patrick halloran: Alright, hey, so welcome back to the Rescue Lab. This is the Rescue Lab Recon edition. ⁓ we're sitting here with Charlie Pym from Heli Service USA. And we're gonna talk about their air operations. We're down here North Kingston, Rhode Island, correct? Charlie was nice enough to have me down. I have been pestering you a little bit, I'm sure, but helicopters are really cool. So I I wanted to get down and see what guys do. And the helicopter service in regards to tech rescue, I think this all began when I saw a post, I think I woke up one morning to a post where you guys did some work with the Western Mass Tech team or was it Norfolk? It was ⁓ Norfolk County Tech Team. ⁓ we do it at Plainville Fire Headquarters. One of our flight paramedics works as well for them. ⁓ so he set that up. I I think I was actually at Spratt down in Connecticut and I immediately emailed you and you were kind enough to get back to me and and talk to me for those those past couple weeks. But thanks for having me down here. So we took a little tour of the the operations center here. And it is quite the setup and they just had some helicopters land. So before we jump right into it, I thought we'd just we'd jump people in to just like maybe a quick moment in flight where if there was something here that really stuck in your mind when you were out either inbound or outbound or you're on your way to a a hoisting mission or drop people off, was there something that sticks out in your mind aviation wise that was sort of a very profound moment to you? Yeah, I ⁓ I think air operations in general are always high risk scenario. So we're we're constantly ⁓ assessing for risk and mitigating that risk as much as we can. So that that happens every minute of every flight that we go out on. ⁓ it's obviously a very high stakes environment, flying helicopters, especially in close proximity to wind turbines and and vessels. And then we get into the air ambulance work, landing at tight L Z and ⁓ watching for wires and people in L Z that we're not expecting. So I think every every moment of every flight we're reassessing risk and trying to mitigate that as best as possible. I think at ⁓ an exact moment. ⁓ I've been in some pretty tight L Z ⁓ the other the other day I was flying to a scene call. We were asked to respond to someone who had had fallen and had some pretty significant injuries. And we were coming into the L Z and it it was it wasn't tight, but it presented as a a a pretty confined space LZ. So we we were constantly communicating with the pilot. Myself and my partner who is sitting in the back were talking about the the trees and obstructions. And I think we just we do that on a an every every flight basis we communicate as a team to make sure that we're not gonna put ourselves. And that wasn't here at Helly Service. You're also you serve where else? So I'm also a flight paramedic for UMass Memorial Life flight based out of Worcester and Fitchburg. So we fly yeah two aircraft program. One based at Worcester at the hospital at our university campus and then one b based out of Fitchburg Airport. Awesome. And I I think it's interesting that you bring up the dynamic of you know the crews talking to each other and that risk assessment. And I think in the world of tech rescue and in the fire service, we try and do the same thing. And I know I try and do the same thing with my crew, especially if we're en route to a tech rescue. Obviously not the same, you know, being in a helicopter cabin versus a truck cabin in a sense, but we're still talking about hey, what are we gonna find on scene? How are we gonna react if it's this? And it's hard to get do you have a lot of that information going into either of these scenes about what you're gonna find on the ground? I mean, so medically wise, no, typically not. we're we're always capable to go and care for a patient. So we we do get a little bit of a heads up of what we're going into as far as like the clinical scenario, but that that stuff where you know, we train that all the time. All of our training is centered around medicine, right? So most of the flight is centered around centered around flight safety. So there's a big push for crew resource management and making sure that the pilots are communicating the med crew and the med crew is playing an active role in safety, right? So making sure that we're again we're mitigating risk as much as we can to make sure that we safely get to a patient, we can safely transport a patient to the hospital. So Yeah, absolutely. We we do, I would say, like the exact same thing that you're describing on on the tech rescue side, right? Like we are always discussing what is our LZ gonna look like, where are we gonna take this patient to? How you know, if we're gonna have to leave the L Z, what's the plan to make sure the helicopter is safe? Is the pilot gonna stay with the helicopter? Right. As far as knowing information before we get there, we do we always will communicate with the resource on the ground. So we'll we'll have a radio conversation, ask for an L Z description. Are there any wires? Are there any Trees, ⁓ animals, you know, if the fire trucks parked in an undesired spot, can we move it? So we've And that's that's an important point you bring up, which we'll which we'll get to, and that's working with crews on scene. And whether you've never worked with these people before, it could be a a fire crew on the medical side, somebody that you've never worked with. So it's interesting and important that I think they understand how to operate around the aircraft. And that is definitely something I want to hit on. But let's let's back up and Just tell me a bit about yourself, how you got to where you're at here at Heli Service. Sure. Yeah, so ⁓ again, Charlie, I I work for Heliservice USA here ⁓ down at Kwanzett Airport in North Kingston, Rhode Island. Heliservice USA has been around for just over or just under three years, sorry. See the HEMS program or the search and rescue LIMSAR is what we're kinda calling. It's a limited search and rescue program, has been around for just over a year and a half. We started that based out of a need to provide a a service to the guys and girls that are building these offshore wind farms. So there's one located direct south from Martha's Vineyard, and then two located direct south kind of from the Newport area. And we're contracted to provide that hem's coverage for Vineyard Wind project, which is the one that's south of the vineyard. So we've been standing duty 24 the last about year and a half providing coverage to them. I'm the associate director of EMS operations for that program. So I have a role, you know, I I stand duty working those 24 hour shifts. serving as the the flight paramedic on duty, the SARTEC on duty. And I also do a lot of the administration for the the s the hem specific portion of the program. Okay. And so for Heli Service, what are the types of jobs that you guys are doing right now, day to day with the helicopters? Yeah, so every day almost we're doing ⁓ hoisting turbine technicians down to the turbines. So we have a helicopter that's based out of Martha's Vineyard and ⁓ starting around six o'clock in the morning or so, weather depending, they'll Punch out three or four crews out to the wind turbines. So that's ⁓ what that looks like is at Martha's Vineyard Airport, four guys will show up, they'll get in briefed, they'll get into the helicopter, they'll fly out to their designated turbine, they'll get hoisted down with their equipment. So it's usually four technicians, a couple bags, get dropped off, they'll come back, do that three or four times in the morning, and then at the end of the day, they'll go out and pick those crews up. So they're they're out there for eight to ten hours or so. where their ride to work essentially. And there's no do you guys provide you don't provide EMS during those call during those calls, I'll say. Is it solely for the missions where you have a specific need for a medical Yeah, right. So I'm not going on that that hoist operation flight on on a cool basis. It would be cool. Yeah. I love flying. I always love flying. So it would be cool. But yeah, but we're we're stationed out of Quanzett, so we sit here and if they were to need a a rescue or a medical evacuation we would launch out of here and go to that that turbine. So we can get to Vineyard Wind project in about thirty minutes roughly. So as to where how long would it take a boat to get if there was a medical need, how long would it take? ⁓ so it the boats, if they're not already out in the field, it can take them anywhere from three to four hours. Soon for the Coast Guard as well. Coast Guard has two or has aircraft based out of Cape Cod and they're responsible for a huge portion of ⁓ the eastern seaboard. So Depending on where they are, it could take them hours, it could take them, you know, just a couple minutes if they're out doing a training flight, you know. So that that's the unknown variable that this company that we're contracted with decided is is not acceptable to them, right? And so ultimately decided to put us in in place twenty four seven to provide that coverage. And those those guys you're hollering out there, sprat guys, big, big big broke stuff. So I mean a lot of sprat people that that watch this stuff, a lot of firefighters. Getting into the Sprite World. So you do you ever get to see those guys out there doing work on on top of these turbines? So y yeah, we've I've interfaced with a bunch of them and and had conversations about what a rescue would look like inside one of the towers. And yeah, that's it's certainly not my realm. yes, not yet. Not yet. Yeah. No expert in any of the rope work stuff, but ⁓ we would participate in that rescue and we're ⁓ you know, treating an injured person for sure. So that that the medical part is our role once we get inserted onto a t ⁓ turbine. ⁓ yeah. So we would we would work very closely with those guys. Excellent. We'll get you on the ropes. Yeah. I I believe that. ⁓ so we'll we'll dive into really where this sort of intersects with tech rescue and I know you said you guys are trying to get into more of the tech rescue world. In the the drill that you did with the the regional team, what were you guys doing and how were you interacting with them? Yeah, so we're really just trying to demonstrate our capabilities. ⁓ to the community. So we're the only private hoist capable aircraft in New England ⁓ for rescue operations. So we wanna, you know, that rare, incredibly rare circumstance that comes up where, you know, a hoist rescue capable helicopter is applicable, we want to be available for the community for that. So, you know, the those types of scenarios would be some sort of fall down a cliff or deep into the woods needing extrication for someone who's, you know, critically ill or injured. Th those types of scenarios we wanna be able to provide that service if the need provides it. And me and you have discussed briefly the difference between you, you know, Heli Service and the Heart program, which if anyone doesn't know the Heart program is the state's I guess answer to what you guys do, they're the hoisting capability, the helicopter aquatic rescue team. And we are just discussing that you guys are much more or I guess able to respond quicker is where the heart team kinda has a pretty deep seated flow chart ⁓ and is kind of reliant on the military, which can be tough too. Yeah, ⁓ I you know, those those heart programs are amazing and ⁓ an incredible asset. I think what we have to offer is being here and available twenty four seven. So the you know, the aircraft's here, the medics here on duty, the the hoist operator, all of the components of the crew are already assembled at all times. Right. ⁓ so I think, you know, that that significantly reduces the the shoot time, if you will, to get out to go to one of these emergencies. And do you ever see do you see that as a future? Yeah, absolutely. So I think again on on that rare circumstance now that it makes sense if we got a call. We we need a lot of approval to go do that. And depending on where it is, you know, in the region, it it might make sense, it might not. ⁓ but I think, you know, we would rather be called and have to say no than not be called when we could have done done them. Of course. No, I think that makes sense early on too. We talk about water rescues. I think one of the big things when it comes to that is like, hey, make sure you call the dive team, you know, before you need the dive team. So even just extending a call to you guys and seeing if you're available or what that decision matrix looks like is just a good thing to do. For sure. In the case that you actually can come out and help. Yeah. As far as working with tech rescue teams or fire departments, what does a good ground team look like from the plat the helicopter platform when you guys are coming in? Yeah, I I it's a great question. I think, you know, like you kinda l alluded to the we we don't do these calls a ton, right? The the helicopter is not called for scene calls every day. We're not, you know Landing on the highway ten times a week. But you couldn't your other job. Even then, right? Like th those calls are few and far between where where we need the helicopter and that resource is coming to land in a field or on the highway, right? So nobody has tons and tons of repetition calling for a helicopter. Some some towns more than others, right? Like you know, the towns in southern New Hampshire and southern Vermont that we go to, we go to those guys a lot. But even them might be a once a month occasion, right? So But can you see the difference in interacting with those fire departments? versus ones that you don't typically interact with? Absolutely, yeah. ⁓ and the the good ground crew, right, sets up a an L Z that's restricted to the public. So making sure that we're closing off the appropriate areas. That call that I was talking about the other day, right? We're landing in a parking lot off the road, but even then they shut down the road. Right. So that there's no traffic even close to the helicopter. And that just puts you guys at ease automatically. Yeah, yep, absolutely. Right. There's no rubber necking causing another accident, right? Like we would never want to be the reason for someone else getting injured, right? So keeping the the bigger area closed off than just that hundred by a hundred that we require, right? So making sure that there's there's no possible way that there's a gonna be a car colliding with a a helicopter, but also just another car accident off the side of the road. And so talking about landing and whatnot. ⁓ what are the biggest mistakes you see or potentially see with rescuers working around helicopters? Sure, yeah. So nighttime's really tricky for us, right? We wear night vision goggles which help us see at night obviously, but those can get drowned out by light really, really quickly. So typically we'll flip upper goggles when we're pretty close down to the ground, but coming in, the the bright lights, emergency lights really, really help us find an L Z. Right. ⁓ but once we get close, sometimes those can really drown out our and kill our our night vision, even if we flip up our goggles, right? Like killing that So is there is there a way to communicate with the ground at that point? Or are you guys just sort of are you talking to a third party? How does that final hundred meters look like when you're coming into the ground? Yeah, sometimes we might radio down and say, Hey, can you shut the lights off? But once we s so our our first our high recon we call it, right? Our first orbit and then our low recon coming down closer and looking. We we once we get through those two phases, we'll go into what's called sterile cockpit. And ⁓ any communication right can interfere with the pilot ⁓ trying to to land the helicopter, right? So we want only emergent communications to happen at that point. So obviously if you're ground, if you're L Z command and you see something that's gonna happen, right? We we want you to speak up. Of course. Of course, right? And same for the crew members inside the helicopter. If we're if we're coming in and we see wires or something, right, we We're always empowered to speak up and and say something, but you know, we don't wanna be having a chat ⁓ or getting patient information when we're on our final approach. Right. So it's funny, you mentioned the the sterile cockpit. So is it kind of good for you to have a sterile ground as well at the same point? Everyone's just sort of in the zone waiting for that that helicopter to touch down at that point. Yeah, absolutely. So ⁓ we do brief that in L Z classes, right? Like the only emergence emergent communication should be happening when we're on our final approach. And is there What's the biggest communications breakdown between the ground and the air? Either en route or once you're on the ground? I would say location is probably the biggest one. Right. So it's not uncommon for us to get a change in landing zone while we're in route to a call. So that's fine. ⁓ but just making sure we know because ⁓ it's it's sometimes can be really hard to see things from, you know, two thousand feet. So do you speak from experience where you've shown up at a scene and there's nobody there? We won't land unless we have positive contact with someone on the ground. So we might be kind of looking at the parking lot that they were supposed to be in and be like, huh. But ultimately like we don't just go set set ourselves down in the middle of nowhere. We can, but ⁓ we really want to have positive contact with with the ground crew. No, that makes sense. ⁓ and you kind of you I think you kinda touched on it, but when you are inbound and you mentioned closing the roads down, but what does a clean a clean scene look like where you guys, the pilot sort of everyone's like, man, this is locked in. Like this is good. I mean you mentioned the the road, but what other indicators you're looking for. So as a medical crew member, I like a parking lot. So we we get landed in a lot of fields, right? ⁓ but everybody knows that dragging a stretcher across a field is a lot more difficult. Or they will. Or they will, right? Is a lot more difficult than dragging up ⁓ a stretcher across a parking lot. So especially when we're doing some ⁓ pretty intense patient care, right? Intubating someone, giving them blood, that all just adds risk and adds equipment to the the scenario, right? So If we can if we can wheel someone across a nice paved parking lot, that's my vote all day long. Yeah. Being far away from obstructions, right? So even though you have that hundred by a hundred, that's our minimum. We would love for it to be bigger than that, right? So keep especially high tension wires are helicopter killers. Yeah. ⁓ so keeping us anywhere away from those is is great. And so going back to either heliservice or working with the the med flight there, what are the true limitations of the aircraft, especially here, I mean on the water. you know, weather must roll in and out, but if you guys get called out, what's sort of the go no go indicator of where you guys are are looking at? Sure. So there's a you know saying in in hem the hems world, four to go, ⁓ one to say no, right? So or all of your crew to go and one person can raise their hand and say, hey, we're not going on this. Yeah. And that's really important. Kind of comes back to that crew resource management mentality, right? Of everybody's gotta be a hundred percent dialed in and ready to go do this mission. Otherwise ⁓ we can have a serious mishap and and potentially kill someone. And so I'm sorry, has that have you been a part of that situation where you guys are like amped up, ready to go and it's like, hey, we're scrubbing this. Yeah, ⁓ absolutely. We've even I've even lifted for flights and turned around halfway there due to weather, right? So that you know, that we always want to get to the patient. Right. There, you know, there's no one in this job who's who's in it to not go and do patient care and help someone, right? So there's this intrinsic pressure to go and help someone. But when we can't do it, there's other ways for us to get to that patient, right? We can go by ground. Well, in the lifelike world, obviously out here, it'd be by boat. But yes. We will we wouldn't participate in that, but ultimately there's another re there's another means for rescue. That's I mean that's really hard to like you said, everybody wants to go, but being that one person you'd be like, hey, this is just something is not right, like that takes a lot of Not courage, but it takes a lot of ⁓ I don't know, guts to just speak up. I know the cre the crew resource management is huge in aviation and that's people have to take that seriously. Is there ever any pushback to that? Or is everyone just sort of like takes a you know, takes a breath and is like, Okay, you're right. Yeah, I I would say that no, there's not pushback to that, right? Like it you have to build good culture surrounding that to say like, hey, you know, w our chief pilot says all the time, like, I pay you to say no. Yeah. Don't pay you to say yes, right? I I pay you the big bucks for you to make that decision that this is not a safe flight to go on. Yeah. Smart. Yeah. It's like you said, it's tough. It's tough to make that decision and be the guy that raises their hand and says, Hey guys, like we shouldn't be doing this, but yeah, someone gotta do it No, it's incredibly important. And I think that that relates to back to like in the cab of the fire truck. Even the newer guys, like I on a t on the way to a tech rescue or at a tech rescue, you might see something, but they might see something else totally or just a simpler way to get it done. And just that we we sort of call it think tanking. Yeah. And just say, hey, if I'm not if I'm not saying it or not, I don't see it, like I need you to help me out. We're working together here. And that that's what I like about the tech rescue sort of side of the fire service. It's it's not a rank thing anymore. It's not even in the aviation thing, you got the pilots and and whatnot, but it's everybody working together for that common goal. And everybody is allowed to speak up and and put their two cents in. I mean you might yell at the younger guy in the fire in the fire truck. That happens, but you know, that's ⁓ that all washes out. So you're called out now, you guys you can either land on one of the support ships out there, but let's talk through the hoisting side because obviously that's really cool. Yeah. ⁓ and everybody wants to do that. Yeah. What are the skills that go into hoisting and how do you guys train for that and and how does that look? Sure. ⁓ so yeah, like you said, we can either go out for two types of mission sets as far as the SARC. side is concerned so we can do a heli deck landing or a hoist rescue. So the the heli deck landings like you said just kind of playing we're coming in landing on the heli deck. We'll send the medic inside. It's like an ambulance call going into someone's house. Right. ⁓ there are a lot assists. No lift assists. We don't do lift assists. Okay. There's a lot of reasons why we can't land on a heli deck. So the vote the boats can be out there and ⁓ due to the swell, right? If there's if there's too much movement on the vessel, it'll give us what's called a red deck, which means we can't land. Who makes that call? ⁓ so the the boat. ⁓ they have sea state limitations. Okay. And they well well the pilot can always make that call, right? If the pilot sees something they don't like, they can say, Hey, I'm not gonna land there. But the vessel will tell us, Hey, we have ⁓ a swell of one point two meters, right? That may or may not be out of limits for that vessel. That's all determined by the size of the boat and the width and And is that could you be like, Hey we're gonna you the the pilot's like, We're inbound, we're gonna land, we're gonna But now hey, this has become a hoisting mission. Does it work like that? Yeah, absolutely. So we'll always go out to a mission ready to do either. Even if they tell us the the deck's available, it's all good, we're we're good to go, we're set, ready for you. Something could change on the way out there. And that has happened on training missions that we've done. We were preparing to land on the deck and they said, Hey, you can't land anymore. And then we switched transition into a hoist. That's great. ⁓ so yeah, the like you said, the heli decks would be ⁓ I wouldn't say they're easier. They're they have their own problem set, right? Landing on a a boat in the middle of the ocean is not easy by any means. ⁓ but hoisting adds a whole nother dynamic of of risk. So we we we train for that a lot more. We do a ton of of hoist training. And yeah, like you said, the what that looks like is we'll fly a crew of four, two pilots up front and then a hoist operator and the the flight paramedics are technician in the back. And on the way out we'll do a briefing. of what this is gonna look like. So that usually involves what the vessel looks like or the turbine if it if we're going there, where we're gonna hoist to, what the weather's like, what the sea state is like, that plays a factor for hoisting as well, obviously. Right. Whether or not the vessel is ⁓ on what's called dynamic positioning or underway. Yep. ⁓ so dynamic positioning, they have ⁓ fancy motors and computer systems that basically these boats can just sit still and not move at all. And that can be good and bad for hoisting. So helicopters like wind. So we want a little bit of forward wind speed to be in a good hoisting profile. And we'll get out there, set up in our rest position after doing our high recon and lower recon, just like in the life light world. Assess where we're going to hoist to, set up in our rest position. And from there, the hoist operator will do what's called take the con. And basically they're in charge of the aircraft at that point. So they're talking to the pilot saying, hey, move right forward and five. And they're going to con them in close to where we're going to hoist to. And I'll be on the the hook at that point outside the cabin. And as we get close, he'll start lowering me down as we're kind of moving into position. And then I'll get on deck. And so what is that what does that take on your end once you're on the line? I mean, what first of all, what's going on to your mind? I mean, I know you're still thinking about getting down to the patient, but now you have a whole other complex event happening. Sure. Yeah. ⁓ I mean, sometimes we're referred to as the the dope on the rope. Yeah. ⁓ so you know the The getting hoisted part is ⁓ obviously risky. Right. ⁓ there's a lot of risk there, but it's you know, we're we like you said, we got a lot to think about about our positioning, our body positioning, so we're not creating a spin. The where we're gonna land on the deck, they can be slippery, wet, right? ⁓ there's a lot of tooling and ropes, cargo, right? So looking for anything that's loose blowing around. And what so you walked through sort of the SAR gear side before we we sat down here. What are you bringing down with you to go to the patient? Obviously, medical stuff, but you bring any sort of technical rope gear or or what are you exactly bringing down? Yeah, so ⁓ we have ⁓ an ambulatory hoisting system and a littered hoisting system that we can use. We use the CMC Helitec bag and the air rescue systems air rescue vest for those two devices. So depending on on what's going on, if we get enough information, we may deploy immediately with some medical equipment. And one of those rescue devices. Right. ⁓ or if we're limited information, we might go down with just our medical gear, evaluate the patient, and then we ⁓ we can call up to our hoist operator and say, hey, send me down the helitack bag. And they can hoist that down to us, we'll set it up, put our patient inside. And so once you're actually down, does that hoist go back up and then wait for you to to call for the patient extract? Yeah, absolutely. So we want that cable to be close to the boat for as least amount of time as possible. So that that cable gets snagged, right? Yeah. Bad things can happen. So as soon as I disconnect, he's gonna hook hook pull the hook the hook back up, move back into the rest. And from there, they will either stay in kind of like a rest position or they'll just go into a kind of a low orbit around the vessel depending on how much time. Ultimately sitting in a hover burns a lot of gas. And if they do just a like a little slow cruise around the boat, they can conserve fuel a little bit. Okay. The other option is Going and landing on one of the the platforms out there. So there's there's a a stationary platform out in the wind park that they can go just park on for a couple minutes or more. Could that ever be part of the rescue operation? Like, hey, we're gonna meet you at the the platform or Yeah, it could. ⁓ we've we've definitely talked about that. There are guys that are out there sometimes, so they could have a medical event as well. Yeah. ⁓ so that's just another place that we could go. The boats can kind of push up to it and transfer an injured person on to the the platform as well. So it all it all depends on on the scenario, right? ⁓ that ultimately takes time. So if we can just pull pluck them off the boat, that might be more efficient. Yeah, you're right there. ⁓ so between the two services that you work for, en route to medical call, is there a big difference between the life light versus the helice service? I mean, obviously you're thinking about, you know, the ocean side and whatnot. What are the some of the other key differences that you have to think about? Yeah, for sure. I mean, on the life slight lifelite side, we're critical care program, right? So we we have extra scope of practice. We're talking a ton about medications that we're going to give the patient. Some of our most complex calls that we do are interfacility transports, right? And those patients can be incredibly sick on mechanical ventilators, multiple infusions, blood products, all sorts of stuff, right? So that's it's very clinically focused. The heliceervice side, we're an ALS Paramedic level Rhode Island licensed ambulance service, but we're not critical care. So we're really a flying ambulance. Right. So we're we're here on the 911 side, essentially. Right. So you're you're having those conversations about the clinical care or mostly in your head. Our our hoist operator is also an EMT. So we're essentially a PB ambulance, right? So as far as the medical s side is concerned, the the paramedic has a ton of responsibility. Yes. That Hoist operator's primary responsibility is air crewman. So he's responsible for safety of flight and the hoisting operations. And then once we get the patient inside the cabin, we'll also assist us in patient care. So going back to the I guess sort of the the differing ⁓ missions that you're looking to take on, how do you see working in an urban environment, not even an urban environment, but more even like the woods, someone's lost or someone's fallen down a ⁓ cliff face? Is the hoisting operation the same or Does it get a little bit more technical or are there any of the skills that you guys would need to work on to make that happen? Yeah, ⁓ I mean, land-based hoisting is different than marine-based hoisting, right? So out there in the ocean, there's a lot less obstacles. Right. So when we get start doing tree work or confined space hoisting, there's a lot more technical flight positioning, I guess. Right. Helicopter positioning that is involved. So yeah, we we absolutely would go and train that. really get into practicing making sure our skills are dialed. A lot of our hoist operators have military experience, so they they have done some of that stuff. Some of our Sartechs also have that experience, but it's something that we don't train a ton for right now because we don't we're not tasked with doing it right now. Right. Is that I know you're you want to is there any forward positioning training that you can get? Especially on I mean, I know we've discussed working tech rope. Is that something personal that you want to do or do you see that as a skill that will be needed in the future. Yeah, absolutely. See that as a a skill that's needed. I think we're we're we're always trying to push our training to the next level, right? And and find the next thing that we can get good at. So absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, on both sides. Yeah, for sure. So so personally, what do you like about the tent rope side? I I mean I think there's a lot of of parallels between the hoisting side, right? So we we just put a guy on to our team from the New Hampshire Air National Guard and they just started doing like cliff wall hoist picks. So they're integrating rope rescue into their hoisting operations. So they'll go down with with ropes and and clip into the rock face while still attached to the helicopter. ⁓ man. ⁓ and then, you know, disconnect, send the hook away, do their you know, now they're tethered to the wall, secure their patient, get them ready for for hoisting, bring the hook back in, hook in, take the load and then disconnect from the wall, right? So that's like it's really, really technical. There's a lot going on. A lot in that moment. I mean, yeah. And is that would that same person be medically trained as well? Or at that point is it just sort of like a a rope rescue technician that is trying to get that party back to the helicopter? Yeah. I I think in our world they would be medically trained, right? We would just train our paramedics to do that stuff. But Ultimately, that changes more into the rescue side than the medical side, right? I think we're prioritizing the recovery of that patient to the aircraft so that we can start treating. So there's a chance I could work with you guys. So you're saying there's a chance. As long as there's chance. So going back to you know, you're inbound to a call, it's nighttime, you know, even on the the life flight side, like it's it's a high priority call, everyone's amped up. You can tell the ground crew's amped up. Are you focused? Like, what is going through your mind? Those those final you know couple hundred meters coming in. We talked about what the scene looks like, but like what are you looking at personally and what's your your focus and mind state look like? Sure. Yeah. ⁓ I mean we're yeah, hyper focused, right? Looking. We're we're essentially doing 360 scan at all points at all times, right? So on the life light side, we'll fly our pilot on the right seat and then one of the crew members in the left seat up front, and then one of the crew members in the back as well. And our job as medical crew members is to just be a second and a third set of eyes for our pilot. Yeah. ⁓ so we're constantly scanning, looking in every direction, making sure that there's no obstructions, no hazards, and then taking care of that that communication with the ground crew as well. So we'll be on the radio talking to the the fire department that's securing our LC. And is there any time that sticks out in your mind, like any close calls that you obviously maybe made it through but you look back and like wow that could have been bad. Yeah. I haven't had any wave off scenarios to this point, which is fortunate. But we definitely we have those scenarios, right? Where a a crew member or a ground personnel will call like a go around essentially, right? Or the the vernacular that we'd want everybody to use is stop, stop, stop. Okay. ⁓ and making sure that's loud and assertive, coming from any any person in the area, right? Obviously that's be a radio if you're if you're talking to a loud helicopter, but Yeah, if if we hear that, the pilot's gonna arrest their descent immediately, do a go-around, and ask questions later, right? We're gonna take that as, hey, you're about to hit something and ball up the helicopter. Have you ever worked with anyone in or close that has experienced something like that? And a headlist towel and a lesson from that? I mean, we've we've been coming I I I have one where we didn't have to call a stop and we didn't have to do a go-around, but essentially we're coming into a An LZ that was on a a slope and we recognized as we were kind of just just about to touch the ground that this slope was gonna put us in a dangerous situation, right? So we want level ground ideally, and then what we did there was we had to slide, but when we started sliding, you know, we're getting closer to the house that we're landing next to, or it was a barn in a field, and then there were some pretty, pretty nearly invisible wires that were coming off a very small pole that. know, wouldn't have been a factor if we were landing in our initial landing zone, but right we we slid over and ultimately that was one where we're we're getting really close. Yeah. So it's all it's just about constant reassessment ⁓ of risk, right? And we're always we're always talking to each other. Hey, yep, we're getting close, like let's slide back to the left a little bit. Yeah. No, staying in constant communication. That makes sense. What's the one lesson that people can only learn the hard way in aviation? Think weather is probably a big one, right? ⁓ trying to push weather has gotten people killed. So you know, you go up on your first iffy weather day and you realize how quickly you can get caught in some some bad stuff. And we never we never want that to happen. ⁓ so we we take a really hard look at weather every time we go for a flight. Yeah, how does that work as far as do you guys who the pilots brief the weather? Yeah, I'm actually a meteorologist as well. Interesting. No, I'm just I'm just having you in the local news. I wanna We get ⁓ some intro to weather theory, ⁓ aviation weather theory, and we learn how to read kind of the aviation weather side of of what weather is. Does all does all the crew do that? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. So medical crew members go through that training and just so we have at least an awareness. The pilot's knowledge about weather is much, much more fast and they you know, that's a a lot of what training to become a pilot involves is is understanding the weather and how it affects the aircraft. So For us, it's more about confirming what the pilot's telling us, right? So, like, hey, he says, Hey, it's good to go. We can go fly. And then I look at my phone and I say, Hey man, did you see this sell out here that looks like it might be coming our way? Yeah. He says, ⁓ no, good call. Like I I missed that. Yeah. ⁓ it doesn't happen. But in theory In theory, it's cool. Yeah, in theory, that's what what we're there for is just to kind of spot check ⁓ and make sure that, hey, everyone's on the same page. We're we're all in agreement that the weather's good to go do this flight. Yeah. Back to the fire department side, what What do wish every fire department understood about helicopter operations? Yeah, ⁓ this one comes up a lot, right? Just because the weather's good where you are doesn't mean the weather's good where we are or in between where we are. Right. ⁓ and then the other factor is we have to also get to a hospital. So Fitchburg's a good example, right? Fitchburg might be really good weather. The town that's requesting us might be really good weather, but the hospital socked in. So we can't just go pick up a patient and you know, hang out with them forever. We we ultimately have to have a destination as well. So So what happens in that scenario? We can go by ground. So we'll have a lot of crews come and ⁓ pick us up from the airport, drive us into the hospital. Okay. We'll punch out in a an S C V or a an ambulance and come meet up with crews. So for scene calls, you know, I think there is, you know, past dogma or past, you know, historical bad experiences with the helicopters. Yeah. I would say Always call us, just like we talked about earlier, right? Activate us early, ⁓ cancel us often if you don't need us. But you know, if we say, Hey, we're we're grounded, we can't fly, ask us if we can come by ground. Yeah. ⁓ we're we're more than happy our program at UMass is more than happy to do that. That's interesting. Yeah. ⁓ I would have known that. You know, we've we've saved a lot of lives by coming out by ground ambulance and and helping crews. Especially entrapments, right? Like if you're stuck on the side of the highway, we have blood, we have ⁓ medications to paralyze people. Like we we really want to come and be a part of that call to help help you guys. and that just sparked something you said. ⁓ you're taking the the med spec course? Yeah. Up at the Mass Towns force? Yeah. So I'll be doing that in two weeks actually coming up. That's awesome. I I hope I see you up there. I'll I'll play a good victim for you if I have to. If if an apartment wants to train with an aircraft, where should they start? Yeah. ⁓ so two two different realms, right? Heliservice world, we are we're getting into the PR stuff. We're gonna try and start coming up to see some fire departments and doing some training. That ⁓ you know, I'd encourage you to reach out to you and you can pass along contact information to me. I heard there's rumor that you guys might be coming to the rescue lab too. Yeah, we're gonna be at the rescue lab doing a demo ⁓ May eighth. So we're super excited for that. Weather permitting, of course. Of course. But ⁓ Fingers crossed, it's gonna be a great day. Yes. This is gonna be an awesome day. The weather's gonna be great. Yeah. Yeah. So that'll be a good opportunity to see our capabilities. Right. ⁓ we've got some cool stuff planned for for that. Yeah, we're looking forward to that. Yeah. ⁓ but no, and that makes sense. Passing just stuff like this, just getting to know, you know, if somebody doesn't know about Heli Service or even working with Life Light, I think these are great avenues to to approach that and and people start asking those questions. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Again, we'd rather have the conversation than just, you know, start that and talk about it and see if we can come and do something with you guys. But right now we're you know, we're restricted southern Massachusetts and Rhode Island, ⁓ essentially, but yeah, who knows? Who knows what we're Yeah, the future is ⁓ wide open. Yeah, for sure. ⁓ on the life light side, yes. ⁓ we you can reach out to to us at Life Light, ⁓ UMass Life Light and we'll come do an L Z class any day of the week. That's that so I think that leads into The question here is what is one thing a fire department could do tomorrow that would make them safer around aircraft? And it sounds like something as simple as that. Yeah. We do a ton of L Z classes, especially in the the spring, summer, fall. We fly out to fire departments almost ⁓ you know, twice, three times a week just to come land the helicopter, show it show you what our capabilities are, talk about l Z safety. We have a a PowerPoint that's approved for Massachusetts Con ed, ⁓ so we can get you some hours for your research. And I think those classes are probably the the best way to get safer out of aircraft is exposure, right? So are those free classes for fire departments? Absolutely. ⁓ awesome. ⁓ yeah. So we'll yeah. ⁓ EMS coordinators can reach out to our program and we'll come and do some LZ stuff with you. That's good. That's a good takeaway. Yeah for sure. Where is helicopter rescue heading? Good question. What is the future of helicopter rescue? Yeah, I I think, you know, in in our region in New England, we we don't have a lot of assets. There's the Coast Guard and the Army National Guards that support helicopter rescue operations. I mean, Forest Service also has a long line program. So you know, there's a couple of programs out there in this region, but for the most part, little New Hampshire Air National Guard does have a comprehensive medical program, but other than that, limited medical resources and spin up time can be difficult for some of those programs. Government funding too, especially on the Either military side or so Coast Guard. Yep, Coast Guard. You know, th that that's always at play as well for sure. You know, I I hope that one day we can be a resource that's available to the the region to say, Hey, we know we got someone in a really bad spot and we need we need someone to come pick ⁓ up. Hopefully that can be us. Yeah. Bring that high level paramedic level care to the patient. Hopefully that can be us. Yeah, for sure. I'll be on I'll be on the helicopter with you. Does the drones play in anywhere? Do you see a future Where drones sort of you know, I you see videos online that they're dropping first aid kits or do you ever see a parallel or where do they fit in? Yeah, I you know, I think autonomous or semi autonomous flight is is absolutely gonna play play a part in this ⁓ this realm. I have seen videos of of larger drones doing rescues. So yeah. ⁓ what that looks like in the future, who knows, right? I I think they're gonna get more powerful, bigger, more capable as time goes on. What I can say is having two pilots sitting up front in the cabin making decisions in real time is invaluable. So those guys are are what will save our lives if something goes wrong. The drones are great when everything's going great. Yeah. ⁓ but putting ⁓ I think we're a ways away from putting a human on the end of a a drone to to get hoisted around. And what about and we just had a a very brief discussion about the autonomous pilot sort of program. Do you see and we talked about no, you know, you guys run just single pilot in the cockpit. Is there a future where it's a single pilot and sort of like an autonomous pilot paired together? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. There's a company down here that's doing a lot of work on that. And I think they're, you know, making good headway. I think having an AI or a an autonomous assistant to help offload workload could be incredibly valuable. Even if it is dual pilot still having something in the background to kind of prompt you to make decisions or remind you of something that might be going on. Yeah, so it's almost like that extra set of eyes in the cockpit. Mm-hmm. Unless it's trying to mess with you. Yeah. Then you gotta watch out for that for sure. So yeah, it'll be interesting. If the if the company next door comes knocking and wants to ⁓ wants to test out some of their stuff. Yeah. And you feel good about that? I'm I'm always I'm always willing to try something, right? Like especially the new technology stuff that excites me. I think there's there's a lot of value in it. But I don't know about going flying with a a new robot yet. Yeah. See. That I think we're having enough problems with the Waymo's in ⁓ you know Metro Boston. Yeah. So we'll see what happens on that road. We'll see where we go. Before we get into the the rapid fire questions out in the ⁓ the bay, ⁓ what is the biggest takeaway for you working here? Like what have you experienced that's really just you know opened your eyes up and makes you excited for you know what's to come for Heli Service? Yeah. I think one of the coolest things is like it takes a village, right? And ⁓ like the fire department mentality absolutely aligns with that. And here it's you know, there's the flight crew, right? And it's two pilots, a hoist operator, a SART. That's what's fine. But behind that is, you know, a whole a massive team of of mechanics and dispatchers and admin staff that make this program possible. So this ⁓ this base specifically has a ton of community and like We'll go next door and see our mechanics harder work, ripping apart our aircraft, right, and sewing them back together, so to speak. But that that stuff keeps us fine, keeps us alive at the end of the day, right? So it's it's super important. And those guys work really, really hard to to keep us in that's an awesome shape. Well, Charlie, I appreciate it. Yeah. We're gonna switch over. ⁓ and I'm gonna hit you with the real hard questions now. Sounds good. The one liners. So we'll go over there and ⁓ we'll see you over there. All so we're back. We're back here in the maintenance bay. ⁓ and as you mentioned. This aircraft is going through some pretty in-depth checks. Yeah. ⁓ so this is one of our Leonardo AW 169s, twin aircraft or twin engine aircraft. ⁓ and these guys are doing a a massive inspection overhaul on it. Tearing it out tearing it down to pretty much the frame. They had the head and the blades off a couple days ago and and they put it back together after inspecting all the components, making sure it's it's up to snuff. You said there's three aircraft total here. Three soon to be four within the next couple of weeks. We'll based out of between Kwanzit and Virginia. Yeah. And they ever switch back and forth? Yep. Absolutely. So we'll cycle ⁓ to preserve hours and ⁓ make sure that maintenance is getting kept up with. Yeah. ⁓ all right, so rapid fire questions. I'm gonna throw ⁓ at you. Sounds good. ⁓ got a helicopter coming, so we gotta go. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna actually get it before this helicopter gets in. Biggest myth about helicopter rescues. Yeah, ⁓ I mean That they happen quickly, I think probably, right? So you call a helicopter, you expect it to show up. It's it's gonna take a while. There's a lot of logistics and ⁓ safety is our biggest concern, so we gotta make sure we're safe. That's fair. The most dangerous assumption ground teams make that once a helicopter's on the ground that it's safe. ⁓ we are, you know they are intrinsically wanna cut people's heads off with those blades spinning. So they don't care. Yeah. The hardest environment to fly in. Low light, bad weather. Nighttime. ⁓ dusk and dawn can be really, really sketchy with the sun kinda at the horizon. Yeah. But nighttime we have night vision goggles, so it you know we ha we are aided, but yeah, absolutely increases risk. Most underrated skill in aviation. Communication. Nice. Just like marriage. Yeah. ⁓ word to describe your job. Amazing. Yeah. It I mean just sitting here, it is pretty amazing. Yeah. ⁓ that's for sure. And just before this helicopter lands, if every technical rescuer listening could take one thing from your experience, what should it be? Call for us early. ⁓ we're happy to come out and not be needed. The last thing we want is you guys to to get a patient out of a bad spot and be like, man, I wish I'd I called a helicopter because this guy's real sick. That's a that's a fair moment. ⁓ it's just about to come in. I I just want to take a minute to say thank you to Charlie. Yeah, for sure. ⁓ thank you to Heli Service. It it's been an awesome time out. And I look forward to the day that I am hanging off the rock face with you guys. And And we're rescuing someone. Hell yeah. But that's our that's our bird coming in. That's our bird coming We're gonna go jump on. ⁓ I wanna say thank you for being on the rescue lab, Charlie. Again, this is the recon edition. We're out in the field and we're gonna let Charlie go do his thing. Yeah, and we'll see you at the ⁓ the event. That's right, we'll see you at Rescue Lab. Heli Service is gonna be there. Here they come.