And that obviously that obviously led to the ability to handle something like this down the line. ⁓

Helder Ferreira: Абсолютли. Absolutely. And that continues, right? That chief already retired. We got a new chief and that mindset and that that kind of like that bet on the the rescue skills and how valuable they are. And we all understand they are very low, very low frequency right incidents. They don't happen every often, although the the environment where we are, the the setup where we are, it's very prone for us to use and to have those happenings. And we have them. We have hiking trails. We have Connecticut River. we have our mutual aid partners that also have a lot of other features ⁓ and a lot of other environments. It's a very outdoor prone community where we live on. So we are we're faced into this. And then to add on to that, we have about ⁓ one one a half square mile of highly populated town area with a college that is always evolving. It never stops evolving. New buildings, ⁓ higher ⁓ always there's always something happening ⁓ and

The Rescue Lab: And that's that that's the interesting interface is you have sort of the urban tech rescue, but also match to the wilderness style tech rescue. So you guys sort of do it all, which is unique, but makes it all the more important that you understand both sides of it.

Helder Ferreira: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, we tried to do it all. We try to do it all. On that case specific was more of a a urban environment, was a ⁓ construction site at the time. we call it an elevator because we know it was basically just a pit, but we know that it's gonna be an elevator. We knew at the time there was gonna be an elevator installed on that on that specific position.

The Rescue Lab: So this is the call, so you're showing up. You know do you know you're heading to this elevator under construction?

Helder Ferreira: No, no. Like I said, we had we had an idea. There was a worker that fell about twenty feet. we are I I we go out the door like not knowing if it was below grade, if he was ⁓ in height working and fell ⁓ to ground level. Like we didn't have that information. we obtained that information ⁓ upon arrival, but bec because of the the na the twenty especially that value, the twenty feet, right? It's pretty pretty severe pretty long fall. and and that was what prompts the second the second appliance, the engine, to kind of like mm, this could be a potential like a big call. Why don't we all go and we have all hands on deck at least to to help? It was, yes, absolutely. It paid off. It paid off right away. It paid off right away, absolutely, because a lot of equipment star to come straight from straight from the engine.

The Rescue Lab: Which ended up being a smart play, right? Czol. So you get you get on scene and now you're looking at it and you see it's a construction site.

Helder Ferreira: Yeah. So immediately ⁓ we get on scene, we understand it's the construction site. There's construction workers kind of like orienting us straight to the area, to location where the the the person was. we start start I was driving the ambulance, so I always try to set up myself for success so I have a good exit. So we back up to the construction site with the ambulance. ⁓ my my ⁓ partner, ⁓ the medic, gets out of the ambulance, starts getting a lot of information out of the foreman and the construction workers. He walks into the walks into the area, recognizes what it is, and he was very, very quick to realize this is now a technical rescue.

The Rescue Lab: So exactly. Let me stop you right there. I think that's an important shift from you're in the mindset, especially coming in as a medic, you're thinking about a fall from a height of trauma. And now you walk in and that distinctive moment where, hey, this is a medical, but now this is actually a tech rescue. So what did he see that made him switch gears real quick?

Helder Ferreira: So immediately he saw that it was twenty feet below grade. by making a quick assessment, Evan was very quickly to recognize that there was no other and after a quick conversation with a foreman, Evan was quickly to recognize that there was no other access to that ⁓ area the worker was.

The Rescue Lab: So this is this is an elevator shaft under construction. And

Helder Ferreira: Yes, it's completely open. Completely open. There's no walls. The only access is a very steep ⁓ construction ladder ⁓ there was into the concrete on the top and it was going down straight to the shaft. And that's actually from where the worker fell from. He fell from the top of that ladder.

The Rescue Lab: And was he conscious, was he alert? Wha what was his state

Helder Ferreira: Yep, he was he was conscious alert. He was in severe pain but he was conscious and alert. There was no visible right away from the top, there was no visible injuries, he didn't have his helmet on. and then very quickly Evan was able to recognize there was no other access to that patient, there was no other extrication pathway possible to that patient besides coming up. So he goes on the he goes on we have procedures for this in place. Again, because it's a it's a it's a department that values this, we do have procedures in place where immediately on a scenario like this, on a day like today, like I said, there was a class going on. There's a lot of people in the firehouse. So he called what we call a general alarm. So he he informed dispatch this was now a technical rescue. ⁓ called in like a general alarm and that increased the numbers of people coming in from the station. bringing the tech rescue trailer with them, and putting also incrementing our command levels, bringing the deputy chief and the fire chief also to the to the to the the incident area. On a on ⁓ and again this happened because we have people in house and he recognizes that. If we don't have like in a normal day we don't have people in house, when we recognize something like this, we call what we call a first alarm. So we call a first alarm and that will bring all our mutual aid partners. And we all train together in rescue disciplines and we are all pretty much like minded individuals when it comes to those ⁓ those types of ⁓ work environments.

The Rescue Lab: And that's important too. I think the the regionality of tech rescue and training with your mutual partners is incredibly important because if you call them in in a situation like this and you already have those pre existing relationships, that team that team just starts to work.

Helder Ferreira: That's very unique in our state and it is ⁓ it ⁓ works in our area. It works in our region. It was already set up ⁓ way before my arrival to the department. And it's not it goes beyond the level of your department. It's like a regional culture. ⁓ And it beyond the level of just maintaining the the culture is maintained actually in different levels. So it's not only it's through training, it's through ⁓ leadership ⁓ meeting and establishing SOBs, establishing the run cards together, understanding who's going to what and when the the the the fire chiefs get together and organize themselves who's got which one is available to respond to this type of rescues when they are when they are around. it it it goes to a bigger, bigger level. We train together on a quarterly basis on on on this discipline. ⁓ example, this month is going to be our Swiftwater Swiftwater quarterly training, which is a day where everyone gets together in the water and ⁓ we create different scenarios and workstations and we have different levels of different we create workstations for different levels of ⁓ of knowledge or capability of each individual. So everyone can participate. Even the person that has no Swiftwater certifications can come in and add value by learning small steps like throwbags or yeah.

The Rescue Lab: I think that's incredibly important ⁓ because a lot of times I think when we train tech rescue, there's a lot, not say exclusion, but they're these skills are so working on such advanced stuff that it's very easy to leave out people that you're like, I hey you're not tech rescue trained, but those are the people that are gonna be backing you up. So to have them on site and actually see and understand gives them that operations level understanding ⁓ able to support you.

Helder Ferreira: Absolutely. Yeah. And it's the value of exposure also, right? Get those new members exposed to that environment and really understanding what we're doing and how we're doing it and get them excited to be part of it also and to go after those certifications and those trainings and and after that mindset.

The Rescue Lab: That's I think that's a that's an important aspect is that excitement, passing that excitement is is a key to getting them in the door to tech rescue in a train. So to spread that spread that excitement. I like that. so n when do you show up? Right after Evan and do you do you guys sort of look at each other and kind of like, hey, ⁓ is what we got.

Helder Ferreira: Absolutely. So yeah, so Evan was obviously very, very efficient with his with his basically like his window assessment pretty quickly over the radio, reporting to the dispatch what what what he had in front of him and how he was going at it and how much r resources he would need at it. And then me and him actually have a very quick conversation where his the patient he's the medic, the patient needs immediately assessment and starting probably immediately care. ⁓ so he decides he's going down, he's gonna get equipment and he's going down, he's going down through the access ladder. we kind of like looked at the ladder, understood that it was a little bit wobbly. There was some certainty that at least he could go down safely close to the patient with a first in bag. He needed more equipment. It's really funny. At that point he needed more equipment. so but we still didn't have people to more people to go down. But he needed more stuff to work and and all of a sudden I'm starting assessing the environment, right? Because you're always getting you you you need to look at what you're working, especially on a control on a construction side, that could potentially have elements on that environment that you can use for ⁓ into your advantage for to effect a rescue, right? So very quickly there was ⁓ place a two to one ⁓ a two to one system from the construction workers to get materials up and down. the shaft. ⁓ so I was like, yep, I want to use that. I'm going to start sending some medical equipment to to the medic now. And that's one of that was one of the first one of the first tasks that we we ⁓ we completed was sending equipment down through that tutu on ⁓ so the medic could start really making a proper assessment and and stabilizing and preparing that victim to ⁓ to ⁓ come up

The Rescue Lab: Perfect. Yep. I think that's an important thing too is I think sometimes we can get so wrapped up in, hey, I gotta set up the system to do this, but if it's already available, use it. And if you if you look at it and deem it to be safe and you know efficient. And I I think we get lost sometimes in setting these systems up the key component is get to the victim. And that's what we try and drive in at least on our training, like hey, we gotta make contact. We can build the rest later. Let's make contact.

Helder Ferreira: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, as long as it's safe, you know, like you make your you make your first assessment, you understand it's safe, and it's a safe environment to immediately go down, even if you put like, you know, like a quick rappel rope or something, I believe that that ⁓ it's honestly one of the best steps is trying to get contact with that victim safely and start to get thinking on the next steps, on the incoming steps to make sure you can remove that victim to what what whatever she is.

The Rescue Lab: So you okay, so you're up top now. So what is command doing at this point? Are they are they to the point where their tech rescue mindset is working, or are you sort of advising and becoming the operations?

Helder Ferreira: No, it is it is it is working right now. So right pretty quickly, like I said, right behind us, there's a lieutenant coming with the engine, Lieutenant DM and ⁓ firefighter ⁓ Cameron coming with the engine and they immediately they the engine, they went ⁓ to the right places ⁓ in the engine and they start bringing rescue equipment. So they are already on a rescue mindset. They know the medic is down there close to the patient. the lieutenant is a medic himself also, but before he put that medic hat, he put he takes all the rescue equipment necessary from the truck to effect that rescue. He starts bringing all the equipment to the area, and pretty quickly he also ⁓ make his way down ⁓ as medic made his way down the ladder to help the first medic, Evan ⁓ continuing care to that patient and stabilizing and preparing the victim to ⁓ to ⁓ exfil.

The Rescue Lab: So how far or how long do you think from call out to victim contact, how long do you think elapsed time that was?

Helder Ferreira: Ooh, that's a really good question. It was quick. It was pretty quick. So I I know that the whole the whole the the the entire call from call to hospital delivering victim at bedside ⁓ at the hospital was less than an hour. I believe it was somewhat around between forty five to fifty minutes if I'm not mistaken. I can't remember the right numbers. Yeah, yeah, and that includes the transport. Response and everything. Everything was done probably ⁓

The Rescue Lab: And that includes the transport too, you're saying.

Helder Ferreira: Yeah, pretty close to an hour on

The Rescue Lab: ⁓ so now they're down there. Are you the one assessing how we're gonna build the system?

Helder Ferreira: Yes, at that point, yes. I'm looking into the environment and trying to assess what's going on. command starts to arrive pretty close to this point. and and ⁓ other resources also. So other members of the department that were on the refresher training, they start to to arrive also. And that's one of the things that I I I wanna reiterate and I wanna highlight on this rescue. It was it was a team effort. a team effort of everyone and because of that mindset, because of the training hours that we put into it, and because of of we worked so hard to affect these rescues and to make it to make it a positive note for us that every member that came was able to be a pu ⁓ a piece, an important piece of the puzzle, of the big puzzle. Everyone added value, everyone needed ⁓ understood immediately what was their role. and how they could add value to the call. And it and this was, and it's something that I appreciate a lot in the environment where I work in the Annova Fire Department. This was independent of ranking. We had captains showing up, we had lieutenants showing up, we had chiefs and deputy chiefs showing up. They all understood pretty quickly ⁓ they could have value by setting up like deputy chiefs set up themselves as operations. fire chief set up himself a little bit backwards with a more of a safety command mindset making sure that everything was safe and communications were happening in the direction they should be happening. I remember ⁓ we wanted a high point for that rescue and we can talk more about this but we wanted a high point I had established a high point because it's a construction site right so there's I beams all over the place everything is already done perfect it was lined up like perfectly there

The Rescue Lab: Perfect, right?

Helder Ferreira: ⁓ one of our captains, Captain Loungeberry, was Yep, he's like, Elder, do you want do you want it there? It's like, Yep, that'll be perfect, Cap. ⁓ he looks around also assessing that environment, and he grabs ⁓ a ⁓ from the construction site with a construction worker, brings the band lift because it was probably maybe ten, twelve feet, ten feet, maybe ten, twelve feet, I don't remember. And it's also ⁓ in feet, so for it's really hard. I come from Europe. ⁓ he grabs the band lift.

The Rescue Lab: I know that's tough.

Helder Ferreira: ⁓ goes up on the manlift with ⁓ with ⁓ anchor points and everything to make our to make our eye directional up there and quickly quickly got up there.

The Rescue Lab: I I think that's perfect again, using using what's on scene that you know those you know the construction guys want to help. I mean, and so if you're able to use what what is there, that's and that just cuts down on time. ⁓

Helder Ferreira: Yeah. Yeah. That was key. That was key with the construction workers. So it it's very natural, right? On that work on that environment, as soon as we arrived, all the construction workers were closed too. Like they wanted to see what it is. So it was key to also at the same at a very quickly, all right, let's clear the scene, let's give space to work, but we do need a contact a contact person close to us ⁓ from the construction s from the construction sites, ⁓ because we might need you. Yeah.

The Rescue Lab: Right. I mean they're the they're the experts on site. They

Helder Ferreira: Yeah, and and they and they they helped so much. Like ⁓ so ⁓ the because it was under construction, there's no walls, there's no fall protection in place also. the only thing they had ⁓ actually let me retrace back. They had fall protection in place, but it was it was like two by fours basically just drilling ⁓ like trying to close down that fall area. and pretty quickly like I believe it was or chief or me, someone asked them if you can please just remove all this ⁓ fall protection so it clears the space so we can have the litter go up and down a little bit easier for us. And they pretty quickly one of them just grabbed their equipment and pretty quickly took everything away and then they were put away from that area. and then ⁓ two people, which was me and ⁓ Cameron, two people were put on a harness in that moment. ⁓ fall protection was put in place for both of us and we became ⁓ we became attendants on that position ⁓ and the point of contact between ⁓ the medics down with the victim and everything that it was ⁓ being set up with the anchor point and the the the the high directional and the twin the twin system that that we used.

The Rescue Lab: So you mentioned you mentioned like it's you know, the perfect anchor point setup. Was there any other constraints that you guys had to work with that rescue space that kind of worried you or was everything kinda falling into place ⁓ as it should?

Helder Ferreira: ⁓ yeah, things were falling into place as as they should. Pr it was so easy, right? Again, construction side, it was pretty easy to make a ⁓ a pretty a a good assessment and understanding this is my high directional area, my high directional point here. And I look back and there was immediately I could find or I could point really quickly what would be my anchor points also to work for everything. So it was it was kind of like it was easy. In a it was easy, ⁓ l me retrace back again. It wasn't that easy because it was cluttered, cluttered with a lot of equipment from construction, a lot of material and everything else. So pretty quickly everyone just started clearing the path for the system to travel between anchor, high directional, and down. Everyone starts to clean everything and just generating that workspace, ⁓ safe workspace, so everything could work. pretty so everything could work smoothly on the system.

The Rescue Lab: So when you when you setting up the system, you got the anchor points, what do you what did you end up going with? Just a simple two rope system with the hall field or

Helder Ferreira: Yeah, two two rope system with a hull we had enough space for a hull field between the high directional and ⁓ the high directional and the anchor. It was enough space for a hull field and and ⁓ just a quick three to one and we had enough manpower also to to multiply that.

The Rescue Lab: Okay. What did you end up using for the three to one? Do you guys use Capdos? Did you just use a Prussic employee?

Helder Ferreira: Nope, just process and pulleys, yeah. We use clutches, straps for the anchors, clutches, and then ⁓ devices and and capture devices also, and ⁓ then we just add on to pulleys. We keep it very simple. ⁓ it's something that I do appreciate also and that it goes a lot of effort. There's a couple of members that that think this things through in terms of equipment and they make a good job keeping it simple, but keeping it very effective.

The Rescue Lab: So you guys are in the process of bringing this victim up. Do you have a Stokes attendant or did you just decide to bring the victim up and the paramedics would come up?

Helder Ferreira: So at that point, at that point when the litter the system is ready, the leader is ready to descend. there's no very clear information if it's gonna be with a ⁓ litter tending or not. the litter goes down, they are still in the process of stabilizing the victim, make sure that everything is okay with their primary assessments and there's no like, you know, like life life threatening injuries. I believe at the point also they were already ⁓ in a pathway of the medical care that is pretty forward. So they were already with IV access, they already introducing pain pain management medication also. that's thing that at our level it's it's we have really good medics ⁓ that they they know what they're doing. so they they start stabilizing that victim pretty pretty quickly and making sure that ⁓ medically wise ⁓ they would be already on a good

The Rescue Lab: I mean that you brought something up right there. not only are you talking tech rescue, but you're talking treating in a tech rescue environment now. And so your medic is technically rescue trained on the task force and now he's down in the pit treating this ⁓ it.

Helder Ferreira: Yeah. Doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Evan is Evan is is amazing. And then he had the support of of Lieutenant D and then later on also with that second or that third group of people that show up, Lieutenant Mousley, which is also a medic. So that patient had three medics with him ⁓ down on the pit, making sure that ⁓ he was safe, stable and ready for our next heal. and then as soon as they had the patient packaged, ⁓ As soon as they felt that yep, we're ready, we're we're moving this, it's gonna be no attendant, no litter attendant. I believe it was at that point it was Evan that kind of like or maybe between the three of them they had quick conversation and decided, yep, it he doesn't need to, he's good, he's stable. and basically that ladder, that access ladder that I was talking was still in play, was still in game, still bolted, wobbly, but to be used. So the medics decided that they were going to come up with a ladder and basically follow the litter as they come up with a ladder. ⁓ the patient was stable enough to to ⁓ to think like that. with that said, if you needed a ⁓ a litter attendant ⁓ to come with him, I'm pretty sure that both three medics are down there are ⁓ capable and and trained to ⁓ to do so.

The Rescue Lab: So you get the victim up, he's transported to the hospital, you guys start to break down the system. You know, obviously at this point, are you able look back and obviously things went great. If you get the the victim to the the hospital under an hour, that's awesome. You're able to do field treatment in a tech rescue environment. Was there anything looking back that didn't go right that you wish you could have been like, hey, you know what? I missed that, and I wish I would have rigged that instead. Obviously, you know, but the next day these things come up, but

Helder Ferreira: Yes. No.

The Rescue Lab: What was it that you sort of walked away with on a high but was kinda like, you what, I I wish I

Helder Ferreira: Yeah. There's was so I I I through my experience on on rope rescue, especially with a ver in a vertical setting and high angle setting, ⁓ sometimes getting to the victim is not your biggest hurdle. It's actually then bringing that victim up, if you are going to do that that X field and that's your only chance. It's coming up with a victim. It's coming up, up, you know, passing those edges. passing those those those edges were r was really, really challenging. there's a first moment there, so it's two floors below, about two floors below. ⁓ but this is a like I said, a sports complex. So the floors are pretty high in ceiling. So it's two floors below. ⁓ of the medics understands that that's gonna be a challenge. So the first challenge that I we all understood it was going to happen was because where the high directional was that litter was going to literally be against the wall, right? And we we we wanted to protect that patient. So one of the first things that we did was sending ⁓ sending a ⁓ a rope, a third rope down, so they could put the rope attached to the litter and serve it as a guide. Yeah, serve it as a tagline. So it takes the litter a little bit out of the wall, one of the stay down to to execute that task.

The Rescue Lab: Eggline.

Helder Ferreira: that kind of like worked. it wasn't perfect because the space as you go in angle, right? As you go up with a litter, and you understand this for sure, as you go up in the litter, your tagline needs to go further and further out. So it creates that space. So we didn't had a lot of that option. So it was kind of like cramped. ⁓ But were it it helped. It helped specially on those first probably that first floor it helped. But one of the medics understood that challenge

The Rescue Lab: You don't have that option.

Helder Ferreira: Went straight to the floor below, got off the ladder, went to the floor below and pushed the litter with his hands to go through the the the floor or the ceiling, right? ⁓ and pushed the litter to the next stage. Right. And then the last stage was the final stage to come to the ground level. And ⁓ I'm on fall protection. The other the other fireman, the other firefighter is on fall protection also, but we are not ready to We're not ready to to go, you know, we we're not on ⁓ we're not on May on main on delay, so we cannot go past the edge to really affect that and bring that litter up. so this is where again, like-minded individuals and everyone just wants to affect a rescue, and deputy chief just looks around ⁓ and a two by four, a pretty long two by four. Guess what? We're on the construction side, there's a lot of those. So he finds a pretty long two by four that the litter, so the floor, the litter is like literally like halfway through it. So we were able to bring that two by four between the litter and the floor and lever that up and then pass the litter up. And I'm sorry, I'm using my yeah, I'm using my hands, but it's like the best way that I have to ⁓ to explain that. But yeah, super simple, nothing out of the complex, nothing

The Rescue Lab: Right, super efficient, simple. It's perfect.

Helder Ferreira: extraordinary, super simple to effect a rescue, and and that that's what you want on the environment like that, right? We've all all heard the saying common sense common sense rescue right common sense rescue so very common sense very easy and it they did it did what needed to do and that that was the that was the objective and then from that point onwards was ⁓ just doing that transfer of patient from the litter the rescue litter ⁓ into the stretcher and moving the patient into the ambulance and trying

The Rescue Lab: So it's something that that crossed my mind and I and I don't think I know would have thought about it in the moment, but you know, you're talking about this elevator shaft and you're looking down and there's no way out from down there. Do you kinda was there ever a thought of like, hey, this is now a confined space as well? Do we meter down here? Did that end up happening? Was that a a thought after, or was was there ever any thought about that?

Helder Ferreira: There was a thought about that. There was a thought about that. There was actually a a ⁓ blow a blowout heating that was happening. This is winter, New England, right up in New England. There was a ⁓ some sort of blowout heating fan down at the pit that was going on. because it was such an open air space, that that immediate thought of Of like, is there any utility here that is creating an hazardous environment for us? but because it was everything was exposed, it was an open air environment, pretty quickly that assessment was passed through. And it was like, yep, it's safe to go down there. we don't need to meter it. This is not the ⁓ exactly, it what was triggering that call and there was no exposure to any hazardous materials ⁓ at the time.

The Rescue Lab: Wasn't the mechanism of the call out anyways.

Helder Ferreira: for us. So we felt that it was pretty safe to quickly send the rescuer down and and start working with the victim. but yes, definitely that consideration was was ⁓ that consideration came in in a quick conversation.

The Rescue Lab: Yeah, no, it's a just interesting note. So all right, so the rescue's over. You know, now looking back, lessons learned, the importance of that early recognition for the technical rescue. How important is that? important it was the moment where Evan looked and said, Hey, this is a tech rescue. How did that change the course of the rest of that operation?

Helder Ferreira: A lot. Like it put all the resources, all the incoming resources, it put them all on the same switch. Everyone was on the same switch and thinking like, okay, where now I'm on the engine. Where is my rescue equipment? Here, here, here. What do I have that can affect this? So ropes coming, litters coming, bag systems are coming, like everything immediately, everything is coming without the hurdle of like the engine arrives and they go to the scene. And then they're like, Hey, you have to go back and grab the equipment, like all those things, they all that hurdle of communication was immediately surpassed by that quickly recognition, this is now a tech rescue. And everyone was on the same page.

The Rescue Lab: So it's almost that it was a size up that included the tech rescue mindset which really put that, you know, on the path of of success.

Helder Ferreira: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And he brought, like I said, brought all the resources, brought the manpower, ⁓ and and and and brought all the equipment that we needed to affect that rescue and more. Even if things got more complicated and we needed to go to plan C, ⁓ plan B or plan C, we had enough because our cache, our main cache, our trailer, our tech rescue trailer, was all brought to the scene and it was staged there in order to in order to if we needed to go plan B, plan C. we had enough tools there to think on a plan B or on a plan C.

The Rescue Lab: So training wise and I know you talked about you guys are are proficient in tech wrestling training, but how does that training ⁓ directly to the real world performance of what you guys did that day? ⁓ You were obviously prepared for it. But what are the just the the quick things that you guys do as a department that made sure that you were ready to affect that rescue?

Helder Ferreira: Yeah, the training wise the the I believe there's there is a couple of things are important for us that may that made that affecting that rescue ⁓ relevant, which is the training schedule. There is a ro a very, very intensive routine as in when you see mandatory rescue training show up on your schedule to perform this month. ⁓ ⁓ and that that means taking equipment out, putting the equipment to work, and and constantly having to practice those skills. And that's that that's like that's internal work again ⁓ made by yep, that's department wide every shift, every shift and it comes on a routine it comes on a routine schedule that is ⁓ maintained by the training captain. ⁓ and everyone has to go through has to go through through through that through those processes.

The Rescue Lab: Is that department wide? Super.

Helder Ferreira: ⁓ and then yeah, and then the other the other the other portion, there's other two portions to it. We talked about the other one, which is the regional training, right? That happens on a quarterly basis. And then the other ⁓ obviously the some of the members that belong to or work are members also of the task force, the the Vermont Task Force. another important one ⁓ is support that exists to send people away for training.

The Rescue Lab: Exactly. Huge. That's a huge I that's a whole other ⁓ we could have a whole other s you know conversation on that and I'm sure we will at some point.

Helder Ferreira: ten p Yeah. Yeah. Conversation about this. Yeah. You go you are encouraged and empowered to ⁓ go and take those trainings, ⁓ not only by the senior members or the line officers. Yep, you should go and do it. Definitely I support you. Go forward. but also ⁓ there is other systems in place to to encourage members to do that or empower members, which is Although it it it's a stipend, but it is a stipend. We have a stipend for we call it what we call a firefighter three. We have a stipend in our pace in our paychecks to to to be holding those those ⁓ those technical rescue s ⁓ skills. and that encouragement is just like always there. Like if you show up to your to your line officer and like hey I'm I'm I'm ⁓ I'm looking into obtaining you know rope rescue or swift water or dive. Right, I I'm on a dive class right now. I'm gonna start I'm gonna start diving, which I'm really excited for. the dive team is a big part of us. We're we're we're ⁓ we're ⁓ we're very unique on that aspect of of ⁓ rescue in in our region. And ⁓ I'm gonna do my my dives my first dives on a pool this month and I'm looking into into completing my public safety diving also and the department is very supportive of it and and there's always there's always a way to to make to make things happen and I appreciate that at that level. And those are the things that those are the things that affect those rescues, right? It's this it's this small things that happen in the course of like a year, two years, three years. And then when the rescue comes, it's successful, it happens well. obviously always lessons learned, but because of those things that happen consistently, consistently, that mindset.

The Rescue Lab: Yes, I I think that's consistency is the is the fuel that drives tech rescue and that's the important part that departments sort of up forgetting or lag. It's just it's it's a grind and you have to stay with it. But this is what the payoff is ⁓ that is the important thing in the end. ⁓ so if was from this just from your training in general, gaps ⁓

Helder Ferreira: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

The Rescue Lab: in tech rescue that departments may n may not realize that they have.

Helder Ferreira: Wow, that's a that's a great that's a great question. ⁓ that's that is a great question. I think from my experience departments need to really look ⁓ at their environment, right? Where they are, if it's a rural environment, if it's an urban environment, what is happening on that environment?

The Rescue Lab: Yeah. I wanted to spring that one on you.

Helder Ferreira: There's a lot of things that can drive the need for a tech rescue. Whether it's a confined space, whether it's a rescue in height, whether it's a water rescue, a dive. there is a lot of scenarios and environments that can drive that need. And if you ⁓ you do a ⁓ an assessment of of that of that environment, you will very quickly realize that maybe you should be doing something. at that level. You might not be needing to, you know, like buy half a million dollars of equipment right away, if that makes sense. But you probably might find out that there's someone maybe cutting trees in your in your area. Probably you'll find out that there is someone maybe digging trees to put new to new ⁓ utilities down the road or maybe you'll find out there's a new construction.

The Rescue Lab: Or maybe you find out that people will paraglide through your area.

Helder Ferreira: Yes. Maybe you'll find out that people paradise. That's another one that one day maybe will might may maybe one day you'll do. Yeah, those those come so risk assessments is something that ⁓ I believe me and you were actually in the in ⁓ in Indiana River Rescue and we we heard a gentleman from Wales actually talking about risk ass risk assessment. So I believe if you if through risk assessment if put if you put that

The Rescue Lab: That's a whole that's a whole other conversation we'll have on another day as well. Risk assessment.

Helder Ferreira: that in that hat, you'll find that that we'll have s you'll have some need at least to have your members trained. And if you don't have those capabilities, start working with your mutual aid partners to to find a way to to add those capabilities. And and I'm even further than that, and obviously me and you share that mindset. That the rescue mindset, the rescue competences, the rescue skills that you obtain They sharpen your members in every in every aspect of the operation, whether it's a fire, whether it's a medical, whether it's a rescue, like and in anything you do, getting your members involved in the rescue world, in the rescue competences, they ⁓ your members. They set up a mindset for success, you know.

The Rescue Lab: I think it it just drives that culture that becomes contagious, whether know it or not. and it's it helps that buy in process. ⁓

Helder Ferreira: Yeah, and like yeah, but we all we all know how it is, right? You don't this this rescue environments, they don't happen often, but right away they are they are right away they are low frequency, high risk. And I I I would I would even say that a lot of times they could potentially be low frequency, high risk, and non-discretionary time, right? Like the old gold graham lesson of risk management.

The Rescue Lab: Worse.

Helder Ferreira: Right? It's no time to think through and you will have to execute all these hard tasks in a crunch of time to effect a rescue. And if you don't train, if you don't prepare, if you if you don't have that ⁓ it won't work. It won't work. Yeah.

The Rescue Lab: Muscle memory. That's a and that's exactly it. ⁓ so just some rapid fire, some our rescue rapid fire questions. I'm gonna throw them at you. the biggest takeaway from the incident.

Helder Ferreira: Go for it. The biggest takeaway from the incident. importance ⁓ teamwork and recognizing your role in a rescue. that was for me one of the the the biggest takeaway in terms of positive takeaway. That was one of the biggest positive takeaways of this of this incident is the importance of understanding your role and coming to that scene as a piece to add value to the and just just you know like execute as I as expected. ⁓ I bel that was that was impressive to see all those members from an over fire department ⁓ with different certification levels and everyone brought value. Yeah, everyone brought value to the to event and that was that was very, very impressive. Yeah. One hundred percent quick, quick and easy, like it was it was yeah, it was it was good on that on that note.

The Rescue Lab: Just operate. Just ⁓ and the victim benefits at the end. sorry, cut you off. ⁓ piece of gear that made the difference. I venture to say it was the two by four.

Helder Ferreira: No, that's fine. I would say I would ⁓ yes, the two by four, the I beam in the exact like right spot for the high directional. So all the equipment that we didn't had, it was already there. But yeah, I I I think obviously ⁓ those small things, the two by four, the men lift idea was amazing bringing that that construction man lift thing ⁓ up to to set up the the the the high directional. I I would say If there was a day in my in my still very young career in an overfire department, ⁓ and and you know, like every week you go through the weekly checks and every week you go up the truck, up the engine, open the lock the open the the the compartments to check on the rescue equipment. And ⁓ I never got to use it and on that day we got to use it. So it it yeah. Yeah.

The Rescue Lab: But you knew you knew where it was, and more importantly, the person who was driving the engine that day or the day after, they know where that is too. I think that's ⁓

Helder Ferreira: Yeah. Yeah. For for me those dollars those dollars there on that equipment to be placed on that position and to have it to have it so readily available on scene. it was it it just paid off right away on that day. It just paid off.

The Rescue Lab: question. ⁓ training every department should prioritize.

Helder Ferreira: In terms of rescue. Wow. okay. Wow. Rescue. Yeah, rescue is so big. There's so much. I think it's important to evaluate the the the environment you're in, but I would say I would say rope rescue. Invest invest in in in giving your members rope rescue, rope rescue skills, whether operations level or technician level.

The Rescue Lab: I know I'm throwing them at you today.

Helder Ferreira: invest in giving your members rope rescue skills. they they they will come in handy for a lot of other stuff.

The Rescue Lab: spans disciplines, right? And sort of the base of what we build everything off of. ⁓ so it's super important in that sense. Well, I mean, I I know I threw a lot at you and but I I think it's important that these stories get out. And I it it's funny because a lot of the times I feel like you talk to people about tech rescue and they're like, hey, let's tell your story and guys like, Well no, I don't want to and I but I venture to say now like look, the Navy SEAL that shot bin Laden, he wrote a book.

Helder Ferreira: Yeah. Yeah.

The Rescue Lab: So I think it's okay. We can come out and discuss tech rescue and you know, just own it. I think we have to own it. And that's how the that's how the we build the culture and and we drive performance. but that's what the show is all about. real real lessons, ⁓ and rescue programs. And I think that is the the big takeaway from all this. Continue to build the rescue programs, your department, my department, anybody's department, anyone who's listening that that is somewhere in the process of either rebuilding their special ops program or they're maintaining it at the highest levels. ⁓ everybody still needs to hear these stories because this is what we all train for. and so if you're not if you're not training for this, your department's is ⁓ ⁓ left behind. ⁓ and then we have to find ways to to fix that. but I want to thank you for coming on and talking. I know a very ⁓ busy man you know pickleball and ⁓ Barnspiel and gonna be you're gonna be off to the next Winter Olympics. So, you know, we we appreciate the time of you on. Yes. ⁓ And we will talk again. ⁓ there is another story that you guys have that obviously is is of interest ⁓ and we'll discuss that. But I wanna thank you again and we'll see you at the next training.

Helder Ferreira: Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me, P J. I appreciate everything you're doing. Thank you.

The Rescue Lab: And maybe someday I'll get on the Vermont Task Force.

Helder Ferreira: That will happen.