patrick halloran: Hey, welcome to the Rescue Lab. This is the Field Notes edition. We got the the man, the myth, the legend. We got Cody here from Engine House Designs. Cody, we finally made it happen. There's been some little bit of ⁓ central standard time, east coast time. You know, we figured it out. Mostly on mostly on me, but I'll take I'll take that. Nah, it is what it is. We appreciate you coming on. ⁓ obviously the rescue lab, we know we focus on all the tech rescue side of stuff. field notes ⁓ for those who've watched that's where we we sort of get to branch out have some fun and talk to ⁓ to firefighters who are you know do their own businesses we get to branch into cool stuff and obviously you know engine house podcast engine house designs you guys are all over the place so we wanted to catch up with you we got the new hat too thank you that's ⁓ straight off the ⁓ the assembly line there from my engine house designs. But what we get kicked off, you know, before there was an engine house designs, what were you doing and where'd the idea come from? So ⁓ I mean just just being a fireman, right? Just, you know, living ⁓ the dream as I like to say it. So, you know, I work ⁓ in Memphis, which is to me is a big city because I'm from a a small town in rural Illinois, ⁓ twelve hundred people and you know, moving to Memphis there were more people that lived in my like complex area than the town I grew up in, right? So ⁓ but grew up, you know, always wanting to work in a bigger city. where you're assigned to, you know, one piece of equipment, whether you're an engine guy, truck guy, rescue guy, whatever. ⁓ I guess that's always been like my dream. ⁓ growing up in Illinois, you know, you have Chicago's kind of like your idol. You know, you see all the F D NY stuff and and that is kind of the dream. So, moved to Memphis in twenty twenty and started living the dream, like I said, and and it just that's what I was doing. That was my main focus. I was all in and ⁓ yeah, that's That was me prior to business. Yeah. And what about ⁓ what have you what have you done in your journey so far in Memphis? Where have you been stationed? You know, what are you doing now? So when you move five hundred miles to live the dream and you get assigned to a slow station, ⁓ it's a real kick in the nut. ⁓ Yeah. And I hope you don't mind I'm not terribly politically correct, but you know what? ⁓ we welcome all here in the Rescue. But no, ⁓ you know, at first I out of academy, we we kinda got shoved out of academy, right? Because that's when COVID happened and they were like, We can't have all these people in in one building sitting next to each other, so they kind of just threw us everywhere. ⁓ I got assigned to Truck Twenty, which is at station forty one. ⁓ back then it was a completely BLS piece of equipment, right? So there was there were no paramedics on it. ⁓ so it didn't take any first responder calls, any EMS calls unless they're like the pumper was out and they needed somebody. So we were making we we work what we call a set. So it's twenty four hours on and then twenty four hours off. And then by the you do that until you work three days and you have four days off after that. So in yeah, it can be confusing. That is wrong. That is confusing. Yeah, but I love it because I'm only there for twenty four hours at a time and I still can end up getting four days off in a row. ⁓ but we were at the point where we might make three runs in a set. So across three shifts. I mean it was it was terribly slow. And like I said, this was supposed to be my dream. and the guys were great, but you know, when you're in your first year, you're not thinking about the people you work with, you're thinking about the jobs that you do. And ⁓ we weren't. So I got the opportunity to transfer to station eighteen, which is where my entrepreneurial journey began. ⁓ so I'm sure we'll dive into that. But Moved to the eighteens, which is in battalion six, and battalion six is amongst like, you know, the the three or four battalions in the city that actually go to work. Nice. And so I got to get more fire experience. I got more ⁓ of the like I guess you call ⁓ fun EMS runs, ⁓ where you have to use your skills and think and and overall huh. Of course. That's what everyone wants to do. They want to work. Yeah. Absolutely. And then from there ⁓ I actually was able to transfer to one of the hottest companies in the city, definitely one of the definitely the busiest in our battalion, ⁓ which is station sixteen. And ⁓ and that led me to, you know, where I am today with with going to jobs, doing, you know, the traumas and and the really sick people and you know, it's really it it's created the the dream and the vision of what I always had in mind for my career. Yeah. Well that's I mean, I think you You nailed it on the head. You you you thought you landed the dream, which you did. It just took a couple more steps to get there. ⁓ you know, but I think that that does. You think it takes a little bit of time sometimes to get into the depths of of what we want to be doing and that's and that you probably build some other skills along the way too, which is is very helpful. Sure. ⁓ and so you mentioned, you know, that's where the entrepreneurial bug sort of bit you. So was there a moment where you're like, Hey, you know, engine house designs, I think this might actually be something, or what was like the genesis of that moment? So Actually if we go back to like high school, ⁓ I messed around with it ⁓ like you know, Photoshop was paid. I grew up in a trailer, so you know, paid applications were not something that I was you know looking up to, but there was an application called GIMP and ⁓ it was like a free Photoshop. Yep. ⁓ I think for trailer park kids. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah. But no, ⁓ It was a free version and so I messed around on that and I designed stuff and I actually I had designed some t shirts back then and it was ⁓ that's when like LMFAO was big and it was like the shirt said every day I'm truffling with two hand prints on the stomach. And ⁓ I sold the shit out of those in high school and I also was doing some like audio video stuff for like my dad's church or whatever and it kinda like I think the spark was there back then and ⁓ like had I known it maybe my life would look a lot different. But you know everything happens for a reason. No, of course. ⁓ but anyways getting out of that rabbit hole, my lieutenant at eighteens was like, you know, hey, I've been thinking about redoing our station patch. Do you know anybody that does like graphic design? I'm like, I messed around a little bit, you know, like six, seven years ago. I'd be more than happy to to pull up that program again and see what we can do. And so we ended up coming up with this patch. It's ⁓ it's a Tiger Stripe patch 'cause of the University of Memphis. And ⁓ it's still on the side of that pumper today. That's that was my very first patch that I ever created. That's cool. and I and I just liked it. I thought it was fun. ⁓ it, you know, made me helped me take that pride in where I worked and, you know, seeing it on the side of the bumper every day and and on my sleeve. ⁓ But from there, as more and more people saw it and they were like, Who who designed that? You know, I'm like, Well, I did, you know. ⁓ and they're like, Man, can you do it for us? And that's where I kind of started getting the idea of like maybe this is something I could turn into a side business because every fireman has a side business. Of course. Some some legitimate, some non. Right. Yeah. And so the engine house name, you know, where did that come from? That came from designing in the engine house. ⁓ legitimately I would I I wasn't so busy to where I would do this ⁓ at home. It was more so something I would use to kill what little bit of downtime I had at the firehouse. So ⁓ I'm doing the work in the engine house. So engine house design's just as corny as it is, that's what I came up with. I think it's it speaks exactly, it speaks right to to where it was born. And you know, what is the what is the company look like now compared to you know, what it was in the engine house at the very beginning. Sure. ⁓ dude, it's changed so much. ⁓ if if if I were to go back in time and tell myself what it would what it would become, I'd be like, no, there's no way. I'm not doing that, you know. ⁓ so back then it was it was just designs. it was just fire designs, I should say, and more so geared towards patches. ⁓ nowadays, you know, we do apparel, ⁓ we do stickers, patches, flags. ⁓ I'm actually transitioning us to more uniform solutions. So yeah, trying to get into like that space. ⁓ That's huge. Yeah. I mean we've we've been doing custom apparel now for five, six years and people really seem to like it. And so if we can take that skill that we've developed through that and apply it to some of these uniforms, ⁓ then maybe we can get, you know, I I mean, I understand policies and stuff, but maybe we can get away from the like stereotypical uniform and maybe get a little bit more customization in there, get a little bit more pride. Yeah. ⁓ because as our slogan, ignite the pride, that's our mission is to, you know, be problem solvers, ⁓ and and make people proud of where they work. Yeah. ⁓ that's a great ⁓ that fits in great with the fire service, I think. And ⁓ what was the first real big win that you were like, hey man, this thing's got legs on it? So well for me, I think So kinda transitioning into apparel, ⁓ I kept getting asked one question and that was, do you make the patches too? And I'm like, No, I just kinda design ⁓ you know. ⁓ but I told my wife, I said, We need ⁓ we need to look into this because I'm getting asked all the time, I think we're missing out on a on a whole nother side of the market here. Of course. And so we bought an embroidery machine, I got my first order of patches, and ⁓ I figured out that a very simple patch takes about an hour to stitch out. And I've got a a order of a hundred here. And I'm like, ⁓ boy, that's that's a lot of time. ⁓ that's not a very good return on investment. So that's when I started messing around with hats and and other things, right? Yeah. Well, the first time that ⁓ I really considered like a win, it's the city of Murfreesboro here in Tennessee. And ⁓ they they reached out, they said, Man, we've been seeing your hats. It was specifically it was our passport hat and they said we would love to outfit our entire department with these hats. And I was like, ⁓ great. You know, like how many stations do you have? And they're like, eleven. I was like, ⁓ all right. How many hats do you need? You know? Yeah. And they're like, We need three hundred hats. Holy crap. Wow. You know, and I'm like, I'm excited. You know, this is like the biggest order by far that we've ever done. And ⁓ but what I really considered the win was I reached out to them and I said, Hey, look, we run out of a room in our house. ⁓ we're a small family, family owned firefighter business, you know. ⁓ can we deliver these on a schedule? We'll do like two stations worth a week. ⁓ and their response was, we had no idea that y'all were a small business. Yeah. And I was like, that just like lit me up inside, like I'm doing something right, you know. It's awesome. My marketing's on point, you know, whatever. And and because I've never, ⁓ this is probably not the right approach, but I've never hired that stuff out. My web design, my marketing That's I I do all of that. You know, I took the time to research it and and I don't know if I'm doing this right, but I'm gonna do it. You know, and so for them to come back and be like, Hey, something was working. Yeah. So that was very exciting for me. No, and I think, you know, that's that's the cool part is obviously knowing that you do everything at house, like there's that genuineness behind it. And I I think that goes for anything that speaks to anything that you're passionate about. And even when I started get on here yapping like which I didn't want to do and I knew it had to be done. But I think the very early on, you know, someone said to me that it's like, hey, just stay, stay true to who you are and what you do and like just be passionate about it. And like that's I think that is just advice for anything, right? Right. ⁓ and that's you know, so that's cool. And that's ⁓ that's a that is a big win. That's a very big win. And how that order all turn out. ⁓ good. ⁓ a month later, well actually so we deliver we shipped out all but two stations and then we went It's only like an hour and a half, two hours away from here. So we actually drove over with the the last of the hats and like delivered them in person. Nice. and you know, shook their hands, took some pictures with the Chiefs or whatever. And ⁓ and then a month later they turned around and said, We'd like to keep these on stock, so let's get three hundred more. So I was like let's go. Yeah, that's awesome. That's cool. That's a good problem to have. Yeah, absolutely. And so we've kind of made that like a tradition, you know, like Like I was texting you over the last few days. ⁓ we had another customer order a hundred hats and so just off a whim, I was like, you know what? We're gonna go deliver these two. And so we drove up to Illinois, ⁓ delivered them in person, shook the hand and and said, you know, we appreciate it. Yeah, you don't you don't you don't see that a lot anymore nowadays, as we were just talking beforehand about AI ⁓ chat agents. ⁓ so that's I mean, I think that that drives a lot of you know, what people see when they look at businesses like this, especially in the firefighter side. You know, so talking about the firefighter side, how did the fire service prepare you for, you know, your journey down the road of entrepreneurship? Well, I kind of look at it as a a lot of things that I've done in life have prepared me for where I'm at now. ⁓ you know, I was I worked at a housing plant putting gusset plates on trusses. ⁓ seeing how houses are built. Obviously that helps me in building construction as a fireman. Does. ⁓ I grew up in a farm community where you do whatever it takes to to get the job done. And I was a machinist. So as far as operating, you know, with precision and understanding the importance of that, ⁓ attention to detail, stuff like that. ⁓ I believe all though I I used to believe that all of those things were a path that I was put on ⁓ you know, whether you believe in God or a higher power or whatever, ⁓ to be the best fireman that I can be, right? And ⁓ but I've learned that, you know, maybe being a fireman is one more thing that helped me be a business owner. And part of that is being a problem solver. Exactly. ⁓ you know, and and I not that I don't love being a fireman, I absolutely love it. I believe that I was put on this earth to do two things make hats and put out fires. ⁓ but I think like you s like I was saying, it all plays together. And as far as firefighting helping the business, you know, you really do learn what ⁓ servanthood is. You learn what being a servant leader is. ⁓ you learn that ⁓ in in a time of need, not everybody thinks rationally. ⁓ and you kinda have to be the calm in the storm, right? And that's that's very important as as a CEO or as a manager or whatever, that you don't let your emotions ⁓ play into your decisions. And I think that has helped me a lot. My my wife says I'm just stonehearted, but a lot of times when, you know, everything's chaotic, it's just like, no, like let's push through the bushes and see what's really going on. You know? Yeah. Yeah. And and let me roll with that for a minute because I I think you hit a good point there is on the first responder side, you know, we try to make the best decisions in and to help those people. How do you separate that sort of mentality as the CEO when you have to look at it as like a strict business decision? You know what I mean? Sure. ⁓ there have been times when, you know, customers will say, ⁓ man, you know, like it's really gonna be a hard sell trying to get firemen to pay twenty eight dollars for a T shirt. Okay. And my my answer as a because I'm a fireman, I completely understand that. ⁓ my answer as a business owner is, you know, you'd be surprised what people would pay for premium apparel. And so it's it's more so taking a step back, ⁓ not connecting emotionally as a fireman. But but staying, you know, reeled in as the business owner and saying that I believe in what I'm doing. I believe in our product and I believe that there's value here. And so let me try to present the value to you versus, you know, you allowing you to make an emotional decision on whether you should or shouldn't buy my product. Yeah. and that was really hard for me because early on we released the the blue collar line. So the sticker, the hoodie, the t shirt, the the hat. And it's ⁓ make firefighting blue collar again, right? A little spin-off of of Trump's ⁓ phrase from his first campaign. So and I had a lot of hate mail show up and it was, you know, for one it was ⁓ you know, b firefighting's always been blue collar, it's still blue collar. It's like, well, maybe from your perspective, I do a whole lot of paperwork, which is not blue collar to me. ⁓ we need to get back to the basics. We need to focus focus on the basics. When I have chiefs yelling at me about ⁓ my target solution's not being done. ⁓ but people are dying in houses and we're burning houses down, that tells me that we're maybe steering away from the blue collar. Yeah. ⁓ the other the other message that I was getting was how can you create a hat and sell a hat that says make it blue collar again ⁓ when you're charging thirty dollars for a hat? You know, blue collar workers can't achar can't afford a thirty dollar hat. I understand that. Being, you know, a blue collar worker myself ⁓ I spend a lot of time and a lot of energy in this stuff. And so if I were to sell it to you at the price that you think it should be, ⁓ I'd go out of business. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's the approach that I've had to take too. ⁓ even recently, you know, I I told a guy, I was like, Look, man, i he said, Is this the absolute best you can do? I said, Yeah, because if I were to sell you shirts at cost, then I would go out of business and I wouldn't be able to make awesome apparel for you anymore. You know? Yeah. So that's no, I see the ⁓ I see that mindset. You know, it's funny when you when you said that When I first launched my little side venture, you know, it started the rescue lab was an event. And I it the way it was priced, I thought it was a decent price for a a day out with, you know, what I was trying to make a premium day. And I've had the same I had people tell Hey, people aren't gonna pay that. And I was like, Well, this is what I think this is the only way that I will make money off the event when I'm paying so many other people, like people will either pay it or they won't. And I people showed up. My goal for that event was Just make it the best day I could possibly make it. Yeah. And, you know, that is it that's all I want to do is deliver that again, that premium product. And that's exactly I think that's exactly it. If you are trying to do that, the right people will see it. Right. Yeah. Well and that's you know, I've I mean I've learned a lot over listening to business guys, you know. I I listen to business podcasts, I listen to fire podcasts, you know, ⁓ try to learn I I don't really listen to music as much. I don't watch T V. I I'm always just trying to learn something, right? ⁓ my my wife calls me a ninety year old man 'cause if I'm watching T V it's probably like Tucker Carlson or a documentary. Yeah. but you know, a lot of ⁓ talk about that. It's it's creating value and it's you're not gonna please everybody. No. And if you try to get every customer, then you're gonna reel in some bad ones too. Of course. You know, ⁓ if you lower your prices, you're gonna get the customers that are nitpicky and you know, it doesn't matter how good your thing is, it's not good enough for them. Yeah. So No, I and that's a great point. You you will attract with those with that price point, you will attract the people that want to be there. And I think that's a a good business mentality to keep, ⁓ you know, going forward. Talking about the fire service preparing you, was there something that the fire service did not prepare you for taking on a business? ⁓ yeah. I mean there as I think like the thing that I had mentioned about how I was prepared, think those are just common things in in most whether you're an entrepreneur or an entrepreneur, ⁓ learning that, you know, you're really solving problems and helping people, that that'll prepare you for most anything in life, right? ⁓ but there's a lot of things that firefighting can't prepare you for with business because they're two can two ⁓ completely separate fields, right? Yep. ⁓ selling, I I mean I can try to sell somebody on not going to the hospital. ⁓ but I'm not trying to sell ⁓ ongoing. You know what I mean? I'm not walking door to door saying, Hey, you go to the hospital today? Sometimes they just walk up to you. Yeah. They're selling me on it. you know, or it doesn't prepare you ⁓ it doesn't always prepare you for the communication, right? Because when I'm talking to somebody, it might be the worst day of their life. ⁓ and they are very clear on what they want. ⁓ with business, you know, you might have somebody come up and say, Hey, I want some shirts. Okay, what do you have in mind? You know, well I want to I want my department logo on it. Okay. ⁓ do you have your department logo? And then they send you a picture of it from like ten feet away. You know, so it's like learning how to communicate and I guess when you're when you're in the back of an ambulance, you're you're listening, right? And you're trying to take on the problem and you're trying to solve it. And sometimes with business, you're you're listening, you're trying to figure out their problem, but you also may need to direct them. A little bit. ⁓ I guess th I mean, like I said, there's so many things, ⁓ as far as how they're different. I mean Of course. I could probably spend all day on on We'll do a we'll do a we'll do a part two on that. But it was there was there ever a point where you considered putting engine house designs down and like, hey, like I'm yeah, was there ever a point where you just were s so fed up with something early on that you were just done with it? Every week. Yeah. Every week. That's part of business, I think, is ⁓ There's at least one day a week where you're ripping all your hair out and you're going, I don't think I'm doing I don't think I'm supposed to do this or I think it's just time to hang it up. ⁓ you know, and then like the next day you're like, Okay, well I got that out of my system. You know, we'll revisit that next week. Yeah. ⁓ because business is hard. Yeah. ⁓ and I and maybe that's something that I can add to that is, you know, firefighting, EMS, whatever, the fire service as a whole, ⁓ you might get your butt kicked for twenty four hours. Uhhuh. But you go home and you take a rest. And ⁓ l y like me, I get four days off. So by the end of the four day, I'm ready to go at it again. And with business, it's every day. And it's from the time you wake up to the time you go to bed. And, you know, during the Christmas season, it's two, three hours of sleep, whether you're on the ambulance up all night or not. And, you know, now that we're Not at the Christmas season. It's still four in the morning till eleven, twelve at night. Yeah. And it's just constantly moving and it's ⁓ while I'm working on four things, I got five other people texting me and and that's not that's not the fire service, right? The fire service is I'm gonna handle this one problem. Yes. ⁓ at a time. From beginning to end. Yes. And then when I'm done with that, then I'll get given another problem and I'll solve that one and so on and so forth. And if you mess up, if the person You know, if it's a cardiac arrest and you don't get ⁓ back, or if it's a house and there's nothing you could do and it ends up being a a rubble pile, nobody hates you, right? ⁓ 'cause you tried. Yeah. But in business, if you mess up, ⁓ you can turn it into an opportunity to make it better. ⁓ or you could you could really be messed up and and be hated. So so what is was there a mistake or something that you did early on? That you you kind of screwed up in the business, but it ultimately made the company better? ⁓ I would say the very first mistake was not planning like I kind of dove in without a plan, right? And so as we as an idea would pop into my head, I would just start offering it. And so then it's like I didn't think it all the way through. ⁓ and then of course, you know, the customer knows what they want. And you're like, ⁓ I didn't even think of that. And so now you're like quick searching on the web, like, can I even do that? And so there were probably a couple instances ⁓ in the beginning where I was like, Ooh, I may have offered this and I shouldn't have, you know, or I offered this and it's gonna cost me way more than I thought it would. Yeah. ⁓ and I would say that's a huge thing too is because I think this business started off as more of like an expensive hobby. ⁓ as most businesses do, I think. Yeah. ⁓ but you don't really look at the numbers. You don't consider that to be very important because you enjoy what you're doing so much. Yeah, that's and you know now that It's me and my wife running the business. It's not that we don't enjoy it. ⁓ and it's not that we enjoy it any less even, but it's because we've grown, we have to look at those numbers. Right. And ⁓ and so therefore there's a lot more planning. There's a lot more that goes into like when we when we decided to start getting to the uniform side of things, it was like, Okay, we need to look at these numbers and decide because most of your money obviously comes from bulk orders. But the way that we set it up is I can set you up an online store where you don't have to place a book order anymore. Your guys can go on, they can order what they need when they need it. and we'll ship it right to them. So it takes the headache away from you and ⁓ it's very convenient, right? Well, if everybody's ordering one one thing at a time, you you're gonna get a rush at the in the beginning, right? 'Cause you're new and everybody wants to re up on their uniforms. But then eventually you're going to get to one hat here. One shirt there. Slim picks. And ⁓ yes. And so it's like, can we still make money doing that? So there's I I would say that's the biggest thing is there's a lot more planning that goes into which path we take, w what we're gonna offer, how we're gonna offer it, ⁓ and stuff like that. And definitely, you know, in the beginning, anytime there was an opportunity for sponsorship or partnership, it was like, Yeah, man, I'm all in. And now it's a lot more of I need to protect the thing that I've just spent six years building. And so I need to do my research. I need to figure out who this is. I need to talk to other people about who you are. ⁓ yeah. Those I th I would say those are the biggest things. Yeah, I and I totally understand and I am I coming from the side of having to ask people for sponsorships, like it is the thing I hate to do the most because I totally I 'cause I totally understand what I'm asking of that person. And it's it's the hardest thing to do, but I know, you know, when you have that right when you have that right partnership, it does make sense. And that's absolutely but yeah, you you do have to check out people and see what, you know, 'cause I'm I'm sure you've had some crazy ones. I'm sure you guys I'm sure you've you've had some really interesting requests over the past couple of years. Yes. ⁓ there was a guy that I was very excited to, you know, be the apparel producer for their for their organization. ⁓ you know, and and we have different tiers for our online stores. ⁓ but he wanted an online store for his organization and And he did the like most basic, like free plan and we make it very clear that like your your products fall in the normal production, you know, scheduling. ⁓ but he would like he'd place an order and then the next day he'd be like, Hey, so when's that gonna show up? And I'm like, Dude, yeah, ⁓ I'll push it through, you know. ⁓ I'll do what I can, but like Don't call me tomorrow. Right. And then the next day I would get another call. Dude, why are you telling people that I was calling? Why are you telling our story? Don't tell my story. I just needed that shirt. I needed that shirt. It wasn't him. It wasn't him. Yeah, it wasn't me. ⁓ you know, there's there's a lot of c of there's a lot of companies that try to reach firefighters and and try to to give that look. How did you make Engine House feel different? I'm a fireman. I I think that's honestly I think that's the biggest thing is that ⁓ you know, I am a fireman and so, you know, if you want to take the business approach, you know, I've I know what firemen are looking for. Okay. I know I know the struggles of the uniforms, I know what It makes you uncomfortable. I know the issues, right? But really in the like the connection portion, you know, being human to human, I know I know the job. I know what we go through. ⁓ and I just genuinely love the designs that we're getting sent to put on hoodies or whatever. You know, like I think I don't know if I sent you a message about it or not, but when you sent me the logo for your hat, like when when my wife finished the hat, I was like, I was stoked. I'm like, this looks so awesome. You know, and I think it's just genuinely that being a fireman, love the job, I love the custom apparel, you know, I love when people are proud of where they work and what they do and being able to translate that into something, you know, that's that's tangible. Yeah. And it gets me excited. So I really think that was the biggest thing, yeah. You know, is is I'm one of y'all and my reason for doing this isn't isn't money, you know. No, and and I think that goes back to the passion thing that we talked about. I mean, and that's cool. I mean, you know, you've been doing this for how long and you still were excited about my hat. Like that's cool. Right. Like that I think that speaks to to that. And it also speaks to, you know, so do you know Rescue Swimmer Shop, you've seen them around? Mm-hmm. So he's a Coast Guard ⁓ rescue swimmer and he's been he does apparel as well. And I spoke to him and I I asked him sort of the same question too, is he's kinda grown, you know, he's been out of the Coast Guard for a while now, still sells this his brand of clothing and as he's moved on and you know, try to grow the business a little bit, and I'll ask you the same question. How do you sort of protect the the personality and the and the authenticity of the brand as you as you grow as a business? You know what I mean? Yeah. I would say I mean the biggest thing is you just have to stay yourself. You have to you have to be true to yourself. For one, that's authentic. ⁓ and just like we were talking about, whether it's my podcast or my business, ⁓ I I just try to be myself. You know, and so and and that can be good and bad because I don't always have a filter. ⁓ so when someone gets to talking sideways and it's a customer, then I'm like, Hey, look, man, I don't need your money. ⁓ take it somewhere else. And that might not be good for business, but it's authentic. Right. But a and it's true. Like I don't need I don't need you to be my customer, right? I don't need you to be my friend. ⁓ and that's kind of the way that I just am in life. Like I I choose like I think the millennials call it protecting your peace or whatever. Yes. But like I decide who's in my life. ⁓ but yeah, I I just try to remain who I am, true to myself, you know, true north, whatever you want call it. And I think over time it can be really I don't wanna say it can be difficult, maybe for some people, but you just have to go back to the mirror every morning when you're shaving your face and go, Am I still being the guy that's in the mirror? You know, and you just have to look back at that and say, like, 'cause it's really exciting when you sell three hundred hats to Murfreesboro and they didn't know that you were a small company. Yeah. ⁓ and it could be really easy to let that inflate your ego and you say, I'm the shit, you know. but at the end of the day, who are you? You're a guy that puts his pants on one leg at a time just like everybody else. You wear black leather boots just like everybody else, you know, you wear the navy T shirt just like everybody else, and guess what? When you go to a house fire, you're gonna be Soaking wet, you're gonna be hot, you're gonna be tired, just like everybody else. And I try to apply that to every aspect of my life. And when I sit there and I go, you know, I've been working 18 hour days on the business, and I'm like, how do people do this? You know, how do other people do this? And I how do I have time for my kids? And how do I you know? And then I sit there and I go, Well, somebody else has it worse than me, and so and that same person is doing it better than I am. Yeah. So what do I need to do to to fix this? Yeah. No, I think you're I think you hit it right on the head. And in that I think the biggest thing is probably not more protecting the brand, the authenticity, it's staying humble in that same sense. And, you know, and again, every day remembering where you can't where you came from, where you're trying to go, you know, in the journey that it's taken to get there. And that's ⁓ I that's probably hard for some people and that's where they lose their way and that's where things start ⁓ you know, maybe maybe in the business sense, quality starts to drop. Yeah. You take you take shortcuts. ⁓ well you kinda you kind of start to get this sense that like people deserve your attention or people deserve your product. No. I I'm undeser or like you deserve them as a customer. You know, no, I've I've always taken the approach and I my wife and I had this conversation when we started dating. I said if I ever get the mindset that I deserve you, that's when things are gonna go south. And so every day in my life I remind myself that I'm undeserving of the life that I have. ⁓ and then I've got more work to do. And I really do believe that if you just humble yourself every day and just understand that I've got to be the hardest worker, I've got to do all the things right, I've got to have integrity, those are three family disciplines honesty, integrity, discipline. If you can humble yourself and do your best in those three aspects every day, it doesn't matter if you're a business owner, doesn't matter if you're a car salesman, fireman, or a lonely paramedic, ⁓ you you'll be the best. As long as you keep yourself to that. But can I ⁓ go back to something you spoke to earlier and I think is is something that's lost in in firefighting today or we are losing it, is the servant leadership or the servant, you know, the public servant. And I think there's a there's a gap where people don't realize that hey, you are there to serve the public. And that's something that that I try and remember and that hey, that's the whole reason you have a job, right? Yeah, people people complain and is it's become one of those things that like Some people use it as a tagline and I you know, you can tell the people who do and don't understand, but like it is the key to the job. And the minute you lose that mentality, you you know, you've lost you've lost the battle. Yeah. ⁓ no, I I mean I agree a hundred percent. And it's not easy, right? It's it's way more easy to get upset about the toe pain at two in the morning. Yes. That's been bothering them for six months. Right. We've all been there and ⁓ I've been there. I've been very upset about people like that, you know. Of course. ⁓ that's nothing wr I don't think there's anything wrong with being upset about it. Right. But you know, it's just do you I guess do you carry that mentality? What you know, what is it being jaded? Is it you know, what is it that that makes you turn that corner? Yeah, I guess. Yeah. I mean and and I'll give you the I I never really understood it either, right? Because I've always had this mentality of somebody's got it worse. ⁓ it's my job to take ⁓ to the hospital whether I think they need to go or not. ⁓ but there was one night ⁓ before I was a paramedic, the medic I was riding with, we made a shooting. And the it was a grandmother, a mom, and a granddaughter. So you had all three generations there. Yeah. And they were coming back from a family reunion, stopped at a red light, and then when the light turned green, a car pulled up to them, started shooting. So completely unsolicited, just reckless violence, right? And the grandmother ended up dying. ⁓ that's who we were taking care of. And so we went through this thing of like this this lady that was undeserving, you know, we did everything we could, she died, and then we got back, we washed off the stretcher, got in service, and immediately we go to abdominal pain. And it's you know, it's a homeless guy and it's cold out and he doesn't want to be out in the cold. So he uses the excuse of abdominal pain. And the medic that I was with was so upset, like furious at this guy. And I kind of felt it a little bit too. But I think that's where you go I think that's where it can bite you is you go from trying so hard to save someone's life who doesn't deserve the situation they're in to having to fake kindness. Yeah. You know, or I I won't even say fake it, but trying to genuinely serve this person who doesn't need it. No, of course. Yes. You know, and you don't know at the time that this guy's holding you up, the same situation that you just came from could be happening a block away. Right. And you're needed over there. Yeah. I'm not needed here. You know, and I think that I think just years and years of situations like that is what gets those guys jaded, you know. No, that's very well said. That's very well said. ⁓ and I think, you know, that's up to that's on a crew too, to sort of keep each other in check. Yeah. At those moments. And I I was just having this conversation with a with another firefighter we were talking about, even at like those two AM calls when like, I'm pissed off. I you know, you just want to go back to bed. Yeah. I always try and crack a joke with the guys in the truck. Just keep it light. Just try and keep it light. Yeah. ⁓ because, you know, you're there with them, you're all there for the same reason. And that's it's just trying to keep each other, you know, sort of centered that moment. That two AM that two AM moment. back back to back to the business. What is something that you do that you think customers see as very easy, but it's actually super super difficult behind the scenes? I think most I think it's that way for most things, business. ⁓ one thing in particular, maybe I would say they probably think the production side of things is easier than it is. Yeah. ⁓ and and I feel comfortable saying that because I know there's things that I take for granted from other businesses. Where it's like, well, can't you just do this? ⁓ and it's like, no. And I'm starting to understand that now as a business owner. ⁓ I would say the production side of things, because a lot of times I'll get asked, you know, can you just make one patch? And it's like, No, because what you don't understand is that we have to stop what we're doing to make one single patch and then pick up yeah, I mean it interrupts things. Yeah. ⁓ and I would say the other thing that people don't understand completely is the design. side of things. ⁓ so you'll go through all this time of of designing, you know, the Hulk and he's holding ⁓ a New York hook and a a saw or whatever, and they'll come back and say, ⁓ well, can you change his pose? And it's not yeah, it's not ⁓ there's no way for me to just drag his leg right and reshape, you know, the his stance. I have to redraw all those lines. Now, if you want his clothes to be, you know, orange instead of purple, then that's a click of a button. ⁓ but I really don't think very many people understand the actual like like you're you're redrawing those lines. Yeah, it's crazy. And that takes so much time, you know. Yeah. ⁓ those are probably the two biggest things. Wait, you ⁓ what do you mean? It's not ⁓ engine house prime, I can't get it in two days delivered to my door. No. But I do really enjoy it when people send me AI photos and say, Can you make a design out of this? And I'm like, Absolutely. That is too easy. So that's it. Didn't I send you a a perfectly ⁓ cropped AI design? I think so. Yeah, maybe not. I don't know. We'll we'll tell that story anyways. Yeah. ⁓ so you know, you got the business going and now you start a podcast. You know, what made you decide that the company needed a microphone too? ⁓ gosh. So I'm like you, I didn't want to do it. It's it's terrifying. Yes. I am not, I don't want my face out there. I don't want to talk to people. I hate my voice. You know, all the excuses that we all use as men. ⁓ but my wife, you know, I'm like really trying to figure out how do we grow, how do we get more attention, how do we get more engagement. Yeah. And my wife was like, You need to get on the internet. You need to get on social media. I'm like, I'm on social media, what do you mean? You know, like I post a picture every day. And she's like, No, you need to get on social media. So I ⁓ I made a video talking about the business. And because I am the way I am, like I if I'm gonna make videos about the business, I wanna have the nice microphone, I want to have the nice camera, you know, I wanna look I want it to look nice, right? It does. It absolutely does. Yeah. Thank you. And so I made a video about the business and our engagement like tripled in like the first week. And I was like, Okay, maybe she's on to something, you know. I I like she put it on the calendar. Aaron was right, you know. And ⁓ And now it's framed. Right, yeah. Yeah. So From there made another video, made another video. People are starting to comment, you know, when's the podcast coming? When's the pod and I'm like, I'm not doing a podcast. I'm not doing it. ⁓ I'm not a podcaster. And then a month later I became a podcaster. So That's that's perfect. Now was it you know, it started as the intentions to support the business, but did you when did you sort of realize it was it was gaining its own identity? ⁓ I guess as more people started asking And we started getting more engagement on on the videos. And then I had also been on the Copper State Fireman podcast and I realized just how easy it actually was. ⁓ and I actually really enjoyed sitting there talking to him, answering his questions, and I was like, you know what? I've already got the equipment. ⁓ and I was like, This is actually a really good way to spread word about my business. Yeah. ⁓ if I just do like a quick little promo in the beginning of every episode. And so I was like, Yeah, I'm just gonna I'm gonna do it. I'm called the engine house. I'm gonna start a podcast. ⁓ it's and you know, and like I still I'm making excuses like it's only to promote the business, you know. And ⁓ it's not gonna be fun at all. I'm gonna hate it. Yeah. and even even guys were like, you know, you can't you can't say that on your podcast. And I was like, I hope they cancel it, you know. Let ⁓ come. ⁓ So I don't to do this anymore. But yeah, you know, now sorry guys, we got shut down. Yeah, but now I mean, now I'm having fun with it and and like you said, ⁓ being authentic with it. In the first couple episodes, I tried to make it like this organized show and I had notes where I was like, At this at this minute point we're gonna be here and it's just it doesn't work out like that. No, it's not real, man. And and you can tell, you know, but once I actually let go of that, like three episodes in and I just started talking to people like this and it became more fun. The the audience came and I mean it's been a lot of fun. Yeah. And I mean I could s I could say the same on my side. Like I've I've I've only been doing it a couple months and again, yeah, same mentality. I was like, I I dread getting on there. But the the good that has come out of it has far outweighed any of the negative stuff and just the people I've been able to talk to and the conversations I've been able to have in that time frame. Like I think for me have been personally fulfilling and it was sort of something I was missing and kind of what maybe I was looking for in the reason, you know, ⁓ starting it out in the first place, I guess. ⁓ so it's been it's been good. It's been very good. And if I can, I'll throw a little shameless plug in there. ⁓ the Til Valhalla project. Yes. So after like a few months of me doing the podcast, ⁓ a a girl that I reached or girl reached out to me that I knew and she was like, Hey, you know, I work with the affiliates of the Til Valhalla project. And ⁓ she's like, We really like your your show. ⁓ I actually had her husband on the show and ⁓ she's like, I would love if you would be an affiliate and promote T V P through your show. I was like, Yeah, whatever, you know. And ⁓ to this day we've raised over thirty two thousand dollars for Til Vahala and I and that's just another thing where it's like you never know what you're gonna be able to do. Yes. And ⁓ you know, I get paid commission, but I don't care about that. Yeah. You know, as long as that top number keeps growing and we can do as much as we can for them, ⁓ that makes it worth it. Yeah. And I think that's the one good thing we know we didn't touch on about on the business side is so I do the podcast. I also did like I got into because I love I love tech rescue and like I love I was like, if I can help another department like with their tech rescue program, like that's great. And I actually got to sit down with the department. And they're like, well, you what are you gonna charge us? And I was like, Well, look, I was like, I'm very lucky in the sense that I have healthcare, you know, I have a full time job. Like this is ⁓ this is a passion. Like of course I'd like to make some money, but like it this the chance the fact that I get to do this, yeah, is like to me it's like unbelievable. Right. It's it's so it's the coolest thing in the world and like being able to take that passion and turn it into something that, yeah, we'll make you some money, like what a blessing. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what I tell people too, like, you know, do I need the business? No. ⁓ I'm a little far into it to just get rid of it 'cause I kinda really enjoy the business. But at the same time, you know, I really love doing the podcast. So ⁓ you know, I always I mentioned in there too where it's like if you enjoy the show, like the business supports the show. So, you know, if you want to support the show, you can buy the business or you could do the cheap thing and and share it with somebody. Right. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. ⁓ yeah, I mean it's and now like I don't know if you know Samson De Sessa, he was on one of my episodes. Name sounds funny. But he mentioned, you know, his dad always said if you if you have the ⁓ what do you it was if you have a way to do something, you have a responsibility to do something, essentially is what he's saying. So and you know, I have a platform and so therefore to some sense I have a responsibility to, you know, share the word on certain topics is the way I've always taken it. No, that that's a fair that's a fair point. ⁓ and it's almost like with great power comes great responsibility. Right. Which is told to Spider Man. Right. ⁓ for those who don't know. ⁓ yeah, what do you think's been harder? Building the audience or building the the customer base for the business? ⁓ the customer base for sure. Yeah? For sure. ⁓ I can get I can if I really wanted to go viral, I could go on here and say some off the wall shit. People would yeah, people would eat it up. ⁓ if I get on my business profile and say some off the wall shit, then everybody's gonna run and be like, ⁓ I don't know if we should buy from him. Yeah. That's a funny point. Yeah. Yeah, that's where if you see it here, people will run to the website to go buy stuff. Yeah, same person. ⁓ exact yeah, it's it's a different Two different identities, I guess. You know, but it's like duality. Yeah. But I mean I guess there's little to no investment for the for the viewer, but there's a big investment to the customer, even if they're the same person. ⁓ their identity switches between going to YouTube and going to engine house designs dot com. You know. ⁓ yeah. I would say it's way easier to get viewers than it is customers. Well, if you want to say crazy stuff, do it now. So it gives me a ball. I don't I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, well let me tell ⁓ tell you about American politics real quick. here we go. All right. ⁓ so you know, you you talk to a lot of firefighters, you talk to a lot of people. Has interviewing other firefighters changed the way you think about the fire service? ⁓ yeah, I would I would say even through periods of my career, ⁓ negatively, you know, you you get around that sour guy and you start to think that, you know, the world's falling apart and and, you know, screw this and why am I even doing this? ⁓ but I always go back to the guys early on and even some guys I know now that have had like the positive impact. And it always goes back to that. ⁓ you know, first and foremost, I signed up to do this. ⁓ I chose this job. I wasn't drafted into the fire service. I'm not enslaved to the fire service. So at any day I could hang it up and I could go home and never do it again. If ⁓ if it's that bad, I don't ever have to do it. Some people should. Right. Yeah. And I think it's because they they have this mentality of like almost like they're indebted to it. You know, and like it's so horrible, but they won't give it up. Yeah, I know. It's so bad, like why do you show up? You can do whatever you want, man. You can go flip burgers if you want. ⁓ but and then also just, you know, keeping that mindset of being a servant. You know, I've had a I've had a lot of guys who their first intention when you walk in the house is to talk somebody out of going to the hospital. And I've had other people where it's like, if I don't take them, I'm gonna take somebody else. You know. ⁓ we've had I've worked with fire companies that ⁓ none that I've been assigned to, but I've worked with them on scene where It's ⁓ destroy everything and you know, be reckless and be careless and and I've had other people that intentionally with not you know, the fire is under control. ⁓ but it's like, hey, shut the nozzle off for a minute. Yeah. Like the fire's not going anywhere. It's not in ⁓ it's not of any danger. I know it's not completely out, but let's get this stuff out of here before we completely ruin all their Christmas gifts or family pictures, you know. Yeah, and I think everyone laughs at the salvage, you know, ongoing salvage. During a f a call, but like w the amount of times that like we've pulled like a picture or like a nursing degree off a wall and like the people are like so genuinely like taken aback and like, you know, crying because they're so happy, like you're like, ⁓ my god, like just one small thing. And you brought one percent of what's left, you know, and and that makes their whole day because I don't know if you've ever put yourself in their shoes mentally, but like think about what that would be. If your entire house was gone. That's wild. You know, everything you own gone. ⁓ it's yeah. Yeah, and I and I I think w that kinda maybe that kinda gets lost on us, you know, as firefighters, like, you know, we're so into the response in the job of like taking exactly taking that extra moment to be like everything. Everything is gone. Right. You know, and you get that one family picture back. You know, what does that what does that mean to you? Right. ⁓ that's that's something to think about. ⁓ and I I I think too, like, probably to the younger generation and the fire service as a whole, nationwide is so young. ⁓ but we don't think about pictures the same way, right? Because what we have ⁓ on our phones, we've got ⁓ on Facebook. ⁓ but a lot of times when you make a fire, at least for us, ⁓ it's an older house. And it's sometimes it's an older couple. And to them, like, pictures mean ten times more than they'll ever mean to us. So yeah, it's just it's the little things. Yeah, absolutely. And that's a good That is a good concept that, you know, society is changing and, you know, there's different sentimentalities, I guess, to to different people, right? ⁓ and that that changes. And that's something we have to think about on the fire service too. ⁓ T you're you know, we're talking about honest conversations. You were talking talking crazy on podcasts and stuff. Yeah. How how do you balance because you know you you like the zero filter sort of mentality, right? How do you how do you balance having those honest conversations but also running a brand that, you know, you have to pay attention to customers and You have to pay attention to partners and relationships within i the industry. ⁓ well, like I said, I I I'm a big believer in if I care about you, I'm gonna tell you the truth. ⁓ even if it might hurt your feelings. And ⁓ and as I mentioned, like I'm I decide who's who I give my attention to. I decide, you know, who gets to give their attention to me and and I think that's one way that I'm a protector of myself, my wife, and my kids. Yeah. ⁓ and when it comes to business, ⁓ it can I guess it could be tricky. Yeah. ⁓ if you're if you're kind of an abrasive person by nature or if you're a hothead or or whatever. ⁓ but I also am I was raised to be respectful. And ⁓ and I think that is always the first side of things that I show. And so I I don't know. I l I like to think it's kind of like It's kinda like a multi tool. You know, if I need the toothpick, I got the toothpick. If I need the pliers, I the pliers. Yeah. ⁓ so anytime, you know, we're dealing with customers or a potential client or, you know, a partner or whatever, ⁓ you know, by nature I'm always leading with that respectfulness. I'm I'm open to what you're saying, I'm listening. Yeah. I I and I think personally to my to a fault like to a a fault of my own sometimes, you know, like and that's that can be hard. Yeah. But if you cross the line in the sand ⁓ I might put the scissors away and get the knife out. Yes. The serrated one. Right. But I I mean that's just and it's it's hard to to pull that out of me. ⁓ I mean, you really have to like insult my family or something. ⁓ and it's and really I don't think I've ever gotten to that point with with anybody on on the podcast or in business where it's been like, you know what? Hey, fuck you. ⁓ we're not doing this. You know what I mean? ⁓ there was there was a guy that I had on and he was sharing some pretty vulnerable stuff about, you know, his his career path and some stuff in life and and he's like, you know, he's kind of breaking down. He's Man, I'm so sorry and and I was like, you know what? I don't really care. I said, You're sharing real shit. And if anybody comes on these comments and wants to say some off the wall shit, like I'll block them, I'll block their brother, you know, I I don't care. We don't we're not gonna do that here. Yeah. ⁓ this guy is, you know brave enough to share these stories on my podcast, we're not gonna tear ⁓ down. Of course. ⁓ I think that's probably the closest I've ever come to to having to be that way. But ⁓ I just don't play those games. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, I understand. ⁓ yeah, five years from now, is Engine House an apparel design company that happens to have a podcast, or do you think there's something much more broader, you know, in the in the wigs? see what I can share with you. Yeah. feel like that's the business appropriate answer. Yeah, that is it it's actually very CEO of you. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ you know. Gotta sit all proper. ⁓ get all straightened up. Yeah. Like I said, we're ⁓ we're trying to grow. ⁓ that's we're in the scale phase right now. ⁓ I'd really like to start serving, you know, more fire departments instead of firefighters. ⁓ we will always have no matter where this business goes, we will always have the custom ⁓ apparel side. We'll always have design services. ⁓ but I'm really trying to scale the side of the uniform solutions and just take, like I said in the beginning, those skills that we've learned with custom apparel and apply that to a more uniform thing. So, you know, and cr instead of creating, you know, one badass jacket, now we're out and fitting the entire department with with badass jackets. And that's huge. And just like, you know, like I said, it's our mission. I I want everybody to be proud of where they work and ⁓ taking some of these Because I believe, and this is just my opinion, there's like zero science that backs this up, but I think if you take a guy who looks at the fire service as a job, ⁓ and he shows up to work and he wears the same job shirt as everybody else, that has the same standard issue patch, fire department patch on the sleeve as everybody else, ⁓ you know, you may get a mediocre to really slaw employee out of that person. But if you allow him to design a custom patch for his station that he's proud of. And you allow him to put that on the sleeve and next thing you know the decal's on the side of the pumper and he's got a hat with the number, you know, engine, you know, forty nine or four eighty two or whatever, ⁓ that guy starts to take pride in where he works and when he gets around guys that are, you know, like just badass, you know, firefighting devil dogs and they're like, ⁓ man, engine four eighty two, pfft, you know, and it it might spark a little something in him that says, Hey, we need to be better or we need to do our best. I mean you you're you're talking about building culture. Yeah. And that's that's what it is. I want people to be proud of where they work, no matter where it is. Yeah, that's cool. I mean, and yeah, I I I everyone talks about culture, but it is it ⁓ drives it drives an organization. It and it's it's something that you know the fire service desperately needs and I I think we've we've lost some of that, but those are great steps in building that culture. I think it leads to an identity, you know, when you put that patch on and and people get behind that, they rally behind that and you could build you could build something off that. Yeah. There was a you know, talking about skating the line of of right and wrong, ⁓ there was a department and I won't name names, but they ordered like three hundred patches, right? For for like three different stations. And then in the midst of production, they ha they reached out and they were like, hey, yeah, I hate to do this, ⁓ but we need to cancel our order because we actually the policy new policy came out, we're not allowed to have custom patches anymore. And I'm like, I'm so fired up. Not because they canceled the order. I'm fired up because who does that? Yeah. Who says you're a way to kill ⁓ Yeah. So I had refunded their money and I sent them the patches anyways. I said, you could do what you want with these, but y'all deserve ⁓ So, you know, here you go. Well yeah and talking about building out teams and building that culture, you know, on your side, even at your department, if you're building out a team What what matters more initially? Do you think it's more of that ability or that work ethic? ⁓ I think work ethic is definitely more important. ⁓ you can teach skills. So, but if you can't if a person doesn't understand ⁓ work or if they don't have work ethic, it's really kind of hard to change the mentality there. ⁓ but you can definitely teach ⁓ to do just about anything, especially if they have the work ethic. Yeah, I mean that's it's it's it is a hard it's a hard nut to crack. Whatever. Yeah, I know, egg to crack, what the hell's it saying? Why can't I I think it's hard not to crack it. Yeah. I'm actually gonna leave this in. I like this. ⁓ but yeah, it how do you get that one guy in the department that just i and it it's still mind boggling to me is like I came from the army and like, you know, that you you work and you do your job, but like, how can you show up and not want to do your job? It doesn't make any sense. Yeah. It doesn't it doesn't make any sense. Yeah. It still boggles the mind. And and how do you change that? You know, like I've I've tried a lot of things. I I'm a I'm one of the more senior guys where I'm assigned and I'm also a field training officer for New Paramedics, so I'm in the position a lot to deal with newer guys. And, you know, on occasion, probably more often than I'd like, you have guys like that where they just don't care. And ⁓ you you kind of try to give ⁓ little things to to create buy in, ⁓ and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. ⁓ you try to you try to take the approach of, Hey man, what do you think is going good? What do you think could be better? What's frustrating you? You know, just just asking questions. And ⁓ you're right, there's some people that they just won't bite. And you're and you're like I don't know. I don't know. And I feel and as a as a leader, as a you know, captain of the fire service, like to me, who in someone who's vested, like that fe it makes me feel like a failure in that sense. Yeah. Because I I I couldn't reach that person. And I've had to come with the to the terms that like not everyone's gonna be Not everyone's gonna be in that lane that first I want them to be, but also not everyone's gonna take the job as seriously as y ⁓ I want to be. So that's it and that's something hard that I've had to that was a hard lesson early on for me. Yeah, for sure. And and talking about lessons, what from the business side, what was a a good leadership lesson that you learned about running a business that you wish you learned earlier on? ⁓ man. ⁓ so really wasn't till recently my wife, you know, joined in as as like an official partner or you know, really jumped in as part of the business and because you know in the beginning if we'd get super busy she would help whatever, help get caught up. ⁓ but most recently she's like fully in working forty hours a week. And, you know, I I don't know that I ever saw myself as the boss. ⁓ but, you know, CEO versus COO or production manager, whatever you want to call her, ⁓ it was like, you know, I'm I'm the top of the pyramid. So like I'm I need this to get done or why isn't this getting done or you know, and and that's not leadership, that's being a boss. Yeah. ⁓ and I had to learn that and it it wasn't on my own that I learned that. I had a lot of people that talked me through that and coached me through that and and it's more about what can I do for you? You know, like I said, asking those same questions. What's frustrating you? ⁓ how can I make it better? ⁓ what are you struggling with this week? What can I do to help? ⁓ and I think that's that is something that I've had to learn. And it that's actually, you know, we talked about how did the fire service help me with my business. That helped me being a being a better fireman. ⁓ cause now I can do that with the new guy at the station. Yeah. ⁓ because I'm on we're on the same level. I'm not his driver, I'm not his lieutenant, ⁓ I'm not his chief. I'm a fireman, just like he is. And so, and I think it's perceived a lot better when you're on the same, when you're eye to eye. And it's like, hey man, I noticed that this is going on, so l let's talk about it. You know, why do you think that's happening? How can we make it better? That you know, that's a good lesson for CEOs to listen to. Yeah. You know, real CEOs, like that's that's those those lessons going the other way. ⁓ small businesses, you know, they often have to they survive because they have to adapt. What do you think a fire department can learn from that from a small business? Be open to change. ⁓ that can be hard. Yes, it can. And And you know, we I mean, we're a we're a city. We deal all the city politics, all the issues that come with that, ⁓ as a lot of them a lot of them do. And I think a lot of times you whether it's business or the fire department, sometimes you see, you know, the bleeding hole and you just slap something on it to stop the bleeding. ⁓ but if you don't go inside and do surgery, then you're never gonna fix it. And this was something that I actually had to do recently with my business. ⁓ Because we made a lot of money last year and we spent a lot of money last year. and, you know, looking back, actually I read the book Profit First, and it completely changes your view on how your business runs financially. And and that was important to me because it was like, Okay, I'm doing it the traditional way, ⁓ but I'm also not really profitable. Yeah. And then you listen to podcasts or you read forums and they say, Well, you're not really gonna be profitable until you do this for like a decade. And it's like this book was like, No, that's not true. you could do it if you do it this way. And so we've done that and it's allowed us to be profitable and and you know, now we're in the position where we can scale and do these things. ⁓ but I think the same is true with with fire departments. It's stop looking at the way everybody else is doing it. Yeah. Think about don't think about the problem. Think about what caused the problem. Yeah. And think about what caused that cause. You know. ⁓ and that's and that's independent to each department too. I mean Yes. Yes. You know, and and that's the thing is we've we ⁓ I don't even know if I should share this. I don't even just leave it. I don't care. ⁓ I'll block everyone in the comments. Yeah. But you know, we have an issue where we've had a lot more accidents. ⁓ you know, and then the the initial thing is They came and took all of our garage door openers because guys are hitting garage doors. Dude, we have the same problem. Yes. Yes. So it's like, okay, so you slapped a band-aid on it by taking the garage door openers. Yeah. ⁓ there's still a possibility that we hit garage doors, by the way. ⁓ but you need to look at you've spent over a million dollars this year in wrecked fire equipment. Okay. How much of that is the the citizens hitting fire trucks? ⁓ it's probably a small percentage. But then How many out of ranked drivers do you have when the c accidents are caused? ⁓ a lot. Okay, so ⁓ why is that the case? ⁓ we're hiring young people. Okay. And this is a discussion that I had with the chief and she didn't enjoy it very much. Yeah. But ⁓ you know, it was just you're hiring people that are really young. You're hiring people that have had a driver's license for a year and you're telling them to drive ambulances and fire trucks. ⁓ and they've never driven they've hardly driven a car. Yeah. ⁓ and then you're saying, We don't know why we're wrecking. Yeah. No, it that's it's the root cause issue. It goes back to the root cause issue. That's exactly it. And so I think that's really it is just ⁓ you know, running a business and I mean running a fire department is essentially running a business, right? Operating a city is operating a budget. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's ⁓ what are the issues that we're having? And then how do we stop the bleeding right now so we don't die? ⁓ but then how do we do the like s the internal surgery later to actually fix the issue? Yeah. Yeah, and I think Unfortunately, a lot of the times departments let that surgery go, you know, and that affects other organs, other areas of the organization. ⁓ until you know, ⁓ I don't know, gangrene, what's a good ⁓ analogy? You know, that that rotten limb falls off or it dies. That limb dies. And that's that's unfortunate when you see that that happen in departments. And and on that same sense, organization, even for business, but for a fire department What do you think is is more dangerous? Do you think moving too quickly or becoming too comfortable with with things? I'm gonna say ⁓ getting comfortable moving too quickly would be the best because when you're just so used to ⁓ here's a problem, here's a fix, here's a problem, here's a fix, here's a problem, here's a if you never actually take the time to slow down and eventually you get to a point where all you're doing is those band aid fixes, ⁓ and the the original band-aids are falling off and you're having to go back and reapply that. ⁓ and there's I mean, there's so many examples I could give for us, ⁓ and I just don't want people to think that I'm bashing Memphis because it is but I think that's every every organization, not even just fire departments. You know, but you have ⁓ you know right now we have general services mechanics who are, you know, trained on basically dump trucks ⁓ or garbage trucks and they do have some fire training, fire truck training, but ⁓ you know, they they may put we're running old equipment, right? Our reserves are as old as I am. Yeah. And ⁓ you know, you're you're going and you're fixing an air air leak, but you're missing the oil leak. ⁓ and so then next week we're in for the oil leak and then you fix that, but you're missing something else. And all those things add up. Well, you never ⁓ while you're fixing spending all your time fixing your reserve equipment, your frontline equipment is never getting fixed because You're fixing the reserve, you know what I mean? So it's just that constant it's a never ending circle of craziness. And that's I think that obviously is you know has to do with the host organization, but there's so many factors from you know, production time for new equipment, ⁓ and just the complexity of probably, you know, new fire engines versus the old stuff. It's right i i think that's a change that we haven't caught up with very well. ⁓ and it's it's taking its toll. Right. And I will say, you know, like as a fireman, we all have our ideas. We sit around the kitchen table and we say, ⁓ well this is the fix. You know, this is the fix. If only they do it that way. Right, yeah. Why don't they just listen to me? ⁓ But the the I mean the honest truth is none of us are ⁓ sitting up there in that seat, you know, looking down on the big picture. ⁓ we don't know what those guys deal with every single day. And ⁓ the the challenge is that they're being, you know, handed a amongst all the problems that they already have to deal with. So of course, yeah. I I understand completely why it's a difficult thing to figure out, but you know, if you don't ever if you don't ever say, Hey, no, I can't do that right now 'cause I've got bigger fish to fry, yeah. ⁓ then you're just gonna keep chasing your Nobody wants nobody wants to to see that side of it though. It's probably it's more fun at the kitchen table. Right, absolutely. ⁓ hundred percent. Whether you're building a company, whether you're you know, you're building a podcast, a rescue team, how important is giving people ownership of what you're building? Super important. ⁓ I mean that's the only way to create buy in, right? ⁓ like I said, it's that's something I had to learn with my wife. ⁓ my wife will forever be the very per first person that I ever hired, if that's what you want to call it. And I've learned so many lessons from that. ⁓ when I wanted my you know, my wife, I've always had the vision of the business and where it's gonna go and what we're gonna do. I mean, she's always been super supportive, but I could see in her face the day that she bought in when she saw the vision too, and it was hey, I I'm so busy. I need your help. I would love it if you could do this for me. And I don't care how you do it. Do it however works for you. You know, and you could just see, you know, she came back and she's Look, look what I did. Here's what I did. You know, here's this is how I'm gonna do this. And this is how I'm I said, ⁓ that is so awesome. Like I'm gr I'm grateful that you did that, you know, and and I mean be authentic about it, you know, because I really did. It took a huge load off my plate. She does most of the production. I'm very rarely in there and if I am, I'm probably in her way and I'm about to get yelled at. But ⁓ as you should. Yeah. But, you know, and she's doing so good at it. ⁓ and it's just, you know, if you can give them their project and don't don't ask ⁓ to do something and then micromanage it. Right. Let them fully take ownership of it. ⁓ and that's gonna create that buy in, whether it's your whether it's your rescue team or your business or even, you know, around the firehouse, whatever it is, hey man, I need That EMS closet over there looks freaking horrendous. You think you could get that organized for me today? ⁓ yeah, for sure. Yeah. So how do you want it set up? Man, it don't matter. Just make it look good, make it make sense. You know? And then later on, you know, as you hear them rustling around in there, just pop your head in it. Hey, you need any help? You good? ⁓ dude, it looks good in here, you know. And and you're gonna have, you know, a happy crew. They might even surprise you. They might come up with some system that blows you away. Yeah. Absolutely. And when they do, give them credit for it. You know, the chief Chief walks by or stops by the firehouse and he's man, that bumper looks good. Yeah. Lil Johnny s ⁓ you know, shined it up earlier and gave it a wax job. He's always doing little Johnny's a good dude. Yeah. Good little dude. He's the man. He's the man. ⁓ do you think do you think firefighters made good entrepreneurs? I think so. ⁓ we're we're awfully creative. ⁓ I don't know, man. I don't know. I wouldn't sit here and say that, you know, a fireman necessarily makes a good entrepreneur. ⁓ I think it's something that I think it's something you either have or you don't. ⁓ because as as I've learned, and I don't even know that I would qualify as entrepreneur by the standards in my head, but like being a person that owns a business isn't necessarily being an entrepreneur. ⁓ you could be a business owner and not be an entrepreneur. ⁓ but a real true entrepreneur is it they're they're so driven, they're willing to do whatever it takes. I mean it's It's sun up to sundown. Don't quit till you're done. ⁓ and it's hard. It's a grind. And, you know, I think there there are probably some firemen and probably some business owners that it's I just want to do this on the side and at the end of the day, I'm gonna collect my little bit of money. It's gonna make ⁓ make my lifestyle a little bit better, and that's it. Yeah. No, I think and I think there is there is a distinction in that. And I think it's not it's not necessarily it's a bad thing. I mean, if that's if that's your little thing you like to do, you know, that That is what it is. But that I I think that entrepreneurial spirit and maybe maybe put it the other way, would an entrepreneur make a good firefighter, I think it's it's that grind. Right. That's exactly it. It's not and you want to you want to master that skill. You want to to be the best you can in that field, like I think yeah, some there's something to that. I think it's ⁓ it's got a lot to do with your just your personality or your character traits. You know, you could take ⁓ you could take Michael Jordan and tell him to run a business and he'd be a great entrepreneur. Yeah. You know, because he's just got the he's got the drive. Exactly. You know, and vice versa. You you I mean, if you take a great fireman who is always the first one to to start working, ⁓ you know, all these things and you say, Hey, you can't be a fireman anymore, you're gonna go run a business. Like he would probably do really well with it. Yes. You know. Yeah. And we it's funny 'cause I I do jujitsu on the side. I always talk to my my buddy, he's a he's a chief now, and ⁓ we always talk about you the grind of jujitsu. And I was like, hey man, he's like, look, he's like, if I ever ran a business, he's like, and some guy came in on his resume, I saw he had a black belt, he's like, I'd hire him immediately. Not because of the black belt, but because of the work that it took to get to that level. That dude never he that dude never quit. Yeah. That dude never quit. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what that's what they say, you know, because I'm in the I'm looking at hiring people, you know, in the next couple of years. And ⁓ I'm asking like everybody Every person I know, every friend I have that's in business in some sort of managerial, you know, position, I'm like, How do you hire people? How do you hire the right people? And they're like, Don't ask ⁓ about work things. Just get to know who they are. Exactly. And if that's somebody, you know, my business mentor, he said, if it's somebody you'd have a beer with at the end of the day, ⁓ and if it's somebody that you would want to hang out with every day, then they're the right person. You know, but you're right. It's it's not about having the black belt, it's about knowing the work that they did to get to it. ⁓ and and that tells you right there that they're willing to do the work. Yeah, and you have to create that same buy in for your business in that person. Right. They have to believe it. Right. Yeah. And that's that's hard. That that's just that's like building that fireman, man. ⁓ that's exactly ⁓ I and I was gonna ask you about that. I was gonna ask you about hiring and your thoughts on that and that that we'll have the we'll come back and see how that and see how that went. Absolutely. And I w I do wish you the best in that 'cause I know that can be that's a big step. Yeah. And that's and that's just another ⁓ example of how, you know, I've only been doing this for six years. ⁓ and I've got a lot of time ahead of me. I've got a lot of things to learn and that's one of those things that I'm like, you know, it's it's a new challenge. And I'm like kind of tiptoeing towards the door going, All right, I hope I do this right. You know. ⁓ And I'm probably gonna mess up. That just is what it is. That's you know exactly. But that'll create something else for sure. Yeah. ⁓ and as we close out, I I I just wanted to ask if there was a firefighter and they're watching this and they do have an idea for a business, a product, a podcast, a a project, but they're waiting until it's ready. You know, what would you tell them? It's never gonna be ready. It never will. ⁓ you know, like I had mentioned, ⁓ one of my big mistakes was just diving in and maybe offering you know, there is a certain amount of planning or thinking that I think you need to do. Of course. ⁓ but don't wait until the time is right necessarily, 'cause the time will never be right. You know there's always an excuse. Absolutely. ⁓ I would say if you've got an idea in your head, run with it. If it's a business, ⁓ start it up. You can I mean you can message me. I've got a few ideas on how to start up and how to not do things correctly. so This is valuable. Yeah. Don't be afraid to mess up too. Yeah. ⁓ you know, like I said, I'm probably gonna hire the wrong person a time or two. ⁓ but that's a lesson learned. And as long as you keep learning from your lessons and as long as you never quit, then you never fail. So ⁓ that's and that's that is sound advice to end on. And we I just wanna say thank you for your time and you know, letting us in behind the scenes and see what it takes to to run a business and you know, and and talking building firefighters and ⁓ that's what we love to talk about here. So Cody, thank you very much for your time. ⁓ man, thank you so much for for having me on and absolutely. And let me share my thoughts. And we will ⁓ we'll we'll circle back. We'll yeah, we'll come back in a couple of years and see see where things are at. I mean I'll I'll probably be talking to the AI agent at that you'll be so busy. This will be an AI Cody and the whole thing. Well hey man, thank you very much and ⁓ for everyone else we'll see you on the rescue lab the next time. Yeah, thank you. As we wrap up. If you found value in today's conversation and want to help us continue bringing these stories, lessons, and training opportunities to the rescue community, consider supporting our mission through the New England Rescue Collaborative Foundation. 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